View Full Version : Owners in the West beware!!
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 08:51
The current asking prices for rental i listed in ptyguru is not a fact? Rental dropping is not a fact? Oversupply of rental units is not a fact? You are always relying on unsubstantial past data n refusing to accept what you see now. Go n check out those links in my earlier posts n call the agents to see if those two bedders can be rented for $2900 n remember to brace yourself for the shock. Even if the two bedroom owners at Caspian rent for $2500, they are making more than 5% in rental yield.
Please learn to do your own research on facts rather than relying on story telling to smoke your way around this forum.
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=caspian
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=the-lakefront-residences
Dont waste your time trying to go against the force of logic, it never work.
The current asking prices for rental i listed in ptyguru is not a fact? Rental dropping is not a fact? Oversupply of rental units is not a fact? You are always relying on unsubstantial past data n refusing to accept what you see now. Go n check out those links in my earlier posts n call the agents to see if those two bedders can be rented for $2900 n remember to brace yourself for the shock. Even if the two bedroom owners at Caspian rent for $2500, they are making more than 5% in rental yield.
Advertisement on property website is never a good indicator to read the market nor does it tell you the complete picture. However its certainly a good place for trolls to cherry pick data.
a) There are always double posting for same units hence give you the false sense of supply (FACTS)
b) There are always dummy and "expired" posting (FACTS)
c) There are always good and bad facing in any development. In the case of Caspian, if its facing MRT track, obviously rent will be lower, but rental yield might not because they have bought it cheaper (FACTS)
So please stop trying to tell us that your CHERRY PICK propertyguru data are reliable while data on ACTUAL TRANSACTION are not.
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 09:52
You mean you haven't called those agents or too scared to call? Lol....
Since you own a minnie mouse unit at J gateway it will do you a lot of good to know what is happening on the ground instead of relying on past data.
Advertisement on property website is never a good indicator to read the market nor does it tell you the complete picture. However its certainly a good place for trolls to cherry pick data.
a) There are always double posting for same units hence give you the false sense of supply (FACTS)
b) There are always dummy and "expired" posting (FACTS)
c) There are always good and bad facing in any development. In the case of Caspian, if its facing MRT track, obviously rent will be lower, but rental yield might not because they have bought it cheaper (FACTS)
So please stop trying to tell us that your CHERRY PICK propertyguru data are reliable while data on ACTUAL TRANSACTION are not.
You mean you haven't called those agents or too scared to call? Lol....
Since you own a minnie mouse unit at J gateway it will do you a lot of good to know what is happening on the ground instead of relying on past data.
I can see that you are starting to talk nonsense and making baseless claims and assumptions
Very typical for someone who tries to go against the force of logic.
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 11:02
Past does not equal present and present is closer to the future than the past so you should be looking at present n not past to determine the future. Who is the one going against logic? lol...carrotheads will always be carrotheads :tongue4:
I can see that you are starting to talk nonsense and making baseless claims and assumptions
Very typical for someone who tries to go against the force of logic.
Past does not equal present and present is closer to the future than the past so you should be looking at present n not past to determine the future. Who is the one going against logic? lol...carrotheads will always be carrotheads :tongue4:
Please go start a new thread to talk about using propertyguru ads to make investment decision.
I am sure you will get plenty of following.
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 13:38
You mean your tenants in future will go squarefoot.com.sg n select the highest rental to pay landlords n ignore the asking prices of advertisers in ptyguru? If landlords are asking $2k, it would be crazy for tenants to tell landlords they want to pay higher based on some old data right? You seem to lack simple common sense. And btw I really don't know what investment decision you referring to coz buying a minnie mouse unitat j gateway was never really considered sn investment to many in this forum
Please go start a new thread to talk about using propertyguru ads to make investment decision.
I am sure you will get plenty of following.
You mean your tenants in future will go squarefoot.com.sg n select the highest rental to pay landlords n ignore the asking prices of advertisers in ptyguru? If landlords are asking $2k, it would be crazy for tenants to tell landlords they want to pay higher based on some old data right? You seem to lack simple common sense. And btw I really don't know what investment decision you referring to coz buying a minnie mouse unitat j gateway was never really considered sn investment to many in this forum
I have already told you to start a new thread about using propertyguru ads to make property investment decisions.
So please stop corrupting this thread with all nonsensical twisted childish argument.
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 17:41
You obviously can't handle the truth n trying to squirm away from the reality of falling rental. Nevermind we know that carrotheads are always stubborn in character.
I have already told you to start a new thread about using propertyguru ads to make property investment decisions.
So please stop corrupting this thread with all nonsensical twisted childish argument.
You obviously can't handle the truth n trying to squirm away from the reality of falling rental. Nevermind we know that carrotheads are always stubborn in character.
Your nonsensical interpretation of cherry pick property guru advertisement is not truth. It's a fairytale. I bet that before j gateway top you will retire from this forum account to set up a new account to continue trolling nonsense again.
Not too long ago a certain troll was also trolling around in caspian thread and then was forced to retired to avoid embarrassment. Perhaps you both know each other
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 18:16
You mean those owners asking $3100 for two bedders in caspian not the truth? Why would these agents want to risk their licence for false advertising and why would the owners be asking something that is false? This clearly illustrates what happens when someone is in denial.
Your nonsensical interpretation of cherry pick property guru advertisement is not truth. It's a fairytale. I bet that before j gateway top you will retire from this forum account to set up a new account to continue trolling nonsense again.
Not too long ago a certain troll was also trolling around in caspian thread and then was forced to retired to avoid embarrassment. Perhaps you both know each other
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 18:25
You mean those owners asking $3100 for two bedders in caspian not the truth? Why would these agents want to risk their licence for false advertising and why would the owners be asking something that is false? This clearly illustrates what happens when someone is in denial.
Your nonsensical interpretation of cherry pick property guru advertisement is not truth. It's a fairytale. I bet that before j gateway top you will retire from this forum account to set up a new account to continue trolling nonsense again.
Not too long ago a certain troll was also trolling around in caspian thread and then was forced to retired to avoid embarrassment. Perhaps you both know each other
You mean those owners asking $3100 for two bedders in caspian not the truth? Why would these agents want to risk their licence for false advertising and why would the owners be asking something that is false? This clearly illustrates what happens when someone is in denial.
No, what I do mean is that people like you should not be in the property forum.
a) You say that one 2bedder owner asking for $3100. What exactly is the problem with $3100? Do you know what is the facing on this unit and what is the owner psf cost?
b) According to URA transaction, one 1 bedder was rented out for $3000, one 2 bedder was rent out for $4000 and 3 bedder for $5,000 in July 2014.
So what does that tell you?
c) According to squarefoot.com.sg the average rental yield of Caspian is 3.8%. and one MM in July 2014 top the rent yield chart of 6.7%.
So what does that tell you?
Please stop trolling around this thread with your nonsensical childish no head no tail argument.
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 20:36
When i say falling rental, it is in the present tense, not past tense so you obviously don't know the difference. You are wallowing in your caspian dream but too bad you missed the boat by many years. By the time j gateway TOP, the rental market n ocr pty px would have corrected by a huge margin and you can continue holding on to your old data n talk up jld in this forum all you want but it aint gonna save your investment.
No, what I do mean is that people like you should not be in the property forum.
a) You say that one 2bedder owner asking for $3100. What exactly is the problem with $3100? Do you know what is the facing on this unit and what is the owner psf cost?
b) According to URA transaction, one 1 bedder was rented out for $3000, one 2 bedder was rent out for $4000 and 3 bedder for $5,000 in July 2014.
So what does that tell you?
c) According to squarefoot.com.sg the average rental yield of Caspian is 3.8%. and one MM in July 2014 top the rent yield chart of 6.7%.
So what does that tell you?
Please stop trolling around this thread with your nonsensical childish no head no tail argument.
When i say falling rental, it is in the present tense, not past tense so you obviously don't know the difference. You are wallowing in your caspian dream but too bad you missed the boat by many years. By the time j gateway TOP, the rental market n ocr pty px would have corrected by a huge margin and you can continue holding on to your old data n talk up jld in this forum all you want but it aint gonna save your investment.
So now diverting to talk about English???
Falling rental? what are you using as benchmark?
Fall by how many percent? Since when?
Dont waste you time trying lah, you know you are just not cut out for this kind of discussion.
Patrickstar
10-09-14, 23:31
You mean you haven't read the following article or choose to believe your shoebox unit at j gateway will defy the trend? Those who know the pty mkt will never pay $1700psf for a 99yr MM in jurong. A hundred carrotheads accompanying you in making a decision doesn't make you less a carrothead. Instead of coming here to blabber your one cent worth about jld day in day out, i think you should spend your time reflecting on your "investment" decision.
http://m.sbr.com.sg/residential-property/news/non-landed-private-residential-rental-prices-down-66-in-augustsrx
Non-landed private residential rental prices down 6.6% in August:SRX
Rental volume jumped 25%.
Rental prices of private condominiums continued to fall in August, posting a 6.6% year-on-year decline and a 0.6% month-on-month slide.
According to the Singapore Real Estate Exchange, this marks the 7th consecutive decline in prices. Non-landed Private Residential units in CCR and OCR saw rent decreases of 2.0% and 1.1% respectively, while units in RCR posted an increase in rent of 0.4%.
Rental volume jumped 25% year-on-year as an estimated 3,539 private condominium units were rented last month, compared with 2,831 units rented in August 2013. This also represents a 3.6% month-on-month increase compared to July 2014.
So now diverting to talk about English???
Falling rental? what are you using as benchmark?
Fall by how many percent? Since when?
Dont waste you time trying lah, you know you are just not cut out for this kind of discussion.
Patrickstar
11-09-14, 00:01
J Gateway developer managed to catch hold of carrotheads like you just before the downtrend. If you had been a prudent investor, you would not be following the herd.
PRICES LIKELY TO CONTINUE TO FALL
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/private-home-resale/1306498.html
Property observers said prices are likely to continue falling, under pressure from cooling measures introduced in recent years. Authorities have said that the property curbs are here to stay for now - with National Development Minister Mr Khaw Boon Wan the latest to make that point in Parliament last week.
According to property observers Channel NewsAsia spoke to, the fall in prices is not alarming and will only be a cause for concern if it is sustained for a few months.
There is in fact room for more moderation islandwide, according Mr Alan Tan, head of Singapore projects at HSR International Realtors. He pointed to how overall prices have gone up around 60 per cent from 2010 to 2013, but have only dropped by 20 per cent since 2013, when the latest round of cooling measures were implemented.
The resale volume, which remained flat in the traditionally upbeat month of July, also did not come as a surprise to property observers.
"Majority of buyers are still adopting the wait-and-see method. We do have a lot of shoppers in the market but majority of them are not willing to put in that deposit. Most of the buyers are quite confident that the prices are still going to go down," said Mr Benedict Lim, senior vice president of Dennis Wee Realty.
"If you compare to 2010, yes there is a big drop because the market was picking up; the market was heating up at that time,” said Mr Tan. “We used to see trends where new homes are sold off in months, two months, in a week even. That trend is not supposed to be normal. What we are seeing today is normal.
“Where the sales are consistent, they are not exactly fast, but they are consistent. If every new property launched is going to get sold out in a month, I think developers are just going to be increasing prices every month. So what we are seeing is a good control of price compared to the sales speed. If prices are dropping and the buyers are not coming back, then something is wrong."
Observers said homeowners would have to be realistic in their asking prices to seal deals. They can also turn to the rental market for respite. But official figures showed that rental prices have also been trending downwards since the third quarter of 2013, shortly after the Total Debt Servicing Ratio was introduced at the end of June 2013.
So now diverting to talk about English???
Falling rental? what are you using as benchmark?
Fall by how many percent? Since when?
Dont waste you time trying lah, you know you are just not cut out for this kind of discussion.
You mean you haven't read the following article or choose to believe your shoebox unit at j gateway will defy the trend? Those who know the pty mkt will never pay $1700psf for a 99yr MM in jurong. A hundred carrotheads accompanying you in making a decision doesn't make you less a carrothead. Instead of coming here to blabber your one cent worth about jld day in day out, i think you should spend your time reflecting on your "investment" decision.
http://m.sbr.com.sg/residential-property/news/non-landed-private-residential-rental-prices-down-66-in-augustsrx
Non-landed private residential rental prices down 6.6% in August:SRX
Rental volume jumped 25%.
Rental prices of private condominiums continued to fall in August, posting a 6.6% year-on-year decline and a 0.6% month-on-month slide.
According to the Singapore Real Estate Exchange, this marks the 7th consecutive decline in prices. Non-landed Private Residential units in CCR and OCR saw rent decreases of 2.0% and 1.1% respectively, while units in RCR posted an increase in rent of 0.4%.
Rental volume jumped 25% year-on-year as an estimated 3,539 private condominium units were rented last month, compared with 2,831 units rented in August 2013. This also represents a 3.6% month-on-month increase compared to July 2014.
Please dont jump the gun here.
a) You were saying that Caspian 2 bedder asking for $3100 is sign the rental at Caspian are falling.
b) I am asking you what are you using as benchmark? Since when? fell by how many percent?
Now you are tying to sneak away from my questions by making sweeping statement that property prices island-wide are falling and rising at the same pace and that supply demand imbalance are the same throughout the country.
Dude, stop all these nonsensical post in this thread. The more you post, the more you are trapping yourself.
And the more you try, the more we know that you know nothing.
Like I said before, never go against the force of logic, you never win.
Patrickstar
11-09-14, 00:40
Since you like squarefoot, here is some info to feed your ignorant mind. The average rental yield for caspian now is only a dismal 3.7-3.8% with prices ranging from $995 - $1,404psf. Compared to prices a couple of years back, obviously yield have fallen unless you are too daft to see that. A caspian first owner who bought his unit at $600psf would be enjoying a phenomenal yield renting his 2 bedder at $3k now, but if a subsequent buyer bought the same unit at $1200psf, and rents out the unit at $3k, isn't it obvious that the rental has fallen? This fall is based on upward price movement of pty prices and rent not catching up as fast. With the entire market now facing a downward trend in rent you expect caspian to enjoy 5% rental yield like before? I have never seen a more naive person as you.
And btw caspian price range of $995 - $1,404psf gives an average yield of just 3.7%, I wonder what kind of crap yield your J gateway 474sqft minnie mouse unit (which is smaller than a caspian one bedder) would get when rental continues tumbling down for a while more.
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=caspian&period=&mode=tuabcdefghqijksrlmnop&mask=0&anony=0
Please dont jump the gun here.
a) You were saying that Caspian 2 bedder asking for $3100 is sign the rental at Caspian are falling.
b) I am asking you what are you using as benchmark? Since when? fell by how many percent?
Now you are tying to sneak away from my questions by making sweeping statement that property prices island-wide are falling and rising at the same pace and that supply demand imbalance are the same throughout the country.
Dude, stop all these nonsensical post in this thread. The more you post, the more you are trapping yourself.
Since you like squarefoot, here is some info to feed your ignorant mind. The average rental yield for caspian now is only a dismal 3.7-3.8% with prices ranging from $995 - $1,404psf. Compared to prices a couple of years back, obviously yield have fallen unless you are too daft to see that. A caspian first owner who bought his unit at $600psf would be enjoying a phenomenal yield renting his 2 bedder at $3k now, but if a subsequent buyer bought the same unit at $1200psf, and rents out the unit at $3k, isn't it obvious that the rental has fallen? This fall is based on upward price movement of pty prices and rent not catching up as fast. With the entire market now facing a downward trend in rent you expect caspian to enjoy 5% rental yield like before? I have never seen a more naive person as you.
And btw caspian price range of $995 - $1,404psf gives an average yield of just 3.7%, I wonder what kind of crap yield your J gateway 474sqft minnie mouse unit (which is smaller than a caspian one bedder) would get when rental continues tumbling down for a while more.
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=caspian&period=&mode=tuabcdefghqijksrlmnop&mask=0&anony=0
I am sorry. several post ago I already told you the average rental yield of caspian was 3.8% and I even said that a mm unit managed to secure a rental yield of 6.7%. so I don't understand why you need to repeat what I have said and the ask a question when I already give. You the answer.
Dismal 3.8% yield? What project are you comparing to? Patrickstar Disney condo?
And btw how come you didn't use property guru advertisement to calculate rental yield since you believe that is the FUTURE? And tell me what is wrong with asking 3100 for a 2bedder? No answer?
I am sorry. several post ago I already told you the average rental yield of caspian was 3.8% and I even said that a mm unit managed to secure a rental yield of 6.7%. so I don't understand why you need to repeat what I have said and the ask a question when I already give. You the answer.
Dismal 3.8% yield? What project are you comparing to? Patrickstar Disney condo?
And btw how come you didn't use property guru advertisement to calculate rental yield since you believe that is the FUTURE? And tell me what is wrong with asking 3100 for a 2bedder? No answer?
your few threads must have given you a lot of stress.
in order to protect your kingdom, you also work as a guard.
your soldiers sleep well pun pee pee. the king blow trumpet doremi.
your few threads must have given you a lot of stress.
in order to protect your kingdom, you also work as a guard.
your soldiers sleep well pun pee pee. the king blow trumpet doremi.
You certainly dont sound like a property investors and you shouldnt even try to hide that.
You certainly dont sound like a property investors and you shouldnt even try to hide that.
one man say "the king will guard" all soldiers laughing their way to bed.
I just find it amusing why must argue so much. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - nobody can be really sure of the future situation.
For example, Punggol 21 to Punggol 21+ took sooooo long to materialise, several rallies, and I think across two PMs to finally show results.
Given the current plans, JLD at best is headed towards being a second CBD. That means higher property prices definitely and stronger rental demand for sure. But that itself provides a complex situation where some locals (families) just can't take the density and the slowdown in flow (traffic). Most family-oriented locals I have surveyed will swear not to live in that locality if they could afford to live elsewhere, and that will just about limit the rise it could have.
Also, with the existing HDBs and many older flats taking years to be moved out, it will take much much more to revitalise this area than Punggol area.
In summary, although I do see its growth in terms of expats and industry / commercial segments, it is very hard to logicalise residential growth. Residing so close to industrial regions just isn't for everyone - the psychological impact cannot be overriden just like that, nevermind the PSI index. In terms of investment and dollars and cents, it makes good sense, but living there, I just can't say the same.
Patrickstar
11-09-14, 12:32
6.7% based on launch price psf or current pricing psf? Still clinging on to your old data? Are you implying caspian rental yield hasnt fallen last time compared to now? I think the data shows caspian average rental has dropped across the board based on current pricing n you can't face the fact. Not forgetting caspian's current transacted is several hundred psf lower than j gateway's launch price, so what kind of rental yield you expect to get? You have been smoked by the showflat agent using old data of caspian to convince you to buy j gateway and this is evident from your endless rantings about caspian. You are seriously in denial n need help.
I am sorry. several post ago I already told you the average rental yield of caspian was 3.8% and I even said that a mm unit managed to secure a rental yield of 6.7%. so I don't understand why you need to repeat what I have said and the ask a question when I already give. You the answer.
Dismal 3.8% yield? What project are you comparing to? Patrickstar Disney condo?
And btw how come you didn't use property guru advertisement to calculate rental yield since you believe that is the FUTURE? And tell me what is wrong with asking 3100 for a 2bedder? No answer?
6.7% based on launch price psf or current pricing psf? Still clinging on to your old data? Are you implying caspian rental yield hasnt fallen last time compared to now? I think the data shows caspian average rental has dropped across the board based on current pricing n you can't face the fact. Not forgetting caspian's current transacted is several hundred psf lower than j gateway's launch price, so what kind of rental yield you expect to get? You have been smoked by the showflat agent using old data of caspian to convince you to buy j gateway and this is evident from your endless rantings about caspian. You are seriously in denial n need help.
a) 3.8% rental yield is low. which project are you comparing with?
b) Caspian rental is falling? by how many percent? what are you using as benchmark?
c) Comparing Caspian to J Gateway is like D24 Durian vs MSW Durian. For those who never tried durian before, they cant tell the different. But dont cant blame them, because not everyone are born to be investment savvy.
d) You reminded me of the same troll who were talking nonsense on Caspian thread.
But too bad, he ended up having to eat his own shit and quit and then rejoin the forum with a different name, thinking a new name will bring better fortune.
Patrickstar
11-09-14, 20:38
Your standard is very low, 3.8% considered good yield? What happened to your braggings in the past about caspian having very good rental yield? Lol.... you have no choice but to swallow this pathetic yield because your favourite research website squarefoot says so. If you very free you can go to your favourite website n check caspian rental yield two years ago n compare with now n tell me whether average rental yield fallen or go up. I won't waste my time searching the obvious n spoonfeed a person who can't understand simple things.
a) 3.8% rental yield is low. which project are you comparing with?
b) Caspian rental is falling? by how many percent? what are you using as benchmark?
c) Comparing Caspian to J Gateway is like D24 Durian vs MSW Durian. For those who never tried durian before, they cant tell the different. But dont cant blame them, because not everyone are born to be investment savvy.
d) You reminded me of the same troll who were talking nonsense on Caspian thread.
But too bad, he ended up having to eat his own shit and quit and then rejoin the forum with a different name, thinking a new name will bring better fortune.
Your standard is very low, 3.8% considered good yield? What happened to your braggings in the past about caspian having very good rental yield? Lol.... you have no choice but to swallow this pathetic yield because your favourite research website squarefoot says so. If you very free you can go to your favourite website n check caspian rental yield two years ago n compare with now n tell me whether average rental yield fallen or go up. I won't waste my time searching the obvious n spoonfeed a person who can't understand simple things.
My standard is not low, its just that your IQ and mental capacity for number is low. And its the reason why you are always struggling to substantiate your claims with facts and numbers, which result in you making all sort of nonsensical stories and waste time trying to analyze propertyguru ads.
3.8% average rental yield for a condo project that has appreciate more than 100% in just 5 years is low? Perhaps you could name us a few similar type of condo that is command such rental yield and solid price appreciation.
Patrickstar
11-09-14, 21:22
What you just said has proven you are indeed as daft as anyone can get. The current Squarefoot average rental yield is based on current prices of caspian units and you are basing current rental yield (in 2014)on launch price (in 2009)?.....ROTFL
I think you play monopoly better don't need to invest in property.
My standard is not low, its just that your IQ and mental capacity for number is low. And its the reason why you are always struggling to substantiate your claims with facts and numbers, which result in you making all sort of nonsensical stories and waste time trying to analyze propertyguru ads.
3.8% average rental yield for a condo project that has appreciate more than 100% in just 5 years is low? Perhaps you could name us a few similar type of condo that is command such rental yield and solid price appreciation.
What you just said has proven you are indeed as daft as anyone can get. The current Squarefoot average rental yield is based on current prices of caspian units and you are basing current rental yield (in 2014)on launch price (in 2009)?.....ROTFL
I think you play monopoly better don't need to invest in property.
You just validated my point that you cant substantiate what you are saying.
Totally remind me of the troll who was trolling on Caspian thread claiming Caspian buyers are carrothead bla bla bla.
5 years on, price of Caspian appreciate by more than 100% and even such drastic increase, rental yield is still averaging around 3.8%.
Is this troll capable of telling us which other project is more attractive that this?
No prize for guessing.
Patrickstar
11-09-14, 23:43
Flipping prata is your speciality so i suggest you have that as your career. You asked whether rental yield has fallen for caspian and i have proven to you that average rental yield has fallen comparing before and now and you try to squirm your way out by basing the current rental yield on caspian launch price.
I think this discussion is out of your depth and you should just stick to playing your monopoly board game.
You just validated my point that you cant substantiate what you are saying.
Totally remind me of the troll who was trolling on Caspian thread claiming Caspian buyers are carrothead bla bla bla.
5 years on, price of Caspian appreciate by more than 100% and even such drastic increase, rental yield is still averaging around 3.8%.
Is this troll capable of telling us which other project is more attractive that this?
No prize for guessing.
Flipping prata is your speciality so i suggest you have that as your career. You asked whether rental yield has fallen for caspian and i have proven to you that average rental yield has fallen comparing before and now and you try to squirm your way out by basing the current rental yield on caspian launch price.
I think this discussion is out of your depth and you should just stick to playing your monopoly board game.
There is nothing what you said that has proven nothing. The only thing that you have proven so far is your inability to substantiate what you said and thats the reason why you are coming up with all sort of ridicules stories and baseless assumption to prove your point. such as?? Cherry picking propertyguru advertisement.
Dont believe?? Then answer my questions.
a) What are you using as benchmark determine rent for caspian has fallen
b) Since when did you notice that rent has fallen?
c) Where is your source of data? Propertyguru advertisement??? Are you referring to that one ad about 2 bedder asking for $3100?
d) Rent has fallen by how many percentage?
No prize for guessing this troll will not be able to give an answer to these questions.
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 00:24
I don't think you even know what is the meaning of falling rental yield. If you understand it, you won't be asking me a load of stupid questions. I suggest you don't embarrass yourself more than you already have.
There is nothing what you said that has proven nothing. The only thing that you have proven so far is your inability to substantiate what you said and thats the reason why you are coming up with all sort of ridicules stories and baseless assumption to prove your point. such as?? Cherry picking propertyguru advertisement.
Dont believe?? Then answer my questions.
a) What are you using as benchmark determine rent for caspian has fallen
b) Since when did you notice that rent has fallen?
c) Where is your source of data? Propertyguru advertisement??? Are you referring to that one ad about 2 bedder asking for $3100?
d) Rent has fallen by how many percentage?
No prize for guessing this troll will not be able to give an answer to these questions.
I don't think you even know what is the meaning of falling rental yield. If you understand it, you won't be asking me a load of stupid questions. I suggest you don't embarrass yourself more than you already have.
you just validated my point about your limited mental capacity to talk about quantifiable subject and logic thinking.
There is no need to think because I can tell with much certainty that you dont understand the term rental yield. All you are capable is to cherry pick propertyguru advertisement to tell us that rent is falling and saying URA transaction data are pointless.
If you say rent is falling, tell us from where exactly did the rent fall from. Without this a baseline for benchmark, how on earth do you know its falling and not rising? And since when did the rent of caspian started falling? Fallen by how many percent? No answer? No head no tail?
Perhaps you should learn to keep quiet while the adults are talking.
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 01:10
Squarefoot bases its rental yield of 3.8% on current 2014 Caspian prices and when people look at rental yield in 2014, nobody would compare rental in 2014 against property prices in 2009 to derive a yield, only a dumbass like you would do that. When property price increase year on year, rental yield would fall if absolute rental in dollars does not increase in proportion to property price increase, you mean you don't know that? Your stupid questions about what benchmark i base on and rent falling by how many percent blar blar blar shows you are indeed a noob and just a property investor wannabe.
you just validated my point about your limited mental capacity to talk about quantifiable subject and logic thinking.
There is no need to think because I can tell with much certainty that you dont understand the term rental yield. All you are capable is to cherry pick propertyguru advertisement to tell us that rent is falling and saying URA transaction data are pointless.
If you say rent is falling, tell us from where exactly did the rent fall from. Without this a baseline for benchmark, how on earth do you know its falling and not rising? And since when did the rent of caspian started falling? Fallen by how many percent? No answer? No head no tail?
Perhaps you should learn to keep quiet while the adults are talking.
I just find it amusing why must argue so much. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - nobody can be really sure of the future situation.
For example, Punggol 21 to Punggol 21+ took sooooo long to materialise, several rallies, and I think across two PMs to finally show results.
Given the current plans, JLD at best is headed towards being a second CBD. That means higher property prices definitely and stronger rental demand for sure. But that itself provides a complex situation where some locals (families) just can't take the density and the slowdown in flow (traffic). Most family-oriented locals I have surveyed will swear not to live in that locality if they could afford to live elsewhere, and that will just about limit the rise it could have.
Also, with the existing HDBs and many older flats taking years to be moved out, it will take much much more to revitalise this area than Punggol area.
In summary, although I do see its growth in terms of expats and industry / commercial segments, it is very hard to logicalise residential growth. Residing so close to industrial regions just isn't for everyone - the psychological impact cannot be overriden just like that, nevermind the PSI index. In terms of investment and dollars and cents, it makes good sense, but living there, I just can't say the same.
Haha I find this thread very funny.
It is ok to refer to URA past transacted rental data as a general guide, but every seasoned landlord knows that these matters are not in the URA data and should be considered before investing in a property for rental income:
(i) how many rental contracts are signed in the condo in proportion to the number left empty because no tenant can be found: just because many units are rented out at relatively high rent doesn't mean you will find a tenant.
Why? That's because rents are sticky downwards. Expats often have a housing allowance (albeit reduced these days) but as long as the rental falls within the company's budget, its fine for them to accept. Also, many landlords who bought property long ago cheaply would rather leave their units empty than anyhow lelong and rent to ah kow and ah neow who might damage their property.
Thus, I think there is some justification to look at the number of available ads in propertyguru (or other sites) as a hint of how many units are actually empty and looking for tenants.
(ii) past transactions don't reflect the amount of future supply relative to future demand. Why do you think the government is clamping down on shoebox in suburbs even though rental yield seems to be good *for now*?
Squarefoot bases its rental yield of 3.8% on current 2014 Caspian prices and when people look at rental yield in 2014, nobody would compare rental in 2014 against property prices in 2009 to derive a yield, only a dumbass like you would do that. When property price increase year on year, rental yield would fall if absolute rental in dollars does not increase in proportion to property price increase, you mean you don't know that? Your stupid questions about what benchmark i base on and rent falling by how many percent blar blar blar shows you are indeed a noob and just a property investor wannabe.
I am glad you are learning, and thats exactly the reason why I tell you dont waste you time telling everyone that rent at Caspian is falling because a 2 bedder is asking for $3100 per month in rental. Reason? You dont know the unit cost, which mean low rent doesnt mean low yield.
So please stop trying to turn the table against you "teacher" ok??
(ii) past transactions don't reflect the amount of future supply relative to future demand. Why do you think the government is clamping down on shoebox in suburbs even though rental yield seems to be good *for now*?
It's indeed amusing that a few different matters are merged and discussed as 1 matter.
JLD story is a different matter as compared to shoebox in suburbs. Govt clamping down? Only discourage via ratio setting, not really stopping developers.
The ruling also doesn't mean Govt wants to protect whichever segment. We must learn to think from the angles of different people (Govt officials, expats coming over from other nationalities) in order to make the best choices. In that respect, both the past and present data are only reference points.
Haha I find this thread very funny.
It is ok to refer to URA past transacted rental data as a general guide, but every seasoned landlord knows that these matters are not in the URA data and should be considered before investing in a property for rental income:
(i) how many rental contracts are signed in the condo in proportion to the number left empty because no tenant can be found: just because many units are rented out at relatively high rent doesn't mean you will find a tenant.
Why? That's because rents are sticky downwards. Expats often have a housing allowance (albeit reduced these days) but as long as the rental falls within the company's budget, its fine for them to accept. Also, many landlords who bought property long ago cheaply would rather leave their units empty than anyhow lelong and rent to ah kow and ah neow who might damage their property.
Thus, I think there is some justification to look at the number of available ads in propertyguru (or other sites) as a hint of how many units are actually empty and looking for tenants.
(ii) past transactions don't reflect the amount of future supply relative to future demand. Why do you think the government is clamping down on shoebox in suburbs even though rental yield seems to be good *for now*?
What you are saying are very academic and general statements that contain bits and pcs of reports from different sources which I have read so many times over the past 6 months or so. However smart investors will know that these reports are only good at giving you a general view of the market, it doesnt not give insight to what actually happen in different region. reasons? Supply and demand imbalance are different from region to region, (e.g. D22 has got the lease supply of MM apartment in the entire Singapore) and not every part in Singapore has got a growth story like JLD, (e.g. thousands of New and Exisiting jobs are moving from other part of Singapore to JLD)
While you are right the expat are tightening their budget, but its wrong to assume that the effect will hit every segment of the market equally because during bad times, it is the high end segment of market that are being hit the worst as consumers migrate to lower end products. Which in this case moving from CCR to OCR. And to add salt into the wound, more international schools are moving to OCR and within JLD region alone there are already 2 new mega size international school open in the past 2 years, which has got the capacity for more than 5000 students.
URA transaction data is perhaps the one and only RELIABLE data that is available on the public because propertyguru ads are misleading due to the reasons which I have already said before. e.g. Property agents are now very desperate, they do not demand or expect exclusive listing anymore, so many of ads on property website are actually duplicated ads, and many are also "expired" ads used by agent to sell themselves.
So please dont blame in on URA data, blame in on those simpleton who doesnt know how to use them.
I am glad you are learning, and thats exactly the reason why I tell you dont waste you time telling everyone that rent at Caspian is falling because a 2 bedder is asking for $3100 per month in rental. Reason? You dont know the unit cost, which mean low rent doesnt mean low yield.
So please stop trying to turn the table against you "teacher" ok??
caspian last time 2 room can ask for 4k, now have dropped to 3k+ due to competition, ...,my decision is to sell for profit, ... now is a game tat is difficult to play, with TDSR, which is restrictive, everybody just become cash rich, because of little investment opportunities
caspian last time 2 room can ask for 4k, now have dropped to 3k+ due to competition, ...,my decision is to sell for profit, ... now is a game tat is difficult to play, with TDSR, which is restrictive, everybody just become cash rich, because of little investment opportunities
No offense, what you just said make you sound like a cherry picker.
Last time? When?
$4k vs $3k? If you are a tenant are you willing to pay the same price for MRT track facing unit if you can get a lake facing unit?
No offense, what you just said make you sound like a cherry picker.
Last time? When?
$4k vs $3k? If you are a tenant are you willing to pay the same price for MRT track facing unit if you can get a lake facing unit?
Last time is 2 years ago wen top.... my unit face the mrt track! If I am a tenant , I won't rent caspian, damn noisy, either mrt facing or lake facing.... even at the pool can hear the roaring noise .....
Tenants have more choices these days in a quiet market. Never buy properties facing mrt tracks and major roads like expressways. The noise plus pollution can be really bad.
Last time is 2 years ago wen top.... my unit face the mrt track! If I am a tenant , I won't rent caspian, damn noisy, either mrt facing or lake facing.... even at the pool can hear the roaring noise .....
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 13:36
To determine average rental yield for the project for 2014, research companies like squarefoot use average unit pricing for 2014 and rental for 2014 to determine that. No research company would use 2009 or 2010 or 2011 property price n rental in 2014 to derive average rental yield for the project in 2014.
You have clearly shown your lack of understanding and my advice to you is not to make yourself look more stupid than you already are.
I am glad you are learning, and thats exactly the reason why I tell you dont waste you time telling everyone that rent at Caspian is falling because a 2 bedder is asking for $3100 per month in rental. Reason? You dont know the unit cost, which mean low rent doesnt mean low yield.
So please stop trying to turn the table against you "teacher" ok??
To determine average rental yield for the project for 2014, research companies like squarefoot use average unit pricing for 2014 and rental for 2014 to determine that. No research company would use 2009 or 2010 or 2011 property price n rental in 2014 to derive average rental yield for the project in 2014.
You have clearly shown your lack of understanding and my advice to you is not to make yourself look more stupid than you already are.
Not too long ago, you were just saying that 1 2 bedder caspian is asking for $3100 psf in propertyguru and you use that to determine that rent yield has fallen.
And I remember tell you to use squarefoot.com.sg and also correct you that if you dont know what is the holding cost of the particular unit in caspian, how do you know rental yield is falling?
And now you are turning the table to teach me about rental yield and using squrefoot.com.sg?? There is a saying in hokkien, dont try to transplant people's butt cheek on your face? shame shame!!
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 17:23
The contention is rental yield has fallen for caspian n based on past average prices of caspian n past rental in comparison with present average prices n present day rental. it has fallen n that is a fact you can't accept. You lose the argument start to flip prata. I think you go play with your masak masak better n don't make yourself look more stupid than you already are.
Not too long ago, you were just saying that 1 2 bedder caspian is asking for $3100 psf in propertyguru and you use that to determine that rent yield has fallen.
And I remember tell you to use squarefoot.com.sg and also correct you that if you dont know what is the holding cost of the particular unit in caspian, how do you know rental yield is falling?
And now you are turning the table to teach me about rental yield and using squrefoot.com.sg?? There is a saying in hokkien, dont try to transplant people's butt cheek on your face? shame shame!!
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 17:42
Btw please don't pretend that you know what rental yield is coz you don't. If you knew how to calculate the fall in rental yield, you would not be using outdated property pricing to justify present day rental yield. Everyone in the forum can see the boo boo you made..lol
Not too long ago, you were just saying that 1 2 bedder caspian is asking for $3100 psf in propertyguru and you use that to determine that rent yield has fallen.
And I remember tell you to use squarefoot.com.sg and also correct you that if you dont know what is the holding cost of the particular unit in caspian, how do you know rental yield is falling?
And now you are turning the table to teach me about rental yield and using squrefoot.com.sg?? There is a saying in hokkien, dont try to transplant people's butt cheek on your face? shame shame!!
Btw please don't pretend that you know what rental yield is coz you don't. If you knew how to calculate the fall in rental yield, you would not be using outdated property pricing to justify present day rental yield. Everyone in the forum can see the boo boo you made..lol
I certainly dont know how to calculate "THE FALL" in rental yield. All I know is that some troll in this forum cherrypicked a few ads on propertyguru and then start going around telling everyone that rental for caspian is falling without tell us
a) Falling from where? Which level of pricing?
b) Fall my how much %%%
c) Since when it started falling.
And then the troll go on to explain how we should not be using URA transaction price indication and should instead look at propertyguru asking price.
When you kpkb about 2 bedder caspian asking for $3100 rent per month, what exactly is the problem? Do you have any idea what is the valuation of that particular units? Reason for asking is because in Jul, there was a 1 bedder transacted at $3000, a 2 bedder transacted at $4000, and a 3 bedder at $5000. So you say rent is falling? How so?
And you go on to say that 3.8% average rental yield is lousy, especially for a project that risen by more than 100% over the past 5 years. Then tell us which project is better?
Like I said again, please dont waste your time trying to engage in discussion that involves quantifiable subject or else you will end up tripping all over and we have to waste our time reading all your nonsensical story telling and illogical reasoning.
Btw please don't pretend that you know what rental yield is coz you don't. If you knew how to calculate the fall in rental yield, you would not be using outdated property pricing to justify present day rental yield. Everyone in the forum can see the boo boo you made..lol
Patrickstar - as much as I try to keep away from this lunatic these days - my memory is long , and his hypocrisy is endless.
Feel free to beat him with his own stick
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/19486-How-to-calculate-rental-yield/page4?p=448252#post448252
"If you want to talk about historical purchase price, then someone will say 15%, 10% and others will say 3% all from the same development.
Is that even meaningful to discuss at all?
What do you think they used to calculate rental yield?"
"What if someone who bought the HDB 30 years ago at $35,000 and currently renting out at $2500 per month?
85% rental yield? "
Enjoy your weekend - try not to slap him too hard.
The contention is rental yield has fallen for caspian n based on past average prices of caspian n past rental in comparison with present average prices n present day rental. it has fallen n that is a fact you can't accept. You lose the argument start to flip prata. I think you go play with your masak masak better n don't make yourself look more stupid than you already are.
Stop twisting and changing your storyline because we know that you just made that up.
Contention?
I remember correctly that you were trying to tell us rent of caspian is falling just by looking at propertyguru.
So stop lying and stop try to act smart and stop transplanting other people's butt cheek on your face.
You base your projected rental on 1 or 2 transactions in Caspian? lol....no wonder carrotheads are always carrotheads.
I advise you to take a look at propertyguru to see what the two bedroom units in caspian are asking in terms of rent now before you start blowing your trumpet that you will be getting more than $3k a month in rental for your micro minnie mouse 474sqft unit in J gateway. Btw almost all the units listed below are negotiable.
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18318756/for-rent-caspian
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18247819/for-rent-caspian
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18339300/for-rent-caspian
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18275090/for-rent-caspian
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18275090/for-rent-caspian
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18291572/for-rent-caspian
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/18305093/for-rent-caspian
Patrickstar - as much as I try to keep away from this lunatic these days - my memory is long , and his hypocrisy is endless.
Feel free to beat him with his own stick
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/19486-How-to-calculate-rental-yield/page4?p=448252#post448252
"If you want to talk about historical purchase price, then someone will say 15%, 10% and others will say 3% all from the same development.
Is that even meaningful to discuss at all?
What do you think they used to calculate rental yield?"
"What if someone who bought the HDB 30 years ago at $35,000 and currently renting out at $2500 per month?
85% rental yield? "
Enjoy your weekend - try not to slap him too hard.
Patrickstar, I already told you dont try to teach me about rental yield and all that historical or current price because I know them much more than you do.
Thats why I said, stop transplanting other people's butt cheek on your face.
As for EBD, the worst and best street guru, I am sure you must be tripping all over for telling everyone that Jurong is the worst street.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/18201-Owners-in-the-West-beware!!/page69?highlight=PRoperty%20101
......... oh dear - got caught in a lie. Now as I expected trying to deflect & change topic which has been answered 1000 times.
Are you saying you didn't write all that stuff I picked out for patrick?
oh dear oh dear oh dear.
ps - I do have property in Jurong. I bought at the right time, before carrothead pricing. So cheap I don't see why I should let go. Especially if I use your historical rental yield view of 2014 rather than your exact opposite of what you are saying in 2013
Feel free to call me a liar - I will dig up old posts from before your mental retardation joined this forum.
Enjoy your weekend & try to relax. Your case of buyers remorse is not helping you one iota.
......... oh dear - got caught in a lie. Now as I expected trying to deflect & change topic which has been answered 1000 times.
Are you saying you didn't write all that stuff I picked out for patrick?
oh dear oh dear oh dear.
ps - I do have property in Jurong. I bought at the right time, before carrothead pricing. So cheap I don't see why I should let go. Especially if I use your historical rental yield view of 2014 rather than your exact opposite of what you are saying in 2013
Feel free to call me a liar - I will dig up old posts from before your mental retardation joined this forum.
Enjoy your weekend & try to relax. Your case of buyers remorse is not helping you one iota.
iirc you were saying buying the worst property along river valley is still better than buying the best unit in jurong.
Caspian has appreciated by more than 100%.in last 5 years. May I know how's your river valley aka best street property doing?
iirc you were saying buying the worst property along river valley is still better than buying the best unit in jurong.
Caspian has appreciated by more than 100%.in last 5 years. May I know how's your river valley aka best street property doing?
Actually not 100% but much closer to that than your 0 to negative. You have to give credit to those who know at what time to buy rather than be a carrot head and buy at peak and now losing value from purchase price everyday.
Don't worry my river vally freehold almost 4x times size your Mickey Mouse got at below 950 psf in 2009 , how much you think I've made since then? Almost same , don't worry about me, it's sweet of you but not necessary.
Still avoiding and hoping topic of how you calculate rental yield will disappear? I'm not surprised as you've been exposed for being a double talking hypocrite. I'm off out for a nice drink now. I'll leave it to Patrick to savage you over the weekend now that I have given & everyone your previous testimony on this subject. So paiseh if I you leh.... Caught with your own tongue.
PPS.. You still really don't get the best street , worst street concept. You need to stop dwelling on it. Use your method of being told sweet story by agent who is only after his commission , even though cooling measure after cooling measure being poured on the market. How's that working out for you btw ?
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 20:41
If rental yield has dropped for caspian, it has dropped, facts are facts unless you dont know the meaning of falling rental yield. I mentioned $3100 rent for a caspian two bedder to illustrate the pathetic rental in comparison with today's pricing for that two bedder unit (not old pricing). Since you say that caspian has increased 100% in price, you have proven beyond reasonable doubt that rental yield has fallen coz nowhere in jurong has rental increased by 100% in the past few years.
I think you go back n play your masak masak better, property investment is not for people of your mental capacity.
Stop twisting and changing your storyline because we know that you just made that up.
Contention?
I remember correctly that you were trying to tell us rent of caspian is falling just by looking at propertyguru.
So stop lying and stop try to act smart and stop transplanting other people's butt cheek on your face.
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 20:55
After spending so much time in this forum, i pity that bozo for not being able to understand the simple concept of falling rental yield. I think the showflat agents must have taught him to use caspian's 2009 pricing and caspian's 2013 rental yield n smoked him into believing that is the same yield he would get for his J gateway unit...hahaha... really can't believe such stupid people still exists
Patrickstar - as much as I try to keep away from this lunatic these days - my memory is long , and his hypocrisy is endless.
Feel free to beat him with his own stick
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/19486-How-to-calculate-rental-yield/page4?p=448252#post448252
"If you want to talk about historical purchase price, then someone will say 15%, 10% and others will say 3% all from the same development.
Is that even meaningful to discuss at all?
What do you think they used to calculate rental yield?"
"What if someone who bought the HDB 30 years ago at $35,000 and currently renting out at $2500 per month?
85% rental yield? "
Enjoy your weekend - try not to slap him too hard.
After spending so much time in this forum, i pity that bozo for not being able to understand the simple concept of falling rental yield. I think the showflat agents must have taught him to use caspian's 2009 pricing and caspian's 2013 rental yield n smoked him into believing that is the same yield he would get for his J gateway unit...hahaha... really can't believe such stupid people still exists
That idiot will continue blowing his trumpet until he hit thousand pages. Let's award him carrot head of the year.
Actually not 100% but much closer to that than your 0 to negative. You have to give credit to those who know at what time to buy rather than be a carrot head and buy at peak and now losing value from purchase price everyday.
Don't worry my river vally freehold almost 4x times size your Mickey Mouse got at below 950 psf in 2009 , how much you think I've made since then? Almost same , don't worry about me, it's sweet of you but not necessary.
Still avoiding and hoping topic of how you calculate rental yield will disappear? I'm not surprised as you've been exposed for being a double talking hypocrite. I'm off out for a nice drink now. I'll leave it to Patrick to savage you over the weekend now that I have given & everyone your previous testimony on this subject. So paiseh if I you leh.... Caught with your own tongue.
PPS.. You still really don't get the best street , worst street concept. You need to stop dwelling on it. Use your method of being told sweet story by agent who is only after his commission , even though cooling measure after cooling measure being poured on the market. How's that working out for you btw ?
So after so much big talk about property 101 aka. best street and worst street, you still cant back up your claim that buying the worst unit along RV is still better than buying best unit in Jurong. Am I right that this is an example of what you call All Fart No Shit (as what you have said before).
And now, you are lowering yourself to making baseless accusation and assumption of others just to make yourself look BIG and SMART? 4 TIMES? hahaha...4 TIMES OF WHAT?
For those interested to know about PROPERTY 101, you can check out this link. Unfortunately, Mr. All Fart No Shit was unable to explain to us why property around Jurong Lake District are doing so much better than River Valley.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/18201-Owners-in-the-West-beware!!/page69
After spending so much time in this forum, i pity that bozo for not being able to understand the simple concept of falling rental yield. I think the showflat agents must have taught him to use caspian's 2009 pricing and caspian's 2013 rental yield n smoked him into believing that is the same yield he would get for his J gateway unit...hahaha... really can't believe such stupid people still exists
Please stop copying what I said and make it your own, that is out right shameful plagiarism. aka transplanting people's butt cheek on your own face to look good.
Here is what I wrong before you even know what you are talking about.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/19486-How-to-calculate-rental-yield/page4?p=448252#post448252
Want to impress us with your knowledge?
Then tell us how to can you tell caspian rent is falling just be looking at one propertyguru advertisement
Patrickstar
12-09-14, 22:04
I take it that you are asking me for an antidote to cure your stupidity. Sorry i don't have a cure for that.
Please stop copying what I said and make it your own, that is out right shameful plagiarism. aka transplanting people's butt cheek on your own face to look good.
Here is what I wrong before you even know what you are talking about.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/19486-How-to-calculate-rental-yield/page4?p=448252#post448252
Want to impress us with your knowledge?
Then tell us how to can you tell caspian rent is falling just be looking at one propertyguru advertisement
I take it that you are asking me for an antidote to cure your stupidity. Sorry i don't have a cure for that.
No, I am asking you to stop trolling in this thread as we already know your incapacity to engage in quantitative and qualitative discussions.
Please go start a thread to teach the forummers here how to cherry pick propertyguru advertisement asking price to make investment decision.
Patrickstar
15-09-14, 10:54
There are lots of industrial air pollutants in jurong not captured in psi as well.
9154
EBD, what happen to you Best Street vs Worst Street Property 101 theory? Obviously is just a theory right?
SINGAPORE] A larger percentage of high-end luxury condo homes on the resale market are selling at a loss and a smaller percentage at a profit, as the tide of the once-rosy property market recedes and reveals those who have been "swimming naked" - that is, those without adequate holding power for their extravagant purchases.
According to data compiled by STProperty.sg from URA Realis, 7 per cent of transacted units in the prime districts 9, 10 and 11 sold at a loss in the first eight months of this year, up from 5.5 per cent over the same year-ago period.
Fewer people are profiting from their resales too: only 62.2 per cent enjoyed any capital gains - a steep drop from 83.5 per cent a year ago. And 4.5 per cent sold without making a profit or a loss (versus 0.4 per cent a year ago).
Yields are also under pressure. The low-rental environment is leaving more owners struggling to repay their mortgages. Assuming a S$1.6 million loan (equivalent to an 80 per cent loan limit for a S$2 million property) is taken out at an annual 1.5 per cent interest rate over a 30-year tenure, this would amount to a monthly mortgage of S$5,500. Rentals would therefore have to be in excess of this to cover mortgage payments.
"In some cases, the monthly rental cannot cover the mortgage. Take a S$5 million Sentosa Cove condo: it would take a monthly rent of S$13,800 to cover your loan," said Christine Li, head of research and consultancy at OrangeTee.
"That said, it's quite common that rents cannot cover monthly instalments, especially for bigger units. But those who don't have holding power would have to let go of their units. Others may be forced to do mortgagee sales," she added.
But not all the sellers who were willing to stomach losses were over-leveraged. Some could simply want to exit the market because they don't see the cooling measures ending anytime soon (meaning, they expect that price recovery is still far off), or just as a way of rebalancing their overall portfolio.
"A large proportion of purchases in the prime districts are by foreigners; perhaps they are just pulling out of Singapore. But the fall in demand for private homes makes it harder for sellers to find buyers. So if they really need to sell, they will have to lower their prices significantly," said Lee Lay Keng, DTZ's Southeast Asia regional head of research.
Investors would also have bought into high-end properties in major cities in the US, Europe and Australia, where there have been exciting properties launched in recent years, RST Research director Ong Kah Seng said.
In all likelihood, despite pulling out of Singapore, they might have profited elsewhere as other countries saw an uptick in residential property prices after the global financial crisis.
Meanwhile, loan curbs and price cutting by developers at new condo launches also continue to sap strength from the resale market.
Condo homes in the prime districts 9 (Orchard Road, River Valley), 10 (Bukit Timah, Holland, Balmoral) and 11 (Novena, Newton, Thomson) have traditionally been purchased as investment homes for capital gains and rental yields.
Buyers bank on demand from expatriate lessees, most of whom enjoy staying near the city. But with corporate housing budgets having shrunk post-financial crisis, these foreign workers are moving instead to the city fringes and suburbs, with some even renting HDB flats.
Losses made in resale transactions from January to August 2014 range from S$9,300 for a unit at The Hillier in Bukit Timah, to S$2.06 million for a unit at St Regis Residences in Tanglin. The latter was purchased at S$6.8 million in 2007, and sold for S$4.7 million in April this year.
Four units at The Promont (at Cairnhill), St Thomas Suites (near River Valley), Tanglin View and Waterscape At Cavenagh also resold at considerable losses of S$800,000 to S$1.2 million each (see table).
Notably, there were also four units at Robinson Suites on Shenton Way which resold at losses of about S$300,000.
Many of the loss-making resale transactions from the first eight months of this year were from sellers who bought their units in 2007, in the run-up to the previous peak in property prices and just when the financial crisis was starting.
Prices of these prime-location condos have recovered since, but dipped back down slightly from 2012 due to cooling measures. As at Q2 2014, prices were roughly on a par with the previous peak in 2008.
This means that not only would buyers who picked up condo units fresh at launch in 2007 not enjoy much capital gains, they may also suffer a loss if they sell now.
While analysts expect the trend of loss-making resale transactions to continue, they say it is unlikely to worsen significantly as long as economic conditions - such as low unemployment and interest rates - remain favourable.
So after so much big talk about property 101 aka. best street and worst street, you still cant back up your claim that buying the worst unit along RV is still better than buying best unit in Jurong. Am I right that this is an example of what you call All Fart No Shit (as what you have said before).
And now, you are lowering yourself to making baseless accusation and assumption of others just to make yourself look BIG and SMART? 4 TIMES? hahaha...4 TIMES OF WHAT?
For those interested to know about PROPERTY 101, you can check out this link. Unfortunately, Mr. All Fart No Shit was unable to explain to us why property around Jurong Lake District are doing so much better than River Valley.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/18201-Owners-in-the-West-beware!!/page69
Oh dear lord - the hilarity continues.
Now that you have been caught in a lie - flip flopping about on how you calculate rental yield depending on when and at what time you bought the property - you basically argue it both ways, at different times, with different people. Are you not even slightly embarrassed to have been so easily caught out? That was the subject of the last few pages.
Immediately you cannot answer as you are well and truly caught in world class hypocrisy - you try your best to deflect attention away as desperately as possible. Basic Ringo smokescreen attempt.
But too bad - everyone can see through it and see you for who you are. Completely unprincipled.
How do you calculate rental yield. You seem to do it both ways while disagreeing with others both ways. That is a very special skill.
ps
I've explained your concern 100 times. I tried to do it nicely at first. But as you have revealed yourself to be a desperado type, and continue to think best street/worst street is actually about a post code, I say keep on thinking it. If you decided 2+2=5 I have no doubt that even a professor of mathematics would be able to explain to you where the fault in your thinking lies.
Everyone with more than 1 braincell in their head understand the concept. Only you don't. I'm OK with that. Stick with your buy at market peak strategy.
EBD, what happen to you Best Street vs Worst Street Property 101 theory? Obviously is just a theory right?
That is not the theory - that explains why you don't understand.
Only half if it is there. Probably because you can only half understand things.
Keep at it. You may eventually get it.
Given that prices have fallen everywhere since when you invested at completely the wrong time - and I'm still way up on the deal in both locations, I'll take your concern about my outstanding increase in equity vs your non-concern about absolute loss on your own investment as something for me to not care about in the slightest.
That is not the theory - that explains why you don't understand.
Only half if it is there. Probably because you can only half understand things.
Keep at it. You may eventually get it.
Given that prices have fallen everywhere since when you invested at completely the wrong time - and I'm still way up on the deal in both locations, I'll take your concern about my outstanding increase in equity vs your non-concern about absolute loss on your own investment as something for me to not care about in the slightest.
I am glad that I dont subscribe to your nonsensical theory of buying the worst unit along river valley is better than buying the best unit in jurong. And its funny to see how forummers like DKSG could FULLY AGREE with it. He should be glad to made the decision to retire his DKSG account to avoid embarrassment.
For those who are interested to read more about "PROPERTY 101" please go to page 69 of this thread.
Honestly whats the point of keeping telling everyone you are smart when you cant even put any numbers and facts on the table to back up your property 101? Is this a case of ALL FART NO SHIT (As what you said before)??
I am glad that I dont subscribe to your nonsensical theory of buying the worst unit along river valley is better than buying the best unit in jurong. And its funny to see how forummers like DKSG could FULLY AGREE with it. He should be glad to made the decision to retire his DKSG account to avoid embarrassment.
For those who are interested to read more about "PROPERTY 101" please go to page 69 of this thread.
Honestly whats the point of keeping telling everyone you are smart when you cant even put any numbers and facts on the table to back up your property 101? Is this a case of ALL FART NO SHIT (As what you said before)??
don't know who is the unlucky one to stay next door to you. your voice will be louder than the track noise.
Patrickstar
15-09-14, 14:51
What figures do you have to substantiate paying $17xxpsf for a minnie mouse unit in j gateway is a sensible investment? Caspian's 100% capital appreciation n using 2009 pricing to calculate 2014 rental yield? Lol... that speaks a lot about your calibre.
I am glad that I dont subscribe to your nonsensical theory of buying the worst unit along river valley is better than buying the best unit in jurong. And its funny to see how forummers like DKSG could FULLY AGREE with it. He should be glad to made the decision to retire his DKSG account to avoid embarrassment.
For those who are interested to read more about "PROPERTY 101" please go to page 69 of this thread.
Honestly whats the point of keeping telling everyone you are smart when you cant even put any numbers and facts on the table to back up your property 101? Is this a case of ALL FART NO SHIT (As what you said before)??
Too early to tell, let's wait another 10 years and see what is the price of Caspian vs those in River Valley? :rolleyes:
iirc you were saying buying the worst property along river valley is still better than buying the best unit in jurong.
Caspian has appreciated by more than 100%.in last 5 years. May I know how's your river valley aka best street property doing?
Haze beware
9177
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/blob/1363248/1410777377000/24-hour-psi-sep-15-5pm-data.jpg
Haze from Sumatra to our West will hit Singapore's West first, so obviously PSI highest, now put PSI probe in middle of Jurong Lake also can't hide Liao!
Haze beware
9177
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/blob/1363248/1410777377000/24-hour-psi-sep-15-5pm-data.jpg
Patrickstar
15-09-14, 22:26
Those thinking of buying property in Jurong.....BEWARE!!!
Haze from Sumatra to our West will hit Singapore's West first, so obviously PSI highest, now put PSI probe in middle of Jurong Lake also can't hide Liao!
Haze from Sumatra to our West will hit Singapore's West first, so obviously PSI highest, now put PSI probe in middle of Jurong Lake also can't hide Liao!
The same person who was questioning the reliability of NEA PSI reading suddenly become a big fan of PSI reading?
Classic example of a shameless spineless despicable troll.
This is a sure sign that the success of the west is making those in other region very jealous. BEWARE!!
I am glad that I dont subscribe to your nonsensical theory of buying the worst unit along river valley is better than buying the best unit in jurong. And its funny to see how forummers like DKSG could FULLY AGREE with it. He should be glad to made the decision to retire his DKSG account to avoid embarrassment.
For those who are interested to read more about "PROPERTY 101" please go to page 69 of this thread.
Honestly whats the point of keeping telling everyone you are smart when you cant even put any numbers and facts on the table to back up your property 101? Is this a case of ALL FART NO SHIT (As what you said before)??
What numbers would you like.
Would you like to know my purchase price, condos, sqft, purchase date, floor level, recent transactions. You first. Since day one you haven't even got the guts to admit you bought JGateway.
Your "facts and numbers" you can't produce because there has been zero resale of J Gateway - not that there is any evidence you could even afford to buy one. If you were that dumb, confirm and chop lost capital since then as last year has been solid downtrend everywhere. Everywhere except between your ears.
I am talking about facts on ground, like finally the "faulty" psi probe in the West cannot hide that the West has highest PSI among all areas in Singapore! If not for the "faulty" probe, the real PSI value for the West most likely already above 160 vs about 70+ in the rest of Singapore!!!!!!!!!!! :tongue4:
The same person who was questioning the reliability of NEA PSI reading suddenly become a big fan of PSI reading?
Classic example of a shameless spineless despicable troll.
This is a sure sign that the success of the west is making those in other region very jealous. BEWARE!!
He panic already lah, buying the west Jurong condo at $1700+ psf and property price now falling, will crash probably within next year or by 2016? Warn him don't buy West he won't listen what can we say?
J Gateway will soon be worth only $1300+ psf by 2016?:miserable:
What numbers would you like.
Would you like to know my purchase price, condos, sqft, purchase date, floor level, recent transactions. You first. Since day one you haven't even got the guts to admit you bought JGateway.
Your "facts and numbers" you can't produce because there has been zero resale of J Gateway - not that there is any evidence you could even afford to buy one. If you were that dumb, confirm and chop lost capital since then as last year has been solid downtrend everywhere. Everywhere except between your ears.
U are one of a kind that is always in denial state or only believe what u want to believe. When the psi is high in Jurong , u would take it that the faulty sensors are working. But if the psi is lower than the rest of Sin, u choose to believe that something is wrong...sensors misplaced something else...
Be open, be it Singapore or foreigners, they tend to go with sentiment, tend to go with growth story and rental prospective. Tell me which of this is against Jurong?
Be sensible, the growth story is intact especially after our PM message on Jld, more jobs will be created in Jurong that's obvious, and the sentiment is excellent in Jurong. Tell me which development sold out in 1 Day??
If u are a real investors, u will go with what I just mention. Don't talk nonsense...that my view.
He panic already lah, buying the west Jurong condo at $1700+ psf and property price now falling, will crash probably within next year or by 2016? Warn him don't buy West he won't listen what can we say?
J Gateway will soon be worth only $1300+ psf by 2016?:miserable:
The "faulty" PSI sensors are "faulty" not because it is really faulty but it is placed in a "faulty" place, may be in the middle of some place in the West where it can only sense mostly clean air except when big haze sweeps around and they can't hide the fact anymore because luckily for most Singaporeans the big haze always hit the West hardest before dissipating to the rest of Singapore! Meanwhile, the central natural reserves PSI sensors must have been placed beside a burning chimney, no wonder natural reserves PSI can be higher than the West most of the time (except when big haze came)! Oh my gosh! :banghead:
Oh another thing, when somebody tries hard to sell you something, be wary, be very very wary! That is why I always make money from my investment! I go against when people trying hard to sell me, regardless of who they are! :moon:
U are one of a kind that is always in denial state or only believe what u want to believe. When the psi is high in Jurong , u would take it that the faulty sensors are working. But if the psi is lower than the rest of Sin, u choose to believe that something is wrong...sensors misplaced something else...
Be open, be it Singapore or foreigners, they tend to go with sentiment, tend to go with growth story and rental prospective. Tell me which of this is against Jurong?
Be sensible, the growth story is intact especially after our PM message on Jld, more jobs will be created in Jurong that's obvious, and the sentiment is excellent in Jurong. Tell me which development sold out in 1 Day??
If u are a real investors, u will go with what I just mention. Don't talk nonsense...that my view.
Patrickstar
17-09-14, 01:17
He still finds it hard to believe that he has been conned by the showflat agent. It beats me why he is always harping on the 100% capital appreciation of caspian, it is as though he believes the same thing is going to happen to his J gateway...lol...tiny minds will always be tiny minds.
What numbers would you like.
Would you like to know my purchase price, condos, sqft, purchase date, floor level, recent transactions. You first. Since day one you haven't even got the guts to admit you bought JGateway.
Your "facts and numbers" you can't produce because there has been zero resale of J Gateway - not that there is any evidence you could even afford to buy one. If you were that dumb, confirm and chop lost capital since then as last year has been solid downtrend everywhere. Everywhere except between your ears.
He still finds it hard to believe that he has been conned by the showflat agent. It beats me why he is always harping on the 100% capital appreciation of caspian, it is as though he believes the same thing is going to happen to his J gateway...lol...tiny minds will always be tiny minds.
If J gateway has 100% price appreciation then it reaches Marina Bay pricing..
which means Marina One at 2600 psf is severely underpriced now.
Patrickstar
17-09-14, 02:50
Be careful coz that carrothead might start educating you A to Z about JLD masterplan just to paint the picture that $3k psf is a possibility for his beloved J gateway :D
If J gateway has 100% price appreciation then it reaches Marina Bay pricing..
which means Marina One at 2600 psf is severely underpriced now.
If J gateway has 100% price appreciation then it reaches Marina Bay pricing..
which means Marina One at 2600 psf is severely underpriced now.
Was invited to the showroom on Sunday, the price ranges from 2100 to 2600 psf. 2 bedrooms is around 2200psf. Is connected by 4 mrt lines, far more potential than J gateway. Which will you pay for? 3000psf for j gateway or 2200psf for marina one?
Never buy into any hype...
It usually doesnt comes thru as developers will be using it to cream off another 10-20% more than what the development is worth, future pricing..
Buy into potential hype before plans are out... at least in this way, if it doestn comes thru, you condo is still value at today's prices and not future pricing...
For Marina One, psf looks good but quantum means that only higher net woth can but this development with TDSR and LTVR...
Never buy into any hype...
It usually doesnt comes thru as developers will be using it to cream off another 10-20% more than what the development is worth, future pricing..
Buy into potential hype before plans are out... at least in this way, if it doestn comes thru, you condo is still value at today's prices and not future pricing...
For Marina One, psf looks good but quantum means that only higher net woth can but this development with TDSR and LTVR...
Nowadays almost every corner in SG has been hyped up. There is only one area I can think of yet to be hyped up - home ground of Minister Khaw.
Nowadays almost every corner in SG has been hyped up. There is only one area I can think of yet to be hyped up - home ground of Minister Khaw.
Actually 9 10 11 totally no hype at all and the hype around marina bay also,die down already lol.... everyone looking at other district like jurong woodlands and other suburban area punggol etc
River Valley almost same price as Ang Mo Kio! What bubble are people are talking about? May be the bubble is right in Punggol, Jurong, Woodlands, Sembawang etc OCR private properties with PRs and foreigners helping to prop up the prices in these areas but nothing has been done to target these areas specifically to solve the "bubble"! :cool-new:
Actually 9 10 11 totally no hype at all and the hype around marina bay also,die down already lol.... everyone looking at other district like jurong woodlands and other suburban area punggol etc
Patrickstar
17-09-14, 23:42
When there is crash, do you expect 99yr Jurong and Woodlands to fall harder or Marina and River Valley?
Actually 9 10 11 totally no hype at all and the hype around marina bay also,die down already lol.... everyone looking at other district like jurong woodlands and other suburban area punggol etc
Actually 9 10 11 totally no hype at all and the hype around marina bay also,die down already lol.... everyone looking at other district like jurong woodlands and other suburban area punggol etc
This is so true. I can kind of understand if people pay 1200 psf for jurong but when it is approaching 1500 psf its probably worthwhile to look at some of the older freehold 9,10,11. Many in river valley still quietly enjoying decent rental yield with low vacancy rate.
When there is crash, do you expect 99yr Jurong and Woodlands to fall harder or Marina and River Valley?
It is not fair to actually lump all Jurong and all Woodlands together.
If there is a crash, entry level housing will still be rather strongly supported - my assumption and guess is because a good proportion bought for own stay (upgrading).
Whereas CCR I am really not sure if people buy for investment mainly or for own stay. Also, in a crash (maybe stimulated by recession), tenants are likely to tighten their purses further and opt for more affordable housing?
Based on affordability (TDSR), if there is a crash, higher cost housing still has a much great distance to fall before equilibrium. Of course, overpriced OCR housing is at the largest risk to begin with. All these few years, I suppose the Govt has been putting in the stress test for buyers to consider. So far the major impact is still on CCR. What if interest rates actually rise? Which segment will be further impacted?
Wait for 2017 if FED projection comes true.
It is not fair to actually lump all Jurong and all Woodlands together.
If there is a crash, entry level housing will still be rather strongly supported - my assumption and guess is because a good proportion bought for own stay (upgrading).
Whereas CCR I am really not sure if people buy for investment mainly or for own stay. Also, in a crash (maybe stimulated by recession), tenants are likely to tighten their purses further and opt for more affordable housing?
Based on affordability (TDSR), if there is a crash, higher cost housing still has a much great distance to fall before equilibrium. Of course, overpriced OCR housing is at the largest risk to begin with. All these few years, I suppose the Govt has been putting in the stress test for buyers to consider. So far the major impact is still on CCR. What if interest rates actually rise? Which segment will be further impacted?
Wait for 2017 if FED projection comes true.
Yellen says summer 2015 possible too. I think very much depends on economic movement. Loans are for 20, 30 years. Need to consider long term.
Patrickstar
18-09-14, 12:29
When interest rates rise, i feel ocr owners will be squeezed the most n have a greater tendency to drop prices. High psf ocr condos in the suburbs like j gateway with no solid price support from other condos around will suffer badly.
It is not fair to actually lump all Jurong and all Woodlands together.
If there is a crash, entry level housing will still be rather strongly supported - my assumption and guess is because a good proportion bought for own stay (upgrading).
Whereas CCR I am really not sure if people buy for investment mainly or for own stay. Also, in a crash (maybe stimulated by recession), tenants are likely to tighten their purses further and opt for more affordable housing?
Based on affordability (TDSR), if there is a crash, higher cost housing still has a much great distance to fall before equilibrium. Of course, overpriced OCR housing is at the largest risk to begin with. All these few years, I suppose the Govt has been putting in the stress test for buyers to consider. So far the major impact is still on CCR. What if interest rates actually rise? Which segment will be further impacted?
When interest rates rise, i feel ocr owners will be squeezed the most n have a greater tendency to drop prices. High psf ocr condos in the suburbs like j gateway with no solid price support from other condos around will suffer badly.
That's why what you mentioned is unfair. High psf ocr condos are the exception rather than the norm. Most OCR condos are mass-priced and owner occupied. Not likely to be greatly affected in most cases.
Low risk low gain low losses, high risk high gain high losses.
Patrickstar
18-09-14, 15:31
For J gateway, it is an anomaly where the JLD sales pitch trumped common sense n logic. It is not even a case of high risk high gain, i think many in this forum saw from the very start that gains from this project would be dismal coz a gain equal to that of Caspian n Centris is next to impossible.
That's why what you mentioned is unfair. High psf ocr condos are the exception rather than the norm. Most OCR condos are mass-priced and owner occupied. Not likely to be greatly affected in most cases.
Low risk low gain low losses, high risk high gain high losses.
For J gateway, it is an anomaly where the JLD sales pitch trumped common sense n logic. It is not even a case of high risk high gain, i think many in this forum saw from the very start that gains from this project would be dismal coz a gain equal to that of Caspian n Centris is next to impossible.
By high risk high gain high loss, I am referring to the CCR condos.
JG is an exception rather than the rule like I mentioned. Its high risk, uncertain gains, possibly huge losses in my opinion. But the buyers might have seen something we haven't.
Nonetheless, I do expect the rental demand for it to be strong. It's just unlikely to match the expectations of the investors. My opinion only.
CCR like Orchard at only S$2000+ psf where got high risk?
Actually hor, those OCR >$1200 psf is very very high risk indeed, especially they are just 99 years lease hold only! Every year gone, depreciate by 1.1%... :scared-1:
By high risk high gain high loss, I am referring to the CCR condos.
JG is an exception rather than the rule like I mentioned. Its high risk, uncertain gains, possibly huge losses in my opinion. But the buyers might have seen something we haven't.
Nonetheless, I do expect the rental demand for it to be strong. It's just unlikely to match the expectations of the investors. My opinion only.
CCR like Orchard at only S$2000+ psf where got high risk?
Actually hor, those OCR >$1200 psf is very the ry high risk indeed, especially they are just 99 years lease hold only! Every year gone, depreciate by 1.1%... :scared-1:
You forgot to include at least three other things.
1. Extra property tax paid for CCR.
2. Extra interests paid for the 2kpsf property.
3. Opportunity costs forgone because funds locked up in 1 property.
In a growing market, the strategy for CCR made some sense as price growth overrode the costs. In a flat or declining market , the pains are very glaring.
We don't have to be concerned with all those you mentioned, just need to remember 1 thing: 99 years leasehold means that you will never benefit from the 1.1% depreciation every year!
If you want to save on property tax and interests, don't buy property, pay rent loh!
You forgot to include at least three other things.
1. Extra property tax paid for CCR.
2. Extra interests paid for the 2kpsf property.
3. Opportunity costs forgone because funds locked up in 1 property.
In a growing market, the strategy for CCR made some sense as price growth overrode the costs. In a flat or declining market , the pains are very glaring.
We don't have to be concerned with all those you mentioned, just need to remember 1 thing: 99 years leasehold means that you will never benefit from the 1.1% depreciation every year!
If you want to save on property tax and interests, don't buy property, pay rent loh!
I support freehold if the price is right. Don't get me wrong.
But I also can understand if owning 2 leaseholds allow one to be absolved from paying either rent or mortgage.
whether a FH or LH, imagine, if you buy this FH be it condo or landed and then sell in 5 years time, does it really matter? the pricing depends on sentiment at that time, growth story of the location and rental prospective and so on...
the answer is pretty clear, there are many scenario but not necessary u don't gain from it.
if u buy and keep more than 10-15 years, yes, then probably there is some effect on pricing, but still it depends. So, don't be too sure! If not LH project will never sell well....
We don't have to be concerned with all those you mentioned, just need to remember 1 thing: 99 years leasehold means that you will never benefit from the 1.1% depreciation every year!
If you want to save on property tax and interests, don't buy property, pay rent loh!
What is the difference between owning 2 leaseholds and 2 freeholds? Not much difference now, but this will definitely change 20 years from now, when there are abundance supply of 99 years leasehold having less than 60 years lease left...........................
I support freehold if the price is right. Don't get me wrong.
But I also can understand if owning 2 leaseholds allow one to be absolved from paying either rent or mortgage.
Patrickstar
19-09-14, 00:10
LH are selling well because the horizon of these investors is short term. No agent marketing a LH project will project returns for a project 20yrs down the road. A property is worth as much as the land it sits on and to me 99yr leasehold land in a prime area could easily be worth more than fh land in far flung outskirt areas so in this sense, we can't underestimate LH. If comparing fh n lh pty in the same area, i think the choice is obvious what to buy. Just look at southaven 1 n 2, these two projects are the best comparison for fh/999yr n 99yr LH.
whether a FH or LH, imagine, if you buy this FH be it condo or landed and then sell in 5 years time, does it really matter? the pricing depends on sentiment at that time, growth story of the location and rental prospective and so on...
the answer is pretty clear, there are many scenario but not necessary u don't gain from it.
if u buy and keep more than 10-15 years, yes, then probably there is some effect on pricing, but still it depends. So, don't be too sure! If not LH project will never sell well....
you already have your answer....time horizon is the key...not FH or LH, if I know I want to sell in 5yrs time, why should I fork out additional 20-30% (in the same location) which is an opportunity cost! in the same time period, imagine you buy FH at 2mil, sell at 2.3mil, or u buy LH at 1.7mil, sell at 2mil, so? the gap between FH or LH could be more than what I have illustrated here. pay extra for what?...... LH selling well, got ppl buy means got ppl sell...do you want to buy a FH project which is not selling well??? or a LH project which is selling well??? again, time horizon is the key...
LH are selling well because the horizon of these investors is short term. No agent marketing a LH project will project returns for a project 20yrs down the road. A property is worth as much as the land it sits on and to me 99yr leasehold land in a prime area could easily be worth more than fh land in far flung outskirt areas so in this sense, we can't underestimate LH. If comparing fh n lh pty in the same area, i think the choice is obvious what to buy. Just look at southaven 1 n 2, these two projects are the best comparison for fh/999yr n 99yr LH.
walkthetiger
19-09-14, 00:27
you already have your answer....time horizon is the key...not FH or LH, if I know I want to sell in 5yrs time, why should I fork out additional 20-30% (in the same location) which is an opportunity cost! LH selling well, got ppl buy means got ppl sell...do you want to buy a FH project which is not selling well??? or a LH project which is selling well??? again, time horizon is the key...
It is the "bull run" that help to push all price a new level, and it happens by some chances only. It happened just a few times in sg properties history...Without it, capital gain is very very slow.
How many times in sg properties history, do you see rental yield was like the recently few years ago....
Patrickstar
19-09-14, 01:01
Time horizon is over simplistic. Many factors come into play. Never buy a pty in an area where prices are at resistance or past resistance levels with other ptys still lagging behind. Market conditions like whether it is an impending bear or bull market is also important. The worst kind of buying is paying for a LH pty at past resistance level at the start of a bear run. The greatest difference between caspian n j gateway is in the pty cycle, caspian was priced at the bottom during the financial crisis just before the bull run n j gateway was launched at the end of the bull run at the start of the bear run.
you already have your answer....time horizon is the key...not FH or LH, if I know I want to sell in 5yrs time, why should I fork out additional 20-30% (in the same location) which is an opportunity cost! in the same time period, imagine you buy FH at 2mil, sell at 2.3mil, or u buy LH at 1.7mil, sell at 2mil, so? the gap between FH or LH could be more than what I have illustrated here. pay extra for what?...... LH selling well, got ppl buy means got ppl sell...do you want to buy a FH project which is not selling well??? or a LH project which is selling well??? again, time horizon is the key...
property cycle is not by chance....that's all I want to say. diff ppl diff views. happy investing...:)
It is the "bull run" that help to push all price a new level, and it happens by some chances only. It happened just a few times in sg properties history...Without it, capital gain is very very slow.
How many times in sg properties history, do you see rental yield was like the recently few years ago....
didn't I say many factors which can affect the property price and time horizon is key? anyway, my view is shared...cheers :)
can you look forward? no I don't think you can...what make you different from looking at history to predict future? end of bull run? its part of a cycle but which part of it right now, don't be too sure....only history can give you this answer when you look back at the chart. most ppl are like that. that's why top earners form the top 20%. :), they see differently as well.
Time horizon is over simplistic. Many factors come into play. Never buy a pty in an area where prices are at resistance or past resistance levels with other ptys still lagging behind. Market conditions like whether it is an impending bear or bull market is also important. The worst kind of buying is paying for a LH pty at past resistance level at the start of a bear run. The greatest difference between caspian n j gateway is in the pty cycle, caspian was priced at the bottom during the financial crisis just before the bull run n j gateway was launched at the end of the bull run at the start of the bear run.
Patrickstar
19-09-14, 01:25
Do you know what it means by buying low and selling high? Sounds simple right? But i can tell you not many people understand this. Human nature is such that they will be more inclined to buy at peak pricing thinking it will go higher as opposed to buying at the bottom as they always feel downward pressure is greater. Why would people want to pay $1700 psf for a pty in an area when surrounding projects are averaging below $1k psf? Just compare those flocking to the caspian showflat at launch n those who flock to j gateway showflat at launch n you understand human psychology better. Btw top earners like warren buffet are always buying low n selling high coz buying at the lowest point requires more guts than buying at the peak.
didn't I say many factors which can affect the property price and time horizon is key? anyway, my view is shared...cheers :)
can you look forward? no I don't think you can...what make you different from looking at history to predict future? end of bull run? its part of a cycle but which part of it right now, don't be too sure....only history can give you this answer when you look back at the chart. most ppl are like that. that's why top earners form the top 20%. :), they see differently as well.
walkthetiger
19-09-14, 01:29
property cycle is not by chance....that's all I want to say. diff ppl diff views. happy investing...:)
Agree too, if you understand how it happens...you will probably know how to spot it as well
It's a pity that u still do not get it, but I'm going to say it once more....u only know that u buy at the peak when u look back. Just like when I miss the boat on caspian with your kind of thinking. While a 1100sft 3 bedded cost about 700k plus minus for eg, at the same time a 10min walk down one mrt station, the Parc oasis only about 400k plus minus. Why buy almost 80% more? eg only for illustration...
At that time, u could be thinking, shit I am buying at the peak....but now 2014 when u look back, what happen to your peak then? This doesn't alway happen this way, but as I said, only history can proof u right or wrong. Don't keep harping on this 1700psf, broaden your horizon. Have u not experience enough? Time will tell, if u have not invest, then bless those who have guts to do It! By the way, I don't even have chance to view it due to the crowd on first day, and anyway, I also don't hv the guts to do it haha......bless them...
Do you know what it means by buying low and selling high? Sounds simple right? But i can tell you not many people understand this. Human nature is such that they will be more inclined to buy at peak pricing thinking it will go higher as opposed to buying at the bottom as they always feel downward pressure is greater. Why would people want to pay $1700 psf for a pty in an area when surrounding projects are averaging below $1k psf? Just compare those flocking to the caspian showflat at launch n those who flock to j gateway showflat at launch n you understand human psychology better. Btw top earners like warren buffet are always buying low n selling high coz buying at the lowest point requires more guts than buying at the peak.
property cycle is not by chance....that's all I want to say. diff ppl diff views. happy investing...:)
agree - when you see taxi uncle queueing overnight you know it's time to get out - or at least not to commit to anything new.
Further opportunities coming for those with patience and guts.
FH or LH, 能捉老鼠的猫，就是好猫。
Both have their pros and cons. Depends on what you use them for.
agree - when you see taxi uncle queueing overnight you know it's time to get out - or at least not to commit to anything new.
Further opportunities coming for those with patience and guts.
Honestly have not been seeing "taxi uncle" in the queue for some time since 2011. How can they afford it now???
Patrickstar
19-09-14, 13:36
When i say buying at the peak, i was't talking on hindsight. You obviously don't understand the meaning of resistance level. When average transacted prices in an area is less than $1k psf and you pay $700psf more for a project there, that project is selling at way past resistance level which is extremely high risk. From a pty investment perspective, what is the sense in paying $700psf more for a pty in an area when all other ptys costing $700psf less in the area will rise as well when pty mkt goes up?
It's a pity that u still do not get it, but I'm going to say it once more....u only know that u buy at the peak when u look back. Just like when I miss the boat on caspian with your kind of thinking. While a 1100sft 3 bedded cost about 700k plus minus for eg, at the same time a 10min walk down one mrt station, the Parc oasis only about 400k plus minus. Why buy almost 80% more? eg only for illustration...
At that time, u could be thinking, shit I am buying at the peak....but now 2014 when u look back, what happen to your peak then? This doesn't alway happen this way, but as I said, only history can proof u right or wrong. Don't keep harping on this 1700psf, broaden your horizon. Have u not experience enough? Time will tell, if u have not invest, then bless those who have guts to do It! By the way, I don't even have chance to view it due to the crowd on first day, and anyway, I also don't hv the guts to do it haha......bless them...
Like................:)
FH or LH, 能捉老鼠的猫，就是好猫。
Both have their pros and cons. Depends on what you use them for.
LH projects sell because of quantum being absolutely cheaper, just like this is why now some CCR private properties $PSF even cheaper than OCR!
As if everybody thinks they can sell their 99years LH property in 5 years time so LH is fine? That seems to be the mentality of almost all LH property owners! So now, once everybody wake up to the idea and don't want to be the "carrot head" to buy your property once they are >20 and especially 30 years old, who you going to sell to?
How about if you are stuck for 30 years, every time time economy is bad can't sell, when economy starts to be good and your property prices start to recover govt give you CMs, so you get stuck another 30 years. By the time 40 years later, you try to sell your 99LH but nobody want to buy because lease less than 70 years, so you get stuck again.
You pass to your child and before your child can even die in the house, viola, 99 years time up and your child have to be homeless as he needs to return to the govt! Think for your child before you even splunge >$1.5m on a 3BR 99years LH property NOW that will become $0 in your child's life time!
whether a FH or LH, imagine, if you buy this FH be it condo or landed and then sell in 5 years time, does it really matter? the pricing depends on sentiment at that time, growth story of the location and rental prospective and so on...
the answer is pretty clear, there are many scenario but not necessary u don't gain from it.
if u buy and keep more than 10-15 years, yes, then probably there is some effect on pricing, but still it depends. So, don't be too sure! If not LH project will never sell well....
Even if you buy leasehold when you are 30 and have a child at 35, the child will have to live to 90 years to see the lease expire. Shouldn't he or she be able to get a hdb or another few leasehold?
Do you think your grandchild will want to live in your century old mansion?
LH projects sell because of quantum being absolutely cheaper, just like this is why now some CCR private properties $PSF even cheaper than OCR!
As if everybody thinks they can sell their 99years LH property in 5 years time so LH is fine? That seems to be the mentality of almost all LH property owners! So now, once everybody wake up to the idea and don't want to be the "carrot head" to buy your property once they are >20 and especially 30 years old, who you going to sell to?
How about if you are stuck for 30 years, every time time economy is bad can't sell, when economy starts to be good and your property prices start to recover govt give you CMs, so you get stuck another 30 years. By the time 40 years later, you try to sell your 99LH but nobody want to buy because lease less than 70 years, so you get stuck again.
You pass to your child and before your child can even die in the house, viola, 99 years time up and your child have to be homeless as he needs to return to the govt! Think for your child before you even splunge >$1.5m on a 3BR 99years LH property NOW that will become $0 in your child's life time!
you are really a clown in disguise living in your own world. I don't need to go into it any more as just want to share my view. enough said...:)
LH projects sell because of quantum being absolutely cheaper, just like this is why now some CCR private properties $PSF even cheaper than OCR!
As if everybody thinks they can sell their 99years LH property in 5 years time so LH is fine? That seems to be the mentality of almost all LH property owners! So now, once everybody wake up to the idea and don't want to be the "carrot head" to buy your property once they are >20 and especially 30 years old, who you going to sell to?
How about if you are stuck for 30 years, every time time economy is bad can't sell, when economy starts to be good and your property prices start to recover govt give you CMs, so you get stuck another 30 years. By the time 40 years later, you try to sell your 99LH but nobody want to buy because lease less than 70 years, so you get stuck again.
You pass to your child and before your child can even die in the house, viola, 99 years time up and your child have to be homeless as he needs to return to the govt! Think for your child before you even splunge >$1.5m on a 3BR 99years LH property NOW that will become $0 in your child's life time!
Why pay so much for a 99years LH NOW when you need to pay again another inflation-adjusted figure for another 99 years LH 90+ years later? It is not like you need to pay a lot more for a FH vs 99 years LH, just 15-20% more only now! The gap will likely increase a lot more in future when sellers realize they are being short-changed for selling for such small premium for their FH vs a 99 years LH. FH properties will also just get lesser and lesser.................
My grandchild will definitely not have any issue with century old mansion when they get it for free from me and will be worth a lot more by then despite being century old already,
BUT your grandchild will definitely be cursing you if you leave them a 99 years FH property that they will get evicted when your 99 years LH property's lease ended and they are still alive in this world.................................... They will be complaining why you so short-sighted and cannot just pay 15-20% more to let them own that property forever so that they can pass down again to their child and again their grandchild and all of them many many generations later thanking you for leaving behind a legacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even if you buy leasehold when you are 30 and have a child at 35, the child will have to live to 90 years to see the lease expire. Shouldn't he or she be able to get a hdb or another few leasehold?
Do you think your grandchild will want to live in your century old mansion?
Clown?
Think people here have brain to know who is the real clown here........
When you have no good reason to rebuke, you start labelling other people "clown"............
Let me tell you, the real clown is the one dreaming in their own world, thinking that their 99 years leasehold properties still will have value >30 years down the road and dreaming that there will always be carrot-head to buy over their aging and lease running-out 99 years leasehold properties................
you are really a clown in disguise living in your own world. I don't need to go into it any more as just want to share my view. enough said...:)
LH projects sell because of quantum being absolutely cheaper, just like this is why now some CCR private properties $PSF even cheaper than OCR!
As if everybody thinks they can sell their 99years LH property in 5 years time so LH is fine? That seems to be the mentality of almost all LH property owners! So now, once everybody wake up to the idea and don't want to be the "carrot head" to buy your property once they are >20 and especially 30 years old, who you going to sell to?
How about if you are stuck for 30 years, every time time economy is bad can't sell, when economy starts to be good and your property prices start to recover govt give you CMs, so you get stuck another 30 years. By the time 40 years later, you try to sell your 99LH but nobody want to buy because lease less than 70 years, so you get stuck again.
You pass to your child and before your child can even die in the house, viola, 99 years time up and your child have to be homeless as he needs to return to the govt! Think for your child before you even splunge >$1.5m on a 3BR 99years LH property NOW that will become $0 in your child's life time!
Correction:
BUT your grandchild will definitely be cursing you if you leave them a 99 years LH property that they will get evicted when your 99 years LH property's lease ended and they are still alive in this world....................................
Why pay so much for a 99years LH NOW when you need to pay again another inflation-adjusted figure for another 99 years LH 90+ years later? It is not like you need to pay a lot more for a FH vs 99 years LH, just 15-20% more only now! The gap will likely increase a lot more in future when sellers realize they are being short-changed for selling for such small premium for their FH vs a 99 years LH. FH properties will also just get lesser and lesser.................
My grandchild will definitely not have any issue with century old mansion when they get it for free from me and will be worth a lot more by then despite being century old already,
BUT your grandchild will definitely be cursing you if you leave them a 99 years FH property that they will get evicted when your 99 years LH property's lease ended and they are still alive in this world.................................... They will be complaining why you so short-sighted and cannot just pay 15-20% more to let them own that property forever so that they can pass down again to their child and again their grandchild and all of them many many generations later thanking you for leaving behind a legacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Patrickstar
19-09-14, 22:17
Moral is buy LH when there is no succession planning and buy FH if you need to pass down assets to future generation.
Correction:
BUT your grandchild will definitely be cursing you if you leave them a 99 years LH property that they will get evicted when your 99 years LH property's lease ended and they are still alive in this world....................................
I am talking about LIVE in the century old mansion... Most likely it will just be sold and cashed out.
But I believe in training the children to fish for their own mansion. My parents gave me none. Archachon parents also. My father almost sold the only HDB we had in the family at one point. Because of the lack, we are able to achieve more in life subsequently. I have a mix of FH and LH. More important is the price point, rental yield and location. My opinion only.
Give a man a mansion, and you spoil him for life. Teach a man how to hold his own, and he will do well wherever he goes.
ya, leave all your FH for your children and grandchildren to sell and cash out. see who is cursing during that time...hahaaa...this is not clown then what? so it is still within your lifespan 30yrs if u are lucky or when you just gone, they sell so that you leave in peace maybe.......who is holding LH for more than 30yrs as investment. If you can find one in this forum, I say maybe your point is valid for that moment. For own stay, then is a different call. And in the same district, can you point to me that the gap of LH and FH is narrowing? Compare same location la. why don't u just compare Iskandar and Jurong? This one not clown then what? look at your rubbish....wa kao...I shouldn't be saying more. pardon me.
Why pay so much for a 99years LH NOW when you need to pay again another inflation-adjusted figure for another 99 years LH 90+ years later? It is not like you need to pay a lot more for a FH vs 99 years LH, just 15-20% more only now! The gap will likely increase a lot more in future when sellers realize they are being short-changed for selling for such small premium for their FH vs a 99 years LH. FH properties will also just get lesser and lesser.................
My grandchild will definitely not have any issue with century old mansion when they get it for free from me and will be worth a lot more by then despite being century old already,
BUT your grandchild will definitely be cursing you if you leave them a 99 years FH property that they will get evicted when your 99 years LH property's lease ended and they are still alive in this world.................................... They will be complaining why you so short-sighted and cannot just pay 15-20% more to let them own that property forever so that they can pass down again to their child and again their grandchild and all of them many many generations later thanking you for leaving behind a legacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Theory is always theory, nice to hear or preach but many don't practise it............
Look around at all those influential and/or rich and you will know what I mean..........
Don't even need to look overseas, just look in Singapore also many examples which do not practise what you say, and they also prove that what you said is not always true because many of these 2nd generations went on to scale greater heights and created a legacy much much greater than what their fathers have achieved despite being given the mansion/fish to start with, and they may not have achieved what they have now without that old mansion/fish to begin with.......................
I am talking about LIVE in the century old mansion... Most likely it will just be sold and cashed out.
But I believe in training the children to fish for their own mansion. My parents gave me none. Archachon parents also. My father almost sold the only HDB we had in the family at one point. Because of the lack, we are able to achieve more in life subsequently. I have a mix of FH and LH. More important is the price point, rental yield and location. My opinion only.
Give a man a mansion, and you spoil him for life. Teach a man how to hold his own, and he will do well wherever he goes.
like!
this is the right teaching.....let them earn and appreciate things in life. but not many ppl see it this way especially those born with silver spoon. BUt they have forgotten that they come with nothing and go with nothing....
wrong teaching leads to only one thing....up wrong below also wrong. :2cents:
I am talking about LIVE in the century old mansion... Most likely it will just be sold and cashed out.
But I believe in training the children to fish for their own mansion. My parents gave me none. Archachon parents also. My father almost sold the only HDB we had in the family at one point. Because of the lack, we are able to achieve more in life subsequently. I have a mix of FH and LH. More important is the price point, rental yield and location. My opinion only.
Give a man a mansion, and you spoil him for life. Teach a man how to hold his own, and he will do well wherever he goes.
I agree with your idea. Are you going to donate all your assets to charitable organization when you passes on?
I am talking about LIVE in the century old mansion... Most likely it will just be sold and cashed out.
But I believe in training the children to fish for their own mansion. My parents gave me none. Archachon parents also. My father almost sold the only HDB we had in the family at one point. Because of the lack, we are able to achieve more in life subsequently. I have a mix of FH and LH. More important is the price point, rental yield and location. My opinion only.
Give a man a mansion, and you spoil him for life. Teach a man how to hold his own, and he will do well wherever he goes.
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 00:20
Those arguing whether to invest in FH n LH are missing out on one vital aspect, ownership. In FH condos owners collectively own the piece of land forever, in 99yr LH, the govt leases you the land for only 99yr.
Moral is buy LH when there is no succession planning and buy FH if you need to pass down assets to future generation.
Agree. If u have strong Asian thinking u will want to leave loads for ur generation to come. I always tell my girl she's getting nothing from me once she turns 21. In fact I am looking for her to bring me to holidays etc then as I have done so for her while she's dependent on me~
Theory is always theory, nice to hear or preach but many don't practise it............
Look around at all those influential and/or rich and you will know what I mean..........
Don't even need to look overseas, just look in Singapore also many examples which do not practise what you say, and they also prove that what you said is not always true because many of these 2nd generations went on to scale greater heights and created a legacy much much greater than what their fathers have achieved despite being given the mansion/fish to start with, and they may not have achieved what they have now without that old mansion/fish to begin with.......................
I have to agree with you for the fact that what u r doing is in fact the norm here. My friends work very hard to provide for their kids. They skimped on themselves but doesn't blink on any amount spent on the kids. I get chided when I told some that when I go to a restaurant I dun tell my gal she can order whatever she likes from the menu.
Sure the mainstream is like that but I don't see why I should succumb to mainstream pressure. If every parent stop behaving that competitive our education system will never become stressful.
I don't intend to leave things for my daughter that's why I concentrate on living now - having a balance between quality of life and having just enough down the road for my own retirement in future.
LH or FH has it's own value depending on what your goals/needs are.
Moral is buy LH when there is no succession planning and buy FH if you need to pass down assets to future generation.
The issue is not succession planning but rather capital preservation.
What should a buyer who is shopping around buy *now* in this market? Scarcity and lack of supply points towards buying FH now as the premium for a freehold equivalent in many areas is narrow. When market is flooded with supply of LH, FH should weather the storm better in the short, medium and long term.
I agree with your idea. Are you going to donate all your assets to charitable organization when you passes on?
For me the main purpose in investing is to ensure I don't be a burden to kids when old. Most probably might need to cash out one or two when older due to sickness or parents sickness. Children education as well. Who knows how long we can live anyway?
Maybe if still have leftover when I go then I pass some to the next generation and donate some. Right now is just too insecure to say if one can get there.
More importantly, cover my own insurance and bills and children education. My children should neither feel entitled nor complain about anything left for them.
The issue is not succession planning but rather capital preservation.
What should a buyer who is shopping around buy *now* in this market? Scarcity and lack of supply points towards buying FH now as the premium for a freehold equivalent in many areas is narrow. When market is flooded with supply of LH, FH should weather the storm better in the short, medium and long term.
Some focus on the financial value, some focus on other aspects of values, and some focus on value creation within value.
Not all see eye to eye. Neither do we have to. It's great that there is diversity of views.
walkthetiger
20-09-14, 09:43
Theory is always theory, nice to hear or preach but many don't practise it............
Look around at all those influential and/or rich and you will know what I mean..........
Don't even need to look overseas, just look in Singapore also many examples which do not practise what you say, and they also prove that what you said is not always true because many of these 2nd generations went on to scale greater heights and created a legacy much much greater than what their fathers have achieved despite being given the mansion/fish to start with, and they may not have achieved what they have now without that old mansion/fish to begin with.......................
If a sale man want to sells me two products, one will last for 1 yr, another will last for 2 years. I will go after 2 years.
I will buy FH for sure, if the price is right, coz it has a better selling point. Even if myself and children don't need to hold that house for over 100 years, that FH status is a choice for my family's ownership.
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 09:52
I think buying FH or LH is not just about property values. People are prepared to pay top dollar for LH properties these days as the location gives them a better lifestyle. A lot of FH ptys lose out to LH in terms of location n convenience but of course there are always exceptions.
If a sale man want to sells me two products, one will last for 1 yr, another will last for 2 years. I will go after 2 years.
I will buy FH for sure, if the price is right, coz it has a better selling point. Even if myself and children don't need to hold that house for over 100 years, that FH status is a choice for my family's ownership.
walkthetiger
20-09-14, 10:23
I think buying FH or LH is not just about property values. People are prepared to pay top dollar for LH properties these days as the location gives them a better lifestyle. A lot of FH ptys lose out to LH in terms of location n convenience but of course there are always exceptions.
If those mentioned prime locations come with FH, I will surely l go for FH as a better sell point. But it will surely be at a incredible high price, because there aren’t much around, coz the gov needs those prime land back to them for re-development from time to time...
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 10:32
Duplicate post
If a sale man want to sells me two products, one will last for 1 yr, another will last for 2 years. I will go after 2 years.
I will buy FH for sure, if the price is right, coz it has a better selling point. Even if myself and children don't need to hold that house for over 100 years, that FH status is a choice for my family's ownership.
The issue is not succession planning but rather capital preservation.
What should a buyer who is shopping around buy *now* in this market? Scarcity and lack of supply points towards buying FH now as the premium for a freehold equivalent in many areas is narrow. When market is flooded with supply of LH, FH should weather the storm better in the short, medium and long term.
On hindsight, the FH may not weather the storm better in a really long term especially inherently case of an collective sale. If your LH development has passed say 50 years most owners will probably be happy with little resistance to agree to a collective sale.
Whereas for a FH property even if the property is really older and not that well maintained there'll be plenty of people who will rather just hold on to their units. In the long term the FH condo estate being not well maintained may not really be valued more then its newer LH neighbour?
Some focus on the financial value, some focus on other aspects of values, and some focus on value creation within value.
Not all see eye to eye. Neither do we have to. It's great that there is diversity of views.
Like! That's what a forum is for mah. Discussing and sharing differing views and opinion :)
Allthepies
20-09-14, 11:34
U paid an upfront premium for the freehold unit...so there is really not much differences between leasehold and freehold...
i.e. for the same price u get a larger leasehold unit than freehold --- higher quality of life?
i.e. for the same price u get a better location for leasehold than freehold --- higher quality of life?
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 12:07
At the end of the day, it boils down to whether people are comfortable remaining as tenants or they prefer to be owners. LH owners are all tenants and FH owners truly have ownership of the land n pty they own.
If it makes u feel better to pay higher for that longer ownership, then just do it.....and by the way, if govt want to take back for redevelopment, LH or FH doesn't make any difference....:) so u call this truly Owned?? Anyway different prospective....let it be :)
At the end of the day, it boils down to whether people are comfortable remaining as tenants or they prefer to be owners. LH owners are all tenants and FH owners truly have ownership of the land n pty they own.
Those arguing whether to invest in FH n LH are missing out on one vital aspect, ownership. In FH condos owners collectively own the piece of land forever, in 99yr LH, the govt leases you the land for only 99yr.
Stop fantasizing and romanticizing of your FH theory.
If FH property is about owning it FOREVER, then technically speaking NO ONE will be selling FH property in the market.
I think the most important aspect in investment property is that, Tenant doesnt care if its FH or LH property, when comes to property its all about location.
PS. Dont let the troll fool you into believe that Location is all about CCR.
CCR like Orchard at only S$2000+ psf where got high risk?
Actually hor, those OCR >$1200 psf is very very high risk indeed, especially they are just 99 years lease hold only! Every year gone, depreciate by 1.1%... :scared-1:
Correction. CCR property already selling >$4000psf.
Perhaps you been living in the wrong side of CCR for too long.
When interest rates rise, i feel ocr owners will be squeezed the most n have a greater tendency to drop prices. High psf ocr condos in the suburbs like j gateway with no solid price support from other condos around will suffer badly.
Stop talking nonsense in this forum.
Property around JLD are supported by strong rental demand and high rental yield. And this are FACTS which one can look at transaction record. So if interest rate rises, landlord will still be above water and they will have no problem servicing their mortgage.
On the other hand, if you look at CCR property that is above $3m in quantum and even landed property most are commanding very lousy rental yield of <2%. And again, this is supported by FACTS which one can check transaction record.
If you want to talk about what you "feel" its better that you also back up with FACTS rather than telling us fairytale
What numbers would you like.
Would you like to know my purchase price, condos, sqft, purchase date, floor level, recent transactions. You first. Since day one you haven't even got the guts to admit you bought JGateway.
Your "facts and numbers" you can't produce because there has been zero resale of J Gateway - not that there is any evidence you could even afford to buy one. If you were that dumb, confirm and chop lost capital since then as last year has been solid downtrend everywhere. Everywhere except between your ears.
EBD, stop dancing around in circles because it will make you look ridicules
Best Street Worst Street property 101?
Buying the worst unit in River Valley is better than buying the BEST unit in Jurong?
Thoss interested can go read EBD property 101 on page 69 of this thread.
Show us the numbers to back up what you said instead of ALL FART and NO SHIT (EBD)
Stop talking nonsense in this forum.
Property around JLD are supported by strong rental demand and high rental yield. And this are FACTS which one can look at transaction record. So if interest rate rises, landlord will still be above water and they will have no problem servicing their mortgage.
On the other hand, if you look at CCR property that is above $3m in quantum and even landed property most are commanding very lousy rental yield of <2%. And again, this is supported by FACTS which one can check transaction record.
If you want to talk about what you "feel" its better that you also back up with FACTS rather than telling us fairytale
I also agree high rental demand for Jurong gateway, based on my knowledge of the rental currently and many OCR property owners are not so bad, because they can hold even with drop of 20% , don't forget we only loan 60% for 2nd unit , after garment imposed the measures 3 years ago😃
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 14:31
Did you say "high rental yield"...ROTFL....I am still recovering from your hilarious interpretation of rental yield by using 2009 property price to determine 2014 rental yield. Please tell us what rental yield you expect to get for your J gateway unit that you deem as high. Do us a favour by not cracking us up again :D
Stop talking nonsense in this forum.
Property around JLD are supported by strong rental demand and high rental yield. And this are FACTS which one can look at transaction record. So if interest rate rises, landlord will still be above water and they will have no problem servicing their mortgage.
On the other hand, if you look at CCR property that is above $3m in quantum and even landed property most are commanding very lousy rental yield of <2%. And again, this is supported by FACTS which one can check transaction record.
If you want to talk about what you "feel" its better that you also back up with FACTS rather than telling us fairytale
Did you say "high rental yield"...ROTFL....I am still recovering from your hilarious interpretation of rental yield by using 2009 property price to determine 2014 rental yield. Please tell us what rental yield you expect to get for your J gateway unit that you deem as high. Do us a favour by not cracking us up again :D
haha..in 2009-Jul2014, my west side 3rms pc rented out at 3.8K and just renewed on Jul at 4.2K with 10% increment so do you expect JG rental to be lower than mine with the MRT station just a stone's throw away :drinking_coffee_ico? Think deeper...bro.....:hornybastard: !!!
Please do not make it like the government will short-change you when they take back your land for redevelopment!!! They will pay you market rates!
The market rate of a 99 years Leasehold is that of a new 99-years Leasehold property * (number of years of lease left / 99) and so obviously that 99 years Leasehold property has significantly much lower market value!
And obviously, property prices is a matter of supply and demand. With government taking back FH for redevelopment and turning them into leasehold, you will expect FH properties to become less and less 100 years from now while 99 years LH properties will keep increasing! The law of supply and demand tells us that as time goes on, the premium of FH properties vs 99-years LH properties will definitely increase!
If it makes u feel better to pay higher for that longer ownership, then just do it.....and by the way, if govt want to take back for redevelopment, LH or FH doesn't make any difference....:) so u call this truly Owned?? Anyway different prospective....let it be :)
Talk of collective sale? Think again!
If you have a 99-year Leasehold properties with 50 years left, you think developers will buy from you at a new 99-years LH property price? No right! Since the developers need to top up another 49 years lease, the more expensive a new 99-years LH property costs, the less they will pay for your 50 years remaining lease!
The above further re-enforces the fact that better buy FH if you can afford it because now the premium is just 15-20% only! I won't be surprise that 100 years from now, the premium of a FH property could be >100% of a 99-years LH property!
On hindsight, the FH may not weather the storm better in a really long term especially inherently case of an collective sale. If your LH development has passed say 50 years most owners will probably be happy with little resistance to agree to a collective sale.
Whereas for a FH property even if the property is really older and not that well maintained there'll be plenty of people who will rather just hold on to their units. In the long term the FH condo estate being not well maintained may not really be valued more then its newer LH neighbour?
Ringo, you must be fantasizing again.....
Your JLD all full of 99 years leasehold properties only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a poor thing!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait till neck long long for your property prices to increase and then you have to hand over FREE OF CHARGE to the government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hurt:
Tell you honestly, you being a 99-years leasehold property owner is just a tenant for 99-years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all, and that is a real fact and the truth, nothing but the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop fantasizing and romanticizing of your FH theory.
If FH property is about owning it FOREVER, then technically speaking NO ONE will be selling FH property in the market.
I think the most important aspect in investment property is that, Tenant doesnt care if its FH or LH property, when comes to property its all about location.
PS. Dont let the troll fool you into believe that Location is all about CCR.
No wonder you will pay >$1700 psf for JGateway since you keep thinking CCR property all selling at >$4000 psf! Oh gosh! Won't want to argue with a stupid idiot! Ok ok, let's just say we all agree with you that JGateway is worth >$3000 psf! Now CCR properties should be worth >$9000 psf! Hip hip hooray!
Correction. CCR property already selling >$4000psf.
Perhaps you been living in the wrong side of CCR for too long.
No wonder you will pay >$1700 psf for JGateway since you keep thinking CCR property all selling at >$4000 psf! Oh gosh! Won't want to argue with a stupid idiot! Ok ok, let's just say we all agree with you that JGateway is worth >$3000 psf! Now CCR properties should be worth >$9000 psf! Hip hip hooray!
Its known FACT at some CCR properties (not even mickey mouse size) are selling above $4000psf. while in D22, the highest price for a MICKEY MOUSE (<500sqft) apartment is $1700psf. And its important to know that at Caspian, some MM apartment are renting out at $3000 per month and if factor that into the rental yield equation, $1700psf will still get your pretty decent rent yield of >3%.
As for those who own some old and run down CCR apartment, they will be lucky if they can find a tenant because there are some 2500sqft CCR apartment, only asking for 4.5k per month and even then they have problem getting tenant. Pathetic isnt it?
Anyone who have a brain that is capable of logical thinking will know that what teddybear is trying to do here is compare apple to orange
Ringo, you must be fantasizing again.....
Your JLD all full of 99 years leasehold properties only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a poor thing!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait till neck long long for your property prices to increase and then you have to hand over FREE OF CHARGE to the government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hurt:
Tell you honestly, you being a 99-years leasehold property owner is just a tenant for 99-years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all, and that is a real fact and the truth, nothing but the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop fantasizing on your run down FH CCR apartment because such apartments have already past its "USED BY" date and thats the reason why so many of them are struggling to find tenant.
Its a known fact that no apartment in Singapore will last forever even if its FH or LH, eventually it will be sold and be tear down for rebuilding. So unless if you are Peter Lim who own the entire block of apartment sitting on FH land, if not, you are just a caretaker of the FH apartment which will eventually be sold.
So please stop all that BS about FH being FOREVER because its NOT.
Talk of collective sale? Think again!
If you have a 99-year Leasehold properties with 50 years left, you think developers will buy from you at a new 99-years LH property price? No right! Since the developers need to top up another 49 years lease, the more expensive a new 99-years LH property costs, the less they will pay for your 50 years remaining lease!
The above further re-enforces the fact that better buy FH if you can afford it because now the premium is just 15-20% only! I won't be surprise that 100 years from now, the premium of a FH property could be >100% of a 99-years LH property!
Teddybear, please stop talking nonsense lah because we all know there are no chance to make money from en bloc
a) Owners of property with en bloc potential will not sell, nor are they going to sell below the en bloc value.
b) There are many very old FH property that has got no potential for en bloc due to lousy location.
c) Human have got limited life span, how many years can you afford to live in a run down apartment and wait for en bloc to happen?
I believe someone like you will be able to share with us how frustrated it is to see how MM and OCR investors are making money while you are still kpkbing about OCR selling at CCR price.
Life is short, learn to be nimble and dont get yourself so fixated by FH or CCR because you cant bring your FH property to your grave.
If you still insist on trying to impress us, then perhaps you can name us 5 FH property that will go en bloc within the next 5 years.
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 21:03
Between 2009 and 2014 your rental increase only a measly 12%. Compare that to the percentage increase in your property value between 2009 and 2014, i am pretty certain rental yield has fallen. Only when you tell me your pty value increase less than 12% then rental yield would have increased. Also you should compare average rental yield of your project in 2009 n 2014 which gives a more accurate assessment of rental yield for your condo. I hope you are not becoming another Ringo.
haha..in 2009-Jul2014, my west side 3rms pc rented out at 3.8K and just renewed on Jul at 4.2K with 10% increment so do you expect JG rental to be lower than mine with the MRT station just a stone's throw away :drinking_coffee_ico? Think deeper...bro.....:hornybastard: !!!
Between 2009 and 2014 your rental increase only a measly 12%. Compare that to the percentage increase in your property value between 2009 and 2014, i am pretty certain rental yield has fallen. Only when you tell me your pty value increase less than 12% then rental yield would have increased. Also you should compare average rental yield of your project in 2009 n 2014 which gives a more accurate assessment of rental yield for your condo. I hope you are not becoming another Ringo.
whats the point of telling us the JLD rental is bad when you cant even tell us somewhere that is better?
Please tell us why you should believe you are not just a noisy empty vessel
Talk of collective sale? Think again!
If you have a 99-year Leasehold properties with 50 years left, you think developers will buy from you at a new 99-years LH property price? No right! Since the developers need to top up another 49 years lease, the more expensive a new 99-years LH property costs, the less they will pay for your 50 years remaining lease!
The above further re-enforces the fact that better buy FH if you can afford it because now the premium is just 15-20% only! I won't be surprise that 100 years from now, the premium of a FH property could be >100% of a 99-years LH property!
Buying FH is almost an always safer bet. I know many people who will only buy FH. My goals and requirement are somewhat different and err I dun care what's gonna happen 100 years later cuz I'll be in heaven :barbershop_quartet_ and hopefully I wun be ard for more than 35 to 40 years. My take is FH or LH each has its values and there's many other factors that adds to its consideration.
U should be happy that not everyone think like you mah. If the majority only wants to buy or invest in FH the FH prices would have sky rocketed ordi by now and it would have been twice harder for you to build ur legacy portfolio to leave for your many generations to come.
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 22:33
Actually got plenty of condos with 4-5% rental yield based on squarefoot, shows you are damn lazy to even search. Just one example Sunniflora (average rental yield 5%) already beat Caspian rental yield of only a measly 3.8%. You want other examples? If we are playing strip poker, you would be running around the estate naked by now...lol
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=the-sunniflora
whats the point of telling us the JLD rental is bad when you cant even tell us somewhere that is better?
Please tell us why you should believe you are not just a noisy empty vessel
Actually got plenty of condos with 4-5% rental yield based on squarefoot, shows you are damn lazy to even search. Just one example Sunniflora (average rental yield 5%) already beat Caspian rental yield of only a measly 3.8%. You want other examples? If we are playing strip poker, you would be running around the estate naked by now...lol
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/residential?p=the-sunniflora
You must be pretty desperate to actually choose a 12 unit apartment block to compare with Caspian condo. And if you look at the details, there is actually one unit which was sold at a lost after holding it for more than 3 years and for the entire year, there are only 3 rental transactions and all compact apartment between 700 to 800sqft.
BEWARE someone is really desperate
Patrickstar
20-09-14, 23:45
Wah find you project with 5% rental yield you say project small? lol...
Ok I list you bigger 99yr leasehold projects with higher rental yield than Caspian:
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/rental-yield
There are too many projects doing better than Caspian in rental yield, the above are just some examples. You going to run naked in the hdb carpark under your block? lol....
YOu will probably wear your ah neh apron and start to flip prata and say the above properties blah blah blah...lol
You must be pretty desperate to actually choose a 12 unit apartment block to compare with Caspian condo. And if you look at the details, there is actually one unit which was sold at a lost after holding it for more than 3 years and for the entire year, there are only 3 rental transactions and all compact apartment between 700 to 800sqft.
BEWARE someone is really desperate
a) Does it make sense to use MM project to compare to Caspian rental yield?
b) Whats the point of cherry picking island wide projecst to compare to Caspian. Why not tell us which district or which 5km radius in Singapore can offer better rental yield than those JLD?
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 00:54
At first you ask which project in Singapore doing better than Caspian in rental yield, i give you a long list of projects doing better in rental yield than Caspian now you flip prata with me n tell me look for projects 5km radius of JLD with better rental yield. You obviously didn't bother looking at the list otherwise you would have noticed a few projects in D23 already doing better than Caspian. You should practise harder flipping your prata coz many pieces of prata you flipped have landed on the floor...lol
a) Does it make sense to use MM project to compare to Caspian rental yield?
b) Whats the point of cherry picking island wide projecst to compare to Caspian. Why not tell us which district or which 5km radius in Singapore can offer better rental yield than those JLD?
I never like to look at rental yield because rental yield high means rental goes up but the property price didn't move up or could have even dropped! Is that really good for the property investor with property price either stagnant or dropping as years go by? What is the point of having high rental yield when the person will be selling at a loss (after interests) when the time comes for them to sell, especially for 99-year leasehold properties when almost everyone waiting to flip to the next carrot head before the 99LH property is >15 years old and less and less people would buy such properties? :cower:
Wah find you project with 5% rental yield you say project small? lol...
Ok I list you bigger 99yr leasehold projects with higher rental yield than Caspian:
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/rental-yield
There are too many projects doing better than Caspian in rental yield, the above are just some examples. You going to run naked in the hdb carpark under your block? lol....
YOu will probably wear your ah neh apron and start to flip prata and say the above properties blah blah blah...lol
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 01:18
Many of those projects in my list have enjoyed decent cap gain due to the property upturn after the Lehman crisis. Generally those buying 99yr LH projects should enjoy high rental yield as a trade-off for depreciation. When carrotheads pay a high psf for a 99yr LH project, they have nothing else to bank on but talk about rental yield. When the carrothead owner of the 99yr LH project doesn't even have rental yield to talk about, there is nothing left in the project worth investing.
I never like to look at rental yield because rental yield high means rental goes up but the property price didn't move up or could have even dropped! Is that really good for the property investor with property price either stagnant or dropping as years go by? What is the point of having high rental yield when the person will be selling at a loss (after interests) when the time comes for them to sell, especially for 99-year leasehold properties when almost everyone waiting to flip to the next carrot head before the 99LH property is >15 years old and less and less people would buy such properties? :cower:
Many of those projects in my list have enjoyed decent cap gain due to the property upturn after the Lehman crisis. Generally those buying 99yr LH projects should enjoy high rental yield as a trade-off for depreciation. When carrotheads pay a high psf for a 99yr LH project, they have nothing else to bank on but talk about rental yield. When the carrothead owner of the 99yr LH project doesn't even have rental yield to talk about, there is nothing left in the project worth investing.
Talk is cheap until you need to back up what you said.
In JLD, all the condos are LH, so can you show us which condo in D22 has depreciate since lehman crisis in 2011.
Did you know that the sunniflora, the condo you want to show that has very high rental yield is actually FH and someone who bought in 2011 recently sold it off as a lost. So are you contradicting and trapping yourself with all that nonsensical theory of yours?
At first you ask which project in Singapore doing better than Caspian in rental yield, i give you a long list of projects doing better in rental yield than Caspian now you flip prata with me n tell me look for projects 5km radius of JLD with better rental yield. You obviously didn't bother looking at the list otherwise you would have noticed a few projects in D23 already doing better than Caspian. You should practise harder flipping your prata coz many pieces of prata you flipped have landed on the floor...lol
If you want to compare to Caspian, choose a project of similar size and similar price to compare. Only amateur like yourself will pick MM project and apartment block of 12 units to compare to caspian that has 712 units.
And please dont lie with your eye shut, its very dangerous as you might hit your head against the tree.
whats the point of telling us the JLD rental is bad when you cant even tell us somewhere that is better?
Please tell us why you should believe you are not just a noisy empty vessel
Hahaha...carrot heads.....as I said before, time horizon is key....when your mother buy 4rm flat at 20k, you are carrot head buying at 200k, when your kids buy the same type of flat at 400k, he is then the carrot head, please wake up....haven't You?? ;)
Many of those projects in my list have enjoyed decent cap gain due to the property upturn after the Lehman crisis. Generally those buying 99yr LH projects should enjoy high rental yield as a trade-off for depreciation. When carrotheads pay a high psf for a 99yr LH project, they have nothing else to bank on but talk about rental yield. When the carrothead owner of the 99yr LH project doesn't even have rental yield to talk about, there is nothing left in the project worth investing.
I never like to look at rental yield because rental yield high means rental goes up but the property price didn't move up or could have even dropped! Is that really good for the property investor with property price either stagnant or dropping as years go by? What is the point of having high rental yield when the person will be selling at a loss (after interests) when the time comes for them to sell, especially for 99-year leasehold properties when almost everyone waiting to flip to the next carrot head before the 99LH property is >15 years old and less and less people would buy such properties? :cower:
I am sure your views about rental yield is clouded by personal circumstance. e.g. owning a old run down property that has already past the used by date.
In reality rental yield is one of the key consideration for property investment because its one of the key indicator of the perceived value of the property, while the other is capital appreciation.
For property around JLD, they have enjoy very good capital appreciation over the years and still command a very decent rental yield which is above national average.
While those old and big FH apartment in CCR, they have suffer price erosion as will as falling rental yield, and those are the property which has performed the worst in Singapore
So there you go, as an investor, would you want to put your money?
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 13:39
I gave you a long list of developments with better rental yield than caspian's measly 3.7-3.8%% rental yield n you tell me i only mentioned one? I think you are in serious denial and when you lose an argument, you start wearing your ah neh apron n flip prata for everyone to see. Stop disgracing yourself further than you already have.
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
If you want to compare to Caspian, choose a project of similar size and similar price to compare. Only amateur like yourself will pick MM project and apartment block of 12 units to compare to caspian that has 712 units.
And please dont lie with your eye shut, its very dangerous as you might hit your head against the tree.
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 13:48
The carrothead is the one who pays $1700psf for a condo in an area when all other condos are selling at $1k psf or below in the same area. I bet you must be one of these carrotheads...lol
Hahaha...carrot heads.....as I said before, time horizon is key....when your mother buy 4rm flat at 20k, you are carrot head buying at 200k, when your kids buy the same type of flat at 400k, he is then the carrot head, please wake up....haven't You?? ;)
Patrickstar, the list that you provided from squarefoot.com.sg is not complete and its the same list which I have used in the past before you even know what rental yield was all about.
Did you intentionally remove D22 condo from that list for selfish and insecurity reasons?
And like i said before, if you think that JLD rental yield is lousy, then tell us which district is better.
I am pretty sure you are clueless about this.
The carrothead is the one who pays $1700psf for a condo in an area when all other condos are selling at $1k psf or below in the same area. I bet you must be one of these carrotheads...lol
If those who bought J Gateway are carrothead, then those who compare PSF of mickey mouse apartment (<500sqft) to those above 1000sqft are Potato head :)
Not too long ago, there was one potatohead who say that those who bought Caspian are carrothead too. No prize for guessing where is he now.
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 14:05
Prata man change from comparing with caspian to comparing with JLD? ROTFL....
JLD rental lousier than which project is in the list, do people need to feed you info like a baby? Lol...
Oops i think a few pieces of your prata landed on the floor during the flip....lol
Patrickstar, the list that you provided from squarefoot.com.sg is not complete and its the same list which I have used in the past before you even know what rental yield was all about.
Did you intentionally remove D22 condo from that list for selfish and insecurity reasons?
And like i said before, if you think that JLD rental yield is lousy, then tell us which district is better.
I am pretty sure you are clueless about this.
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 14:16
I am still recovering from your side splitting interpretation of what rental yield is, taking Caspian's 2009 pricing to determine 2014 rental yield. I know you were the clown award recipient for 2013, i think this year the award is yours to be as well, so congrats in advance...:D
If those who bought J Gateway are carrothead, then those who compare PSF of mickey mouse apartment (<500sqft) to those above 1000sqft are Potato head :)
Not too long ago, there was one potatohead who say that those who bought Caspian are carrothead too. No prize for guessing where is he now.
u drag too far away....:) whether they are carrot head or not, i cant tell now, maybe 5 yrs later when it TOP and ppl selling then u comment...dont waste your time now.
The carrothead is the one who pays $1700psf for a condo in an area when all other condos are selling at $1k psf or below in the same area. I bet you must be one of these carrotheads...lol
Many are ready for a slash to set new benchmark of rental price on JLD.
Prata man change from comparing with caspian to comparing with JLD? ROTFL....
JLD rental lousier than which project is in the list, do people need to feed you info like a baby? Lol...
Oops i think a few pieces of your prata landed on the floor during the flip....lol
I am not sure if you remember that this thread is about property in the west, and not Caspian. The reason why we are talking about Caspian is because Caspian is the first project in D22 that offer MM apartment, and I am using it to project the rental of similar size apartment in J Gateway.
And in your own words you have said that JLD 3.8% rental yield is low, so I am asking you, which district in Singapore do you think offer better rental yield. For that, I dont mean you should pick an apartment block consisting of only 12 units of compact size apartment to compare with 712unit Caspian.
As i said before, talk is cheap until you can back up what you said with facts. So if JLD is not attractive to you, then tell us where is attractive.
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 23:07
This is the third time i am posting the list of projects with 4% and higher rental yield. I have no cure for stupidity if you are trying to ask me for an antidote. You were bragging about Caspian's rental yield so don't lie about it n when you discovered caspian's rental yield is only 3.8%, you switch to prata flipping mode. There must be a stack of pratas on the floor now after you didn't manage to catch them...lol
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
I am not sure if you remember that this thread is about property in the west, and not Caspian. The reason why we are talking about Caspian is because Caspian is the first project in D22 that offer MM apartment, and I am using it to project the rental of similar size apartment in J Gateway.
And in your own words you have said that JLD 3.8% rental yield is low, so I am asking you, which district in Singapore do you think offer better rental yield. For that, I dont mean you should pick an apartment block consisting of only 12 units of compact size apartment to compare with 712unit Caspian.
As i said before, talk is cheap until you can back up what you said with facts. So if JLD is not attractive to you, then tell us where is attractive.
As I said before,
a) Whats the point of quoting information wholesale without understanding the details of what you are quoting.
Anyone who are in property long enough will know its foolish to use small MM project to compare with mass market condo like Caspian that has got 712 units.
b) When you say that average rental yield of 3.8% is lousy, can you name me some of the project which you think is better than Caspian. Before you rush into quoting some 12unit apartment block as comparison, please remember to compare the capital gain over the years as well.
c) So if JLD is not attractive can you tell us which other district is better.
Talk is cheap until you have to back up with facts.
I am puzzled about why is there an argument about 1-2% difference in rental yield as if this is the only thing that matters.
If you look at some of the new launches in CCR (Cyan, Spottiswoode Residence, Goodwood etc) they are still selling well at high psf notwithstanding the low yield. Going by the logic of some posters here ("good rental yield = good capital appreciation"), does it mean that all these new launches etc will drop like crazy because of their low yield? Yield is only one aspect of a property which buyers will consider.
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 23:41
3.8% rental yield for caspian is lousy and that is a fact. I listed about 50 projects doing better in rental yield than Caspian and you still ask me for facts? This shows your level of stupidity n further proves you are in denial.
Btw we haven't forgotten your utterly hilarious n side splitting interpretation of rental yield using Caspian's 2009 pricing and 2014 rental. Keep up your clown act. :D
As I said before,
a) Whats the point of quoting information wholesale without understanding the details of what you are quoting.
Anyone who are in property long enough will know its foolish to use small MM project to compare with mass market condo like Caspian that has got 712 units.
b) When you say that average rental yield of 3.8% is lousy, can you name me some of the project which you think is better than Caspian. Before you rush into quoting some 12unit apartment block as comparison, please remember to compare the capital gain over the years as well.
c) So if JLD is not attractive can you tell us which other district is better.
Talk is cheap until you have to back up with facts.
Patrickstar
21-09-14, 23:47
If you know the background, this joker has been bragging about Caspian's rental yield since the beginning of his life in this forum n believes that j gateway will mimic Caspian's rental performance. I am telling him that Caspian's rental yield isn't doing better than a whole load of other projects be it freehold or leasehold. He is trapped in his own web n start to flip prata evident from his posts.
I am puzzled about why is there an argument about 1-2% difference in rental yield as if this is the only thing that matters.
If you look at some of the new launches in CCR (Cyan, Spottiswoode Residence, Goodwood etc) they are still selling well at high psf notwithstanding the low yield. Going by the logic of some posters here ("good rental yield = good capital appreciation"), does it mean that all these new launches etc will drop like crazy because of their low yield? Yield is only one aspect of a property which buyers will consider.
3.8% rental yield for caspian is lousy and that is a fact. I listed about 50 projects doing better in rental yield than Caspian and you still ask me for facts? This shows your level of stupidity n further proves you are in denial.
Btw we haven't forgotten your utterly hilarious n side splitting interpretation of rental yield using Caspian's 2009 pricing and 2014 rental. Keep up your clown act. :D
If you compare MM rental yield, Caspian is right on top at 5.7%.
You want to dispute that?
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-rental
22 CASPIAN 400 to 500 3,100 2 650,000 1 5.7 3.7 +2.0
15 HERITAGE EAST 300 to 400 2,183 3 605,000 1 4.3 3.7 +0.6
15 PARC ELEGANCE 400 to 500 2,214 11 622,000 1 4.3 3.8 +0.4
15 ESPIRA SUITES 400 to 500 2,575 10 728,250 2 4.2 4.2 +0.1
22 THE LAKEFRONT RESIDENCES 400 to 500 2,625 18 742,500 2 4.2 3.8 +0.4
19 PARK RESIDENCES KOVAN 300 to 400 2,211 22 640,000 1 4.1 4.2 -0.0
15 THE COTZ 300 to 400 1,950 2 575,000 1 4.1 3.9 +0.2
19 GLASGOW RESIDENCE 400 to 500 2,000 1 595,000 1 4.0 3.0 +1.1
15 THE COTZ 400 to 500 2,043 7 618,000 1 4.0 3.9 +0.1
19 THE SCALA 400 to 500 2,590 50 778,625 8 4.0 3.5 +0.5
25 PARC ROSEWOOD 400 to 500 1,900 5 587,500 4 3.9 3.8 +0.1
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR 300 to 400 1,975 2 610,000 1 3.9 6.8 -2.9
14 VACANZA @ EAST 400 to 500 2,243 7 690,000 3 3.9 2.9 +1.0
19 CARDIFF RESIDENCE 400 to 500 2,136 47 666,333 3 3.8 3.5 +0.3
19 ISUITES @ TANI 400 to 500 2,090 3 668,000 1 3.8 3.2 +0.5
If you compare MM rental yield, Caspian is right on top at 5.7%.
You want to dispute that?
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-rental
22 CASPIAN 400 to 500 3,100 2 650,000 1 5.7 3.7 +2.0
15 HERITAGE EAST 300 to 400 2,183 3 605,000 1 4.3 3.7 +0.6
15 PARC ELEGANCE 400 to 500 2,214 11 622,000 1 4.3 3.8 +0.4
15 ESPIRA SUITES 400 to 500 2,575 10 728,250 2 4.2 4.2 +0.1
22 THE LAKEFRONT RESIDENCES 400 to 500 2,625 18 742,500 2 4.2 3.8 +0.4
19 PARK RESIDENCES KOVAN 300 to 400 2,211 22 640,000 1 4.1 4.2 -0.0
15 THE COTZ 300 to 400 1,950 2 575,000 1 4.1 3.9 +0.2
19 GLASGOW RESIDENCE 400 to 500 2,000 1 595,000 1 4.0 3.0 +1.1
15 THE COTZ 400 to 500 2,043 7 618,000 1 4.0 3.9 +0.1
19 THE SCALA 400 to 500 2,590 50 778,625 8 4.0 3.5 +0.5
25 PARC ROSEWOOD 400 to 500 1,900 5 587,500 4 3.9 3.8 +0.1
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR 300 to 400 1,975 2 610,000 1 3.9 6.8 -2.9
14 VACANZA @ EAST 400 to 500 2,243 7 690,000 3 3.9 2.9 +1.0
19 CARDIFF RESIDENCE 400 to 500 2,136 47 666,333 3 3.8 3.5 +0.3
19 ISUITES @ TANI 400 to 500 2,090 3 668,000 1 3.8 3.2 +0.5
Well I just looked at that Squarefoot link, which says there were only TWO shoebox rental contracts signed at Caspian in last six months. Quite pathetic compared to e.g. CCR Espada, Robertson Edge etc which have many many times more at just a slightly lower yield (these are freehold).
Well I just looked at that Squarefoot link, which says there were only TWO shoebox rental contracts signed at Caspian in last six months. Quite pathetic compared to e.g. CCR Espada, Robertson Edge etc which have many many times more at just a slightly lower yield (these are freehold).
Last I check there are at least 6 rental contract for MM apartment at Capsian since beginning of the year.
i am not sure if its fair statement to say that more transactions is better because more transaction could mean high turn over of tenants which is not a good thing for owners.
ultimately its the rental yield that you should be looking at because it usually reflect the balance of supply and demand. And I am sure if there are too much supply, the rent owner cant be renting out his apartment at 5.7% yield isnt it?
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 00:58
Lol...relying on two freak rental contracts to justify Caspian MM rental yield? I think you must have nothing left to cling on to justify j gateway MM investment other than these freak contracts. Do you know that in August 2014 a 950sqft two bedder twice the size of a one bedder in Caspian was rented for only $2900? You going to say $2900 is an anomaly or your 5.7% MM yield for caspian is an anomaly? This is the reason why people look at the average rental yield of the project n not rely on one or two freak contracts in the development. You are becoming extremely desperate i can see.
If you compare MM rental yield, Caspian is right on top at 5.7%.
You want to dispute that?
https://www.squarefoot.com.sg/market-watch/shoebox-rental
22 CASPIAN 400 to 500 3,100 2 650,000 1 5.7 3.7 +2.0
15 HERITAGE EAST 300 to 400 2,183 3 605,000 1 4.3 3.7 +0.6
15 PARC ELEGANCE 400 to 500 2,214 11 622,000 1 4.3 3.8 +0.4
15 ESPIRA SUITES 400 to 500 2,575 10 728,250 2 4.2 4.2 +0.1
22 THE LAKEFRONT RESIDENCES 400 to 500 2,625 18 742,500 2 4.2 3.8 +0.4
19 PARK RESIDENCES KOVAN 300 to 400 2,211 22 640,000 1 4.1 4.2 -0.0
15 THE COTZ 300 to 400 1,950 2 575,000 1 4.1 3.9 +0.2
19 GLASGOW RESIDENCE 400 to 500 2,000 1 595,000 1 4.0 3.0 +1.1
15 THE COTZ 400 to 500 2,043 7 618,000 1 4.0 3.9 +0.1
19 THE SCALA 400 to 500 2,590 50 778,625 8 4.0 3.5 +0.5
25 PARC ROSEWOOD 400 to 500 1,900 5 587,500 4 3.9 3.8 +0.1
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR 300 to 400 1,975 2 610,000 1 3.9 6.8 -2.9
14 VACANZA @ EAST 400 to 500 2,243 7 690,000 3 3.9 2.9 +1.0
19 CARDIFF RESIDENCE 400 to 500 2,136 47 666,333 3 3.8 3.5 +0.3
19 ISUITES @ TANI 400 to 500 2,090 3 668,000 1 3.8 3.2 +0.5
Lol...relying on two freak rental contracts to justify Caspian MM rental yield? I think you must have nothing left to cling on to justify j gateway MM investment other than these freak contracts. Do you know that in August 2014 a 950sqft two bedder twice the size of a one bedder in Caspian was rented for only $2900? You going to say $2900 is an anomaly or your 5.7% MM yield for caspian is an anomaly? This is the reason why people look at the average rental yield of the project n not rely on one or two freak contracts in the development. You are becoming extremely desperate i can see.
its funny to see how you will go about making sweeping statement about Caspian transactions as "freak" while at the same time quoting squarefoot.com.sg data wholesale without checking the details. And now cherry pick a 2 bedder transaction as Caspian to justify your argument. I thought we have already been through that and now you are want to replay the same nonsense all over again?
To be honest, the only freak I see here is you. Go get a life and educate yourself with practical and usable knowledge because twisting and misinterpreting facts will not get you very far in life.
Want to impress us? Tell us which district is more attractive than JLD. (Which we know you CANT)
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 01:39
Who is the cherry picker here? Using 2 MM contracts in Caspian to justify the rental performance of Caspian? People look at the average rental yield of the entire project for a more accurate assessment of the rental performance of the project, not rely on 2 freak MM contracts. I was using a $2900 rental contract for the 950sqft two bedder in Caspian in August 2014 to illustrate the need to use average rental yield of the whole project and not rely on one or 2 freak contracts in the development to determine the entire project's performance. You should stop making yourself look like a fool and clown.
BTW in case you forget, the following is the list of projects with better rental yield than Caspian (there is still more that has not been listed):
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
its funny to see how you will go about making sweeping statement about Caspian transactions as "freak" while at the same time quoting squarefoot.com.sg data wholesale without checking the details. And now cherry pick a 2 bedder transaction as Caspian to justify your argument. I thought we have already been through that and now you are want to replay the same nonsense all over again?
To be honest, the only freak I see here is you. Go get a life and educate yourself with practical and usable knowledge because twisting and misinterpreting facts will not get you very far in life.
Want to impress us? Tell us which district is more attractive than JLD. (Which we know you CANT)
AFAIK, the below 2 projects are mainly 300-400sqft MM apartment rental trasaction and you must be pretty desperate to not acknowledge that these are FREAK development.
And you must be pretty desperate to purposely omit D22 condo project in that list as well.
BEWARE, someone is getting desperate!!
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
For those still want to doubt of D22 rental potential here is a list of rental yield for pretty much all D22 condo.
And these high yield are still achievable despite the sharp price appreciation over the last 3 to 4 years.
Summerdale : 4.2%
Lakepoint Condo : 4.2%
Lakeholmz : 4.2%
The Floravale : 4.2%
The Lakeshore : 4.0%
The Mayfair : 4.0%
The Lakefront Residences : 3.8%
Parc Oasis : 3.8%
Parc Vista : 3.7%
Caspian : 3.7%
Ivory Heights : 3.7%
So patrickstar, please name me a district that can top this.
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 02:02
If I am desperate, I won't be listing you almost 50 projects outside Jurong doing better than Caspian. The rental yield for the 2 suites are rental yields for the whole project, not rental yield based on one or two freak rental contracts like what you have relied on for Caspian. Oops, I think your prata is stacking up on the floor after so many misflips...lol
In case you forget again, here are the rental yields of projects that outperform Caspian:
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
AFAIK, the below 2 projects are mainly 300-400sqft MM apartment rental trasaction and you must be pretty desperate to not acknowledge that these are FREAK development.
And you must be pretty desperate to purposely omit D22 condo project in that list as well.
BEWARE, someone is getting desperate!!
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
If I am desperate, I won't be listing you almost 50 projects outside Jurong doing better than Caspian. The rental yield for 15 and 19 suites are rental yields for the whole project, not rental yield based on one or two freak rental contracts like what you have relied on for Caspian. Oops, I think your prata is stacking up on the floor after so many misflips...lol
In case you forget again, here are the rental yields of projects that outperform Caspian:
I am sorry, 15 and 19 suites are mostly 300-400sqft MM rental transaction and you will need to be pretty desperate to use that to compare with Caspian, which is mainly 2 to 3 bedder rental transaction.
If you want to compare MM, I have already shown you that Caspian MM top the chart, but you refused to accept it call that as freak.
Like I said before, the only thing that is freak here is you.
For those still want to doubt of D22 rental potential here is a list of rental yield for pretty much all D22 condo.
And these high yield are still achievable despite the sharp price appreciation over the last 3 to 4 years.
Summerdale : 4.2%
Lakepoint Condo : 4.2%
Lakeholmz : 4.2%
The Floravale : 4.2%
The Lakeshore : 4.0%
The Mayfair : 4.0%
The Lakefront Residences : 3.8%
Parc Oasis : 3.8%
Parc Vista : 3.7%
Caspian : 3.7%
Ivory Heights : 3.7%
So patrickstar, please name me a district that can top this.
Lakeside boosted by new developments
Rental yields have been fairly high as well, with gross yields of about 3.9 per cent in the first half of this year, he added. Two-year-old Caspian and six-year-old The Lakeshore have the highest gross rental yields in the area of about 4 per cent.
In comparison, gross yields islandwide was about 3.7 per cent over the same period.
Noting that developments have consistently seen high leasing interest, with at least 10 leases signed at each development in each quarter in recent years, "the location is well-tested in leasing demand and investment potential", said Mr Ong.
- See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/lakeside-boosted-new-developments#sthash.HZdEBBKw.dpuf
Wonder why our forum NEA officer (aka Teddybear) is so quiet about PSI reading these few days?
http://app2.nea.gov.sg/anti-pollution-radiation-protection/air-pollution-control/psi/psi-trend-graph
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 02:41
I think everyone here knows who the freak is - the person who uses 2009 Caspian pricing to justify 2014 rental yield and relying on 2 MM contracts to justify the rental performance on the whole project and whose favourite pastime is flipping prata in the forum. Suites@ paya lebar is a mixture of big and small units and the rental performance of the project as a whole has trumped Caspian's rental performance by a big margin (6.8% for suites@paya lebar vs 3.7% for Caspian) and you simply can't swallow that fact. The same goes for Suites@ East Coast with 6.5% rental yield. Of course being a freak, prata man, clown and idiot all rolled into one, you would probably come up with a load of bullcrap to say it is not fair comparison, but it is ok, you can slowly spend your time analysing the other 40+ projects that outperform Caspian.
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
I am sorry, 15 and 19 suites are mostly 300-400sqft MM rental transaction and you will need to be pretty desperate to use that to compare with Caspian, which is mainly 2 to 3 bedder rental transaction.
If you want to compare MM, I have already shown you that Caspian MM top the chart, but you refused to accept it call that as freak.
Like I said before, the only thing that is freak here is you.
Suites @ Paya Lebar. The name itself already tell you this is MM liao. 74% of the units are MM units with 47% are units below 400sqft. 28 rental transaction this year, only 3 transaction is >500sqft and NONE bigger than 700sqft.
You must be pretty desperate to use such project to compare to caspian, where only 2.5% or 17 units are <500sqft.
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Aug-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Jun-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,150 500 to 600 Jun-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,600 400 to 500 May-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,000 300 to 400 May-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Apr-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,950 300 to 400 Apr-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Apr-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,800 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 1,900 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,200 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,100 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,250 300 to 400 Feb-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,000 300 to 400 Feb-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,600 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,900 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,200 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,200 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,600 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,300 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 2 3,100 600 to 700 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,100 500 to 600 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,200 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,900 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,000 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,400 400 to 500 Jan-14
Beware
In the west, Jurong Lake District is shaping up well to become the largest regional centre outside the city centre. A mix of office, retail, food and beverage (F&B) and entertainment uses are being added to Jurong Gateway, the district's commercial precinct, to meet the needs of residents, workers and visitors.
At the National Day Rally, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong announced that Jurong will be further transformed with the development of a community-centric Jurong Lake Gardens and a new Science Centre. Public transport systems such as road and rail will be enhanced in the coming years to support the development of the area. These new developments will shape the west into a great place to live, work and play.
- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/commercial-clusters-bring-jobs-closer-homes-20140829#sthash.n74vpSi8.dpuf
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 03:21
So you are trying to illustrate to us that Suites@paya lebar's MM with 6.8% rental yield doing far better than Caspian's MM? Lol...look who is desperate, pick one project out of almost 50 projects to argue your point? Why not give us an analysis of the other 40+ projects instead of just doing it one at a time.
Btw don't forget the following projects that have higher rental yield than Caspian. We await your detailed analysis of all the projects.
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
Suites @ Paya Lebar. The name itself already tell you this is MM liao. 74% of the units are MM units with 47% are units below 400sqft. 28 rental transaction this year, only 3 transaction is >500sqft and NONE bigger than 700sqft.
You must be pretty desperate to use such project to compare to caspian, where only 2.5% or 17 units are <500sqft.
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Aug-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Jun-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,150 500 to 600 Jun-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,600 400 to 500 May-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,000 300 to 400 May-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Apr-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,950 300 to 400 Apr-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Apr-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,800 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 1,900 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,200 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,100 300 to 400 Mar-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,250 300 to 400 Feb-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,000 300 to 400 Feb-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,600 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,900 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,200 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,200 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,600 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,300 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 2 3,100 600 to 700 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,100 500 to 600 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,200 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,000 400 to 500 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 1,900 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties na* 2,000 300 to 400 Jan-14
SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR UPPER PAYA LEBAR ROAD 19 Non-landed Properties 1 2,400 400 to 500 Jan-14
I am illustrating that you must be very desperate to use a project that has got 74% MM unit to compare to Caspian who only has got 2.5% MM units.
We all know that MM unit will have higher rental yield BUT extremely pathetic capital gain.
For the case of Caspian, the average yield is around 3.9% despite price rising almost 100% over the past 5 years. So if you think that buying MM units like Suites @ Paya Lebar is wise, then why are you not getting one for yourself?
And btw why are you not responding to my question about which dist is more attractive than D22 in terms of Rental yield and capital appreciation? Dont act blur leh...
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 04:14
Lose out on rental yield argument so bring in Caspian's 100% capital appreciation again? ROTFL...
Suites@Paya lebar has performed better in rental performance than Caspian as a project and even in comparison with just MM alone and that is a fact. 74% MM or not, that project has outperformed Caspian in rental performance n that is a fact. You can't face it that is why you go back n forth flipping your prata.
You lose out in your argument in defending Caspian rental yield n now u summon other condos in JLD to support your argument and talk about other districts in comparison with JLD? I think everyone can see who the desperado is here.
Btw we are awaiting your analysis of the other 40+ condos that perform better than Caspian in rental yield, so don't run away.
19 SUITES @ PAYA LEBAR FREEHOLD 2013 918 5 5.18 13 6.8
15 SUITES @ EASTCOAST FREEHOLD 2012 1,076 6 5.86 32 6.5
5 VISTA PARK 99 YRS FROM 1979 1985 823 5 3.65 28 5.3
18 TAMPINES COURT 101 YRS FROM 1985 UNKNOWN 535 5 2.08 46 4.7
2 ICON 99 YRS FROM 2002 2007 1,716 4 6.64 190 4.6
16 AQUARIUS BY THE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1996 2001 798 7 3.07 47 4.6
5 PARK WEST 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 757 4 2.87 60 4.6
27 EUPHONY GARDENS 99 YRS FROM 1998 2001 707 5 2.56 11 4.4
10 GLENTREES 999 YRS FROM 1885 2005 1,280 7 4.60 12 4.3
8 KERRISDALE 99 YRS FROM 1998 2005 1,116 6 3.99 50 4.3
3 RIVER PLACE 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 1,310 7 4.66 127 4.3
23 THE MADEIRA 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 837 4 2.97 23 4.3
10 VIZ AT HOLLAND FREEHOLD 2008 1,422 8 5.05 23 4.3
14 WATERBANK AT DAKOTA 99 YRS FROM 2009 2013 1,443 5 5.11 57 4.2
19 RIVERVALE CREST 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 812 5 2.87 17 4.2
5 BLUE HORIZON 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 1,054 4 3.71 84 4.2
27 ORCHID PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 1991 1994 734 10 2.59 43 4.2
23 HILLVIEW REGENCY 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 869 10 3.06 39 4.2
18 SAVANNAH CONDOPARK 99 YRS FROM 2000 2005 873 13 3.07 41 4.2
25 ROSEWOOD 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 807 4 2.83 33 4.2
19 REGENTVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 806 9 2.81 37 4.2
5 ONE-NORTH RESIDENCES 99 YRS FROM 2005 2009 1,424 8 4.97 111 4.2
16 BAYSHORE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1982 1986 972 13 3.38 165 4.2
4 THE PEARL @ MOUNT FABER 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 1,174 6 4.08 25 4.2
15 VILLA MARINA 99 YRS FROM 1995 1999 915 7 3.16 34 4.2
18 MELVILLE PARK 99 YRS FROM 1992 1996 782 15 2.70 168 4.1
9 ESPADA FREEHOLD 2013 2,556 9 8.81 33 4.1
27 LILYDALE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 725 5 2.48 22 4.1
15 SANCTUARY GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2003 1,129 7 3.86 75 4.1
25 CASABLANCA 99 YRS FROM 2001 2005 866 11 2.96 39 4.1
27 YISHUN EMERALD 99 YRS FROM 1998 2002 741 6 2.53 21 4.1
16 TANAMERA CREST 99 YRS FROM 2000 2004 911 6 3.10 23 4.1
23 THE WARREN 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 869 10 2.95 45 4.1
19 THE FLORIDA 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 711 5 2.41 11 4.1
18 TROPICAL SPRING 99 YRS FROM 1997 2002 916 5 3.09 22 4.1
25 NORTHOAKS 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 671 7 2.27 49 4.1
4 CARIBBEAN AT KEPPEL BAY 99 YRS FROM 1999 2004 1,580 10 5.33 179 4.1
14 STARVILLE FREEHOLD 2006 975 4 3.29 24 4.0
3 TANGLIN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2001 1,283 9 4.32 52 4.0
19 SUNGLADE 99 YRS FROM 2000 2003 1,128 6 3.78 40 4.0
8 CITYLIGHTS 99 YRS FROM 2004 2007 1,550 7 5.19 124 4.0
15 DUNMAN VIEW 99 YRS FROM 1997 2004 1,002 5 3.35 9 4.0
18 THE ESPARIS 99 YRS FROM 2002 2005 799 5 2.66 11 4.0
18 EASTPOINT GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1996 1999 905 4 3.01 88 4.0
25 WOODSVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 661 7 2.19 80 4.0
5 VARSITY PARK CONDOMINIUM 99 YRS FROM 2004 2008 1,064 6 3.52 48 4.0
15 COTE D'AZUR 99 YRS FROM 2001 2004 1,220 5 4.04 76 4.0
23 YEW MEI GREEN 99 YRS FROM 1997 2000 752 12 2.48 27 4.0
18 PINEVALE 99 YRS FROM 1997 1999 761 5 2.51 19 4.0
9 VISIONCREST FREEHOLD 2007 1,949 5 6.43 67 4.0
14 SIMSVILLE 99 YRS FROM 1994 1998 944 5 3.11 68 4.0
I am illustrating that you must be very desperate to use a project that has got 74% MM unit to compare to Caspian who only has got 2.5% MM units.
We all know that MM unit will have higher rental yield BUT extremely pathetic capital gain.
For the case of Caspian, the average yield is around 3.9% despite price rising almost 100% over the past 5 years. So if you think that buying MM units like Suites @ Paya Lebar is wise, then why are you not getting one for yourself?
And btw why are you not responding to my question about which dist is more attractive than D22 in terms of Rental yield and capital appreciation? Dont act blur leh...
Given JLD proximity to Iskandar, expect hollowing out effect on JLD.
10,000 Iskandar homes completed every year drawing tenants away from Jurong.
If you work in Tuas which is equivalent from JLD and Iskandar, would you pay SGD 3000/month for <500sqft Jgateway when one can pay half the amount and get double the size in Iskandar sea-facing condos in Putri Harbour?
-------------------------------------
By Ku Swee Yong
[email protected]
Investors should sell their residential investments in Singapore. The property market, which has been gradually declining, does not need any new action to tip it over. Just the sheer number of new homes being supplied both in Singapore and Iskandar will drive prices lower.
New private home sales in Singapore have plunged in the past three months to about 40 per cent of the monthly average of the past five years or so.
Since January 2010, the average number of homes sold by developers each month has exceeded 1,300 units. The total number of new homes sold in June, July and August were 531, 560 and 490, respectively, including executive condominiums (EC). Excluding the hybrid housing type, the respective numbers were 482, 509, and 432, respectively, Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) and Century 21 (IPA) data showed.
Given seasonal factors, such as the Hungry Ghost Month and the quadrennial football World Cup, the three months of dismal private home sales will not be sufficient to render the residential sector a bear market. However, the downward trend can be confirmed by several other indicators.
The Housing and Development Board (HDB)’s resale price index, which has a direct impact on mass market private properties, has fallen 5.4 per cent over the past four quarters.
During the same period, the URA’s private residential price index slipped 3.4 per cent. The weakness is also reflected in the rental market, where median private non-landed rentals eased 1.1 per cent in the past four quarters to S$3.79 psf per month. Meanwhile, private residential occupancy rates fell to 92.9 per cent in the second quarter of this year from 93.9 per cent in the third quarter of last year. In absolute terms, the number of vacant units increased to 21,268 in the second quarter of this year from 17,459 in the third quarter of last year.
Taken together, it is evident that we experienced a slow decline over the past year. Will this gradual weakening lead to a soft landing? Or are we about to fall off the edge of a cliff? As a practising real estate agent, I find it tougher to hold up high rents for landlords. With the rising vacancy rates amid a stream of newly-completed properties, the competition for tenants is intense, especially with the Government tightening foreign employment.
Although some landlords have yet to tune themselves to this new reality, others have reacted quickly ahead of next year’s record high supply, which will further pressure rents.
Supply of HDB, EC UNITS and Private Residences
In the past 10 years, Singapore has added about 8,000 new private residential units per year. But next year, we can expect about 22,000 units to be completed and 24,000 the year after and at least 16,000 in 2017. The pressure on rents will be overwhelming. Lifting the property curbs will not help fill vacant apartments and improve rents.
The expected supply of new HDB flats and ECs is large as well. More than 25,000 units will be completed every year over the next three years. There are also many second-time new HDB buyers and those who are upgrading to ECs who are required by law to sell their current HDB flats when they collect the keys to their new flats or ECs. Unless a few of the cooling measures are lifted and the foreigner employment policies are relaxed, the HDB Resale Price Index and the URA Residential Price Index are set to decline at a faster pace with the onslaught of new, completed home completions, even after taking into account the need for infrastructure to keep pace with population growth.
Supply in Iskandar
We must also not forget the promise of lower-cost properties across the Causeway in Iskandar.
The numerous Iskandar residential projects launched in Singapore since 2010, in locations such as Puteri Harbour, Danga Bay, Tebrau, Medini, etc, are now being completed.
They are ready to compete for tenants from Singapore seeking to reduce their housing costs and who do not mind making the commute between the countries. I estimate that over the next four years, about 10,000 new homes will be added per year in Iskandar and some of these will find tenants from Singapore with their attractive rents.
In the past six months, there has been an increase in the number of mortgagee home sales, with several headline-grabbing ones involving luxury condominiums in Sentosa Cove and the prime District 9. During the luxury property boom from 2006 to 2008, about 60 per cent of top-end apartments were purchased by foreigners. Some have held on to their investments, but they are now feeling stifled as a result of the multiple rounds of cooling measures, weak property demand and the restricted ability to refinance under the current regime.
For those who are willing to take a long-term view, say, 15 years and beyond, landed homes and high-quality freehold properties in Districts 9 and 10 would remain safe bets as these sub-segments are limited in terms of current stock and future supply.
As for now and the immediate future, as I forecast in a commentary in this column last year (“The price war has begun”, Nov 8, 2013), sellers are lowering prices and this will continue to take its toll on investors.
I recommend that investors sell their residential investments before they are engulfed by the tidal wave of new supply.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
Ku Swee Yong is a licensed real estate agent and the chief executive of property agency Century 21 Singapore. An author of two bestsellers, Real Estate Riches and Building Real Estate Riches, he has just launched his third book, Real Estate Realities —
[QUOTE=k00L;490188]Given JLD proximity to Iskandar, expect hollowing out effect on JLD.
10,000 Iskandar homes completed every year drawing tenants away from Jurong.
If you work in Tuas which is equivalent from JLD and Iskandar, would you pay SGD 3000/month for <500sqft Jgateway when one can pay half the amount and get double the size in Iskandar sea-facing condos in Putri Harbour?
Yes, dun be surprised that people will rather pay to stay within Singapore rather than JB. At least all my expat manager are doing it now, staying in lakeside condo and some in west coast side and working in Tuas, And I am talking about 20 over personnel just from my coy alone
Given JLD proximity to Iskandar, expect hollowing out effect on JLD.
10,000 Iskandar homes completed every year drawing tenants away from Jurong.
If you work in Tuas which is equivalent from JLD and Iskandar, would you pay SGD 3000/month for <500sqft Jgateway when one can pay half the amount and get double the size in Iskandar sea-facing condos in Putri Harbour?
I believe i mentioned something similar, butfor property around Woodland region center because with the new MRT iine that connects woodland to JB (which is only 5km at max), it will make it convenient enough for people to commute daily to work because they will not face any traffic problem like those using the causeway.
As for JLD, there is no such option and the distant is too far from both Tuas and woodland to have any impact. As for HSR, it is not designed for short distant commuting because it will be expensive. Plus people living choose to live in JLD is not because its cheap, its because if amenities, job, school etc.
Living in Iskandar is nothing new and there are already plenty of house in JB available. So where exactly is the hallowing out effect? Have you seen how long is the queue on 2nd link every morning? Can parents with kids going to school in Singapore possibly live in Iskandar?
Tuas link mrt station to be completed in 2016 is very near to tuas 2nd link causeway. The hallowing out effect will be felt then..... beware!
I believe i mentioned something similar, butfor property around Woodland region center because with the new MRT iine that connects woodland to JB (which is only 5km at max), it will make it convenient enough for people to commute daily to work because they will not face any traffic problem like those using the causeway.
As for JLD, there is no such option and the distant is too far from both Tuas and woodland to have any impact. As for HSR, it is not designed for short distant commuting because it will be expensive. Plus people living choose to live in JLD is not because its cheap, its because if amenities, job, school etc.
Living in Iskandar is nothing new and there are already plenty of house in JB available. So where exactly is the hallowing out effect? Have you seen how long is the queue on 2nd link every morning? Can parents with kids going to school in Singapore possibly live in Iskandar?
Tuas link mrt station to be completed in 2016 is very near to tuas 2nd link causeway. The hallowing out effect will be felt then..... beware!
you might want to check the distant between JLD to Tuas Link and also when you get to Tuas link, how are you going to get to Iskandar? By foot?
The only thing that is hallowing out is perhaps you ability to think logically
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 14:37
Tenants pay $3000 to rent a tiny shoebox <500sqft in j gateway n cook at the doorway n hear mrt noise everyday? Where is that quality of life? Caspian 950sqft two bedroom is already renting at $2900 in Aug 2014, I think downward pressure is very high in the months to come.
Given JLD proximity to Iskandar, expect hollowing out effect on JLD.
10,000 Iskandar homes completed every year drawing tenants away from Jurong.
If you work in Tuas which is equivalent from JLD and Iskandar, would you pay SGD 3000/month for <500sqft Jgateway when one can pay half the amount and get double the size in Iskandar sea-facing condos in Putri Harbour?
-------------------------------------
By Ku Swee Yong
[email protected]
Investors should sell their residential investments in Singapore. The property market, which has been gradually declining, does not need any new action to tip it over. Just the sheer number of new homes being supplied both in Singapore and Iskandar will drive prices lower.
New private home sales in Singapore have plunged in the past three months to about 40 per cent of the monthly average of the past five years or so.
Since January 2010, the average number of homes sold by developers each month has exceeded 1,300 units. The total number of new homes sold in June, July and August were 531, 560 and 490, respectively, including executive condominiums (EC). Excluding the hybrid housing type, the respective numbers were 482, 509, and 432, respectively, Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) and Century 21 (IPA) data showed.
Given seasonal factors, such as the Hungry Ghost Month and the quadrennial football World Cup, the three months of dismal private home sales will not be sufficient to render the residential sector a bear market. However, the downward trend can be confirmed by several other indicators.
The Housing and Development Board (HDB)’s resale price index, which has a direct impact on mass market private properties, has fallen 5.4 per cent over the past four quarters.
During the same period, the URA’s private residential price index slipped 3.4 per cent. The weakness is also reflected in the rental market, where median private non-landed rentals eased 1.1 per cent in the past four quarters to S$3.79 psf per month. Meanwhile, private residential occupancy rates fell to 92.9 per cent in the second quarter of this year from 93.9 per cent in the third quarter of last year. In absolute terms, the number of vacant units increased to 21,268 in the second quarter of this year from 17,459 in the third quarter of last year.
Taken together, it is evident that we experienced a slow decline over the past year. Will this gradual weakening lead to a soft landing? Or are we about to fall off the edge of a cliff? As a practising real estate agent, I find it tougher to hold up high rents for landlords. With the rising vacancy rates amid a stream of newly-completed properties, the competition for tenants is intense, especially with the Government tightening foreign employment.
Although some landlords have yet to tune themselves to this new reality, others have reacted quickly ahead of next year’s record high supply, which will further pressure rents.
Supply of HDB, EC UNITS and Private Residences
In the past 10 years, Singapore has added about 8,000 new private residential units per year. But next year, we can expect about 22,000 units to be completed and 24,000 the year after and at least 16,000 in 2017. The pressure on rents will be overwhelming. Lifting the property curbs will not help fill vacant apartments and improve rents.
The expected supply of new HDB flats and ECs is large as well. More than 25,000 units will be completed every year over the next three years. There are also many second-time new HDB buyers and those who are upgrading to ECs who are required by law to sell their current HDB flats when they collect the keys to their new flats or ECs. Unless a few of the cooling measures are lifted and the foreigner employment policies are relaxed, the HDB Resale Price Index and the URA Residential Price Index are set to decline at a faster pace with the onslaught of new, completed home completions, even after taking into account the need for infrastructure to keep pace with population growth.
Supply in Iskandar
We must also not forget the promise of lower-cost properties across the Causeway in Iskandar.
The numerous Iskandar residential projects launched in Singapore since 2010, in locations such as Puteri Harbour, Danga Bay, Tebrau, Medini, etc, are now being completed.
They are ready to compete for tenants from Singapore seeking to reduce their housing costs and who do not mind making the commute between the countries. I estimate that over the next four years, about 10,000 new homes will be added per year in Iskandar and some of these will find tenants from Singapore with their attractive rents.
In the past six months, there has been an increase in the number of mortgagee home sales, with several headline-grabbing ones involving luxury condominiums in Sentosa Cove and the prime District 9. During the luxury property boom from 2006 to 2008, about 60 per cent of top-end apartments were purchased by foreigners. Some have held on to their investments, but they are now feeling stifled as a result of the multiple rounds of cooling measures, weak property demand and the restricted ability to refinance under the current regime.
For those who are willing to take a long-term view, say, 15 years and beyond, landed homes and high-quality freehold properties in Districts 9 and 10 would remain safe bets as these sub-segments are limited in terms of current stock and future supply.
As for now and the immediate future, as I forecast in a commentary in this column last year (“The price war has begun”, Nov 8, 2013), sellers are lowering prices and this will continue to take its toll on investors.
I recommend that investors sell their residential investments before they are engulfed by the tidal wave of new supply.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
Ku Swee Yong is a licensed real estate agent and the chief executive of property agency Century 21 Singapore. An author of two bestsellers, Real Estate Riches and Building Real Estate Riches, he has just launched his third book, Real Estate Realities —
Wow! All these properties I bet their prices haven't moved much over past 3-4 years or their 99 years lease is running down? (since 99years LH properties will always become cheaper and cheaper as times go by to make up for the running down of the lease to expiry date...) :stung:
For those still want to doubt of D22 rental potential here is a list of rental yield for pretty much all D22 condo.
And these high yield are still achievable despite the sharp price appreciation over the last 3 to 4 years.
Summerdale : 4.2%
Lakepoint Condo : 4.2%
Lakeholmz : 4.2%
The Floravale : 4.2%
The Lakeshore : 4.0%
The Mayfair : 4.0%
The Lakefront Residences : 3.8%
Parc Oasis : 3.8%
Parc Vista : 3.7%
Caspian : 3.7%
Ivory Heights : 3.7%
So patrickstar, please name me a district that can top this.
Wow! All these properties I bet their prices haven't moved much over past 3-4 years or their 99 years lease is running down? (since 99years LH properties will always become cheaper and cheaper as times go by to make up for the running down of the lease to expiry date...) :stung:
this is what happen when you live in the well for too long.
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,200 800 to 900 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,800 1200 to 1300 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,800 1200 to 1300 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,700 1200 to 1300 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,500 1200 to 1300 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,500 800 to 900 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,600 1200 to 1300 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 900 to 1000 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 2,900 900 to 1000 Aug-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,400 800 to 900 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,800 1200 to 1300 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 4 5,200 1500 to 1600 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 5,000 1400 to 1500 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 900 to 1000 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 4,000 900 to 1000 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties na* 3,000 400 to 500 Jul-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 5,000 1400 to 1500 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 5,000 1400 to 1500 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,300 1200 to 1300 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,550 1000 to 1100 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,750 1000 to 1100 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,750 1400 to 1500 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,350 1000 to 1100 Jun-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,350 1300 to 1400 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 1000 to 1100 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,200 1100 to 1200 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,000 1100 to 1200 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,300 1200 to 1300 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,700 900 to 1000 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,800 1200 to 1300 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 4 5,500 1600 to 1700 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,800 900 to 1000 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,600 1200 to 1300 May-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties na* 3,200 400 to 500 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,300 1000 to 1100 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,200 1100 to 1200 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 1000 to 1100 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,100 800 to 900 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 900 to 1000 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,500 900 to 1000 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,800 1200 to 1300 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,000 1200 to 1300 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,800 800 to 900 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,200 800 to 900 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,000 1100 to 1200 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,200 1200 to 1300 Apr-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,000 1200 to 1300 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 4 4,800 1300 to 1400 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,300 1200 to 1300 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,800 1000 to 1100 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,300 1200 to 1300 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 4 5,800 1300 to 1400 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,400 800 to 900 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,500 1000 to 1100 Mar-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,100 800 to 900 Feb-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,500 900 to 1000 Feb-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 4 4,600 1500 to 1600 Feb-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties na* 2,700 400 to 500 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,280 1200 to 1300 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties na* 2,800 400 to 500 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,850 1200 to 1300 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 3,800 1100 to 1200 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 900 to 1000 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,700 1000 to 1100 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 4,200 800 to 900 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 4,200 1000 to 1100 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties na* 2,700 400 to 500 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties na* 2,600 400 to 500 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 900 to 1000 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,400 1000 to 1100 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,700 900 to 1000 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 2 3,600 900 to 1000 Jan-14
CASPIAN LAKESIDE DRIVE 22 Non-landed Properties 3 4,400 1200 to 1300 Jan-14
you might want to check the distant between JLD to Tuas Link and also when you get to Tuas link, how are you going to get to Iskandar? By foot?
The only thing that is hallowing out is perhaps you ability to think logically
Carrothead is always in a state of denial, especially bought at peak of the property cycle... right after Jgateway is sold out, property index is on the downhill....
if canadian international school in JLD is a magnet to expats, why lakeville which is next to the school still remains not sold out despite launching 6months ago? Our prime minister national rally speech also didnt help to boast the lakeville sale
if JLD is a magnet to MNCs, why capitaland divest westgate and choose not to base its headquarter to JLD?
MND also delay moving to JLD somewhere
Property experts already said pollution, crowded west-east mrt line and jammed AYE hindering JLD
Now Mr Ku Swee yong said threat of Iskandar....
Not to mention massive supply ...
how to justify 1700psf+ for Jgateway MM?
MND and URA are not moving anymore. They need to be in CBD given the strategic location. BCA and NEA are moving.
Carrothead is always in a state of denial, especially bought at peak of the property cycle... right after Jgateway is sold out, property index is on the downhill....
if canadian international school in JLD is a magnet to expats, why lakeville which is next to the school still remains not sold out despite launching 6months ago? Our prime minister national rally speech also didnt help to boast the lakeville sale
if JLD is a magnet to MNCs, why capitaland divest westgate and choose not to base its headquarter to JLD?
MND also delay moving to JLD somewhere
Property experts already said pollution, crowded west-east mrt line and jammed AYE hindering JLD
Now Mr Ku Swee yong said threat of Iskandar....
Not to mention massive supply ...
how to justify 1700psf+ for Jgateway MM?
Patrickstar
22-09-14, 22:48
J gateway attracted the bulk of the carrotheads with not many left behind. I really salute the developer for being able to position themselves perfectly to sweep up these carrotheads just before market heads south. Buyers are now cautious about lakeville.
Carrothead is always in a state of denial, especially bought at peak of the property cycle... right after Jgateway is sold out, property index is on the downhill....
if canadian international school in JLD is a magnet to expats, why lakeville which is next to the school still remains not sold out despite launching 6months ago? Our prime minister national rally speech also didnt help to boast the lakeville sale
if JLD is a magnet to MNCs, why capitaland divest westgate and choose not to base its headquarter to JLD?
MND also delay moving to JLD somewhere
Property experts already said pollution, crowded west-east mrt line and jammed AYE hindering JLD
Now Mr Ku Swee yong said threat of Iskandar....
Not to mention massive supply ...
how to justify 1700psf+ for Jgateway MM?
I will buy-in to JLD if Istana move to JLD..................... Yee Ha! :applause:
MND and URA are not moving anymore. They need to be in CBD given the strategic location. BCA and NEA are moving.
Carrothead is always in a state of denial, especially bought at peak of the property cycle... right after Jgateway is sold out, property index is on the downhill....
if canadian international school in JLD is a magnet to expats, why lakeville which is next to the school still remains not sold out despite launching 6months ago? Our prime minister national rally speech also didnt help to boast the lakeville sale
if JLD is a magnet to MNCs, why capitaland divest westgate and choose not to base its headquarter to JLD?
MND also delay moving to JLD somewhere
Property experts already said pollution, crowded west-east mrt line and jammed AYE hindering JLD
Now Mr Ku Swee yong said threat of Iskandar....
Not to mention massive supply ...
how to justify 1700psf+ for Jgateway MM?
Not too long ago, someone in this forum was also KPKBing in Caspian thread saying buyer of Caspian are Carrothead. Fast forward 3 to 4 years, prices of Caspian has almost doubled and even with the rise in price, it can still command a decent rental yield of 3.8%. CAPITAL APPRECIATION + RENTAL YIELD.
Those who keep barking about carrothead are perhaps those who are very weak in maths and economic or perhaps those who are inexperience with property investment and doesnt understand the simple concept supply demand. And perhaps thats the reason why despite all the talks they are unable to put what they say in numbers.
Caspian MM apartment has recently been transacted at $3100 per month, if we used this as benchmark, a $1700psf MM apartment at J Gateway which is high floor, unblock view overlooking Jurong Lake, will yield around 4.6%. And do you expect a property like J Gateway, the only residential development sitting right in the heart of the largest commercial center outside CBD will not command a premium?
Like I said before
Trolls will always be trolls
They come and they go
When J Gateway TOP
They will disappear in drove
Not too long ago, someone in this forum was also KPKBing in Caspian thread saying buyer of Caspian are Carrothead. Fast forward 3 to 4 years, prices of Caspian has almost doubled and even with the rise in price, it can still command a decent rental yield of 3.8%. CAPITAL APPRECIATION + RENTAL YIELD.
Those who keep barking about carrothead are perhaps those who are very weak in maths and economic or perhaps those who are inexperience with property investment and doesnt understand the simple concept supply demand. And perhaps thats the reason why despite all the talks they are unable to put what they say in numbers.
Caspian MM apartment has recently been transacted at $3100 per month, if we used this as benchmark, a $1700psf MM apartment at J Gateway which is high floor, unblock view overlooking Jurong Lake, will yield around 4.6%. And do you expect a property like J Gateway, the only residential development sitting right in the heart of the largest commercial center outside CBD will not command a premium?
Like I said before
Trolls will always be trolls
They come and they go
When J Gateway TOP
They will disappear in drove
your trumpet blew almost thousand pages, people get sick of the same old tunes.
close the book.
Patrickstar
23-09-14, 15:32
That carrothead thinks that j gateway will increase in value by 100% n still enjoy 3.8% after that increase just like Caspian...ROTFL...I think that carrothead is hallucinating n building castles in the air.
your trumpet blew almost thousand pages, people get sick of the same old tunes.
close the book.
That carrothead thinks that j gateway will increase in value by 100% n still enjoy 3.8% after that increase just like Caspian...ROTFL...I think that carrothead is hallucinating n building castles in the air.
its time he strip down this thread. the title is very irritating. bo kia lan tulan.
I am really enjoying this. JLD is the best and immune against anything and everything.
Not too long ago, someone in this forum was also KPKBing in Caspian thread saying buyer of Caspian are Carrothead. Fast forward 3 to 4 years, prices of Caspian has almost doubled and even with the rise in price, it can still command a decent rental yield of 3.8%. CAPITAL APPRECIATION + RENTAL YIELD.
Those who keep barking about carrothead are perhaps those who are very weak in maths and economic or perhaps those who are inexperience with property investment and doesnt understand the simple concept supply demand. And perhaps thats the reason why despite all the talks they are unable to put what they say in numbers.
Caspian MM apartment has recently been transacted at $3100 per month, if we used this as benchmark, a $1700psf MM apartment at J Gateway which is high floor, unblock view overlooking Jurong Lake, will yield around 4.6%. And do you expect a property like J Gateway, the only residential development sitting right in the heart of the largest commercial center outside CBD will not command a premium?
Like I said before
Trolls will always be trolls
They come and they go
When J Gateway TOP
They will disappear in drove
your trumpet blew almost thousand pages, people get sick of the same old tunes.
close the book.
I am not sure why do you even bother to post here because almost every time you post, you are only capable for posting 1 complete sentence. Its like only bones with no meat.
dancing skeleton?
I am really enjoying this. JLD is the best and immune against anything and everything.
the only one who say that JLD is immune against any shock is you.
Perhaps when people are jealous and running out of idea, they will do or say despicable and childish things like this.
I think the people who think their investments are immune are the landed property dweller (I dont even want to say they are investor because many are just living in their parents home)
Cash rich?
Limited supply?
Deep pocket?
Rich immigrant snapping up landed property?
Holding power?
Holding forever?
These are just myth created by stake holders to drum up the value of landed property.
I am not sure why do you even bother to post here because almost every time you post, you are only capable for posting 1 complete sentence. Its like only bones with no meat.
dancing skeleton?
One sentence is enough to irritate an idiot and make him gets uptight.
Patrickstar
23-09-14, 18:02
This is a circus thread in the forum for people to watch the clown in action.
its time he strip down this thread. the title is very irritating. bo kia lan tulan.
BEWARE...Dont miss the boat...expect big announcement in the coming months.
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/180/9sx6.jpg
Bird park going to Mandai because they don't need Bird to monitor the toxic air, they got lot of human to monitor instead.
Mandai makeover of zoo; Bird Park could be there too.
http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/mandai-makeover-zoo-bird-park-could-be-there-too
Smaller circle gonna die harder
Bird park going to Mandai because they don't need Bird to monitor the toxic air, they got lot of human to monitor instead.
Mandai makeover of zoo; Bird Park could be there too.
http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/mandai-makeover-zoo-bird-park-could-be-there-too
BCA, NEA, AVA and eventually MND will operate from Jurong Gateway. This underscore the importance and potential of JLD becoming the largest commercial center outside CBD.
BEWARE, big announcement coming soon.
BCA, NEA, AVA and eventually MND will operate from Jurong Gateway. This underscore the importance and potential of JLD becoming the largest commercial center outside CBD.
BEWARE, big announcement coming soon.
CPF Board is taking up 210,000 sq ft in Novena too, so Novena will huat big time ?
Manufacturing sector is getting hit due to current restructuring
That is why Jurong industrial land sale or rental is on the downhill
Singapore economy is shifting more towards service economy. There is a current office crunch in CBD due to expansion and new services oriented companies.
That is why CBD office rentals are going up 10% this year, especially grade A building
Residential market dynamics will play out in this manner
---------------------------
SINGAPORE (Reuters) – Data centre operator IO is just the kind of company Singapore wants to see in its future as cost pressures erode its competitiveness in the traditional low-end manufacturing that once helped make it an “Asian Tiger” economy.
U.S.-based IO took space last year in what was once part of Seagate Technology’s factory after the computer hardware maker shifted its hard-disk production in 2010 to cut costs. But whereas Seagate cut 2,000 employees when it moved out, IO Singapore brought just 20 when it moved in.
IO is not alone in picking Singapore, which is an important base for other data centres and many global banks, as well as a regional headquarters for multinational companies.
Singapore’s data centre market is expected to more than double to $550 million (337.18 million British pound) by 2017 from $223 million in 2010, according to consultancy Frost and Sullivan, despite challenges such as an equatorial climate and limited land.
As Singapore’s prosperity leaves its manufacturing base vulnerable to cheaper neighbours, it is banking on a business-friendly environment, advanced infrastructure, and its status as an Asian hub to attract high-value investments and businesses.
But the transition, which is getting added impetus from the government’s push to increase the economy’s productivity while reducing reliance on foreign workers, will not be smooth or immediate.
“Some of these companies which find the rising costs in Singapore too hard to bear, I think we’ll increasingly see them move to lower-cost locations,” said Michael Wan, an economist for Credit Suisse.
“There will definitely be some short-term pain, where you’ll see some relocation of some companies, but I think the more important thing to note is that there are also other companies shifting up the value chain,” Wan said.
Services, including data centres and the financial industry, accounted for 70.3 percent of Singapore’s gross domestic product in 2013, up from 64.4 percent in 2003, while manufacturing’s share fell to 18.8 percent from 26.0 percent.
The Economic Development Board said 21,400 new skilled jobs were created in 2013 from projects it brought in, led by gains in headquarter location and professional services.
The transition could hit some industries more than others.
“Restructuring is impacting manufacturing disproportionately and accelerating the shift towards a services-based economy,” said Bank of America Merrill Lynch economist Chua Hak Bin.
Output of electronics rose 1.6 percent in January-July from a year ago, lagging the 5.2 percent rise in total manufacturing output. Data on Friday is expected to show that industrial production was up 5.0 percent in August from a year ago, largely from increased biomedical output.
Domestic electronics exports slid 11.8 percent in January-August from a year ago, a drop that economists say may be in part a result of some electronics production moving to lower-cost countries.
In March, U.S. semiconductor company Broadcom shifted some of its operations from Singapore to Ireland as its tax incentives in the Southeast Asia nation expired.
Asked about the move, Jennifer Baumgartner, a senior manager for corporate communications at Broadcom, said in an email that “Singapore remains an essential Broadcom location and we are not materially changing any production”.
Seagate has not left Singapore completely. It has a recording media plant in the city-state, and is investing S$100 million ($80 million) in a research and development facility.
You should look at this data from SRX to tell you the prices of properties next to shopping malls. People are speculating that malls in the west is going to be prime.
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m356/DC33_2008/SRXPricesNerShoppingcentre26Sept2015_zps1c8a5c04.jpg (http://s332.photobucket.com/user/DC33_2008/media/SRXPricesNerShoppingcentre26Sept2015_zps1c8a5c04.jpg.html)
Manufacturing sector is getting hit due to current restructuring
That is why Jurong industrial land sale or rental is on the downhill
Singapore economy is shifting more towards service economy. There is a current office crunch in CBD due to expansion and new services oriented companies.
That is why CBD office rentals are going up 10% this year, especially grade A building
Residential market dynamics will play out in this manner
---------------------------
SINGAPORE (Reuters) – Data centre operator IO is just the kind of company Singapore wants to see in its future as cost pressures erode its competitiveness in the traditional low-end manufacturing that once helped make it an “Asian Tiger” economy.
U.S.-based IO took space last year in what was once part of Seagate Technology’s factory after the computer hardware maker shifted its hard-disk production in 2010 to cut costs. But whereas Seagate cut 2,000 employees when it moved out, IO Singapore brought just 20 when it moved in.
IO is not alone in picking Singapore, which is an important base for other data centres and many global banks, as well as a regional headquarters for multinational companies.
Singapore’s data centre market is expected to more than double to $550 million (337.18 million British pound) by 2017 from $223 million in 2010, according to consultancy Frost and Sullivan, despite challenges such as an equatorial climate and limited land.
As Singapore’s prosperity leaves its manufacturing base vulnerable to cheaper neighbours, it is banking on a business-friendly environment, advanced infrastructure, and its status as an Asian hub to attract high-value investments and businesses.
But the transition, which is getting added impetus from the government’s push to increase the economy’s productivity while reducing reliance on foreign workers, will not be smooth or immediate.
“Some of these companies which find the rising costs in Singapore too hard to bear, I think we’ll increasingly see them move to lower-cost locations,” said Michael Wan, an economist for Credit Suisse.
“There will definitely be some short-term pain, where you’ll see some relocation of some companies, but I think the more important thing to note is that there are also other companies shifting up the value chain,” Wan said.
Services, including data centres and the financial industry, accounted for 70.3 percent of Singapore’s gross domestic product in 2013, up from 64.4 percent in 2003, while manufacturing’s share fell to 18.8 percent from 26.0 percent.
The Economic Development Board said 21,400 new skilled jobs were created in 2013 from projects it brought in, led by gains in headquarter location and professional services.
The transition could hit some industries more than others.
“Restructuring is impacting manufacturing disproportionately and accelerating the shift towards a services-based economy,” said Bank of America Merrill Lynch economist Chua Hak Bin.
Output of electronics rose 1.6 percent in January-July from a year ago, lagging the 5.2 percent rise in total manufacturing output. Data on Friday is expected to show that industrial production was up 5.0 percent in August from a year ago, largely from increased biomedical output.
Domestic electronics exports slid 11.8 percent in January-August from a year ago, a drop that economists say may be in part a result of some electronics production moving to lower-cost countries.
In March, U.S. semiconductor company Broadcom shifted some of its operations from Singapore to Ireland as its tax incentives in the Southeast Asia nation expired.
Asked about the move, Jennifer Baumgartner, a senior manager for corporate communications at Broadcom, said in an email that “Singapore remains an essential Broadcom location and we are not materially changing any production”.
Seagate has not left Singapore completely. It has a recording media plant in the city-state, and is investing S$100 million ($80 million) in a research and development facility.
later that crown will show you those circles and shout something big is going to happen in the next coming months.
According to that idiot's theory yes!
Tan Tock Seng Hospital took up 1,000,000 sqft in Novena!
IRAS took up 600,000 sqft in Novena!
Mount Elizabeth Novena Hospital took up 500,000 sqft in Novena!
Royal Square First-class premium Medical Suites coming up!
Novena will be transformed to Singapore's biggest and most PREMIUM medical and healthcare hub!
Novena going to huat even much much more???
CPF Board is taking up 210,000 sq ft in Novena too, so Novena will huat big time ?
According to that idiot's theory yes!
Tan Tock Seng Hospital took up 1,000,000 sqft in Novena!
IRAS took up 600,000 sqft in Novena!
Mount Elizabeth Novena Hospital took up 500,000 sqft in Novena!
Royal Square First-class premium Medical Suites coming up!
Novena will be transformed to Singapore's biggest and most PREMIUM medical and healthcare hub!
Novena going to huat even much much more???
Medical and healthcare services is only one of the USPs for JLD, there are many more things which is happening in the west that you wont find in Novena.
Plus things are already happening in JLD even before these new jobs move into JLD, so please stop wasting your time trying to tell us 1 + 1 = 1 because it isnt.
Perhaps you should just stick with your wrong side of the CCR instead of trying to venture out into the west.
btw, hows the PSI for today?
You should look at this data from SRX to tell you the prices of properties next to shopping malls. People are speculating that malls in the west is going to be prime.
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m356/DC33_2008/SRXPricesNerShoppingcentre26Sept2015_zps1c8a5c04.jpg (http://s332.photobucket.com/user/DC33_2008/media/SRXPricesNerShoppingcentre26Sept2015_zps1c8a5c04.jpg.html)
Its important to note that the only condo that is located within 1km to JLD is Westmere (EC) and Ivory Height (HUDC).
If you want to have taste of JLD effect on HDB price, go check out the HDB price around toh guan area, because they are newer and larger units.
In response to R33 post, Why talk about hdb when this is a condo forum? 99LH EC is better comparison than 99LH hdb. Furthermore, westmere is not far from mrt too.
Let's see, mmm, Novena has everything people needs for living, BUT without the poisonous and hazardless gases and pollution generated by heavily industries 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year like those nearby JLD... So obviously Novena better than JLD lah!
Oh, forgot to say in future, there is another advantage for Novena: Novena does not have the noisy high speed train wipping past your homes from JB (every hour?), creating big noise pollution along the path it runs....... :cool:
Medical and healthcare services is only one of the USPs for JLD, there are many more things which is happening in the west that you wont find in Novena.
Plus things are already happening in JLD even before these new jobs move into JLD, so please stop wasting your time trying to tell us 1 + 1 = 1 because it isnt.
Perhaps you should just stick with your wrong side of the CCR instead of trying to venture out into the west.
btw, hows the PSI for today?
According to that idiot's theory yes!
Tan Tock Seng Hospital took up 1,000,000 sqft in Novena!
IRAS took up 600,000 sqft in Novena!
Mount Elizabeth Novena Hospital took up 500,000 sqft in Novena!
Royal Square First-class premium Medical Suites coming up!
Novena will be transformed to Singapore's biggest and most PREMIUM medical and healthcare hub!
Novena going to huat even much much more???
Let's see, mmm, Novena has everything people needs for living, BUT without the poisonous and hazardless gases and pollution generated by heavily industries 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year like those nearby JLD... So obviously Novena better than JLD lah!
Oh, forgot to say in future, there is another advantage for Novena: Novena does not have the noisy high speed train wipping past your homes from JB (every hour?), creating big noise pollution along the path it runs....... :cool:
In the first place.. Novena is totally different class of living as compared to jurong.. Dist. 11 do not have any HDB flat at all.. Central location & is very near to the city.. Mostly is FH
By just hanging around the shopping centre at novena & jurong.. You already can feel the difference class of ppl living in both location
Like you comparing Merc CLA 1.6 & Kia K3 1.6
In response to R33 post, Why talk about hdb when this is a condo forum? 99LH EC is better comparison than 99LH hdb. Furthermore, westmere is not far from mrt too.
Thats because the chart you provided is not comprehensive, its only a bunch of cherry pick project which doesnt make much sense.
For example malls like Jurong Point are not mentioned in this project because if you include that, Centris condo would have tell you a complete picture.
And btw, what exactly is the chart trying to say? that property near malls doesnt command premium? Are you kidding yourself?
When people are desperate, they will choose what they want to believe.,.
Jcube is closer to jgateway. U canfind the rest in srx website.
Thats because the chart you provided is not comprehensive, its only a bunch of cherry pick project which doesnt make much sense.
For example malls like Jurong Point are not mentioned in this project because if you include that, Centris condo would have tell you a complete picture.
And btw, what exactly is the chart trying to say? that property near malls doesnt command premium? Are you kidding yourself?
When people are desperate, they will choose what they want to believe.,.
Those circles denote earth quake zones effects? The further you are from the centre the safer you will be!
later that crown will show you those circles and shout something big is going to happen in the next coming months.
Patrickstar
27-09-14, 21:24
When I go to the malls in jurong, hoards of PRC with kids and ah neh can be seen around. Lots of tenants from these two groups love jurong.
In the first place.. Novena is totally different class of living as compared to jurong.. Dist. 11 do not have any HDB flat at all.. Central location & is very near to the city.. Mostly is FH
By just hanging around the shopping centre at novena & jurong.. You already can feel the difference class of ppl living in both location
Like you comparing Merc CLA 1.6 & Kia K3 1.6
When I go to the malls in jurong, hoards of PRC with kids and ah neh can be seen around. Lots of tenants from these two groups love jurong.
When you a born a racist you will always be a racist regardless what new forum name or account you used.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
AH NEH??
1000 pages of carrotheads.
Patrickstar
28-09-14, 01:38
Nothing else to bring up start talking about race? Wow, one term "ah neh" n you call someone a racist? Do you even know what race I am in the first place to even call me a racist? Lol....I think you better stop embarrassing n making a fool of yourself all over again.
When you a born a racist you will always be a racist regardless what new forum name or account you used.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
AH NEH??
Nothing else to bring up start talking about race? Wow, one term "ah neh" n you call someone a racist? Do you even know what race I am in the first place to even call me a racist? Lol....I think you better stop embarrassing n making a fool of yourself all over again.
Stop polluting this thread with all you nonsensical racist remark.
AH NEH?
Patrickstar
28-09-14, 13:38
Pollute the thread? ROTFL...
I think you are polluting the entire forum
Stop polluting this thread with all you nonsensical racist remark.
AH NEH?
1000 pages of carrotheads.
1000 pages within 15 months! That is the only impressive fact in this thread.
1000 pages within 15 months! That is the only impressive fact in this thread.
Haha...R33 blew more than 800 pages, very impressive.
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