View Full Version : Property price is coming down fast
haha...lost 10% now.....plus 4 yr SSD, by then down>50-60% in 2-3 yrs time....
Mr.THOMB.....:):) Market goes up and down, as long as can hold and property is FH or 999LH, one day it will be profitable.
Japan may be an exception, and I hope and believe that Singapore is different from Japan.
I am vested, and will buy in D1, D2, D9, D10, D15 when market corrects to my target range, but now priority is my business venture
D2, 5.5% yield. OTP done 2 weeks back. That is all I can reveal. LH99 and project less than 5 years old from TOP date.
Sounds good except the LH99 tenure. At least can happily collect rent for the time being.
He did post some "incorrect" information, such as the famous "80,000 unit". But other than that, think about it, not much of misleading "information" or incorrect facts, right?
plenty.
1) "SG developer cut price by 15% to 20% already".
2) "SOR12M jumped 1.2%"
3) "CME imminent billion dollar margin call last monday."
4) "European banks will bankrupt on Greece alone,"
5) "80,000 units"
6) "HK use SIBOR"
DP is right: he should just post whatever he found on Internet, and then keep the mouth shut, because he doesn't understand a thing about what he posted.
Market goes up and down, as long as can hold and property is FH or 999LH, one day it will be profitable.
Japan may be an exception, and I hope and believe that Singapore is different from Japan.
I am vested, and will buy in D1, D2, D9, D10, D15 when market corrects to my target range, but now priority is my business venture
that is why I said depend on your skill & knowledge....
how successful you are depend on how far you can see thing correctly....
this coming recession or depression is not a normal one...you will know in 2 yrs time...
If you sell 1 in Japan in 1990, now can buy 7-8 similar units....
I said down 50-60% in next 2-3 yrs....time will tell...will not share too detail with these personal attacked group....
business venture....talk to 10, 9 of them will tell you if they can maintain breakeven for next 1-2 yrs, they are happy....90% chance they will lose & lose big....will you be the 1 out of 10??......
plenty.
1) "SG developer cut price by 15% to 20% already".
2) "SOR12M jumped 1.2%"
3) "CME imminent billion dollar margin call last monday."
4) "European banks will bankrupt on Greece alone,"
5) "80,000 units"
6) "HK use SIBOR"
DP is right: he should just post whatever he found on Internet, and then keep the mouth shut, because he doesn't understand a thing about what he posted.
work harder.....:)
Agree - cash is liquid...
To be fair, there are many other places where you can park your money
if stocks drop, commodities drop, metals drops, precious metals drop, everything else drop ... will property still appreciate?
Cash is only one of the ways to park your money
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 11:33
hmmmm..wonder after paying my loan , how much will I get for this har:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/blackjack21trader/basic-1.jpg
D10 CORONATION RD WEST 0 4749 UN GT 28/10/11 7,280,000 1,533 OPE;OLD
wahlaueh... This can't be it right...OMG..wait a min, my capital outlay is 300K,
now is worth 9,000,000.（ my humble hut is 6000sqft lor ) after paying my bank loan of 2,700,000...I still get basically....
OMG
hehehehehehehehe
神龙股侠。
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 11:47
basically, the ones who missed the boat never learn....since time eternal...HAHAHAHAAH
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 11:49
Talking about skills and knowledge..yeah..skills in driving from KL to Singapore la...HAHAHAHAH
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 11:51
BASICALLY, I been through 3 crisis, and after every crisis, my assets just ballooned...the more serious the crisis, the bigger the balloon la CHIOKAPENG LA
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 11:53
BASICALLY..IT'S A NO BRAINER LA...HAHAHAHA
basically, the ones who missed the boat never learn....since time eternal...HAHAHAHAAH
office boy.....scan this old title....make a coffe for me now......:)
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 12:07
office boy.....so many old title huh....make a coffe for me....:)
wahhh you very zhun leh.. I used to be a blue collar earning only $800 a month...HAHAAHAHAAH
Talking about skills and knowledge..yeah..skills in driving from KL to Singapore la...HAHAHAHAH
your skill is to buy stock at top in Aug 1 using 85% of your total asset....typical buy peak sell bottom fool.....whole world know lah...kena force sell?? if not, very soon...all gone....:):)
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 12:09
wow 20 years can make a blue collar rise from the dirt to own several buildings now leh....HAHAHAAH
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 12:10
your skill is to buy stock at top in Aug 1 using 85% of your total asset....typical buy peak sell bottom fool.....whole world know lah...kena force sell?? if not, very soon...all gone....:):)
CHIOKAPENG LA.. you dunno who u are talking about, chew hu kia. HAHAHAHA
BASICALLY, I been through 3 crisis, and after every crisis, my assets just ballooned...the more serious the crisis, the bigger the balloon la CHIOKAPENG LA
your wife cried in 3 crisis because your head balloon & shorted, not because you lost all money, you in casket business huh....hahahah...lol lol.......:):)
My bestest advise:
Only buy stocks that go up. You'd make money every time.:doh:
wahhh you very zhun leh.. I used to be a blue collar earning only $800 a month...HAHAAHAHAAH
law firm office boy mah....what title also have....hehehe.....:)
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 12:13
your wife cried in 3 crisis because your head balloon & shorted, not because you lost all money, you in casket business huh....hahahah...lol lol.......:):)
I just love it when u rub salt on my wounds leh....HAHAHAHA
CHIOKAPENG LA.. you dunno who u are talking about, chew hu kia. HAHAHAHA
you lah.....gong kia...haha..I am local lah....:):)
I just love it when u rub salt on my wounds leh....HAHAHAHA
go back to your cage in woodbridge lor......:):)
bargain hunter
16-11-11, 12:43
Another wake-up call for Asia
The region can no longer afford to count on growth in export demand from Europe and the US to sustain economic development
By STEPHEN ROACH
FOR the second time in three years, global economic recovery is at risk. In 2008, it was all about the sub-prime crisis made in America. Today, it is the sovereign debt crisis made in Europe. The alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear across Asia. This export-led region can ill afford to ignore shocks to its two largest sources of external demand.
That's especially the case since both of these shocks will have long-lasting repercussions. In the United States, the American consumer remains in the wrenching throes of a Japanese-like balance sheet recession. In the 15 quarters since the beginning of 2008, real consumer expenditures have increased at just a 0.4 per cent average annual rate. Never before has the world's biggest consumer - and still 71 per cent of US GDP - been this weak for this long. Until American families make considerably more progress in reducing excess debt loads and rebuilding personal saving, a balance-sheet-constrained US economy will continue to be hobbled by exceedingly slow growth.
A comparable outcome is likely in Europe. Even under the now seemingly heroic assumption that the currency union survives, the outlook for the European economy is bleak. The crisis-torn peripheral economies - Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, and even Spain - are already in recession. And activity has flattened out in the once solid core of Germany and France, with leading indicators - especially sharply declining German orders data - flashing ominous signs of incipient weakness.
With the austerity of fiscal consolidation likely to restrain aggregate demand in the years ahead, and with capital-short banks likely to pull back on lending - a serious problem for Europe's bank-centric system of credit intermediation - a pan-European recession seems inevitable. The European Commission has just slashed its 2012 GDP growth forecast to 0.5 per cent. The risk of further cuts is high and rising.
Asia can ill-afford to ignore these developments. After all, how can an export-led region - still heavily dependent on external demand from Europe and the United States - be an oasis of prosperity in such a tough global climate?
http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/mnt/static/image/ax/quoteTop.gifUnless Asia wants to settle for slower growth, lagging labour absorption and heightened risks of social instability, it must move aggressively to shift its focus to the internal demand of its own 3.5 billion consumers. The imperatives of a consumer-led Asian rebalancing have never been greater.
http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/mnt/static/image/ax/quoteBot.gif
Yet denial is deep and momentum is seductive. After all, Asia has been on such a roll in recent years, there is widespread belief that this Teflon-like region can now shrug off almost anything that the rest of the world dishes out.
If it were only that easy. If anything, Asia's vulnerability to external shocks has intensified. On the eve of the Great Recession of 2008-09, exports had soared to a record 44 per cent of the combined GDP for Developing Asia - fully 10 percentage points higher than the export share prevailing during Asia's own crisis of 1997-98.
In other words, while post-crisis Asia focused on repairing the financial vulnerabilities that wreaked such havoc in the late 1990s - namely, amassing a vast reservoir of foreign exchange reserves, turning current account deficits into surpluses, and reducing its outsize exposure to short-term capital inflows - it failed to rebalance its macro structure away from export-led growth.
That meant when the shock of 2008-09 hit, every economy in the region either experienced a sharp slowdown or went into outright recession. That is very much the risk again today. After tumbling sharply in 2008-09, Developing Asia's export share is back up to its earlier highs of around 44 per cent - leaving the region just as exposed to an external demand shock today as it was heading into the sub-prime crisis three years ago.
China - long the engine of the all-powerful Asian growth machine - is a case in point. With Europe and the United States accounting for fully 38 per cent of total Chinese exports - easily its two largest foreign markets - China's vulnerability can hardly be minimised.
Contraction
The recent data flow leaves little doubt that Asia is now starting to feel the impact of the latest global shock. As was the case three years ago, China is leading the way, with year-over-year export comparisons tumbling from 31 per cent in 2010 to 16 per cent in October 2011. In Hong Kong, exports actually contracted by 3 per cent in September - the first year-over-year decline in 23 months. Similar trends are evident in sharply decelerating export comparisons in South Korea and Taiwan. Even India - long thought to be among the most resistant of Asia's economies to external shocks - year-over-year export comparisons plunged from 44 per cent in August 2011 to just 11 per cent in October.
As was the case three years ago, there is hope of an Asian decoupling - that this high-flying region will be immune to global shocks. Yet with GDP growth now slowing across the region, that is hardly the case. The good news is that a powerful investment-led impetus should be partly offsetting, and allows Asia's landing to be soft rather than hard. All bets would be off, however, in the event of a full-blown implosion in Europe.
This is Asia's second wake-up call in three years. It is high time to take the warning seriously. The region can no longer afford to count on solid growth in external demand from the developed world to sustain economic development. Unless Asia wants to settle for slower growth, lagging labour absorption and heightened risks of social instability, it must move aggressively to shift its focus to the internal demand of its own 3.5 billion consumers. The imperatives of a consumer-led Asian rebalancing have never been greater.
The writer is non-executive chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia, and is speaking at its 10th annual Asia Pacific Summit in Singapore from Nov 15 to 17. Mr Roach is also a member of the faculty of Yale University and the author of The Next Asia.
:D :ashamed1:
how about this?? chinese crooks, you will never know.....
Chinese Banking System Nearly Bankrupt Says HK Professor of Finance
Chinese Banking System Nearly Bankrupt Says Professor of Finance from HK University
Chinese Banking System Nearly Bankrupt Says Professor of Finance at the Chinese University of Hong Kong; Nothing Shocking About Mistrust, Lies, Suppression of News (http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/11/chinese-banking-system-nearly-bankrupt.html)
China’s economy has a reputation for being strong and prosperous, but according to a well-known Chinese television personality the country’s Gross Domestic Product is going in reverse.
Larry Lang, chair professor of Finance at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, said in a lecture that he didn’t think was being recorded that the Chinese regime is in a serious economic crisis—on the brink of bankruptcy. In his memorable formulation: every province in China is Greece.
The restrictions Lang placed on the Oct. 22 speech in Shenyang City, in northern China’s Liaoning Province, included no audio or video recording, and no media. He can be heard saying that people should not to post his speech online, or “everyone will look bad,” in the audio that is now on Youtube.
In the unusual, closed-door lecture, Lang gave a frank analysis of the Chinese economy and the censorship that is placed on intellectuals and public figures. “What I’m about to say is all true. But under this system, we are not allowed to speak the truth,” he said.
Despite Lang’s polished appearance on his high-profile TV shows, he said: “Don’t think that we are living in a peaceful time now. Actually the media cannot report anything at all. Those of us who do TV shows are so miserable and frustrated, because we cannot do any programs. As long as something is related to the government, we cannot report about it.”
He said that the regime doesn’t listen to experts, and that Party officials are insufferably arrogant. “If you don’t agree with him, he thinks you are against him,” he said.
plenty.
1) "SG developer cut price by 15% to 20% already".
2) "SOR12M jumped 1.2%"
3) "CME imminent billion dollar margin call last monday."
4) "European banks will bankrupt on Greece alone,"
5) "80,000 units"
6) "HK use SIBOR"
DP is right: he should just post whatever he found on Internet, and then keep the mouth shut, because he doesn't understand a thing about what he posted.
1) Not totally incorrect. They may not be in the news and varies from development to development, but 15% is not impossible. Just need to try your luck
2) 3) I cannot recall he said that. He may or may not, I don't know
4) If Greece defaults, I believe some European banks will bankrupt
5) He has clarify that he rounded up the numbers, although there is still a outstanding item of "150,000 units" to be clarify
6) I believe that it was just that he typed faster than his thought. It shall be the equivalent of SIBOR in HK. We shall be easily deduct from the context
I just feel that people are too tough on him, even ask him to shut up. Who are we to command that? It shall more like "I don't like your BS hence I say bye bye to this thread".
that is why I said depend on your skill & knowledge....
how successful you are depend on how far you can see thing correctly....
this coming recession or depression is not a normal one...you will know in 2 yrs time...
If you sell 1 in Japan in 1990, now can buy 7-8 similar units....
I said down 50-60% in next 2-3 yrs....time will tell...will not share too detail with these personal attacked group....
business venture....talk to 10, 9 of them will tell you if they can maintain breakeven for next 1-2 yrs, they are happy....90% chance they will lose & lose big....will you be the 1 out of 10??......
There is always risk associates with venture. As long as it is a calculated risk, why not?
You may have talked to the wrong ppl. Anyway, it is a norm for business venture to be loss-making for the first 1 or 2 years. This is business investment, not stock investment.
There is always risk associates with venture. As long as it is a calculated risk, why not?
You may have talked to the wrong ppl. Anyway, it is a norm for business venture to be loss-making for the first 1 or 2 years. This is business investment, not stock investment.
not I talked to them...last night TV program, interview small, medium to listed CEO....their comments...next 1 yr....many order cut 70-80% from external....all the down stream affected...
cancel order, stop shipment, settle debt 1st....nobody expanding....defensive & low profile....
read above by STEPHEN ROACH ....:)
not I talked to them...last night TV program, interview small, medium to listed CEO....their comments...next 1 yr....many order cut 70-80% from external....all the down stream affected...
cancel order, stop shipment, settle debt 1st....nobody expanding....defensive & low profile....
read above by STEPHEN ROACH ....:)
Agree, it will be tough for the next 2 years, for established or start-up companies
1) Not totally incorrect. They may not be in the news and varies from development to development, but 15% is not impossible. Just need to try your luck
2) 3) I cannot recall he said that. He may or may not, I don't know
4) If Greece defaults, I believe some European banks will bankrupt
5) He has clarify that he rounded up the numbers, although there is still a outstanding item of "150,000 units" to be clarify
6) I believe that it was just that he typed faster than his thought. It shall be the equivalent of SIBOR in HK. We shall be easily deduct from the context
I just feel that people are too tough on him, even ask him to shut up. Who are we to command that? It shall more like "I don't like your BS hence I say bye bye to this thread".
thanks, SpinCity...
don't bother to reply him...they want to go personal, will never listen...
all above if he read carefully thru' this thread slowly & try to understand, all explanation are there....they just try to attack & waste time....
I don't bother...just ignore.....
thomastansb
16-11-11, 13:26
Understand what? You still couldn't explain your 76,000 units to TOP in 2-3 years. Answer leh. I have been asking you and everyone is like waiting for your reply. Where are the 76,000 units that is going to TOP in 2-3 years time?
Tell us. I am not attacking you. I want to know where you get that from. Everyone is waiting.
thanks, SpinCity...
don't bother to reply him...they want to go personal, will never listen...
all above if he read carefully thru' this thread slowly & try to understand, all explanation are there....they just try to attack & waste time....
I don't bother...just ignore.....
thomastansb
16-11-11, 13:29
My sole aim is just rental. Sold off too many early this year. Gonna the 4 years SSD and 40% down somemore but I am not looking to sell this in the next 10 years so it is fine. Location is good and unblock for the time being and high floor. So I couldn't complain either so just collect rental lor.
Sounds good except the LH99 tenure. At least can happily collect rent for the time being.
My sole aim is just rental. Sold off too many early this year. Gonna the 4 years SSD and 40% down somemore but I am not looking to sell this in the next 10 years so it is fine. Location is good and unblock for the time being and high floor. So I couldn't complain either so just collect rental lor.
mr.THOMB, no need to explain....down >50% in next 2-3 yrs, rental for what??....
kena retrench next yr, disappear overnight...drill holes here & there, pour water in pacquet....never wash for months, you can clean up slowly....:)
My sole aim is just rental. Sold off too many early this year. Gonna the 4 years SSD and 40% down somemore but I am not looking to sell this in the next 10 years so it is fine. Location is good and unblock for the time being and high floor. So I couldn't complain either so just collect rental lor.
Congrats! 5.5% rental yield is hard to come by nowadays!
Again, risks always come with return or vice versa. As long as the risk is calculated, why not? In life, we are all responsible to our decisions
proud owner
16-11-11, 13:40
Congrats! 5.5% rental yield is hard to come by nowadays!
how does one calculate rental yield ?
assuming my house is valued at 2.8 mio ... fully paid .. renting at 10k ...
how does one calculate rental yield ?
assuming my house is valued at 2.8 mio ... fully paid .. renting at 10k ...
5.5%?? dreaming....china is 1.5% rental yield now,some more is gross....
next yr retrenchment big way....tons of rent to let....rental will drop drastically...even can't rent out unless LELONG or very hard up.....:):)
how does one calculate rental yield ?
assuming my house is valued at 2.8 mio ... fully paid .. renting at 10k ...
Gross rental yield shall be 10k*12/2.8m = 4.3%
Guess I am too free today, post on this thread every 5 min? hahahaha
Basic,
You have your views and rational why the market will turn out in a certain way. We understand this and there certainly is no wrong in this. The problem (my view and a number of posters here) is you tend to make up certain conclusions from your postings that have been proven to be nothing more than numbers plucked from thin air and trying to force it down everyone who disagree with you.
You just need to admit that yes, certain figures and postings are made without any basis and we can move on. Or if you insist that they are correct, to just show the supporting and not dodge the question.
There are some remarks that i agree are personal attacks or bordering on personal attacks but that's also a result of you having a go at them first. Likewise, the only reason why a number of posters are still giving you *hit so to speak is because you refuse to acknowledge that you have been wrong in a number of your posts.
Granted, the economy may do well go pear shape in the coming years and in the end, your views may prove to be correct. That doesn't excuse you from coming up with non-factual data in order to get people to agree with you now.
I'm sure most of us, if proven to be wrong by yourself or any other posters will be the first to admit that they are wrong, learn from the mistake/experience and come out a better person.
why whole world is in debt today?? main reason is super high top management pay across the world...salary & pay has escalated too much in last 20 yrs...they supposed to fix it in 2009, but bernanke print to pay them again....this time, the world is gong to fix this salary issue globally..in this coming crisis....a global pay cut is coming....
they deserve these?? no risk taking, just collect payment & salary, no bankruptcy, family not in risk....all employees in this world, how good you are should not collect >US$3mil/yr, for spore, max. S$500k/yr...as no risk JOB....go for your own business & risk your family life, then you deserve it....
OUTRAGE: Fannie and Freddie execs enjoy $100m post-bailout payday… and it’s all funded by U.S. taxpayers
November 15th, 2011
Top five Fannie executives raked in $33.3m in 2009/2010
Mortgage giant Freddie’s top five received $28.1m
Both set pay targets of $17m for top dogs this year
Fat cat executives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have received huge taxpayer-funded pay packets of $100million since they were bailed out.
The top five executives at Fannie raked in $33.3million in 2009 and 2010 and the top five at Freddie received $28.1million, following the 2008 crash.
The government-controlled mortgage giants have both set pay targets of up to $17million for their top managers this year, which totals $95.4million.
thomastansb
16-11-11, 13:51
I use rental * 12 / purchase price. Easiest method but not the best way.
The more accurate one should be :-
[ (Rental x 12) - (Maintenance p.a + taxes + admin fees) - (bank interest) ]/ (Cash layout). Give me about 15%. Would have been 25% if I down 20% only. So 15% returns based on my cash outlay, I think it is good enough for me.
how does one calculate rental yield ?
assuming my house is valued at 2.8 mio ... fully paid .. renting at 10k ...
thomastansb
16-11-11, 13:53
I am okay to drop the rental actually. I loan 60% only. In fact, I can half my rental and still getting cash back @ 4% interest.
5.5%?? dreaming....china is 1.5% rental yield now,some more is gross....
next yr retrenchment big way....tons of rent to let....rental will drop drastically...even can't rent out unless LELONG or very hard up.....:):)
1) Not totally incorrect. They may not be in the news and varies from development to development, but 15% is not impossible. Just need to try your luck
2) 3) I cannot recall he said that. He may or may not, I don't know
4) If Greece defaults, I believe some European banks will bankrupt
5) He has clarify that he rounded up the numbers, although there is still a outstanding item of "150,000 units" to be clarify
6) I believe that it was just that he typed faster than his thought. It shall be the equivalent of SIBOR in HK. We shall be easily deduct from the context
I just feel that people are too tough on him, even ask him to shut up. Who are we to command that? It shall more like "I don't like your BS hence I say bye bye to this thread".
1) is a total lie.
2) I posted a live bloomberg chart to him and he still did not admit the mistake
3) Of course he did. I was in the market then !
4) he said 70% of European banks will bankrupt on greece alone
Ppl are tough on him for a reason. He is rude, ignorant, and outright liar.
Hiding behind a keyboard acting tough is one thing, claiming fictitious market info and refusing to face up to fact is another. If he dares to name the project or developer in 1), he will be sued for sure !
1) is a total lie.
2) I posted a live bloomberg chart to him and he still did not admit the mistake
3) Of course he did. I was in the market then !
4) he said 70% of European banks will bankrupt on greece alone
Ppl are tough on him for a reason. He is rude, ignorant, and outright liar.
Hiding behind a keyboard acting tough is one thing, claiming fictitious market info and refusing to face up to fact is another. If he dares to name the project or developer in 1), he will be sued for sure !
wasting time...read carefully.....:)
I use rental * 12 / purchase price. Easiest method but not the best way.
The more accurate one should be :-
[ (Rental x 12) - (Maintenance p.a + taxes + admin fees) - (bank interest) ]/ (Cash layout). Give me about 15%. Would have been 25% if I down 20% only. So 15% returns based on my cash outlay, I think it is good enough for me.
The downside risks to me are:
1) Property is illiquid, especially when there is uncertainty in the global economy. If you need cash for some uses, it may be hard to cash out, and the price may not good
2) 99LH, both the land and building value depreciate over time
But you did get a good deal in terms of rental! Congrats again
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:00
Yup. The risk is there and no one really knows when property will drop and by how much. Maybe go up 10% this year or drop 10% this year or 50% in the next 2-3 years. No one knows. You still need a basket of investments to cater for "what if" scenarios. What if property don't drop for the next 3 years? We need to take time into consideration as well. If you wait 3 years, you are losing out. For me, that is 15% a year which will see me recoup back half of my capital outlay in 3 years.
Like what basic has said, sell everything now and wait for 50% drop. If only life is that easy.
Congrats! 5.5% rental yield is hard to come by nowadays!
Again, risks always come with return or vice versa. As long as the risk is calculated, why not? In life, we are all responsible to our decisions
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:07
Thanks.
That is why need to weigh your own portfolio. To me, you need cash and assets and everyone's position is different. Some like smaller risk and keep more cash or downpay more. Some like bigger risk, take more assets and bet on the low interest environment. I always use 3.5% interest rate to calculate the worst scenario. Anyway, interest has been around 3% on average for the past 10 years so that should be a fair indicator. Anything below 3%, just take it as bonus. If property is too illiquid or too expensive, then go for something more "liquid" like REITS or trusts. If you analyse it carefully, then you will know what you need. But never over commit.
The downside risks to me are:
1) Property is illiquid, especially when there is uncertainty in the global economy. If you need cash for some uses, it may be hard to cash out, and the price may not good
2) 99LH, both the land and building value depreciate over time
But you did get a good deal in terms of rental! Congrats again
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:08
So have you managed to get the 76,000 units that are going to TOP in 2-3 years time?
wasting time...read carefully.....:)
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:14
The world has always been in debt since don't know when. It is normal.
But France will be downgraded soon IMO. Italy is gone case no matter who take over the Government.
why whole world is in debt today?? main reason is super high top management pay across the world...salary & pay has escalated too much in last 20 yrs...they supposed to fix it in 2009, but bernanke print to pay them again....this time, the world is gong to fix this salary issue globally..in this coming crisis....a global pay cut is coming....
they deserve these?? no risk taking, just collect payment & salary, no bankruptcy, family not in risk....all employees in this world, how good you are should not collect >US$3mil/yr, for spore, max. S$500k/yr...as no risk JOB....go for your own business & risk your family life, then you deserve it....
So have you managed to get the 76,000 units that are going to TOP in 2-3 years time?
I have wth me....you find yourself...answer so many times....:)
The world has always been in debt since don't know when. It is normal.
But France will be downgraded soon IMO. Italy is gone case no matter who take over the Government.
debt end is here, that is all...
France & Italy...time only....global domino will fall...soon...that is why spore property down>50% in netx 2-3 yrs & rental down even more.......:)
proud owner
16-11-11, 14:28
i have been thinking :
if i have, say $ 1mio now ,
it can become $ 1.5 mio ( if Basic is wrong) within 2-3 yrs
it can become $ 0.5 mio ( if Basic is right ) within 2-3 yrs
with all thats going on outside singapore ... we are an Island state, but we know, no country is an island .. external forces can impact us ..
i rather 'listen' and stay away from buying ... and remain a $ 1mio-naire
$ 1.5 or $ 1.5 mio is still a millionaire , doesnt make much difference to me ...
but if drops to $ 0.5 mio ... i will be out of the Millionaire league
1) is a total lie.
2) I posted a live bloomberg chart to him and he still did not admit the mistake
3) Of course he did. I was in the market then !
4) he said 70% of European banks will bankrupt on greece alone
Ppl are tough on him for a reason. He is rude, ignorant, and outright liar.
Hiding behind a keyboard acting tough is one thing, claiming fictitious market info and refusing to face up to fact is another. If he dares to name the project or developer in 1), he will be sued for sure !
1) I believe if you spend time to try, you will get surprises. 15% is not a total lie.
2) I recall now
3) As I said earlier, I don't know
4) That MAY happen due to domino effects, right? Think about what happened in 2008, more banks could have belly-uped if there were not a global efforts to save them
Again, just give him a break. Why demand him to shut up? Why demand him to apologize? He is not the only one who ever post something incorrect, and he is not the rudest one in this forum.
Anyway, I am not defending him, just try to reduce the non-sense posts in this thread
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:35
I think I trust URA more. At least everyone can see from URA. Unlike yours, you claim you have it with yourself but when people ask, you cannot show. Things are more credible when people can see it.
I have wth me....you find yourself...answer so many times....:)
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:39
You can spend 300k and buy something (property or whatever) to generate a 10% yield.
By the end of 3 years, you have 700k + 100k (from yield) = 800k. Just an idea. Of course, different people different risk appetite. No risk = no gain. In fact, no risk = loss because of 5.5% inflation.
i have been thinking :
if i have, say $ 1mio now ,
it can become $ 1.5 mio ( if Basic is wrong) within 2-3 yrs
it can become $ 0.5 mio ( if Basic is right ) within 2-3 yrs
with all thats going on outside singapore ... we are an Island state, but we know, no country is an island .. external forces can impact us ..
i rather 'listen' and stay away from buying ... and remain a $ 1mio-naire
$ 1.5 or $ 1.5 mio is still a millionaire , doesnt make much difference to me ...
but if drops to $ 0.5 mio ... i will be out of the Millionaire league
I think I trust URA more. At least everyone can see from URA. Unlike yours, you claim you have it with yourself but when people ask, you cannot show. Things are more credible when people can see it.
so what URA telling you uncompleted units in the pipeline.....:)
You can spend 300k and buy something (property or whatever) to generate a 10% yield.
By the end of 3 years, you have 700k + 100k (from yield) = 800k. Just an idea. Of course, different people different risk appetite. No risk = no gain. In fact, no risk = loss because of 5.5% inflation.
in life,everyone got to take some risk. but some min calculated risk.
i seen the prices boom to 100% returns, meaning it can also wipe 100% in losses.
losses: 5.5% vs 100% which one u pick?:D
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:48
I don't see how changing Government will help Italy. The problem is not solved. Seriously, it is a matter of time before the bonds hit 8%.
debt end is here, that is all...
France & Italy...time only....global domino will fall...soon...that is why spore property down>50% in netx 2-3 yrs & rental down even more.......:)
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:53
You can't compare 5.5% to 100%. You are comparing apples to orange now.
The 100% loss is based on leveraging I believe. You down 20%, and property drop 20%.
You need to use the cash returns on cash formula. Usually, it is around 20 to 30% returns based on 80% loan.
So 20 to 30% gamble on 100%, I will commit. Remember, 100% loss is not realised until you sell it so I can just hold on and get 20-30% yield or maybe lesser during recession for 10 years. Until the prices recover. 5 years, I will breakeven already.
in life,everyone got to take some risk. but some min calculated risk.
i seen the prices boom to 100% returns, meaning it can also wipe 100% in losses.
losses: 5.5% vs 100% which one u pick?:D
thomastansb
16-11-11, 14:57
URA is telling us the expected completed unit for every year. 30,000 units in the next 3 years.
I am not against your bearish view. In fact, I share the same view but of lesser intensity. I am just questioning the integrity of your information.
so what URA telling you uncompleted units in the pipeline.....:)
You can't compare 5.5% to 100%. You are comparing apples to orange now.
The 100% loss is based on leveraging I believe. You down 20%, and property drop 20%.
You need to use the cash returns on cash formula. Usually, it is around 20 to 30% returns based on 80% loan.
So 20 to 30% gamble on 100%, I will commit. Remember, 100% loss is not realised until you sell it so I can just hold on and get 20-30% yield or maybe lesser during recession for 10 years. Until the prices recover. 5 years, I will breakeven already.
ur comparison aso diff wad. apple vs orange.
3 yrs rental yield 100k, becos u down 40%.
20%, maybe 50k in cash returns in 3 yrs?
but for average joe out there, 20% is all wad they down or have.
diff pple, diff style, diff risk appetite, diff tatic
URA is telling us the expected completed unit for every year. 30,000 units in the next 3 years.
I am not against your bearish view. In fact, I share the same view but of lesser intensity. I am just questioning the integrity of your information.
go & read, don't just use mouth.....I finally copy for you from URA website, I reluctant to do so, this is last time....
stop argue from here, need 3 yrs or 30 yrs to complete....
go & read my original sentences, I put 2-3 yrs, now the supply is already there.....
Supply in the Pipeline
As at the end of 3rd Quarter 2011, there was a total supply of 76,255 uncompleted private residential units from projects in the pipeline, higher than the 71,111 units in 2nd Quarter 2011
I use rental * 12 / purchase price. Easiest method but not the best way.
The more accurate one should be :-
[ (Rental x 12) - (Maintenance p.a + taxes + admin fees) - (bank interest) ]/ (Cash layout). Give me about 15%. Would have been 25% if I down 20% only. So 15% returns based on my cash outlay, I think it is good enough for me.
I have been doing some calculation.
Your 15% is gross yield on cash basis?
or 25% gross yield on cash basis if downpayment 20%?
bo koh leng lah. URA website cant be trusted. must be pluck from air one.:doh:
go & read, don't just use mouth.....I finally copy for you from URA website, I reluctant to do so, this is last time....
stop argue from here, need 3 yrs or 30 yrs to complete....
go & read my original sentences, I put 2-3 yrs, now the supply is already there.....
Supply in the Pipeline
As at the end of 3rd Quarter 2011, there was a total supply of 76,255 uncompleted private residential units from projects in the pipeline, higher than the 71,111 units in 2nd Quarter 2011
I am okay to drop the rental actually. I loan 60% only. In fact, I can half my rental and still getting cash back @ 4% interest.
how do you get that calculation?
based on $1million property
mortgage 60% = $600k.
tenure assume 35 years to reduce monthly payment.
rate 4%
mortgage P+I payment = 2656.65
gross rental yield 5.5%
rental per month = 55k / 12 = 4583.33
if you half your rental, = 2291.67
which is less than monthly payment of 2656.65, ie cash outflow
so curious as to how you can half your rental and still get cash back at mortgage rate of 4%.
bo koh leng lah. URA website cant be trusted. must be pluck from air one.:doh:
PIPELINE... not immediately 80k units available, must see which yr top the most. From what I see it is 2015
thomastansb
16-11-11, 15:46
Nope. Returns still the same. 100k means 100k isn't it? But my returns in % is significantly lower because I come out with more capital. Yield = Returns / Capital invested.
ur comparison aso diff wad. apple vs orange.
3 yrs rental yield 100k, becos u down 40%.
20%, maybe 50k in cash returns in 3 yrs?
but for average joe out there, 20% is all wad they down or have.
diff pple, diff style, diff risk appetite, diff tatic
.......
So 20 to 30% gamble on 100%, I will commit. Remember, 100% loss is not realised until you sell it so I can just hold on and get 20-30% yield or maybe lesser during recession for 10 years. Until the prices recover. 5 years, I will breakeven already.
I assume based on cash-on-cash returns, in 5 years, you can breakeven already? I think that it is based on your cash-on-cash yield of 15%. (gross or net?)
I think forummers here, me included, are interested to know your calculation.
thomastansb
16-11-11, 15:47
My tenure is 40 years. With OCBC.
how do you get that calculation?
based on $1million property
mortgage 60% = $600k.
tenure assume 35 years to reduce monthly payment.
rate 4%
mortgage P+I payment = 2656.65
gross rental yield 5.5%
rental per month = 55k / 12 = 4583.33
if you half your rental, = 2291.67
which is less than monthly payment of 2656.65, ie cash outflow
so curious as to how you can half your rental and still get cash back at mortgage rate of 4%.
thomastansb
16-11-11, 15:49
Pipeline means completion in 2-3 years time? I would expect only about half to TOP at most. Looking at the past 3 years of launches of about 40,000 units, they have till 2017-2019 to complete. So why should they complete so soon?
go & read, don't just use mouth.....I finally copy for you from URA website, I reluctant to do so, this is last time....
stop argue from here, need 3 yrs or 30 yrs to complete....
go & read my original sentences, I put 2-3 yrs, now the supply is already there.....
Supply in the Pipeline
As at the end of 3rd Quarter 2011, there was a total supply of 76,255 uncompleted private residential units from projects in the pipeline, higher than the 71,111 units in 2nd Quarter 2011
... and stay away from buying ... and remain a $ 1mio-naire
A lot of my friends , and myself included, had already stopped buying pty since Jan 2011.
However to sell away all ur pty and go on renting, hoping for a 50% crash next year, like the infamous TS is doing, is a very different thing. That is to short the market massively.
thomastansb
16-11-11, 15:54
Of course it is cash on cash, ignoring the value of property. 20% is easily achievable.
I assume based on cash-on-cash returns, in 5 years, you can breakeven already? I think that it is based on your cash-on-cash yield of 15%. (gross or net?)
I think forummers here, me included, are interested to know your calculation.
My tenure is 40 years. With OCBC.
40yrs? Loan tenure can take that long?
My tenure is 40 years. With OCBC.
if tenure 40 year,
P+I monthy payment = 2507.63
1/2 rental per month still 2291.67
still cash outflow per month.
Pipeline means completion in 2-3 years time? I would expect only about half to TOP at most. Looking at the past 3 years of launches of about 40,000 units, they have till 2017-2019 to complete. So why should they complete so soon?
I don't want to argue anymore...the number is there, the supply is there......say what you like, like many here, 60% in this thread all personal attack on me on such nonsense....real rubbish....
show me you URA number 30000/yr supply???....where??....liar??...
wasting time....:)
Of course it is cash on cash, ignoring the value of property. 20% is easily achievable.
"gross cash-on-cash 20%" (achieveable) or "net cash-on-cash 20%" (errr....like to see calculation).
I don't want to argue anymore...the number is there, the supply is there......say what you like, like many here, 60% in this thread all personal attack on me on such nonsense....real rubbish....
wasting time....:)
ah yar basic, just continue posting ur news, we r cool with that but dun call pple fools can liao.. these fools will be selling you firesales right?
ah yar basic, just continue posting ur news, we r cool with that but dun call pple fools can liao.. these fools will be selling you firesales right?
you can call, I can't?...haha....
copy & paste, within 1 mins, time to stop I will stop....
sporean these days...I see a lot from this forum....:)
40yrs? Loan tenure can take that long?
hehe, thomas is a young chap, i think maximum age 70 years or 40year loan.
so thomas is less than 30 year old chap or his co-buyer (spouse?) is less than 30 year old.
4) That MAY happen due to domino effects, right?
He specifically claimed 70% will bankrupt with Greece alone. He does not know the size of european banks' balance sheet. He just has a very poor knowledge of th financial market. For example why US 10y yield is only 2%.
Look I seriously dun know why u r defending him, and helping him to find excuses. The only reason I listed out his outright lies is for you to see what kind of person he is, since u join the thread late. There is no shortage of bears here. Insightful discussion is helpful, whereas spreading malicious rumors is not.
Mark my words: the purpose of his initial post is simple, to create a rumor that a Singapore developer HAS dropped prices by 15%. This is not a "bearish view".
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:11
Wat u guys tink a millionaire portfolio shd be consist of now? 50% in ppty and the rest in cash n equities? Wats the percentage shd one hold onto ppty now?
Can i say 50% is the tipping point? Less den tat = bear and vice versa? I am more den 50% on ppty now....so i am a bull....lol
y no replies one.....:(
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:13
i have been thinking :
if i have, say $ 1mio now ,
it can become $ 1.5 mio ( if Basic is wrong) within 2-3 yrs
it can become $ 0.5 mio ( if Basic is right ) within 2-3 yrs
with all thats going on outside singapore ... we are an Island state, but we know, no country is an island .. external forces can impact us ..
i rather 'listen' and stay away from buying ... and remain a $ 1mio-naire
$ 1.5 or $ 1.5 mio is still a millionaire , doesnt make much difference to me ...
but if drops to $ 0.5 mio ... i will be out of the Millionaire league
mind sharing wats % of ur total portfolio in ppty now?
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:18
1) I believe if you spend time to try, you will get surprises. 15% is not a total lie.
Spore too, many developers already giving discount of 15-20% to get rid of their holding as they know, the later they get out, lost will be higher. Resale owners down price more than developers in order to let go their units as tons of sellers out there, >150,000 units now in the market for sales, no buyers now due to property is illiquid investment, any collapse of economy in PIIGS in Europe or further downgrade of USA this month or China local govt debt or Japan debt will immediately turn the world into double dip recession, domino effect to pull whole world down to standstill economy.
spincity......how u comprehend the above statement in red? i cut and paste the very first post by basic
hehe, thomas is a young chap, i think maximum age 70 years or 40year loan.
so thomas is less than 30 year old chap or his co-buyer (spouse?) is less than 30 year old.
Actually, now it is age of 75 years
He specifically claimed 70% will bankrupt with Greece alone. He does not know the size of european banks' balance sheet. He just has a very poor knowledge of th financial market. For example why US 10y yield is only 2%.
Look I seriously dun know why u r defending him, and helping him to find excuses. The only reason I listed out his outright lies is for you to see what kind of person he is, since u join the thread late. There is no shortage of bears here. Insightful discussion is helpful, whereas spreading malicious rumors is not.
Mark my words: the purpose of his initial post is simple, to create a rumor that a Singapore developer HAS dropped prices by 15%. This is not a "bearish view".
Actually, I follow the thread from the very beginning, but hand only got itches when seeing so many personal attacks: he call people fools, people attack him and his wife, kids, and family. These attacks are totally non-sense to me.
I am not defending him but just think if one side stop, the non-sense posts will die down.
his statement of 70% bank will go bankrupt is as good (or bad) as some claim that "the market will correct at most 10% - 20%", right? everybody entitles his/her own view.
Give him a break, we all stop badmouthing, peace peace!
Actually, now it is age of 75 years
a sign of progress ;).
I am praying Singapore government will allow multi generation loans. It is still affordable as long as mortgage repayment 30% of income. Imagine, the capital appreciation :D:D:D.
Those knowledgable, the tenure of mortgage determine by MAS or by banks?
Who decide maximum 40 years loan or maximum 75 years old, MAS or banks?
can banks increase to tenure 70 years?
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:27
a sign of progress ;).
I am praying Singapore government will allow multi generation loans. It is still affordable as long as mortgage repayment 30% of income. Imagine, the capital appreciation :D:D:D.
Those knowledgable, the tenure of mortgage determine by MAS or by banks?
Who decide maximum 40 years loan or maximum 75 years old, MAS or banks?
can banks increase to tenure 70 years?
set by MAS
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:29
Actually, I follow the thread from the very beginning, but hand only got itches when seeing so many personal attacks: he call people fools, people attack him and his wife, kids, and family. These attacks are totally non-sense to me.
I am not defending him but just think if one side stop, the non-sense posts will die down.
his statement of 70% bank will go bankrupt is as good (or bad) as some claim that "the market will correct at most 10% - 20%", right? everybody entitles his/her own view.
Give him a break, we all stop badmouthing, peace peace!
we attack him....yes
but i dun tink anyone of us attack his family members.....only one guy mentioned something like he pity his wife and kids......
pls dun take it too seriously.....
just to add: basic attacks bro blackjack's wife.......so how?
y no replies one.....:(
U only say millionaire, is it the 1 milliion type or the 100mil type.
a lot of diff leh.
haha
spincity......how u comprehend the above statement in red? i cut and paste the very first post by basic
Thanks for not calling me color blind this time. :spliff:
My reading is, some developers are giving 15%-20% discount NOW
Frankly, I don't think that it is completely a lie
there can be cases here and there, although may be rare, that developers do give 15%-20% discount. I know 5% is definitely certain, 10% possible, 15% far-stretching but who knows? Please don't ask me to name the developments. Just shop around and you may find surprise
All I can say is that this statement is very very exaggerating
For those people questioned him on this statement, I would say that more want to prove him wrong than get a lobang from him. If you are the person who know the good deal but get attacked for it, why would him share?
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:34
U only say millionaire, is it the 1 milliion type or the 100mil type.
a lot of diff leh.
haha
more den 1mil can oredi la.....small keh here also mah....whahaha
we attack him....yes
but i dun tink anyone of us attack his family members.....only one guy mentioned something like he pity his wife and kids......
pls dun take it too seriously.....
just to add: basic attacks bro blackjack's wife.......so how?
I am not a judge but just want a peaceful thread to kill time in a slow afternoon
This will be my last post on the personal attack thing. Those who wants to keep doing it, I cannot stop you but it doesn't hurt to be forgiving and generous in the cyber space, right?
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:37
Thanks for not calling me color blind this time. :spliff:
My reading is, some developers are giving 15%-20% discount NOW
Frankly, I don't think that it is completely a lie
there can be cases here and there, although may be rare, that developers do give 15%-20% discount. I know 5% is definitely certain, 10% possible, 15% far-stretching but who knows? Please don't ask me to name the developments. Just shop around and you may find surprise
All I can say is that this statement is very very exaggerating
For those people questioned him on this statement, I would say that more want to prove him wrong than get a lobang from him. If you are the person who know the good deal but get attacked for it, why would him share?
i din call u color blind la....
seriously tat time i expand it just in case u r color blind lah.....becoz its quite common leh.....red color somemore
as for whether really got 15-20% discount going on now.....u noe ...i noe can liao la....
tinking of signing up streetsine......real time tx data available
buttercarp
16-11-11, 16:40
we attack him....yes
but i dun tink anyone of us attack his family members.....only one guy mentioned something like he pity his wife and kids......
pls dun take it too seriously.....
just to add: basic attacks bro blackjack's wife.......so how?
OMG:doh: !
Say wrong things..... whole family kena.
Reminds me of olden days during the dynasty period of China.
满门抄斩.
more den 1mil can oredi la.....small keh here also mah....whahaha
depends also yr ability to repay yr loans,
with salary , investment return, rental etc
If ur cash holdings can tahan instalment of 2-3 yrs,
should be consider prudent.
My take is 2-3 yrs , mkt should stabilize lah
hehe, thomas is a young chap, i think maximum age 70 years or 40year loan.
so thomas is less than 30 year old chap or his co-buyer (spouse?) is less than 30 year old.
Hmmm..when i was inquiring on my loan,i was told i could borrow up to 40 years and i've just passed 30. Do they go by age 30 as of 1st Jan?
bah..ignore this post...you guys are updating this thread faster than i type..haha
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:41
I am not a judge but just want a peaceful thread to kill time in a slow afternoon
This will be my last post on the personal attack thing. Those who wants to keep doing it, I cannot stop you but it doesn't hurt to be forgiving and generous in the cyber space, right?
u take things too seriously in the forum liao la
tats the problem wif typing......one person's tone and mannerism cannot be felt......whether we r joking....seriously angry......or just poking each other for fun....?
if get offended easily by involving in forum....i suggest u stay away from it lor;)
i din call u color blind la....
seriously tat time i expand it just in case u r color blind lah.....becoz its quite common leh.....red color somemore
as for whether really got 15-20% discount going on now.....u noe ...i noe can liao la....
tinking of signing up streetsine......real time tx data available
Hahaha, it's all right.
To be honest, I don't have any 20% discount lobang to share
15%, I have some candidates but haven't tried yet and don't think now the time is ripe
u take things too seriously in the forum liao la
tats the problem wif typing......one person's tone and mannerism cannot be felt......whether we r joking....seriously angry......or just poking each other for fun....?
if get offended easily by involving in forum....i suggest u stay away from it lor;)
Fully agreed. I don't what to say , let's move on.
haha, familiar
u take things too seriously in the forum liao la
tats the problem wif typing......one person's tone and mannerism cannot be felt......whether we r joking....seriously angry......or just poking each other for fun....?
if get offended easily by involving in forum....i suggest u stay away from it lor;)
yeah, maybe I am too serious but now peace peace peace, hahahah
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:44
depends also yr ability to repay yr loans,
with salary , investment return, rental etc
If ur cash holdings can tahan instalment of 2-3 yrs,
should be consider prudent.
My take is 2-3 yrs , mkt should stabilize lah
u tok machiam like nvr answer to my qn leh:confused:
Thanks for not calling me color blind this time. :spliff:
My reading is, some developers are giving 15%-20% discount NOW
Frankly, I don't think that it is completely a lie
there can be cases here and there, although may be rare, that developers do give 15%-20% discount. I know 5% is definitely certain, 10% possible, 15% far-stretching but who knows? Please don't ask me to name the developments. Just shop around and you may find surprise
All I can say is that this statement is very very exaggerating
For those people questioned him on this statement, I would say that more want to prove him wrong than get a lobang from him. If you are the person who know the good deal but get attacked for it, why would him share?
Dont be fool be developer's tactic lar. Many a times these are perceived valued. Its very simple if it is INDEED 15-20% discount, the price of new condos should be selling below if not 10% of existing new condos in the area. If new launch A has 20% discount, but still trading easily at 15% above newly TOP condos there. THAT IS NOT A DISCOUNT!!
You go GSS, retailers up 30%, give you 50%, you also buy till song song :doh: :doh:
thomastansb
16-11-11, 16:48
Opps.. Ya, I am quite young still. Shit... My age is revealed.
hehe, thomas is a young chap, i think maximum age 70 years or 40year loan.
so thomas is less than 30 year old chap or his co-buyer (spouse?) is less than 30 year old.
thomastansb
16-11-11, 16:50
www.data.com.sg
Take a look at this.
Streetsine is not real time actually. Still 3 weeks delay. But still better than URA 1.5 to 2 months delay.
Best is if you have agent friends. Those are literally real time transaction. As soon as option is signed, it is out.
i din call u color blind la....
seriously tat time i expand it just in case u r color blind lah.....becoz its quite common leh.....red color somemore
as for whether really got 15-20% discount going on now.....u noe ...i noe can liao la....
tinking of signing up streetsine......real time tx data available
i din call u color blind la....
seriously tat time i expand it just in case u r color blind lah.....becoz its quite common leh.....red color somemore
as for whether really got 15-20% discount going on now.....u noe ...i noe can liao la....
tinking of signing up streetsine......real time tx data available
Hold your horses, I am in the midst of developing something similar to streetsine but at mass market prices. Been using my own tools offline for quite sometime but was thinking of developing an online version at a more affordable prices to benefit some of our bros here :cheers6: :cheers6:
Dont be fool be developer's tactic lar. Many a times these are perceived valued. Its very simple if it is INDEED 15-20% discount, the price of new condos should be selling below if not 10% of existing new condos in the area. If new launch A has 20% discount, but still trading easily at 15% above newly TOP condos there. THAT IS NOT A DISCOUNT!!
You go GSS, retailers up 30%, give you 50%, you also buy till song song :doh: :doh:
You can already imagine, if new launch like palette selling slightly highly than condos nearby, 2 days heavy rain also can clear 200units, I cant imagine what will happen if a developer really sells at 20% discount, stampede and fierce fighting over units in showrooms :scared-4: :scared-4:
we attack him....yes
but i dun tink anyone of us attack his family members.....only one guy mentioned something like he pity his wife and kids......
pls dun take it too seriously.....
just to add: basic attacks bro blackjack's wife.......so how?
liar king, I said his wife cried= attack her wife...
you are the one start all these nonsense creating from no where, that is why you are liar king....:)
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:55
www.data.com.sg (http://www.data.com.sg)
Take a look at this.
Streetsine is not real time actually. Still 3 weeks delay. But still better than URA 1.5 to 2 months delay.
Best is if you have agent friends. Those are literally real time transaction. As soon as option is signed, it is out.
ok, wat streetsine salesperson told me is tat they oredi got the commitment from various big agencies like era, hsr, orangt etc etc....
once any of their agts report their sales/rental tx to their coy, the data will be captured by streetsine and shall be avail to the subscribers
almost realtime lor....URA caveats is min 2wks and max can be 2-3mths lag
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:56
liar king, I said his wife cried= attack her wife...
you are the one start all these nonsense creating from no where, that is why you are liar king....:)
u say his wife cried la....nxt crisis shall leave him la....blah blah.....
u very naughter boy lah! but we forgive u lah! whahahaa
ok, wat streetsine salesperson told me is tat they oredi got the commitment from various big agencies like era, hsr, orangt etc etc....
once any of their agts report their sales/rental tx to their coy, the data will be captured by streetsine and shall be avail to the subscribers
almost realtime lor....URA caveats is min 2wks and max can be 2-3mths lag
does it mean it even captured non-caveated transactions?
thomastansb
16-11-11, 16:58
That is a big improvement. How much is for 1 person usage?
ok, wat streetsine salesperson told me is tat they oredi got the commitment from various big agencies like era, hsr, orangt etc etc....
once any of their agts report their sales/rental tx to their coy, the data will be captured by streetsine and shall be avail to the subscribers
almost realtime lor....URA caveats is min 2wks and max can be 2-3mths lag
Opps.. Ya, I am quite young still. Shit... My age is revealed.
Your age RANGE is revealed provided the info you provided is correct (40 year loan). alamak we dont look at person's age for credibility la.
Thumbs up le. so young can buy so many properties.
devilplate
16-11-11, 16:58
You can already imagine, if new launch like palette selling slightly highly than condos nearby, 2 days heavy rain also can clear 200units, I cant imagine what will happen if a developer really sells at 20% discount, stampede and fierce fighting over units in showrooms :scared-4: :scared-4:
actually for palette.....mabe basic is right wor.....livia 2bdr tx at 10xxpsf oredi and palette 2bdr high flr about 950-1kpsf......and den flour shd be dearer den bread rite? furthermore, palette 2bdr only 7xxsqft
so indeed prices had oredi plunged by 20%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
u say his wife cried la....nxt crisis shall leave him la....blah blah.....
u very naughter boy lah! but we forgive u lah! whahahaa
isnt the idea from the article teddybear posted a few days ago?
about one guy want to divorce the wife so that she can stay in rental flat, something like that.
devilplate
16-11-11, 17:01
does it mean it even captured non-caveated transactions?
as long the agent submit the tx to the coy.....but hor buyer haven exercise OTP lor.....
u say his wife cried la....nxt crisis shall leave him la....blah blah.....
u very naughter boy lah! but we forgive u lah! whahahaa
Hahaha, that's the spirit!
u say his wife cried la....nxt crisis shall leave him la....blah blah.....
u very naughter boy lah! but we forgive u lah! whahahaa
liar king, forgive yourself better lah.....
I fcuk most here upside down too...you kena the most....
at least I know who to share for better information.....:)
actually for palette.....mabe basic is right wor.....livia 2bdr tx at 10xxpsf oredi and palette 2bdr high flr about 950-1kpsf......and den flour shd be dearer den bread rite? furthermore, palette 2bdr only 7xxsqft
so indeed prices had oredi plunged by 20%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I classify these as outliners unless there are many transacting at >1k psf, most 2bedders in Livia are at high 8xx to slightly over 900 psf so technically the discount value is about ~5%. That is probably the reason why so many people tio hooked and book a unit
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 17:05
長江後浪推前浪，後身可唯為也. 可千萬別學有些小人，吃不到葡萄說葡萄酸噢。
devilplate
16-11-11, 17:05
11 October 2011. StreetSine Pte Ltd is pleased to announce that ERA Realty Network Pte. Ltd., ECG Property Pte. Ltd. and C&H Properties Pte. Ltd. have joined the Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX™). Effective today, participating agents from these leading Estate Agencies have access to the Exchange's real-time, instant, and live sales and rental transactions as well as exclusive listings for co-broking.
http://www.streetsine.com/static/home2/map.jsp#homeReportFaq
11 October 2011. StreetSine Pte Ltd is pleased to announce that ERA Realty Network Pte. Ltd., ECG Property Pte. Ltd. and C&H Properties Pte. Ltd. have joined the Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX™). Effective today, participating agents from these leading Estate Agencies have access to the Exchange's real-time, instant, and live sales and rental transactions as well as exclusive listings for co-broking.
yeah, saw that message.
But wonder how does it translate to subscribers.
do the subscribers see individual transactions, unit number included?
Or see data more like URA rental data, 25th percentile, median, 75th percentile?
I buy home report for a project, yet rental data kind of lacking.
How to lose 100% in property hah? :doh:
How many people actually can lose 100% in property? :beats-me-man:
in life,everyone got to take some risk. but some min calculated risk.
i seen the prices boom to 100% returns, meaning it can also wipe 100% in losses.
losses: 5.5% vs 100% which one u pick?:D
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 17:11
11 October 2011. StreetSine Pte Ltd is pleased to announce that ERA Realty Network Pte. Ltd., ECG Property Pte. Ltd. and C&H Properties Pte. Ltd. have joined the Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX™). Effective today, participating agents from these leading Estate Agencies have access to the Exchange's real-time, instant, and live sales and rental transactions as well as exclusive listings for co-broking.
功為社會， 這才是君子所為也。
devilplate
16-11-11, 17:16
11 October 2011. StreetSine Pte Ltd is pleased to announce that ERA Realty Network Pte. Ltd., ECG Property Pte. Ltd. and C&H Properties Pte. Ltd. have joined the Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX™). Effective today, participating agents from these leading Estate Agencies have access to the Exchange's real-time, instant, and live sales and rental transactions as well as exclusive listings for co-broking.
http://www.streetsine.com/static/home2/map.jsp#homeReportFaq
only agents can access to realtime data....:doh:
devilplate
16-11-11, 17:19
liar king, forgive yourself better lah.....
I fcuk most here upside down too...you kena the most....
at least I know who to share for better information.....:)
heng u dunwan to share wif me.....
i dunwan my mind to be polluted!:D :D :D
devilplate
16-11-11, 17:31
功為社會， 這才是君子所為也。
only agts hf the weapon to snipe.....:(
either we become agts or make some agt frens liao....
jwong shd really consider to become one.....
devilplate
16-11-11, 17:36
Hold your horses, I am in the midst of developing something similar to streetsine but at mass market prices. Been using my own tools offline for quite sometime but was thinking of developing an online version at a more affordable prices to benefit some of our bros here :cheers6: :cheers6:
brother, we goto depend on u liao....
Or u become agent den we pay u a nominal fee to co-use....LOL:D :D :D
brother, we goto depend on u liao....
Or u become agent den we pay u a nominal fee to co-use....LOL:D :D :D
Yes working hard to bring the online version of the tool, hope to provide some updates in the coming week or so :)
The Housing Board has launched a new set of notes under its $12 billion Multicurrency Medium Term Note (MTN) programme.
The issuance comprises a $600-million, seven-year fixed-rate notes issue with a coupon of 1.83 per cent per year, the Board announced in a statement on Wednesday.
The notes to be issued will be in denominations of $250,000 and offered by way of placement to investors.The joint lead managers are Australia and New Zealand Banking Group, and DBS Bank.
Under the MTN programme, the Housing Board may issue bonds or notes to finance its development programmes and working capital requirements, as well as to refinance the existing borrowings.
heng u dunwan to share wif me.....
i dunwan my mind to be polluted!:D :D :D
tan ku ku...get lost better...,haha...:)
for those hoping for money printing day & night....below good news for you...
Once Germany walk out of Euro zone.....domino will fall 1 by 1 till whole world economy collapse.....
Germany will just do it...1924 to them is nightmare.....
Germany is the epicenter....US or Japan pr China, print how much also no use, once Germany is out....all the global DEBT has to pay back with super high price.....including your housing loan in spore.....
No way out: Why Germany could have no choice but to leave the euro
November 15th, 2011
From Charles Hugh Smith:
Is there anything that hasn’t already been said about the eurozone’s structural flaws and the absurdity of the half-baked “solutions” tossed together by its frenzied, fumbling leadership? Perhaps not, but we can fruitfully boil the mess down to a simple double-bind.
The double-bind can be stated thusly:
1. If the European Central Bank (ECB) tries to save the private banks and bondholders by printing trillions of euros to buy up the mountain of hopelessly impaired sovereign bonds, then Germany will rebel and renounce the euro as an act of self-preservation.
Germany knows that money-printing robs savers and the productive via the stealth theft of inflation, and its people will not stand idly by while their wealth is destroyed by ECB euro-printing.
2. If the ECB renounces money-printing, then the only…way is out....
Germany not approves to print mmoney to buy bond...from now till 31/12/2011, 104 bond sale by PIIGS.....lot of pressure from now on...
just wait for default to trigger.....
this is the man...if he won President election next yr, he will abolish FED, get ready for 20-30% interest rate in 2013....chances is good, meet the theme of this decade nicely, hike rate, hike tax, pay back DEBT, kill all the greed......
Cain is just for show now due to his sexual scandal....
Ron Paul moves into top tier
November 15th, 2011
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/11/12/AP111112161802_244x183.jpg(Credit: AP Photo/Richard Shiro)
The Iowa caucuses are just seven weeks away, but Republican voters in the nation’s first presidential nominating state seem as torn as ever over the GOP field.
A new Bloomberg poll of likely caucus participants shows a four-way tie in Iowa, with Rep. Ron Paul joining Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain in the top tier of candidates. Underscoring the uncertainty in the race, 60 percent of respondents said they could be persuaded to back someone other than their first choice for the nomination.
The poll, conducted November 10 – 12 by the West Des Moines-based firm Selzer & Co, shows Cain in the lead with 20 percent, while Paul comes in at 19 percent. Romney wins 18 percent support, and Gingrich earns 17 percent. The margin of error is 4.4 percent.
next few months, we will know....obama is definitely out in next election....
上周逾8成城市楼市成交量下跌降价加速蔓延
2011-11-15
楼市加速“入冬”。中国指数研究院14日公布的数据显示，上周(11月7日至13日)全国楼市成交延续低迷走势，在监测的35个城市中，29个城市楼市成交量同比下降，9城市成交量降幅在50%以上。
成交持续下滑的同时，价格松动迹象也开始由新房向二手房、一线城市向二三线城市蔓延。
统计显示，上周成都成交量同比降幅最大，达到59.50%，其次是南充，同比降幅达57.79%。重点城市中杭州(不含萧山余杭)、天津、北京同比下降幅度也均超过50%。此前一周，在监测的35个城市中，28个城市楼市成交量同比下降，6个城市成交量降幅在50%以上。
截至目前，富力[简介 最新动态]、保利、万科等标杆房企，都进行了不同程度的降价促销，其中部分项目降价幅度在20%至40%。
在各地新盘打折促销现象加剧的同时，部分城市的降价现象已逐步蔓延至二手房市场。据中原报价指数数据显示，10月六城市报价指数均较9月有不同程度的回落，其中深圳报价指数首次跌破10%，广州跌破30%，其他四城市在20%左右。
中原地产预计，短期内二手住宅在新房市场的压力之下，其降价幅度和降价范围的继续扩大已是大势所趋。
亚豪机构副总经理高姗接受《经济参考报》记者采访时说，目前现有的调控政策不会取消，由此带来的楼市成交低迷将进一步扩散，整体楼市的成交均价也将产生更大幅度的松动。
她指出，时至年底大部分开发企业资金链已经处于最紧张时点。整体经济环境的恶化导致融资渠道更加不畅，借贷 无门的房企只能通过销售回款来缓解现金流的压力，而在已经进入到买方市场环境中的房地产市场，售价成为吸引消费者的第一大要素。因此会有更多的开发项目加 入到降价大军当中，以期能够回笼资金。
last week, continue to tua lao sai....anyhow dump to collect back fund liao....liquidity dry up, no money, cash flow dry, yr end is here to settle debt...almost across whole china now, more to come.....
buyer still no hurry, wait for more price cut, nobody interested in property once price start to plunging down.....
more to come....china, HK & spore....
Resale flat supply crunch calls for tweaks
Policy adjustments can help meet demand and stem price rises
By Jessica Cheam
HOME-buyers hoping for a fall in home prices must have been disappointed by recent housing figures.
Housing Board (HDB) resale flat prices rose 3.8 per cent in the third quarter to a fresh record. Prices have risen
some 35 per cent since the first quarter of 2009. That was the last quarter which saw a price fall - albeit by just
0.8 per cent.
HDB resale flat prices' ability to defy gravity is puzzling at one level, because HDB is already ramping up supply
of HDB flats aggressively. But the new flats being built are available only to Singaporean couples and families
and will be ready only in a few years.
Meanwhile, underlying demand remains strong. Singles, permanent residents and those who have already bought
subsidised HDB flats before, have to turn to the HDB resale market for affordable housing.
But the biggest reasons underpinning the price rise in the HDB resale market could be the supply crunch created
by a mix of recent and past policies.
Analysts say some measures introduced recently to cool the property market have created incentives for HDB
flat-owners to hold on to their flats and not sell them. Rules were tightened to weed out would-be speculators who
want to buy HDB flats to 'flip' (resell) or rent out in the short-term. The rules did not affect those who already
owned HDB flats. The result: existing HDB owners hang on to their flats. Fewer put up their flats for sale, creating
a supply crunch.
The number of resale transactions fell 10 per cent to 5,903 deals in the third quarter - below the usual 6,000 or
more deals on average per quarter.
Analysts point to another rule that makes it difficult for buyers to move homes. This requires HDB flat-owners to
prove they have sold their existing flat before they can qualify for higher 80 per cent financing on their next home.
Otherwise, they get only 60 per cent.
ERA Realty key executive officer Eugene Lim said this policy is making sellers reluctant to let go of their units.
The rule was meant to discourage speculation in properties by increasing the cash amount buyers must pay for a
second mortgage. But analysts say the rule is unnecessary in the HDB market since no household is allowed to
own more than one HDB flat anyway.
This is one rule that merits review. One simple solution around this problem was proposed by PropNex chief
executive Mohamed Ismail, who suggested that the Government allow 80 per cent bank financing for all HDB
home-buyers, on condition that they sell their existing HDB homes within three to six months.
If there is no review and existing rules continue, people may prefer to 'hoard' their HDB flat even if they don't
need it, and prefer to rent it out, not sell it.
Already, the trend is showing up in HDB's latest figures. The number of HDB flats approved for subletting rose to
about 39,100 units in the third quarter, compared to about 37,900 units in the second quarter.
There is another big factor explaining the supply crunch. This is the fresh supply of new HDB flats that turn five
years old and can be sold on the resale market.
New HDB flats are sold at subsidised prices to Singaporean couples and families, who must live in them for five
years. After that, they can be sold to Singaporeans and permanent residents.
Between 1991 and 1995, HDB built about 20,000 new flats per year. Between 1996 and 2000, it built roughly
31,000 per year, and in 2001 to 2005, it completed 11,000 flats a year on average.
The number fell drastically after that as the Sars outbreak and economic crises in the early 2000s had created
an unsold stock of tens of thousands of HDB flats. In response, HDB scaled back its building programme. In
2006, 2007 and 2008, the number of flats completed were 2,752, 5,111 and 3,183 respectively.
What this means is that in the last decade, the resale market had an annual injection of 11,000 to 30,000 flats
which turned five and could be resold. But the number will shrink in the next three years: from 2011 to 2013,
there will be only about 11,000 flats for the entire period.
Of course, considered against the existing stock of one million HDB flats, this drop might not be significant. But it
does exacerbate the supply crunch amidst a market with robust demand.
So the overall picture is that supply looks set to remain tight for the next two years at least. Resale prices are
thus likely to remain firm.
Analysts say there are some short-term solutions that can be considered. One is to review the financing rule for
HDB owners. Some people think the Government can go further, to introduce new policies to compel HDB
owners who do not really need their flat to sell it.
Dennis Wee Group director Chris Koh points out that HDB flat-owners are allowed to rent out the whole flat after
five years. 'If they can afford to live elsewhere, perhaps they should let go of their flats to help ease the pressure
in the market,' he suggested.
They are still likely to make capital gains given that their flats were subsidised when they bought them, he added.
Another way to raise short-term supply of resale flats is to create incentives for HDB resale flat-owners to sell,
rather than rent out, their units.
One way is to impose a levy on income from renting out HDB flats. Owners now have to declare all rental income
as part of their personal income tax returns. But many have incomes below the threshold for paying income tax
anyway, so they do not have to pay any taxes. A direct levy of, say, 30 per cent imposed on rental gains from
renting out HDB flats may tip some owners into deciding to sell instead of rent out their units.
Unlike a change in ownership criteria, a levy on rental income has the advantage of being easier to tweak, or
scrap when the market no longer needs it.
For now, the problem of tight supply amidst strong demand for HDB resale flats looks set to persist for some
time.
The housing market is notoriously difficult to manage, with different interests between buyers and sellers. Doing
nothing may result in HDB resale flat prices continuing their climb. Doing too much may destabilise the market.
But at the margin, there may be room for short- term policy tweaks to raise supply - which will provide some relief
to the breathless pace of price rises.
[email protected]
Warning! A crash is dead ahead: History proves nations collapse suddenly, rapidly, terminal; The European Union is at the edge. “In the realm of power … you’re fine until you’re not fine—and when you’re not fine, you’re suddenly in a terrifying death spiral.” Suddenly. Rapidly. Terminal. — Ferguson
November 15th, 2011
if coming crisis is like above, who will still buy ILLIQUID property now??....
if you know how panic is the world today, from US to Europe, China & Asia...no money, all in deep debt, everyone know they are bankrupt except holding tons of DEBT.....collapse is anytime see who fall 1st....under such situation, who still buy ILLIQUID property with 4 yrs SSD??
The case for curbs on foreign property buyers
Entry of foreigners into mass-market homes bears careful watching
By Esther Teo
SOME Singaporeans are clearly worried that the growing numbers of foreigners buying private homes are driving prices ever higher - and out of the reach of some local buyers.
This concern has been heightened by a fairly new trend for foreigners to buy mass-market homes, a segment in which they had previously taken little interest.
These, of course, are the same homes that many upgraders aspire to buy.
Are restrictions on foreigners' purchase of private homes, proposed by some, warranted?
First, consider the figures. In the first eight months of this year, one in three buyers of non-landed private residential properties was a non-Singaporean.
Among buyers of private homes - excluding landed property which is more regulated - the proportion of foreigners, including permanent residents (PRs), is creeping up. Last year, it was 28 per cent.
Foreigners are also increasingly turning to new developments. A recent Business Times report showed that foreigners, excluding PRs, bought 843 uncompleted private homes from developers in the third quarter, up nearly 20 per cent from 703 homes in the previous quarter. Their share of the total number of uncompleted private homes sold by developers rose from 16.3 per cent in the second quarter to 20.1 per cent in the third quarter.
Foreigners, excluding PRs, accounted for 16 per cent of all private home purchases in the first half of the year, up from 12 per cent last year.
Perhaps the biggest worry for many Singaporeans is the fact that foreigners are now encroaching on the mass-market segment.
Foreigners' share of homes sold at price tags of under $1 million - taken as a proxy definition of a mass-market home - rose to 28 per cent in the first nine months of this year. It was 19 per cent in 2009 and 22 per cent last year, according to caveats lodged with the Urban Redevelopment Authority.
At recent launches of mass-market developments such as Parc Vera in Hougang, foreigners and PRs made up about 20 per cent of sales, compared to below 10 per cent a few years ago.
In the past, foreigners largely went for expensive homes in districts nine, 10 and 11, and this had minimal impact on the average Singaporean, said Dennis Wee Group director Chris Koh. However, they are now making a splash in the suburban leasehold mass market, he noted.
Faced with such statistics, it is little wonder that some attribute the surge in private home prices to record highs - up 18 per cent last year and a further 6 per cent in the first nine months of this year - to purchases by foreigners.
Amid this concern, some experts like Chesterton Suntec International research head Colin Tan have suggested that curbs on foreigners buying private residential properties could temper the rapid rises in prices.
To a certain extent, foreigners already face curbs on property purchases. Foreigners can buy landed homes only in Sentosa Cove. If they are PRs, they may buy some types of landed housing elsewhere, but only with approval.
The sale of resale Housing Board flats is also restricted to Singaporeans and PRs who meet certain criteria.
But the market for private condominiums is largely open to foreigners, who invest in this market on a level playing field with citizens.
Those who call for curbs point out that Singapore's real estate sector is vulnerable to speculative capital flows.
With interest rates set to stay low for the next couple of years, the plentiful funds washing around the market seeking better returns could well cause price volatility if there are no curbs, they argue.
Last month, MP Christopher de Souza (Holland-Bukit Timah GRC) suggested restrictions on foreigners buying homes. He cited Australia, which has rules that limit foreigners to buying only new properties, which they can subsequently sell only to Australians.
Singapore, like other open economies such as Hong Kong and Britain, does not restrict foreigners from purchasing private condos and apartments.
Others have suggested less onerous financing-related measures such as caps on the number of mortgages foreigners can take out or reducing further for them alone the proportion of a property's value they may borrow.
Dennis Wee's Mr Koh suggested one way would be to introduce a capital gains tax for foreigners who make gains from selling private property here. Or simply keep or impose an additional sellers' stamp duty on foreigners who sell within a stipulated period, he said.
Another suggestion from Knight Frank group managing director Danny Yeo is to differentiate between those who have a stake here and those who do not.
Long-term residents, such as PRs and foreigners working here, should not be subject to restrictions as they also need a home in Singapore. But the purchases of foreigners who do not live or work here could be subject to curbs, he said.
But as National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan noted last month, it is important to ensure that housing policy shifts do not unwittingly harm the economy and society. Rising prices also cannot be attributed solely to foreign purchases. There are many factors at play, such as low interest rates and Singapore's strong economic fundamentals, he emphasised.
In any case, foreigners are already subject to the same anti-speculation measures as locals - including a sellers' stamp duty of up to 16 per cent. This has creamed off some speculative froth, with prices moderating for the past eight consecutive quarters - inching up just 1.3 per cent in the three months to Sept 30.
Taken together, the case for more curbs on foreign purchases is mixed. A further surge in demand from foreigners can raise prices beyond the reach of locals.
At the same time, any measure that curbs demand in one segment risks cooling down the entire market, especially with a slowing economy.
There may be a case for more calibrated measures: for example, to dampen demand for mass-market homes from foreigners who do not live or work in Singapore.
But the timing and extent of any such move are critical. For now, the trend of foreigners buying into mass-market homes is certainly one that bears careful watching.
[email protected] (
[email protected])
French bank to add to headcount in region, including in Singapore
Published on Nov 16, 2011
Societe Generale has won approval to establish a representative office in Malaysia and will add to its headcount in Japan, South Korea and Singapore. -- PHOTO: REUTERS
By Robin Chan
IT IS far from the best of times to be a French bank, what with euro zone debt crisis fears spreading to France and French government bond yields rising.
But Societe Generale, France's No. 2 bank, is not allowing itself to get bogged down by the woes afflicting Europe and is expanding in the world's most prosperous region: Asia.
The bank will add to its headcount in Japan, South Korea and Singapore, said Mr Ashley Wilkins, deputy chief executive of SocGen's Asia-Pacific corporate and investment banking group, at a media briefing at Marina Bay Financial Centre yesterday.
FOCUSED ON CORE FRANCHISES
'We have got focused growth and we are concentrating on our core franchises and they are equity derivatives, natural resources, infrastructure and export finance.'
Mr Ashley Wilkins, deputy chief executive of Societe Generale's Asia-Pacific corporate and investment banking group
'We have got focused growth and we are concentrating on our core franchises and they are equity derivatives, natural resources, infrastructure and export finance,' he said.
'We are net growing in that area. We are growing in Japan, we are growing in Korea and South-east Asia. So yes, we are hiring in Singapore.'
The bank has won approval to establish a representative office in Malaysia, said chief country officer for Singapore and South-east Asia Maurice Nhan.
The bank declined to reveal its headcount in Asia, but Mr Wilkins said it is in the 'multi-thousands'.
He added that the bank has been helped by not 'overhiring heavily', unlike other banks such as rival European giant Credit Suisse, which has announced a new round of 1,500 job cuts.
Still, reports out of France have said SocGen was looking at about 500 staff cuts at its global corporate and investment bank that employs 12,000 people.
While analysts have raised fears of a tightening in liquidity and a pullback in credit especially from European banks in Asia, Mr Wilkins said that the bank is 'continuing to do business in Asia... and continuing to lend in Asia'.
He acknowledged that European banks are deleveraging, which would have some effect within Asia.
'But my opinion is that given growth in Asia and the general attractiveness in Asia, that that will be mitigated by local banks growing, (and) people like ourselves who have taken action earlier and are ready to serve our clients' needs,' he said.
'And I think there will be more opportunities for US banks which pulled back on all their real banking activity in Asia 13 to 14 years ago; they will have an opportunity to come in and expand. 'For new entrants, we have seen debt funds setting up, dealing with longer term maturities, and our capital markets units are focusing on project bonds that are coming up.'
With tightness in global liquidity, local banks such as DBS and OCBC have spotted chances to grow their market share in trade financing in the region.
But Mr Wilkins said commodity trade financing, which tends to involve larger sums, is a different challenge for these banks, requiring investment in systems, people with skills and market knowledge.
'You don't decide necessarily overnight to go into the other side of the business (commodity trade financing) just because you have been doing the normal trade finance business. We welcome the competition but it is not quite as easy as turning on a button,' he said.
He said the chance of a collapse of a major European bank is close to zero.
'The market has seen what happens when you let a major systemic bank go down, which is Lehman.'
[email protected] (
[email protected])
liar king, forgive yourself better lah.....
I fcuk most here upside down too...you kena the most....
at least I know who to share for better information.....:)Wah,四字经都出来了！哈哈，原形毕露！kekeke....
長江後浪推前浪，後身可唯為也. 可千萬別學有些小人，吃不到葡萄說葡萄酸噢。
bro, you need to sharpen your chineses leh. it shall be 後生可畏
blackjack21trader
16-11-11, 20:21
bro, you need to sharpen your chineses leh. it shall be 後生可畏
You r right, bro ! paiseh paiseh la.... Kekeke
Wah,四字经都出来了！哈哈，原形毕露！kekeke....
haha...go & read who used 1st, don't pick person...only reflect on yourself, fool, to people like you, you deserve it.....:)
Basic why do you keep cursing us fellow Singaporeans? It doesn't make sense to me because any rational and kind person will hope for a stable economy for sg, not cursing for a depression or extreme meltdown. Even if it happens, you think you are safe? Your family/ friends safe?
It pays to be cautious, but I am really puzzled why you are like so eager for a depression when the rest of the govts are trying to save their citizens...
上海楼市降价潮已至市中心 降价盘成交抢眼
2011-11-15
从市场表现来说，已经在郊区和三四线城市大幅降价抛盘的绿地集团，把降价的策略应用到了上海市中心的楼盘。 位于徐汇滨江的绿地海珀旭辉拟于本月19日推出精装修大平层豪宅，价格将在市场预期的8万元/平方米的基础上打8折。而近期上市的大宁瑞仕花园和乐活居等 市中心中高档楼盘也纷纷给出85折-83折的价格优惠。万科也一改沉默，加入到降价行列，据了解，万科清林径部分房源的单价已降到13500元，该楼盘前 期售价为16500元/平方米。另据了解，近年来在上海扩张迅速的新城地产，继旗下的新城公馆出现降价之后，新城金郡等楼盘也将加入到新一轮的降价行列。
shanghai cut price now spread to town center, like D9-11, developer down price by 20% in XuJiaHui....the property price of core of Shanghai also down now....
buyers still not buying yet, wait for more downside.....
devilplate
16-11-11, 20:56
tan ku ku...get lost better...,haha...:)
did anyone got a reply from dr basic doom?
spincity? avo?
新房跳水波及区域 嘉定新城一二手房价同跌
2011-11-10
摘要：板块内新房降价带来的后续效应正在逐渐发酵。据记者调查发现，嘉定新城板块近期出现了一手、二手市场房价同步下降的趋势，虽然尚不至于崩盘，但区域整体房价已出现15%左右的下调。
均价从每平米17000、18000元跌至13000、14000元，降价幅度超过20%，同属嘉定新城板 块的龙湖郦城和绿地秋霞坊先的房价先后“跳水”震动了整个房地产市场。虽然目前这两个项目的降价已告一段落，但其后续效应正在逐步发酵，板块内其它在售楼 盘也出现了价格松动的迹象。
而区域内二手房价格近期同样出现了下滑的态势。中原地产嘉定新城二店经理卢昌富今天在接受新民网采访时表 示，目前区域内受到一手新房降价的冲击非常明显。房东不但挂牌量大幅增加，其中主动来电话寻找买家，表示价格上“愿意谈的”的比例也有很大上升。如区域内 的次新房保利家园，早先只有20余套挂牌，其中还包括不少“挂着看看”的卖家，而近一段时间已经达到近40套，诚心出售的房东数量几乎翻番。
价格方面，二手房和新房出现了同步降价的现象。卢昌富告诉记者，目前板块内的房东普遍能够接受10%左右的 降价空间，个别房源甚至可以达到20%。“比如目前就有一套80平方米120万含税的带装修挂牌房源，而早先120万只能买到类似的毛坯房源，买家同时还 需要承担10几万的税，这样算来这套房源等于便宜了近20万。
new & resale drop price together...average all down 15%... some up to 20% or more..
more sellers into market now...
devilplate
16-11-11, 20:59
上海楼市降价潮已至市中心 降价盘成交抢眼
2011-11-15
从市场表现来说，已经在郊区和三四线城市大幅降价抛盘的绿地集团，把降价的策略应用到了上海市中心的楼盘。 位于徐汇滨江的绿地海珀旭辉拟于本月19日推出精装修大平层豪宅，价格将在市场预期的8万元/平方米的基础上打8折。而近期上市的大宁瑞仕花园和乐活居等 市中心中高档楼盘也纷纷给出85折-83折的价格优惠。万科也一改沉默，加入到降价行列，据了解，万科清林径部分房源的单价已降到13500元，该楼盘前 期售价为16500元/平方米。另据了解，近年来在上海扩张迅速的新城地产，继旗下的新城公馆出现降价之后，新城金郡等楼盘也将加入到新一轮的降价行列。
shanghai cut price now spread to town center, like D9-11, developer down price by 20% in XuJiaHui....the property price of core of Shanghai also down now....
buyers still not buying yet, wait for more downside.....
i am clueless abt china ppty market.....
wats the developer pricing vs nearby resale less den 5yo? isit 20-30% dearer den resale in general before this correction?
have been reading china developer cutting px....hows the resale market?
did anyone got a reply from dr basic doom?
spincity? avo?
so interested....jiak ka ki lah....:):)
i am clueless abt china ppty market.....
wats the developer pricing vs nearby resale less den 5yo? isit 20-30% dearer den resale in general before this correction?
have been reading china developer cutting px....hows the resale market?
liar king, tan ku ku lah....:):)
devilplate
16-11-11, 21:04
so interested....jiak ka ki lah....:):)
i din ask u leh....lol....kapo:tongue3:
Basic why do you keep cursing us fellow Singaporeans? It doesn't make sense to me because any rational and kind person will hope for a stable economy for sg, not cursing for a depression or extreme meltdown. Even if it happens, you think you are safe? Your family/ friends safe?
It pays to be cautious, but I am really puzzled why you are like so eager for a depression when the rest of the govts are trying to save their citizens...
to each of its own.. man is selfish one. If I sell all properties I will sure be uber bearish. If I hold properties (recent purchase) and bad news, I will pee my pants if I overstretch my budget. If I buy for own stay, good/bads news wun affect me. If I buy at the last recession (bad news), all the more I wun sell and will be eager to look out for more after saving ammo for another 2 yrs
Basic why do you keep cursing us fellow Singaporeans? It doesn't make sense to me because any rational and kind person will hope for a stable economy for sg, not cursing for a depression or extreme meltdown. Even if it happens, you think you are safe? Your family/ friends safe?
It pays to be cautious, but I am really puzzled why you are like so eager for a depression when the rest of the govts are trying to save their citizens...
I explained 100x, people will still come back same question....
not I eager or want or don't want depression...this is market force, up/down, peak/bottom, these are norm...nothing go up forever...
you think Greece eager or want to be in this situation? you think Lehman want to bankrupt?? you don't 1997 asia financial crisis, then it will not come....
learn the skill, anticipate the future, prepare for it....
not because I buy or sell, miss the boat or sour grape or...all these are nonsense.....:)
海南楼市成“烫手山芋” 千亿炒房资金被深度套牢http://www.crei.cn 2011年11月16日 来源：上海证券报
政策赶场楼市打蔫，以千亿计的炒房资金被海南楼市"深度套牢"。
头顶国际旅游岛光环也扛不住调控威力，在对市场最为敏感的民间资本眼中，海南楼市，已从昔日的"香饽饽"变成了送不出去的"烫手山芋"。
曾几何时，海南楼市在国际旅游岛概念刺激下，堪称"热钱"的天堂，数千亿资金从全国甚至世界各地蜂拥而入，把海南的地价、房价炒上了天。谁料调控政策层 层加码，这波热潮仅持续了几个月便陷入有价无市的僵持期，而这一"僵持"就是一年半，终于，当"金九银十"变成了"铁九铜十"，开发商和炒房客们都已经坚 持不住了。
从本报记者实地调研的情况来看，虽然地方政府、银行等对海南楼市前景仍表示乐观，但扑面而来的楼盘打折、物业或土地转让的广告透露出，民间资本撤离的心情已非常急切。
炒房客表情
从疯狂涌入到急着跑路
"现在非常想撤出来，但房子卖不动，没法撤。"
来自杭州的高女士告诉记者，去年年初，她和几个朋友筹集了几百万元在文昌一次性购入十几套房子，本想趁价格上涨时卖出，不料买了不久房价就停止上涨，观望了一段时间后决定挂出来卖，去年就卖出去一套，现在降价也没人买了。
如今，这些资金却如热锅上的蚂蚁，无心恋战，急于撤离。
来自南京的谢先生也向记者透露，去年他从多个朋友那儿融资了几千万元来海南开发房地产，但没想到这股热潮只维持了几个月，待今年下半年他们的房子建好开卖，海南楼市已陷入有价无市的观望期。
"如今开盘已经3个多月，房子总共只卖出去5套，"他焦急地说，为了尽快回笼资金还债，正在考虑将项目出让。
急着"跑路"的并非只有投资客及小型开发商，由于成交低迷，开发商拖欠工程建设款的情况越来越普遍，随着年关临近，很多建筑商也急切地想拿回他们垫支的工程款。
在海南万宁市某温泉度假村项目现场，空旷的工地上只见锈迹斑斑的脚手架和已经有些腐烂的安全围栏，知情人士告诉记者，此项目是该度假村的二期工程，上半年动工，但由于资金无法到位，已经停工半年多。
"一期工程款还拖欠着，建筑商已经无力也不敢再垫资建设二期工程了。"该知情人士无奈地说，此前请客送礼好不容易才拿到项目，现在只想快些拿回垫支的工程款，离开这个地方。
"开发商原本承诺每月支付工程款1500万元，但现在只能兑现一半，剩下的用房子抵，为了尽快收回资金，我们只好将房子以低于市价1000元的价格委托给售楼中心的工作人员，并承诺卖掉一套给他们五万元的奖励。"
建房子建成了房东，同样在万宁承建项目的"包工头"李先生郁闷不已。
长期监控境内外"热钱"流向的广东省社会科学院教授黎友焕指出，从监控体系可以看到，很多前期进入房地产的"热钱"，现在迫切地想要出来，只是没有相应的成交量来支撑。
售楼中心现状
从门庭若市到门可罗雀
急归急，但在全国楼市"降"声一片的大背景下，海南炒房客们发现，他们根本找不到接盘人。
11月初，三亚已经进入传统的旅游旺季，位于市中心的鹿回头公园人流量明显增加，临近中午时分，公园停车场已是一"位"难求。但是，离鹿回头公园几百米距离的大型楼盘半山半岛[最新消息 价格 户型 点评]的售楼中心，却是门可罗雀，冷清得让人以为这里并未开门营业。
半山半岛并非特例。记者在海南海口、三亚走访发现，虽然已进入旺季，但大部分房地产项目的售楼中心鲜少有人光顾，很多楼盘的销售中心只见售楼人员不见看房人，与去年年初投资者疯狂抢购、楼价"一日一涨"的火爆场景形成鲜明对比。
"我们今年的销售目标是十个亿，但10个月过去了，我们只卖了不到一个亿。"海南当地某排名前十的大型开发商销售总经理告诉记者。
像他这样的开发商也并不少见。除了少数楼盘销售目标完成情况较好，很多开发商的销售团队都很焦虑，眼看2011年行至年尾，他们的成绩单却惨不忍睹，完成的销售额大都只是全年目标的一个零头。
为提升人气，更为回笼资金，去年年初还捂盘、惜售的开发商如今无不使出浑身解数增加销售额。除了在网络、报纸、电视、公路牌等各种媒体上投放巨幅广告外，一些开发商还前往北京、上海、江浙、东北、山西、四川等购房需求较大的城市或地区推介。
一时间，钢琴演奏会、泳装秀等吸引投资者前去看盘的各类活动应运而生，时下最流行的团购，甚至买房送宝马等一系列促销手段也全部上阵。
当上述种种都不奏效，越来越多的开发商祭出了最后一招：降价。
在去年年初万元以下房源踪迹难觅的海口，如今冒出了很多6000元出头的新盘。据记者了解，海口一半以上的楼盘推出了打折优惠，一些楼盘，如富力盈溪谷 近日甚至推出了最低6折的团购促销；在海南房价最高的三亚和陵水，几乎所有的楼盘都能享受折扣，一些楼盘的基础折扣达72折，如果一次性付款，还能享受 92到98折不等的折上折优惠。
价格降得再狠，投资者也并不买账。在刚刚过去的10月，海南商品房市场共签约2883套，签约面积约25万平米，仅相当于去年月均销售面积71万平米的三分之一左右。海南当地房地产中介预测，11月的销售情况可能会更惨烈。
开发商处境
从鸡犬升天到全面洗牌
只有在退潮的时候才知道谁在裸泳。
记者调研发现，即使在海南楼市整体萧条的情况下，一些品牌开发商的房子依然卖得很好。其中的佼佼者雅居乐，其位于陵水的清水湾项目今年前10个月的累计 销售额已达75亿元，接近去年全年销售85亿元的水平；而2008年才进驻海南的万科，其位于三亚的首个项目万科森林度假公园，一开盘就卖了10个亿。
资金实力决定开发与扩张进度，品牌开发商或因销售回款较好、母公司实力雄厚、融资渠道多元化等，开发进度并未见放慢，有的甚至还逆势提速及扩张；与之形成鲜明对比，资金实力弱的民营开发商今年明显放慢了开发进度，有的已经出现停工，还有的甚至计划出让项目。
经过近两年的发展，海南房地产行业凭借国际旅游岛概念"鸡犬升天"的局面已经过去，行业大洗牌不可避免，存活下来的企业在未来将主导海南楼市的走势，他们将带领海南的房地产业从之前的混乱走向有序和规范化。
从政策层面来看，海南省政府也有意引进及扶持大型品牌房企在海南发展，早在去年3、4月份，海南省住建厅和国土厅在制定房地产行业相关政策时，就已经开 始往大型品牌企业偏斜。当前，万科、雅居乐、华润、中信、恒大、富力等知名开发商已进驻海南，并通过兼并收购占领了绝大部分市场份额。
无论如何，年底都是对现金流要求最高的时点，巨量贷款、工程款、员工薪酬等费用的支付与结算，与"热钱"的撤离、低迷的成交共同形成一道槛，跨不过去的 开发商将被淘汰出局。有业内人士预计，如果调控政策不松动，开发商将不得不以价换量回收资金，这意味着春节前海南的楼价还将继续深调。
hainan island property market super jialat...50% discount coming soon...all kena stucked, many run road liao....developers, construction, all liquidity dry up....lan wei lou everywhere....
楼市最“寒冬”来袭 11月北京新盘零成交http://www.crei.cn 2011年11月16日 来源：人民网
人民网北京11月15日（记者 曾亮）伴随着萧瑟寒风，北京已进入自然冬季，而楼市最“寒冬”俨然也已经来到。
据北京房地产交易管理网数据显示，11月上半月，北京新盘签约为零，预定量也仅为14套，而当月入市新盘达到4014套，这创造调控后签约最惨淡记录。
而根据北京中原市场的统计显示，截至日前，年内北京新建住宅期房供应项目135个，共取得预售许可证180次，供应房源56729套，合计727.41万平米，而其中已经网签出售23878套，平均去化率为42.1%，再创历史新低。
从全国市场来看，也是“寒气逼人”。
楼市成交量的萎靡不济，压制了开发商在土地市场的想法。
销售回款速度的放缓，让标杆房企购地愈发谨慎。中原地产统计数据显示：本月，仅有万科、绿城两家房企共计花费约21亿元购入4宗地块。其中，绿城参股山东东营区一宗商住用地仅花费9800万元。而前期每月都有购地支出的保利、中海等房企在10月则未有动作。
同时，在国土部监控的主要的133个主要城市中，前十月土地成交为7734宗，其中4619宗是以底价成交，比重约为60%，13个主要一线城市中成交地块中底价成交占比达到了52.8%。
房地产业内人士对此称：相比房价拐点，土地市场拐点已率先出现。
而各地降价潮的涌现，加剧了开发商的悲观气氛，同时，也让楼市观望情绪愈发浓厚。对此，北京中原分析认为：楼市拐点已经非常明显的开始接近，房价下调的趋势已经明显。
Nov 1st half new property launched 4014 units, actual sold 0...not even 1 unit sold.....no buyers, all wait for further down price....
IMF报告警示中国面临房价下跌贷款恶化等风险http://www.crei.cn 2011年11月16日 来源：东方网
国际货币基金组织（IMF）于北京时间11月15日发布了该组织对中国金融部门的首次正式评估报告——“金融部门评估计划”（FSAP）报告。报告结果显示，中国的金融体系总体强健，但却面临着不断累积的风险。
这份报告指出，尽管中国的金融部门已经在更加市场化方面取得了显著进步，同时也加强了监管，但仍然面临一些主要的短期风险——信贷快速扩张导致的贷款质 量恶化、影子银行和表外敞口导致金融脱媒现象日益增加、房地产价格下滑以及全球经济不确定性。因此，IMF呼吁中国进一步改革以支持金融稳定并鼓励强劲而 平衡的经济增长。
中国金融体系面临多重短期风险
呼吁中国采取政策
缓解房价下调负面影响
银行业压力测试结果：
多重风险互动或导致严重影响
spore situation is much worse than china...risk of spore property bubble burst is more serious.....
Hey fellow, need your help to give some feedback on my thread on how to make your money grow from 100k to 2m in 20 years..... Let's take a breakmfrom thisnthread.... I started the other thread coz I want to brain storm how middle class singaporeans can make the leap to become rich and financially stable.... So hope to hear from you at mynthread...
Vanke, china biggest developers, just said ALL their projects in Shanghai, irregardless of location slash price from 20-30%....
Vanke, china biggest developers, just said ALL their projects in Shanghai, irregardless of location slash price from 20-30%....
Why do you insist on shouting about the drop in prices in china? How many of us here have properties in china? We should focus on Singapore and hong kong as a proxy.... As but economy is quite similar
nice story...tons of foreign crooks in spore....time to send all back immediately....better check carefully if you have foreign employee, you are legally responsible to their criminal act.....
Today my friend called me up ask me can he have a loan and the amount he asked was large, high
5 digits. I ask why he needs the cash suddenly.
He said a couple of months back he had hired a pinoy guy to do some engineering work, unfortunately some accident happened but like all companies they no need to worry because there is insurance.
Here comes the best part, the insurance company refused to pay and so the company he worked for had to pay from their own pocket. Now i asked him what was the reason the insurance company did not want to pay the insurance? He said the reason was because the insurance company found out the qualifications of the person who caused the accident (the pinoy guy) was fake. The insurance compnay filed the case as false declaration and voided the insurance contract saying they are not liable becuase the person involved was not represented truthfully, so the company he worked for had to pay out the money from their own profits.
So i asked him, what has this got to do with him wanting to borrow money from me? He said the company is now suing him for negligence and hence he has to pay the part of the compensation with the company. Reason they are suing him because he hired the pinoy and now his behind got burnt.
80k from here?
http://asiasingapore.blogspot.com/2011/11/private-property-supply-in-pipeline.html
Looks l need to read posts from latest to earliest.
80k properties supply only mah?
According to my estimation, the govt can have enough land to build another 1,000k properties in the OCR region over the next 100 years! What is the issue with 80k supply over next 10 years? :p
80k from here?
http://asiasingapore.blogspot.com/2011/11/private-property-supply-in-pipeline.html
80k properties supply only mah?
According to my estimation, the govt can have enough land to build another 1,000k properties in the OCR region over the next 100 years! What is the issue with 80k supply over next 10 years? :p
Supply demand forces
flash flood
FT
Elections 2016
Jobs for us locals
10k property supply per year so what?
Every year got 40k immigrants, or about 20k new immigrant households. Then there is another 10k new marriages. Wah! Every year need 30k new properties! :scared-1:
80k properties supply only mah?
According to my estimation, the govt can have enough land to build another 1,000k properties in the OCR region over the next 100 years! What is the issue with 80k supply over next 10 years?
Supply demand forces
flash flood
FT
Elections 2016
Jobs for us locals
Give you an example:
The property was a 3-bedroom (1,152 square feet) mid-floor pool-facing unit at Blue Horizon (a condominium located at West Coast Crescent). The transacted price of the property was $1.02 million or $885 per square foot. Taking into account the downpayment of 40 per cent (we are assuming a 60 per cent loan), stamp duty of $25,200 and the legal fees of $2,500 (this is usually absorbed by the bank but we will include it here to be conservative), the total cash outlay is $435,700.
This particular property had a monthly rental of $3,800 that was on a lease that would last till November 2012, giving a gross annual rental of $45,600.
Moving on to the expenses side, if we assume an interest rate on the loan of 1 per cent per annum, then the annual interest costs on the 60 per cent loan will be $6,120 (this does not include principal repayments). The owner will also have to cover the $3,120 annual cost of the maintenance fee plus the sinking fund, and a property tax of $4,560 (10% of annual revenue — we have not taken out expenses to keep it simple). To keep things simple, we will assume no additional costs for repairs etc. The total expenses are thus $13,800.
Subtracting this from the gross annual rental we get a net retained rental of $31,800. Note that part of this will have to go towards reducing the principal amount of the mortgage, which is part of the monthly mortgage payment that you make to the bank.
And thus the return on invested cash is the net retained rental of $31,800 divided by the total cash outlay of $435,700, which gives a return of 7.3 per cent. Not too shabby when compared to deposit rates that are close to 0 per cent, but note that the return has been enhanced by leverage, and if interest rates rise this return will fall. Also it doesn't take into account any gaps in the rental income when tenants move out and the property is empty.
To recap, you can calculate your return on invested cash using the following formula:
Net retained rental (= Gross annual rental — mortgage interest — maintenance fees — property tax — other expenses)
Divided By
Total cash outlay (= downpayment + stamp duty + legal fees)
40% downpayment, so return on cash outlay = 7.3%.
20% downpayment => return on cash outlay = 12.84% !!!
Anybody here can give me another investment that is as low risk and yet give such high return??? ZERO! SIMPLY ZERO!!! :scared-1:
High return sure! Greek bonds 50% interest per year! But coupled with low risk (of default)? :p
if tenure 40 year,
P+I monthy payment = 2507.63
1/2 rental per month still 2291.67
still cash outflow per month.
thomastansb
17-11-11, 01:54
Good one. Greece bond only 25% btw.
Give you an example:
The property was a 3-bedroom (1,152 square feet) mid-floor pool-facing unit at Blue Horizon (a condominium located at West Coast Crescent). The transacted price of the property was $1.02 million or $885 per square foot. Taking into account the downpayment of 40 per cent (we are assuming a 60 per cent loan), stamp duty of $25,200 and the legal fees of $2,500 (this is usually absorbed by the bank but we will include it here to be conservative), the total cash outlay is $435,700.
This particular property had a monthly rental of $3,800 that was on a lease that would last till November 2012, giving a gross annual rental of $45,600.
Moving on to the expenses side, if we assume an interest rate on the loan of 1 per cent per annum, then the annual interest costs on the 60 per cent loan will be $6,120 (this does not include principal repayments). The owner will also have to cover the $3,120 annual cost of the maintenance fee plus the sinking fund, and a property tax of $4,560 (10% of annual revenue — we have not taken out expenses to keep it simple). To keep things simple, we will assume no additional costs for repairs etc. The total expenses are thus $13,800.
Subtracting this from the gross annual rental we get a net retained rental of $31,800. Note that part of this will have to go towards reducing the principal amount of the mortgage, which is part of the monthly mortgage payment that you make to the bank.
And thus the return on invested cash is the net retained rental of $31,800 divided by the total cash outlay of $435,700, which gives a return of 7.3 per cent. Not too shabby when compared to deposit rates that are close to 0 per cent, but note that the return has been enhanced by leverage, and if interest rates rise this return will fall. Also it doesn't take into account any gaps in the rental income when tenants move out and the property is empty.
To recap, you can calculate your return on invested cash using the following formula:
Net retained rental (= Gross annual rental — mortgage interest — maintenance fees — property tax — other expenses)
Divided By
Total cash outlay (= downpayment + stamp duty + legal fees)
40% downpayment, so return on cash outlay = 7.3%.
20% downpayment => return on cash outlay = 12.84% !!!
Anybody here can give me another investment that is as low risk and yet give such high return??? ZERO! SIMPLY ZERO!!! :scared-1:
High return sure! Greek bonds 50% interest per year! But coupled with low risk (of default)? :p
Singaporeans first. Most FTs rent plenty of choices
Downward pressure on rent
FTs become PRs - unlikely
They land here make the $$$ and return
Every year got 40k immigrants, or about 20k new immigrant households
Most ppl here are seasoned enuf to work the numbers and returns
I'm interested to know if I buy now versus later - my cash outlay is sufficient to take 1.5 units instead of 1 unit
Hey fellow, need your help to give some feedback on my thread on how to make your money grow from 100k to 2m in 20 years..... Let's take a breakmfrom thisnthread.... I started the other thread coz I want to brain storm how middle class singaporeans can make the leap to become rich and financially stable.... So hope to hear from you at mynthread...
you are funny.
ever heard of situation where majority of a population is rich?
If everybody is beautiful, who is ugly?
10k property supply per year so what?
Every year got 40k immigrants, or about 20k new immigrant households. Then there is another 10k new marriages. Wah! Every year need 30k new properties! :scared-1:
this kind of rubbish & baseless number, nobody questions, can anyhow shout...any number I put, 10th to 100th of noise, scolding.....all these rubbish here....haha...ok lah, just reflect on yourselves......totally hopeless...
who care, just post accordingly, time will tell......:)
Give you an example:
The property was a 3-bedroom (1,152 square feet) mid-floor pool-facing unit at Blue Horizon (a condominium located at West Coast Crescent). The transacted price of the property was $1.02 million or $885 per square foot. Taking into account the downpayment of 40 per cent (we are assuming a 60 per cent loan), stamp duty of $25,200 and the legal fees of $2,500 (this is usually absorbed by the bank but we will include it here to be conservative), the total cash outlay is $435,700.
This particular property had a monthly rental of $3,800 that was on a lease that would last till November 2012, giving a gross annual rental of $45,600.
Moving on to the expenses side, if we assume an interest rate on the loan of 1 per cent per annum, then the annual interest costs on the 60 per cent loan will be $6,120 (this does not include principal repayments). The owner will also have to cover the $3,120 annual cost of the maintenance fee plus the sinking fund, and a property tax of $4,560 (10% of annual revenue — we have not taken out expenses to keep it simple). To keep things simple, we will assume no additional costs for repairs etc. The total expenses are thus $13,800.
Subtracting this from the gross annual rental we get a net retained rental of $31,800. Note that part of this will have to go towards reducing the principal amount of the mortgage, which is part of the monthly mortgage payment that you make to the bank.
And thus the return on invested cash is the net retained rental of $31,800 divided by the total cash outlay of $435,700, which gives a return of 7.3 per cent. Not too shabby when compared to deposit rates that are close to 0 per cent, but note that the return has been enhanced by leverage, and if interest rates rise this return will fall. Also it doesn't take into account any gaps in the rental income when tenants move out and the property is empty.
To recap, you can calculate your return on invested cash using the following formula:
Net retained rental (= Gross annual rental — mortgage interest — maintenance fees — property tax — other expenses)
Divided By
Total cash outlay (= downpayment + stamp duty + legal fees)
40% downpayment, so return on cash outlay = 7.3%.
20% downpayment => return on cash outlay = 12.84% !!!
Anybody here can give me another investment that is as low risk and yet give such high return??? ZERO! SIMPLY ZERO!!! :scared-1:
High return sure! Greek bonds 50% interest per year! But coupled with low risk (of default)? :p
no need to shout...the most happy for 1 yr.....
pproperty will down >50% in next 2-3 yrs.....who buy ILLIQUID property now under current crisis situation....
happy for own song only...so ah Q....living in denial....
calculate & look at the number very happy....you are selling in future, not now....when crisis trigger, recession comes, all quiet quiet, cannot eat & sleep....once down, don't expect property price to come back to current level in next 15 years.....this debt crisis is going to cut global pay, this is the main cause of current debt issue....top down pay cut, a huge cut, not 5-10% type.....those top earner easily >70% pay cut.....
zai lah...hold tight tight to your property....get some popcorn to watch the whole episode to unfold.....:):)
u tok machiam like nvr answer to my qn leh:confused:
Maybe i dun understand yr qns.
To simplfy , if u can say >50% is bull,
then a lot of ppl (>50%) is in this grp lor.
Haha
Fitch: U.S. bank outlook could worsen over Europe
November 16th, 2011
[/URL]
By Wallace Witkowski
SAN FRANCISCO ([URL="http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fitch-us-bank-outlook-could-worsen-over-europe-2011-11-16?dist=afterbell"]MarketWatch (http://twitter.com/share)) — Fitch Ratings said Wednesday that the credit outlook for U.S. banks can worsen if the euro-zone debt crisis is not resolved in a timely manner.
haha...major Europe banks already almost all going to bankrupt, yet US banks is even worse than Europe...just because nown the focus is inEurope, once explode like MF Global bankruptcy, all will know how bad is US condition.....all are just junk & rubbish, wait ti trigger, that is all....
It’s Official: DEBT JUMPS TO $15 TRILLION
November 16th, 2011
From WT (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/16/federal-debt-more-15-trillion/):
The Treasury Department (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/department-of-the-treasury/) said Wednesday that federal debt now tops $15 trillion — a staggering figure that has risen precipitously over the last decade.
The exact debt total stood at $15.034 trillion as of the end of business Tuesday, an increase of $56 billion over Monday’s tally.
haha...In Aug, when they debate to raise debt limit, was ony 14.3, now 15 liao within 3 months....in this rate, bankrupt soon.....also they forgot to mention, US DEBT to GDP alreay >100% now.....
the more the debt raise, the more the budget to cut next week....
good luck.....
China’s Real Estate Collapse
November 16th, 2011
by South of Wall Street (http://www.southofwallstreet.com/2011/11/chinas-real-estate-collapse.html)
China’s Real Estate Collapse
The situation in Europe is clearly bad, and after reading Michael Lewis’ new book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393081818?ie=UTF8&tag=moto07-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0393081818)… appears almost impossible to be resolved without massive defaults. However, the other domino in the equation is the Chinese real estate market. The ‘global growth engine’, China, is running out of steam. Their policy of placing market orders on anything and everything to inflate stimulate the economy – surprise, surprise - is proving to be unsustainable.
property price in china is coming down very fast....collapsing?? next few months will know, also a hard landing coming??.....
Citigroup’s Buiter on Europe: ‘time is running out fast’
November 16th, 2011
Good afternoon,
Willem Buiter, Citigroup’s Chief Economist, spoke with Bloomberg Television’s Tom Keene today about the crisis in Europe.
Buiter said that “time is running out fast” and that “it could be weeks, it could be days, before there is a material risk of a fundamentally unnecessary default by a country like Spain or Italy which would be a financial catastrophe dragging down the European banking system and North America with it.”
within days or weeks....sooner the better.....
Italy Opts Not To Release Preliminary GDP Data As It Sets Off To Raise $600 Billion In Debt In 2012
November 16th, 2011
We are trying to decide what is funnier: Italy cancelling bond auctions and telling the world it does not need the cash, even as its Treasury Director tells the world the country will need to raise €440 billion… that’s €440,000,000,000 in cash, next year, or that as Reuters reported earlier, the country has simply decided not to issue preliminary Q3 GDP data.
start to hide & play with account data...the more they hide, the more worry the world is....think for the worst.....
Brett Arends: Nancy Pelosi and her husband can own a ton of Visa stock while she is legislating on credit cards. I can’t own Visa stock while I am writing about credit cards. What is wrong with our country?
November 16th, 2011
By Brett Arends, MarketWatch
SALT LAKE CITY — I’m an id.iot.
After watching the “60 Minutes” expose of insider-dealing by members of Congress, I’m left wondering (not for the first time, I might add): Why on Earth did I choose journalism as a career? Watch the “60 Minutes” report.
Is spore the same?? who cut down supply of property, use monopolised BTO to control supply in last few yrs, then open floodgate to let millions of foreigners to come in, then get banks to loan out at super low rate while most country interest spread is >300% of ours, create tons of easy money & get in millions of outsiders to buy limited property in last few yrs.....yet they refuse to disclose all MP, their siblings & relatives, property transaction from 2004 till now??......
all bubble will burst....bigger crash harder....that is all...
whatever will be will be....time will tell...their heart know...got karma wan....:)
phantom_opera
17-11-11, 08:15
《21世纪》：你预计这个冬天会有多长？何时形势会好转？
郁亮：冬天有多长我不知道。房地产是经济问题，也不全是经济问题，我现在刻意不去想形势好转这件事情，这会影响我们进行过冬的准备。
《21世纪》：就是说，你宁愿把未来想得更困难一点？
郁亮：万科从来不去预测，不去赌政策和未来。我想每种调控政策的退出一定有替代政策，会有有序的政策安排，过去那种“一放就乱，一收就死”的恶性循环不太可能再出现。
我们现在只想怎么去应对。房地产行业已经进入了下半场，这和上半场不一样。过去指望好产品就可以卖高价，这个逻辑已不成立。下半场才刚刚开始，没有任何一家房企稳操胜券，包括万科在内，在下半场都要继续练好内功。
《21世纪》：你说下半场万科要盖“有人住”的房子，这是否意味着未来房地产的投资属性将被抑制？
郁亮：居住是房子的基本属性，投资是附属属性。投资属性在未来不可能得到很好的利用，这个行业不太可能再有暴利，政府的基本政策，让这个行业赚取不合理利润的情形不再出现。
=> interview with Wanke .... looks like in the future Singapore will be the most attractive property market in Asia Pacific lol
《21世纪》：你预计这个冬天会有多长？何时形势会好转？
郁亮：冬天有多长我不知道。房地产是经济问题，也不全是经济问题，我现在刻意不去想形势好转这件事情，这会影响我们进行过冬的准备。
《21世纪》：就是说，你宁愿把未来想得更困难一点？
郁亮：万科从来不去预测，不去赌政策和未来。我想每种调控政策的退出一定有替代政策，会有有序的政策安排，过去那种“一放就乱，一收就死”的恶性循环不太可能再出现。
我们现在只想怎么去应对。房地产行业已经进入了下半场，这和上半场不一样。过去指望好产品就可以卖高价，这个逻辑已不成立。下半场才刚刚开始，没有任何一家房企稳操胜券，包括万科在内，在下半场都要继续练好内功。
《21世纪》：你说下半场万科要盖“有人住”的房子，这是否意味着未来房地产的投资属性将被抑制？
郁亮：居住是房子的基本属性，投资是附属属性。投资属性在未来不可能得到很好的利用，这个行业不太可能再有暴利，政府的基本政策，让这个行业赚取不合理利润的情形不再出现。
=> interview with Wanke .... looks like in the future Singapore will be the most attractive property market in Asia Pacific lol
Read a magzine commentary when I was in China recently, it predicts that developers in China will slowly become "main contractors" as the government starts to control land supply and selling price, which means developers in the future can only charge a certain percentage of profit over their costs. Fat profit from strategic land banking and market sentiment will become more and more difficult to make.
Basically, BTO the whole China property market. Should it be the way for Singapore, too?
思捷降呢恐遭狂掟
飽受歐洲經濟問題困擾的思捷（00330 (http://money18.on.cc/info/liveinfo_quote.html?symbol=00330)http://ad1.on.cc/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=bannerid:40171），市值顯著萎縮，儘管早前恒指季度檢討中，幸保藍籌股身份，但在MSCI明晟最新一季調整中，遭剔出MSCI香港指數，淪為MSCI香港小型股指數成分股.
昨日思捷甫開市已失守「青蟹股」，全日挫4.2%，收報9.61元；相反，一太逆市漲2.61%，收報8.62元，市值超過331億元。
Esprit shares price from 100+ down to 9.6 today, down>92% due to europe bad economy, no demand, it share price down 95% in last few months...
same to many who has business with Europe....later will be US....
when it crashes down, no mercy...same to property...time will come....
business down, cut jobs, cut pay, cut spending.....ai lai liao.....
phantom_opera
17-11-11, 08:30
Read a magzine commentary when I was in China recently, it predicts that developers in China will slowly become "main contractors" as the government starts to control land supply and selling price, which means developers in the future can only charge a certain percentage of profit over their costs. Fat profit from strategic land banking and market sentiment will become more and more difficult to make.
Basically, BTO the whole China property market. Should it be the way for Singapore, too?
In fact, interest rate in China is so high that rental makes more sense .... it is going to be quite a long winter just like the China-A share ....
A bloomberg article today says it expects "4 biggest cities in china will register a MASSIVE drop of 0.3% in October" ( ok i added the word "massive" :cool: )
Note this is the usual bloomberg analyst poll before official data. The official data is out tomorrow.
Now in this thread some one has been posting prices in china already dropped by 20 or 30%. we will see how true it is tomorrow. :cool:
思捷降呢恐遭狂掟
飽受歐洲經濟問題困擾的思捷（00330 (http://money18.on.cc/info/liveinfo_quote.html?symbol=00330)http://ad1.on.cc/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=bannerid:40171），市值顯著萎縮，儘管早前恒指季度檢討中，幸保藍籌股身份，但在MSCI明晟最新一季調整中，遭剔出MSCI香港指數，淪為MSCI香港小型股指數成分股.
昨日思捷甫開市已失守「青蟹股」，全日挫4.2%，收報9.61元；相反，一太逆市漲2.61%，收報8.62元，市值超過331億元。
Esprit shares price from 100+ down to 9.6 today, down>92% due to europe bad economy, no demand, it share price down 95% in last few months...
same to many who has business with Europe....later will be US....
when it crashes down, no mercy...same to property...time will come....
business down, cut jobs, cut pay, cut spending.....ai lai liao.....
GIC入股銀泰美銀籲買
日前銀泰百貨（01833）獲新加坡主權基金GIC認購逾1.3億新股及舊股...
淡馬錫接貨持建行10%
外電消息指，美銀最近出售的約104億股建行（00939）H股，淡馬錫已購入約三分之一，令持股量增至近 一成
with Esprit.....
look at our hero, Temasek/GIC...till today, crisis coming, now still buy like no tomorrow...why don't wait for crisis to trigger, when market panic & in fear....
desperate?? die faster.....
Obama insists US does not fear China [while he and Congress gut the military!]
November 16th, 2011
CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — President Barack Obama insisted Wednesday that the United States does not fear China, even as he announced a new security agreement with Australia that is widely viewed as a response to Beijing’s growing aggressiveness.
China responded swiftly, warning that an expanded U.S. military footprint in Australia may not be appropriate and deserved greater scrutiny.
very nice....Australia & US against China, Spore is in between....just prepare for it....
GIC入股銀泰美銀籲買
日前銀泰百貨（01833）獲新加坡主權基金GIC認購逾1.3億新股及舊股...
淡馬錫接貨持建行10%
外電消息指，美銀最近出售的約104億股建行（00939）H股，淡馬錫已購入約三分之一，令持股量增至近 一成
with Esprit.....
look at our hero, Temasek/GIC...till today, crisis coming, now still buy like no tomorrow...why don't wait for crisis to trigger, when market panic & in fear....
desperate?? die faster.....
Not sure if "acquisition fee" come into play to make up the bonus this year?
Not sure if "acquisition fee" come into play to make up the bonus this year?
Temasek/GIC have lost their ways & desperate now...can see it...eventually will see them panic & anyhow try to push up market...the more they do it they will fall uglier & more painful....sigh....time is coming......:)
this guy may not be that popular, but he has the contact & right view point most of the time....let see....
John Mauldin – This Crisis is the End Game, It’s a Bang Moment
November 16th, 2011
(http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/11/16_John_Mauldin_-_This_Crisis_is_the_End_Game%2C_Its_a_Bang_Moment.html)
With stocks plunging on renewed fears of Europe being a systemic risk to the global banking system, today King World News interviewed internationally followed John Mauldin, President of Millennium Wave Securities. Mauldin spoke candidly with KWN about the crisis, “Well, we’re watching it come down to the eighth inning. The question has always been, can they run it into extra innings or is the game going to be over? It is the end game, it’s a bang moment. All of these crises tend to have something where we look up and say, ‘Wow.’”
John Mauldin continues:
“For instance we look at the credit crisis and we say, ‘Lehman, we had our Lehman moment.’ Well, no, we had a credit crisis and Lehman triggered the final waterfall. The crisis was there and the problems were there all along. The problems are there in Europe. They’ve got too much sovereign debt, their banks have too much of that sovereign debt and are basically functionally bankrupt.
Interesting way of calculating. Not saying your're incorrect but ...
this way basically assumes a few things ...property moves only in one direction (UP) and mortgage rates remains low for loan tenure (1% or so) and you can always find a tenant at your rate.
No wonder alot of HDB uncles and aunties are now buying into pte condos ...attracted to the bright lights of "high" yields.
Give you an example:
To recap, you can calculate your return on invested cash using the following formula:
Net retained rental (= Gross annual rental — mortgage interest — maintenance fees — property tax — other expenses)
Divided By
Total cash outlay (= downpayment + stamp duty + legal fees)
40% downpayment, so return on cash outlay = 7.3%.
20% downpayment => return on cash outlay = 12.84% !!!
OWS will eventually make it big 1 day....this is a meaningful event, you will know it in few yrs down the road....nobody want it, but no choice, that is the world today...greedy & evil ruled, all debt will have to pay back, whatever will be will be, from here.....time will tell....
It may not hit spore, but the impact will sure affect & influence Spore....2016 will be very interesting....
‘We’re going to burn New York City to the ground’: ‘Tens of thousands’ to shut down Wall Street tomorrow as Occupy protesters plan day of action
November 16th, 2011
Less than forty-eight hours after an early morning police raid on Zuccotti Park, Occupy Wall Street protesters are warning city officials to expect their biggest demonstration yet.
A planned ‘day of action’ on November 17 has prompted the mayor’s office to prepare for ‘tens of thousands’ to descend on Wall Street tomorrow.
this way basically assumes a few things ...property moves only in one direction (UP)
A: No. Property can go DOWN, but if you don't sell, it doesn't matter right? You hold 20 years and you think ultimately property will go up or down? :D
and mortgage rates remains low for loan tenure (1% or so) and you can always find a tenant at your rate.
A: When mortgage rates go up, rental will have to go up.
Finding a tenant? No problem if you location is PRIME. That is why location location LOCATION!
Interesting way of calculating. Not saying your're incorrect but ...
this way basically assumes a few things ...property moves only in one direction (UP) and mortgage rates remains low for loan tenure (1% or so) and you can always find a tenant at your rate.
No wonder alot of HDB uncles and aunties are now buying into pte condos ...attracted to the bright lights of "high" yields.
this way basically assumes a few things ...property moves only in one direction (UP)
A: No. Property can go DOWN, but if you don't sell, it doesn't matter right? You hold 20 years and you think ultimately property will go up or down? :D
and mortgage rates remains low for loan tenure (1% or so) and you can always find a tenant at your rate.
A: When mortgage rates go up, rental will have to go up.
Finding a tenant? No problem if you location is PRIME. That is why location location LOCATION!
You are assuming there are many immigrants in Singapore renting. I think HDB is building rental flats also. Developers like FEO not able to sell off all its units are also looking for tenants.
It is a fact that many immigrants in Singapore are renting. Many new ones who just come in to Singapore every year will start off will renting. Some will buy after a few years, doesn't matter. It is the supply that is more important, not whether they rent or own. The fact that many of these immigrants are white collar high income workers, earnings being in top 20% income range in Singapore, you think they will ultimately live in HDB or private condos? :p
You are assuming there are many immigrants in Singapore renting. I think HDB is building rental flats also. Developers like FEO not able to sell off all its units are also looking for tenants.
property market like death water now, no foreigners come to buy, which fools come & buy under current global crisis, global eonomy may collapse any time now, still buy ILLIQUID property?? with 4 yrs SSD? you think they brain dead??....
china & HK down 10-40%, why buy here?? buy there better.......S$ is dropping agianst RMB in last 6 months almost 8% now....more to come, S$ is not a strong currency as what govt claimed...property down still bear exchange rate down??....
property price already dropping, dont try to cheat yourself....transaction down big way, price will follow thru' to go down....
retrenchment already started, no paid leave everywhere...business down, no order, cancel order, no jobs, foreigners here for what?? PM already said tough time ahead, we will lose more jobs....no demand, cut cost, cut spending, cut pay.....Germany already said NO to print money, whole Europe is shaking now, news will pop anytime on bond yield surges, then downgrade & default....
land already no bidder...35% down in land price dont sell today will have to sell 50% below current price later....look at china & HK sell land below bidding price now....land price no need to be 70% of property cost, can be 17% if economy is bad....down 75%, how much will property price drop??....
ikan bilis
17-11-11, 12:01
i am clueless abt china ppty market.....
wats the developer pricing vs nearby resale less den 5yo? isit 20-30% dearer den resale in general before this correction?
have been reading china developer cutting px....hows the resale market?
1. it's true that house price starts to decline at beijing, especially the outskirt area. (...but starts only, not those already 20-30% correction liow). that's the info i got from my china friend in beijing, he had been hunting for a home for about 1-2 yrs liow... note that this is no established price index/transparency in china, closest is like sofun ?....
2. i had been surfing hk websites, seems like hk side nobody cares about any incoming china real estate price correction. anyway, i also boh-chap any china real estate correction. i collect rental only, i'm happy as long as my cashflow is about balance (plus me got free condo home and some office space). i'm still bull-ish on sgp real estate...
:rolleyes: ;)
Always the entertainer Basic...welcome back..
proud owner
17-11-11, 12:10
mind sharing wats % of ur total portfolio in ppty now?
about 50 pct in property
25 pct gold ( bought below 1000 oz/usd + stocks ) = can liquidate fairly easily
25 pct cash (idle money .. )
Always the entertainer Basic...welcome back..
who is entertainer...who has the last laugh...haha....easy lah...
so many jokers in this forum....pick words, pick person....then attack, who care about them....
they shout without base...they are right....they think they know china & HK market sit at home.....dream lah....
be patient...few months want to make double or down 50%, go casino or gamble faster....just enjoy the process now.....when it crashing down, FUN....:):)
thomastansb
17-11-11, 12:16
Come on, investments will have risk. There is no such thing call sure gain. You want sure gain, go for 0.5% fixed deposit. Gain in number, loss in value.The risks have to be acceptable to the buyer. If you buy blindly, then you are sure to lose money. Stocks, properties whatever.Even if the yield drop to 5% from 14%, it is still generating 5% income. Where can you find safe 5% yields nowadays?
We are of course betting Singapore will not fail and this is just one of the risks. If not, go for Italy. 7% yield now but no one is sure if Italy will pay up. Later 50% pubic hair cut, you can teh lan pa all the way.So put it simple, you want higher returns, there will be higher risks. But property so far has a better ratio of risks vs returns in the market currently.
Interesting way of calculating. Not saying your're incorrect but ...this way basically assumes a few things ...property moves only in one direction (UP) and mortgage rates remains low for loan tenure (1% or so) and you can always find a tenant at your rate.No wonder alot of HDB uncles and aunties are now buying into pte condos ...attracted to the bright lights of "high" yields.
25 pct cash (idle money .. )
<- Waiting for the 50% property price crash that bugger is singing about?
By the way, now my CASH %age as total portfolio higher than you! Really waiting for the 50% property price crash! (if it will ever happen in my dream???.....) :p
about 50 pct in property
25 pct gold ( bought below 1000 oz/usd + stocks ) = can liquidate fairly easily
25 pct cash (idle money .. )
proud owner
17-11-11, 12:27
25 pct cash (idle money .. )
<- Waiting for the 50% property price crash that bugger is singing about?
By the way, now my CASH %age as total portfolio higher than you! Really waiting for the 50% property price crash! (if it will ever happen in my dream???.....) :p
ahhah good for you
i do hope for a 50% correction too ... but 30 % is good enuff for me ...
Condo Kaiser
17-11-11, 12:34
Very hard to crash a lot (> 50%) in Singapore la.... When govt put in the 40% downpayment and 16% SSD, both of these measures has effectively removed the possibility for high price fluctuation.
1) Once you have 40% down payment, bank won't call on your loan margin unless property valuation drop by more than 50%.
2) With 16% SSD, seller will think twice about fire sales because keeping the condo empty is more appealing than suffering the upfront loss of 16%.
3) China & HK price down is mainly all in Developer sales. Subsale/Resale no one moving because owners have cash to wait it out. Most of my friends in Shanghai and Beijing who won multiples properties have paid for them in full (too hard to get loan) so they have zero incentive to sell now. All they are losing is the opportunity cost.
4) Of cos I believe properties prices will likely soften, but 50% across the board is highly unlikely in Singapore climate. Some weaker projects with weak owners might see such crazy prices.
:2cents:
Very hard to crash a lot (> 50%) in Singapore la.... When govt put in the 40% downpayment and 16% SSD, both of these measures has effectively removed the possibility for high price fluctuation.
1) Once you have 40% down payment, bank won't call on your loan margin unless property valuation drop by more than 50%.
2) With 16% SSD, seller will think twice about fire sales because keeping the condo empty is more appealing than suffering the upfront loss of 16%.
3) China & HK price down is mainly all in Developer sales. Subsale/Resale no one moving because owners have cash to wait it out. Most of my friends in Shanghai and Beijing who won multiples properties have paid for them in full (too hard to get loan) so they have zero incentive to sell now. All they are losing is the opportunity cost.
4) Of cos I believe properties prices will likely soften, but 50% across the board is highly unlikely in Singapore climate. Some weaker projects with weak owners might see such crazy prices.
:2cents:
read carefully, down >50% in 2-3 yrs time, not now...
price flutuation depend on economy situation, not govt policy....when recession come, job lost, retrenchment, shortage of money chase interest up, foreigners no jobs & leave, sell & stop renting....
tons of sellers out there now, buyers all disappear, is a fact, nobody buy ILLIQUID property now, when global crisis trigger 10x bigger than lehman bros this time....all will be panic, many lost money in stock, business, bad debt from western world, even from banks, insurance & financial comapny....recent MF global already made many multi-millionaires in US lost their fortune.....
when bad times come, you will see the effect....40% & SSD only less than 1 yr, not many affected...
Beijing & shanghai, chinese is big gamblers, lose in business they will dump to raise funds, like those wenzhou bosses, tons of property in shamghai, all has to let go....many also due to jobs & many in hands of weak holders too...if you see the numbers ofunitsn for sales in rent in china, super huge, wait for the big sale time like SSE down from 6200 to 1600 within 4-6 months....
HK has similar SSD as spore & more strigent, they cut price fast & run road, they are more realistic & better biz mind than spore, they know the risk & global situation now....definitely smarter & shrewd...
how do you get that calculation?
based on $1million property
mortgage 60% = $600k.
tenure assume 35 years to reduce monthly payment.
rate 4%
mortgage P+I payment = 2656.65
gross rental yield 5.5%
rental per month = 55k / 12 = 4583.33
if you half your rental, = 2291.67
which is less than monthly payment of 2656.65, ie cash outflow
so curious as to how you can half your rental and still get cash back at mortgage rate of 4%.
i cannot get his numbers too.
assuming mortgage at 1% 40y tenure LTV 60%, his gross rental yield has to be 7% and more to just hit ROE of 14% (and stamp duty not included)...
1. it's true that house price starts to decline at beijing, especially the outskirt area. (...but starts only, not those already 20-30% correction liow). that's the info i got from my china friend in beijing, he had been hunting for a home for about 1-2 yrs liow... note that this is no established price index/transparency in china, closest is like sofun ?....
There is official pty price data, due tomorrow. Bloomberg analyst poll shows there will be a 0.4% fall in the 4 biggest cities. Tomorrow we will see.
I posted this earlier, but he managed to drown it with tons of Internet cuttings.
I agree with Basic. Pty prices are gradually coming down. My friend just collected key for his 2 bed at built timah. Rejected offer of 1.7m one month ago now regret cos last offer yesterday only 1.52m. Think he will sell cos take some money off the table first.
For these two reasons - I think SG will go through a Zombie period of property prices. Tx will fall and only motivated buyers/sellers will deal.
Very hard to crash a lot (> 50%) in Singapore la.... When govt put in the 40% downpayment and 16% SSD, both of these measures has effectively removed the possibility for high price fluctuation.
1) Once you have 40% down payment, bank won't call on your loan margin unless property valuation drop by more than 50%.
2) With 16% SSD, seller will think twice about fire sales because keeping the condo empty is more appealing than suffering the upfront loss of 16%.
:2cents:
who is entertainer...who has the last laugh...haha....easy lah...
so many jokers in this forum....pick words, pick person....then attack, who care about them....
they shout without base...they are right....they think they know china & HK market sit at home.....dream lah....
be patient...few months want to make double or down 50%, go casino or gamble faster....just enjoy the process now.....when it crashing down, FUN....:):)
today this thread is quiet, very nice, without those noise & nonsense from all who only go personal......all the rubbish....
1 good thing I learn from this thread is to ignore all these nonsense....when I am free, F them back...or I can be relaxed & hack care....don't even read their comment, don't talk about reply....I post my thing, don't like to read, get lost, who bother about their comments....
reason, analysis, fact, actual situation...all there, take it or leave it, be resposible to your own act....
property is a long process...from buy or sell to completion already take >4-6 months, what you expect 6 months to do for property?? all the naive....I know their intention, let them be what they want......:)
I agree with Basic. Pty prices are gradually coming down. My friend just collected key for his 2 bed at built timah. Rejected offer of 1.7m one month ago now regret cos last offer yesterday only 1.52m. Think he will sell cos take some money off the table first.
already down >10% yet unsold...more to go....who want to buy ILLIQUID property now...only panic sellers worry of country & banks default & bankrupt anytime....may be this weekend or next month or early next yr....they know sure come, but just live in denial, HOPE will never come.....
a 30x bomb harder than Lehman bros.....:)
I agree with Basic. Pty prices are gradually coming down. My friend just collected key for his 2 bed at built timah. Rejected offer of 1.7m one month ago now regret cos last offer yesterday only 1.52m. Think he will sell cos take some money off the table first.
already down >10% yet unsold....more to go....who want to buy ILLIQUID property now...only panic sellers worry of country & banks default & bankrupt anytime....may be this weekend or next month or early next yr....they know sure come, but just live in denial, HOPE will never come.....
a 30x bomb harder than Lehman bros.....:)
Condo Kaiser
17-11-11, 14:19
Haha i hope what you say is true. 50% off I will buy....
I just feel heightened risk does not always means crashing prices. The very fact that properties are illiquid will make it harder for price to crash.
And if there are no buyers, then there wont be transactions... Then prices will not drop... Just dry up completely...
Aiya.... only time will tell la... no point trying to argue with each other here.... I will agree to disagree...:spliff:
Hamilton , u joined in oct 2011, and you only have 2 posts in this thread ? :cool:
ILLIQUID property
I might not agree with basic on many things, but I have to say that pty mkt going forward will be become more and more illiquid because of the effects of ssd, loan restriction, and economic pessimism. Price movement might be stubborn, but I see much lower volume in 2012.:2cents:
I might not agree with basic on many things, but I have to say that pty mkt going forward will be become more and more illiquid because of the effects of ssd, loan restriction, and economic pessimism. Price movement might be stubborn, but I see much lower volume in 2012.:2cents:
wait for trigger.....stock market down, retrenchment, everywhere default, foreigners leave, interest rate already up 0.5-1% since beginning of this yr, fund withdraw, bank squeeze....
with coming global debt burst....don't hope....stay out totally....
price movement is not stubborn...even price down 10% now, also no buyers...wait for default & bankrupt, after lehman bankrupt for 6 months, STI down from 3900 to 1465, property price down 30%...this time is worse & don't hope for QE anymore, once action start is fast & furious.....:)
I might not agree with basic on many things, but I have to say that pty mkt going forward will be become more and more illiquid because of the effects of ssd, loan restriction, and economic pessimism. Price movement might be stubborn, but I see much lower volume in 2012.:2cents:
wait for trigger.....stock market down, retrenchment, everywhere default, foreigners leave, interest rate already up 0.5-1% since beginning of this yr, fund withdraw, bank squeeze....
with coming global debt burst....don't hope....stay out totally....
price movement is not stubborn...even price down 10% now, also no buyers...wait for default & bankrupt, after lehman bankrupt for 6 months, STI down from 3900 to 1465, property price down 30%...this time is worse & don't hope for QE anymore, once action start is fast & furious.....:)
phantom_opera
17-11-11, 14:40
BoE signals more QE lol
BoE signals more QE lol
so?? signal, so happy?? go & buy Greece & Italy bonds lo...haha...lol lol....:):)
this kind of rubbish & baseless number, nobody questions, can anyhow shout...any number I put, 10th to 100th of noise, scolding.....all these rubbish here....haha...ok lah, just reflect on yourselves......totally hopeless...
who care, just post accordingly, time will tell......:)
Hi Basic, its a fact, population went up from 5.08 to 5.18 last 1 year...
This is a real fact.... actually TeddyBear quote is already conservative...
It is a fact that many immigrants in Singapore are renting. Many new ones who just come in to Singapore every year will start off will renting. Some will buy after a few years, doesn't matter. It is the supply that is more important, not whether they rent or own. The fact that many of these immigrants are white collar high income workers, earnings being in top 20% income range in Singapore, you think they will ultimately live in HDB or private condos? :p
Actually Teddy has a point....
The way SIN government is churning the FT (good times a lot comes in, bad times a lot leave, good times return, a lot of FT comes back again)
If the trend is like this, then actually we will have a big pool renter...
Global economy is really bleak according to investors like Jim Rogers and Warrant Buffet. They all believe that the coming downturn is more serious than 2008. Our government also hinted that the President is likely to use his second key during his term in office. All governments know the seriousness of the situation but they cannot press the panic button cause it would trigger a sudden meltdown. In fact most governments are already planning for the coming.
Smart investors like the rich and wealthy are not buying serious real estate even in Singapore now as evident in the slow take up rate of high end real estate.
Daiwa Securities reported today that Singapore property market is going to face a long downturn.
Need I say more?
Hi Basic, its a fact, population went up from 5.08 to 5.18 last 1 year...
This is a real fact.... actually TeddyBear quote is already conservative...
so obvious all of you go personal & biased, you disagree? I care??....
I know what is going on, who bother noise...
if all the bulls get out of this bear thread...go & post in your bull thread & shout what you like, that is better ....the more you post here the more worry you show, that is all.....
Global economy is really bleak according to investors like Jim Rogers and Warrant Buffet. They all believe that the coming downturn is more serious than 2008. Our government also hinted that the President is likely to use his second key during his term in office. All governments know the seriousness of the situation but they cannot press the panic button cause it would trigger a sudden meltdown. In fact most governments are already planning for the coming.
Smart investors like the rich and wealthy are not buying serious real estate even in Singapore now as evident in the slow take up rate of high end real estate.
Daiwa Securities reported today that Singapore property market is going to face a long downturn.
Need I say more?
so obvious.....all bulls here just pretend to be blind or they are really xxx.....:):)
I want I want! Don't need to down 50%, genuine down 10% I will buy! But must be prime location, high floor and good facing lah! :D
already down >10% yet unsold...more to go....who want to buy ILLIQUID property now...only panic sellers worry of country & banks default & bankrupt anytime....may be this weekend or next month or early next yr....they know sure come, but just live in denial, HOPE will never come.....
a 30x bomb harder than Lehman bros.....:)
BoE signals more QE lol
What's the big deal? Even the Governor of BOE is not enthuse:
"Sir Mervyn yesterday admitted that despite this cash injection, ‘growth over the next few quarters is likely to be markedly weaker than in the August projection’. "
With one in three chance of double dip in England, BOE don't have a choice. The best outcome is tepid growth......
I am a inherent BEAR! :tongue3:
so obvious all of you go personal & biased, you disagree? I care??....
I know what is going on, who bother noise...
if all the bulls get out of this bear thread...go & post in your bull thread & shout what you like, that is better ....the more you post here the more worry you show, that is all.....
I might not agree with basic on many things, but I have to say that pty mkt going forward will be become more and more illiquid because of the effects of ssd, loan restriction, and economic pessimism. Price movement might be stubborn, but I see much lower volume in 2012.:2cents:
In fact, I think it will make it more difficult for the government to remove the ssd as instead of enticing the market appetite, it may just trigger a wave of profit-taking, or more precisely loss-cutting, isn't it?
Hi Basic, its a fact, population went up from 5.08 to 5.18 last 1 year...
This is a real fact.... actually TeddyBear quote is already conservative...
Will it decrease if the economy goes south?
I want I want! Don't need to down 50%, genuine down 10% I will buy! But must be prime location, high floor and good facing lah! :D
Teddy, there is a recent transaction at Light @ Cairnhill at 2000psf which is 10% lower than the previous record, you can try your luck there
Teddy, there is a recent transaction at Light @ Cairnhill at 2000psf which is 10% lower than the previous record, you can try your luck there
haha...don't waste time with him....almost all bull here is useless...living in fear in this thread.....:)
Heading for a prolonged
downturn - Daiwa Capital Markets
We expect a residential-market downturn from end-2011 to end-
2014, with prices declining overall by 22-26% …
… triggered by short-term GDP weakness, external uncertainty,
giving way to rising levels of unsold inventory, vacant units
Growth outlook Singapore: private residential prices and forecasts (S$/sq ft)
We expect a subdued residential-property market to
persist for several consecutive years. Initially, we expect
the downturn to be triggered by external factors and the
forthcoming cyclical economic slowdown, but from late
2012, we believe the sector’s structural issues (rising
levels of unsold inventory due to robust launch
schedules coupled with a formidable pipeline of
completions) will continue to depress rents and capital
values.
Refer to Daiwa Capital Markets for full report.
Light @ Cairnhill? Not in my book lei (meaning I not interested :p - I don't just anyhow buy because the property is perceived to be cheap. Who wants to buy "cheap" rubbish? :doh:).
Teddy, there is a recent transaction at Light @ Cairnhill at 2000psf which is 10% lower than the previous record, you can try your luck there
Light @ Cairnhill? Not in my book lei (meaning I not interested :p - I don't just anyhow buy because the property is perceived to be cheap. Who wants to buy "cheap" rubbish? :doh:).
Light@Cairnhill is rubbish?
Last time you mentioned that you bought something in 2009 in D9, 1400sqft at 1600psf, right? Is it same kind of rubbish as Light@Cairnhill?
Do you mind just naming a few developments that are "investment grade" based on your standard?
Light @ Cairnhill? Not in my book lei (meaning I not interested :p - I don't just anyhow buy because the property is perceived to be cheap. Who wants to buy "cheap" rubbish? :doh:).
wah! dont talk like that leh!:scared-2:
' light @ cairnhill ' is quite nice mah!
many of us here cant even afford it,how can u term it as 'rubbish'.
even if u are rich or born with silver spoon also dont be so arrogant leh:tongue3:
Light @ Cairnhill? Not in my book lei (meaning I not interested :p - I don't just anyhow buy because the property is perceived to be cheap. Who wants to buy "cheap" rubbish? :doh:).
talk rubbish.....:)
I am a inherent BEAR! :tongue3:
fake rubbish....:)
Light @ Cairnhill?. Who wants to buy "cheap" rubbish?
Lol. Never expect to see words like "Cairnhill", "cheap", and "rubbish" come together.:)
below 7 is with record...number should be much higher...
cut price >15%...some >40%....
more to come....winter time now...no more time....
房价下行序幕拉开 近3个月7起售楼处被砸事件
2011年11月17日 14:52张焕平《新世纪》-财新网
11月13日，上海万科 (http://quote.eastmoney.com/SZ000002.html)清林径楼盘新推房源降价15%，引起前期业主不满，聚集售楼处讨要说法未果，后将售楼处砸毁。
继今年5月北京、深圳等地个别楼盘相继降价之后，截至目前，从一线到二线城市、从华东、华南到华北区域，包括中海、万科等各大开发商，已集体拉开房价下 行的序幕。在降价的同时，部分城市出现了业主因房价下跌而与开发商产生纠纷的事件，并且在近期业主维权愈演愈烈，已升级成老业主打砸售楼处。
据财新网不完全统计，近3个月在北京上海等地已发生了7起售楼处被砸事件。
http://z1.dfcfw.com/2011/11/17/20111117145237323167784.jpg
近三个月7起售楼处被砸事件
以上业主打砸售楼处的原因基本上都是因为开发商楼盘减价促销，降价幅度都在15%以上。
万科售楼处被砸事件，此前也有发生。2008年9月3日，万科杭州四楼盘226套小户型房源以最低“7.5折”集中面市，就在万科杭州楼盘降价销售的第二天，万科在杭州的办公区被砸。
而面对老业主的维权，包括万科、龙湖、中海等多数开发商的态度是不退房、不补偿。
at least still have someone is awake.....spore is the same, but much worse....at least China FD rate is 3.5%, housing loan rate is 7%....
greed will all die in this decade.....no exception.....
中国房价是全球最大笑柄 泡沫一定会破灭
2011年11月17日 03:59牛刀国际财经时报
http://cmsjs.eastmoney.com/images/spacer.gif
中国的房价是全球一个最大的笑柄。我因为工作的缘故，常常奔波北京、上海和深圳等城市，夜晚开车，在北京五环兜一圈，周边的大量的楼盘亮灯率基本不到3 成，上海比北京更甚。一边是资本家的牛奶，宁可倒掉，也不降价卖给需要喝奶的人。中国现在也一样，大量的住宅宁可空置，也绝不降价卖给需要房子的人。
从趋势上看，这轮房价泡沫一定会破灭，捂着是没有用的。房价泡沫破灭后，中国经济将会回归常识，未来五至十年，中国将浩浩荡荡的启动一轮刺激内需的浪 潮。启动内需，几乎是刚刚闭幕的亚太经合组织会议的所有新兴国家的共识，也是我的新书《穷人通胀富人通缩》分析的未来趋势之一。我们到了启动内需的初始阶 段，那么，让我们来看看中国的内需。
2007年是我们这十年内需的顶峰阶段，当时的内需在宏观经济的三驾马车中，内需稳占第一，占比高 达43%；出口占22%，投资高达35%。就当时那种情况，我们都曾经批评政府投资过热，影响经济平稳发展。2007年，欧美国家内需占宏观经济比重都在 70%以上。
5年过去，再回过头来看，印度内需占比迅速超越达到70%，巴西达到53%，俄罗斯也达到 47%。我们呢？2010年，内需占比急剧下降到28%，而投资占比高达51%。这种经济架构不仅只是投资过热的问题，而是资产泡沫已经严重到无以复加的 地步。而且，我国内需占比较大的是政府消费，而不是城乡居民的消费。美国的政府消费是单列的，在整个消费中只占11%，
顺便说一句，中国的住宅计入在投资中，而将租金、物管费和水电燃气费用等计入消费中。普通城乡居民人口占92%，而消费比重只占60%。公务员加央企国营企业和上市公司 (http://topic.eastmoney.com/ssgsfh/)员工只有8%的人口，消费却占40%，这是多么大的差别。但是，差别既是潜力，就看如何激活了。(以上数据按照第六次人口普查总数据13.7亿人口初步评估。)
这样来看，我们还有什么内需？房价应该与城市居民收入状态相匹配，才有中国经济的健康运行，才有未来的内需。现在的房价至少超出城市居民实际购买力的 50%以上，开发商和政府的暴利一起挤压居民的消费，还能持续吗？守着房价泡沫能当饭吃吗？不可能。为了大多数人的利益，请李教授好好想想，下次出席这样 的论坛，不要再胡说八道了。房价一定要下降，否则，中国经济无救。
fake rubbish....:)fake rubbish = not true rubbish = you agree with teddybear. :D
fake rubbish....:)Ah boy, quickly go and see doctor lah, throw lot of rubbish here, kena humtam left and right, front and back, you still can take it? ....kekekeke...
fake rubbish = not true rubbish = you agree with teddybear. :D
Can mean "worst than rubbish", too
How to compare like that? Last time the policeman wear shorts! Now? :p
Last time $1600 psf! Now? :ashamed1:
The Light @Cairnhill is always cheaper than surrounding projects, CHEAP for a reason? :rolleyes:
Light@Cairnhill is rubbish?
Last time you mentioned that you bought something in 2009 in D9, 1400sqft at 1600psf, right? Is it same kind of rubbish as Light@Cairnhill?
Do you mind just naming a few developments that are "investment grade" based on your standard?
fake rubbish = not true rubbish = you agree with teddybear. :D
since you like it so much, will call him 'fake rubbish' lo....:)
Cassandra
In Greek mythology, Cassandra (Greek Κασσάνδρα, also Κασάνδρα, Κεσάνδρα, Κατάνδρα,[1] also known as Alexandra[2]) was the daughter of King Priam and Queen Hecuba of Troy. Her beauty caused Apollo to grant her the gift of prophecy. In an alternative version, she spent a night at Apollo's temple, at which time the temple snakes licked her ears clean so that she was able to hear the future (this is a recurring theme in Greek mythology, though sometimes it brings an ability to understand the language of animals rather than an ability to know the future).[3] However, when she did not return his love, Apollo placed a curse on her so that no one would ever believe her predictions. She is a figure both of the epic tradition and of tragedy, where her combination of deep understanding and powerlessness exemplify the ironic condition of mankind.
History
Cassandra was the daughter of King Priam and Queen Hecuba and the twin sister of Helenus. She was said to have had dark brown hair kept in curls, dark brown eyes, and fair skin and she was very beautiful, intelligent, charming, desirable, elegant, friendly, and gentle, but she was considered to be insane. Cassandra was described as the "second most beautiful woman in the world." Her beauty was even compared to that of Aphrodite and Helen.
Apollo's cursed gift to Cassandra became a source of endless pain and frustration to her. In some versions of the myth, this is symbolized by the god spitting into her mouth; in other Greek versions, this act was sufficient to remove the gift so recently given by Apollo, but Cassandra's case varies. From Aeschylus' Agamemnon, it appears that she has made a promise to Apollo to become his consort, but broke it, thus incurring his wrath: though she has retained the power of foresight, no one will believe her predictions.
While Cassandra foresaw the destruction of Troy (she warned the Trojans about the Trojan Horse, the death of Agamemnon, and her own demise), she was unable to do anything to forestall these tragedies since no one believed her. Coroebus and Othronus came to the aid of Troy out of love for Cassandra. Cassandra was also the first to see the body of her brother Hector being brought back to the city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra
Spain bond yield above 7% today...another 1 up lorry...in this way, very soon, France will be gone case.....in accelerating speed now...
Italy new PM talked tons of nonsense today....the longer they hang on, the worse situation will be later....just admit bankrupt, no need to burn & waste more....never say die but fight gone case battle is COWARD.....
FED said no Euro zone bailout by FED...let them die...Germany dis-allow to print Euro, let see how soon 1st one to bankrupt....
Top 5 china developers, Vanke, Poh Li....avarge shares price down 10% in 1st half of this month....
Vanke drops price in almost all their projects in china now....
OWS will eventually make it big 1 day....this is a meaningful event, you will know it in few yrs down the road....nobody want it, but no choice, that is the world today...greedy & evil ruled, all debt will have to pay back, whatever will be will be, from here.....time will tell....
It may not hit spore, but the impact will sure affect & influence Spore....2016 will be very interesting....
‘We’re going to burn New York City to the ground’: ‘Tens of thousands’ to shut down Wall Street tomorrow as Occupy protesters plan day of action
November 16th, 2011
Less than forty-eight hours after an early morning police raid on Zuccotti Park, Occupy Wall Street protesters are warning city officials to expect their biggest demonstration yet.
A planned ‘day of action’ on November 17 has prompted the mayor’s office to prepare for ‘tens of thousands’ to descend on Wall Street tomorrow.
so now is NY time Nov 17, 9am....OWS will start their action soon, tenth of thousands will walk to NY Stock Exchange today.....
They have no choice....hope they succeed....will probably see violence due to the crowd & police force....they are doing good thing for the world & human being....god bless them, they will succeed eventually....
Beijing land price after recent bidding already drop back to 2009 price, ie. current land price is equal to 2 yrs ago.....yet many developers still not going to bid for land due to existing land bank, not develop will be fined or confiscated...develop will lose money.....
京多块土地价格跌回2年前 房企拿地金额跌回4年前2011年11月17日 来源：北京商报
土地市场的寒冬已经早住宅市场一步到来。进入10月以来，全国多地 出现住宅用地供应断顿、数块土地底价成交、热点城市地块无人问津的尴尬局面。面对销售不畅，开发商开始紧缩过冬，品牌房企拿地积极性进一步萎靡，万科、雅 居乐、招商、中海、保利、富力、恒大、华润、金地、绿城等十大房企的拿地投入不及2007年，略比经济危机的2008年高出一些，土地市场一片萧条。
北京地价跌回两年前
“3500.5元/平方米，这已经是两年前的地价的水平了。”11月14日走出北京市国土局拍卖大厅的一位开发商向记者表示。
当日，北京房山区长沟镇镇区改造一期B地块居住地块挂牌出让，当地企业北京大河鸣泽投资管理有限公司以2.54亿元底价获得，规划建筑面积72561平 方米，折合楼面价3500.5元/平方米。而与这块地块相近的房山区长沟镇镇区改造一期C地块自9月挂牌以来，至今未收到任何报价。
在此前的11月8日，房山区新城良乡挂牌出让的一宗二类居住、商业金融用地被北京城建房地产开发有限公司和泰富德投资集团有限公司联合体斩获。该地块项 目起始价5.58亿元，历经三次报价，最终成交价5.64亿元，溢价率1.1%。该地块规划建筑的面积132705平方米，折合楼面价4250元/平方 米。
土地市场的遇冷在今年的房山已经不是第一次了。根据链家市场研究部统计，截至11月14日，房山共有6块住宅地块成交，和去年相比减少60%。平均楼面价4329.8元/平方米，较去年下降15%。房山地价已回落至2009年4343.1元/平方米的水平了。
Hangzhou used to be the most expensive property in China few yrs ago due to XiHu, especially those property facing XiHu.....now price also plunging back to 2008 price, that means during Lehman bros bankrupt time price.....
杭州楼市“降”声一片 个盘价格重回2008年
2011-11-17
房价真的是降了！这是目前杭州楼市的一个事实。岸上蓝山团购起价6290元/平方米，闲林房价重回6000元/平方米的消息，很显然只是杭州楼市降价大潮中的缩影。
事实上，在调控大棒下，杭州许多楼盘的价格，都一夜之间回到了“解放前”，特别是一些没有老客户困扰的新开 楼盘，更是肆无忌惮地一降到底，不过与此同时，一些老盘却还是按兵不动，楼盘与楼盘之间的价差急剧拉大。降的不降的，降得多的，降得少的，实在是乱花渐欲 迷人眼，让购房者无所适从。
那么，杭州的房价到底降到了一个什么程度？分析几个价格异动比较明显的区域，价格下调幅度比较大的楼盘，也许可以找到一些答案。
Some people said: Anyhow believe in Chinese are the stupid idiots! Their internet information always are rumors, false information etc. :banghead:
Hangzhou used to be the most expensive property in China few yrs ago due to XiHu, especially those property facing XiHu.....now price also plunging back to 2008 price, that means during Lehman bros bankrupt time price.....
杭州楼市“降”声一片 个盘价格重回2008年
2011-11-17
房价真的是降了！这是目前杭州楼市的一个事实。岸上蓝山团购起价6290元/平方米，闲林房价重回6000元/平方米的消息，很显然只是杭州楼市降价大潮中的缩影。
事实上，在调控大棒下，杭州许多楼盘的价格，都一夜之间回到了“解放前”，特别是一些没有老客户困扰的新开 楼盘，更是肆无忌惮地一降到底，不过与此同时，一些老盘却还是按兵不动，楼盘与楼盘之间的价差急剧拉大。降的不降的，降得多的，降得少的，实在是乱花渐欲 迷人眼，让购房者无所适从。
那么，杭州的房价到底降到了一个什么程度？分析几个价格异动比较明显的区域，价格下调幅度比较大的楼盘，也许可以找到一些答案。
Some people said: Anyhow believe in Chinese are the stupid idiots! Their internet information always are rumors, false information etc. :banghead:
rubbish moron in fear.....:):)
Some people said: Anyhow believe in Chinese are the stupid idiots! Their internet information always are rumors, false information etc. :banghead:
Very true. Chinese internet are full of rumors copied over by each other and over , with each copy added some more. I's a huge misinformation channel. Read it with a real huge pinch of salt. I hate to see someone using this forum doing the same !
I say this one more time, tomorrow official chiina property price data out. Let's see where the massive drop is ( or is there any at all :cool: )
Very true. Chinese internet are full of rumors copied over by each other and over , with each copy added some more. I's a huge misinformation channel. Read it with a real huge pinch of salt. I hate to see someone using this forum doing the same !
I say this one more time, tomorrow official chiina property price data out. Let's see where the massive drop is ( or is there any at all :cool: )
another one.....:)
How to compare like that? Last time the policeman wear shorts! Now? :p
Last time $1600 psf! Now? :ashamed1:
The Light @Cairnhill is always cheaper than surrounding projects, CHEAP for a reason? :rolleyes:
Cairnhill Crest is always the cheapest in the area but not Light@Cairnhill. In fact, L@C's price is quite representable in the area even if you compare to newer developments except Hilltop & Helios. In 2009, L@C should be around or slightly higher than 1600psf
Since you will not disclose the name of the project you bought in 2009, there is no way to compare its current price and your entry price of 1600psf
Anyway, why don't you name a few developments which are good according to your standard?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.