A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[bargain hunter]

not very sure about that. but surely there can't be such an obvious loophole?

So after selling to own subsidiary, I suppose they can they rent out the unit if unsold after TOP. They will need to pay ABSD right?

[bargain hunter]

Mortgagee sales galore at JLL Auction on 30th Oct

#06-01 The Verv @ RV (strangely, no prior caveat lodged)
#04-31 Orchard Scotts 3 bedroom. prior caveat: 18 FEB 2011 7 ANTHONY ROAD #04-31 1,873sq ft 1,935psf $3,623,923

non ccr

#05-03 Taipan Jade 2-level PH. prior caveat: 27 MAY 2011 1 ROSE LANE #05-03 3,175sq ft 567psf $1,800,000
Haig Court #10-06 Blk 152 Haig Road. prior caveat: 152 HAIG ROAD
14 DEC 2004 152 HAIG ROAD #10-06 1,399sq ft 597psf $835,000

[bargain hunter]

1st loss recorded for Nassim Park Residences, small one though.

Sold 9 OCT 2014 15 NASSIM ROAD #03-01 3,175sq ft 3,370psf
Bought 28 APR 2010 3,464psf

i haven't spotted many losses recently, instead, saw some buying of not too small quantum units at market prices.

[Werther]

Hearsay Martin Plc, 1bedded 650 sq ft just sold $1.33m $2k psf, seller sold at loss of $400k 2 years ago including SSD ....

Can check?

[bargain hunter]

oh yah, quite awhile back already, forgot all about it.


Sold11 SEP 2014 2 MARTIN PLACE #13-04 646sq ft 2,059psf
Bought 2 APR 2013 2,335psf

oh well, 646sq ft is a BIG 1 bedder rite? so BIG units does not only mean BIG 3 and 4 bedders.

aiyah just remembered why i didn't post it. bought and sold only after 1 year, 12% SSD + loss? unlikely right? valid case for de-coupling?

Hearsay Martin Plc, 1bedded 650 sq ft just sold $1.33m $2k psf, seller sold at loss of $400k 2 years ago including SSD ....

Can check?

[lifeline]

Hi Bros Bargain Hunter and Werther,

This case is very special.

12% ssd 160k
3% stamp 45k
negative sale 170k
agent 13k
total loss 388k

Understand that seller needed to sell his condo, HDB and current landed to buy a bigger one due to TDSR.

But he found a better bargain that can let him save $1million on landed. Maybe absd remission from $10 million landed property.

So nett still save 600k plus gains from hdb though he "lost" his hdb and condo.

Overall looks good still and next condo will incur 7% absd or even zero if removed. At the same time he sold off his holdings in a challenging market and prevented future potential losses.

Complicated series of smart moves. Congratulations to you if you are one of the forummers here!

Hope you dun mind the sharing cos it really opens up our minds to possibilities. Not all low prices are due to decoupling.


Cheers,
lifeline

oh yah, quite awhile back already, forgot all about it.


Sold11 SEP 2014 2 MARTIN PLACE #13-04 646sq ft 2,059psf
Bought 2 APR 2013 2,335psf

oh well, 646sq ft is a BIG 1 bedder rite? so BIG units does not only mean BIG 3 and 4 bedders.

aiyah just remembered why i didn't post it. bought and sold only after 1 year, 12% SSD + loss? unlikely right? valid case for de-coupling?

[Werther]

Hello lifeline
Mind blowing! Amazing moves... Thanks for the update!

[bargain hunter]

thank you very much for your update, bro. I have heard of people who have done this before. even the rich are doing it, selling off 3 properties (including the one they are staying in), to buy a GCB. Keep our eyes open everyone, the rich are willing to sell at a low price as they are able to get more savings in buying a bigger unit.

Hi Bros Bargain Hunter and Werther,

This case is very special.

12% ssd 160k
3% stamp 45k
negative sale 170k
agent 13k
total loss 388k

Understand that seller needed to sell his condo, HDB and current landed to buy a bigger one due to TDSR.

But he found a better bargain that can let him save $1million on landed. Maybe absd remission from $10 million landed property.

So nett still save 600k plus gains from hdb though he "lost" his hdb and condo.

Overall looks good still and next condo will incur 7% absd or even zero if removed. At the same time he sold off his holdings in a challenging market and prevented future potential losses.

Complicated series of smart moves. Congratulations to you if you are one of the forummers here!

Hope you dun mind the sharing cos it really opens up our minds to possibilities. Not all low prices are due to decoupling.


Cheers,
lifeline

[DC33_2008]

I will do this unless I need the space and status for my business.

thank you very much for your update, bro. I have heard of people who have done this before. even the rich are doing it, selling off 3 properties (including the one they are staying in), to buy a GCB. Keep our eyes open everyone, the rich are willing to sell at a low price as they are able to get more savings in buying a bigger unit.

[teddybear]

GCB is good store of money value over long-term, but not generator of income............
Still, it means rich people believe HDB got no value, 99-years leasehold properties got little value over long-term..................
If people want to be RICH, better think and act like the RICH !!!!!!!!!
Don't put CASH in the bank, your CASH value is depreciating !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will do this unless I need the space and status for my business.

[Werther]

Sorry, I need to hijack this thread for a moment cos more gurus here:

For repricing of housing loan, the processing fee ($800) can be waived or negotiable if done at the same bank..

I noticed my RM and mortgage banker like to push for term loan? Same as housing loan. Any reason?

Thanks.

[teddybear]

I believe you are referring to term loan borrowed against your property as collateral?
Banks like these kind of safe loans, better than lending to corp without collaterals!
Wah, repricing fee so ex?

Sorry, I need to hijack this thread for a moment cos more gurus here:

For repricing of housing loan, the processing fee ($800) can be waived or negotiable if done at the same bank..

I noticed my RM and mortgage banker like to push for term loan? Same as housing loan. Any reason?

Thanks.

[Werther]

Ya, my bank charge $800, maybe I shd go check with another bank..

Teddy, yes, term loan against my property, they said rates same as housing loan, true or not? Any thing I shd be aware of?

[teddybear]

Yes, term loan borrowed against your property is same as housing loan, so rate also same, T&Cs should be same as banks like such loans because they are secured loans.

Ya, my bank charge $800, maybe I shd go check with another bank..

Teddy, yes, term loan against my property, they said rates same as housing loan, true or not? Any thing I shd be aware of?

[dtrax]

100k lost

VIDA 5 Peck Hay Road #07-06 1 49 Strata 1,106,700 22586 2098 23-JUL-2007 Apartment Freehold Uncompleted Sub Sale Private 09 22 228307 Central Region Newton
VIDA 5 Peck Hay Road #07-06 1 49 Strata 1,000,000 20408 1896 16-OCT-2014 Apartment Freehold 2009 Resale Private 09 22 228307 Central Region Newton

[newbie11]

Yes, term loan borrowed against your property is same as housing loan, so rate also same, T&Cs should be same as banks like such loans because they are secured loans.

Term loan repayment cannot use cpf. First charge is also different .

[bargain hunter]

Helios

Sold 10 OCT 2014 17 CAIRNHILL CIRCLE #18-05 1,701sq ft 2,869psf
Bought 21 AUG 2007 3,601psf

[sherlock]

Ouch...+ stamp fee its 1.3m loss
Seller must be desperately in need of $$.

[Werther]

Maybe cut loss as rental cannot cover mortgage...

My agent friends told me many vacant units now in CCR, older development and many movement in tenant changing home, to newer and cheaper ones. Unless property very nicely renovated, otherwise, can prepare to be left on shelf for months.....

Also heard one top foreign bank already sent back all their bankers, portfolio from 150 to less than 10 ... Don't know how true...

This time like 2008 bo?

[k00L]

I just flipped the Expat Living magazine Nov 2014.
In the market update, it says " Preferred residential areas for singles and young professionals remain the Robertson walk area, river valley as far as valley point (still close to the river), and also tiong bahru and the CBD areas near club street"

I continue to see strong rental demand for well located CCR units

[teddybear]

High-end prime condos catering for high-end salary expats should have no problem renting out..........
Only if your private condos is not in CCR and is not in good location and not in good condition, then you would worry....................
Mass market condos better watched out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The mid-end expats have been squeezed by govt's tightening of foreigners policy and few are coming! There will not be many willing to rent around $3-5k condos in OCR!

I just flipped the Expat Living magazine Nov 2014.
In the market update, it says " Preferred residential areas for singles and young professionals remain the Robertson walk area, river valley as far as valley point (still close to the river), and also tiong bahru and the CBD areas near club street"

I continue to see strong rental demand for well located CCR units

[Sandiwara]

High-end prime condos catering for high-end salary expats should have no problem renting out..........
Only if your private condos is not in CCR and is not in good location and not in good condition, then you would worry....................
Mass market condos better watched out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The mid-end expats have been squeezed by govt's tightening of foreigners policy and few are coming! There will not be many willing to rent around $3-5k condos in OCR!

How about 2.5k
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...rent-northoaks

[Sandiwara]

High-end prime condos catering for high-end salary expats should have no problem renting out..........
Only if your private condos is not in CCR and is not in good location and not in good condition, then you would worry....................
Mass market condos better watched out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The mid-end expats have been squeezed by govt's tightening of foreigners policy and few are coming! There will not be many willing to rent around $3-5k condos in OCR!

Even better:
Rent out 2.3k still break event for OCR Condo with size 1238sqf

Property Tax 544
Mortgage Insurance 0
Maintenance 3,008
Mortgage 24,000
Total 27,552
Average Monthly 2,296

[bargain hunter]

i think more of the empty ones are the super super ultra luxury ones. either cannot or don't need to rent out (says teddy). or the very old ones. or the boutique developments (limited facilities).

as KOOL mentioned above, relatively new units with full facilities still ok. also surprising that there is more demand on the river valley side (which traditionally had been seen as the cheaper, less glamorous side) of orchard than the cairnhill side of orchard.

Maybe cut loss as rental cannot cover mortgage...

My agent friends told me many vacant units now in CCR, older development and many movement in tenant changing home, to newer and cheaper ones. Unless property very nicely renovated, otherwise, can prepare to be left on shelf for months.....

Also heard one top foreign bank already sent back all their bankers, portfolio from 150 to less than 10 ... Don't know how true...

This time like 2008 bo?

[bargain hunter]

this week's edge magazine mentioned some potential bulk sales which could take place soon at losses.

21 Anderson - Royal Oak Residence (not a service apartment), 14 year old, could soon be sold at 1850psf. Seller is a fund who had bought at 2338psf in 2010.

The report also mentioned a 20 unit 4 bedroom bulk purchase at Paterson Suites in Dec 2010 for 2700psf. that other fund had sold 2 units in mar/apr 2013 and has received an unsolicited offer for the remaining 18 units. the price is unknown but confirmed to be significantly lower than 2700psf.

[teddybear]

Your figure is not realistic.......
Maintenance of $3008 per year means $250 pm for 3BR size 1238 sqft means soon the condo estate will be in very bad condition..........
Your deposit will never be able to cover the repair required after you take over from the tenant............
If you can rent out at $2.3k pm means your property tax MUST be much more than $544 per year. ($2.3k*12*10% = $2760)...........
Fire insurance you didn't include yet..................

Even better:
Rent out 2.3k still break event for OCR Condo with size 1238sqf

Property Tax 544
Mortgage Insurance 0
Maintenance 3,008
Mortgage 24,000
Total 27,552
Average Monthly 2,296

[teddybear]

Realistic figure for your NorthOak...
Sale price now $890k
Loan say 80% for 30 years at 1.35% means monthly instalment $2596.
Maintenance at least $300 per month
Property tax = $2300*12*10% = $2760 pa
Fire insurance = $200 pa
Mortgage insurance = ???
Total cash outlay a year = $37,712
Average cash outlay per month = $3142.
You still have to factor in agent fee in getting tenant, repair costs for wear and tear etc.......................
So breakeven rent should be around $3500 per month..............

Your figure is not realistic.......
Maintenance of $3008 per year means $250 pm for 3BR size 1238 sqft means soon the condo estate will be in very bad condition..........
Your deposit will never be able to cover the repair required after you take over from the tenant............
If you can rent out at $2.3k pm means your property tax MUST be much more than $544 per year. ($2.3k*12*10% = $2760)...........
Fire insurance you didn't include yet..................

Quote Originally Posted by Sandiwara View Post
Even better:
Rent out 2.3k still break event for OCR Condo with size 1238sqf

Property Tax 544
Mortgage Insurance 0
Maintenance 3,008
Mortgage 24,000
Total 27,552
Average Monthly 2,296

[teddybear]

There are only 2 consequences for super super ultra luxury ones of very big size:
1) Cannot rent out
2) rent out but sure lose money, so why rent out? Might as well don't rent out

The prime CCR condos I refer to are the typical family size 3BR units, in good location, full facilities (good size swimming pool, with tennis court etc), and the condo estate is very well-maintained (and obvious maintenance must be expensive).......... Those are still very much in demand by the high-end expats..............

i think more of the empty ones are the super super ultra luxury ones. either cannot or don't need to rent out (says teddy). or the very old ones. or the boutique developments (limited facilities).

as KOOL mentioned above, relatively new units with full facilities still ok. also surprising that there is more demand on the river valley side (which traditionally had been seen as the cheaper, less glamorous side) of orchard than the cairnhill side of orchard.

[Sandiwara]

Realistic figure for your NorthOak...
Sale price now $890k
Loan say 80% for 30 years at 1.35% means monthly instalment $2596.
Maintenance at least $300 per month
Property tax = $2300*12*10% = $2760 pa
Fire insurance = $200 pa
Mortgage insurance = ???
Total cash outlay a year = $37,712
Average cash outlay per month = $3142.
You still have to factor in agent fee in getting tenant, repair costs for wear and tear etc.......................
So breakeven rent should be around $3500 per month..............




Quote Originally Posted by Sandiwara View Post
Even better:
Rent out 2.3k still break event for OCR Condo with size 1238sqf

Property Tax 544
Mortgage Insurance 0
Maintenance 3,008
Mortgage 24,000
Total 27,552
Average Monthly 2,296

But it already 2.45k as below
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...rent-northoaks

[newbie11]

Count until like that hoq to buy? Mean can only buy every major crisis