Property market sentiments 2011

[hopeful]

Clift is for foreign investors.....not targeting PR:p

my point is, MBT is trying to protect the scheme (PR can buy resale) by saying that PRs are only a small part of the market, so cannot affect market when he jolly well knows that PRs are the supporting force for asset enhancement policies.

Want to do experiment? Lets say western, central, eastern Singapore HDB flats barred for PRs and only northern Singapore HDB resale flats available for PRs.
Which HDB price will be higher?

[devilplate]

Based on your perspective on public housing , we are actually living on social welfare with a 5stars benefits.
Tats the problem wif rising aspirations n expectations....

Everybody wants swiss class standard of living but 3rd world cost of living:D

[devilplate]

my point is, MBT is trying to protect the scheme (PR can buy resale) by saying that PRs are only a small part of the market, so cannot affect market when he jolly well knows that PRs are the supporting force for asset enhancement policies.

Want to do experiment? Lets say western, central, eastern Singapore HDB flats barred for PRs and only northern Singapore HDB resale flats available for PRs.
Which HDB price will be higher?
But its a wrong policy.....it encourage freeloaders instead....tats y new citizens numbers only 90k:doh:

[hopeful]

Fair n square lah

During downturn, buyers aso offer based on the latest n lowest transacted px wat:tongue3:

which I think is rather stupid...

example:
bull cycle rise up slowly over 5 year.
bear cycle drop very fast over 1 year.
If people bother to check volume of transactions, volume is very low during bear markets.
So if you missed that 1 year period, expect higher prices to move up......
and your favorite projects will be more expensive again.

[hopeful]

But its a wrong policy.....it encourage freeloaders instead....tats y new citizens numbers only 90k:doh:

why do you use the term freeloaders? ie PRs can buy HDB resale are freeloaders?

PRs have to bring in money from somewhere (usually from outside singapore) to buy resale. Also dont enjoy subsidy some more.

[Bishan Kid]

my point is, MBT is trying to protect the scheme (PR can buy resale) by saying that PRs are only a small part of the market, so cannot affect market when he jolly well knows that PRs are the supporting force for asset enhancement policies.

Want to do experiment? Lets say western, central, eastern Singapore HDB flats barred for PRs and only northern Singapore HDB resale flats available for PRs.
Which HDB price will be higher?

Economic point of view , it will create artificial imbalance of demand/supply
on one district.
Not a good indicator.

[devilplate]

which I think is rather stupid...

example:
bull cycle rise up slowly over 5 year.
bear cycle drop very fast over 1 year.
If people bother to check volume of transactions, volume is very low during bear markets.
So if you missed that 1 year period, expect higher prices to move up......
and your favorite projects will be more expensive again.
Not true la....i buy until run out of bullet in early 09.....no money to buy my sky11 when a high flr unitnis being offered cheaply to me...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Den LL go buy 8woodleigh n later waterbank:doh: :doh: :doh:

[devilplate]

why do you use the term freeloaders? ie PRs can buy HDB resale are freeloaders?

PRs have to bring in money from somewhere (usually from outside singapore) to buy resale. Also dont enjoy subsidy some more.

Bcoz its a subsidized flat afterall even without grant....how much is the grant anyway? 40k only....does it make a big diff between citizen and a PR?....how to find a condonlike a 3rm resale flat at 300k tat fetch 1.8-2k a mth rental?

[hopeful]

Economic point of view , it will create artificial imbalance of demand/supply
on one district.
Not a good indicator.

well, my impression is that northern private property are usually the cheapest, as compared the other regions.
I think the same should hold true for northern HDB prices also.

So if PRs can only buy northern HDB and if they are an insignificant force, northern HDB flats would still be the lowest as compared to other regions where PRs cannot buy.

[devilplate]

Bcoz its a subsidized flat afterall even without grant....how much is the grant anyway? 40k only....does it make a big diff between citizen and a PR?....how to find a condonlike a 3rm resale flat at 300k tat fetch 1.8-2k a mth rental?
Tats y most PR will not convert.....for wat? For tat pathetic 40k grant rebate?

The benefits between a PR n a citizen is way too minimal to entice them to convert:doh:

[devilplate]

well, my impression is that northern private property are usually the cheapest, as compared the other regions.
I think the same should hold true for northern HDB prices also.

So if PRs can only buy northern HDB and if they are an insignificant force, northern HDB flats would still be the lowest as compared to other regions where PRs cannot buy.
Asset enhancement is useless if u cant retain the money from flowing out

[hopeful]

Bcoz its a subsidized flat afterall even without grant....how much is the grant anyway? 40k only....does it make a big diff between citizen and a PR?....how to find a condonlike a 3rm resale flat at 300k tat fetch 1.8-2k a mth rental?

I think the stupid ones are Singaporeans buying resale.
They should buy new flats instead, can enjoy a few hundred thousand profits.
PRs cannot buy new flats right?

[devilplate]

I think the stupid ones are Singaporeans buying resale.
They should buy new flats instead, can enjoy a few hundred thousand profits.
PRs cannot buy new flats right?
Yes...but bto flats only avail in places like punggol, woodlands....

Those who bot resale flats in punggol r the real silliporeans....lol

[hopeful]

Asset enhancement is useless if u cant retain the money from flowing out
Let think this one through
Scenario A
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to Citizen Y for 400k and emigrate away. so 400k out of Singapore.


Scenario B
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to PR B for 400k and emigrate away. net outflow is 400k-300k=100k only. net 200K still remain in Singapore.

so singapore citizens are loyal, can sell to PR but will not buy from PR. ;)

[devilplate]

Let think this one through
Scenario A
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to Citizen Y for 400k and emigrate away. so 400k out of Singapore.


Scenario B
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to PR B for 400k and emigrate away. net outflow is 400k-300k=100k only. net 200K still remain in Singapore.

so singapore citizens are loyal, can sell to PR but will not buy from PR. ;)

Totally cool!

So mbt can simply impose a rule tat PR can only sell to PR for hdb!

Best policy:cheers6:

[wesing]

If we allows PR to buy HDB, we should set certain rules like imposing a high SSD if they sell their HDBs without buying another HDB or pte property in SG. This is to prevent them from selling their HDBs and balek kampung with the profits :simmering:

[proud owner]

If we allows PR to buy HDB, we should set certain rules like imposing a high SSD if they sell their HDBs without buying another HDB or pte property in SG. This is to prevent them from selling their HDBs and balek kampung with the profits :simmering:

according to my bro in law...a licensed realtor...he said a lot of pr who bgt hdb..all waiting o take profit...

also when one buys a resale, theres no way to know if the owner is sporean or pr...until almost deal done

so no way to ensure we only buy from sporeans in order to keep forign money

[hopeful]

Totally cool!

So mbt can simply impose a rule tat PR can only sell to PR for hdb!

Best policy:cheers6:

Unfortunately, if do that, does PR want to enter in the first place?
Best but hard way is to built Singapore citizens nationalism, like Korea and Japan. Well, market is open to foreign products, but the citizens still buy local brands. You dont see a korean use motorola hp, only LG or Samsung.
or Japan back in the 1970s, citizens dont tour overseas because they want to preserve their forex.
so no need for MBT to make ruling, singaporeans themselves dont want to buy from PRs because of nationalism.

[hopeful]

according to my bro in law...a licensed realtor...he said a lot of pr who bgt hdb..all waiting o take profit...

also when one buys a resale, theres no way to know if the owner is sporean or pr...until almost deal done

so no way to ensure we only buy from sporeans in order to keep forign money

cannot check INLIS? or HDB equivalent?
If they can check racial proportions, think they can jolly well check foreigner or SC.

[devilplate]

Unfortunately, if do that, does PR want to enter in the first place?
Best but hard way is to built Singapore citizens nationalism, like Korea and Japan. Well, market is open to foreign products, but the citizens still buy local brands. You dont see a korean use motorola hp, only LG or Samsung.
or Japan back in the 1970s, citizens dont tour overseas because they want to preserve their forex.
so no need for MBT to make ruling, singaporeans themselves dont want to buy from PRs because of nationalism.
There is vy little diff between a PR n a citizen....so how does this nationalism comes about?:rolleyes:

Jus happen to cross my mind tat aussie pracise the reverse way.....foreigners can only sell to locals....one less incentive for us to invest in aussie....

[ysyap]

Scenario B
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to PR B for 400k and emigrate away. net outflow is 400k-300k=100k only. net 200K still remain in Singapore.

so singapore citizens are loyal, can sell to PR but will not buy from PR. ;)PR A sell to PR B for 400k, it is take $400k out of country but also put in $400k back. So no effect really. It is the earlier contribution when PR A buy from citizen X. In actual fact, it is still $300k net remain in Singapore. :D

[linchong84]

Yes...but bto flats only avail in places like punggol, woodlands....

Those who bot resale flats in punggol r the real silliporeans....lol


90% of HDB buyers buy the unit with no intention of flipping and earning from it ma.. They just want to stay there, so why not.. Not as if leaving it empty.. Some people burst 8k ceiling cant buy BTO ma.. Some people don't want to wait for 5 years for BTO to build finish.. Some people cant afford 700-800k resale in amk, bishan.. So you cant say they are silly lah.. Majority are not i guess..

[proud owner]

cannot check INLIS? or HDB equivalent?
If they can check racial proportions, think they can jolly well check foreigner or SC.

i am trying to illustrate one of the scenario
when PR buys from local .... theres a nett inflow of money

but
when PR sells ... and leave the country ...then theres a outflow

to prevent that ..one way to not to buy from PR ..

as a buyer ... one wouldnt be asking "is the owner PR? " right ?
agent may not tell also ...

[devilplate]

90% of HDB buyers buy the unit with no intention of flipping and earning from it ma.. They just want to stay there, so why not.. Not as if leaving it empty.. Some people burst 8k ceiling cant buy BTO ma.. Some people don't want to wait for 5 years for BTO to build finish.. Some people cant afford 700-800k resale in amk, bishan.. So you cant say they are silly lah.. Majority are not i guess..
Er...can buy simei, tamp or pasir ris for eg whr there is little or no bto avail mah....hehe

Jus me la....i die die wun touch resale flats tat bto is readily avail:D
Buy mass market condo aso better dun buy those whr EC is readily avail....:2cents:

[devilplate]

i am trying to illustrate one of the scenario
when PR buys from local .... theres a nett inflow of money

but
when PR sells ... and leave the country ...then theres a outflow

to prevent that ..one way to not to buy from PR ..

as a buyer ... one wouldnt be asking "is the owner PR? " right ?
agent may not tell also ...
Can write in to suggest? Pr only sell to pr....like those ethnic group restrictions...if u own a hdb in little india...u wud love to sell it to indians....:D

[hopeful]

PR A sell to PR B for 400k, it is take $400k out of country but also put in $400k back. So no effect really. It is the earlier contribution when PR A buy from citizen X. In actual fact, it is still $300k net remain in Singapore. :D

yup, 300k net still remains in Singapore :)

[fclim]

Let think this one through
Scenario A
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to Citizen Y for 400k and emigrate away. so 400k out of Singapore.


Scenario B
2011 PR A buy from Citizen X for 300k. so bring 300k to Singapore.
2013 PR A sell to PR B for 400k and emigrate away. net outflow is 400k-300k=100k only. net 200K still remain in Singapore.

so singapore citizens are loyal, can sell to PR but will not buy from PR. ;)

The govt has somewhat plugged this outflow in March 2010 with the SPR quota. Currently, it is 8% for block and 5% for neighbourhood. Ultimately, it sets a limit on how many HDB flats can be sold to non-malaysian PRs. In other words, only 5% of all HDB flats can be sold to such PRs. This pushes the PRs to buy mass market condos instead, which explains the price escalation for mass market condos.

From HDB:

SPR Quota
For resale applications received on or after 5 March 2010, Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR) families buying a resale flat will have to meet the SPR quota, in addition to the Ethnic Integration Policy (EIP). The SPR quota ensures that SPR families can integrate into the local community for social cohesion and to prevent enclaves forming in the public housing estates. The quota will only apply on non-Malaysian SPRs. Malaysians are excluded because of our close historical and cultural links.


Citizenship
Maximum proportion for Non-Malaysian SPR Households
Neighbourhood
Block
Citizens
Not Applicable
Not Applicable
Malaysian SPRs
Non-Malaysian SPRs
5%
8%

[ysyap]

Can write in to suggest? Pr only sell to pr....like those ethnic group restrictions...if u own a hdb in little india...u wud love to sell it to indians....:DCan't help but agree! In this case, can solve the problem that PR may not be rich enough for private ppty so no choice have to buy HDB and can also solve the influx of foreigners to compete with citizens on HDB ownership. It is restricted by govt in the interest of citizens. But does that mean locals can sell to PR but not the other way round? Then in order to sustain this model, we must always bring in more PRs (coz PR selling to PR cannot be sustainable if there's no new PRs coming in) and in order to bring in more PRs, more locals have to sell to them too so in short HDB has to build a lot more to satisfy this model... Hmmm... then back to square one where we complain too much PRs into our land... :doh:

[SpinCity]

why do you use the term freeloaders? ie PRs can buy HDB resale are freeloaders?

PRs have to bring in money from somewhere (usually from outside singapore) to buy resale. Also dont enjoy subsidy some more..

HDB itself is subsidized, even without government grant
PR can park their money in other investment, stocks, private housing, or to start a business

[linchong84]

Can't help but agree! In this case, can solve the problem that PR may not be rich enough for private ppty so no choice have to buy HDB and can also solve the influx of foreigners to compete with citizens on HDB ownership. It is restricted by govt in the interest of citizens. But does that mean locals can sell to PR but not the other way round? Then in order to sustain this model, we must always bring in more PRs (coz PR selling to PR cannot be sustainable if there's no new PRs coming in) and in order to bring in more PRs, more locals have to sell to them too so in short HDB has to build a lot more to satisfy this model... Hmmm... then back to square one where we complain too much PRs into our land... :doh:


Won't work.. The better PRs will tell the govt go fly kite and go get citizenship in other countries or balek kampong.. It's difficult lah, on one hand gotta make it attractive for people to come here, on another hand gotta please the locals.. Tough job..

[SpinCity]

Unfortunately, if do that, does PR want to enter in the first place?
Best but hard way is to built Singapore citizens nationalism, like Korea and Japan. Well, market is open to foreign products, but the citizens still buy local brands. You dont see a korean use motorola hp, only LG or Samsung.
or Japan back in the 1970s, citizens dont tour overseas because they want to preserve their forex.
so no need for MBT to make ruling, singaporeans themselves dont want to buy from PRs because of nationalism.

FTs do not come here to buy HDB
HDB is housing policy, semi-social welfare in the case of SG, not immigration policy.
If PRs are here to benefit from HDB, they shall not be granted PR status in the first place
SG doesn't have the market depth of JP and Korea to support meaningful local brands. If local brands only depend on SG citizens, they will all head for the only destination which we all know what it is
Without FT, will Singapore be where it is today?

[proud owner]

FTs do not come here to buy HDB
HDB is housing policy, semi-social welfare in the case of SG, not immigration policy.
If PRs are here to benefit from HDB, they shall not be granted PR status in the first place
SG doesn't have the market depth of JP and Korea to support meaningful local brands. If local brands only depend on SG citizens, they will all head for the only destination which we all know what it is
Without FT, will Singapore be where it is today?

you are generalising

FT's ..in its real meaning are NOT construction workers

during this discussion i see that we group all blue and white collar foreign workers as FT's



we definitely need low end, cheaper labor from foreign countries cos sporeans are not willing to do those jobs ...

so YES they are impt

BUT FTs ..not really there are many locals who can do the job better ... just that we dont have american or british or aussie slangs ...

if i come back to spore and speak like american ... i tell you ..many companies will treat me like FTs...

and i can do the same, if not better than them

[teddybear]

I think you are wrong. It has nothing with how you speak. The main reason is that you are firstly not "connected", and secondly your colour is still "yellow" with black hairs & black iris. :p You come back scarely those people question why you come back after so long overseas (like CSM), say you NOT "connected" to the ground, to Singaporeans, etc? :D


you are generalising

FT's ..in its real meaning are NOT construction workers

during this discussion i see that we group all blue and white collar foreign workers as FT's



we definitely need low end, cheaper labor from foreign countries cos sporeans are not willing to do those jobs ...

so YES they are impt

BUT FTs ..not really there are many locals who can do the job better ... just that we dont have american or british or aussie slangs ...

if i come back to spore and speak like american ... i tell you ..many companies will treat me like FTs...

and i can do the same, if not better than them

[proud owner]

I think you are wrong. It has nothing with how you speak. The main reason is that you are firstly not "connected", and secondly your colour is still "yellow" with black hairs & black iris. :p You come back scarely those people question why you come back after so long overseas (like CSM), say you NOT "connected" to the ground, to Singaporeans, etc? :D

in my company ...there are many sporeans who have spent many years oversea and speak with a foreign accent .... and they are holding very high posts ...

i believe mine is not a typical company

[SpinCity]

you are generalising

FT's ..in its real meaning are NOT construction workers

during this discussion i see that we group all blue and white collar foreign workers as FT's



we definitely need low end, cheaper labor from foreign countries cos sporeans are not willing to do those jobs ...

so YES they are impt

BUT FTs ..not really there are many locals who can do the job better ... just that we dont have american or british or aussie slangs ...

if i come back to spore and speak like american ... i tell you ..many companies will treat me like FTs...

and i can do the same, if not better than them

Seems like you don't see the needs for FT and SG will be as prosperous as it is today
Without the current immigration policy, do you think multinationals would want to headquarter in SG? SG might still be a utopia itself, but definitely a different kind. We just have understand that it is an country of 700km2 in size with a citizen population of 3.2m
Too bad to hear that you are not treated as what you deserved
Sorry for off from the topic, we shall talk about housing policy here

[proper-t]

Wah...i go out for lunch and so much discussion.

Here's a little story for afternoon amusement.....this is a pure work of fiction and any resemblance to any person or incident is complete coincidence.

1. National Beach Volleyball team comprising imported citizens wins Olympic medals ! The success story causes several light bulbs to go on...Hey! If we can excel in sport through imported citizens, think what it would do for our economy if we can apply it throughout.

2. A massive PR and recruitment effort was launched to try to attract and entice REAL foreign talent to come to their shores and take up citizenship.

However, one smart alec suddenly spoke out...Dude, what about the freeloaders? What's to stop them from packing up and going back to their hometown after we have thrown all the goodies at them. Another smart alec had a brainwave...Make them renounce their citizenship. They then have nowhere to turn and will always be dependent on us.

3. Great as the plan was, it kinda backfired as very few REAL talents who are highly sought after by all will want to uproot and RENOUNCE their citizenship. Nett result : Dude...only 90K new citizen...you fail !!!!

4. Despondent, the brainiacs go back and try to get inspiration from their french cooking classes. Looking at all the students slaving away washing snails, one of the braniacs has another stroke of inspiration.

Dude, all these foreign talent have to start from somehwere right. Let's goto all the top foreign universities and throw everything we have at the best and brightest students. Airfare and accomdation, even their mamas are welcomed here. By making them come here at a tender age, they will assimilate into society. By the time they graduate and come of legal age, we will offer them jobs and public housing and since they have nothing to compare, they will gladly accept our offer of citizenship.

The rest of snail washers were stunned and immediately forgot to cook their escargot. Brilliant, lets goto the printers and tell them to print huge amounts of student passes.

Excited, they update their boss. Don't worry. We may not make the quota this round but in 2 to 3 years, these students are all due to graduate and have the right to decide their citizenship. Out of all these pools, you can be sure that a few genuises will emerge.

Beaming, the boss sez....Great job guys!. Next year, I will send you to the Kate spade academy to learn fashion and handbag design.

[teddybear]

If it is as what you said, you should come back with foreign accent. Good for you. Also please help your fellow singaporeans by giving them priority in getting jobs over foreigners. :cheers1:


in my company ...there are many sporeans who have spent many years oversea and speak with a foreign accent .... and they are holding very high posts ...

i believe mine is not a typical company

[teddybear]

And as time goes by, the people paying for all these start to think up even better idea: Heh, we can have so many FTs, why not we employ Bill Clinton, Tony Blair + Alan Greenspan - 3 FTs for the pay of just 1 Minister! With them will bring more such FTs and we will save a lot of money with FT cabinet! And furthermore, they have no right to make important decisions as the most important decisions are empowered by our people to the MPs who will really vote based on their conscience, and their constituency's people wishes (don't need to toe party lines!). Hooray! (Caveat Emptor: Above just a story for your leisure consumption only.) :p


Wah...i go out for lunch and so much discussion.

Here's a little story for afternoon amusement.....this is a pure work of fiction and any resemblance to any person or incident is complete coincidence.

1. National Beach Volleyball team comprising imported citizens wins Olympic medals ! The success story causes several light bulbs to go on...Hey! If we can excel in sport through imported citizens, think what it would do for our economy if we can apply it throughout.

2. A massive PR and recruitment effort was launched to try to attract and entice REAL foreign talent to come to their shores and take up citizenship.

However, one smart alec suddenly spoke out...Dude, what about the freeloaders? What's to stop them from packing up and going back to their hometown after we have thrown all the goodies at them. Another smart alec had a brainwave...Make them renounce their citizenship. They then have nowhere to turn and will always be dependent on us.

3. Great as the plan was, it kinda backfired as very few REAL talents who are highly sought after by all will want to uproot and RENOUNCE their citizenship. Nett result : Dude...only 90K new citizen...you fail !!!!

4. Despondent, the brainiacs go back and try to get inspiration from their french cooking classes. Looking at all the students slaving away washing snails, one of the braniacs has another stroke of inspiration.

Dude, all these foreign talent have to start from somehwere right. Let's goto all the top foreign universities and throw everything we have at the best and brightest students. Airfare and accomdation, even their mamas are welcomed here. By making them come here at a tender age, they will assimilate into society. By the time they graduate and come of legal age, we will offer them jobs and public housing and since they have nothing to compare, they will gladly accept our offer of citizenship.

The rest of snail washers were stunned and immediately forgot to cook their escargot. Brilliant, lets goto the printers and tell them to print huge amounts of student passes.

Excited, they update their boss. Don't worry. We may not make the quota this round but in 2 to 3 years, these students are all due to graduate and have the right to decide their citizenship. Out of all these pools, you can be sure that a few genuises will emerge.

Beaming, the boss sez....Great job guys!. Next year, I will send you to the Kate spade academy to learn fashion and handbag design.

[proud owner]

Seems like you don't see the needs for FT and SG will be as prosperous as it is today
Without the current immigration policy, do you think multinationals would want to headquarter in SG? SG might still be a utopia itself, but definitely a different kind. We just have understand that it is an country of 700km2 in size with a citizen population of 3.2m
Too bad to hear that you are not treated as what you deserved
Sorry for off from the topic, we shall talk about housing policy here


you are getting me wrong

i am being treated very well in my company

i am not complaining

all i am saying is that we dont really need to many high positioned FT ..

we do need alot of blue collar FT s

[proud owner]

If it is as what you said, you should come back with foreign accent. Good for you. Also please help your fellow singaporeans by giving them priority in getting jobs over foreigners. :cheers1:


i speak singlish with fellow sporean frnds and colleagues

but strangely with 'ang moh ghosts' ... the accent just come naturally without i realising

[CCR]

I think if we want the right kind of foreigners to come, we only need the following... Don't allow PR to buy 3 and 4 room flats, only 5 room flats and condo. So only those with higher pay can come to singapore... The foreigner workers and maids don't buy hdb, they either stay with employers on in dormitories... If PR lose their job for more than two years remove their status... Since the gahmen so strict with singaporeans, they must also make the PR work their ass off... Only those with more than 2m in the bank or properties can go jobless :D

[hopeful]

I think if we want the right kind of foreigners to come, we only need the following... Don't allow PR to buy 3 and 4 room flats, only 5 room flats and condo. So only those with higher pay can come to singapore... The foreigner workers and maids don't buy hdb, they either stay with employers on in dormitories... If PR lose their job for more than two years remove their status... Since the gahmen so strict with singaporeans, they must also make the PR work their ass off... Only those with more than 2m in the bank or properties can go jobless :D

what do you think will happen if we do that? Any pros and cons to your proposal?

[ysyap]

I think if we want the right kind of foreigners to come, we only need the following... Don't allow PR to buy 3 and 4 room flats, only 5 room flats and condo. So only those with higher pay can come to singapore... The foreigner workers and maids don't buy hdb, they either stay with employers on in dormitories... If PR lose their job for more than two years remove their status... Since the gahmen so strict with singaporeans, they must also make the PR work their ass off... Only those with more than 2m in the bank or properties can go jobless :DGovy need to attract FW to our shores so need to treat them like kings lor. Singaporeans already here so no need to do any more gimmicky stuff... what do u think?

[hyenergix]

I think if we want the right kind of foreigners to come, we only need the following... Don't allow PR to buy 3 and 4 room flats, only 5 room flats and condo. So only those with higher pay can come to singapore... The foreigner workers and maids don't buy hdb, they either stay with employers on in dormitories... If PR lose their job for more than two years remove their status... Since the gahmen so strict with singaporeans, they must also make the PR work their ass off... Only those with more than 2m in the bank or properties can go jobless :D

I feel that foreigners should still be allowed to buy HDBs (only PRs) or condos, but they have to pay an extra premium e.g. 10% of their purchase price. The extra premium will then go into funding the charities or other social services. The overseas demand will also make your property investment more liquid.

[CCR]

what do you think will happen if we do that? Any pros and cons to your proposal?

We will get on high income and low income foreigners, so middle income will go to singaporeans job... Plus singaporeans will also get high income job as well coz most PR and foreigners come with expats package so we will definitely be more competitive somno néed to worry, so net net, Singapore gain in letting quality FT and the real cheap labour to do jobs that Singaporean doesn't want to do.... And three and four room hdb prices will be sat le while five rooms flats got value and condo prices will also appreciate

[kingkong1984]

I feel that foreigners should still be allowed to buy HDBs (only PRs) or condos, but they have to pay an extra premium e.g. 10% of their purchase price. The extra premium will then go into funding the charities or other social services. The overseas demand will also make your property investment more liquid.
Good idea. Maybe do it when they sell only. Permanent SSD of 20 percent. Hahaha

[ysyap]

Good idea. Maybe do it when they sell only. Permanent SSD of 20 percent. Hahaha20% SSD? :scared-1:

[ronyyk76]

We will get on high income and low income foreigners, so middle income will go to singaporeans job... Plus singaporeans will also get high income job as well coz most PR and foreigners come with expats package so we will definitely be more competitive somno néed to worry, so net net, Singapore gain in letting quality FT and the real cheap labour to do jobs that Singaporean doesn't want to do.... And three and four room hdb prices will be sat le while five rooms flats got value and condo prices will also appreciate

"Singapore gain in letting quality FT and the real cheap labour to do jobs that Singaporean doesn't want to do"

To make that work, first you need to make sure that those low skill plus low income singaporean old folks (maybe 100 thousands of the population) to commit suicide, chase out of singapore, or work untill they have to dig their own grave.

Then, those middle and high income singaporean will continue to fight in singapore and get richer with foreigner. Cheers!

Beside money, do we need a heart?:2cents:

[ysyap]

There are currently I guess 2 low income jobs that Singaporeans don't want to do. Correct me if I'm wrong but they are 1. Construction workers (certainly not for the older folks and young Singaporeans are not forthcoming in taking up these jobs except being foreman and site leaders) and 2. Fulltime domestic helpers (Singaporeans are willing to be full time baby sitters where they can still be with their families and part time domestic helpers where they can go home after a day's work). Therefore I guess these 2 groups of job requires FW.

[bargain hunter]

1901 units sold in apr! 1788 excluding EC = 113 EC sold.

[bargain hunter]

8 Courtyards 340units 789psf (MEDIAN)
Hedges Park 224units 889psf
Centra Heights 90units 1,624psf
H2O 64units 972psf
Skysuites @ Anson 50units 2,198psf
The Boutiq 50units 2,324psf
Water Edge 42units 1,339psf
Minton 41units 878psf
10 Shelford 38units 1,831psf
38 isuites 37units 1,456psf
Prive (EC) 34units 682psf
Canopy (EC) 34units 659psf
Skysuites 17 33units 1,474psf
Austville (EC) 31units 709psf
NV 28units 856psf
Devonshire Resi 27units 2,519psf
D'Leedon 26units 1,568psf
Lakeshore 25units 1,049psf
Waterview 25units 877psf
Laverne's Loft 24units 1,301psf
Waterfront Gold 24units 914psf
Okio 22units 1,452psf
Questa @ Dunman 21units 1,354psf
Cascadia 21units 1,509psf
Flamingo Valley 20units 1,246psf
Canberra Resi 19units 804psf
Ascentia Sky 18units 1,422psf
Harbour Suites 18units 1,690psf
Waterfront Isle 16units 1,128psf
Royce Resi 15units 1,140psf

[bargain hunter]

existing projects with unsold units (both released and not released)
D'Leedon 1,352
Minton 569
Twin Peaks 424
Interlace 378
Reflections 338
Austville (EC) 321
8 Courtyards 314
Hedges Park 277
Flamingo Valley 255
Skysuites @ Anson 236
H2O 211
My Manhattan 211
Hilltops 210
Cityscape 207
Residences @ W 207
Vacanza 195
Waterview 181
Centro 143
Concourse Skyline 135
Waterfront Isle 134
Lanai 126
Seascape 113
Nin Resi 102

launching in may or coming soon:
Foresque 496
Terrasse 414
(Unnamed) Miltona Close 410
Belysa (EC) 315
Foresta 141

[avo7007]

1901 units sold in apr! 1788 excluding EC = 113 EC sold.

Wow that's a huge surge from March figure of 1386 units (w/o EC). A whooping 29% surge.:scared-4: Huat ah! At least until CM5.:)

[ay123]

heard from a small developer, his view is price will moderate a bit but it will go north again. he is very positive for at least next 3 years.

[DC33_2008]

Really look forward to the annoucement of the cabinet and action will begin.
heard from a small developer, his view is price will moderate a bit but it will go north again. he is very positive for at least next 3 years.

[teddybear]

Is increased sales of private properties a problem? When there are more demand, there are more sales. Furthermore price increase now quite moderate, no big jump. Only thing need to lock-down is the size of MMs, 4 years SSD for new launch start from TOP etc. Private properties only account for 15% of total units & hence people.

The cabinet should instead address the concern of 85% of people living & intending to buy or upgrade HDB flats. That is their priority! Furthermore, if HDB prices have been brought into control, private property prices will also become in control since upgraders to private will reduce since gap between private and HDB becomes bigger and demand for private become less. They should know what their priorities are. :p


Really look forward to the annoucement of the cabinet and action will begin.

[ysyap]

Is increased sales of private properties a problem? When there are more demand, there are more sales. Furthermore price increase now quite moderate, no big jump. Only thing need to lock-down is the size of MMs, 4 years SSD for new launch start from TOP etc. Private properties only account for 15% of total units & hence people.

The cabinet should instead address the concern of 85% of people living & intending to buy or upgrade HDB flats. That is their priority! Furthermore, if HDB prices have been brought into control, private property prices will also become in control since upgraders to private will reduce since gap between private and HDB becomes bigger and demand for private become less. They should know what their priorities are. :pWe cannot use HDB upgraders to control pte ppty prices... HDB prices usually lags pte ppty prices...:D

[ysyap]

Wow that's a huge surge from March figure of 1386 units (w/o EC). A whooping 29% surge.:scared-4: Huat ah! At least until CM5.:)Singaporeans are hiding their wealth... after CM4 still can buy buy buy!!! How many more CMs to curb successfully? :D

[ay123]

Singaporeans are hiding their wealth... after CM4 still can buy buy buy!!! How many more CMs to curb successfully? :D
it mean the CMs are not working. is targeting at the wrong crowd. if there is CM again, tat short ass better use his brain n come up with something good or he sure kana big "F".

[bfam]

Singaporeans are hiding their wealth... after CM4 still can buy buy buy!!! How many more CMs to curb successfully? :D

Do we know the ratio of buyers Singaporeans vs foreigners? If foreigners - how abt curb by limiting the number of properties they can own at anytime. If they hv deep pockets, dont think the SSD is going to work.

But then again, on limiting the number of ppties they can hold - maybe make them declare # of ppties owned and the entire family tree so cannot register under father, mother, sons, daughters, mistresses' names. :D :tongue3:

[ysyap]

Do we know the ratio of buyers Singaporeans vs foreigners? If foreigners - how abt curb by limiting the number of properties they can own at anytime. If they hv deep pockets, dont think the SSD is going to work.

But then again, on limiting the number of ppties they can hold - maybe make them declare # of ppties owned and the entire family tree so cannot register under father, mother, sons, daughters, mistresses' names. :D :tongue3:Not going to work lah... govt will not close this foreign tap... slap themselves meh??? Already WP slapping them, they won't slap themselves again.

More prudent to control the developers from selling high... Govt sell land high high to developers and earn then curb developers to sell high high... :D Super gan!!!

[bargain hunter]

i wonder if we will blast past 2000 units in may. i have not been keeping track of sales in may. :D

[devilplate]

i wonder if we will blast past 2000 units in may. i have not been keeping track of sales in may. :D
May sales so far like weak weak....

Dun hf any big project selling well rite?

[ysyap]

May sales so far like weak weak....

Dun hf any big project selling well rite?Most buyers are voters so last week all concentrate on GE. Any idea on the showrooms last weekend?

[devilplate]

Most buyers are voters so last week all concentrate on GE. Any idea on the showrooms last weekend?
Forestkill shd b weak....lets see terasse

[ysyap]

Forestkill shd b weak....lets see terasseTerasse looks promising but I just cannot understand the sales volume... I'll never be convinced to get a 99LH there... Hmmm... whatever so long as vol up then good for sellers' market... :D

[gn108]

May seems weaker than Apr...but sales at Foresta (old Pender Ct) seems very healthy. If the 'reserved' units come in - I reckon 80% sold in 1 week.

LTV and SSD also people not scared ...what's left?

[ysyap]

May seems weaker than Apr...but sales at Foresta (old Pender Ct) seems very healthy. If the 'reserved' units come in - I reckon 80% sold in 1 week.

LTV and SSD also people not scared ...what's left?Slice the developers and foreign ownership... don't restrict foreigners from buying many many units here but impose 20% tax for every property purchased... :D That will make them stop to think more...

[bargain hunter]

that's impressive! so little news on that. 80% of 141 is more than 110 units sold.


May seems weaker than Apr...but sales at Foresta (old Pender Ct) seems very healthy. If the 'reserved' units come in - I reckon 80% sold in 1 week.

LTV and SSD also people not scared ...what's left?

[gn108]

Good point...not sure if they released all the units. But I reckon it sld be all. Left are the PH and some poorer facing units...
Ground flr units have 4.2m ceiling ht, but rest is so-so..


that's impressive! so little news on that. 80% of 141 is more than 110 units sold.

[sh]

Singaporeans are hiding their wealth... after CM4 still can buy buy buy!!! How many more CMs to curb successfully? :D

will be insteresting to see how many of the buyers do not have an existing loan and can still go for 80% loan. If that's the majority... then we'll know who CM5 should target.....:D

[amk]

1901 units sold in apr! 1788 excluding EC = 113 EC sold.

I want to see how the resale mkt did in Apr.... NUS index out ?

[land118]

1901 units sold in apr! 1788 excluding EC = 113 EC sold.
Amazing, what is MBT going to say about this? :D

GE effect, opposition trying to get me the sack..., my pre GE cooling measure no impact.?

[bargain hunter]

think not out yet.


I want to see how the resale mkt did in Apr.... NUS index out ?

[bargain hunter]

he doesn't need to do anything right? coz he got re-elected hahaha.

he just gotta watch may sales then see if more measures are needed.


Amazing, what is MBT going to say about this? :D

GE effect, opposition trying to get me the sack..., my pre GE cooling measure no impact.?

[land118]

he doesn't need to do anything right? coz he got re-elected hahaha.

he just gotta watch may sales then see if more measures are needed.

Ya, better spend more time meeting his residents and trying to help them out with their complaints and problems....:D

[amk]

... my pre GE cooling measure no impact.?

No impact on new sales since SSD no bite. It's almost as if MBT is protecting the developers, by pushing investors to new sales. Maybe Qwek/Liew told him "u made us bid ur land high high, then slap this SSD, how can ?" so MBT tiamtiam allow a SSD from date of option ;)

[ysyap]

Ya, better spend more time meeting his residents and trying to help them out with their complaints and problems....:DThen they come and complain property prices too high and April figures look scary... :spliff:

[bargain hunter]

Looking ahead, analysts expect May home sales to hit at least 1,500 units - and maybe even outstrip sales in April - as there have been many launches this month. Take-up should be strong as developers are rolling out more small units, which sell at relatively more affordable prices of under $1 million per unit, analysts said. 'We visited three showflats and noted that demand on the ground remains fairly strong,' said DBS Group Research analyst Lock Mun Yee yesterday. 'Buying interest is still centred on well-located developments with units priced at smaller quanta, as well as mass market projects.'
At Wing Tai Holdings' 496-unit Foresque Residences at Upper Bukit Timah, around 100 units have been sold at about $1,100-1,300 psf, sources said.
Other developments that saw steady sales recently include Hoi Hup Realty's 141-unit The Forester @ Mount Faber, where around 50 per cent of units were sold at an average price of about $2,000 psf; and the 69-unit 10 Shelford from Adam Properties, which saw a take-up of about 60 per cent of units at about $1,800-2,000 psf. Both developments offer a large proportion of small units.

[bargain hunter]

election over, time for bad news. in BT today:

"SINGAPORE's non-oil domestic exports (NODX) took a surprise knock last month, dipping 1.8 per cent from a year ago, the first monthly decline in 1.5 years.

The fall, which came after a revised 9.9 per cent increase in March and went against market expectations of a 6.5 per cent rise, may presage a sequential drop in gross domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter, according to Wu Kun Lung, an economist at Credit Suisse."

[DC33_2008]

Waiting to pick some good stocks on Wed and Silver to drop to USD30.
election over, time for bad news. in BT today:

"SINGAPORE's non-oil domestic exports (NODX) took a surprise knock last month, dipping 1.8 per cent from a year ago, the first monthly decline in 1.5 years.

The fall, which came after a revised 9.9 per cent increase in March and went against market expectations of a 6.5 per cent rise, may presage a sequential drop in gross domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter, according to Wu Kun Lung, an economist at Credit Suisse."

[hopeful]

election over, time for bad news. in BT today:

"SINGAPORE's non-oil domestic exports (NODX) took a surprise knock last month, dipping 1.8 per cent from a year ago, the first monthly decline in 1.5 years.

The fall, which came after a revised 9.9 per cent increase in March and went against market expectations of a 6.5 per cent rise, may presage a sequential drop in gross domestic product (GDP) in the second quarter, according to Wu Kun Lung, an economist at Credit Suisse." ministers bang balls. bonus cut already. anyway, would it affect property sentiment?

[richwang]

http://bnn-news.com/2011/05/05/world/soros-sells-gold-silver

"Last month, his investment fund Soros Fund Management sold nearly all of its gold and silver, reports The Wall Street Journal."

I guess it's time to say "Cash is King" again. If George Soros doesn't even want to hold gold, he is likely in short position now.

I am not going to buy anything until QE3 comes (in August? when US passes the law to increase the limit for deficit - which expires on Sept).

Thanks,
Richard

[devilplate]

http://bnn-news.com/2011/05/05/world/soros-sells-gold-silver

"Last month, his investment fund Soros Fund Management sold nearly all of its gold and silver, reports The Wall Street Journal."

I guess it's time to say "Cash is King" again. If George Soros doesn't even want to hold gold, he is likely in short position now.

I am not going to buy anything until QE3 comes (in August? when US passes the law to increase the limit for deficit - which expires on Sept).

Thanks,
Richard

Soro is the greatest devil!:hell-hath-no-fury:

I tink 2-3mths back telling ppl to buy precious metal! So tat he can sell!:hell-hath-no-fury:

Hahaha.....i took his hint n sell tgt:D

[bargain hunter]

don't think it will affect in short run (blame japan earthquake for supply chain problems in electronics exports) until the GDP no. really comes out no good in july. coincides with seventh month in aug? maybe then there could be some dent in sentiment?



ministers bang balls. bonus cut already. anyway, would it affect property sentiment?

[devilplate]

don't think it will affect in short run (blame japan earthquake for supply chain problems in electronics exports) until the GDP no. really comes out no good in july. coincides with seventh month in aug? maybe then there could be some dent in sentiment?
Stock market flattish oredi....if drop below 3k...danger

[dmonddd]

US in trouble...rating shld come down with so much debt $$$
1 more round of higher borrowing rates in US esp corporates
spill over to Asia ..

[dmonddd]

equity prices shld come down with investors switching portfolio mix

[DC33_2008]

watch out for the mortgage problem.
US in trouble...rating shld come down with so much debt $$$
1 more round of higher borrowing rates in US esp corporates
spill over to Asia ..

[dmonddd]

watch out for the mortgage problem.
doubt there will be another round of mortgage problem..i see more of the corporate problems this round

[DC33_2008]

mortgagee is suing the institutions.
doubt there will be another round of mortgage problem..i see more of the corporate problems this round

[Eldenfirefly]

Actually, I think Singapore property market still relatively ok. But must see if a dangerous trend starts to take off. Nowadays, more people considering taking up an equity housing loan.

This means that their existing property, which they pay down somwhat already, and the price has gone up. Then they go to the bank, get a bigger loan. So they get cash immediately, but its all actually borrowed money. And with that cash, they go and buy a second propery, or play stocks, etc.

If this trend becomes very common place here, then we will be in danger of becoming like the US - where the subprime loans caused the biggest housing crash there in decades.

So far, not quite popular yet, though I think more banks are now trying to encourage this kind of thing.

[DC33_2008]

It dangerous to play with fire. Too much risk for a conservative person.
Actually, I think Singapore property market still relatively ok. But must see if a dangerous trend starts to take off. Nowadays, more people considering taking up an equity housing loan.

This means that their existing property, which they pay down somwhat already, and the price has gone up. Then they go to the bank, get a bigger loan. So they get cash immediately, but its all actually borrowed money. And with that cash, they go and buy a second propery, or play stocks, etc.

If this trend becomes very common place here, then we will be in danger of becoming like the US - where the subprime loans caused the biggest housing crash there in decades.

So far, not quite popular yet, though I think more banks are now trying to encourage this kind of thing.

[dmonddd]

Actually, I think Singapore property market still relatively ok. But must see if a dangerous trend starts to take off. Nowadays, more people considering taking up an equity housing loan.

This means that their existing property, which they pay down somwhat already, and the price has gone up. Then they go to the bank, get a bigger loan. So they get cash immediately, but its all actually borrowed money. And with that cash, they go and buy a second propery, or play stocks, etc.

If this trend becomes very common place here, then we will be in danger of becoming like the US - where the subprime loans caused the biggest housing crash there in decades.

So far, not quite popular yet, though I think more banks are now trying to encourage this kind of thing.

ok at current low interest rates...what if rates go up?
HK it happened when interest rates doubled...owners got screwed big time as rent not enuf to cover bank repayments.

everyone is now thinking rates will stay at this level for next 5 yrs..think so?

[bargain hunter]

seldom see sti falls affecting ppty buying sentiment (esp. in OCR) leh. in the past sti drop also pple buy and buy ppty. LOL.


Stock market flattish oredi....if drop below 3k...danger

[DC33_2008]

Unless US continues to print money. What is the likelihood?
ok at current low interest rates...what if rates go up?
HK it happened when interest rates doubled...owners got screwed big time as rent not enuf to cover bank repayments.

everyone is now thinking rates will stay at this level for next 5 yrs..think so?

[devilplate]

ok at current low interest rates...what if rates go up?
HK it happened when interest rates doubled...owners got screwed big time as rent not enuf to cover bank repayments.

everyone is now thinking rates will stay at this level for next 5 yrs..think so?
Money mgmt:D

Good debts vs bad debts:D

[devilplate]

It dangerous to play with fire. Too much risk for a conservative person.
Borrow out of equity loan actually safer....set aside for future installments or in case ask to top up for other ppty:D

Borrowing cost actually less den 0.5% now:D

[Eldenfirefly]

Equity loan is a great instrument, if you know how to use it well. But not everyone is good at money management. Most American who took up an equity loan ended up spending the extra money they received. They never realised it was a loan that they would ultimately have to pay back.

If used wisely for investment purposes, then it can be very powerful. Like what devilplate said, now housing loan interest rate is 0.5%. So, if the bank is willing to loan to hundredds of thousands of dollars, you are essentially playing with their money, not your own.

The problem is that investment is not a bao jai case. Will go up, and will go down also. Risk is there. Just have to remember, that its money you loaned and have to pay back eventually, so if you end up losing money, then you will be quite cham ...

[DC33_2008]

Each of us have different reserves and comfort level. Good debt can become bad debt when thing change for the worst quickly. Want to sleep peacefully at night and every night.
Borrow out of equity loan actually safer....set aside for future installments or in case ask to top up for other ppty:D

Borrowing cost actually less den 0.5% now:D

[Eldenfirefly]

Problem is, out of 10 people, how many would be truely a savvy investor? Maybe only 2 or 3? The rest will end up spend the money, panic when market crash, buy high sell low, etc etc.

And maybe out of the 3 who are savvy, 2 of them will not choose to take up an equity home loan. After all, if they are so savvy, they know that as long as they are patient, they will make money eventuallly, so dun need to be so impatient, play with borrowed money. Especially since if they are savvy, then they will know the risks of borrowed money.

That's why in the end, all the credit card companies, banks trying to get you to increase your loan. Most of them don't play on the investment factor. They try and tempt you to take up more loan so that you can spend the money on something immediate.

Far more people will choose immediate satisfaction of buying something nice, going on holiday, even if on borrowed money like an equity loan, rather than investing it, then have to be patient and wait for the returns to come in.

Think about it this way. Out of 10 people who sign up an equity loan. If it goes through, so you now find your bank account has increased by $200,000 or more! Will there not be a temptation to spend that money??? How many people got so much self control! :)

[teddybear]

Record new sales! Hooray! Either MBT's cooling measures are not targeted enough at new sales (actually favour new sales and penalize resale more) or could it be deliberate because after all they are selling more land at record prices? How to expect developers not to launch and sell more when MBT sell more land? Irony is it? MBT expect developers to buy 99LH land and keep to see them depreciate without selling properties to be developed?
Questions to answer:
1) New sales still increasing in big number, how about resale?
2) New sales price increase vs resale price increase/decrease?
3) 60% LTV and 4 years SSD seem to make buying new launch more favorable for buyers than resale because don't have to come out 40% cash upfront (only 20% cash upfront, the rest 20% cash cough out after 1-1.5 years where resale need to pay 40% cash upfront upon completion of sale!) and that 4 years SSD no effect on new launch since new launch property take 3+ years to TOP and they can then sell with negligible SSD penalty! Shouldn't SSD for new launch start from TOP date? I heard many people coffeeshop talk saying there is conflict of interest here as they can sell more land to developers at higher and higher prices! :beats-me-man:
4) Can MND be more transparent by defining upfront what they constitute as property bubble (is it just price increase only or sales increase or both and how much etc?), and when (based on their criteria) they will need to introduce more cooling measure? With so many cooling measures even before there is sign of property bubble, the policy makers may give people impression that they missed the boat and dying to get onto the boat to buy properties and hence want to cool down for them to board the boat very early before sign of property bubble? :rolleyes: How many of the policy makers have bought properties since the first cooling measure? :D


===================================
Today Online: Against expectations, new private home sales soar




by Jo-Ann Huang Limin (http://www.todayonline.com/Hotnews/EDC110517-0000289/Against-expectations,-new-private-home-sales-soar)
04:47 AM May 17, 2011

SINGAPORE - Defying market expectations, sales of new private homes surged 29 per cent last month from March to 1,788 units, driven by robust demand in the mass market sector from HDB upgraders, data released yesterday by the Urban Redevelopment Authority showed

That's the highest number of transactions since last November, as buyers returned in force after a temporary lull in February following the introduction of the fourth round of property market cooling measures in January that included stamp duties as high as 16 per cent.

PropNex's communications head Adam Tan said: "It is clear that homeowners and investors alike have assimilated the last cooling measures announced on Jan 13. This has resulted in continuing buyer confidence that has seen steadily increasing sales since February."

Analysts say the fear of runaway home prices may have further fuelled sentiment last month, adding to the snowballing effect as buyers bought their way through more property launches.

Ms Chia Siew Chuin, director of research and advisory at property consultancy Colliers International, said, "There are also buyers who probably entered the market because they could be fearing that they may miss the boat and therefore would commit to the market before prices run away again."

For April, suburban areas led private home sales again, with 1,010 units sold last month, while city fringe areas achieved sales of 477 units, and central region homes saw the least sales with 301 units.

And amid the persistently high liquidity environment, analysts remain upbeat, noting that most buyers are choosing smaller and cheaper units in suburban areas.

PropNex's Mr Tan noted that "56.2 per cent of all the units sold were in the mass market, or under S$1,200 per square foot. The strong showing in the mass market indicates the sustained interest in private property by HDB upgraders."

Two mass market projects accounted for 564 units or roughly one-third of April's transactions, PropNex noted, with 340 units in Eight Courtyards in Yishun (picture) sold at a median price of $789psf, while 224 units Hedges Park in Upper Changi were sold at a median price of $889psf.

Mr Ku Swee Yong, chief executive officer at International Property Advisor, said: "Next two months, depending on how many new projects are in the pipeline, if there are 1,500 units launched, we could see a take up of maybe about 1,300 to 1,500 units again."

Including Executive Condominiums, new home sales totalled 1,901 last month, up from 1,543 units in March.

Developers also rolled out more properties last month, after fears of a nuclear crisis caused by the March 11 earthquake in Japan eased. A total of 2,046 units were launched, a 64 per cent rise from March.

With the property market remaining hot, some analysts expect it won't be long before the Government takes action again.

Colliers' Ms Chia said: "Further measures are likely to be imposed going forward should the numbers continue to show that it is going to be so robust."

Other analysts say the Government will more likely introduce further measures to help first-time HDB flat buyers instead of targeting speculation in the private property market.

[devilplate]

Let say one own a few ppty n dun hf much spare cash n dun wish to sell any of the ppty....can take equity loan n set aside for rainy days in case downturn , cant find tenants....:D

Or just apply spare credit line just in case:D

[DC33_2008]

MBT is barking up the wrong tree. Owners of Appreciating hdb homes r buyimg private properties. They shld conduct a study.

[ysyap]

Waiting to pick some good stocks on Wed and Silver to drop to USD30.Gold and silver going south... dangerous to enter now...

[ysyap]

Unless US continues to print money. What is the likelihood?Double edged sword... US already reached 14.29 trillion dollars debt ceiling... cannot go up further liao... :doh: If print more money, economy suffer, if don't print, economy also suffer... :banghead:

[DC33_2008]

Gold and silver going south... dangerous to enter now...
Thks. Will wait.

[ysyap]

MBT is barking up the wrong tree. Owners of Appreciating hdb homes r buyimg private properties. They shld conduct a study.Don't you understand? MBT seeks only to offend less people. 80% of Singaporeans stay in HDB so if he come out with rule that forbids HDB upgraders to enter private market, sure kanna big time during GE. Offend less people is always more prudent that offending more... :D

[DC33_2008]

Don't you understand? MBT seeks only to offend less people. 80% of Singaporeans stay in HDB so if he come out with rule that forbids HDB upgraders to enter private market, sure kanna big time during GE. Offend less people is always more prudent that offending more... :D
Unfortunately he sabotage george yeo nd team in aljunied grc as lim hwee hua has lowest atbcos ofc serangoon garden, gct, vivian, etc win a lot of private properties.

[ysyap]

Unfortunately he sabotage george yeo nd team in aljunied grc as lim hwee hua has lowest atbcos ofc serangoon garden, gct, vivian, etc win a lot of private properties.You win some, you lose some.. in this case, lose many... All awaiting his response to April sales figures... :D

[linchong84]

MND can't do much already.. I thought the 4 year ssd already quite jialat, now people can only sell when it TOP.. If they extend it to beyond that, then pte condo and EC not much difference already.. I think this is just a situation where many people are cash rich, and the inflation rate, interest rate situation also 'force' people to buy properties.. And not forgetting the 6.5mil population target.. All these factors are not something that mnd alone can influence..

[teddybear]

People are complaining about HDB flats escalating prices, cannot get a HDB flat for young people planning to get married due to insufficient supply etc, and they have 4 cooling measures to cool private properties? Either they are not having proper feedback to know what majority of citizens want or have other agenda to cater to and can't be bothered with HDB flat prices. Nevertheless, they should have heard these citizens loud and clear with Alunied Ministers being booted out and many GRCs & SMCs suffering large swing of votes to opposition. They try to be funny again and several more GRCs & SMCs will swing into the hand of opposition in 2016! :o


MBT is barking up the wrong tree. Owners of Appreciating hdb homes r buyimg private properties. They shld conduct a study.

[Laguna]

http://bnn-news.com/2011/05/05/world/soros-sells-gold-silver

"Last month, his investment fund Soros Fund Management sold nearly all of its gold and silver, reports The Wall Street Journal."

I guess it's time to say "Cash is King" again. If George Soros doesn't even want to hold gold, he is likely in short position now.

I am not going to buy anything until QE3 comes (in August? when US passes the law to increase the limit for deficit - which expires on Sept).

Thanks,
Richard

Is John Paulson buying>

[teddybear]

Ha ha ha! They offended:
1) the young generation calling for help on buying their new HDB flats with prices escalating out of control and also insufficient supply (about 30% of voters?)
2) those planning to upgrade from smaller HDB flats to bigger HDB flats because of bigger family sizes calling for help because of escalating prices and stupid policies on 60% LTV for 2nd properties etc (30% of voters?)
3) 4 cooling measures targeted at private properties (rather than they deal with HDB prices & supply problem) angered private property owners (20% of voters?)
In total, they offended 80% of voters from their MND policies! :doh:


Don't you understand? MBT seeks only to offend less people. 80% of Singaporeans stay in HDB so if he come out with rule that forbids HDB upgraders to enter private market, sure kanna big time during GE. Offend less people is always more prudent that offending more... :D

[devilplate]

Next ge 5yrs time....mbt can do nothing and ppty market will crash by itself by external factors:D

[rattydrama]

MND can't do much already.. I thought the 4 year ssd already quite jialat, now people can only sell when it TOP.. If they extend it to beyond that, then pte condo and EC not much difference already.. I think this is just a situation where many people are cash rich, and the inflation rate, interest rate situation also 'force' people to buy properties.. And not forgetting the 6.5mil population target.. All these factors are not something that mnd alone can influence..

is 6.5m still a target after this election? personally I think it will go slow but how slow I dont really know and I am starting to wonder what direction is MND going to adopt now. previously it was quite clear, after this election, maybe no direction, let the market force and face book feedback do the job? :p

Having said that, if there is another 1-2 GRCs fall into opposition in the next election, maybe SG investors will scare scare liao.

[rattydrama]

Ha ha ha! They offended:
1) the young generation calling for help on buying their new HDB flats with prices escalating out of control and also insufficient supply (about 30% of voters?)
2) those planning to upgrade from smaller HDB flats to bigger HDB flats because of bigger family sizes calling for help because of escalating prices and stupid policies on 60% LTV for 2nd properties etc (30% of voters?)
3) 4 cooling measures targeted at private properties (rather than they deal with HDB prices & supply problem) angered private property owners (20% of voters?)
In total, they offended 80% of voters from their MND policies! :doh:


this is a good one!:p

[devilplate]

is 6.5m still a target after this election? personally I think it will go slow but how slow I dont really know and I am starting to wonder what direction is MND going to adopt now. previously it was quite clear, after this election, maybe no direction, let the market force and face book feedback do the job? :p

Having said that, if there is another 1-2 GRCs fall into opposition in the next election, maybe SG investors will scare scare liao.
Dun worry, next crisis will happen b4 nxt ge....ft n pr will b jobless n balek kampong:D

[Laguna]

Gold and silver going south... dangerous to enter now...

technically, this is no longer a correction for precious metals. Sell into rally.

[wind30]

Having said that, if there is another 1-2 GRCs fall into opposition in the next election, maybe SG investors will scare scare liao.

the way our election system is structured, if the next time PAP loses 6% more vote share, it is not losing 1-2 more GRCs but 3 or maybe even 4.

PAP is standing on the edge of a cliff and they knows it. simple statistics.

[devilplate]

the way our election system is structured, if the next time PAP loses 6% more vote share, it is not losing 1-2 more GRCs but 3 or maybe even 4.

PAP is standing on the edge of a cliff and they knows it. simple statistics.
Tats when sg ppty become as cheap as jb:D

[rattydrama]

Dun worry, next crisis will happen b4 nxt ge....ft n pr will b jobless n balek kampong:D

yr place nobody rent leh...you ok or not?

[devilplate]

yr place nobody rent leh...you ok or not?
$1 anyone?;)

[rattydrama]

the way our election system is structured, if the next time PAP loses 6% more vote share, it is not losing 1-2 more GRCs but 3 or maybe even 4.

PAP is standing on the edge of a cliff and they knows it. simple statistics.

I still think that for another 50 years, PAP will still be in power. Having said that I could be wrong. But again, whats wrong for them to be in power so long as they learn their lessons. I would rather not change. Look at Eric of WP. I am not saying WP is no good but not everyone.

[rattydrama]

$1 anyone?;)
so long as u are happy. u maybe paying for your tenant to stay. I would rather keep it empty or sell.:p

[devilplate]

so long as u are happy. u maybe paying for your tenant to stay. I would rather keep it empty or sell.:p
Den i will buy from u:D

[linchong84]

is 6.5m still a target after this election? personally I think it will go slow but how slow I dont really know and I am starting to wonder what direction is MND going to adopt now. previously it was quite clear, after this election, maybe no direction, let the market force and face book feedback do the job? :p

Having said that, if there is another 1-2 GRCs fall into opposition in the next election, maybe SG investors will scare scare liao.


After this election, it's very clear that the middle income grp not happy. But this grp of people are very hard to please so govt should:

(1) concentrate on giving housing subsidies to the poor (bottom 20% of voters). It won't be financially taxing to please the poor cos a few hundred or thousand dollars of subsidies will make a big difference to them. So buying their votes will be cheaper and easier.

(2) concentrate on pleasing the rich (top 20%) by continuing the FT tap to let the population reach 6.5mil so that property prices can continue to huat. Let them earn till happy happy so that they will always vote for the ruling party in fear of political instability which will affect their cash cows.

(3) concentrate on persuading the huge number of foreigners and PRs (20%) to take up citizenship to form new supporter base for the govt.

(4) forget about the middle income people as they are hard to please.

There you go, the perfect solution: govt can continue to ensure economic and gdp growth while ensuring they will still win elections after elections.

[irisng]

I still think that for another 50 years, PAP will still be in power. Having said that I could be wrong. But again, whats wrong for them to be in power so long as they learn their lessons. I would rather not change. Look at Eric of WP. I am not saying WP is no good but not everyone.

Ya, like what LSL says, if you make mistakes, apologise but don't commit the same mistakes again. I'm worried that if too many different oppositions join the parliament, there might come a day where S'pore will be like Bangkok and Taiwan which I think most Singaporeans will not like this to happen.:scared-3:

[rattydrama]

Ya, like what LSL says, if you make mistakes, apologise but don't commit the same mistakes again. I'm worried that if too many different oppositions join the parliament, there might come a day where S'pore will be like Bangkok and Taiwan which I think most Singaporeans will not like this to happen.:scared-3:

This is my views as well, but the world belongs to the young n I hope they see the light. :)

[rattydrama]

Den i will buy from u:D
You are more savyy then me n I am glad ure willing to buy from me should I want to sell n move to JB..:p

[devilplate]

You are more savyy then me n I am glad ure willing to buy from me should I want to sell n move to JB..:p
Wah...mabe jb become sg n sg become jb:scared-1:

[ysyap]

Tats when sg ppty become as cheap as jb:Dand some say Batam! :spliff:

[irisng]

After this election, it's very clear that the middle income grp not happy. But this grp of people are very hard to please so govt should:

(1) concentrate on giving housing subsidies to the poor (bottom 20% of voters). It won't be financially taxing to please the poor cos a few hundred or thousand dollars of subsidies will make a big difference to them. So buying their votes will be cheaper and easier.

(2) concentrate on pleasing the rich (top 20%) by continuing the FT tap to let the population reach 6.5mil so that property prices can continue to huat. Let them earn till happy happy so that they will always vote for the ruling party in fear of political instability which will affect their cash cows.

(3) concentrate on persuading the huge number of foreigners and PRs (20%) to take up citizenship to form new supporter base for the govt.

(4) forget about the middle income people as they are hard to please.

There you go, the perfect solution: govt can continue to ensure economic and gdp growth while ensuring they will still win elections after elections.

Good idea, but I think still give some "sweet" to the middle income people la, afterall I believe some of them also vote for PAP.

I feel that govt giving out money won't really help much with the elections. People took the money and spend/save and then forget about it but the problems of HDB prices (for the poor 1st timer & young couples), food inflation and transport system still exists. :banghead:

[rattydrama]

Wah...mabe jb become sg n sg become jb:scared-1:
LKW said it before one day we maybe have a reunion... anyway out of topic lah.

Life can be quite unpredictable..anything is possible... life is also short... enjoy!

I hope I have not offended you with my comments in the past. My apologies if that is the case. excuse my poor engurish.....:cheers1:

[devilplate]

LKW said it before one day we maybe have a reunion... anyway out of topic lah.

Life can be quite unpredictable..anything is possible... life is also short... enjoy!

I hope I have not offended you with my comments in the past. My apologies if that is the case. excuse my poor engurish.....:cheers1:
? Offended me? No worries la:spliff:

But strange lor...nobody worry abt US? All expect debt ceiling sure raise again ar?:cool:

[linchong84]

Good idea, but I think still give some "sweet" to the middle income people la, afterall I believe some of them also vote for PAP.

I feel that govt giving out money won't really help much with the elections. People took the money and spend/save and then forget about it but the problems of HDB prices (for the poor 1st timer & young couples), food inflation and transport system still exists. :banghead:


You cant please everybody one. Whatever policy that govt comes up with, there will be some winners and some losers. So no point wasting too much time with middle income group, maybe just give one or two sweet can liao.

Now elections are over, govt straightaway say they are considering to raise income ceiling for public housing. This policy only benefits the small grp of 8-12k people, and will piss all others (<8k face more competition for BTO; >12k face potential drop in condo demand). So, to launch it 6 mths after elections will ensure people will forget 5 years later due to recency effect of humans' memory. Anyway to people, this might be a small move, but actually it has great implications. Govt can take this opportunity to justify an increase in BTO prices due to affordability and increased demand. DBSS and EC developers will also bid higher for land and eventually raise the selling price. Govt also collect more land sales money. In the meantime can reduce demand for pte condo and curb prices. One move kill many birds.

[ysyap]

? Offended me? No worries la:spliff:

But strange lor...nobody worry abt US? All expect debt ceiling sure raise again ar?:cool:Who is the 'all'?

[linchong84]

? Offended me? No worries la:spliff:

But strange lor...nobody worry abt US? All expect debt ceiling sure raise again ar?:cool:


That is a given. Now republicans act fierce only. No matter how fierce they are, they won't become suicide bomber kill everyone. Debt ceiling raise is a given and definite.

[ysyap]

You cant please everybody one. Whatever policy that govt comes up with, there will be some winners and some losers. So no point wasting too much time with middle income group, maybe just give one or two sweet can liao.

Now elections are over, govt straightaway say they are considering to raise income ceiling for public housing. This policy only benefits the small grp of 8-12k people, and will piss all others (<8k face more competition for BTO; >12k face potential drop in condo demand). So, to launch it 6 mths after elections will ensure people will forget 5 years later due to recency effect of humans' memory. Anyway to people, this might be a small move, but actually it has great implications. Govt can take this opportunity to justify an increase in BTO prices due to affordability and increased demand. DBSS and EC developers will also bid higher for land and eventually raise the selling price. Govt also collect more land sales money. In the meantime can reduce demand for pte condo and curb prices. One move kill many birds.Yup... like what you said, you win some, you lose some and the biggest winner is the govt lor... :D but it will be interesting to listen to MBT on how is HDB continue to be affordable??? :spliff:

[devilplate]

Yup... like what you said, you win some, you lose some and the biggest winner is the govt lor... :D but it will be interesting to listen to MBT on how is HDB continue to be affordable??? :spliff:
Dun worry, crisis is coming....be patient:D

[linchong84]

Yup... like what you said, you win some, you lose some and the biggest winner is the govt lor... :D but it will be interesting to listen to MBT on how is HDB continue to be affordable??? :spliff:


Honestly, i actually side with MBT on this. I feel BTOs are so bloody cheap and affordable yet some people will still complain. For those who complain resale are ex, they don't have much basis too. Cos most of the people who bought resale are 2nd-timers who will sell their house at a high resale price also. So, nett-nett no diff ma.. For those 1st timers who buy resale, they can only blame themselves for being impatient..

[linchong84]

Dun worry, crisis is coming....be patient:D


Crisis won't come to singapore one in the near future. The 2 casinos earning big bucks and paying good taxes to govt. Singapore's economic strategy of being a global hub can ensure it will sustain for at least the next 5 years. Now we only need to worry whether there will be over-supply in 2-3 years time. If no, then the bull will continue to chiong and chiong liao.

[devilplate]

Crisis won't come to singapore one in the near future. The 2 casinos earning big bucks and paying good taxes to govt. Singapore's economic strategy of being a global hub can ensure it will sustain for at least the next 5 years. Now we only need to worry whether there will be over-supply in 2-3 years time. If no, then the bull will continue to chiong and chiong liao.
I mean external shocks ....

[ysyap]

Honestly, i actually side with MBT on this. I feel BTOs are so bloody cheap and affordable yet some people will still complain. For those who complain resale are ex, they don't have much basis too. Cos most of the people who bought resale are 2nd-timers who will sell their house at a high resale price also. So, nett-nett no diff ma.. For those 1st timers who buy resale, they can only blame themselves for being impatient..Affordable or not affordable is besides the point... just want to hear how he answers those people who are making the noise.... :o

[ysyap]

I mean external shocks ....Singapore is pretty dependent on external supplies but having said that, Singapore's one of the first to emerge from the last crisis... good for ppty owners but not good for buyers. Some probably missed the boat... :spliff:

[devilplate]

Singapore is pretty dependent on external supplies but having said that, Singapore's one of the first to emerge from the last crisis... good for ppty owners but not good for buyers. Some probably missed the boat... :spliff:

Hmm....bubble is really brewing:D

[linchong84]

I mean external shocks ....


u expecting double dip?

[ysyap]

Hmm....bubble is really brewing:DLet it come... :p

[Komo]

Better keep cash now and be ready...:D

[ysyap]

Better keep cash now and be ready...:DOr sell now and be ready... :p

[teddybear]

External shocks can also cause price to shoot up because many foreigners coming to Singapore to escape from earth quake, tsunami, nuclear crisis etc! :D


I mean external shocks ....

[land118]

IMF chief under pressure to step down, US debt still hanging, Greece debt problem still brewing, Osama followers threatening global security, wonder what will be the next trigger event....to spark crisis...,if ever it's near term.

Cash is king..., save for crisis..., hard to find gem now current property market, yield getting lower for new buys, agents now think 4% rental yield is high and 3% rental yield is decent...

[CCR]

So sell and wait for crash? But we just came out of one in2009... It only two years

[land118]

So sell and wait for crash? But we just came out of one in2009... It only two years
Well, no one know for sure.., maybe it won't happen. But I have a long time buddy who is an Agent, he just sold his place and started renting, saying he prepared to wait for crisis. Not sure if it's the wise thing to do. If investment property maybe ok to sell, but for one's roof maybe playing it too thin...in the event crisis din come until few years down the road, then my friend short changed....

[DaytonaSS]

So sell and wait for crash? But we just came out of one in2009... It only two years

hold cash = sure lose 5% due to inflation. Hold 5 years lost 25% liao.

[teddybear]

They are absolutely right! Imagine you borrow at 1% and earn 3% rental yield means you are making 2% profit!
For $2m property, you make $40k per year (assume you put in 40% cash of $800k => 5% nett return!).
In comparison, does it make sense to put the $800k in bank and earn 0.05% nett return? :banghead:


IMF chief under pressure to step down, US debt still hanging, Greece debt problem still brewing, Osama followers threatening global security, wonder what will be the next trigger event....to spark crisis...,if ever it's near term.

Cash is king..., save for crisis..., hard to find gem now current property market, yield getting lower for new buys, agents now think 4% rental yield is high and 3% rental yield is decent...

[CCR]

Well, no one know for sure.., maybe it won't happen. But I have a long time buddy who is an Agent, he just sold his place and started renting, saying he prepared to wait for crisis. Not sure if it's the wise thing to do. If investment property maybe ok to sell, but for one's roof maybe playing it too thin...in the event crisis din come until few years down the road, then my friend short changed....

Wow that's dangerous man.... If market don't go down for the next three years then he will lose his rents for three years plus the appreciation of the current market.... Rents of 4k per month over three years is almost 150k man.. Plus the stamp duty and transaction cost of the new property then almost 200k man.... To recover this and just break-even, a 2m property needs to drop by at least 10% just to break even, it is not often that prices correct more than 20%, so very dangerous, not worth the risk i think

[DaytonaSS]

Well, no one know for sure.., maybe it won't happen. But I have a long time buddy who is an Agent, he just sold his place and started renting, saying he prepared to wait for crisis. Not sure if it's the wise thing to do. If investment property maybe ok to sell, but for one's roof maybe playing it too thin...in the event crisis din come until few years down the road, then my friend short changed....

come come lets pray to whichever god that u pray to that this friend dont walk in casino.

[land118]

come come lets pray to whichever god that u pray to that this friend dont walk in casino.
Ya, something holding too much cash, don't know what to do, casino is a temptation...

[land118]

They are absolutely right! Imagine you borrow at 1% and earn 3% rental yield means you are making 2% profit!
For $2m property, you make $40k per year (assume you put in 40% cash of $800k => 5% nett return!).
In comparison, does it make sense to put the $800k in bank and earn 0.05% nett return? :banghead:
If have cash, can't leave in under pillow or Bank..., for me I park some liquid asset, equity, bonds...if need, just cash out...for rainy days...

[kane]

If have cash, can't leave in under pillow or Bank..., for me I park some liquid asset, equity, bonds...if need, just cash out...for rainy days...

hypothetically speaking, what if equities and bonds drop more than property prices like what it did in 2008? what would be plan B. i thought of going this route but i wasn't convinced liquid assets could hold up in value either.

[ysyap]

Well it is usually safer to park cash in ppty for 3 big reasons..

1. Ppty market often lags other price drop of hikes so there is still that 2 month buffer to quicky do something about it.
2. Ppty market, even when its lousy will eventually pick up after the trough is over so if have holding power, just wait a little longer lor...
3. Singapore govt has slightly more control over ppty market than bonds and other commodities so when things happen, they can still step in to help...:scared-2:

[land118]

hypothetically speaking, what if equities and bonds drop more than property prices like what it did in 2008? what would be plan B. i thought of going this route but i wasn't convinced liquid assets could hold up in value either.
Ya, no sure win...investment, u need to be actively involve in managing this portfolio. Even those so called capital guarantee investment may not be 100% guarantee..., got to read the fine print. For those who don't want to monitor, property in the long term still quite good, at least able to defray inflation and chance of capital appreciation. But where to park the funds needed for emergency-like downturn, holding investment property when there is no tenants and mortgages to pay, opportunistic property that come along to buy, such need to park some liquid asset somewhere....

Last time, such funds needed for investment property is small, 20% LTV, nowadays at 40%, want to invest in good decent size, need to park some $1-2mil....

[irisng]

If have cash, can't leave in under pillow or Bank..., for me I park some liquid asset, equity, bonds...if need, just cash out...for rainy days...

How about preference shares? Is it safe?

[gn108]

Only one person in SG can see 50 years and even he saw ALJ falling...or perhaps even wanted it to fall.

You forget "momentum" - just as in markets, momentum is important.
Look at the candidates WP and SDP are attracting, then next compare with PAP (Ms Tin, Ms Foo or even Steve Tan).

PAP will hold on but if they don't go into camouflage or genuine damage control, they can easily lose their 66% majority in Parliament in 10 years time. But at the moment, they are running...but will be genuine or just camouflage?


I still think that for another 50 years, PAP will still be in power. Having said that I could be wrong. But again, whats wrong for them to be in power so long as they learn their lessons. I would rather not change. Look at Eric of WP. I am not saying WP is no good but not everyone.

[gn108]

I would say there is a place for PS in a broad portfolio.

I like to cover my mortgage loan with PS...so say I have a 500k loan @ 2%, I buy 250k PS @ 4-5%...then the rent is just money in the pocket.

I also use REITs to cover commercial/industrial exposure...and truth of it, it;s much cleaner to get this than handle rental/tenant issues.


How about preference shares? Is it safe?

[devilplate]

I would say there is a place for PS in a broad portfolio.

I like to cover my mortgage loan with PS...so say I have a 500k loan @ 2%, I buy 250k PS @ 4-5%...then the rent is just money in the pocket.

I also use REITs to cover commercial/industrial exposure...and truth of it, it;s much cleaner to get this than handle rental/tenant issues.

u seems vy savvy

any products tat will appreciate when crisis hit?

[land118]

How about preference shares? Is it safe?Preference shares is almost same as shares, but no voting rights, 1 grade below normal shares, can't generalise and say safe or not...have to see Company.

[land118]

DJ MARKET TALK: Analysts Wary Of Singapore Residential Sector

18 May 2011 10:51
DJ MARKET TALK: Analysts Wary Of Singapore Residential Sector
0250 GMT [Dow Jones] Singapore developers are mixed in muted trade so far, showing little reaction to Monday's Urban Redevelopment Authority April home sales data, which show sales of private residential units (excluding executive condominiums) rose 29% on month to 1788; the market was shut Tuesday for a public holiday. OCBC says the data show "price momentum of the mass-market segment continues unabated," with mass-market sales up 65% on-month, and that "the likelihood of further cooling measures is now higher, especially to protect the mass-market buyers from a potential bubble," and following the general election. The house remains wary of developers with significant residential exposure; it keeps UOL (U14.SG) rated Buy with S$5.57 fair value, its top pick in the sector, due to its limited residential exposure. UOB KayHian also has a cautious view on residential developers "as the heightened risk of additional measures continues to weigh down on them." It favors stocks with exposure to office, industrial and hospitality space, with OUE (LJ3.SG), Ascendas REIT (A17U.SG), and CDL Hospitality (J85.SG) its top picks for these segments respectively. ([email protected])

[Teana]

Business Times - 18 May 2011

Apartment at The Marq fetches $5,842 psf, sets a new price record
By KALPANA RASHIWALA (SINGAPORE)

A new record has been set for the price of a private residential property in Singapore. Sources say that a four-bedroom apartment at SC Global Developments' The Marq on Paterson Hill recently fetched $5,842 per square foot, surpassing the previous high of $5,600 psf set in October 2007 at The Orchard Residences.

The latest transaction at The Marq also sets a new benchmark for the project, surpassing the $5,262 psf that was achieved in 2007 for a 16th floor unit which was sold for $15.8 million, according to caveats data. Both units are of the same size, 3,003 sq ft.

The latest record breaker at The Marq, which involves a lump sum price of $17.5 million, is understood to be on the mid-to upper levels of the 24-storey project but is not a penthouse unit. The freehold development received Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) earlier this year and with the latest transaction, slightly over 40 per cent or 28 of the development's 66 units have been sold.

The penthouse unit at The Orchard Residences that held the previous record price of $5,600 psf is on the 53rd level and involved a lump sum price of $28.269 million. However, a caveat for that 5,048 sq ft unit does not appear to have been lodged, probably because the high net worth party who bought the apartment did not take any financing for the purchase and wants to preserve anonymity.
The Orchard Residences, which received Temporary Occupation Permit late last year, is on a site with a 99-year leasehold tenure starting around March 2006.

Pointing to a dearth of condo/apartment transactions above $5,000 psf since the previous property boom in 2007, Jones Lang LaSalle's head of residential and national director Jacqueline Wong attributes this to a lack of new project launches in the ultra-luxury segment, as well as the fact that demand from foreign investors in this segment has yet to recover to the level seen in 2007 because of the current state of the global economy.

'I don't recall any launches at $4,500 psf or higher, post 2007. Right now there are five new projects in the prime Ardmore Park area whose developers could launch them if they chose to - but they haven't,' she added.

Analysts say that developers' strong balance sheets and the difficulty they face in finding replacement land banks in the luxury residential sector at viable prices are some reasons for developers to hold back launches in this market segment.

'If any developer were to launch a new condo at above say $5,000 psf today, demand will likely come from owner occupiers rather than those buying with a view to collecting rental income because the yields won't be attractive,' JLL's Ms Wong said.
Anyone know who is the buyer?

[EBD]

How about preference shares? Is it safe?
Safe , but maybe not so liquid.

[devilplate]

Safe , but maybe not so liquid.

hey any instrument tat will appreciates if crisis hit?

[hopeful]

hey any instrument tat will appreciates if crisis hit?

what kind of crisis?
radiation? supposedly salt (proven a myth?)
earthquake? stock up on basic necessities, like rice
flood? stock up on basic necessities, like rice
volcanic eruption? stock up on basic necessities, like rice
dollar crash??? physical gold/silver?
inflation??? physical gold/silver?

[devilplate]

what kind of crisis?
radiation? supposedly salt (proven a myth?)
earthquake? stock up on basic necessities, like rice
flood? stock up on basic necessities, like rice
volcanic eruption? stock up on basic necessities, like rice
dollar crash??? physical gold/silver?
inflation??? physical gold/silver?
Financial crisis like subprime?

I realise precious metals, bonds aso drop during subprime crisis....perhaps only sgs bonds rise? But how liquid is it?

[ysyap]

Financial crisis like subprime?

I realise precious metals, bonds aso drop during subprime crisis....perhaps only sgs bonds rise? But how liquid is it?Gold/silver dropped??? Tot gold rose?

[devilplate]

Gold/silver dropped??? Tot gold rose?
Drop from about 1k to abt 700

[hopeful]

Financial crisis like subprime?

I realise precious metals, bonds aso drop during subprime crisis....perhaps only sgs bonds rise? But how liquid is it?

if everything drop, then no need to choose instruments, just SHORT everything :D.

[devilplate]

if everything drop, then no need to choose instruments, just SHORT everything :D.
Yes...haha

But now if sell stocks/ppty liao, money put whr...
I oredi started on hibernation mode since mid last yr....inflation vy xiong ar...lol:ashamed1: :D

[ysyap]

Drop from about 1k to abt 700Then the best is put in fix deposit lor... :banghead: at least not negative lor... hahaha

[hopeful]

Yes...haha

But now if sell stocks/ppty liao, money put whr...
I oredi started on hibernation mode since mid last yr....inflation vy xiong ar...lol:ashamed1: :D

I was looking at being a moneylender.
and looking at singapore law, whether a person's estate is liable for his debt.

[amk]

hey any instrument tat will appreciates if crisis hit?

assuming u cpty will not default, instruments like CDS will increase in value.

[icybluezzz]

Mr Mah out of cabinet liao

[stl67]

Mr Mah out of cabinet liao

http://www.straitstimes.com/GeneralElection/News/Story/STIStory_669848.html

really surprise at this. thought MBT is ok.

[Lovelle]

what's the impact to property price

[Geylang OKT]

Mr Mah out of cabinet liao

aiyah.... even MM LKY and SM GCT also out... what is small fly MBT? :D :D :D

[joe0599]

May be is the start of cheaper HDB? and pte property? They are serious this time, HDB policies and prices must be change to answer to the call of the people.

[Geylang OKT]

May be is the start of cheaper HDB? and pte property? They are serious this time, HDB policies and prices must be change to answer to the call of the people.

HDB 5rm Toa Payoh $270,000

HDB 3rm Toa Payoh $195,000

For rentals....

5rm flat rental in Toa Payoh $1,300

3rm flat rental in Toa Payoh $900

Donch laugh, such rates were indeed transacted back in 2004-5 :D :D :D

[Eldenfirefly]

I need people to enlighten me. For someone to go and buy those ultra luxury private property valued at 15 million or more, they must have how much net worth ah? My mind boggles at how rich they must be. Because to put so much into just one place, means they have far more than just 15 milllion right?

[hopeful]

May be is the start of cheaper HDB? and pte property? They are serious this time, HDB policies and prices must be change to answer to the call of the people.

so will people put off buying ECs now and adopt wait-and-see attitude?

[hopeful]

I need people to enlighten me. For someone to go and buy those ultra luxury private property valued at 15 million or more, they must have how much net worth ah? My mind boggles at how rich they must be. Because to put so much into just one place, means they have far more than just 15 milllion right?

why do you assume that?
people buy $1mil condo doesn't mean they are richer than $1mil right?

[pmet]

after election shocks :scared-1::scared-1::scared-1:

[joe0599]

HDB 5rm Toa Payoh $270,000

HDB 3rm Toa Payoh $195,000

For rentals....

5rm flat rental in Toa Payoh $1,300

3rm flat rental in Toa Payoh $900

Donch laugh, such rates were indeed transacted back in 2004-5 :D :D :D

Yap...we may not see such rate but will definitely cheaper than now....since they change the minister after so much complain meaning they also admit their mistake which means change is coming......stay tune people...

[phantom_opera]

Minister Khaw Boon Wan famous saying: "No money go JB loh"

The same saying can apply to MND too :doh:

[Lovelle]

Minister Khaw Boon Wan famous saying: "No money go JB loh"

The same saying can apply to MND too :doh:

wahahaha !!! JB price will cheong...quick buy

[phantom_opera]

Frankly speaking, unless they ban foreigners from buying or another recession hits ... otherwise eventually if property market crashes over here, it will benefit the foreigners only (imagine Beijing 4th ring is $1000psf, if SG is 800psf, rich Chinese will quickly snap up properties over here).

[august]

all along public housing should not have been so easily accessible to foreigners

[DC33_2008]

Mean test will come for HDB flats!:eek:

[teddybear]

Frankly speaking, IMHO, HDB income ceiling of $8k don't need to be raised. How many people are affected by that $8k ceiling buying their 1st property? Fresh graduates generally about $3-3.5k pm only, so that $8k ceiling is a good incentive for them to get married and get a HDB flat early.
Instead, they should just increase the supply and ensure that the 4-rm HDB flat price remains affordable to median income families. The rest will scale accordingly.
And the private property market sector only affects like 15-20% people, why should they go and meddle unless there is a property bubble or for some other unknown reason (e.g. got conflict of interest or not?)? And there isn't any bubble for now (since they can't even define what is a bubble properly!). The price increase seems to be inline with the increase in income of the top 20% earners. It is that private properties are just too cheap previously and not that they are too expensive now! :cheers1:


Mean test will come for HDB flats!:eek:

[linchong84]

so will people put off buying ECs now and adopt wait-and-see attitude?

This kind of thing sure got domino effect.. I suspect his first move will be to increase ceiling for public housing, ie bto to 10k and ec, dbss to 12k.. This move will make these housing huat, while mass market condo will kena big time.. After that people see price start dropping, everybody scared also selling their units, causing price correction.. This seems like the perfect next pte property cooling measure..

For resale, to please singaporeans, maybe he will come out with some extra stamp duty for foreigners and PRs.. By doing this, it will reduce the price of resale while at the same time pressure more foreigners and PRs to take up citizenship.. One stone kill 2 birds.. This is the way forward..

[linchong84]

Frankly speaking, IMHO, HDB income ceiling of $8k don't need to be raised. How many people are affected by that $8k ceiling buying their 1st property? Fresh graduates generally about $3-3.5k pm only, so that $8k ceiling is a good incentive for them to get married and get a HDB flat early.
Instead, they should just increase the supply and ensure that the 4-rm HDB flat price remains affordable to median income families. The rest will scale accordingly.
And the private property market sector only affects like 15-20% people, why should they go and meddle unless there is a property bubble or for some other unknown reason (e.g. got conflict of interest or not?)? And there isn't any bubble for now (since they can't even define what is a bubble properly!). The price increase seems to be inline with the increase in income of the top 20% earners. It is that private properties are just too cheap previously and not that they are too expensive now! :cheers1:


Middle income grp always aspire to buy pte housing. But the price increase faster than their income, so they are unhappy.. Now govt trying to please them, so govt need to lower pte property prices.. U give them a dream and hope, they give u a vote..

[irisng]

Frankly speaking, IMHO, HDB income ceiling of $8k don't need to be raised. How many people are affected by that $8k ceiling buying their 1st property? Fresh graduates generally about $3-3.5k pm only, so that $8k ceiling is a good incentive for them to get married and get a HDB flat early.
Instead, they should just increase the supply and ensure that the 4-rm HDB flat price remains affordable to median income families. The rest will scale accordingly.
And the private property market sector only affects like 15-20% people, why should they go and meddle unless there is a property bubble or for some other unknown reason (e.g. got conflict of interest or not?)? And there isn't any bubble for now (since they can't even define what is a bubble properly!). The price increase seems to be inline with the increase in income of the top 20% earners. It is that private properties are just too cheap previously and not that they are too expensive now! :cheers1:

I was thinking if govt is going to increase the ceiling to 10K, then more people can afford to buy HDB, isn't it will push the HDB prices up further. But it seems that nowadays lot of upgraders prefer to own a pte ppty than HDB. I'm not very familiar with the current system of applying HDB but I think it could be the downpayment that causes the poor 1st timer/young couples who just started working unable to foot up the cash. If I remember correctly, during my old old time, I can use the CPF to foot out the downpayment, don't need to come out with cash and we borrowed the loan from the CPF board and not from the bank.

[hyenergix]

Mass market condo and MM will most likely be hit badly if the ceiliing for EC is raised by $2k. Many ECs are very well-located and value for $.

I hope it can be raised further so that more people can buy and HDB can earn our $ and it goes back to the government reserve instead of into the private developers' pocket.

[McKinnon]

dont underestimate the intrinsic desire to move to a condominium.

my young colleagues tell me, better to own an MM condo than a big hdb.

and i don't think young ppl w 12k income have the patience to wait out MOP. :beats-me-man:

also, there are many with fully paid up hdbs bought low.

if they cash out now, they will nab 400-500k in cash and cpf.

will they join the Q for a bto hdb?

[DC33_2008]

I guess it is rather difficult now to bring the private property price down as compared to two years ago unless due to external factors. The price of HDB flats have already gone too far to be brought down. One way is to give more rebates for new hdb buyers.
Middle income grp always aspire to buy pte housing. But the price increase faster than their income, so they are unhappy.. Now govt trying to please them, so govt need to lower pte property prices.. U give them a dream and hope, they give u a vote..

[teddybear]

Middle income group want to buy private properties? They have to be more realistic - they upgrade their income to top 20% then they sure can afford lor. :p
It is not the job of govt to guarantee them affordability/ability to buy private properties. If govt do so, they are just plain stupid! What next? Govt going to make cars easily affordable to them and still make sure road is smooth as silk? Free medical outpatient & hospitalization? Govt need to sponsor all their kids to complete overseas elite university education? What next? Govt to make restaurant food cheap enough for them to eat at restaurant 3 meals a day? There is no end to this for this some small number of greedy people who want more than they can chew! :doh:


Middle income grp always aspire to buy pte housing. But the price increase faster than their income, so they are unhappy.. Now govt trying to please them, so govt need to lower pte property prices.. U give them a dream and hope, they give u a vote..

[kingkong1984]

dont underestimate the intrinsic desire to move to a condominium.

my young colleagues tell me, better to own an MM condo than a big hdb.

and i don't think young ppl w 12k income have the patience to wait out MOP. :beats-me-man:
Be patient, rules changing

[teddybear]

Very funny! By that token, PAP will be booted out of control by 90% of property owners who see decreased/negative property equity while the 10% youngsters who waiting to buy & benefited may not even necessary vote for them for want of more alternate voices! :banghead:


This kind of thing sure got domino effect.. I suspect his first move will be to increase ceiling for public housing, ie bto to 10k and ec, dbss to 12k.. This move will make these housing huat, while mass market condo will kena big time.. After that people see price start dropping, everybody scared also selling their units, causing price correction.. This seems like the perfect next pte property cooling measure..

For resale, to please singaporeans, maybe he will come out with some extra stamp duty for foreigners and PRs.. By doing this, it will reduce the price of resale while at the same time pressure more foreigners and PRs to take up citizenship.. One stone kill 2 birds.. This is the way forward..

[andy]

Minister Khaw Boon Wan famous saying: "No money go JB loh"

The same saying can apply to MND too :doh:

With Khaw replacing MBT as National Development what do you think will be the impact on private properties.

Also do you think there will be a $8 HDB in JB?

[devilplate]

Middle income group want to buy private properties? They have to be more realistic - they upgrade their income to top 20% then they sure can afford lor. :p
It is not the job of govt to guarantee them affordability/ability to buy private properties. If govt do so, they are just plain stupid! What next? Govt going to make cars easily affordable to them and still make sure road is smooth as silk? Free medical outpatient & hospitalization? Govt need to sponsor all their kids to complete overseas elite university education? What next? Govt to make restaurant food cheap enough for them to eat at restaurant 3 meals a day? There is no end to this for this some small number of greedy people who want more than they can chew! :doh:
We r tinking alike

Only argue on ccr/ocr....i believe nxt cycle, i will up ccr stake instead n sing song tgt;)

[devilplate]

This kind of thing sure got domino effect.. I suspect his first move will be to increase ceiling for public housing, ie bto to 10k and ec, dbss to 12k.. This move will make these housing huat, while mass market condo will kena big time.. After that people see price start dropping, everybody scared also selling their units, causing price correction.. This seems like the perfect next pte property cooling measure..

For resale, to please singaporeans, maybe he will come out with some extra stamp duty for foreigners and PRs.. By doing this, it will reduce the price of resale while at the same time pressure more foreigners and PRs to take up citizenship.. One stone kill 2 birds.. This is the way forward..
Y u say ec/dbss huat big time but ocr pte condo kena big time? Dun make sense...:confused:

If ec px goes up, ocr condo will goes up to maintain the 15-20%premium
In fact, now ocr pte condos r threatened by cheap ec like we just discussed under h20thread:D

[irisng]

Middle income grp always aspire to buy pte housing. But the price increase faster than their income, so they are unhappy.. Now govt trying to please them, so govt need to lower pte property prices.. U give them a dream and hope, they give u a vote..

If govt is going to lower the pte ppty prices just to please those middle income group who wants to buy the pte ppty, then how about those people who already had a few pte properties in hand, they will be unhappy with the drop in pty ppty prices also, so is it govt later need to raise the pte ppty prices again to make this group of ppl happy, up down up down, sighhhhh.. no ending.... If the middle income group can't afford, don't buy now, wait for opportunities and save enough cash before going into the pte ppty market.

[sh]

If govt is going to lower the pte ppty prices just to please those middle income group who wants to buy the pte ppty, then how about those people who already had a few pte properties in hand, they will be unhappy with the drop in pty ppty prices also, so is it govt later need to raise the pte ppty prices again to make this group of ppl happy, up down up down, sighhhhh.. no ending.... If the middle income group can't afford, don't buy now, wait for opportunities and save enough cash before going into the pte ppty market.

The govt already knows the proportion of the population with "a few" properties. The number is probably quite low (unlike the proportion in this forum:cool: )

They will rather forgo the votes from this minority, than dent the aspirations of the majority....:(

HOW!!!!!!:tongue3:

[DC33_2008]

One way for them is not to peg to prevailing market rate but lowering it. It is about the way they work out of their sums in the balance sheet for HDB account. They have a choice to show either they make or lose money.
If govt is going to lower the pte ppty prices just to please those middle income group who wants to buy the pte ppty, then how about those people who already had a few pte properties in hand, they will be unhappy with the drop in pty ppty prices also, so is it govt later need to raise the pte ppty prices again to make this group of ppl happy, up down up down, sighhhhh.. no ending.... If the middle income group can't afford, don't buy now, wait for opportunities and save enough cash before going into the pte ppty market.

[ysyap]

Middle income grp always aspire to buy pte housing. But the price increase faster than their income, so they are unhappy.. Now govt trying to please them, so govt need to lower pte property prices.. U give them a dream and hope, they give u a vote..1 month late or 5 years too early... don't think he'll do something like that... he cannot really lower ppty prices coz 99% of Singaporeans stay in a property so lowering it means 99% of Singaporeans will lose, but maybe can maintain or reduce rate of increase.

[sh]

1 month late or 5 years too early... don't think he'll do something like that... he cannot really lower ppty prices coz 99% of Singaporeans stay in a property so lowering it means 99% of Singaporeans will lose, but maybe can maintain or reduce rate of increase.

The aim is keep the price constant, with slow increase. No government wants prices to drop, the impact on the economy will be BAD.....

[ysyap]

One way for them is not to peg to prevailing market rate but lowering it. It is about the way they work out of their sums in the balance sheet for HDB account. They have a choice to show either they make or lose money.HDB account is one big mess! Govt can twist and turn to their need. They always say HDB making huge losses but never account the profits HDB make from HDB loans at good interest rates. With 80% Singaporeans staying in HDB and say some 40% (hypothetical) taking HDB loans, they monopolized the HDB housing loans... this is like 3 banks combined... how not to make money???

[DC33_2008]

We do not want to be like US home price trend.
The aim is keep the price constant, with slow increase. No government wants prices to drop, the impact on the economy will be BAD.....

[irisng]

The govt already knows the proportion of the population with "a few" properties. The number is probably quite low (unlike the proportion in this forum:cool: )

They will rather forgo the votes from this minority, than dent the aspirations of the majority....:(

HOW!!!!!!:tongue3:

Jia lek la!

Okay, maybe the proportion is low for those who have a "few properties", but I think there are quite a proportion of them who already had their own ppty (including HDB owners). This could be outnumbered those ppl who wish to purchase the pte ppty but can't afford because of high prices. So if the pte ppty drops, do you think the HDB prices will drop also?

[irisng]

The aim is keep the price constant, with slow increase. No government wants prices to drop, the impact on the economy will be BAD.....

You are right!

[DC33_2008]

Singapore and its property market is so small. What do you think?
Jia lek la!

Okay, maybe the proportion is low for those who have a "few properties", but I think there are quite a proportion of them who already had their own ppty (including HDB owners). This could be outnumbered those ppl who wish to purchase the pte ppty but can't afford because of high prices. So if the pte ppty drops, do you think the HDB prices will drop also?

[linchong84]

Very funny! By that token, PAP will be booted out of control by 90% of property owners who see decreased/negative property equity while the 10% youngsters who waiting to buy & benefited may not even necessary vote for them for want of more alternate voices! :banghead:


U sala already.. Now is the best time to piss everyone off due to human's poor memory.. The govt sooner or later need to correct the price one, now election over liao, best time to do it.. 2-3 years later market pick up and people start to huat then they will thank the govt and vote them in again..

[irisng]

The aim is keep the price constant, with slow increase. No government wants prices to drop, the impact on the economy will be BAD.....

Yes, you are right! http://forums.condosingapore.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[devilplate]

HDB account is one big mess! Govt can twist and turn to their need. They always say HDB making huge losses but never account the profits HDB make from HDB loans at good interest rates. With 80% Singaporeans staying in HDB and say some 40% (hypothetical) taking HDB loans, they monopolized the HDB housing loans... this is like 3 banks combined... how not to make money???
They lose money due to land valuations by sla

This period, hdb loan making money....but lose money when pte bank loans more den 2.6%

[kingkong1984]

You are right!
How to do that? Keep SSD, built smaller and further and also give more BTO/ DBSS and ECs... Keep the resale MOP of 5 years too.

The secret weapon, SSD for PRs forever!

[DC33_2008]

Do remember that there is any election coming in this year. That is the reason why the formation of a "rational" cabinet.
U sala already.. Now is the best time to piss everyone off due to human's poor memory.. The govt sooner or later need to correct the price one, now election over liao, best time to do it.. 2-3 years later market pick up and people start to huat then they will thank the govt and vote them in again..

[irisng]

Singapore and its property market is so small. What do you think?

I think as times go, the ppty market will go up because of limited land but don't know when, don't know whether I have the chance to see or not.:scared-4:

[DaytonaSS]

This kind of thing sure got domino effect.. I suspect his first move will be to increase ceiling for public housing, ie bto to 10k and ec, dbss to 12k.. This move will make these housing huat, while mass market condo will kena big time.. After that people see price start dropping, everybody scared also selling their units, causing price correction.. This seems like the perfect next pte property cooling measure..
.
I dont really understand what you trying to say.....

If increase income ceiling increases the prices of the BTO type/whichever type of housing prices go up, issnt minister of MND slapping own face? The target is not to increase the price too much, issit this what the Gen Y complaining about?

You are assuming pple whom buy pte condo will flock to HDB cos now they can buy? Personal observation on the 10-12k income range that would love to choose HDB over private housing is not a big % enough to cause a big price correction.

Nowadays pple like to say, "aiya i cant qualify to buy a HDB flat/EC leh"
to add a killing blow , " i m suprise you can still qualify for one"

[ysyap]

They lose money due to land valuations by sla

This period, hdb loan making money....but lose money when pte bank loans more den 2.6%That's the problem... they consider land valuation as money lost when they didn't even pay a single cent for the land in order to sell it... Govt money passes from right hand to left hand still govt money... Can they say they lose money but SLA gains money??? Also, whether pte bank have high or low interest rates, HDB controls majority of the loans so its the volume that speaks louder than the interest rates... low interest rates over a huge volume still translates to ballooning profits... The richest man in China made his billions by selling very cheap stuff but its the volume that gave him the huge profits... hahaha!!!

[DC33_2008]

With the $ getting smaller and inflation over the years, property prices will go up. As you say, limited land will also boost prices up. As asian likes real asset and the demand will boost it further.
I think as times go, the ppty market will go up because of limited land but don't know when, don't know whether I have the chance to see or not.:scared-4:

[devilplate]

I dont really understand what you trying to say.....

If increase income ceiling increases the prices of the BTO type/whichever type of housing prices go up, issnt minister of MND slapping own face? The target is not to increase the price too much, issit this what the Gen Y complaining about?

You are assuming pple whom buy pte condo will flock to HDB cos now they can buy? Personal observation on the 10-12k income range that would love to choose HDB over private housing is not a big % enough to cause a big price correction.

Nowadays pple like to say, "aiya i cant qualify to buy a HDB flat/EC leh"
to add a killing blow , " i m suprise you can still qualify for one"
Raise income ceiling will increase affordibility n leads to px increase...mbt nvr raise ceiling to curb px...its those selfish sandwiched group tat request for it

[devilplate]

That's the problem... they consider land valuation as money lost when they didn't even pay a single cent for the land in order to sell it... Govt money passes from right hand to left hand still govt money... Can they say they lose money but SLA gains money??? Also, whether pte bank have high or low interest rates, HDB controls majority of the loans so its the volume that speaks louder than the interest rates... low interest rates over a huge volume still translates to ballooning profits... The richest man in China made his billions by selling very cheap stuff but its the volume that gave him the huge profits... hahaha!!!
Land valuation is impt...if our land value at let say 200psf now but u build bto flats at zero land cost, u r spending future generation money....its actually mentioned in mbt free ebook:D

[ysyap]

Raise income ceiling will increase affordibility n leads to px increase...mbt nvr raise ceiling to curb px...its those selfish sandwiched group tat request for itNow that MBT got the boot, how will KBW respond? Its anybody's guess but maybe MBT msg him saying u better don't raise income ceiling... :D

[ysyap]

Land valuation is impt...if our land value at let say 200psf now but u build bto flats at zero land cost, u r spending future generation money....its actually mentioned in mbt free ebook:DU can't expect mbt to say yes hdb is actually making a lot of money but we will still keep prices status quo. He must appease the public by saying hdb losing money wat... unless a non PAP statistician steps up and agrees with him, i got nothing to say. I alway take what he says with double pinches of salt... :D

[DaytonaSS]

Raise income ceiling will increase affordibility n leads to px increase...mbt nvr raise ceiling to curb px...its those selfish sandwiched group tat request for it

this part i can understand, when we add additional demand to the already distorted true demand, it could result in price increase if not meet by adequate supply. y i say distorted demand... pls see the next posting.

[DaytonaSS]

this applys to HDB prices

Too much advance buying distorts true demand

Posted by luxuryasiahome (http://lushhomemedia.com/author/luxuryasiahome/) ⋅ May 13, 2011 ⋅ Leave a Comment (http://lushhomemedia.com/2011/05/13/too-much-advance-buying-distorts-true-demand/#respond)

I have always advised potential new home owners or genuine upgraders that their main motivation to buy a property should be based on need and not greed.
Buying in advance slightly ahead or delaying a purchase for a short period of time is alright but not when it is too far from the period of need.
Buying ahead may mean getting married earlier than planned – when there are still issues to be resolved.


At the other end, in delaying a purchase, there may be opportunity costs that are not quantifiable, such as having children, privacy and shorter commuting times.
It was therefore quite worrying that, despite a significant ramping up of Build-To-Order (BTO) launches over the past several quarters to reach new highs in recent years, the demand for new HDB flats has remained as strong as ever.
We continue to read news reports of this or that BTO project being oversubscribed several times. We are told that a significant number are repeat applicants – households that have failed to secure a flat in earlier launches. However, what is disquieting is that there appears to be no discernible trend to show that the underlying subscription rate has come down in any significant way.
Even if the public housing authorities have seriously underestimated demand in previous years, it is inconceivable to think that all this new demand – at multiples of average demand five to six years ago – is simply pent-up demand.


Basic economic theory tells us that when prices go up, demand falls. Yet, in our current situation, more are buying as prices head upwards. The only explanation is that quite a significant proportion of this demand is advance buying – from households who do not anticipate that they need their flats in the short term but are applying to buy now before prices go even higher. The greater the panic, the higher the proportion of advance buying.
Some of us simply cannot understand the panic felt by young couples, especially since the Government has made it clear both by words and deeds that they will increase the number of BTOs if there is demand.
Take a hypothetical young couple who are not even remotely contemplating marriage. But because of advice from other couples and their peers, they apply to buy in advance, just to be on the safe side. They may not worry if their first two applications are rejected. But with the third rejection, they start to feel anxious.
And because they have been monitoring the market closely, they can see prices climbing with each new BTO. When they are rejected the third and fourth time, panic sets in.
Such “panicky” couples are a walking advertisement to all other couples to buy now rather than later. And so the proportion of advance buying snowballs with more of such couples. The news spreads fast among their friends and, as we know, bad news spreads even more quickly. Many young people have told me that even their parents are urging them to apply without delay.
Common sense tells us that we cannot have too high a proportion of advance buying because there will be severe market repercussions down the road, some of which can be pretty unpleasant.
Too much advance buying leaves too little demand in future years. Too much building at about the same time also stretches the capacity of the construction sector and leads to high demand for materials and resources, in turn leading to higher prices. After these units are completed and the minimum five-year occupation period reached, the pool of resale flats will balloon, leading to sharp falls in prices.
To arrest or quell this panic buying, the authorities should consider launching even more BTO projects, maybe twice or even triple the current number, at the same time.
Alternatively, if there are insufficient manpower resources to prepare for so many BTOs to be launched together, the authorities could impose a temporary price freeze – of maybe a year or two. This way, those who are not in urgent need can wait right up to the end of this grace period before applying. This would immediately calm and remove most of the advance buying in the market, leaving just the true current demand.
Like any inflation scourge, this bout of panic buying needs to be stopped quickly before it grows and spirals out of control.

[devilplate]

U can't expect mbt to say yes hdb is actually making a lot of money but we will still keep prices status quo. He must appease the public by saying hdb losing money wat... unless a non PAP statistician steps up and agrees with him, i got nothing to say. I alway take what he says with double pinches of salt... :D
Well it make sense for me...:D

Anyway, nothing wrong to peg bto flats to resale px....unless mop revert bck to 10yrs lor...den px gap can b widen:D

Those 1st timer wants cheap bto n yet super high resale flats....GREED:hell-hath-no-fury:

[DaytonaSS]

U can't expect mbt to say yes hdb is actually making a lot of money but we will still keep prices status quo. He must appease the public by saying hdb losing money wat... unless a non PAP statistician steps up and agrees with him, i got nothing to say. I alway take what he says with double pinches of salt... :D

New "volunteer" on the job now. Lets pray he keeps price stable and provide us with non confusing statements all the time.

[devilplate]

I mentioned smthing similar as advanced buying...

Demand can Vanish or doubled/tripled overnite but supply is relatively fixed...

So if u understand this, u will not blame mbt for not providing enuff to supply:D

[McKinnon]

how else to jumpstart their journey to prosperity?

best is buy at building cost price, and sell at market price.



Well it make sense for me...:D

Anyway, nothing wrong to peg bto flats to resale px....unless mop revert bck to 10yrs lor...den px gap can b widen:D

Those 1st timer wants cheap bto n yet super high resale flats....GREED:hell-hath-no-fury:

[ysyap]

Well it make sense for me...:D

Anyway, nothing wrong to peg bto flats to resale px....unless mop revert bck to 10yrs lor...den px gap can b widen:D

Those 1st timer wants cheap bto n yet super high resale flats....GREED:hell-hath-no-fury:Yes MOP should revert back to 10 years but there'll be great unhappiness for new buyers and the next 2 GEs will still be within this MOP... hahaha! super risky. And yes its greed that dictates the economy, not charity... :scared-4: . Not only 1st timers but also 2nd timers and many timers... multiple property owners and single property owners alike.. sigh!!! :tsk-tsk:

[ysyap]

I mentioned smthing similar as advanced buying...

Demand can Vanish or doubled/tripled overnite but supply is relatively fixed...

So if u understand this, u will not blame mbt for not providing enuff to supply:DHahaha.. i never blame him for not providing enough... its actually prudent and calculated, like many other business. What I cannot tahan is he blame the poeple when he provided too many and then he blame the people again when he provided too little.. he's elected to solve this problem and not blame the people... :spliff:

[linchong84]

Y u say ec/dbss huat big time but ocr pte condo kena big time? Dun make sense...:confused:

If ec px goes up, ocr condo will goes up to maintain the 15-20%premium
In fact, now ocr pte condos r threatened by cheap ec like we just discussed under h20thread:D


Huat as in will have higher demand loh cos now more people qualify to buy ma. 10-12k people are not that rich too, so most of them are HDB upgraders, if you give them the option to now upgrade to an EC instead, they will grab it if they are not into properties flipping. U just imagine, if u just want to upgrade from HDB to condo, will u prefer to pay 750psf to stay in esparina (beside buangkok mrt) or pay 1k psf to stay in h2o (beside lrt)? So what's gonna happen is the mass market condos demand will die down and the price gap betw ec and mass market condo will close further.

[ysyap]

Huat as in will have higher demand loh cos now more people qualify to buy ma. 10-12k people are not that rich too, so most of them are HDB upgraders, if you give them the option to now upgrade to an EC instead, they will grab it if they are not into properties flipping. U just imagine, if u just want to upgrade from HDB to condo, will u prefer to pay 750psf to stay in esparina (beside buangkok mrt) or pay 1k psf to stay in h2o (beside lrt)? So what's gonna happen is the mass market condos demand will die down and the price gap betw ec and mass market condo will close further.The EC craze was reintroduced by MBT last year so now this price gap will probably be reduced if income ceiling is raised... hmmm... very tricky. Private ppty owners will not be happy lor... :p

[DaytonaSS]

I mentioned smthing similar as advanced buying...

Demand can Vanish or doubled/tripled overnite but supply is relatively fixed...

So if u understand this, u will not blame mbt for not providing enuff to supply:D

i strongly agree on this point too. pple can BTO now. But they only suffer minimum lost if they give up the unit before completition. Some bros in the form brought up this point before.

The supply problems seems to stem from housing options for the 1.xm foreigners that is coming here. Higher rents results in higher hdb prices . Higher resale prices then result is higher BTO prices(market pricing). Ranaway BTO prices then result in tons of advance buying.

perhaps a 3 yr MOP will be able to free up some supply for rental market plus a 2 years price freeze will ease some fear and stable the demand.

[linchong84]

I dont really understand what you trying to say.....

If increase income ceiling increases the prices of the BTO type/whichever type of housing prices go up, issnt minister of MND slapping own face? The target is not to increase the price too much, issit this what the Gen Y complaining about?

You are assuming pple whom buy pte condo will flock to HDB cos now they can buy? Personal observation on the 10-12k income range that would love to choose HDB over private housing is not a big % enough to cause a big price correction.

Nowadays pple like to say, "aiya i cant qualify to buy a HDB flat/EC leh"
to add a killing blow , " i m suprise you can still qualify for one"


People are generally complaining about the high resale prices. 110sqm BTOs still avg 350-400k, which is still cheap cheap ma.. So if they at the same time releases more BTOs too, it will pull down price of resale because now more people can buy BTOs, need not resort to buy resale anymore. Somemore HDB can control the BTO prices, they can even choose not to increase the price to make them even more attractive, which will domino still affect resale, DBSS, EC, and eventually pte. Like what i say in earlier post, 10-12k people are not that filthy rich to hold that many properties, most might be just upgraders nia, they can buy EC they happy liao.

[devilplate]

i strongly agree on this point too. pple can BTO now. But they only suffer minimum lost if they give up the unit before completition. Some bros in the form brought up this point before.

The supply problems seems to stem from housing options for the 1.xm foreigners that is coming here. Higher rents results in higher hdb prices . Higher resale prices then result is higher BTO prices(market pricing). Ranaway BTO prices then result in tons of advance buying.

perhaps a 3 yr MOP will be able to free up some supply for rental market plus a 2 years price freeze will ease some fear and stable the demand.
Kids r brought up by kiasu/kiabo parents....so when they grow up, they aso kiabo n advance buying when buying sentiments runs high:hell-hath-no-fury:

Tats y got bubbles....all of us kiasu n kiabo? Lol:D

[ysyap]

People are generally complaining about the high resale prices. 110sqm BTOs still avg 350-400k, which is still cheap cheap ma.. So if they at the same time releases more BTOs too, it will pull down price of resale because now more people can buy BTOs, need not resort to buy resale anymore. Somemore HDB can control the BTO prices, they can even choose not to increase the price to make them even more attractive, which will domino still affect resale, DBSS, EC, and eventually pte. Like what i say in earlier post, 10-12k people are not that filthy rich to hold that many properties, most might be just upgraders nia, they can buy EC they happy liao.As long as govt not willing to build more flats (supply > demand), buyers still have to wait and if that's the case, resale still has its strong appeal. Whether we agree on such a mentality is another issue... :D

[linchong84]

The EC craze was reintroduced by MBT last year so now this price gap will probably be reduced if income ceiling is raised... hmmm... very tricky. Private ppty owners will not be happy lor... :p


Not only pte ppty owners will be unhappy.. Almost all property owners will be unhappy cos their resales are not going to sell well too.. But it's ok because election is over.. The govt can afford to piss everyone off now. By doing that, they will have more 'spaces' 2-3 years later to improve things, so that eventually on the 5th year mark, people are happy.

You guys just think abt it, MBT did not kena the boot for nothing. It means housing market sure got changes, otherwise if not y he need to kena the boot.. This hint is already super obvious liao, cannot live in self-denial anymore.. Even if prices drop, people turn angry, the new guy can just conveniently say 'The previous situation was bad, give us some time to rebuild things', just push all the blame to the old guy loh..

[devilplate]

People are generally complaining about the high resale prices. 110sqm BTOs still avg 350-400k, which is still cheap cheap ma.. So if they at the same time releases more BTOs too, it will pull down price of resale because now more people can buy BTOs, need not resort to buy resale anymore. Somemore HDB can control the BTO prices, they can even choose not to increase the price to make them even more attractive, which will domino still affect resale, DBSS, EC, and eventually pte. Like what i say in earlier post, 10-12k people are not that filthy rich to hold that many properties, most might be just upgraders nia, they can buy EC they happy liao.
Raise ceiling for dbss/ec, developer will bid higher n sell higher:hell-hath-no-fury: :D

Actually we shd pray income ceiling raised higher:D :D :D

[linchong84]

Raise ceiling for dbss/ec, developer will bid higher n sell higher:hell-hath-no-fury: :D

Actually we shd pray income ceiling raised higher:D :D :D


True. But the problem is the new guy might not only raise income ceiling. You never know what kind of other measures he has on his sleeve.

The bad thing right now is the new guy is brought in to stabilise or reduce the price of properties. So, even if prices didn't drop, but it most prob might not go on bull run anymore.. Will the market see more sellers now? Will the market players be more humji now? Anyway a lot of guess works here and there, but one thing confirm is that mbt kena the boot is very bad news for property owners..