View Full Version : Property market sentiments 2011
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bargain hunter
19-02-11, 22:28
i think for newly completed big units 4.50 is indeed tough to get. $4psf maybe but there is a lot of competition. St. Thomas Suites, Trillium are all tripping over themselves looking tenants. there are genuine high floor ardmore II owners asking for 10k negotiable ie <$5psf and negotiable, so long after TOP.
Lumx...
Big unit rental definitely low low.... But 4psf shd b able to achieve rite?
phantom_opera
19-02-11, 22:43
If you believe in Dow theory, transport companies, as represented by Dow Jone Transport Index's, has its earning expectation recovered to pre-Lehman level ... it could mean 2011 will be the turning point for US economy.
Funds are pulling out of emerging market and back to US stocks.:2cents:
And in China, increase of reserve ratio / interest rate with draconian measures will force hot money to shift focus back to Chinese A-share as the next gambling den, Shanghai at 6000 points here I come :cheers1:
If you believe in Dow theory, transport companies, as represented by Dow Jone Transport Index's, has its earning expectation recovered to pre-Lehman level ... it could mean 2011 will be the turning point for US economy.
Funds are pulling out of emerging market and back to US stocks.:2cents:
And in China, increase of reserve ratio / interest rate with draconian measures will force hot money to shift focus back to Chinese A-share as the next gambling den, Shanghai at 6000 points here I come :cheers1:
and when shanghai reaches 6000pts, guess where the profits flow to?
With the 2011 budget announced yesterday, the middle class will have about $200 more in CPF each month. And with lower tax near year, more middle class family will buy into mass market condo?
And don't forget many companies did well last year and will be giving fat bonus to their employees this year. :D
rattydrama
20-02-11, 06:53
ECs were only re-introduced in 2010. none would be completing in 2012 or even 2013. so the number excludes ECs for sure.
Thanks but even so the report is pretty worrying cos demand may not been able to absorb the over supply.
"potential primary supply (potential new launches and
unsold units in launched projects) of 22,847 units and a potential secondary supply of 24,670 units could be in.
annual average take-up of 9,540 units for the primary
market and 14,124 units for the secondary market over the past 10 years,
especially after taking into account the recently imposed 60% cap on loan-to-value"
So it's 37k of supply vs 24k demand. What will happen to 13k supply? Price hold, drop or increase?
Why FEO is giving furniture discount this time? Any upcoming new project launch?
(LTV) limits for the second home mortgage onwards.
rattydrama
20-02-11, 06:56
And don't forget many companies did well last year and will be giving fat bonus to their employees this year. :D
I suppose the buying mood is still good in 2011 after the bull run last 2 years but for 2012 it's really hard to tell
Maybe most will want to keep more cash after committing to 2 or more
Housing loan. The mentality of those with 2 or more loans will be different. They tend to be price and district sensitive and are more critical in their selection. :spliff:
Think you bought the wrong estate. RV is a long stretch and there many cannot make it ones. In good estates, can get $6+ psf.
from URA data, very very few above $6psf. can count in 1 hand. at current prices, gross yield also 3.5% approx.
With the 2011 budget announced yesterday, the middle class will have about $200 more in CPF each month. And with lower tax near year, more middle class family will buy into mass market condo?
And don't forget many companies did well last year and will be giving fat bonus to their employees this year. :D
good luck to them in next recession if they are depending on those.
no more fat bonus
lower employer CPF contribution.
or worse still, no more jobs.
good luck to them in next recession if they are depending on those.
no more fat bonus
lower employer CPF contribution.
or worse still, no more jobs.
There is always risks in every investment. Recession will sure to come one day, fat bonus will will gone, CPF maybe cut and job maybe lost. But no one know when. If this is only happen 3 yrs later, who knows how the price will run until it hits the market? And if as an employee is worry about committing home loan at their 30s worry about recession and lost job, what makes him think he will be in a better position to do it when he is in his 40s?
Gross yield of 3.5% rental isn't it definitely better than 1% property loan?
assuming gain 2% pa, and if your property is worth $4m, that means you profit $80k per year just by borrowing! Assuming your cash outlay is 20% and 80% loan, you net return is 10% of cash outlay per year (even without capital gain). The bigger and more expensive your property, the more you profit. :cheers1:
from URA data, very very few above $6psf. can count in 1 hand. at current prices, gross yield also 3.5% approx.
Gross yield of 3.5% rental isn't it definitely better than 1% property loan?
assuming gain 2% pa, and if your property is worth $4m, that means you profit $80k per year just by borrowing! Assuming your cash outlay is 20% and 80% loan, you net return is 10% of cash outlay per year (even without capital gain). The bigger and more expensive your property, the more you profit. :cheers1:
yup. that's my calculation too.
However given the rental conditions and my personal belief that recession is coming in 2013-2015, I started to offload condos 1 year earlier than planned (as in 2012). Hopefully will find more optimistic fellows for my remaining units.
Given that CCR projects start to TOP together 2010-2011 and it is tough for rental (from personal experience). I am wondering whether OCR projects will suffer a similar fate when they TOP together in 2012-2013.
There is always risks in every investment. Recession will sure to come one day, fat bonus will will gone, CPF maybe cut and job maybe lost. But no one know when. If this is only happen 3 yrs later, who knows how the price will run until it hits the market? And if as an employee is worry about committing home loan at their 30s worry about recession and lost job, what makes him think he will be in a better position to do it when he is in his 40s?
you do have a point. That's why have to study market properly.
Timing and location. those who bought in early 2009 will still be in the money when next recession as they bought at bottom of the market. for those who bought in 2011, better pray.
Everything is tied to Singapore and globally economy. US and EU seems to be recovering, and with fleeting of funds out of middle-east, Singapore will be great beneficiaries!
If what you said about recession in 2013 is true, then SG govt's policy with providing so much supply of land & hence properties going to TOP in 2013 is setting the stage for the great crash with oversupply of properties and significantly reduced demand due to poor economy? I believe they have data to indicate that there are demand for so many units by then and economy good enough to create demand to soap up these large supply? :cheers1:
yup. that's my calculation too.
However given the rental conditions and my personal belief that recession is coming in 2013-2015, I started to offload condos 1 year earlier than planned (as in 2012). Hopefully will find more optimistic fellows for my remaining units.
Given that CCR projects start to TOP together 2010-2011 and it is tough for rental (from personal experience). I am wondering whether OCR projects will suffer a similar fate when they TOP together in 2012-2013.
I believe the government has miscalculated the 2nd time in 2010 when they promised to release more land in 2011 under GLS & drastically reduce the number of immigrants, possibly under the pressure of the coming election. Government can only control the HDB/DBSS/EC supply directly. But the developers went to the existing private properties to enbloc to churn out more new properties.
Rest assured more immigrants will come after the GE ;) what demand problem ? :D :D
Seriously,we have our own baby boomers now. This generation had not have any real hard life, and are much more willing to take risk. I see SG condo population ballooning to 30% soon.
rattydrama
20-02-11, 10:04
Everything is tied to Singapore and globally economy. US and EU seems to be recovering, and with fleeting of funds out of middle-east, Singapore will be great beneficiaries!
If what you said about recession in 2013 is true, then SG govt's policy with providing so much supply of land & hence properties going to TOP in 2013 is setting the stage for the great crash with oversupply of properties and significantly reduced demand due to poor economy? I believe they have data to indicate that there are demand for so many units by then and economy good enough to create demand to soap up these large supply? :cheers1:
I would like to belief in that too but I hope that there is no mis-calculation or poor judgement by these million dollars policy makers. If there is, CCR or OCR wont be spared.
you do have a point. That's why have to study market properly.
Timing and location. those who bought in early 2009 will still be in the money when next recession as they bought at bottom of the market. for those who bought in 2011, better pray.
I definitely agree that study the market is crucial. But trying to time the market could well by itself a risk.
I would think one should time/judge it own financial ability now and the next few years when trying to enter property market. There is higher chance 1 can pull through a property price correction with his financial ability intact than buy the property at the lower price but lost his financial ability later. And for most of employees, older only mean higher risk in sustaining his financial ability - in Singapore context.
But if one is cash rich investor then the above does not apply.
I like to post a qn to bros here. What other instruments is best used to preserve wealth than property in Singapore context? Taking into consideration INFLATION that is hitting the WORLD in a big way.
Food inflation if i rem correctly hit the world at ard 14-15% last year.... We might not feel it so much here yet cos our currency grew relatively higher to cushion the impact.
If one is holding $500k cash, what other way is better to preserve it? IMHO property will be the preferred choice.
Regulators
20-02-11, 13:45
a bit unconventional but you can consider buying art if you have lots of money. Go for artists like affandi, gunarsa and those up and coming china contemporary artists. Their artworks will be as valuable as a picasso someday
I like to post a qn to bros here. What other instruments is best used to preserve wealth than property in Singapore context? Taking into consideration INFLATION that is hitting the WORLD in a big way.
Food inflation if i rem correctly hit the world at ard 14-15% last year.... We might not feel it so much here yet cos our currency grew relatively higher to cushion the impact.
If one is holding $500k cash, what other way is better to preserve it? IMHO property will be the preferred choice.
Rest assured more immigrants will come after the GE ;) what demand problem ? :D :D
Seriously,we have our own baby boomers now. This generation had not have any real hard life, and are much more willing to take risk. I see SG condo population ballooning to 30% soon.
Everybody forgot about oversupply in 2003?
I am thinking 2013-2015 would be a repeat of those times. Then pray for repeat of the boom in 2016-2017.
a bit unconventional but you can consider buying art if you have lots of money. Go for artists like affandi, gunarsa and those up and coming china contemporary artists. Their artworks will be as valuable as a picasso someday
Haha, best to buy the artworks and hope they passed away early. No more production of new pieces and the remaining pieces will go up.
But really, do you think banks will loan specuvestors for artworks.
With inflation expected to be 3-4%. I would say its not over optimistic to expect 7-8% increase in property prices this year? Where better place to put your money?
I like to post a qn to bros here. What other instruments is best used to preserve wealth than property in Singapore context? Taking into consideration INFLATION that is hitting the WORLD in a big way.
Food inflation if i rem correctly hit the world at ard 14-15% last year.... We might not feel it so much here yet cos our currency grew relatively higher to cushion the impact.
If one is holding $500k cash, what other way is better to preserve it? IMHO property will be the preferred choice.
phantom_opera
21-02-11, 08:10
With inflation expected to be 3-4%. I would say its not over optimistic to expect 7-8% increase in property prices this year? Where better place to put your money?
In the 1st place, do you know how inflation is measure by our government (the method varies from time to time of course). With UK inflation at 3.75%, u think our 3-4% is realistic?
Read the following from our CPI report:
The consumer price index in December 2010 rose by 0.2 per cent compared with
November 2010 as a result of higher costs of transport, food, as well as “recreation & others”.
The cost of transport increased by 2.6 per cent owing to higher prices of cars and petrol. Food
prices went up by 0.2 per cent due mainly to higher cost of prepared meals. Higher holiday
travel cost raised the index for “recreation & others” by 0.3 per cent. In contrast, housing cost
declined by 1.1 per cent, on account of lower service & conservancy charges (S&CC) as
rebates for S&CC were given in December 2010 but not in November 2010. ...
Is "prepared meal" hawker centre food or fast food or restaurants? I was having wanton noodle in Eastwood hawker centre, shocked by the tiny little plate of noodle, char siew given with 3 tiny wantons for $3, end up I ordered another plate of carrot cake for another $3, lunch for $6 under hot sun excluding drinks :doh: .
Why S&CC rebate help to lower housing cost?!
How much transport cost linked to MRT/bus fare? Remember fare review is put on hold due to coming election !!!
Geylang OKT
21-02-11, 08:34
Honest mistake, let's move on :D
In the 1st place, do you know how inflation is measure by our government (the method varies from time to time of course). With UK inflation at 3.75%, u think our 3-4% is realistic?
..............
you missed the geas of AK47 post.
if inflation 3-4%, property up by 7-8%.
if you think inflation is going to be 5%, property up by how much? 10%?
phantom_opera
21-02-11, 09:00
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Investors will continue to ride the speediest rally in U.S. stocks since the Great Depression despite growing concerns that the market is overbought and due for a correction.
Wall Street posted its third consecutive week of gains with the S&P 500 now up 6.8 percent for the year and more than 20 percent in just six months.
"I've never seen a market like this," said Paul Mendelsohn, chief investment strategist at Windham Financial Services in Charlotte, Vermont, a market watcher for 35 years.
"I'm showing, by every technical and quantitative standard I have, this market is at extreme levels. But no matter where we start out in the morning, buyers come in."
The trend of stocks starting off lower in the morning session but ending higher by the afternoon has been ongoing for weeks as investors view the small dips as reasons to buy.
=> Does the market know something that we don't?? Unemployment drops to 8% coming months??
In stock market, even if the index drops, there are still money marking opportunities if you are fast and smart enough to catch the rise and fall. In addition, the amount required is lesser so people are more willing to risk. In property, due to the large quantum, one wrong move will wipe you out financially for life.
Does RV owners feel that rental and rental yield is not as good as before?
I remember that during the peak of 2007. Melrose Park condo can get $9000/month for a 1500sf unit. Now lucky to get $7000. However the value of this condo has risen more than $150psf above peak in 2007, pull up by nearby recently completed condos.
Given my own experience, (big unit cannot achieve rental 4.5psf), it looks like there is rental weakness in RV area although price in general has increased to an average of 2000psf.
Based on URA rental index.
Rent are still 10% below the last peak in 08.
While property prices have gone up by 30% for mass and mid segment since 08 peak. A bit of bubble here i suppose.
Based on URA rental index.
We are about 10% below the last peak in 08.
where to get URA rental index? thanks in advance.
I know from URA reports, have rental index. but in graphical form?
"I've never seen a market like this,"
because, there is NEVER a market like this. With Fed massively supplying US$ in the market, and China willingly taking them all. Conventional economics does not make sense here. Every one is cash rich, and every one knows he can borrow USD at 0. Asset inflation is inevitable. Gold bubble is inevitable too. (yes I dun believe in gold. I believe it's as big a bubble as property. enter at your risk. profit from it before everyone else and run quickly)
Everybody forgot about oversupply in 2003?
I am thinking 2013-2015 would be a repeat of those times. Then pray for repeat of the boom in 2016-2017.
For OCR, plenty of supplies no doubt. CCR, not much new projects. DLeedon single handedly increase the supply by 10%, that's abt it. (and that project is borderline CCR) There is no real difference between 2007 and now for CCR situation.
I believe the real reason for the current pty boom is never abt the supply. It's all abt the liquidity. As long as the current weird interest rate environment stays, pty market will still run.
Have you ever seen a "high inflation" environment with interest rate == 0 ? Today SOR 1M fixing is 0.05% !
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2010/pr10-123a4.pdf
where to get URA rental index? thanks in advance.
I know from URA reports, have rental index. but in graphical form?
stalingrad
21-02-11, 13:17
because, there is NEVER a market like this. With Fed massively supplying US$ in the market, and China willingly taking them all. Conventional economics does not make sense here. Every one is cash rich, and every one knows he can borrow USD at 0. Asset inflation is inevitable. Gold bubble is inevitable too. (yes I dun believe in gold. I believe it's as big a bubble as property. enter at your risk. profit from it before everyone else and run quickly)
For OCR, plenty of supplies no doubt. CCR, not much new projects. DLeedon single handedly increase the supply by 10%, that's abt it. (and that project is borderline CCR) There is no real difference between 2007 and now for CCR situation.
I believe the real reason for the current pty boom is never abt the supply. It's all abt the liquidity. As long as the current weird interest rate environment stays, pty market will still run.
Have you ever seen a "high inflation" environment with interest rate == 0 ? Today SOR 1M fixing is 0.05% !
precisely. I don't know any periods in time in the past where inflation was as high as it is today but interest rates were as low as they are today. Instead of all these cooling measures, shouldn't the government raise the exchange rate of the Sin Dollar so that interest rates would rise to deflate the property bubble? Inflation would vanish if we just raise the sin dollar exchange rate sufficiently.
phantom_opera
21-02-11, 13:24
Everybody looks at China as the factory of the world, if yuan up 1%, our currency up 1%, if China holds, we hold. But China can hike reserve ratio n interest rate, we can't lol
Silver futures for March delivery rose 94.1 cents, or 3.1 percent, to close at $31.57 an ounce on the Comex in New York. After the settlement, the metal reached $31.79, the highest since March 1980. The price has almost doubled in the past year.
Cotton topped $2 a pound for the first time ever as accelerating global growth boosted demand for garments manufactured in China, the world’s biggest fiber consumer and importer, amid shrinking supplies.
shouldn't the government raise the exchange rate of the Sin Dollar so that interest rates would rise to deflate the property bubble? Inflation would vanish if we just raise the sin dollar exchange rate sufficiently.
because we can't, as the export industry will be hit hard, and that's a much bigger problem than pty bubble. a large portion of the economy is affected, and will have chain reaction. pty bubble, well , actually helps to create a lot of jobs and consumption. just that no one wants a bubble. So it's ok to let the market be buoyant a bit.
there are plenty of draconian measures available to stop the pty market if the gov wishes. no need to involve S$. For example like china, simply stop ppl buying 3rd (or 2nd:scared-5: ) pty will immediately put a break.
(SG is not so creative yet as in HK in playing around the rules. ;) )
stalingrad
21-02-11, 13:41
because we can't, as the export industry will be hit hard, and that's a much bigger problem than pty bubble. a large portion of the economy is affected, and will have chain reaction. pty bubble, well , actually helps to create a lot of jobs and consumption. just that no one wants a bubble. So it's ok to let the market be buoyant a bit.
there are plenty of draconian measures available to stop the pty market if the gov wishes. no need to involve S$. For example like china, simply stop ppl buying 3rd (or 2nd:scared-5: ) pty will immediately put a break.
(SG is not so creative yet as in HK in playing around the rules. ;) )
all the three countries you mentioned, china, singapore and hong Kong, are all guilty of putting economic growth ahead of fighting inflation. there will be prices to pay in the future. Inflation, once entrenched in expectations, will be very hard to get rid off.
Many VIPs in Singapore own multiple properties. They won't kill themselves or their own kind by restricting multiple properties.
Not being an economist, is it a no brainer to buy property in times of high inflation and low interest rates?
Geylang OKT
21-02-11, 21:16
I always thought high inflation rates would also mean sky high interest rates as well. :D
Am I missing something here? :confused:
I always thought high inflation rates would also mean sky high interest rates as well. :D
Am I missing something here? :confused:
except that uncle sam feels core inflation is still tame and manageable.
Geylang OKT
21-02-11, 22:25
High inflation means property prices will hold up as well? Me neutral on property at the moment :D
High inflation means property prices will hold up as well? Me neutral on property at the moment :D
i thought you were bearish? you upgraded your call to neutral?
devilplate
21-02-11, 23:28
this is getting scary when bearish turn bullish during a bull run....:scared-3:
this is getting scary when bearish turn bullish during a bull run....:scared-3:
technically he's neutral, not bullish yet.
devilplate
21-02-11, 23:34
technically he's neutral, not bullish yet.
i mean the general market......
imagine those bearish all this while and start to turn bullish....cud be a sign of market peaking:scared-5:
Are they bullish yet? The velocity of transactions is still so slow, probably cos they are concerned the next round of cooling measure, if there is one, might take LTV to 50%.
Regulators
22-02-11, 00:14
i was at the the showflat of Parvis (holland Hill) last time and an agent told me a few MPs bought penthouses there :eek: . Asked him who the MPs were and he refused to tell me
Many VIPs in Singapore own multiple properties. They won't kill themselves or their own kind by restricting multiple properties.
devilplate
22-02-11, 00:17
Are they bullish yet? The velocity of transactions is still so slow, probably cos they are concerned the next round of cooling measure, if there is one, might take LTV to 50%.
gd sign of indicator....hehe
so for now turn to neutral only....very soon lor....haha
Condo Kaiser
22-02-11, 02:38
I feel the govt has no real need to impose more measures to curb demand or increase supply in the near term.
At least not before the last few rounds of measures fully work their way through the system.
The fact that transaction volume has greatly decreased signifies that the measures has taken effect and as more units get completed, and monetery tightening (interest rate hikes) kick in, property speculator with limited holding power will be weeded out.
That is all that the govt intend to do. Consider if even with measures and interest rate hike, property owners (occupier/investor/speculator) are able to hold on to thier pants and keep up with payments, then it must indicate that the system is well supported by real income and wealth instead of a bubble.
On the other hand, if expat in-flow slows significantly coupled with higher interest, real rental yield will trend towards negative, people with no holding power will have no choice but to sell or rent below market rate and hold out for a recovery. They may choose to bleed 500 a month for the next 1-2 years than to realise 200k lost immediately.
The real concern is if in the next couple of months both developers and buyers continue their crazy pursuit of land/units, govt will have no choice but to again step in and impose more measures. In my opinion that will be the least favourable outcome. If there's anyone out there hoping for further record prices or an avalanche of "fire sale". My advice is look else where as from how I see it, prices will trend sideways with thin volume.
Geylang OKT
22-02-11, 05:15
gd sign of indicator....hehe
so for now turn to neutral only....very soon lor....haha
Actually from bullish to neutral is more like it :D
phantom_opera
22-02-11, 08:05
I think the doubling of foreign levy is ill-timed when service sector is already thinking of increasing prices .... this is a perfect excuse ... not every company can or are willing to improve productivity
As for construction industry ... big developers like CDL / Capital land must give face to government .... at least they must show effort to increase productivity, that does not mean construction cost will not go up in the short term
i was at the the showflat of Parvis (holland Hill) last time and an agent told me a few MPs bought penthouses there :eek: . Asked him who the MPs were and he refused to tell me
knn MP bought after measure at lower price :simmering: :simmering: must have inside info!!
devilplate
22-02-11, 08:42
power pack silver! can hit 40 soon?
Wild Falcon
22-02-11, 09:50
Luxury homes nowadays sold as "time share"? Can meh? Isn't time-share like hotel with different people moving in and out?
=====
Luxury property fund eyes S’pore apartments
Luxury property fund The Hideaways Club is here to look out for high-end apartments for its new timeshare property portfolio, called The Hideaways Club – City Collection.
Founder of The Hideaways Club, Mr Mike Balfour, was here just last week to review a range of Singapore luxury properties.Relying on his team of property hunters, he has his eye on a few choice high-end units here.
But it will unlikely be the pricey units at developments such as Ritz-Carlton Residences or the Orchard Residences, which have seen transactions at more than S$4,000 per sq ft recently.
Instead, he is looking for high-end properties which offer value for money, rather than a luxury brand-name attached to it. “If these homes have a brand-name to it, they usually command a premium. And we would like to maintain our profit margins,” he said.
Mr Balfour, who is also the founder of the Fitness First chain of gyms, said he plans to make Asia a key revenue generator for his City Collection’s property portfolio. He said 25 to 30 per cent of the City Collection’s properties will be located in Asia. “Other major cities we are looking at are Kuala Lumpur and Hanoi,” he added.
With the City Collection, he hopes to replicate the success of his first fund called The Hideaways Club Classic Collection. Launched in 2007, the Classic Collection comprises 50 villas in holiday destinations all over the world, with each 2,700-sq-ft villa costing an average of US$1.6 million (S$2.03 million).
It was started to offer investors another way to enjoy a luxury holiday, without owning an actual holiday home and doing away with the hassle of maintenance.
The fund offers members an equity share in the property portfolio, which has a current membership of more than 200 members.
It is now the largest luxury timeshare club in Europe and Mr Balfour is targeting a maximum of 600 members and 100 properties for the fund in the next four years.
For The City Collection, each member invests a lump sum of US$195,000 and pays an annual maintenance, taxes and concierge fees of US$18,500.
Each member gets about 12 to 23 nights of holiday stay a year in one of the fund’s apartments. This would otherwise cost the member between US$1.2 million to US$3 million a year, said Mr Balfour.
In addition to savings, the investor reaps 5 to 6 per cent of capital appreciation from the luxury apartment portfolio annually.
Mr Balfour said he is targeting 120 city apartments in the next three years for The City Collection.
Each apartment is sized between 1,500 and 3,000 sq ft, and are typically two-bedroom and two-bathroom units in the city centre in major cities across the world.
devilplate
22-02-11, 09:55
wah....now more ppl can so call own luxury prime CCR condos liao....i owned a small part of the toilet at xxx project in orchard rd...LOL
I think the doubling of foreign levy is ill-timed when service sector is already thinking of increasing prices .... this is a perfect excuse ... not every company can or are willing to improve productivity
As for construction industry ... big developers like CDL / Capital land must give face to government .... at least they must show effort to increase productivity, that does not mean construction cost will not go up in the short term
All this would mean things will become more expensive and something, somewhere has gotta give...
a) Greater construction cost
- if developer passes cost to consumer -> will loose out on competitiveness and people may not buy
- if absorb the cost -> lower profit margin (shareholders kao be)
Only solution would be to revolutionize the industry
- prefabrication in factories (using machines instead of workers building on site)
- automation etc.. (use automated signaling system instead of two Bangalas holding the stop/go sign at the road side)
b) Service industry
- Hire less cleaners, waiters etc.. eg. would be budget eateries in Japan where diners order on some computerized platform, make payment, and return their trays.
I think, although a bitter pill to swallow, especially for SMEs, this sends a clear message that our economy, industries need to progress and reduce its' the reliance on cheap foreign labour.
devilplate
22-02-11, 10:06
All this would mean things will become more expensive and something, somewhere has gotta give...
a) Greater construction cost
- if developer passes cost to consumer -> will loose out on competitiveness and people may not buy
- if absorb the cost -> lower profit margin (shareholders kao be)
Only solution would be to revolutionize the industry
- prefabrication in factories (using machines instead of workers building on site)
- automation etc.. (use automated signaling system instead of two Bangalas holding the stop/go sign at the road side)
b) Service industry
- Hire less cleaners, waiters etc.. eg. would be budget eateries in Japan where diners order on some computerized platform, make payment, and return their trays.
I think, although a bitter pill to swallow, especially for SMEs, this sends a clear message that our economy, industries need to progress and reduce its' the reliance on cheap foreign labour.
cool...:cheers6:
but if it doesnt work, den ppl can say govt taxX3 and leads to inflation liao..:D
phantom_opera
22-02-11, 10:10
Correction in Asian stock market is close to 10% now (STI from 3,300 to 3,000) ... should see support soon.
Heard My Manhattan managed to sell 100+ units already
devilplate
22-02-11, 10:12
Correction in Asian stock market is close to 10% now (STI from 3,300 to 3,000) ... should see support soon.
Heard My Manhattan managed to sell 100+ units already
wow 100+ units....tats amazing!
phantom_opera
22-02-11, 10:21
how is sales in Flamingo Valley, very tempted but ghostly feeling remains :eek:
what is the meaning of hot....read this..what happens in HK now....Kowloon station
華匯置業組別經理李偉豪表示，部份內地客得悉全城盤源短缺，入市態度積極，甚至不惜追價與港人搶貨。擎天半島 1座中層 A室， 1440方呎，即使業主反價 50萬元至 2250萬元，內地客仍照追購入，呎價 15625元。同區天璽月鑽璽中層 C室， 1370方呎，業主開價 3300萬元，內地客沒有還價便購入。
Condo Kaiser
22-02-11, 11:44
China buyers are crazy. Most of them have so much cash which cannot be deposited into the bank that they are really desperate to get rid of them. Recently I read some article of a corrupt official was arrested and agents found 7 safes in his house stuffed with gold bars, and he is just some small timer in a small province :eek: Instead of spending it, it is obviously much better to buy into prime property which in all likelyhood will help to preserve a large chunk of its value.
Most of the buyers from china has funds coming from undisclosed sources and the only reason they buy into HK is the ease of physically trasporting the cash over. They cannot afford to leave behind a paper trail. Plus the proximity makes it easier for them to understand the markets.
Once more and more publicity are made with Singapore luxury properties, you will see them pouring their money over seeking safe heaven. The only problem is how to get the cash over here without raising red flags back home.
devilplate
22-02-11, 11:47
The only problem is how to get the cash over here without raising red flags back home.
this is the biggest problem oredi.....if not SG CCR oredi soar high high?
i seldom shop branded stuff....and was shocked to see ppl(assuming from china) queuing up outside prada, lv to go in to buyX3! location: wynn macau
Middle east crisis to cause plunge in stocks and eventually plunge in property prices? :beats-me-man:
phantom_opera
22-02-11, 14:12
Middle east crisis to cause plunge in stocks and eventually plunge in property prices? :beats-me-man:
Bull market climbs a wall of true worries. Bear market dives repeatedly in false hopes.
how is sales in Flamingo Valley, very tempted but ghostly feeling remains :eek:
Somehow, the sunken land and cemetry beside it feels like very bad fengshui.
If you notice some of the blocks are built on steep slope....wait one fine day kena the once in 50 years kind of mega rain then will get mudslide....:scared-3:
Correction in Asian stock market is close to 10% now (STI from 3,300 to 3,000) ... should see support soon.
Heard My Manhattan managed to sell 100+ units already
today's paper reported only achieved almost 50% of 150 units launched.
Middle east crisis to cause plunge in stocks and eventually plunge in property prices? :beats-me-man:
Most affected are somewhat autocratic regimes in pariah states (Libya, Syria....), modest oil producers (Libya). The only concern was Egypt which houses the Suez cannal but the military is in firm control of the country.
The drop in stock market likely just a reaction, if brave enough can go in now for quick gains.
Alan Shearer
22-02-11, 21:17
Oil is a major concern.:scared-4:
Stocks will depreciate as oil price rises.:hell-hath-no-fury:
Singapore property is gold!!!!!:2cents:
Geylang OKT
22-02-11, 21:22
Oil is a major concern.:scared-4:
Stocks will depreciate as oil price rises.:hell-hath-no-fury:
Singapore property is gold!!!!!:2cents:
fool's gold or real gold? :D
richwang, do you still collect the number of postings per day?
i feel the forum is getting quiter, an indication that market is cooling down?
richwang, do you still collect the number of postings per day?
i feel the forum is getting quiter, an indication that market is cooling down?
Agreed. Less postings lately. In most regions, only two to three threads are active for any given days.
Agreed. Less postings lately. In most regions, only two to three threads are active for any given days.
Maybe a lot scare kana shot ma
proud owner
23-02-11, 10:50
Maybe a lot scare kana shot ma
maybe alot scare their holdings kana shot
looks 2000psf is the standard for new River Valley condos, be it Rivergate, Cosmopolitan, Trillium, Latitude, The Pier etc.
What do you think of Cosmopolitan and Trillium? just side by side and in front of Great World.
Which one should be offload first?
I have no problem about you shooting either one or both ;).
phantom_opera
23-02-11, 13:36
Singapore Jan CPI up 5.5 pct yr/yr, two-year high
On Wednesday 23 February 2011, 13:02 SGT
* Jan CPI up 5.5 pct y/y vs 4.65 pct Reuters f/cast
* Jan CPI up 1.3 pct m/m s/adj vs 0.6 pct f/cast
CONTEXT:
- The year-on-year increase was mainly due to higher prices of cars and petrol, housing and food, the department said. The number was the highest annual increase for any month since the 5.5 percent rise in December 2008. Prior to that, the highest annual increase was 6.4 percent in October 2008.
- Similarly, the month-on-month rise reflected higher costs of transport, housing and food, the department said.
- Last week, the central bank raised its 2011 inflation forecast to 3-4 percent from the previous 2-3 percent, but said its view of underlying price pressures had not changed much since its last policy review in October.
- "As monetary policy works with some lag, the previous policy moves in April and October last year will continue to have a restraining effect on growth and inflation over the course of 2011," MAS Deputy Managing Director Ong Chong Tee said.
- The CPI rose by 2.8 percent for the whole of 2010.
- The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS), the central bank, said inflation could reach 5-6 percent in the months ahead before moderating in the latter part of the year.
STI dropped below 3k points! :p
phantom_opera
23-02-11, 14:40
STI dropped below 3k points! :p
10% correction achieved. Buy.
bargain hunter
23-02-11, 16:21
rental yield higher for cosmo rite?
looks 2000psf is the standard for new River Valley condos, be it Rivergate, Cosmopolitan, Trillium, Latitude, The Pier etc.
What do you think of Cosmopolitan and Trillium? just side by side and in front of Great World.
Which one should be offload first?
I have no problem about you shooting either one or both ;).
i am not familiar with the market. however relative quoted sources as saying the market selldown is mainly due to flight of funds back to US, due to the upturn there. then with the middle east uprising, market is doubly whacked.
no doubt the funds will come back, but when?
buy now only if can afford to hold through any further correction.
10% correction achieved. Buy.
rattydrama
23-02-11, 18:24
I think the doubling of foreign levy is ill-timed when service sector is already thinking of increasing prices .... this is a perfect excuse ... not every company can or are willing to improve productivity
As for construction industry ... big developers like CDL / Capital land must give face to government .... at least they must show effort to increase productivity, that does not mean construction cost will not go up in the short term
The land cost has to come down else the property price will maintain or shot up again. :cool:
With reduced manpower, more machines (capital investment) to be use. Well, not many construction company has the financial strength or they may just think short term. Hence will continue to pay more levy until one day call it quit. Hence manpower cost set to increase.
Our Singapore construction company is still in the primitive stage. Perhaps the bosses need to improve/upgrade their knowledge on advanced construction skills than we can talk about improving the worker's skill.
rattydrama
23-02-11, 18:27
i am not familiar with the market. however relative quoted sources as saying the market selldown is mainly due to flight of funds back to US, due to the upturn there. then with the middle east uprising, market is doubly whacked.
no doubt the funds will come back, but when?
buy now only if can afford to hold through any further correction.
My office reported China market 28% growth and India 39% growth last year, the rest, single digit growth and as for SG, 2.5% growth. So rising asia! What has come down will go up again, in particular, in this part of the world.
10% correction achieved. Buy.
Yes I did.
I'm buying the Asian story.
Regulators
23-02-11, 18:43
Prices may correct further tomorrow.
Yes I did.
I'm buying the Asian story.
Prices may correct further tomorrow.
I'll buy some more :D
The Great Singapore Sales VVIP preview haa haa.... :rolleyes:
I'll buy some more :D
Buy blue chips, some still good. Think Dow may rebounce from last nite 178 pts drop soon, so could be a knee jerk reaction. But buy and be prepared to hold.
10% correction achieved. Buy.
buy as in STI index futures?
Geylang OKT
23-02-11, 21:44
10% correction achieved. Buy.
Cheong! :D
Geylang OKT
23-02-11, 21:45
Maybe a lot scare kana shot ma
Speak without fear or favour :D
Regulators
23-02-11, 22:02
tomorrow and friday good for trading. blue chips can hold longer.
I'll buy some more :D
devilplate
24-02-11, 00:09
Buy blue chips, some still good. Think Dow may rebounce from last nite 178 pts drop soon, so could be a knee jerk reaction. But buy and be prepared to hold.
buy oil related stocks and sti etf:D
tinking of tiger....or jus drink tiger? lol:D
rattydrama
24-02-11, 06:11
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Property/Story/A1Story20110215-263604.html
Speak without fear or favour :D
yup, where got shot down. nobody shoot down Cosmopolitan and/or Trillium.
These are superior condos in great location, so no chance for people to shoot :cool:
I've my reservation for these two projects.:D
yup, where got shot down. nobody shoot down Cosmopolitan and/or Trillium.
These are superior condos in great location, so no chance for people to shoot :cool:
I've my reservation for these two projects.:D
care to make ur reservations public?
Don't worry, these 2 being a CCR condo, Stalingrad, Regulators won't oppose you. In fact, i hope they join you in shooting down these 2 CCR condos, in traditional prime areas somemore :)
Afterall my perspective is different from singaporeans' perspective or tenants perspective. Hopefully I can have new perspectives by the end of criticisms.
phantom_opera
24-02-11, 08:39
High chance Obama will send troops into Libya if oil hit 150USD :hell-hath-no-fury: Another operation desert storm ... much easier than Iraq this time, US will again asks NATO to send troops :rolleyes:
Little chance that Saudi / Iran will have massive unrest as middle class in those countries are relatively well-off.
This Middle East incident may delay US interest hike by another 1 year :2cents:
Read this book about Tamerlane.
Controlling rebellious population was much easier then. Put them all to the sword.
Anyway, this would be a good time for a popular demagogue to set up a caliphate. Egypt should send army across the borders in support of rebellion in Libya. Once done, can push eastwards to the smaller countries
If that happens, would buy oil, gold and silver futures.
Wild Falcon
24-02-11, 09:28
No one is interested. If there is little discussion on a project, it means interest level is low. Also, the person who likes to attack specific projects only attack RCR/OCR projects because they only look at lines on a map
care to make ur reservations public?
Don't worry, these 2 being a CCR condo, Stalingrad, Regulators won't oppose you. In fact, i hope they join you in shooting down these 2 CCR condos, in traditional prime areas somemore :)
Afterall my perspective is different from singaporeans' perspective or tenants perspective. Hopefully I can have new perspectives by the end of criticisms.
thomastansb
24-02-11, 09:59
Looking solely at lines is dumb. Lines are created by people and they can be redrawn. Just look at D4 (near sentosa side). Used to be RCR but what happen now? So if you look at lines and say, D4 is crap because it is RCR, then you missed a great chance because of the inability to look far and predict. Carribean was launched at 600 psf and Reflection 1200 psf. Reflection even better. At the height of 2007, only 1300-1400 psf but of course, many people say it is only RCR :):)
No one is interested. If there is little discussion on a project, it means interest level is low. Also, the person who likes to attack specific projects only attack RCR/OCR projects because they only look at lines on a map
Some people commented that they won't want to reveal holdings because scared of attack.
So I opened myself up by revealing part of my holdings. See no attack right.:).
devilplate
24-02-11, 10:09
Some people commented that they won't want to reveal holdings because scared of attack.
So I opened myself up by revealing part of my holdings. See no attack right.:).
not unless u start to attack others or self praise ur own project:D
No one is interested. If there is little discussion on a project, it means interest level is low.
look u've got to be more objective than that. the average forumers here are predominantly mid level (or below). higher end projects attract little attention simply because many rich fellows like Property Owner do not have the time, nor the interest, to talkcock in an internet forum.
Also, the person who likes to attack specific projects only attack RCR/OCR projects because they only look at lines on a map
this is your opinion, not a *fact*. the reverse can also be said to CCR attackers. While I (a CCR supporter) do not believe OCR supporters simply look at the line, can all OCR supporters be reasonable and dun assume CCR supporters look at lines only ? That line of reasoning is really silly.
[quote=thomastansb. Carribean was launched at 600 psf and Reflection 1200 psf. Reflection even better. At the height of 2007, only 1300-1400 psf but of course, many people say it is only RCR :):)[/quote]
ru saying buyers (direct from developer) of Reflections are now under water?
look u've got to be more objective than that. the average forumers here are predominantly mid level (or below). higher end projects attract little attention simply because many rich fellows like Property Owner do not have the time, nor the interest, to talkcock in an internet forum.
.......
is it? I thought many well off people here in this forum with multiple properties.
I try to avoid buying too many properties.
during last downturn, an approximation
1 orchard rd condo = 2 river valley condo = 6 rcr/ocr condo.
devilplate
24-02-11, 17:59
is it? I thought many well off people here in this forum with multiple properties.
I try to avoid buying too many properties.
during last downturn, an approximation
1 orchard rd condo = 2 river valley condo = 6 rcr/ocr condo.
above equation abit haywire....
anyway, y try to time the market? u may not always win.....seller's remorse is perm:p
Looking at the line is dumb, that' why I keep saying there are many fake CCR areas and not worth of buying!:banghead:
Only dumb people can't really comprehend others' messages :doh:
Looking solely at lines is dumb. Lines are created by people and they can be redrawn. Just look at D4 (near sentosa side). Used to be RCR but what happen now? So if you look at lines and say, D4 is crap because it is RCR, then you missed a great chance because of the inability to look far and predict. Carribean was launched at 600 psf and Reflection 1200 psf. Reflection even better. At the height of 2007, only 1300-1400 psf but of course, many people say it is only RCR :):)
Must be the value of 1 orchard rd condo = values of 2 river valley condo = values of 6 rcr/ocr condo:D. Right?
is it? I thought many well off people here in this forum with multiple properties.
I try to avoid buying too many properties.
during last downturn, an approximation
1 orchard rd condo = 2 river valley condo = 6 rcr/ocr condo.
Better not lah (anyhow, they are already better than many other condos). Anyway, few here would be interested in your units because to them they are too ex! :p
May be if you are willing to sell at almost same $psf as their OCR condo they will be interested? :D
care to make ur reservations public?
Don't worry, these 2 being a CCR condo, Stalingrad, Regulators won't oppose you. In fact, i hope they join you in shooting down these 2 CCR condos, in traditional prime areas somemore :)
Afterall my perspective is different from singaporeans' perspective or tenants perspective. Hopefully I can have new perspectives by the end of criticisms.
Must be the value of 1 orchard rd condo = values of 2 river valley condo = values of 6 rcr/ocr condo:D. Right?
1 orchard rd 1 BR = 2 X 500sq ft MM in river valley = 6 X 300sq Micro MM in RCR/OCR :D
Hopeful already said big unit!;)
1 orchard rd 1 BR = 2 X 500sq ft MM in river valley = 6 X 300sq Micro MM in RCR/OCR :D
repeat post from another thread
if i m not wrg to classify Bishan as OCR then.....
2011
CCR Vs OCR
0 1
Capitaland flexi muscle. Maybe LML purposely mislead competition by statement on 23rd FEb in Business Times. Then last min 24th Feb give a winning blow. Seems this land is ultra hot! 19 developers wor. Anyway as a CCR support, i cant help but need to award 1 point to OCR bishan. :scared-3:
More like 2 nil to OCR lol
1 orchard rd 1 BR = 2 X 500sq ft MM in river valley = 6 X 300sq Micro MM in RCR/OCR :D
during downturn,
1 unit orchard 2000sf @ 3000psf = $6mil
2 unit river valley 2000sf @ 1500psf = $6mil
6 unit ocr 1200sf @ 800psf = $6mil
of course now, ratio is slightly different
2010 year of OCR, no question.
prediction, 2011 should be year of OCR also, as measure by PPI.
during downturn,
1 unit orchard 2000sf @ 3000psf = $6mil
2 unit river valley 2000sf @ 1500psf = $6mil
6 unit ocr 1200sf @ 800psf = $6mil
of course now, ratio is slightly different
2010 year of OCR, no question.
prediction, 2011 should be year of OCR also, as measure by PPI.
Let compare apple to apple.
Take 1200sqf for all regions as example, is 1/2/6 ratio valid?
Average psf could well be 3000/1600/800? It should be 1/2/4...
1/2/6 is another attempt from CCR camp to oversell CCR against OCR.
:2cents:
Let compare apple to apple.
Take 1200sqf for all regions as example, is 1/2/6 ratio valid?
Average psf could well be 3000/1600/800? It should be 1/2/4...
1/2/6 is another attempt from CCR camp to oversell CCR against OCR.
:2cents:
sometimes OCR camp are almost blind.
I already mentioned that 2010 is year of OCR. and 2011 maybe OCR year also. Not an attempt for CCR camp to oversell CCR.
I made my investment decision back in 2009.
I am comparing 3bedders, as in family size units.
Please find a 3BR in Orchard at that size, 1200sf.
I must say, being well off but not that UHNW has its own set of problems.
if poor, can only afford $1mil condo, no need to think that much.
if UNHW, can afford a few luxury condos, no need to think that much also.
if only well off, buy 2 orchard rd, no more cash. buy less than $1mil condo, too many condos to manage. Whats a well off guy supposed to do? headache:doh:
Wild Falcon
25-02-11, 09:47
There are definitely 3 BR in Orchard/River Valley/CCR of 1200sqft. Also there are numerous new launches in CCR that are very small in size. Therefore, your ratio is outdated. In fact, comparing new launches, the average size in CCR is much smaller than OCR (RCR is a different animal full of MMs). So the price differential is more like 3.5x (and reducing trend esp when CCR units are getting real small). 6x might be in the past but not sustainable becose rental is not 6x - your tenants are not valuing the prestige or convenience. Prices are converging. In fact, some of these "OCR vs CCR vs RCR" comparison has become meaningless because it is now pretty obvious that at OCR project near MRT could be priced higher than a badly located CCR property. Developers price is best proxy for "futures pricing" has already done so. Relevant comparison might be MRT vs no MRT and (not too distant future) FH vs LH as LH ages.
sometimes OCR camp are almost blind.
I already mentioned that 2010 is year of OCR. and 2011 maybe OCR year also. Not an attempt for CCR camp to oversell CCR.
I made my investment decision back in 2009.
I am comparing 3bedders, as in family size units.
Please find a 3BR in Orchard at that size, 1200sf.
MRT wise, heard River Valley area is getting 2 MRT stations.
One is opposite Liang Court.
Another one is speculated to be opposite Cosmopolitan, Thomson Line.
Bukit Timah also getting MRT line.
So these traditional prime areas (not CCR) are getting connected also.
there are of course tiny units in Orchard. but by and large, orchard 3bds are at least 1500. That is a norm.
u have to remember most recent CCR projects were launched in 2007/8, at the time big was beautiful.
and in 2009/10 it's OCR's play. very few CCR new launches.
For the very few CCR launches, remove those MMs, the sizes are still big. CDL's Dunearn rd project 3bd is > 1400, Ho Bee's Trilight is almost > 2000 !
君子所见略同。;) I have said that may times!
Your River valley condo have gone up by ~500-600psf on average based om $1500psf. In comparison, your OCR/RCR condo may be ~200-400psf on average. For the same quantum that you have put in, the return is still higher for River Valley condo and you have less headache as just need to manage these two condo.
sometimes OCR camp are almost blind.
I already mentioned that 2010 is year of OCR. and 2011 maybe OCR year also. Not an attempt for CCR camp to oversell CCR.
I made my investment decision back in 2009.
I am comparing 3bedders, as in family size units.
Please find a 3BR in Orchard at that size, 1200sf.
I must say, being well off but not that UHNW has its own set of problems.
if poor, can only afford $1mil condo, no need to think that much.
if UNHW, can afford a few luxury condos, no need to think that much also.
if only well off, buy 2 orchard rd, no more cash. buy less than $1mil condo, too many condos to manage. Whats a well off guy supposed to do? headache:doh:
In general, I feel Sg property market short of some data to reflect the market condition.
I would like to quote, in HK, u would know, almost on Monday or Tuesday, how many ppl viewing the 10 major estates and how many transacted in the secondary market in the last weekend. All these indicators give how is the market going.
Whereas in Sg, we only know of the number sold in the primary market.
Is there anywhere I can gather info on the secondary market?
any pointer pl
In general, I feel Sg property market short of some data to reflect the market condition.
I would like to quote, in HK, u would know, almost on Monday or Tuesday, how many ppl viewing the 10 major estates and how many transacted in the secondary market in the last weekend. All these indicators give how is the market going.
Whereas in Sg, we only know of the number sold in the primary market.
Is there anywhere I can gather info on the secondary market?
any pointer pl
Realis. Annual subsrciption $3000 thereabouts. for free access, go to National Library main branch. But not sure whether can download data to flashdisk or not. I intend to go there next trip.
Please make use of public libraries more often. Last few times I go there, very quiet.
Regulators
25-02-11, 12:21
annual subscription is $300 or $3000? If it is $3k, a bit ex
Realis. Annual subsrciption $3000 thereabouts. for free access, go to National Library main branch. But not sure whether can download data to flashdisk or not. I intend to go there next trip.
Please make use of public libraries more often. Last few times I go there, very quiet.
annual subscription is $300 or $3000? If it is $3k, a bit ex
Annual subscription is $3000. That's why I dont subscribe.
But there is daily subscription but think cannot download data, that's why I also dont subscribe.
can try public access at national library main branch to see features of URA Realis.
phantom_opera
28-02-11, 08:38
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Portugal%202.17%201.jpg
Portugal 10y bond yield hit 7.5% and counting ... if SIBOR reaches this level, many people must commit suicide :eek:
Condo Kaiser
28-02-11, 08:48
If Portugal defaults, how much impact will there be on the local property/stock market?
devilplate
28-02-11, 08:51
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Portugal%202.17%201.jpg
Portugal 10y bond yield hit 7.5% and counting ... if SIBOR reaches this level, many people must commit suicide :eek:
i heard some 3rd countries mortgage rates r higher den tat....10+%....so y dun sibor rates follow?
phantom_opera
28-02-11, 08:52
If Portugal defaults, how much impact will there be on the local property/stock market?
ECB & IMF will not allow it. Otherwise banks from Germany, UK, France, Spain must eat grass for next few years and may trigger chain reaction like Lehman. Market already factors in the bailout, resistance to bond vigilantes is futile. Next is Spain.
devilplate
28-02-11, 08:52
If Portugal defaults, how much impact will there be on the local property/stock market?
nothing new....just happened last yr?
phantom_opera
28-02-11, 08:55
i heard some 3rd countries mortgage rates r higher den tat....10+%....so y dun sibor rates follow?
hk/sg pegged to US rate ...US has nuclear weapons, unlike PIGS
Portugal 10y bond yield hit 7.5% and counting
*only* 7.5, plenty of room to go before we talk abt default.
U can find some italian banks' debts traded well above 10. I'm more worried abt EUR exposure. otherwise I'd have bought some EUR bonds yielding 10% and above.
greek depts dropped to 50-60 for the dollar before a bailout is needed ;)
You appeared to have sold most or all of your properties and waiting to buy cheap cheap?
Ok let me tell you, I believe the night is still young. You can wait for at least another 5 years and stuff your money under your bed or earn that pantry 0.2% bank interest in the face of high inflation while property investors will earn about 5-10% per year for next 5 years. :D
i heard some 3rd countries mortgage rates r higher den tat....10+%....so y dun sibor rates follow?
You appeared to have sold most or all of your properties and waiting to buy cheap cheap?
Ok let me tell you, I believe the night is still young. You can wait for at least another 5 years and stuff your money under your bed or earn that pantry 0.2% bank interest in the face of high inflation while property investors will earn about 5-10% per year for next 5 years. :D
Hi I am new here. Would would mind just to explain why you think the night is still young? just for my understanding, as I intend to offload one of my property in Woodlands. Sorry for the trouble.
Thanks.:)
*only* 7.5, plenty of room to go before we talk abt default.
U can find some italian banks' debts traded well above 10. I'm more worried abt EUR exposure. otherwise I'd have bought some EUR bonds yielding 10% and above.
greek depts dropped to 50-60 for the dollar before a bailout is needed ;)
sorry to bother you, where to buy EUR bonds yielding 10% and above? is interest earned from EUR bonds taxable?
I am interested.
Several reasons:
1) Property prices are always a factor of economy. When economy improving, how can property price crash? Singapore economy is recovering, US economy is already recovering, Europe economy is also showing some sign of recovery. >2/3 of the world economy all recovering from a low base, how can property price crash? If SG property price crash then it must be due to policy mishap and you know who to find fault with :p.
2) Property price is always positively correlated to inflation & money printing/in circulation. With so high inflation and such super easy monetary policy and low interest rates all over the world (aka so much cheap money in circulation) looking for high yield and capital gain investment products, how can property price crash?
3) With the unrest spreading in Africa and risking Middle-East and even Eastern Europe, money will flow from places where they appear to be risky to countries which investors see as monetary, politically, economically, and socially stable with improving economy for capital gains and as 2nd home to live in. Which country in Asia is better than Singapore? With lots of money flowing in, how can Singapore economy drop, how can Singapore property crash?
4) It is also not in the interest of the Singapore Govt to see property price crash as they are also in winter for past few years selling fewer land and at super low prices. Now that prices have gone up, can sell at higher price to replenish coffers especially after such bleeding budget to make Singaporeans feel good. How can afford to make property crash? Their policy should and will aim at a "stable and sustainable property market over next few years", humming along with the growth of the economy, but to avoid hot money that moves in and out quickly in a span of just a few months (hence the need for SSD) and also avoid those who take too much debt to speculate in property, hence the lower LTV ratios.
5) When you see interest rate start to go up from a low base (about 1% as of now), that is a sure sign that the economy is even firmer than what the laymen are seeing from news report (the truth is contrary to what goondu said that when interest rate go up property price will crash!). The insiders will know first, and property prices will sure go up in tandem with the firmer and rising economy. (Only when interest rates go up to 6% or more in Singapore will you need to worry about the ill effects).
To sum up, if you have the cash to spare, can afford the lower LTV ratios, then property is a right investment over the medium term of 5 years (longer than the SSD 4-years period). :D
But hor, please open your eyes wide wide and don't anyhow buy because many rojak worthless low-quality properties being priced like they are "prime, premium, luxury" properties to sell to you! :banghead: Also avoid those that sell you "hopes" and "dreams" of future "new prime" locations at near to "prime" prices! :p
Hi I am new here. Would would mind just to explain why you think the night is still young? just for my understanding, as I intend to offload one of my property in Woodlands. Sorry for the trouble.
Thanks.:)
sorry to bother you, where to buy EUR bonds yielding 10% and above? is interest earned from EUR bonds taxable?
I am interested.
The banks can buy EUR bonds for you, bid/offer spread depends on your relationship. these high yield bonds are mostly sub debts, so you got to be sure you believe in them. interest earned is not taxed. Bonds from banks in Italy, Spain and Portugal, if you are game.
some insurers also issued sub debts with high yield. for example prudential. do u believe it's not another AIG ? ;)
The banks can buy EUR bonds for you, bid/offer spread depends on your relationship. these high yield bonds are mostly sub debts, so you got to be sure you believe in them. interest earned is not taxed. Bonds from banks in Italy, Spain and Portugal, if you are game.
some insurers also issued sub debts with high yield. for example prudential. do u believe it's not another AIG ? ;)
I believe in too big to fail theory. Think governments already learn for Lehman Brothers debacle ;)
Furthermore, EUR is down but not out, when recover, EUR starts, I earn from interest and forex gains.
How much yield is Prudential offering ?
You have any independent financial advisor or private banker to contact. PM me can?
Any minimum sum to buy these kind of bonds.
If I dont take a little bit of risk, how to achieve UHNW status.:ashamed1:.
If got nothing, nothing to lose mah....
Yield of 10% or more very tempting, but risks also very high!
Each lot usually S$200k each, just deposit a few hundred $k with the bigger foreign bank and say you want to invest in these bonds will do. They will automatically sign you up as priority/premier/(whatever the banks call) member with an assigned RM as a point of contact for you. :cheers1:
I believe in too big to fail theory. Think governments already learn for Lehman Brothers debacle ;)
Furthermore, EUR is down but not out, when recover, EUR starts, I earn from interest and forex gains.
How much yield is Prudential offering ?
You have any independent financial advisor or private banker to contact. PM me can?
Any minimum sum to buy these kind of bonds.
If I dont take a little bit of risk, how to achieve UHNW status.:ashamed1:.
If got nothing, nothing to lose mah....
Several reasons:
1) Property prices are always a factor of economy. When economy improving, how can property price crash? Singapore economy is recovering, US economy is already recovering, Europe economy is also showing some sign of recovery. >2/3 of the world economy all recovering from a low base, how can property price crash? If SG property price crash then it must be due to policy mishap and you know who to find fault with :p.
2) Property price is always positively correlated to inflation & money printing/in circulation. With so high inflation and such super easy monetary policy and low interest rates all over the world (aka so much cheap money in circulation) looking for high yield and capital gain investment products, how can property price crash?
3) With the unrest spreading in Africa and risking Middle-East and even Eastern Europe, money will flow from places where they appear to be risky to countries which investors see as monetary, politically, economically, and socially stable with improving economy for capital gains and as 2nd home to live in. Which country in Asia is better than Singapore? With lots of money flowing in, how can Singapore economy drop, how can Singapore property crash?
4) It is also not in the interest of the Singapore Govt to see property price crash as they are also in winter for past few years selling fewer land and at super low prices. Now that prices have gone up, can sell at higher price to replenish coffers especially after such bleeding budget to make Singaporeans feel good. How can afford to make property crash? Their policy should and will aim at a "stable and sustainable property market over next few years", humming along with the growth of the economy, but to avoid hot money that moves in and out quickly in a span of just a few months (hence the need for SSD) and also avoid those who take too much debt to speculate in property, hence the lower LTV ratios.
5) When you see interest rate start to go up from a low base (about 1% as of now), that is a sure sign that the economy is even firmer than what the laymen are seeing from news report (the truth is contrary to what goondu said that when interest rate go up property price will crash!). The insiders will know first, and property prices will sure go up in tandem with the firmer and rising economy. (Only when interest rates go up to 6% or more in Singapore will you need to worry about the ill effects).
To sum up, if you have the cash to spare, can afford the lower LTV ratios, then property is a right investment over the medium term of 5 years (longer than the SSD 4-years period). :D
But hor, please open your eyes wide wide and don't anyhow buy because many rojak worthless low-quality properties being priced like they are "prime, premium, luxury" properties to sell to you! :banghead: Also avoid those that sell you "hopes" and "dreams" of future "new prime" locations at near to "prime" prices! :p
Thank you for your explanation. You really open my eyes wide wide. :) Just one more questions, what do you think of condominium at woodlands selling at 800sqft? Or should I ask this questions elsewhere?
Sorry to trouble you again.
You may want to ask OCR supporters? I only know CCR well. :cheers1:
Thank you for your explanation. You really open my eyes wide wide. :) Just one more questions, what do you think of condominium at woodlands selling at 800sqft? Or should I ask this questions elsewhere?
Sorry to trouble you again.
phantom_opera
28-02-11, 13:36
99LH Woodlands condo selling at 800psf?? Just sell and switch to a more promising district such as JLD or D16/D18 near 4th uni or upcoming DTL2/DTL3 at 900-1kpsf or try your luck at CCR :D
Teddybear, for a moment I thought you were jlrx.
I am as resourceful as jlrx, miss his postings that tells us the history. :cheers1:
Teddybear, for a moment I thought you were jlrx.
I am as resourceful as jlrx, miss his postings that tells us the history. :cheers1:
yeah, those old newspaper cuttings, photoshopped graphics and all.
I missed the NOT below. :o
I am NOT as resourceful as jlrx, miss his postings that tells us the history. :cheers1:
Singapore property prices continue to firm despite cooling measures
Millet Enriquez
Channel NewsAsia
Monday, 28 February 2011, 2106 hrs
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/imagegallery/store/phpEe2Alf.jpg
The Seafront on Meyer (artist's impression)
Non-landed private home prices in Singapore galloped higher in January despite the government's recent stringent measures to choke off property speculation.
Flash estimates compiled by the National University of Singapore Institute of Real Estate Studies show the overall Singapore Residential Price Index rising by 2.6% month-on-month.
This is more than double the one percent increase in the index recorded in December.
The central region sub-index jumped 2.7% to 165.3 points, a reversal from a 0.8% decline in December.
Meanwhile, the non-central sub-index rose 2.5% to 158.8 points, slightly higher than the 2.3% increase in December.
Analysts say low interest rates and strong economic growth are pushing home prices up.
While some analysts say it is too early for the numbers to reflect the full impact of the cooling measures, others say it is alarming that prices are still rising so quickly.
And they say that if transaction volumes and prices continue to rise, another round of cooling measures cannot be ruled out.
Colin Tan, Head - Research and Consultancy, Chesterton Suntec International, said: "For month-on-month, it's 2.6% which translates to over 30 percent a year so it's rather robust and is quite alarming.
There's still a lot of demand. A lot of these buyers are actually looking to buy real property as a hedge against inflation.
That's why over the past few days, we have also seen news articles of people moving into gold and other avenues as a hedge against inflation. So property is no exception.
If the price increase continues at this pace, certainly I think the authorities will have to look at it. They may try to postpone and see, give it more time.
But if nothing changes, yes, we can expect another set of cooling measures."
Stay cool please!
Feb's and Mar's data points will offer a clearer picture on the underlying trend.
OMG...... Liao.... Pray hard that Feb and mar don't go up or else.... 60% LTV soon.....
Condo Kaiser
28-02-11, 22:57
60% LTV will only benefit the rich.
But then again, govt is of the impression the middle class are not capable to looking after our wealth.
But sadly enough, singaporeans prove them right too often.
Govt worried if they don't hold our cpf, we will go spend it and then when we roam the streets they will have to provide cheap rental flats and monthly handouts
OMG...... Liao.... Pray hard that Feb and mar don't go up or else.... 60% LTV soon.....
we're already on 60% LTV ah. they can't do 60% on first property, that'll kill off almost all first time owners.
phantom_opera
01-03-11, 10:58
STI rebounded strongly from 2,990. Those who follow amk in buying shares should be smiling now :D :spliff:
devilplate
01-03-11, 10:59
STI rebounded strongly from 2,990. Those who follow amk and myself should be smiling now :D :spliff:
huat argh:D :cheers6:
huat argh:D :cheers6::D :cheers6: :spliff:
:cheers1::cheers6: :cheers5: :cheers4:
STI rebounded strongly from 2,990. Those who follow amk in buying shares should be smiling now :D :spliff:
hahah at least I got action not NATO :D
should run some more today. all futures are green. :)
One particular property stock has been in the news a lot lately, talking about their initiatives.
Bought and sold within 3 days.
Bought and sold within 3 days. That's ideal....hit & run...
Able to do it last week and the week before. But usually go for blue chips. Cannot sell still can hold.
That's ideal....hit & run...
Able to do it last week and the week before. But usually go for blue chips. Cannot sell still can hold.ya...got some, paid, waiting for Greener then offload..:D
phantom_opera
01-03-11, 14:33
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Warren Buffett is looking for acquisitions as an outlet to deploy his $38 billion cash pile, the legendary investor said in his annual letter to Berkshire Hathaway Inc shareholders on Saturday.
Buffett gave an aggressive earnings forecast for Berkshire's collection of businesses, said the company would engage in record capital spending and forecast a recovery in the housing market would start within a year.
:cool:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Warren Buffett is looking for acquisitions as an outlet to deploy his $38 billion cash pile, the legendary investor said in his annual letter to Berkshire Hathaway Inc shareholders on Saturday.
Buffett gave an aggressive earnings forecast for Berkshire's collection of businesses, said the company would engage in record capital spending and forecast a recovery in the housing market would start within a year.
:cool: Wonder if any "Hot" money coming this way..., am sure they will pick up some US housing since kinda of cheap there
Full article below:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/UPDATE-4-With-38-bln-cash-Warren-Buffett-looking-f-EFP54?OpenDocument&src=rab
Bought and sold within 3 days.
aiyo I'm not a day trader lah :) I follow "value investor" BS ok ;)
but seriously, you've got to believe in "Asian" story...
devilplate
01-03-11, 14:56
aiyo I'm not a day trader lah :) I follow "value investor" BS ok ;)
but seriously, you've got to believe in "Asian" story...
same here...no contra for me....but me not value investor too...hehe
golagri chiongX3!;) :cheers6:
any of you play futures? like MSCI singapore index?
Have made and moved on six months ago.
any of you play futures? like MSCI singapore index?
I believe in making any $ in the legal way whether short or long term as the market is too volatile these days. Care to share what is "Asian" story.
aiyo I'm not a day trader lah :) I follow "value investor" BS ok ;)
but seriously, you've got to believe in "Asian" story...
phantom_opera
01-03-11, 16:19
Looks like HDB resale prices within 3 mins walk of MRT continue to rise, mirroring bidding price of land near MRT. Near MRT = new prime :confused:
Following Bishan flat motivated CAPL to bid so high??
190 Bishan St 13 11 to 15 121.00
Improved 1987 $723,888.00
145 Lor 2 Toa Payoh 21 to 25 110.00
Improved 2006 $760,000.00
124B Bt Merah View 16 to 20 133.00
Model A 1996 $770,000.00
2D Upp Boon Keng Rd 21 to 25 90.00sqft
Model A 2006 $638,000.00
243 Simei St 5 06 to 10 122.00sqft
Improved 1997 $635,000.00
161B Punggol Ctrl 16 to 20 114.00sqft
Premium Apartment 2004 $530,000.00
262A Compassvale St 06 to 10 110.00sqft
Improved 2001 $525,000.00
407 Bedok Nth Ave 3 21 to 25 118.00
Improved 1980 $638,000.00 (sea view)
5rm Simei flat 600+k, thats quite high! Considering that all HDB flats in Simei are walkable to Simei MRT station since Simei is a very small self sufficient estate with amenities... with the upcoming DTL3 Upper Changi East MRT station nearby (opp 4th Uni), the up n coming Changi City at Changi Business Park and the Expo expansion, there seems to be still upside in Simei area... My Mahattan@ Simei St 3 is selling $1200-1400psf currently... wow...
Those buying Double Bay Residences@Simei at 650psf launch price really tua huat!
Those buying Double Bay Residences@Simei at 650psf launch price really tua huat!
too bad Tanumi is not here. He/she is proven right.
simei around the mrt station will get very congested a few years down the road once DBR n my mahattan is completed..it wont be as nice as b4.:cheers6:
Currently, Simei estate is a very serene and quiet estate with amenities yet not much human traffic unlike Tampines and Bedok town which are nearby. I believe human traffic wise, it will still be ok even after Double Bay and My Manhatten TOPed as Simei's plot ratio is the lowest in Singapore, the highest the residential projects can be build there is 12 storey cos of its proximity to Changi Airport. Hence, population density in Simei will be among the lowest of all the suburban towns in Singapore, comparing to high plot ratio towns like Toa Payoh which is like a concrete jungle.
devilplate
04-03-11, 15:18
Our clients acquired a mid-floor three-bedroom apartment at Blue Horizon on West Coast Crescent. Blue Horizon is a 99-year leasehold condominium with full facilities and beautifully landscaped grounds. It was completed about six years ago and very popular with expatriate tenants. More than half of the 616 units are occupied by foreigners.
This particular apartment has a strata area of 1,152 sq ft and came with an expatriate teacher from an international school as a tenant. The lease runs until November next year. The transacted price was S$1.02 million, or about S$885 per sq ft, which was similar to other transactions in Blue Horizon at the end of last year.
Our clients funded the purchase with 40 per cent cash, i.e. S$408,000. Their CPF is used to fund the home they are staying in today. Stamp duty and legal fees added another S$25,200 and S$2,500, respectively. The total cash outlay was S$435,700 for this investment. They took up a loan for 60 per cent of the value at 1 per cent on a floating rate package with a local bank.
Rental income for the unit is S$3,800 per month or S$45,600 per year (Note: this produces a gross rental yield of about 4.5 per cent per annum). Expenses for property management and sinking fund amount to S$3,120 per year while interest expenses at 1 per cent (assuming interest rates neither went up nor down during the first year) cost S$6,120 per year. Making provisions for property tax at about 10 per cent of the annual rental income means we deduct another S$4,560 from the equation.
Now, rental income minus expenses produced a net surplus of S$31,800 (=S$45,600-S$3,120-S$6,120-S$4,560). This would have gone towards paying down the principal part of the loan. If the loan was taken over a 25 year term, they would need to contribute $2,040 a month or $24,480 a year towards the principal. Still, they are cash positive.
Note that the cash surplus of S$31,800 versus the clients' total cash outlay of S$435,700 implied a cash-on-cash return of 7.3 per cent. This is 10 times higher than the cash returns of placing $435,700 into a fixed deposit. The return is also higher than the expected rate of inflation for 2011.
The example above is conservative in that I have included the maximum costs such as legal fees (which are usually subsidised by banks that provide the mortgage) and I did not deduct expenses before applying the 10 per cent property tax. Furthermore, as we pay down the principal of the loan, the interest expenses will drop.
Therefore, I believe the clients are making a cash-on-cash return that is higher than 7.3 per cent this year.
Property investment come with its own risks: Tenants may move out and the apartment may be empty for a while, costs may rise, etc. Rentals may come down but we have room to absorb that slide.
In the event global stock markets take a second plunge, interest rates will be forced even lower, and a secured rental income will limit the downside of the property's value. What happens if interest rates rise? In that case, the economy must be growing fast and there is a good chance we can raise the rentals on the tenants during contract renewal.
bargain hunter
04-03-11, 19:00
wat about the other 2 scenarios: there is stagflation in the US and interest rates are up despite economy not doing well & the other event of US recovering faster than expected and that forces interest rates up. at the same time, in sg there are more units being completed and looking for rental and "we cannot raise the rentals on contract renewal" in 2013?
In the event global stock markets take a second plunge, interest rates will be forced even lower, and a secured rental income will limit the downside of the property's value. What happens if interest rates rise? In that case, the economy must be growing fast and there is a good chance we can raise the rentals on the tenants during contract renewal.
What you said will not happen because:
1. US govt's control interest rates up & down they want. So if economy is bad, they will just keep rate low. If inflation happens even when rates are low, best investment is properties!
2. When US rates are low, Singapore also low, so no need to raise rents; cut rents also can as long as rental can cover instalments. :D
wat about the other 2 scenarios: there is stagflation in the US and interest rates are up despite economy not doing well & the other event of US recovering faster than expected and that forces interest rates up. at the same time, in sg there are more units being completed and looking for rental and "we cannot raise the rentals on contract renewal" in 2013?
devilplate
05-03-11, 00:06
wat about the other 2 scenarios: there is stagflation in the US and interest rates are up despite economy not doing well & the other event of US recovering faster than expected and that forces interest rates up. at the same time, in sg there are more units being completed and looking for rental and "we cannot raise the rentals on contract renewal" in 2013?
i tink 1st scenerio got chance lor....:scared-3:
US goto up int rate if their inflation go haywire??
Who on earth mandates that inflation go up must increase interest rate? :rolleyes:
No, this time, inflation is not low but interest rate super low because of unprecedented crisis that still needs time to heel. :cheers1:
i tink 1st scenerio got chance lor....:scared-3:
US goto up int rate if their inflation go haywire??
bargain hunter
05-03-11, 08:06
i'm not sure. will need some expert from the 70s stagflation era to help us to answer that.
i tink 1st scenerio got chance lor....:scared-3:
US goto up int rate if their inflation go haywire??
What you said will not happen because:
1. US govt's control interest rates up & down they want. So if economy is bad, they will just keep rate low. If inflation happens even when rates are low, best investment is properties!
2. When US rates are low, Singapore also low, so no need to raise rents; cut rents also can as long as rental can cover instalments. :D
you assume US economy good, ours will be good.
But how come US economy now so bad, ours already recover like nobody business?
There is a lot of assumptions lah. Bottomline is the interest rate WILL NOT stay at 1% long term. That is for sure. And WHEN the interest rate goes back up for whatever reason, can those people with heavy loans hold on? How is the rental? Will the supply of completed units in 20113/14/15 out strips demand?
You already answered your question doesn't you? As long as US Econ is bad & their rates is low, rate will be low here regardless of Singapore Econ. Rates definitely will go up, but when? Not so soon it seems as US recovery will be very slow. However, more important issue is that inflation is real bad now, so what to do with your money? Put in bank as deposit & see their value vanish through high inflation? What investment is best hedge against high inflation (particularly during ultra low interest rate)? I must say this is really many people's once in a life time opportunity. We most likely will not experience this again.
you assume US economy good, ours will be good.
But how come US economy now so bad, ours already recover like nobody business?
There is a lot of assumptions lah. Bottomline is the interest rate WILL NOT stay at 1% long term. That is for sure. And WHEN the interest rate goes back up for whatever reason, can those people with heavy loans hold on? How is the rental? Will the supply of completed units in 20113/14/15 out strips demand?
rate goes up? not very soon as US needs more evidence of recovery before ite raise rate and reduce the pace of printing Dollars...:D
INflation in Aisa? hedging it will be buying property is the mindset..it is very tough to keep on suppressing the demand Artificially by having more and more policies..also very hard to please buyers and sellers at the same time, a balance is needed...if not erection at the wrong side..:D
You already answered your question doesn't you? As long as US Econ is bad & their rates is low, rate will be low here regardless of Singapore Econ. Rates definitely will go up, but when? Not so soon it seems as US recovery will be very slow. However, more important issue is that inflation is real bad now, so what to do with your money? Put in bank as deposit & see their value vanish through high inflation? What investment is best hedge against high inflation (particularly during ultra low interest rate)? I must say this is really many people's once in a life time opportunity. We most likely will not experience this again.
I tend to agree with Teddy views....
My assumption..... The next ten years definitely belongs to Asia, inflation will be here to stay coz of food prices, oil and man made crisis.... So the things to buy will be property, oil and commodity....
Unless Asia destabilizes... Or else money will flow to Asia.... Two risks in Asia... North Korea declare war, china property market crashes...
You already answered your question doesn't you? As long as US Econ is bad & their rates is low, rate will be low here regardless of Singapore Econ. Rates definitely will go up, but when? Not so soon it seems as US recovery will be very slow. However, more important issue is that inflation is real bad now, so what to do with your money? Put in bank as deposit & see their value vanish through high inflation? What investment is best hedge against high inflation (particularly during ultra low interest rate)? I must say this is really many people's once in a life time opportunity. We most likely will not experience this again.
actually my opinon is that the boat has passed already.... There isn't much upside left as the prices are so high.
I don't think the interest rates will rise soon as in this year. But interest rate will go up sooner or later right? 2012? 2013? 2014? take your pick.
The point is if you buy now, you better hope to flip in in 1-2 years. But with the recent flipping penalties, it is hard to make much profit so you are looking at LONG TERM like 3-4 years down the road. Don't you think 3-4 years down the road the interest rates will rise????
Seriously with the recent measures, anyone buying a property BETTER consider the effects of significantly higher interest rates than 1% on the property market.
BTW, I just upgraded my place in late 2009 and I have a big housing loan on me. So low interest rate and high prices is good for me.
Sometimes you have to admit that the world is unfair, because very often when policy are created to tackle certain fear/issue that starts to arise, e.g. fear of property bubble, they erected obstacles for the normal man-on-the-street to participate in the profits that can be made from (you know what investment). As of now, it means people who can hold for longer term will benefit. With so high inflation (official figure is 6% expected in 2011 H1? <- facts is usually the actual figure on the ground is much higher as some stuffs are just not properly captured, e.g. that same chicken rice though still costs $2.50 in hawker centre just comes with 3 pathetic small pieces of chopped chicken! You probably need to buy 2 plates to get same amount as 10 years ago!), most people will just see their money vaporise into the air if put in bank. Most people are just not experience enough to invest in stocks (see all those China-listed stocks with all those accounting scandals?). Some will say why not invest in Unit Trusts? Well, before you made money, your money has been used to pay all sort of charges, firstly the sales charges, but worst still the annual management fees (which you have no control over). End of the day, it becomes obvious that the most stupid and yet profitable investment is property, something which people can see, feel, and touch! More upside is still expected, although not at such high rate now. Getting ride of the speculators means the rise can also sustain over longer term (with the help of 4 years SSD) and lower leverage (with LTV of 60% only).
actually my opinon is that the boat has passed already.... There isn't much upside left as the prices are so high.
I don't think the interest rates will rise soon as in this year. But interest rate will go up sooner or later right? 2012? 2013? 2014? take your pick.
The point is if you buy now, you better hope to flip in in 1-2 years. But with the recent flipping penalties, it is hard to make much profit so you are looking at LONG TERM like 3-4 years down the road. Don't you think 3-4 years down the road the interest rates will rise????
Seriously with the recent measures, anyone buying a property BETTER consider the effects of significantly higher interest rates than 1% on the property market.
BTW, I just upgraded my place in late 2009 and I have a big housing loan on me. So low interest rate and high prices is good for me.
actually my opinon is that the boat has passed already.... There isn't much upside left as the prices are so high.
I don't think the interest rates will rise soon as in this year. But interest rate will go up sooner or later right? 2012? 2013? 2014? take your pick.
The point is if you buy now, you better hope to flip in in 1-2 years. But with the recent flipping penalties, it is hard to make much profit so you are looking at LONG TERM like 3-4 years down the road. Don't you think 3-4 years down the road the interest rates will rise????
Seriously with the recent measures, anyone buying a property BETTER consider the effects of significantly higher interest rates than 1% on the property market. .
So if I buy dleedon now and trizon now at 1600+ psf I will not make money in
10 years time?
BTW, I just upgraded my place in late 2009 and I have a big housing loan on me. So low interest rate and high prices is good for me
So if I buy dleedon now and trizon now at 1600+ psf I will not make money in
10 years time?
BTW, I just upgraded my place in late 2009 and I have a big housing loan on me. So low interest rate and high prices is good for me
wow, u going to up some more loan ah? or going to sell? Pple so rich all buying 2nd property. Seriously 40% got no effect on all u pple meh....
So if I buy dleedon now and trizon now at 1600+ psf I will not make money in
10 years time?
you asking me??? how I know??
actually my opinon is that the boat has passed already.... There isn't much upside left as the prices are so high.
I don't think the interest rates will rise soon as in this year. But interest rate will go up sooner or later right? 2012? 2013? 2014? take your pick.
The point is if you buy now, you better hope to flip in in 1-2 years. But with the recent flipping penalties, it is hard to make much profit so you are looking at LONG TERM like 3-4 years down the road. Don't you think 3-4 years down the road the interest rates will rise????
Seriously with the recent measures, anyone buying a property BETTER consider the effects of significantly higher interest rates than 1% on the property market.
BTW, I just upgraded my place in late 2009 and I have a big housing loan on me. So low interest rate and high prices is good for me.
It seems the new boat is not abt big big apprecaition now. 5% per year over 5 years could be equally attractive. The next 2 years is still probabaly rental yield story and inflation hedge strategy. Got to protect your cash for those whom cashed out recently.
The world wide food inflation is only gaining momentum as we speak, n there is only so much upside in our currency we can adjust. Housing , car , food inflation is enough to wipe out our gains/saving in 5 years to leave a very sour taste in our mouth.
Baring no irrational decision by our asian neighbors, i feel singapore is good for growth at least for next 5 years. interest rate alone does not reduces property hikes. Infact, during boom times, interest rates tend to be on upward trend. Market will price the interest rate hikes into rental to be in the green.
Policy risk are more dangerous than interest rates in my view. 1 wrg decision by inexperienced scholars might just kill everyone.
The drop from 80% LTV to 60% plus 3 year SSD is already a brutal blow, bid offer spreads have widened and number of sellers have given up selling. Further policy changes could have marginal impact as they've already killed off the bulk of the speculation. The bigger risk is the economic risk of the region. But that's further in the future.
actually my opinon is that the boat has passed already.... There isn't much upside left as the prices are so high.
I don't think the interest rates will rise soon as in this year. But interest rate will go up sooner or later right? 2012? 2013? 2014? take your pick.
The point is if you buy now, you better hope to flip in in 1-2 years. But with the recent flipping penalties, it is hard to make much profit so you are looking at LONG TERM like 3-4 years down the road. Don't you think 3-4 years down the road the interest rates will rise????
Seriously with the recent measures, anyone buying a property BETTER consider the effects of significantly higher interest rates than 1% on the property market.
well thought, the real test is when a few years down the road, if interest goes up and economy isn't doing so well, buyers who bought after Jan 2011 cooling measures, no holding power, need to sell but within the SSD period, and if prices dropped, they may have sell at a loss and get wacked by SSD...., always have 1-2 spare bullet$ then to pick up some good buys...
That's a bad cocktail, of rising interest rate in a sluggish economy. The feds must be sleeping on the job. 1% interest rate won't be here to stay forever. So can rental keep up with rising rates?
So if I buy dleedon now and trizon now at 1600+ psf I will not make money in
10 years time?
BTW, I just upgraded my place in late 2009 and I have a big housing loan on me. So low interest rate and high prices is good for me
I have been saying this for a while, why buy new if you're looking to hold for 10 years. The premium for new is currently too high. Buy something almost new, for a lot less.
In ten years time, a 10 year old property is not going to have much more premium over a say 14 year old property, especially for FH. Learn from Bishan 8.
The question is are we near the peak? For example, in Japan case, 10,000USD psf was the peak with price to annual rental ratio of 60. If you calculate the annual rental ratio over here, it is about 20+ only. In the last peak at 1996, the ratio was much higher.
Take one OCR condo, Casa Merah, rental for 3br $4000, annual rental take $45k, selling at 1.2 million so ratio about 26.6. If rental drops to $40k per year, ratio will go up to 30.
As long as average price stays flat for next 2-3y to wait for rental / economic growth to catch up, don't think we are anywhere near 1996 level.
I have been saying this for a while, why buy new if you're looking to hold for 10 years. The premium for new is currently too high. Buy something almost new, for a lot less.
In ten years time, a 10 year old property is not going to have much more premium over a say 14 year old property, especially for FH. Learn from Bishan 8.
But do u get the feeling most of the condo are ran of the mill types? anyhow build 1 square building up with some basic facilities then hope to sell liao. Infact recent article accuse developers of pushing out developments just few months after acquiring the land. Imagine paying millions n your friend tell u your Condo machan HDB & to add salt to wound, still got MSC like HDB :simmering:
Recently TOP condo that caught my eye is The Trillum. Looks nice near n far. Never been inside though. Car designers have evolved and added lots more curve into their design. Architects seems to still stay in the 90's with building designs. Only a few condo shows fair n creativity. Issit too much if i comment most condo look like their counterpart in HDBs except there is a pool downstairs.
Eg, Kim Tian Green new 40 flr HDB and The Regency @ Tiong Bahru side by side. For a distance i couldnt tell the diff.....
But do u get the feeling most of the condo are ran of the mill types? anyhow build 1 square building up with some basic facilities then hope to sell liao. Infact recent article accuse developers of pushing out developments just few months after acquiring the land. Imagine paying millions n your friend tell u your Condo machan HDB & to add salt to wound, still got MSC like HDB :simmering:
Recently TOP condo that caught my eye is The Trillum. Looks nice near n far. Never been inside though. Car designers have evolved and added lots more curve into their design. Architects seems to still stay in the 90's with building designs. Only a few condo shows fair n creativity. Issit too much if i comment most condo look like their counterpart in HDBs except there is a pool downstairs.
Eg, Kim Tian Green new 40 flr HDB and The Regency @ Tiong Bahru side by side. For a distance i couldnt tell the diff.....
More like HDB has caught up with condo designs. Look at the HDBs around The Quartz in Sengkang. Nice..
bargain hunter
06-03-11, 11:52
a recent article highlighted how quickly GLS sites have been turned around. so developers are more in the mood to flip the land they bought rather than think of innovative designs.
[quote=DaytonaSS.....
Recently TOP condo that caught my eye is The Trillum. Looks nice near n far. Never been inside though. Car designers have evolved and added lots more curve into their design. Architects seems to still stay in the 90's with building designs. Only a few condo shows fair n creativity. Issit too much if i comment most condo look like their counterpart in HDBs except there is a pool downstairs
........[/quote]
Being a Trillium owner, I bought Trillium not because of design, but because next to Great World City and speculation that MRT station will be somewhere along Kim Seng Road.
and MRT station will probably be connected to GWC via passageway.
Looking at map, may be opposite Cosmopolitan or the going to be SERS HDB opposite Zenith. Either location, Trillium is in the middle.
So to me, location is more important than design.
bargain hunter
06-03-11, 13:35
the other line's interchange ends at liang court so its possible that thomson line will have an mrt station near GWC. the blocks of hdb south of GWC and opposite mirage/tribeca have already been en-bloc and the owners will be relocated once their alternative hdb is completed. maybe an integrated dvelopment there? LOL, gahmen like to sell these mixed sites these days.
back to trillium, u mentioned u r selling becoz it can't fetch a decent psf rental yield? but if u r buying for the mrt, why are u selling now? the thomson line was never meant to materialise till many years later. another decade to go maybe? :ashamed1:
Being a Trillium owner, I bought Trillium not because of design, but because next to Great World City and speculation that MRT station will be somewhere along Kim Seng Road.
and MRT station will probably be connected to GWC via passageway.
Looking at map, may be opposite Cosmopolitan or the going to be SERS HDB opposite Zenith. Either location, Trillium is in the middle.
So to me, location is more important than design.
Being a Trillium owner, I bought Trillium not because of design, but because next to Great World City and speculation that MRT station will be somewhere along Kim Seng Road.
and MRT station will probably be connected to GWC via passageway.
Looking at map, may be opposite Cosmopolitan or the going to be SERS HDB opposite Zenith. Either location, Trillium is in the middle.
So to me, location is more important than design.
which mrt line is this? :confused:
the other line's interchange ends at liang court so its possible that thomson line will have an mrt station near GWC. the blocks of hdb south of GWC and opposite mirage/tribeca have already been en-bloc and the owners will be relocated once their alternative hdb is completed. maybe an integrated dvelopment there? LOL, gahmen like to sell these mixed sites these days.
back to trillium, u mentioned u r selling becoz it can't fetch a decent psf rental yield? but if u r buying for the mrt, why are u selling now? the thomson line was never meant to materialise till many years later. another decade to go maybe? :ashamed1:
My previous question was which of the 2 condo, Cosmopolitan and Trillium to let go off first.
I like to buy and sell within a cycle. So right now, starting to deleverage, 1 year earlier than planned. I don't think I need 2 condos to be near (as yet unknown) MRT station. One should be enough.
Cosmopolitan so far have better yield than Trillium. My Trillium unit fetch 4.7psf:doh:.
That unit which the buyer recently exercised, was neither Cosmopolitan nor Trillium. But another recently TOP unit near GWC. Not too difficult to guess which project.
So far, RV sucks in this property cycle. New and almost new around 2000psf thereabouts. Once hits 2000psf, don't move much anymore.
which mrt line is this? :confused:
Thomson line. MRT track will pass through Kim Seng Road. But location of station is still speculated.
Another MRT station is River Valley Station. The empty land opposite Liang Court. This is confirmed. Annouced in newspapers last year.
bargain hunter
06-03-11, 14:38
yes i noticed. RV hit 2k both in 07 and recently and gets jammed. cosmo definitely better yield per psf by virtue of their size configuration. so purely from a financial point of view, that makes your cosmo unit undervalued vs your trillium unit. assuming both can be sold at the same 2xxxpsf, not difficult to decide which to sell right?
your recent sell is a good sell (must have been a real easy decision) as it is the worst of the 3. :)
My previous question was which of the 2 condo, Cosmopolitan and Trillium to let go off first.
I like to buy and sell within a cycle. So right now, starting to deleverage, 1 year earlier than planned. I don't think I need 2 condos to be near (as yet unknown) MRT station. One should be enough.
Cosmopolitan so far have better yield than Trillium. My Trillium unit fetch 4.7psf:doh:.
That unit which the buyer recently exercised, was neither Cosmopolitan nor Trillium. But another recently TOP unit near GWC. Not too difficult to guess which project.
So far, RV sucks in this property cycle. New and almost new around 2000psf thereabouts. Once hits 2000psf, don't move much anymore.
bargain hunter
06-03-11, 14:43
hey, your 4.70psf not bad liao lah :) . look at this one still looking for tenant in the market below your price:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/2204562/for-rent-the-trillium
My previous question was which of the 2 condo, Cosmopolitan and Trillium to let go off first.
I like to buy and sell within a cycle. So right now, starting to deleverage, 1 year earlier than planned. I don't think I need 2 condos to be near (as yet unknown) MRT station. One should be enough.
Cosmopolitan so far have better yield than Trillium. My Trillium unit fetch 4.7psf:doh:.
That unit which the buyer recently exercised, was neither Cosmopolitan nor Trillium. But another recently TOP unit near GWC. Not too difficult to guess which project.
So far, RV sucks in this property cycle. New and almost new around 2000psf thereabouts. Once hits 2000psf, don't move much anymore.
Being a Trillium owner, I bought Trillium not because of design, but because next to Great World City and speculation that MRT station will be somewhere along Kim Seng Road.
and MRT station will probably be connected to GWC via passageway.
Looking at map, may be opposite Cosmopolitan or the going to be SERS HDB opposite Zenith. Either location, Trillium is in the middle.
So to me, location is more important than design.
Good buy! launch $1700+ selling 2300 @ TOP! good foresight! When u bought new do pple say its high also?
Good buy! launch $1700+ selling 2300 @ TOP! good foresight! When u bought new do pple say its high also?
Trillium where got reach 2300 @TOP . I wish if that is true.
I only buy at beginning of upcycle. Not in the middle nor towards the end of economic cycle. and dispose before the boom is over. Sometimes I make more, sometimes I make less. so that Trillium is a subsale.
But I am disappointed in a condo in Jln Mutiara. Previously in 2007, have a few caveated transactions at 2700psf thereabout. So in 2009, thought can make a lot from this condo. But that's life, sometimes win more, sometimes win less. Prices still stuck at 2000-2100psf range. So you can guess which condo is the first one to be dispose, the one that cannot get even rental 4.5psf :doh:. so I dont have that a good foresight afterall :D.
to avoid offending the current owners and my buyer (who already exercised the OTP), i shall avoid mentioning the condo by name. Maybe the buyer will have last laugh afterall, when prices finally reach 2700psf in this cycle. :)
repeat - seems like entire RV area stuck at 2000psf :doh:
Trillium where got reach 2300 @TOP . I wish if that is true.
I only buy at beginning of upcycle. Not in the middle nor towards the end of economic cycle. and dispose before the boom is over. Sometimes I make more, sometimes I make less. so that Trillium is a subsale.
But I am disappointed in a condo in Jln Mutiara. Previously in 2007, have a few caveated transactions at 2700psf thereabout. So in 2009, thought can make a lot from this condo. But that's life, sometimes win more, sometimes win less. Prices still stuck at 2000-2100psf range. So you can guess which condo is the first one to be dispose, the one that cannot get even rental 4.5psf :doh:. so I dont have that a good foresight afterall :D.
to avoid offending the current owners and my buyer (who already exercised the OTP), i shall avoid mentioning the condo by name. Maybe the buyer will have last laugh afterall, when prices finally reach 2700psf in this cycle. :)
repeat - seems like entire RV area stuck at 2000psf :doh:
tough to get past 2K when Aston hovering around 1300psf and Tiara (both freehold) at 1500psf
tough to get past 2K when Aston hovering around 1300psf and Tiara (both freehold) at 1500psf one of the reason are the MM launches..., increasing supply...
So can we safely conclude that buying sentiments for 2011 remains positive even with the latest round of cooling measures? :beats-me-man:
So can we safely conclude that buying sentiments for 2011 remains positive even with the latest round of cooling measures? :beats-me-man:
Would say still positive, just that measures kinda curb flippers like agents who used to get a choice unit at super VVIP launches, then tell u that if u want good unit, they know a client who like to sell. Actually, this so called 'client' is they themselves. Flip, easily can make six figure sometimes...
Trillium where got reach 2300 @TOP . I wish if that is true.
I only buy at beginning of upcycle. Not in the middle nor towards the end of economic cycle. and dispose before the boom is over. Sometimes I make more, sometimes I make less. so that Trillium is a subsale.
But I am disappointed in a condo in Jln Mutiara. Previously in 2007, have a few caveated transactions at 2700psf thereabout. So in 2009, thought can make a lot from this condo. But that's life, sometimes win more, sometimes win less. Prices still stuck at 2000-2100psf range. So you can guess which condo is the first one to be dispose, the one that cannot get even rental 4.5psf :doh:. so I dont have that a good foresight afterall :D.
to avoid offending the current owners and my buyer (who already exercised the OTP), i shall avoid mentioning the condo by name. Maybe the buyer will have last laugh afterall, when prices finally reach 2700psf in this cycle. :)
repeat - seems like entire RV area stuck at 2000psf :doh:
Following completion in December, buyer interest has returned to the 231- unit The Trillium (http://lushhomemedia.com/2007/07/28/the-trillium-kim-seng-road/) located along Kim Seng Road. The luxury condominium was fully sold by Lippo Group at private previews in early 2007, at prices averaging $1,700 psf.
Prices of units at the project, which obtained its Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) in December, are well supported above the $2,000 psf level. A 5,533 sq ft penthouse on the 28th floor of one of the three 29-storey towers was sold last month for $12.38 million ($2,238 psf), according to a caveat lodged on Jan 25, which was after the latest round of government measures. The price achieved at the penthouse is just below the peak of $2,239 psf in 2007, when a 2,217 sq ft unit on the 25th floor was sold for $4.9 million.
Most apartments in the development enjoy a 270° view of the city skyline and the Singapore River as well as private lift access. Two bedroom apartments measure 1,400 sq ft while five-bedroom ones are 2,440 sq ft and penthouses, more than 5,000 sq ft each.
The Trillium is also popular with homebuyers and investors, given that it’s just across the street from the Great World City shopping mall. There’s also a free shuttle service from Great World City to Orchard Road and Chinatown. The property is within walking distance to Clarke Quay, along the Singapore River and a short drive to the CBD and Marina Bay. It is also very near amenities, such as eateries and the wet market at Tiong Bahru.
Since its completion, The Trillium has seen greater interest from owner-occupiers than from investors, notes Harry Boey a property agent with PropNex. When the project was first launched four years ago, most of the buyers were said to be Indonesian Chinese, owing to its proximity to Great World City. Boey is currently marketing a two-bedroom, 1,400 sq ft unit with a price tag of $2.8 million ($2,000 psf).
Currently, 30% of the units at The Trillium are occupied. Investors are waiting for the right time to sell and, in the meantime, putting their property on the market for lease, observes Lester Tan, a property agent with HSR International. He is marketing a two-bedroom unit, which is up for lease with an asking monthly rental rate of $7,588.
The Trillium has not been spared from the effects of the government’s property cooling measures, with the resale market having turned sluggish, notes Boey. On the other hand, sellers have holding power and are willing to wait for the right price. He points out that The Trillium commands a slight price premium, compared with The Cosmopolitan, a 228-unit, 36-storey condo located next door and completed in 2008 by Wheelock Properties. The property agent attributes the price premium at The Trillium to the fact that it’s a newer development and units have private lift access.
The most recent transaction at The Cosmopolitan was for a 1,324 sq ft unit on the 12th floor for $2.58 million ($1,950 psf) on Jan 24. However, last year, there were at least 10 units at The Cosmopolitan that changed hands in the resale market at $2,000 psf, with more than a handful sold at above $2,100 psf. The highest average price achieved last year, based on caveats lodged with URA Realis, was for a 35thfloor, 1,679 sq ft unit that was sold for $3.67 million ($2,184 psf).
On the other side of The Trillium is the 36- storey, 97-unit Centennia Suites, also developed by Lippo Group. Launched last March, the project is fully sold, with prices averaging $2,000 to $2,100 psf. Construction is under way, with the condo expected to be completed by 2012.
Meanwhile, at The Trillium, there were three transactions from Jan 25 to Feb 1, with prices ranging from $2,050 to $2,238 psf, according to caveats lodged with URA Realis.
The seller of the 5,533 sq ft penthouse on the 28th floor, which was sold for $12.38 million ($2,238 psf) on Jan 25, reaped a 21% capital gain, having purchased the property for $10.24 million ($1,850 psf) in 2007.
A 2,217 sq ft unit on the 16th floor was sold for $4.6 million ($2,100 psf) on Jan 31. The previous owner had purchased the unit for $3.9 million ($1,760 psf) in 2007, thus enjoying a 19% gain.
On the 10th floor, a 1,797 sq ft unit was sold for $3.69 million ($2,050 psf). This is a 17% gain for the seller, who purchased it for $3.138 million ($1,746 psf) in 2009. Prior to that, the unit was sold for $2.793 million ($1,554 psf).
Source : The Edge – 21 Feb 2011
i
So can we safely conclude that buying sentiments for 2011 remains positive even with the latest round of cooling measures? :beats-me-man:
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/A3Silvereye/IMG_0524.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/A3Silvereye/IMG_0522.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/A3Silvereye/IMG_0520.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/A3Silvereye/IMG_0519.jpg
lets pray MBT dont do anything stupid to rock the boat. H2O at Sengkang. Avg 920 psf @ beside a water catchment area......
bargain hunter
06-03-11, 21:04
i know which project but will help u by not mentioning. but to make it more obvious: units are even bigger than trillium. :ashamed1:
that project more for own stay. rental/psf sure jia lat. at least u r not those who contributed to the 2700psf buyers right? ;)
Trillium where got reach 2300 @TOP . I wish if that is true.
I only buy at beginning of upcycle. Not in the middle nor towards the end of economic cycle. and dispose before the boom is over. Sometimes I make more, sometimes I make less. so that Trillium is a subsale.
But I am disappointed in a condo in Jln Mutiara. Previously in 2007, have a few caveated transactions at 2700psf thereabout. So in 2009, thought can make a lot from this condo. But that's life, sometimes win more, sometimes win less. Prices still stuck at 2000-2100psf range. So you can guess which condo is the first one to be dispose, the one that cannot get even rental 4.5psf :doh:. so I dont have that a good foresight afterall :D.
to avoid offending the current owners and my buyer (who already exercised the OTP), i shall avoid mentioning the condo by name. Maybe the buyer will have last laugh afterall, when prices finally reach 2700psf in this cycle. :)
repeat - seems like entire RV area stuck at 2000psf :doh:
phantom_opera
06-03-11, 21:14
When MM units in suburbs TOP, real challenge will come:
1. EastWood Regency 3XX-4XXsqft
2. Imperial Height 452sqft
3. Kembangan Suite 4XX-6XXsqft
4. East Coast Residences 5XXsqft
If cannot rent out, end up rent to ??? :scared-1:
Aiyo say until like that if u still dun know I bet u just started looking at pty last year :cool:
But hopeful dun worry, this forum is not as popular as you think ;) Look at the nb posts in CCR forums :)
bargain hunter
06-03-11, 21:41
not so many pple look at CCR lah. they may not get it one. ;) not that its that important. :)
Aiyo say until like that if u still dun know I bet u just started looking at pty last year :cool:
But hopeful dun worry, this forum is not as popular as you think ;) Look at the nb posts in CCR forums :)
devilplate
06-03-11, 23:38
Good buy! launch $1700+ selling 2300 @ TOP! good foresight! When u bought new do pple say its high also?
when trillium launch? 3-4yrs ago? average price is about 2100psf now....let say bot at 1700psf...only increase abt 25% rite....abit underperformed?
CMI southbank near HDB rental flats (some say might as well buy HDB flats nearby) launched at around 700psf in mid 2006 and now doubled......
when trillium launch? 3-4yrs ago? average price is about 2100psf now....let say bot at 1700psf...only increase abt 25% rite....abit underperformed?
CMI southbank near HDB rental flats (some say might as well buy HDB flats nearby) launched at around 700psf in mid 2006 and now doubled......
DISAGREE WIF U DP! If that is the case, is southbank over perform. :simmering:
devilplate
06-03-11, 23:41
i know which project but will help u by not mentioning. but to make it more obvious: units are even bigger than trillium. :ashamed1:
that project more for own stay. rental/psf sure jia lat. at least u r not those who contributed to the 2700psf buyers right? ;)
project name is : LXXX rite?
devilplate
06-03-11, 23:47
DISAGREE WIF U DP! If that is the case, is southbank over perform. :simmering:
i got more examples....in early 2007....one leicester 6xxpsf only...now u can check the price....blossom@woodleigh also 6xxpsf.....now....r u convinced tat trillium underperformed or those CMI RCR/OCR condos near HDB overperformed?:p
in early 2007 till now.....buy HDB and mass market condos HUAT HUAT HUAT ARGHHH
however in 2003-2007(b4 subprime unveils), buy CCR HUAT HUAT HUAT!!!
and 2009 til now: LANDED HUATX10!!!
:cheers6:
so in 2011-2013? .....pocketed 'undervalued' gems anywhr:2cents:
i got more examples....in early 2007....one leicester 6xxpsf only...now u can check the price....blossom@woodleigh also 6xxpsf.....now....r u convinced tat trillium underperformed or those CMI RCR/OCR condos near HDB overperformed?:p
in early 2007 till now.....buy HDB and mass market condos HUAT HUAT HUAT ARGHHH
however in 2003-2007(b4 subprime unveils), buy CCR HUAT HUAT HUAT!!!
and 2009 til now: LANDED HUATX10!!!
:cheers6:
so in 2011-2013? .....pocketed 'undervalued' gems anywhr:2cents:
I would say it is Southbank that over-performed and Trillium under-performed.
Is there such a thing as rotational play in Singapore property scene?
2003-2007, CCR shine.
2009-2013? OCR/RCR shine
2015-2017 CCR turn to shine?
roberton area "undervalued" :D
bro you have a sharp view of the market.
after i sold southbanks i parked into ocrs, coz i could see the psf difference expand too wide and felt that it's a matter of time b4 this gap compacts again. :)
i got more examples....in early 2007....one leicester 6xxpsf only...now u can check the price....blossom@woodleigh also 6xxpsf.....now....r u convinced tat trillium underperformed or those CMI RCR/OCR condos near HDB overperformed?:p
in early 2007 till now.....buy HDB and mass market condos HUAT HUAT HUAT ARGHHH
however in 2003-2007(b4 subprime unveils), buy CCR HUAT HUAT HUAT!!!
and 2009 til now: LANDED HUATX10!!!
:cheers6:
so in 2011-2013? .....pocketed 'undervalued' gems anywhr:2cents:
bargain hunter
07-03-11, 07:42
haha, hopeful should be the one to confirm it. ;)
this one 2007 peak launched at 2700 wor, now 2000...so the return is? :ashamed1:
as for trillium, 1700 is the public price (i think apr 07?), many indos got theirs much lower than 1700. by the time they launched at 1700, sentiment in CCR was already starting to heat up, thus, was able to sell to public at that price. then by the 07 peak already reached current price. so like hopeful was saying, now also chiong around current prices and hit resistance.
project name is : LXXX rite?
devilplate
07-03-11, 07:47
How much was the preview price for trillium? 1500psf ar? Den not too bad lor.... Hehe
bargain hunter
07-03-11, 13:45
kelong price u mean? :D i dun have the caveat data anymore but seems to recall seeing some at 1500psf+. gotta ask hopeful, he prob got at preview since he is indo. :)
How much was the preview price for trillium? 1500psf ar? Den not too bad lor.... Hehe
rattydrama
07-03-11, 23:11
http://forums.condosingapore.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2122&d=1299496724
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 09:53
it is weird why straits trading is selling their very own gallop green (which had previously been held for investment) and buying these units for investment at the same time.
"A JOINT venture between Lippo Group and CLSA Capital Partners has sold the remaining 14 units in the 26-unit freehold development The Holland Collection at slightly over $50 million, BT understands.
The deal is said to price the units, which include two, three and four-bedroom apartments, at nearly $1,600 per square foot on average. Straits Trading has been tipped as the buyer. The group developed the Gallop Gables and Gallop Green condos nearby.
The five-storey Holland Collection, which is near the Singapore Botanic Gardens, is expected to be completed later this year. Analysts reckon Straits Trading is likely to hold the 14 units as a long-term investment, for rental income.
Colliers International is understood to have brokered the sale. When Lippo and CLSA first released the project at Holland Road around April last year, the average price was indicated at about $2,000 psf."
devilplate
15-03-11, 09:57
it is weird why straits trading is selling their very own gallop green (which had previously been held for investment) and buying these units for investment at the same time.
"A JOINT venture between Lippo Group and CLSA Capital Partners has sold the remaining 14 units in the 26-unit freehold development The Holland Collection at slightly over $50 million, BT understands.
The deal is said to price the units, which include two, three and four-bedroom apartments, at nearly $1,600 per square foot on average. Straits Trading has been tipped as the buyer. The group developed the Gallop Gables and Gallop Green condos nearby.
The five-storey Holland Collection, which is near the Singapore Botanic Gardens, is expected to be completed later this year. Analysts reckon Straits Trading is likely to hold the 14 units as a long-term investment, for rental income.
Colliers International is understood to have brokered the sale. When Lippo and CLSA first released the project at Holland Road around April last year, the average price was indicated at about $2,000 psf."
bcoz the price is 1600psf leh....a gd discount from 2k psf....and probably after they sold their gallop condos....getting butt itchy and seller's remorse....duno wat to do wif the $:D
they claimed to keep it as rental income....i really doubt so:p
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 10:01
no leh. i still see their adverts for gallop green. its a much better location with quiet surroundings. not sure what price they are selling those though.
but they may really keep it for rental income. after they completed gallop green (note, not gallop gables), they kept the whole project for rental. they only started selling the units there from 2009 onwards.
bcoz the price is 1600psf leh....a gd discount from 2k psf....and probably after they sold their gallop condos....getting butt itchy and seller's remorse....duno wat to do wif the $:D
they claimed to keep it as rental income....i really doubt so:p
devilplate
15-03-11, 10:06
no leh. i still see their adverts for gallop green. its a much better location with quiet surroundings. not sure what price they are selling those though.
but they may really keep it for rental income. after they completed gallop green (note, not gallop gables), they kept the whole project for rental. they only started selling the units there from 2009 onwards.
wat i mean is: if they can sell for a decent profit...they will sell lor.....:D
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 13:42
1228 units sold in feb! 1101 if exlude ECs. chiong ah! mar numbers should exceed this. more measures needed hahaha.
1228 units sold in feb! 1101 if exlude ECs. chiong ah! mar numbers should exceed this. more measures needed hahaha.
Haiz ... juz thot of putting the numbers here after a long period of silence .. u still beat me to it!
:D
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 13:47
yah. u so quiet. still got 4D no. every month leh despite measures. ;)
Haiz ... juz thot of putting the numbers here after a long period of silence .. u still beat me to it!
:D
yah. u so quiet. still got 4D no. every month leh despite measures. ;)
Hanor ... wonder if Mr Mah will intro more measures after GE .. now that it's already March :rolleyes:
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 13:54
i thot if there is, it would be before election rather than after?
Hanor ... wonder if Mr Mah will intro more measures after GE .. now that it's already March :rolleyes:
1228 units sold in feb! 1101 if exlude ECs. chiong ah! mar numbers should exceed this. more measures needed hahaha.
no what.. MBT can claim "figures droped from 1209 in Jan to 1101 in Feb", a "massive 9% drop"
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 14:22
shorter month + long holidays? if he dare to claim like that then very malu liao. besides, mar numbers could likely be more than jan or feb. then still defeats the purpose.
no what.. MBT can claim "figures droped from 1209 in Jan to 1101 in Feb", a "massive 9% drop"
Wild Falcon
15-03-11, 15:22
Maybe they think 1600psf is a reasonable price lor. After all, its like 20% discount from last year buyers (some people call 20% discount as "crash" leh). After all the 99Lh d'Leedon also 1600psf and this is freehold.
The developer/seller decide to let go of everything at 1600psf and no longer see much upside.
wat i mean is: if they can sell for a decent profit...they will sell lor.....:D
shorter month + long holidays? if he dare to claim like that then very malu liao. besides, mar numbers could likely be more than jan or feb. then still defeats the purpose.
With all the potential upside on March's figures, and the impending election it's actually quite malu for MBT and PAP. The oppositions will have a field day with this issue........:)
bargain hunter
15-03-11, 16:11
i think so too leh. that's why there is potential for MBT to whack again. sentiment picked up again at the showflats after the bishan record bid.
With all the potential upside on March's figures, and the impending election it's actually quite malu for MBT and PAP. The oppositions will have a field day with this issue........:)
With all the potential upside on March's figures, and the impending election it's actually quite malu for MBT and PAP. The oppositions will have a field day with this issue........:)
Already u've the snr one GCT talking about the sporadic flooding here vs. a major disaster (different scenarios of coz different reactions lah) ... if I were the PM, can sweat first (& then maybe ask his snr nicely to talk less pls ... if nec juz 'shut up' during these couple of mths)
:p
Think for now, shld be no action fr MBT bah .. no action is betta than taking action & risk the bigger picture :2cents:
phantom_opera
15-03-11, 17:21
IMO, Japan crisis will dampen buying sentiment until it is fully resolved. Tomorrow Straits Times headlines: "Black Tuesday for Nikkei - worst drop since 1987", with graphs showing major drop in all Asian stocks market + Dow potential huge drop tonight ... this is 10X more effective than MBT's "price will drop, please don't buy" or a temporary dip in monthly sales figures
Germany 30 futures (-300, down 4%)
Dow futures (-255)
FTSE -150
IMO, Japan crisis will dampen buying sentiment until it is fully resolved. Tomorrow Straits Times headlines: "Black Tuesday for Nikkei - worst drop since 1987", with graphs showing major drop in all Asian stocks market + Dow potential huge drop tonight ... this is 10X more effective than MBT's "price will drop, please don't buy" or a temporary dip in monthly sales figures
Germany 30 futures (-300, down 4%)
Dow futures (-255)
FTSE -150
whats so different about this earthquake?
Kobe earthquake and LA earthquake, the reactions of market quite normal le.
whats so different about this earthquake?
Kobe earthquake and LA earthquake, the reactions of market quite normal le.
radiation..........
phantom_opera
15-03-11, 17:46
fear of radiation -> massive exodus of foreigners -> crash in stock market -> margin calls / cash flow problem -> Japanese funds sell everything liquid overseas -> global sell off
how bad, how long, is still anybody's guess, all I know is it seems to worsen day by day .... shit may drop from sky :scared-2:
and I wonder whether the Japanese government is buying in stock market just to act as a buyer in some shares :doh:
so in Singapore context, no matter what cooling measures Singapore government introduces, it is the global economy that determines the direction of the property market?
phantom_opera
15-03-11, 17:58
so in Singapore context, no matter what cooling measures Singapore government introduces, it is the global economy that determines the direction of the property market?
That is because their measures are never meant to crash the property price ... even effect of capital gain tax in 1996 was no match for Soros in 1997
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