Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

[mr funny]

Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

By Wong Siew Ying, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 21 March 2008 0021 hrs


SINGAPORE: Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year.

But those of high-end residential properties could taper off by up to 10 per cent.

And if you're looking to buy, the market is in your favour, according to Propnex's CEO, Mohamed Ismail Abdul Gafoore, in a speech to alumni members at the National University of Singapore.

Despite the weaker market sentiments, industry players expect mass market condominiums to do relatively well this year and prices are set to climb but at a more sluggish pace.

And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals.

Mr Mohammad Ismail said: "When we compare the prices of places like Parc Oasis or Woodsgrove condo, the prices today hold and in some instances are even higher per square foot.

“Look at today, the public housing pricing, and the DBSS pricing per square foot. They are already going at almost S$600 if one would want to buy at a mass market price that is less than S$800 with full facilities."

According to agents, the landed housing space could see modest growth but prices should hold steady.

The outlook is less positive for luxury apartments, which only six months ago were transacted upwards of S$2000 per square foot.

Property agents expect the dust kicked up by the US sub-prime crisis and the rising oil prices to settle by 2009.

They are also confident that the future is still bright for the property market as Singapore has the right fundamentals in place.

Meanwhile, demand for public housing is expected to remain robust this year, providing to prices.

So some agents believe it's a good time for HDB flat owners to trade up to a mass market private property. - CNA/vm

[Unregistered]

Since when property agent had become economic advisor predicting US subprime crisis and oil prices ?

[Unregistered]

Since when property agent had become economic advisor predicting US subprime crisis and oil prices ?

Don't believe in agents, they always think very positive and optimistic about the property market one, reason very simple, dun need to explain, all of us know what property agents have in their minds. To buy or not to buy depends on yourself, you do your own prediction, do not be lead by other opinions.

[Unregistered]

Precisely. I still remember 2003, 2004, 2005, every year they keep saying 'this year will recover' but nothing happened.

No credibility.

[Unregistered]

Ai yah! They always 'see people talk like people, see ghost talk like ghost lor'

[Unregistered]

Let the HDB and mass market condo resale transactions do the talking. One year from now you will know if the CEO of Propnex is talking rubbish or not. Those who bought in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 are laughing their way to the bank. Basically the bought their home below future replacement cost.

[Unregistered]

Let the HDB and mass market condo resale transactions do the talking. One year from now you will know if the CEO of Propnex is talking rubbish or not. Those who bought in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 are laughing their way to the bank. Basically the bought their home below future replacement cost.

20 tranactions so for march

[Unregistered]

Precisely. I still remember 2003, 2004, 2005, every year they keep saying 'this year will recover' but nothing happened.

No credibility.

I will assume you did not listen to them and buy during "2003, 2004, 2005". Else, you will not be making noise here but laughing and "HUAT" all the way to the bank. You ought to understand that to listen or not is depending on the individual financial capability and affordability as buying property is a long term and not short term investment. But if you do not have the financial power, you should not listen and should remain where you are now......

[Unregistered]

yep wat

is all about long term invesment lar

u think what

today u go buy Toto

u sure must today strike 5 million ar??

u think what

you go to bank ,tell the banker today

i put in 5 million investment

I want 100,000 profit now!!!!

dun be crazy

lar!!!

[Unregistered]

Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

Mr Mohammad Ismail said: "When we compare the prices of places like Parc Oasis or Woodsgrove condo, the prices today hold and in some instances are even higher per square foot.

“Look at today, the public housing pricing, and the DBSS pricing per square foot. They are already going at almost S$600 if one would want to buy at a mass market price that is less than S$800 with full facilities."

Ya I agree with the Propnex Mr Mohammad Ismail.

Mass market is now a good deal compared to HDB flats. Or rather, HDB flats are a bad deal.

Recently some people wrote to the Straits Times forum to complain why the monthly conservancy charges for HDB are even higher than for some condos, after including parking charges. Whereas parking in condos is free-of-charge.

Then the HDB replied that they did not sell the carpark to you.

On top of that, when you buy a condo, you are buying the land as well. So next time, let's say 30 years later when your condo en bloc, you or your children can enjoy the en bloc windfall.

But then for HDB flats, the land belongs to HDB. So those Selective En Bloc (SERS) en bloc profits all go to the HDB.

Of course the HDB will say they did not sell you the land.

So they did not sell you the car park and they did not sell you the land and they did not sell you the swimming pool at the town centre and your conservancy charges do not include security guards to prevent loan sharks from splashing paint onto your doors.

So if you subtract away all these things, HDB flats are really not value-for-money compared to condos.

[Unregistered]

HDB flats ..there value never drops ...stays above valuation keke!!!

[Unregistered]

HDB flats ..there value never drops ...stays above valuation keke!!!

HDB value never drops?

Then what does the chart below tell you?

http://www101.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampuadp.nsf/0/RS_PriceIndex/$file/PriceIndex4Q07(Actual)Small.gif

[Unregistered]

Ya I agree with the Propnex Mr Mohammad Ismail.

Mass market is now a good deal compared to HDB flats. Or rather, HDB flats are a bad deal.

Recently some people wrote to the Straits Times forum to complain why the monthly conservancy charges for HDB are even higher than for some condos, after including parking charges. Whereas parking in condos is free-of-charge.

Then the HDB replied that they did not sell the carpark to you.

On top of that, when you buy a condo, you are buying the land as well. So next time, let's say 30 years later when your condo en bloc, you or your children can enjoy the en bloc windfall.

But then for HDB flats, the land belongs to HDB. So those Selective En Bloc (SERS) en bloc profits all go to the HDB.

Of course the HDB will say they did not sell you the land.

So they did not sell you the car park and they did not sell you the land and they did not sell you the swimming pool at the town centre and your conservancy charges do not include security guards to prevent loan sharks from splashing paint onto your doors.

So if you subtract away all these things, HDB flats are really not value-for-money compared to condos.

Agreed with you 100%. Infact some condo maintenance around $160 per month and you can park 2 cars (covered carpark). I still dont understand this logic of people paying cash over valuation. Just doesn't make sense right.

[Unregistered]

At the rate construction cost is going, it appears that new mass market condo will be marketed at $750-800 psf. I am staying put in my 10 year old condo as the material used today is cheap homogenous tile and ceramic tile. Nothing great. Older condo, the material is better, granite/marble. No happy with the build in wardrobe or kitchen, spend some dollars to bring it up to spec.

[Unregistered]

HDB value never drops?

Then what does the chart below tell you?

http://www101.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampuadp.nsf/0/RS_PriceIndex/$file/PriceIndex4Q07(Actual)Small.gif

It tells me that there still a upside in HDB

[Unregistered]

At the rate construction cost is going, it appears that new mass market condo will be marketed at $750-800 psf. I am staying put in my 10 year old condo as the material used today is cheap homogenous tile and ceramic tile. Nothing great. Older condo, the material is better, granite/marble. No happy with the build in wardrobe or kitchen, spend some dollars to bring it up to spec.

Once the US problems are gone, developers will start pricing new mass market condos at $900 to $1000 psf.

[Unregistered]

Ya I agree with the Propnex Mr Mohammad Ismail.

Mass market is now a good deal compared to HDB flats. Or rather, HDB flats are a bad deal.

Recently some people wrote to the Straits Times forum to complain why the monthly conservancy charges for HDB are even higher than for some condos, after including parking charges. Whereas parking in condos is free-of-charge.

Then the HDB replied that they did not sell the carpark to you.

On top of that, when you buy a condo, you are buying the land as well. So next time, let's say 30 years later when your condo en bloc, you or your children can enjoy the en bloc windfall.

But then for HDB flats, the land belongs to HDB. So those Selective En Bloc (SERS) en bloc profits all go to the HDB.


Of course the HDB will say they did not sell you the land.

So they did not sell you the car park and they did not sell you the land and they did not sell you the swimming pool at the town centre and your conservancy charges do not include security guards to prevent loan sharks from splashing paint onto your doors.

So if you subtract away all these things, HDB flats are really not value-for-money compared to condos.


Yes, fully agree with you and more numbers to support the case....

HDB's conservancy charges have always been HIGHER than private condos in most locations except the posh Orchard Road/Newton/River Valley areas.

In 1987, I relocated from Jurong East HDB to private condo in West Coast area because the maintenance charges were lower in the condo and the car park space was guaranteed, unlike in HDB when you paid your season but cannot get a lot if you return home after 9 pm.

I am now paying $200 pm., for maintenance, free SHELTERED car park for two cars (we are a family of five adults, grown up children), free swimming pool and a day guard (estate too small to afford a night guard).

The security guard is from an agency and paid $2,500 a month, shared by 30 units which is about $83 per unit. Deduct this from the $200, the maintenance fee is only about $117. Understand sheltered (MSCP) car park at HDB is $75 pm., so for two cars, it would cost me $150 pm. at HDB, but my condo's $117 includes two free car park lots, free swimming pool, bbq pit, and the full cleaning, gardening, pest control.

Check out the numbers for yourself. Understand the ECs paid about $180 pm. with one free car park lot, 24-hour security, pool, tennis courts, squash, karaoke function rooms, gym, etc.

Isn't HDB overcharging?

[Unregistered]

What is she talking about?

"Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

but

"And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?

[Unregistered]

I saw lots of buyers showing up at my condo last week and this week. Think they are fed up of waiting for prices to fall. It is not happening. Think they are smart to strike a deal now as sellers more reasonable now with cloud of uncertainties in the US. If US manage to soft land their economy and avert a total collapse in their banking system and wider economy, the market will start to cheong again.

[Unregistered]

What is she talking about?

"Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

but

"And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?

I think what she mean is - a lot of sellers want to sell at current price, but can buy cheap later.

[Unregistered]

What is she talking about?

"Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

but

"And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?

Let me explain.

First, look at how many new condos will be coming up in the next five years: 31,000.

Next, look at how many new immigrants we are going to get in the next five year:

ChannelNewsAsia reproted on 27 February 2008 "Last year, Singapore saw over 63,000 new PRs, an 11-per-cent increase from 2006; and the city-state also welcomed more than 17,000 new citizens, a 30-per-cent jump."

In one year, we are getting 63,000 new PRs plus 17,000 new citizens: total 80,000.

In five years, we will get 400,000 new immigrants.

I don't know how many of the 400,000 new immigrants in the next five years will go after the 31,000 new private apartments in the next five years.

Not all of them are in the market for private apartments, that's why now the HDB is "overwhelmed" everytime they launch a new design, build & sell scheme (DBSS).

Now you should know why although the price is firm, it's still a good deal? Because once the subprime blows over, prices are going to explode through the roof again.

[Unregistered]

HDB value never drops?

Then what does the chart below tell you?

http://www101.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampuadp.nsf/0/RS_PriceIndex/$file/PriceIndex4Q07(Actual)Small.gif
Extrapolate the graph. Looks like time for a dip.

[Unregistered]

If you believe the dip will occur, then are you saying that the historical high back in the 1990s will never be breached again?

Merely looking at charts without understanding the forces and circumstances behind the trend is useless. I lived through that period and understand how times have changed. Most of the conditions surrounding the dip during the mid-90s are not present today. Just look at the state of employment/ unemployment today, wages, population demographics, economic structure, fiscal budget surpluses, low interest rate environment, inflation, national reserves, trade diversification, Sing dollar strength, anti-speculative CPF and financing policies, etc. I say, thanks to the rise of both China and India, as well as a prudent government, we couldn't have it better.

[Unregistered]

ya lah dip dip dip u sour grapes always want the price to fall rite?

well, then w8 long long lah...

the price will head north very soon...even before 2009...maybe u are destined to eat sour grapes all ur life...i can't blame u pessimists for tt

with the f1 coming up, upcoming casino at marina bay and sentosa, one-rochester developments,biopolis, upcoming new hotel developments, flooding of approx more than 1 mil expats to sg, huge investment firms building their offices here in sg...even a 1 yr old kid will tell u tt property price is not going to head south. With China, Vietnam, Thailand & HK property prices all catching up close to SG's property prices, do u still think prices will head south?

If u really wish tt property prices will fall, why not go indonesia/m'sia and stay in a kampung. It's cheap, inflation proof, enviromental friendly, green, no need for expensive raw materials except for some banana leaves and branches... faster TOP completion(max up to 1wk can complete already), upgrade at ur own pace, huge space, dirt cheap psf..WOW!!! Bargain deal!!! I think tt suits ur requirements perfectly, sour grapes =)

[Unregistered]

If you believe the dip will occur, then are you saying that the historical high back in the 1990s will never be breached again?

Merely looking at charts without understanding the forces and circumstances behind the trend is useless. I lived through that period and understand how times have changed. Most of the conditions surrounding the dip during the mid-90s are not present today. Just look at the state of employment/ unemployment today, wages, population demographics, economic structure, fiscal budget surpluses, low interest rate environment, inflation, national reserves, trade diversification, Sing dollar strength, anti-speculative CPF and financing policies, etc. I say, thanks to the rise of both China and India, as well as a prudent government, we couldn't have it better.

Yes. There is a very big difference between what happened in the 1997 Asian financial crisis and what is happening today.

In 1997, our Singapore currency plunged from 1.40 SGD per USD to around 1.80 SGD per USD. Whereas today, it's the reverse, Sing dollar has strengthened back to 1.39 SGD per USD.

This shows the healthy state of our economy.

In 1997, the epicentre of the financial crisis was in Asia whereas today it's in the U.S. It's a different story.

[Unregistered]

The fact of the matter is that property prices will move up because the overwhelming latent/pent-up demand in 2H 2008 and 1H 2009 will just blow you away. Sour grapes need to go back to economics 101 classes to understand the basics in supply/demand and price elasticity.

[Unregistered]

Let me explain.

First, look at how many new condos will be coming up in the next five years: 31,000.

Next, look at how many new immigrants we are going to get in the next five year:

ChannelNewsAsia reproted on 27 February 2008 "Last year, Singapore saw over 63,000 new PRs, an 11-per-cent increase from 2006; and the city-state also welcomed more than 17,000 new citizens, a 30-per-cent jump."

In one year, we are getting 63,000 new PRs plus 17,000 new citizens: total 80,000.

In five years, we will get 400,000 new immigrants.

I don't know how many of the 400,000 new immigrants in the next five years will go after the 31,000 new private apartments in the next five years.

Not all of them are in the market for private apartments, that's why now the HDB is "overwhelmed" everytime they launch a new design, build & sell scheme (DBSS).

Now you should know why although the price is firm, it's still a good deal? Because once the subprime blows over, prices are going to explode through the roof again.

Brilliant! this is what I can an intelligent triangulation of information....not some one sided single track mind. Bending the will of supply to meet demand (for home prices to come down) and just complaining and whining all the time like spoilt brat and sour grapes

[Unregistered]

view from Jim Rogers

What property do you own?

None. I sold my home in New York when I moved to Singapore last year and, for now, I’m renting. I’ll probably buy when I find the right place.

I’m of the view that property prices will come down in many parts of the world, including Singapore, so I’m not in a hurry. I don’t like property as an investment – it’s too illiquid and sometimes you can’t sell it at any price.

[Reporter]

view from Jim Rogers

What property do you own?

None. I sold my home in New York when I moved to Singapore last year and, for now, I’m renting. I’ll probably buy when I find the right place.

I’m of the view that property prices will come down in many parts of the world, including Singapore, so I’m not in a hurry. I don’t like property as an investment – it’s too illiquid and sometimes you can’t sell it at any price.

Why did you moved to Singapore?

[Unregistered]

view from Jim Rogers

What property do you own?

None. I sold my home in New York when I moved to Singapore last year and, for now, I’m renting. I’ll probably buy when I find the right place.

I’m of the view that property prices will come down in many parts of the world, including Singapore, so I’m not in a hurry. I don’t like property as an investment – it’s too illiquid and sometimes you can’t sell it at any price.

I trust Warren Buffett more. If you have taken Jim's cue in the last few months you would bought into commodities thinking they are only one third of the way into a ten year bull run. I took it with a heap of salt. Look what happen to oil and ag commodities in the last 2 weeks. I also disagree with his view on GIC and Temasek making direct investments into UBS, Merill and Citi. Jim is too much of a short term trader for me. Think Tony Tan and Tharman, MM are way ahead of the curve. Tell will tell.

[Unregistered]

I trust Warren Buffett more. If you have taken Jim's cue in the last few months you would bought into commodities thinking they are only one third of the way into a ten year bull run. I took it with a heap of salt. Look what happen to oil and ag commodities in the last 2 weeks. I also disagree with his view on GIC and Temasek making direct investments into UBS, Merill and Citi. Jim is too much of a short term trader for me. Think Tony Tan and Tharman, MM are way ahead of the curve. Tell will tell.

Agreed. Jim Rogers is a bit of a speculator. He says he will short the US financial stocks and see what happened, the financial stocks bounced back a last couple of days (I agree it is going to be volitate for a while). I remembered him saying that Citibank is worthed only US$8, now it is at US$23 (lowest at US$19). Look at commodities, wasn't him very bullish a few weeks ago and try to promote his commodities funds. Gold, oil and the rest of the commodities dropped close to 10% from its peak. So, nobody really can read 100% of the market, only time will tell.

[Unregistered]

I saw lots of buyers showing up at my condo last week and this week. Think they are fed up of waiting for prices to fall. It is not happening. Think they are smart to strike a deal now as sellers more reasonable now with cloud of uncertainties in the US. If US manage to soft land their economy and avert a total collapse in their banking system and wider economy, the market will start to cheong again.

CHEONG UR HEAD........
DUN MISLEAD PPL BY UR TREAD
U MUST BE AN AGENT TO SAY THESE...........

[Unregistered]

I trust Warren Buffett more. If you have taken Jim's cue in the last few months you would bought into commodities thinking they are only one third of the way into a ten year bull run. I took it with a heap of salt. Look what happen to oil and ag commodities in the last 2 weeks. I also disagree with his view on GIC and Temasek making direct investments into UBS, Merill and Citi. Jim is too much of a short term trader for me. Think Tony Tan and Tharman, MM are way ahead of the curve. Tell will tell.

MM Lee's message last month:

MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew last night urged Singaporeans not to over-stretch themselves financially in a period of boom, so that in the event of bad times, they would be better able to ride out the cycle.

Describing the effect of the property cycle, he warned that property prices go in cycles and will not keep going up all the time.

"They go up, then they go down," he said. "So when they go up, don't believe that it's going to go up further and further, and you start buying bigger and bigger, and mortgage for bigger and bigger amounts. Because the day it starts to fall, the cycle goes around, you will find yourself with a negative value asset."

Me no expert here, but think MM Lee will not happy happy speak out of nothing.

[Unregistered]

I think the mad bulls (suffering from Mad Bull Disease) have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

In buying a property, it is always a question of affordability, not do as the Joneses do. Even if there are 80,000 immigrants every year, they have to be earning salaries that can afford, current salary for current prices, and not some projected future salary because IR etc.

And if prudence dictates, then it's about 5x annual salary for properties. Out of the net influx of foreign talent, I expect only a few hundred will earn more than $500k per year, and a smaller fraction who would buy properties at $2.5m or higher. And if it's mid-tier that we are discussing, then we count those who earn above $200k per year.

As for foreign investors, they are here to make money too. They may prop up the prices for a while, but they can all go at the drop of a hat.

[Unregistered]

MM Lee's message last month:

MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew last night urged Singaporeans not to over-stretch themselves financially in a period of boom, so that in the event of bad times, they would be better able to ride out the cycle.

Describing the effect of the property cycle, he warned that property prices go in cycles and will not keep going up all the time.

"They go up, then they go down," he said. "So when they go up, don't believe that it's going to go up further and further, and you start buying bigger and bigger, and mortgage for bigger and bigger amounts. Because the day it starts to fall, the cycle goes around, you will find yourself with a negative value asset."

Me no expert here, but think MM Lee will not happy happy speak out of nothing.



The message is do not over-stretch, buy within your mean.
Still a buy, but do your sum right.
MM famous quote is next 10-15 years are golden age of spore, we are going to transform & we are going to succeed.
Even US catch cold this time, asia will not catch flu with China & India will lead asia to grow during this period.
Spore is at the center of world fastest growing region.

[Unregistered]

Agreed. Jim Rogers is a bit of a speculator. He says he will short the US financial stocks and see what happened, the financial stocks bounced back a last couple of days (I agree it is going to be volitate for a while). I remembered him saying that Citibank is worthed only US$8, now it is at US$23 (lowest at US$19). Look at commodities, wasn't him very bullish a few weeks ago and try to promote his commodities funds. Gold, oil and the rest of the commodities dropped close to 10% from its peak. So, nobody really can read 100% of the market, only time will tell.



Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

[Unregistered]

nothing will drop nowdays..

petrol increase

hawker food also increase!!!

Even maggie noodle also increase!!!

Please tell me what is cheap nowdays???

SO property prices will drop?

U think for yourself..........

[Unregistered]

nothing will drop nowdays..

petrol increase

hawker food also increase!!!

Even maggie noodle also increase!!!

Please tell me what is cheap nowdays???

SO property prices will drop?

U think for yourself..........

I know what dropped.
The price per MB of computer data storage dropped. Ha ha ha!

[Unregistered]

I think the mad bulls (suffering from Mad Bull Disease) have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

In buying a property, it is always a question of affordability, not do as the Joneses do. Even if there are 80,000 immigrants every year, they have to be earning salaries that can afford, current salary for current prices, and not some projected future salary because IR etc.

And if prudence dictates, then it's about 5x annual salary for properties. Out of the net influx of foreign talent, I expect only a few hundred will earn more than $500k per year, and a smaller fraction who would buy properties at $2.5m or higher. And if it's mid-tier that we are discussing, then we count those who earn above $200k per year.

As for foreign investors, they are here to make money too. They may prop up the prices for a while, but they can all go at the drop of a hat.

I think it's the sour grapes (suffering from Sour Grape Disease) who have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

Read this morning (24 Mar 2008) Business Times news:


Business Times - 24 Mar 2008


Singapore draws $3b of manufacturing investments

Latest batch of projects promise sunrise era, queen bee buzz

By RONNIE LIM

(SINGAPORE) Despite current global economic jitters, investment inflows here remain strong.

In the first few months of 2008, Singapore has already attracted more than S$3 billion of manufacturing investments.

More importantly, many of the investments represent a new wave of activities which will help the manufacturing sector here weather industry downcycles, keep ahead of the competition and stay relevant amidst rapid global technological advances.

This is one top of the "record S$16.1 billion (US$11.2 billion) in manufacturing commitments from investors in 2007, almost double that of the previous year, the government said on Monday." (ChannelNewsAsia 21 January 2008).

The S$3 billion investments so far this year was committed between 1 Jan 2008 and 5 Mar 2008 (just 2.17 months) if we extrapolate that to a full year, that's going to be another record $16.5 billion.

Last time Singapore used to target about $8 billion to $9 billion per year of investments. Now it is getting twice that amount.

Also note that these investments are new types of investments like "Aerospace Composites", "Solar Research" that requires expertise not necessarily available in Singapore.

This means more foreign talents to come here to rent properties.

Some may settle down, like this German guy below who appeared in Sunday Times (23 Mar 2008).

http://www.straitstimes.com//STI/STIMEDIA/image/20080322/ST_SUNTIMES_1_CURRENT_DTEXPAT23.jpg

One thing about Singapore I wish I'd known before I came here...

'I wish someone had told me that Singapore is like home, a truly cosmopolitan city. I would have come here sooner.'

[Unregistered]

I think the mad bulls (suffering from Mad Bull Disease) have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

In buying a property, it is always a question of affordability, not do as the Joneses do. Even if there are 80,000 immigrants every year, they have to be earning salaries that can afford, current salary for current prices, and not some projected future salary because IR etc.

And if prudence dictates, then it's about 5x annual salary for properties. Out of the net influx of foreign talent, I expect only a few hundred will earn more than $500k per year, and a smaller fraction who would buy properties at $2.5m or higher. And if it's mid-tier that we are discussing, then we count those who earn above $200k per year.

As for foreign investors, they are here to make money too. They may prop up the prices for a while, but they can all go at the drop of a hat.
I think it's the sour grapes (suffering from Sour Grape Disease) who have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

Read this morning (24 Mar 2008) Business Times news:

Business Times - 24 Mar 2008


Singapore draws $3b of manufacturing investments

Latest batch of projects promise sunrise era, queen bee buzz

By RONNIE LIM

(SINGAPORE) Despite current global economic jitters, investment inflows here remain strong.

In the first few months of 2008, Singapore has already attracted more than S$3 billion of manufacturing investments.

More importantly, many of the investments represent a new wave of activities which will help the manufacturing sector here weather industry downcycles, keep ahead of the competition and stay relevant amidst rapid global technological advances.

This is one top of the "record S$16.1 billion (US$11.2 billion) in manufacturing commitments from investors in 2007, almost double that of the previous year, the government said on Monday." (ChannelNewsAsia 21 January 2008).

The S$3 billion investments so far this year was committed between 1 Jan 2008 and 5 Mar 2008 (just 2.17 months) if we extrapolate that to a full year, that's going to be another record $16.5 billion.

Last time Singapore used to target about $8 billion to $9 billion per year of investments. Now it is getting twice that amount.

Also note that these investments are new types of investments like "Aerospace Composites", "Solar Research" that requires expertise not necessarily available in Singapore.

This means more foreign talents to come here to rent properties.

Some may settle down, like this German guy below who appeared in Sunday Times (23 Mar 2008).

http://www.straitstimes.com//STI/STIMEDIA/image/20080322/ST_SUNTIMES_1_CURRENT_DTEXPAT23.jpg

One thing about Singapore I wish I'd known before I came here...

'I wish someone had told me that Singapore is like home, a truly cosmopolitan city. I would have come here sooner.'
Wah lau! This one also dropped leh.
The roof of his Eos dropped down lah.
Ha ha ha!

[Unregistered]

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

I totally agreed. Why do I need to sell my properties to those sour grapes (hoping to buy cheap, wait long long) when the market is soft? I can rent it out for NET 3%+ and refinance my properties for less than 2% interest (SIBOR is dropping to mid 1% and is expected to drop further (see today's ST article), my rental income is more than enough to cover my monthly repayment to bank. My tenants even pay for my principle sum to the bank. I am secured for the next 2 years. 2 years' later, if mkt rebounce nicely, I will consider selling. If not, I can rent it out again.

For those who wish for a major collapse, I think you have a better chance if our country will sink in this financial mess or some disaster (like SARS) strike us. Then again, you could have lost your job and even we "lei long" and sell to you, you could not afford it then.

[Unregistered]

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

A classic of Chinese saying " See where the direction of the wind blows and turn your sail accordingly". No wonder he is a guru, at least he is smart to see the direction of the wind. No like the sour grapes, still chewing the sour grapes and refuse to let go.

Note: What he thinks/says a few weeks ago, no longer apply. Now, he says otherwise. SMART!

[Unregistered]

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

A classic of Chinese saying " See where the direction of the wind blows and turn your sail accordingly". No wonder he is a guru, at least he is smart to see the direction of the wind. No like the sour grapes, still chewing the sour grapes and refuse to let go.

Note: What he thinks/says a few weeks ago, no longer apply. Now, he says otherwise. SMART!
Wah lau!
I wish I can change as fast as him.

[Unregistered]

Wah lau!
I wish I can change as fast as him.

That's why he is so rich. Cantonese sayings " Those who walk the fastest, the best luck waiting for you".

In other words, the best luck go to the fastest person, the slow ones will not get any.

[Unregistered]

A classic of Chinese saying " See where the direction of the wind blows and turn your sail accordingly". No wonder he is a guru, at least he is smart to see the direction of the wind. No like the sour grapes, still chewing the sour grapes and refuse to let go.

Note: What he thinks/says a few weeks ago, no longer apply. Now, he says otherwise. SMART!

He bought big time into Taiwan last week betting on Mr. Ma winning the election. Sour grapes still grappling with what to dot next. In the meanwhile, they will write to the press, complain to their MP, whine and whine.

[Unregistered]

Good to see such an informative exchange, I am quite confident the mass market and mid tier private market will at worst hold its prices for the next two quarters and start appreciating again closer year end as interest rates plunge and people realise its better to buy and enjoy the good yield,however it might happen sooner than that and for those who missed it the first time, will do so again if they put it off too late, its all about sustainability

[Unregistered]

Let me share my story to all the HDB owners.

I had stayed in 5-room HDB at Woodlands for the past 12 yrs. It was rented out last month for $2.1k per month after upgrading to a 3 bedder condo at Woodlands for 518k. My monthly instalment for this new home with bank is $1850, and was revised down to $1720 recently.
Now, My family got:
1. better life style.
2. free parking & facility.
3. surplus $380 ($2100-1720) monthly (i.e. 4.5k yearly)

Of course, i forked out deposit & stamp duty of 114k. (use to be fix-deposited for 2.8%, i.e 3k interest yearly, which well compensated by the month surplus from item #3).

As long as the mass market/mortgage interest/rental hold (which is highly possible), i will continue to enjoy positive return.

OK, the morale of the story:
Upgrade to mass market condo and rent out your HDB.

My advice:
Do your calculation. If return is positive, buy now, don't wait.....

[Unregistered]

Let me share my story to all the HDB owners.

I had stayed in 5-room HDB at Woodlands for the past 12 yrs. It was rented out last month for $2.1k per month after upgrading to a 3 bedder condo at Woodlands for 518k. My monthly instalment for this new home with bank is $1850, and was revised down to $1720 recently.
Now, My family got:
1. better life style.
2. free parking & facility.
3. surplus $380 ($2100-1720) monthly (i.e. 4.5k yearly)

Of course, i forked out deposit & stamp duty of 114k. (use to be fix-deposited for 2.8%, i.e 3k interest yearly, which well compensated by the month surplus from item #3).

As long as the mass market/mortgage interest/rental hold (which is highly possible), i will continue to enjoy positive return.

OK, the morale of the story:
Upgrade to mass market condo and rent out your HDB.

My advice:
Do your calculation. If return is positive, buy now, don't wait.....


well done! good for you & your family.
Enjoy a comfort & better lifestyle.

[Unregistered]

well done! good for you & your family.
Enjoy a comfort & better lifestyle.

Thanks.
You may get higher return if age younger.
Me already old, that's why monthly instalment is high.
Cheer,
Woodlander.

[Unregistered]

Let me share my story to all the HDB owners.

I had stayed in 5-room HDB at Woodlands for the past 12 yrs. It was rented out last month for $2.1k per month after upgrading to a 3 bedder condo at Woodlands for 518k. My monthly instalment for this new home with bank is $1850, and was revised down to $1720 recently.
Now, My family got:
1. better life style.
2. free parking & facility.
3. surplus $380 ($2100-1720) monthly (i.e. 4.5k yearly)

Of course, i forked out deposit & stamp duty of 114k. (use to be fix-deposited for 2.8%, i.e 3k interest yearly, which well compensated by the month surplus from item #3).

As long as the mass market/mortgage interest/rental hold (which is highly possible), i will continue to enjoy positive return.

OK, the morale of the story:
Upgrade to mass market condo and rent out your HDB.

My advice:
Do your calculation. If return is positive, buy now, don't wait.....

I intend to do the opposite from what you've done. When my condo gets TOP this coming November, I'm going to rent it out while I continue to stay in my HDB flat.

My condo was bought from developer 3 years ago also for around $500k. Now market value is around $900 k. TOP is November 2008.

Old condos around that area of similar size are being rented out for around $3 k. Hence my one completely new should be able to command more.

My monthly installment is around $1800. So I am going to have net surplus of $1200 per month. That's a net surplus of $14,400 per year.

Furthermore, out of the $1800 per month interest repayment, around $900 is for principal repayment and the other $900 for interest. Hence the interest alone is actually $900.

If you match rental to interest, that's $3000 vs $900 per month, or net surplus of $2100 per month. That's actually $25,200 per year.

I think you forgot to take that into consideration. Your net surplus should be higher than what you've calculated.

[Unregistered]

I intend to do the opposite from what you've done. When my condo gets TOP this coming November, I'm going to rent it out while I continue to stay in my HDB flat.

My condo was bought from developer 3 years ago also for around $500k. Now market value is around $900 k. TOP is November 2008.

Old condos around that area of similar size are being rented out for around $3 k. Hence my one completely new should be able to command more.

My monthly installment is around $1800. So I am going to have net surplus of $1200 per month. That's a net surplus of $14,400 per year.

Furthermore, out of the $1800 per month interest repayment, around $900 is for principal repayment and the other $900 for interest. Hence the interest alone is actually $900.

If you match rental to interest, that's $3000 vs $900 per month, or net surplus of $2100 per month. That's actually $25,200 per year.

I think you forgot to take that into consideration. Your net surplus should be higher than what you've calculated.
... but you have no condo lifestyle ...

[Unregistered]

3,000 apply for Boon Keng's condo-like flats, but only 460 sold

By Fiona Chan, Property Reporter


THOUSANDS of applications poured in for a condo-like Housing Board project in January - but as of last week, less than two-thirds of the flats had been taken up.

About 250 of the 714 units in City View @ Boon Keng remain unsold, said HSR Property Group, which is marketing the project.

These flats will be offered to the public, probably via a walk-in selection.

The leftover homes came as a surprise to market watchers, given that 3,500 applicants had vied for them.

This works out to five would-be buyers for each flat at City View, the second public housing project to be built by a private developer.

It boasts condo-like features such as timber floors, built-in wardrobes and air-conditioning.

All the applicants were given a chance to book the flats they wanted, said HSR project director Kellie Liew.

The selection process stretched over 20 days and ended last Thursday, with more than 3,000 potential deals falling through.

Developer Hoi Hup Sunway sold about 460 units, including six of the top-priced five-room units at $727,000 each, said Ms Liew.

But she added that some buyers backed out of their purchases due to the weakening property market, while others did not meet the required criteria to buy the flats.

[Unregistered]

3,000 apply for Boon Keng's condo-like flats, but only 460 sold

By Fiona Chan, Property Reporter


THOUSANDS of applications poured in for a condo-like Housing Board project in January - but as of last week, less than two-thirds of the flats had been taken up.

About 250 of the 714 units in City View @ Boon Keng remain unsold, said HSR Property Group, which is marketing the project.

These flats will be offered to the public, probably via a walk-in selection.

The leftover homes came as a surprise to market watchers, given that 3,500 applicants had vied for them.

This works out to five would-be buyers for each flat at City View, the second public housing project to be built by a private developer.

It boasts condo-like features such as timber floors, built-in wardrobes and air-conditioning.

All the applicants were given a chance to book the flats they wanted, said HSR project director Kellie Liew.

The selection process stretched over 20 days and ended last Thursday, with more than 3,000 potential deals falling through.

Developer Hoi Hup Sunway sold about 460 units, including six of the top-priced five-room units at $727,000 each, said Ms Liew.

But she added that some buyers backed out of their purchases due to the weakening property market, while others did not meet the required criteria to buy the flats.





some did not meet the required criteria, how many?
Wait for STI to hit 3300 in 1-2 months time, people will start to camp outside HDB to grab those leftover units, real opportunists.

[Unregistered]

some did not meet the required criteria, how many?
Wait for STI to hit 3300 in 1-2 months time, people will start to camp outside HDB to grab those leftover units, real opportunists.
Oh my God no takers for cheap condos too....whats going on? As predicted its dead. Speculators gasping for breath but no oxygen available. Sure dead ones.

[Unregistered]

Oh my God no takers for cheap condos too....whats going on? As predicted its dead. Speculators gasping for breath but no oxygen available. Sure dead ones.
Prices still going up. OK lah.

[Unregistered]

Prices still going up. OK lah.
Yes price going up negative. That good too.

[Unregistered]

some did not meet the required criteria, how many?
Wait for STI to hit 3300 in 1-2 months time, people will start to camp outside HDB to grab those leftover units, real opportunists.
Are you talking from experience?

[Unregistered]

Are you talking from experience?

For me yes. Failed to buy HDB flats and ECs a few times years ago. Finally quitted job for 2 months to buy an EC. After moving in, both changed jobs and combined income was around $25-30k.

So yes. Looking back. Very frustrating during those applications.

[Unregistered]

For me yes. Failed to buy HDB flats and ECs a few times years ago. Finally quitted job for 2 months to buy an EC. After moving in, both changed jobs and combined income was around $25-30k.

So yes. Looking back. Very frustrating during those applications.
Did you quit your job again? Seems you are online on this forum 24 hrs.

[Unregistered]

Did you quit your job again? Seems you are online on this forum 24 hrs.

24 hours? You must have skipped your mathematics class right?
I only logged in at 11pm. How to clocked 24 hours?

[Unregistered]

Oh my God no takers for cheap condos too....whats going on? As predicted its dead. Speculators gasping for breath but no oxygen available. Sure dead ones.

They sold 460 units.

460 is not equal to zero.

I guess sour grapes are too stupid to understand that.

[Unregistered]

Did you quit your job again? Seems you are online on this forum 24 hrs.


24 hours? You must have skipped your mathematics class right?
I only logged in at 11pm. How to clocked 24 hours?

I think the sour grape himself is online 24 hrs that's why he thinks everyone also online 24 hrs.

Maybe as I suspected, there's only one sour grape who's online 24 hours posting all the rubbish.

That's why he suspected other people also online 24 hours.

[Unregistered]

They sold 460 units.

460 is not equal to zero.

I guess sour grapes are too stupid to understand that.


460 units are very good result with such price for HDB at this time.
Now 1 whole month, spore can only sell 100+ units, this is equavalent to 3 months of sale to whole spore can sell.

[Unregistered]

460 units are very good result with such price for HDB at this time.
Now 1 whole month, spore can only sell 100+ units, this is equavalent to 3 months of sale to whole spore can sell.

Absolutely, When you consider the simple fact that these design & build HDB flats commands $600 psf. This must a new benchmark for HDB new flats.

[Unregistered]

Oh my God no takers for cheap condos too....whats going on? As predicted its dead. Speculators gasping for breath but no oxygen available. Sure dead ones.
Developer may drop prices for the remaining units after TOP. Wait around and see.

[Unregistered]

I intend to do the opposite from what you've done. When my condo gets TOP this coming November, I'm going to rent it out while I continue to stay in my HDB flat.

My condo was bought from developer 3 years ago also for around $500k. Now market value is around $900 k. TOP is November 2008.

Old condos around that area of similar size are being rented out for around $3 k. Hence my one completely new should be able to command more.

My monthly installment is around $1800. So I am going to have net surplus of $1200 per month. That's a net surplus of $14,400 per year.

Furthermore, out of the $1800 per month interest repayment, around $900 is for principal repayment and the other $900 for interest. Hence the interest alone is actually $900.

If you match rental to interest, that's $3000 vs $900 per month, or net surplus of $2100 per month. That's actually $25,200 per year.

I think you forgot to take that into consideration. Your net surplus should be higher than what you've calculated.
You have good returns because you bought cheap in 2005.

Anyone who buys now will have only half of your returns.

[Unregistered]

Developer may drop prices for the remaining units after TOP. Wait around and see.


They will follow market trend to move up the price instead.
They already make the money, no hurry for them to clear, as building cost increases further, they will ride on it.

[Unregistered]

I saw lots of buyers showing up at my condo last week and this week. Think they are fed up of waiting for prices to fall. It is not happening. Think they are smart to strike a deal now as sellers more reasonable now with cloud of uncertainties in the US. If US manage to soft land their economy and avert a total collapse in their banking system and wider economy, the market will start to cheong again

I think you are absolutely right.

Just last week end, when I was in the coffee shop and mall, wherever I turned I saw ppl enthusiastly flipping the "Straits Times" home classified pages searching for resale ppty.

What I can conclude is that buyers are massive out there hungry for good deal. They are very desperate about a house. Seller should hold on your unit, don't let go easily or else you'll be regret.

[Unregistered]

I think you are absolutely right.

Just last week end, when I was in the coffee shop and mall, wherever I turned I saw ppl enthusiastly flipping the "Straits Times" home classified pages searching for resale ppty.

What I can conclude is that buyers are massive out there hungry for good deal. They are very desperate about a house. Seller should hold on your unit, don't let go easily or else you'll be regret.


sure, hold on. with price moves up slowly, low volume, buyers will be squeezed in time to come. The longer they wait, the worse it becomes.

[Unregistered]

I think you are absolutely right.

Just last week end, when I was in the coffee shop and mall, wherever I turned I saw ppl enthusiastly flipping the "Straits Times" home classified pages searching for resale ppty.

What I can conclude is that buyers are massive out there hungry for good deal. They are very desperate about a house. Seller should hold on your unit, don't let go easily or else you'll be regret.

Just look at DBSS flats Cityview@Boon Keng, not even EC status. No facilities and still the developer nmanage to sell 460+ units @$600 psf. Buyers for this upscale HDB flat need to wait 2-3 years for construction and another 5 years for minimum occupation period. Total 8 years before you resell it. I am surprised at the strength of the market. Market is still very hot considering the amount of uncertainties out there especially with the US financial crisis. unbelievable.

[Unregistered]

The STI stock market index has plunged about 20% from its peak, but the URA property index still seems to move up exponentially.

How can this be?

Let’s study the STI graph superimposed over the URA property index graph. Both graphs are scaled such that their time axes coincide, and their Asian financial crisis bottoms & dotcom peaks are at the same levels. STI is indicated by the dark blue line, while the pink line with blue crosses is for the URA index for condominiums (the other lines are for detached, semi-detached, terrace and apartments):

http://www.salary.sg/historical-prop...2008-large.gif

You should be able to see from the 2 graphs that the property bottom in end 1998 lagged the stocks bottom by about a quarter (i.e. 3 months). Similarly, the property peak in mid 2000 also lagged the stocks peak by about 1 to 2 quarters.

Now, fast forward to end 2007. The stock market has clearly tanked, amidst high inflation and comparatively stagnant salaries. But property is apparently still moving up, up and up! This can’t continue.

I hereby predict that property prices will plunge within the next 3 to 6 months. By at least 20%.

Want more evidence? In the last month (February), property developers were so spooked by the worsening economy that they launched only 343 units in the whole country, out of which only a miserable 170 got sold (excluding ECs). Oh yeah, maybe it’s the Chinese New Year.

References: URA news release and STI data in Yahoo! Finance.

[Unregistered]

There is no need to wait so long.
It's already crashing.
SIBOR is going drop to 0.75% soon.

Burn all the speculators.
Kill all the speculators.
When SIBOR hit 0.75%, there will be blood everywhere.

Die die die!
Ha ha ha!


http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Singapore interest rates likely to fall further
Fed cut and robust Sing$ could push interbank lending rate below 1%
Nicholas Fang
The Straits Times
Monday, 24 March 2008

Singaporeans can expect cheaper mortgages but lower savings and fixed deposit rates in the months to come.

This is after a move by the United States Federal Reserve to slash a key US interest rate last week.

The Fed had cut three-quarters of a point off its federal funds rate, bringing it to 2.25%, to fight a mushrooming credit crisis and a slowing US economy.

Economists in Singapore said the lowering of the Fed funds rate will have a knock- on effect in the Republic.

The Singapore Interbank Offered Rate (Sibor), or the rate at which banks lend to one another, tends to track the Fed rate.

Citigroup economist Kit Wei Zheng said: 'For Singapore rates, the trend is downwards. We expect the Fed to cut its rate to 1% and Singapore should follow with a lag.'

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii268/kcc0002/GoingDown24Mar08.jpg

He lowered his forecast for the Sibor, estimating it would fall to as low as 0.75% by the end of the third quarter, down from an earlier estimate of 1%.

A recent report by DBS Group Research also forecast the Sibor would fall, to 0.83% in the second quarter, and remain at that rate through the second half before rising next year.

The three-month Sibor fell to a 12-month low of 1.25% last Monday, before recovering to 1.425% on Thursday, ahead of the Good Friday public holiday.

Mr Kit said Singapore rates were also affected by the Singapore dollar's appreciation against the US currency. He said the Singdollar is most probably at the top end of the secret trade-weighted band within which the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) guides the currency.

'With the Singdollar expected to continue appreciating, MAS will aim to moderate it by flooding the market with liquidity, which will in turn pressure interest rates downwards,' he said.

OCBC economist Selena Ling said another consequence of the strong Singdollar would be a high inflow of foreign capital into the Republic. 'This can also contribute to lower interest rates.'

For consumers, the net result is both good and bad.

Banks recently embarked on a mortgage loan war, with Maybank firing the first salvo last month with an aggressive three-year, fixed-rate package offered at 1.68% for the first year.

DBS Bank and United Overseas Bank (UOB) have also unveiled attractive packages. UOB has one that offers a zero rate in the first year.

And with Sibor-linked home loan package rates likely to head south too, it could be a good time to refinance mortgage loans, experts said.

A DBS spokesman said: 'DBS offers transparent mortgage rates pegged to the Sibor and the CPF Ordinary Account rate, so our rates will move in tandem with market forces.'

But there is also the possibility that savings and fixed deposit rates could slump as interest rates go down.

OCBC's vice-president for group wealth management, Mr Fabian Lum, said the bank would review its deposit rates to keep them in line with prevailing market conditions.

And while the bank has not changed its savings rate recently, it lowered its 12-month fixed deposit rate for amounts between $50,000 and $1 million to 1.2% a year from 1.4% earlier this month.

DBS said that its savings deposit rates had not been adjusted since 2005, but added that its fixed deposit rates are always pegged to the interbank rate and would thus be adjusted accordingly.

CIMB-GK economist Song Seng Wun said that the low interest rates did not reflect a lack of liquidity on the part of banks. 'The loans-deposit ratio is still very strong, so banks definitely have the money to lend,' he said.

'But I think there is greater caution now, after what has happened in the US with the sub-prime crisis, and people are much more cautious nowadays when it comes to borrowing and lending money.'

[Unregistered]

HDB releases 2 land parcels under Reserve List for condominium development

By Wong Siew Ying, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 25 March 2008 2130 hrs


SINGAPORE : The Housing and Development Board is releasing two parcels of land for condominium housing under the Reserve List of the Government Land Sales programme.

One of them, at Jurong West Street 42, is for executive condominium housing, while the other at Chestnut Avenue is for private apartments.

Among the two sites, the one at Chestnut Avenue is expected to get more attention from developers.

Analysts said this is because of its attractive location, compared to the site at Jurong West Street 42, which is some 1.2 kilometres away from the nearest train station.

The proposed condominium project at Chestnut Avenue could yield about 400 to 450 units, which will be sold at between S$720 and S$750 per square foot on average.

Nicholas Mak, Director, Knight Frank, said, "This particular parcel at Chestnut Avenue...I think the developers might want to make it not so much mass market, but they may make it slightly mass to mid market and they may play on the fact that it is quite near to a park, so they may try to sell on its greenery aspect."

The plot at Jurong West for executive condominium housing is projected to yield about 420 to 460 units.

Both sites, with lease terms of 99 years, are on the Reserve List. This means they will only be released for sale by tender if developers commit to a minimum bid acceptable to the HDB.

However, market watchers expect rising construction costs to put pressure on the land price.

Mr Mak said, "For the executive condominium site, we can expect bids ranging from S$120 to S$160 per square foot per plot ratio, while for the private 99-year leasehold site, we could see a range of bids of about S$220 to about S$270 per square foot per plot ratio."

The potential developments are unlikely to have any immediate impact on property prices in the surrounding areas until the units are ready to be launched.

Industry watchers said the demand from developers for the two land parcels will be soft and it will depend on whether they are able to sell their current stock of inventory.

In addition, the developers are also expected to take a wait-and-see approach when it comes to bidding for the two sites, as they are on the Reserve List.

Separately, the HDB also released the provisional tender results for a 99-year leasehold condominium site at the junction of Yishun Avenue 1 and 2.

MCL Land put in the highest of the five bids at over S$213 million, some 68 percent more than the next bid from Peak Green.

Analysts said the bid reflected the confidence of developers in the mass market in 2009.

They added that there is a potential for the building of 15- to 18-storey apartments at the site, which could be marketed at around S$800 per square foot. - CNA/ms

[Unregistered]

Wah new record. Yishun also can go so high?

[Unregistered]

Wah new record. Yishun also can go so high?

Quite amazing! The few clowns who sold their Orchid Park condo at $460psf must be kicking themself silly for selling so low.

[Unregistered]

Wah new record. Yishun also can go so high?
You mean this new Yishun condo?

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Yishun condo site draws record bid of $213.5M
Fiona Chan
The Straits Times
Wednesday, 26 March 2008

A Yishun condominium site drew a higher-than-expected top bid when its tender closed yesterday, belying expectations of a property market slide.

Developer MCL Land offered $213.5 million for the 99-year leasehold plot, which works out to about $350 per sq ft per plot ratio (psf ppr) - believed to be a new benchmark for Yishun.

Property consultants said this could translate into the finished project selling at record prices for the area, even as home buyers are now holding out for lower prices in a subdued market.

Mr Nicholas Mak, director of research and consultancy at Knight Frank, estimated that the end units for the Yishun project could be priced from $830 psf up to almost $900 psf.

This would be almost double what the 99-year leasehold Orchid Park Condo down the road is fetching. Four units at the 14-year-old development have been sold there this year at an average price of $460 psf.

MCL Land's bid pipped four others and came in almost 70% higher than the next bid, from Peak Green, at $127 million, or $208 psf ppr.

Frasers Centrepoint, Sim Lian and Hong Kong's Cheung Kong also tabled offers ranging from $57.7 million to $109.7 million, or $95 to $180 psf ppr - which some consultants said were 'unrealistically low' bids. They had predicted bids of between $200 and $300 psf ppr.

But Mr Li Hiaw Ho, executive director of CBRE Research, said the response was 'fairly robust' and signalled 'developers' confidence in the suburban segment despite the current lukewarm response to new projects'.

'Should the United States enter a mild recession and the sub-prime problems clear up, sentiment for suburban homes should improve after June, bringing demand and upward price momentum back to the market.'

Experts described MCL Land's offer as 'extremely bullish' and suggested that the developer may be short on land bank in the mass market segment.

MCL Land said in its latest financial results that it bought some sites last year, including Holland Hill Mansions and Dynasty Court Garden 1 in Sixth Avenue. Its land bank can now yield 780 units with a total gross floor area of 1.4 million sqft.

The Yishun site is at the corner of Yishun Avenues 1 and 2, and is 10 minutes' walk from Khatib MRT Station. It is next to Yishun Stadium and overlooks Lower Seletar Reservoir.

'The site is good in that frontage to the reservoir is fantastic,' said Mr Ku Swee Yong, director of marketing and business development at Savills Singapore. 'I agree you should pay a premium for this site, but this seems to be a very significant premium.'

Separately, HDB yesterday put two more sites up for sale through its reserve list system.

One is a 182,986 sq ft plot at Jurong West Street 42 for executive condos, while the other is a 244,341 sq ft condo site at Chestnut Avenue in Bukit Panjang.


High Bid = High Home Prices?

Property consultants said the higher-than-expected offer by MCL Land could translate into the finished project selling at record prices for Yishun, even as home buyers are now holding out for lower prices in a subdued market.

[Unregistered]

Quite amazing! The few clowns who sold their Orchid Park condo at $460psf must be kicking themself silly for selling so low.

Or they can turn into a sour grape.

There is one other possibility.

Maybe MCL Land will get one of the contractors here who charges construction cost of $110 psf.

Then add to the $350 psf ppr of land cost, the breakeven price is $460 psf.

Then MCL Land sells at breakeven cost.

Then the price will be the same as the Orchid Park condo sale price of $460 psf you mentioned above.

[Unregistered]

Or they can turn into a sour grape.

There is one other possibility.

Maybe MCL Land will get one of the contractors here who charges construction cost of $110 psf.

Then add to the $350 psf ppr of land cost, the breakeven price is $460 psf.

Then MCL Land sells at breakeven cost.

Then the price will be the same as the Orchid Park condo sale price of $460 psf you mentioned above.

The contractor will use sour grapes seed composite as cement and sour grapes branches as reinforcement steel bar to achieve $110 psf construction cost. During soft launch all belonging to sour grapes club will get further 10% discount

[Unregistered]

The contractor will use sour grapes seed composite as cement and sour grapes branches as reinforcement steel bar to achieve $110 psf construction cost. During soft launch all belonging to sour grapes club will get further 10% discount

That's why I say don't anyhow sell away properties.

There are more people who regret selling away their properties than people who regret buying.

Sometimes you think the economy not good then you sell away your property, then next moment you get news like this that the land cost (without construction) nearby is worth almost the same as the unit psf price you sold away your property, can get heart pain (or Hokkiens say "Sim Tiah").

Then some people here say that developers will not go after en bloc properties anymore but go after state land, which is "cheaper".

That's not true, when every developer is going after the so-called "cheaper" state land, it's no longer cheap as they bid up the price.

Like in this case, MCL Land got the land for $350 psf ppr while Li Kashing's Billion Rise which placed a "cheeky bid" of $95 psf ppr does not get it.

On the other hand, Li Kashing's Billion Rise got the West Coast plot for around $305 psf ppr when it was serious, which narrowly defeated Far East's $301 psf ppr.

Recently in "The Edge" magazine. I read UOL's General Manager saying that they will go after state land, which is cheaper than buying en bloc. However, when every developer thinks the same, then state land is not going to be cheap anymore.

In fact, similar to en blocs, the State also has a reserve price. If the price is too low, like the 99-year landed plot bids of $77.80 psf ppr bid was too low, it was rejected and the site not awarded.

[Unregistered]

For me yes. Failed to buy HDB flats and ECs a few times years ago. Finally quitted job for 2 months to buy an EC. After moving in, both changed jobs and combined income was around $25-30k.

So yes. Looking back. Very frustrating during those applications.


You know what? I did almost the same thing as you did.

I was then living in a 3R HDB but needed to upgrade as baby was on the way, but wife and I were disqualified from another HDB because of our joint income, but we could not afford private housing.

So I looked for a new job which would allow me to start three months later. After quitting, I waited for two months to ensure that my CPF returns (contributions) were zero in order to file a SD that I was UNEMPLOYED. So I qualified for HDB flat again and once you filed in your application, they can't throw you out thereafter.

[Unregistered]

The contractor will use sour grapes seed composite as cement and sour grapes branches as reinforcement steel bar to achieve $110 psf construction cost. During soft launch all belonging to sour grapes club will get further 10% discount


The latest technology is MgO or dry walls -- no cement, no sand, no concrete. MgO is magnesium oxide as the main ingredient and MgO walls are less than one-third the weight of brick and concrete.

This reduces the overall load of the building reducing the costs of piling and foundation work, and as the walls are prefab dry walls, it speeds up construction time by a third, thereby reducing overall development costs (developers pay less for financing, etc.).

Believe in mother nature: when a problem becomes serious, a new solution will always be found.

Same for petrol. You can count on the new biofuels, especially biodiesel.

[Unregistered]

For me yes. Failed to buy HDB flats and ECs a few times years ago. Finally quitted job for 2 months to buy an EC. After moving in, both changed jobs and combined income was around $25-30k.

So yes. Looking back. Very frustrating during those applications.

You know what? I did almost the same thing as you did.

I was then living in a 3R HDB but needed to upgrade as baby was on the way, but wife and I were disqualified from another HDB because of our joint income, but we could not afford private housing.

So I looked for a new job which would allow me to start three months later. After quitting, I waited for two months to ensure that my CPF returns (contributions) were zero in order to file a SD that I was UNEMPLOYED. So I qualified for HDB flat again and once you filed in your application, they can't throw you out thereafter.
It was easier for me. I took an oath at the HDB office while I was jobless (as I have quitted) and then show it to the EC developer. Immediately upon the purchase, I took a new job which is more >$10k. The EC TOPed 4 months later and we moved in. 2 months later, my wife changed to a >$10k job too. With a combined income was around $25-30k, which is well above the ceiling of $10k, we should not have lived in an EC.

We were lucky then. However, not everyone is lucky.

Anyway, my point is that not everyone can buy a HDB flat or an EC. There are constraints in the real world.

[Unregistered]

It was easier for me. I took an oath at the HDB office while I was jobless (as I have quitted) and then show it to the EC developer. Immediately upon the purchase, I took a new job which is more >$10k. The EC TOPed 4 months later and we moved in. 2 months later, my wife changed to a >$10k job too. With a combined income was around $25-30k, which is well above the ceiling of $10k, we should not have lived in an EC.

We were lucky then. However, not everyone is lucky.

Anyway, my point is that not everyone can buy a HDB flat or an EC. There are constraints in the real world.

With combined monthly income of $25-$30k per month, why you want to live in an EC?

You can easily afford a condo in the central districts or landed property.

[Unregistered]

With combined monthly income of $25-$30k per month, why you want to live in an EC?

You can easily afford a condo in the central districts or landed property.
That salary came after we bought so .....

Although at around $900k, it is an EC so it is dirt cheap at around $320psf after grant. The extra cash we have allow us to invest. We have bought and sold a few condos. We may sell 1 or 2 and keep 1 or 2 for rental.

There is no "physical" difference between an EC and a mass-market condo. The differences are in the commercial aspects (purchase salary ceiling, when can sell, when an EC becomes a normal condo, etc.).

[Unregistered]

That salary came after we bought so .....

Although at around $900k, it is an EC so it is dirt cheap at around $320psf after grant. The extra cash we have allow us to invest. We have bought and sold a few condos. We may sell 1 or 2 and keep 1 or 2 for rental.

There is no "physical" difference between an EC and a mass-market condo. The differences are in the commercial aspects (purchase salary ceiling, when can sell, when an EC becomes a normal condo, etc.).

Wow! $900k at $320 psf.

That's a huge EC at around 2800 sf.

Now I can understand.

It's value for money.

[Unregistered]

It was easier for me. I took an oath at the HDB office while I was jobless (as I have quitted) and then show it to the EC developer. Immediately upon the purchase, I took a new job which is more >$10k. The EC TOPed 4 months later and we moved in. 2 months later, my wife changed to a >$10k job too. With a combined income was around $25-30k, which is well above the ceiling of $10k, we should not have lived in an EC.

We were lucky then. However, not everyone is lucky.

Anyway, my point is that not everyone can buy a HDB flat or an EC. There are constraints in the real world.
Hahaha moron. Many earning above your number friend. Was a good number 10 years ago. Not anymore. Thats not the point. Forum to showcase income or property?

[Unregistered]

Hahaha moron. Many earning above your number friend. Was a good number 10 years ago. Not anymore. Thats not the point. Forum to showcase income or property?

In today's standard, What is considered a good number then?
Comined monthly household inclome >20 K should be in the range of top 10% (very likely even top 5%). Is it good enough?

[Unregistered]

In today's standard, What is considered a good number then?
Comined monthly household inclome >20 K should be in the range of top 10% (very likely even top 5%). Is it good enough?
20k so? I go tiananmen biweekly and spend min $1200 ea. time. So?

[Unregistered]

Hahaha moron. Many earning above your number friend. Was a good number 10 years ago. Not anymore. Thats not the point. Forum to showcase income or property?

You are the one who is a moron.

He is just telling us about the challenges he faced when applying for EC due to the income limitation rules.

This forum is to showcase property, and income is related property, especially for properties that are subject to income limitation constraints.

But one thing I am pretty sure of is that this forum is not for sour grapes, who are definitely not amongst the "Many earning above your number friend.", whether 10 years ago, today, or 10 years later.

[Unregistered]

You are the one who is a moron.

He is just telling us about the challenges he faced when applying for EC due to the income limitation rules.

This forum is to showcase property, and income is related property, especially for properties that are subject to income limitation constraints.

But one thing I am pretty sure of is that this forum is not for sour grapes, who are definitely not amongst the "Many earning above your number friend.", whether 10 years ago, today, or 10 years later.Poor guys I pity you.

[Unregistered]

Poor guys I pity you.

Ya, I also used to have some sympathy for people left behind by the economic boom, such as those office workers caught in the rain at bus stops during a thunderstorm.

Not anymore.

Ever since I chanced upon this forum and realised how vicious the sour grapes are - constantly hoping for Singapore's economy to collapse and gleefully hoping that the US subprime problem will spread here so that the property market will collapse.

[Unregistered]

It was easier for me. I took an oath at the HDB office while I was jobless (as I have quitted) and then show it to the EC developer. Immediately upon the purchase, I took a new job which is more >$10k. The EC TOPed 4 months later and we moved in. 2 months later, my wife changed to a >$10k job too. With a combined income was around $25-30k, which is well above the ceiling of $10k, we should not have lived in an EC.

We were lucky then. However, not everyone is lucky.

Anyway, my point is that not everyone can buy a HDB flat or an EC. There are constraints in the real world.

Don't bullshit here. If your net income is $25k-30k (even if its after you have shifted to the EC), you won't be resorting to all these nonsense to buy an EC.
But you sure sound like a poor man trying to pose as a rich man. Asshole !!

[Unregistered]

Ya, I also used to have some sympathy for people left behind by the economic boom, such as those office workers caught in the rain at bus stops during a thunderstorm.

Not anymore.

Ever since I chanced upon this forum and realised how vicious the sour grapes are - constantly hoping for Singapore's economy to collapse and gleefully hoping that the US subprime problem will spread here so that the property market will collapse.

I do not think anyone hoping for singapore market to collapse ,its just that people care about each other and just warning others about the risk of investing/buying property in a downturn , which may happen due to current global economic conditions.

[Unregistered]

Don't bullshit here. If your net income is $25k-30k (even if its after you have shifted to the EC), you won't be resorting to all these nonsense to buy an EC.
But you sure sound like a poor man trying to pose as a rich man. Asshole !!
Why are you screaming at the poor guy? Just because he earns more than you? That is unfair friend. You will always find someone earning more than you.

[Unregistered]

I do not think anyone hoping for singapore market to collapse ,its just that people care about each other and just warning others about the risk of investing/buying property in a downturn , which may happen due to current global economic conditions.

If these sour grapes genuinely care about other people, their posts wouldn't come with "Woohahaha" praying that propery investors will become bankrupt if the market crashes, as they hoped it would.

Perhaps you are new to this forum. Go read some of the old posts by these sour grapes, then you will know what I mean.

And look at that "Asshole" above. He obviously cannot stand people buying Executive Condos and gets agitated by people earning $25k to $30k per month.

What is so unbelievable about earning $30k per month? If you check up IRAS' lattest annual report 2006/7, there are 44,480 taxpayers in Singapore earning more than $200k per annum.

Most people in this forum here who invest in properties should be above this income bracket. Otherwise how will the banks lend us money for multiple properties, if you just show them that you earn a paltry $100k per year?

The problem with sour grapes' disbelief and unacceptance of the existence of such incomes is that they mix around with people who earn no where near these levels.

That's why when the Ministers increased their pay to benchmark against the private sector, many sour grapes are unhappy.

The ministerial benchmark salaries are actually very reasonable and in fact, are a discount to the private sector income for equivalent positions. I am pretty sure K Shanmugam must have taken a tremendous paycut to become Minister of Law.

But to the sour grapes, the ministerial salaries are so sky high and unbelievable and totally beyond their comprehension. That's why they come up with remarks like "Asshole" whenever they hear of people earning significant incomes.

The source of the problem is that, most likely, the sour grapes work in some lowly positions in industries like manufacturing located in Pioneer Circle or Woodlands Industrial Park where their manager earns maybe $5k per month, and their divisional manager earns $8k per month and their operations director earns $12k per month, which to them is an astronomical salary. Maybe vaguely they might have heard of their own CEO earning more than that, but then the CEO would hardly have ever met them. Or perhaps the CEO also visits this forum and is scared of being called an "Asshole" by his own staff.

Therefore, the sour grapes cannot comprehend who in this world can possibly earn $25k to $30k per month. Hence the ministerial salaries of $2 million a year is even more unbelievable. That's why that EC guy who said he earned $25k to $30k per month in the post above got described as an "Asshole".

[Unregistered]

If these sour grapes genuinely care about other people, their posts wouldn't come with "Woohahaha" praying that propery investors will become bankrupt if the market crashes, as they hoped it would.

Perhaps you are new to this forum. Go read some of the old posts by these sour grapes, then you will know what I mean.

And look at that "Asshole" above. He obviously cannot stand people buying Executive Condos and gets agitated by people earning $25k to $30k per month.

What is so unbelievable about earning $30k per month? If you check up IRAS' lattest annual report 2006/7, there are 44,480 taxpayers in Singapore earning more than $200k per annum.

Most people in this forum here who invest in properties should be above this income bracket. Otherwise how will the banks lend us money for multiple properties, if you just show them that you earn a paltry $100k per year?

The problem with sour grapes' disbelief and unacceptance of the existence of such incomes is that they mix around with people who earn no where near these levels.

That's why when the Ministers increased their pay to benchmark against the private sector, many sour grapes are unhappy.

The ministerial benchmark salaries are actually very reasonable and in fact, are a discount to the private sector income for equivalent positions. I am pretty sure K Shanmugam must have taken a tremendous paycut to become Minister of Law.

But to the sour grapes, the ministerial salaries are so sky high and unbelievable and totally beyond their comprehension. That's why they come up with remarks like "Asshole" whenever they hear of people earning significant incomes.

The source of the problem is that, most likely, the sour grapes work in some lowly positions in industries like manufacturing located in Pioneer Circle or Woodlands Industrial Park where their manager earns maybe $5k per month, and their divisional manager earns $8k per month and their operations director earns $12k per month, which to them is an astronomical salary. Maybe vaguely they might have heard of their own CEO earning more than that, but then the CEO would hardly have ever met them. Or perhaps the CEO also visits this forum and is scared of being called an "Asshole" by his own staff.

Therefore, the sour grapes cannot comprehend who in this world can possibly earn $25k to $30k per month. Hence the ministerial salaries of $2 million a year is even more unbelievable. That's why that EC guy who said he earned $25k to $30k per month in the post above got described as an "Asshole".
That EC guy is you yourself. Pathetic to hear morons brag about their 'salary'. Too cheap people around. And to imagine if we get these ones as a neighbour somewhere. Anyway glad that these ones won't step into the core districts with their 200K salaries. It would bring down the value of teh CCR's.

[Unregistered]

That EC guy is you yourself. Pathetic to hear morons brag about their 'salary'. Too cheap people around. And to imagine if we get these ones as a neighbour somewhere. Anyway glad that these ones won't step into the core districts with their 200K salaries. It would bring down the value of teh CCR's.
Very well said friend. They can talk about the 200K salaries only in this Mass market and mid-tier thread. With that number they can only look at dist 9, 10 & 11 from far away....but anyone can dream what...no harm in dreaming unless you sleep walk to the core districts and get run down.

[The EC Asshole]

Just logged in and realised so many responded to my posting last night. Anyway, the subject isn't on who made more/less but who can/can't buy what. My apology for mentioning income. It will be my last posting on this thread. I don't want to get myself into trouble with the ....

[The EC Asshole]

Just logged in and realised so many responded to my posting last night. Anyway, the subject isn't on who made more/less but who can/can't buy what. My apology for mentioning income. It will be my last posting on this thread. I don't want to get myself into trouble with the ....
Sorry once again....my mistake for mentioning my salary. I thought mine was low and all of you made much more than me. But i realise that people here are poorer than me. Sorry once again. I quit...

[Unregistered]

Just logged in and realised so many responded to my posting last night. Anyway, the subject isn't on who made more/less but who can/can't buy what. My apology for mentioning income. It will be my last posting on this thread. I don't want to get myself into trouble with the ....
What kind of trouble? Buying and selling a few condos?

[Unregistered]

Sorry once again....my mistake for mentioning my salary. I thought mine was low and all of you made much more than me. But i realise that people here are poorer than me. Sorry once again. I quit...
hey EC Asshole 2 : are you a quitter ? why quit ? come join us !

[Unregistered]

Very well said friend. They can talk about the 200K salaries only in this Mass market and mid-tier thread. With that number they can only look at dist 9, 10 & 11 from far away....but anyone can dream what...no harm in dreaming unless you sleep walk to the core districts and get run down.

I agree. Well said.

[Unregistered]

That EC guy is you yourself. Pathetic to hear morons brag about their 'salary'. Too cheap people around. And to imagine if we get these ones as a neighbour somewhere. Anyway glad that these ones won't step into the core districts with their 200K salaries. It would bring down the value of teh CCR's.

You stupid sour grape are the pathetic moron yourself.

You think everyone is like you so 无聊, go around pretending to be yourself and talk to yourself in the forum ah?

You yourself must be doing it all the time, that's why you have this stupid idea and go around suspecting that everyone here is pretending to be themselves.

以小人之心，度君子之腹.

Translated for those who don't understand Chinese:

"A despicable person thinks that the gentleman also does the same despicable things as himself".

[Unregistered]

That EC guy is you yourself. Pathetic to hear morons brag about their 'salary'. Too cheap people around. And to imagine if we get these ones as a neighbour somewhere. Anyway glad that these ones won't step into the core districts with their 200K salaries. It would bring down the value of teh CCR's.


Very well said friend. They can talk about the 200K salaries only in this Mass market and mid-tier thread. With that number they can only look at dist 9, 10 & 11 from far away....but anyone can dream what...no harm in dreaming unless you sleep walk to the core districts and get run down.

Sour Grape(s), the more you post, the greater your ignorance shows.

District 9, 10 and 11 are not homogeneous.

Maybe to you they appear the same because you are from far away, and all the prices of condos there are beyond your reach in 100 lifetimes. But I can assure you that they are not all the same.

The District 10 areas of Ardmore/Cuscaden/Draycott area may truly be beyond someone earning $200k+ p.a. Condos there cost at least $3 M to $4 M each and a person earning $200k+ p.a. would take almost a whole lifetime to accumulate that much.

The District 9 areas of Cairnhill is a bit cheaper. Some of the smaller units around here are selling for $1.7 M to $2.2 M. Quite a stretch for someone earning $200k+ p.a., unless he is willing to forgo other luxuries in life.

District 11, however, is a different story. Condos there, for example, Park Infinia at Wee Nam, Newton Suites etc. are reasonably priced. For example, some smaller units at Park Infinia were transacted at $1.1 M to $1.3 M in January 2008. For someone earning $200k+ per year, that's definitely affordable.

This is Sour Grape Ignorance No. 6 - SGI6 (I think I can compile a book soon).

After talking about SGI6, now for Sour Grape Paradox 3 (SGP3).

The sour grapes above pretended that they stay in the Core Central Region (CCR) and that people who earn $200k+ p.a. are too "cheap" to be their neighbours.

Here is the paradox:

If a person stays in a luxurious condo in the CCR, then this person should be on the side of "Mad Bulls" and should hope that property prices rise, like what someone here says, "Huat Ah!".

So why is this person a sour grape leh?

I was trying to think where this sour grape could be located within the CCR ... perhaps some of the older apartments.

But then these apartments usaully have en bloc potential and cost a bomb. If the sour grapes stay in these apartments, the more they should hope the property market rise so that they can pull off their en bloc and earn their millions.

Despite my knowledge of properties, I must admit that I can't really figure out where these sour grapes are located. Even those old run down shop units at Lucky Plaza and Ming Arcade are worth a lot now.

Even Orchard Towers, the infamous "Four Floors of Whores", is now talking about en bloc, so even if sour grape is a whore, he should still cheer the property market.

Unless he is just a tenant there ... hmmm ...

This is a really the strangest Sour Grape Paradox (SGP) so far.

[Unregistered]

Sour Grape(s), the more you post, the greater your ignorance shows.

District 9, 10 and 11 are not homogeneous.

Maybe to you they appear the same because you are from far away, and all the prices of condos there are beyond your reach in 100 lifetimes. But I can assure you that they are not all the same.

The District 10 areas of Ardmore/Cuscaden/Draycott area may truly be beyond someone earning $200k+ p.a. Condos there cost at least $3 M to $4 M each and a person earning $200k+ p.a. would take almost a whole lifetime to accumulate that much.

The District 9 areas of Cairnhill is a bit cheaper. Some of the smaller units around here are selling for $1.7 M to $2.2 M. Quite a stretch for someone earning $200k+ p.a., unless he is willing to forgo other luxuries in life.

District 11, however, is a different story. Condos there, for example, Park Infinia at Wee Nam, Newton Suites etc. are reasonably priced. For example, some smaller units at Park Infinia were transacted at $1.1 M to $1.3 M in January 2008. For someone earning $200k+ per year, that's definitely affordable.

This is Sour Grape Ignorance No. 6 - SGI6 (I think I can compile a book soon).

After talking about SGI6, now for Sour Grape Paradox 3 (SGP3).

The sour grapes above pretended that they stay in the Core Central Region (CCR) and that people who earn $200k+ p.a. are too "cheap" to be their neighbours.

Here is the paradox:

If a person stays in a luxurious condo in the CCR, then this person should be on the side of "Mad Bulls" and should hope that property prices rise, like what someone here says, "Huat Ah!".

So why is this person a sour grape leh?

I was trying to think where this sour grape could be located within the CCR ... perhaps some of the older apartments.

But then these apartments usaully have en bloc potential and cost a bomb. If the sour grapes stay in these apartments, the more they should hope the property market rise so that they can pull off their en bloc and earn their millions.

Despite my knowledge of properties, I must admit that I can't really figure out where these sour grapes are located. Even those old run down shop units at Lucky Plaza and Ming Arcade are worth a lot now.

Even Orchard Towers, the infamous "Four Floors of Whores", is now talking about en bloc, so even if sour grape is a whore, he should still cheer the property market.

Unless he is just a tenant there ... hmmm ...

This is a really the strangest Sour Grape Paradox (SGP) so far.
LOL POOR FELLOW. TO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN LAID OFF AND HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW FOR LENGTHY POSTS.

[Unregistered]

LOL POOR FELLOW. TO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN LAID OFF AND HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW FOR LENGTHY POSTS.
Naughty boy...you really stepped on his toe. See how he went beserk with his post. Didn't you know that he is stuckkkkkkkkkkkk? Have some concern for them please. ;)

[Unregistered]

LOL POOR FELLOW. TO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN LAID OFF AND HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW FOR LENGTHY POSTS.

The fact that he has all the time in the world to post does suggests that who ever this person is, he is probably already very well off. I will hazard a guess from reading his posts that he must have made a significant fortune through real estate investments. I can tell by reading the posts in this forum whether someone is in denial, an astute investor or in some cases someone who is hollow and a sour grape.

[Unregistered]

Sour Grape(s), the more you post, the greater your ignorance shows.

District 9, 10 and 11 are not homogeneous.

Maybe to you they appear the same because you are from far away, and all the prices of condos there are beyond your reach in 100 lifetimes. But I can assure you that they are not all the same.

The District 10 areas of Ardmore/Cuscaden/Draycott area may truly be beyond someone earning $200k+ p.a. Condos there cost at least $3 M to $4 M each and a person earning $200k+ p.a. would take almost a whole lifetime to accumulate that much.

The District 9 areas of Cairnhill is a bit cheaper. Some of the smaller units around here are selling for $1.7 M to $2.2 M. Quite a stretch for someone earning $200k+ p.a., unless he is willing to forgo other luxuries in life.

District 11, however, is a different story. Condos there, for example, Park Infinia at Wee Nam, Newton Suites etc. are reasonably priced. For example, some smaller units at Park Infinia were transacted at $1.1 M to $1.3 M in January 2008. For someone earning $200k+ per year, that's definitely affordable.

This is Sour Grape Ignorance No. 6 - SGI6 (I think I can compile a book soon).

After talking about SGI6, now for Sour Grape Paradox 3 (SGP3).

The sour grapes above pretended that they stay in the Core Central Region (CCR) and that people who earn $200k+ p.a. are too "cheap" to be their neighbours.

Here is the paradox:

If a person stays in a luxurious condo in the CCR, then this person should be on the side of "Mad Bulls" and should hope that property prices rise, like what someone here says, "Huat Ah!".

So why is this person a sour grape leh?

I was trying to think where this sour grape could be located within the CCR ... perhaps some of the older apartments.

But then these apartments usaully have en bloc potential and cost a bomb. If the sour grapes stay in these apartments, the more they should hope the property market rise so that they can pull off their en bloc and earn their millions.

Despite my knowledge of properties, I must admit that I can't really figure out where these sour grapes are located. Even those old run down shop units at Lucky Plaza and Ming Arcade are worth a lot now.

Even Orchard Towers, the infamous "Four Floors of Whores", is now talking about en bloc, so even if sour grape is a whore, he should still cheer the property market.

Unless he is just a tenant there ... hmmm ...

This is a really the strangest Sour Grape Paradox (SGP) so far.

this guy knows his stuff. factual and insightful

[Unregistered]

this guy knows his stuff. factual and insightful
This guy has no other work. Got all teh time in the world to keep posting. You dont need to know stuff...he just copies and pastes all the time.

[HDB]

Went to view some HDB units two weeks ago. Saw one quite nice unit, although not exactly ideal, we showed some interest by asking more about the unit. Agent said interest very strong. But I was surprised to received a call from her just now asking if we have made a decision or not. Actually we are still hesitant - the CoV is still quite high, so is the valuation. Still a bit off budget.

[Unregistered]

What is she talking about?

"Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

but

"And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?

Tis moment, buyers are scoutting around for best deal., but are not committing for anything. so this is call buyer market.

There is no collapse of price and developers yet at this moment. thats is y call remaining strong.

[Unregistered]

Tis moment, buyers are scoutting around for best deal., but are not committing for anything. so this is call buyer market.

There is no collapse of price and developers yet at this moment. thats is y call remaining strong.
Well holding without increase sales is the beginning of a turnaround from sellers market to buyers market. Watch out for the tumbling prices coming soon to your neighbourhood.

[Unregistered]

Well holding without increase sales is the beginning of a turnaround from sellers market to buyers market. Watch out for the tumbling prices coming soon to your neighbourhood.Sellers (developer/investor/speculator/home owner) are very confident in Singapore painted picture, 2 big IR. Most of the sellers are rich and have very strong holding power.
Yes, economy condition may cause some hip cup. But it will not change sellers mind set. Because they can hold till 2 super IR super boom time. Those who hope for 2005 property price level in comming months before IR completed will be very disappointed.

[Unregistered]

Sellers (developer/investor/speculator/home owner) are very confident in Singapore painted picture, 2 big IR. Most of the sellers are rich and have very strong holding power.
Yes, economy condition may cause some hip cup. But it will not change sellers mind set. Because they can hold till 2 super IR super boom time. Those who hope for 2005 property price level in comming months before IR completed will be very disappointed.

no need to talk about 2005 pricing, don' think you can get 1H 2007 pricing also even with the US sub prime mess. Remember Singapore is going to be the mother of all hubs.

[Unregistered]

no need to talk about 2005 pricing, don' think you can get 1H 2007 pricing also even with the US sub prime mess. Remember Singapore is going to be the mother of all hubs.
This time downturn going to be mother of all downturns. Thats why we hear the SOS...Stuckkkkk Ohhhhhhhh Stuckkkkkk.

[Unregistered]

no need to talk about 2005 pricing, don' think you can get 1H 2007 pricing also even with the US sub prime mess. Remember Singapore is going to be the mother of all hubs.
Bigger mess will be coming soon which will leave sub prime behind. Mark these words.

[blackjack21trader]

All the talks about the coming tumble is making me very nervous...very very nervous....

[Unregistered]

All the talks about the coming tumble is making me very nervous...very very nervous....
Not u and i are nervious...... the whole property sector will be nerious n choatic.............. all sellers desperate for buyers n buyers all taking cover, finally cheap is the normal/standard words for buyers to use. take care

[Unregistered]

Sellers (developer/investor/speculator/home owner) are very confident in Singapore painted picture, 2 big IR. Most of the sellers are rich and have very strong holding power.
Yes, economy condition may cause some hip cup. But it will not change sellers mind set. Because they can hold till 2 super IR super boom time. Those who hope for 2005 property price level in comming months before IR completed will be very disappointed.
Y 2 IR super boom? u mean those ppl are professional gamblers who can win money to pay off their loan? Y seller mind set cannot be changed? They haven start srevicing their loan yet. wait until they start collecting their key n service their loan..... they go soft........To come down to 2005 property price is not possible but price coming down to whatever level is headache inmagin all property price sold now is very high compare 2000

[Unregistered]

All the talks about the coming tumble is making me very nervous...very very nervous....
Are you being satirical? These market talkdowns have been around for some time already. If employment and wages are not falling, I really don't think property prices will fall much as people are still able to service their loans and able to hold. I think COE prices are a better leading indicator of the wealth effect of Singaporeans.

[Unregistered]

Are you being satirical? These market talkdowns have been around for some time already. If employment and wages are not falling, I really don't think property prices will fall much as people are still able to service their loans and able to hold. I think COE prices are a better leading indicator of the wealth effect of Singaporeans.
COE prices up. car price down. think cant compare with the health of economy.

[HDB]

Sorry, I maybe a bit densed. What have IRs and F1s got to do with property sales? Does it mean that people who come here to gamble and race cars will all buy properties? Just for a few days' stay or what? Is it the same for Macau and Las Vegas?

[Unregistered]

Sorry, I maybe a bit densed. What have IRs and F1s got to do with property sales? Does it mean that people who come here to gamble and race cars will all buy properties? Just for a few days' stay or what? Is it the same for Macau and Las Vegas?
Tats actually is wat i want to say. they will be here onli if their hometown economy is also doing well. take for example now the sub-prime issue. r these ppl coming? all will be inter-linked especially singapore, our country. whish is.the most sensitive country in the world. in stocks, we depend on DJ for direction, In property, we depend on foriegn buyer, in labour we depend on FT. etc

[Unregistered]

But we are talking about mass market and mid-tier here, not the luxury or high end properties which I agree will probably continue to fall. Mass market will continue to rise although slower pace this year.

[Unregistered]

But we are talking about mass market and mid-tier here, not the luxury or high end properties which I agree will probably continue to fall. Mass market will continue to rise although slower pace this year.
In terms of property price, Luxury or High end will rise faster than any others, but drop slower than others, therefore dun be mislead by others info that middle or lower ends not effected. fyi hdb flats are also slower n lower in prices

[Unregistered]

Sour Grape(s), the more you post, the greater your ignorance shows.

District 9, 10 and 11 are not homogeneous.

Maybe to you they appear the same because you are from far away, and all the prices of condos there are beyond your reach in 100 lifetimes. But I can assure you that they are not all the same.

The District 10 areas of Ardmore/Cuscaden/Draycott area may truly be beyond someone earning $200k+ p.a. Condos there cost at least $3 M to $4 M each and a person earning $200k+ p.a. would take almost a whole lifetime to accumulate that much.

The District 9 areas of Cairnhill is a bit cheaper. Some of the smaller units around here are selling for $1.7 M to $2.2 M. Quite a stretch for someone earning $200k+ p.a., unless he is willing to forgo other luxuries in life.

District 11, however, is a different story. Condos there, for example, Park Infinia at Wee Nam, Newton Suites etc. are reasonably priced. For example, some smaller units at Park Infinia were transacted at $1.1 M to $1.3 M in January 2008. For someone earning $200k+ per year, that's definitely affordable.

This is Sour Grape Ignorance No. 6 - SGI6 (I think I can compile a book soon).

After talking about SGI6, now for Sour Grape Paradox 3 (SGP3).

The sour grapes above pretended that they stay in the Core Central Region (CCR) and that people who earn $200k+ p.a. are too "cheap" to be their neighbours.

Here is the paradox:

If a person stays in a luxurious condo in the CCR, then this person should be on the side of "Mad Bulls" and should hope that property prices rise, like what someone here says, "Huat Ah!".

So why is this person a sour grape leh?

I was trying to think where this sour grape could be located within the CCR ... perhaps some of the older apartments.

But then these apartments usaully have en bloc potential and cost a bomb. If the sour grapes stay in these apartments, the more they should hope the property market rise so that they can pull off their en bloc and earn their millions.

Despite my knowledge of properties, I must admit that I can't really figure out where these sour grapes are located. Even those old run down shop units at Lucky Plaza and Ming Arcade are worth a lot now.

Even Orchard Towers, the infamous "Four Floors of Whores", is now talking about en bloc, so even if sour grape is a whore, he should still cheer the property market.

Unless he is just a tenant there ... hmmm ...

This is a really the strangest Sour Grape Paradox (SGP) so far.

Full of shit asshole..

[Unregistered]

Sorry once again....my mistake for mentioning my salary. I thought mine was low and all of you made much more than me. But i realise that people here are poorer than me. Sorry once again. I quit...

Full of shit asshole...

[Unregistered]

If these sour grapes genuinely care about other people, their posts wouldn't come with "Woohahaha" praying that propery investors will become bankrupt if the market crashes, as they hoped it would.

Perhaps you are new to this forum. Go read some of the old posts by these sour grapes, then you will know what I mean.

And look at that "Asshole" above. He obviously cannot stand people buying Executive Condos and gets agitated by people earning $25k to $30k per month.

What is so unbelievable about earning $30k per month? If you check up IRAS' lattest annual report 2006/7, there are 44,480 taxpayers in Singapore earning more than $200k per annum.

Most people in this forum here who invest in properties should be above this income bracket. Otherwise how will the banks lend us money for multiple properties, if you just show them that you earn a paltry $100k per year?

The problem with sour grapes' disbelief and unacceptance of the existence of such incomes is that they mix around with people who earn no where near these levels.

That's why when the Ministers increased their pay to benchmark against the private sector, many sour grapes are unhappy.

The ministerial benchmark salaries are actually very reasonable and in fact, are a discount to the private sector income for equivalent positions. I am pretty sure K Shanmugam must have taken a tremendous paycut to become Minister of Law.

But to the sour grapes, the ministerial salaries are so sky high and unbelievable and totally beyond their comprehension. That's why they come up with remarks like "Asshole" whenever they hear of people earning significant incomes.

The source of the problem is that, most likely, the sour grapes work in some lowly positions in industries like manufacturing located in Pioneer Circle or Woodlands Industrial Park where their manager earns maybe $5k per month, and their divisional manager earns $8k per month and their operations director earns $12k per month, which to them is an astronomical salary. Maybe vaguely they might have heard of their own CEO earning more than that, but then the CEO would hardly have ever met them. Or perhaps the CEO also visits this forum and is scared of being called an "Asshole" by his own staff.

Therefore, the sour grapes cannot comprehend who in this world can possibly earn $25k to $30k per month. Hence the ministerial salaries of $2 million a year is even more unbelievable. That's why that EC guy who said he earned $25k to $30k per month in the post above got described as an "Asshole".

Good story. You a fiction writer ??

[Unregistered]

If these sour grapes genuinely care about other people, their posts wouldn't come with "Woohahaha" praying that propery investors will become bankrupt if the market crashes, as they hoped it would.

Perhaps you are new to this forum. Go read some of the old posts by these sour grapes, then you will know what I mean.

And look at that "Asshole" above. He obviously cannot stand people buying Executive Condos and gets agitated by people earning $25k to $30k per month.

What is so unbelievable about earning $30k per month? If you check up IRAS' lattest annual report 2006/7, there are 44,480 taxpayers in Singapore earning more than $200k per annum.

Most people in this forum here who invest in properties should be above this income bracket. Otherwise how will the banks lend us money for multiple properties, if you just show them that you earn a paltry $100k per year?

The problem with sour grapes' disbelief and unacceptance of the existence of such incomes is that they mix around with people who earn no where near these levels.

That's why when the Ministers increased their pay to benchmark against the private sector, many sour grapes are unhappy.

The ministerial benchmark salaries are actually very reasonable and in fact, are a discount to the private sector income for equivalent positions. I am pretty sure K Shanmugam must have taken a tremendous paycut to become Minister of Law.

But to the sour grapes, the ministerial salaries are so sky high and unbelievable and totally beyond their comprehension. That's why they come up with remarks like "Asshole" whenever they hear of people earning significant incomes.

The source of the problem is that, most likely, the sour grapes work in some lowly positions in industries like manufacturing located in Pioneer Circle or Woodlands Industrial Park where their manager earns maybe $5k per month, and their divisional manager earns $8k per month and their operations director earns $12k per month, which to them is an astronomical salary. Maybe vaguely they might have heard of their own CEO earning more than that, but then the CEO would hardly have ever met them. Or perhaps the CEO also visits this forum and is scared of being called an "Asshole" by his own staff.

Therefore, the sour grapes cannot comprehend who in this world can possibly earn $25k to $30k per month. Hence the ministerial salaries of $2 million a year is even more unbelievable. That's why that EC guy who said he earned $25k to $30k per month in the post above got described as an "Asshole".

I think your father is one of the workers holding a job in Pioneer Circle. So why scold your father ?? Mad man.

[Unregistered]

COE prices up. car price down. think cant compare with the health of economy.
COE up more than car price down. Net result buyers still able and willing to fork out more money for a sure-lose, depreciating piece of asset running on higher petrol costs to put up with more road congestion. Why? Got jobs so must travel => healthy economy. Got pay rise so more discretionary spending => buy car, buy properties. But kiasu, kiasi mentality keep them at the sidelines for the moment, not because they cannot afford. Developers know this so they also reluctant to reduce price. But those who speculate and cannot hold will give up. Once the speculators (lucky not many of them) are flushed out, new buyers will enter and then developers will increase price again, fuelling another round of euphoria.

[Unregistered]

In terms of property price, Luxury or High end will rise faster than any others, but drop slower than others, therefore dun be mislead by others info that middle or lower ends not effected. fyi hdb flats are also slower n lower in prices
Are you sure? High end can rise faster than others but also drop faster. Middle or low end will also be affected, but to lesser degree. This is because high end prices are driven mostly by short term speculators, middle or low end are mostly driven by long term home owners.

[Unregistered]

COE up more than car price down. Net result buyers still able and willing to fork out more money for a sure-lose, depreciating piece of asset running on higher petrol costs to put up with more road congestion. Why? Got jobs so must travel => healthy economy. Got pay rise so more discretionary spending => buy car, buy properties. But kiasu, kiasi mentality keep them at the sidelines for the moment, not because they cannot afford. Developers know this so they also reluctant to reduce price. But those who speculate and cannot hold will give up. Once the speculators (lucky not many of them) are flushed out, new buyers will enter and then developers will increase price again, fuelling another round of euphoria.

This is irrational exerberance. Inflation is getting so high and we are seeing a sliding trend in the GDP which mean that we are heading towards stagflation. Those properties are at sky high price and yet you are thinking of euphoria in the future. Good luck to you.

[Unregistered]

Are you sure? High end can rise faster than others but also drop faster. Middle or low end will also be affected, but to lesser degree. This is because high end prices are driven mostly by short term speculators, middle or low end are mostly driven by long term home owners.
Too late now. Everything is dropping. Didn't you hear some shout SOS? Stuckkkkkkk Ohhhhhhhhhhh Stuckkkkkkk.....

[HDB]

Well, I am a bit worried. If I buy another HDB, I may not be able to sell mine.
So holding back for now, because prices are so so ex. Heard that there were some people retrenched in Dec still not found jobs. Now they say financial market may weaken. Everything so expensive.

[Unregistered]

Well, I am a bit worried. If I buy another HDB, I may not be able to sell mine.
So holding back for now, because prices are so so ex. Heard that there were some people retrenched in Dec still not found jobs. Now they say financial market may weaken. Everything so expensive.
Yes don't worry, prices have started dropping and will come tumbling down as more and more enblocs go sour and more and more supply in the market. Already agents are chasing buyers offering hefty discounts. Everything is negotiable now unlike 6 months ago.

[Unregistered]

Yes don't worry, prices have started dropping and will come tumbling down as more and more enblocs go sour and more and more supply in the market. Already agents are chasing buyers offering hefty discounts. Everything is negotiable now unlike 6 months ago.
These are the speculators. Once they get flushed out, those with real money will move in. Inflation high, that's exactly why they will not want to hold cash for too long. What better assets to buy then than properties in Singapore? For now, we see softening to let some hot air out, but we won't see the same kind of price deflation as the mid 90s that lasted for almost a decade. The rebound this time will be much faster, much stronger. There's a lot of cash out there waiting to buy over from the weak hands this round, unlike the last.

[Unregistered]

These are the speculators. Once they get flushed out, those with real money will move in. Inflation high, that's exactly why they will not want to hold cash for too long. What better assets to buy then than properties in Singapore? For now, we see softening to let some hot air out, but we won't see the same kind of price deflation as the mid 90s that lasted for almost a decade. The rebound this time will be much faster, much stronger. There's a lot of cash out there waiting to buy over from the weak hands this round, unlike the last.
All the cash would go to markets hit badly like US where prices could double in the next 3-5 years. Upside limited in markets like HK and Singapore. Selling wave has started already. Go out and check with your agent.

[Unregistered]

Payrolls May Have Slumped for Third Month: U.S. Economy
Preview

By Bob Willis

March 30 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. lost jobs for a third month in March and manufacturing contracted at the fastest pace in five years, signs the economy continues to turn down, economists said before reports this week.

Payrolls probably shrank by 50,000, according to the median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News before the Labor Department's April 4 report. The last time the economy lost jobs for at least three consecutive months coincided with the start of the Iraq War in 2003.

``The economy has slipped into a recession,'' said Ethan Harris, chief U.S. economist at Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. in New York. ``We expect the labor market to weaken, with payrolls falling steadily through the middle of next year.''

Job losses, slumping confidence and the biggest plunge in housing in a generation all point to a slowdown in consumer spending that will weaken growth. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke will testify before Congress this week after lowering interest rates and extending credit to non-banks in an attempt to calm financial markets.

The projected decrease in payrolls would follow a decline of 63,000 in February and a smaller drop in January. The jobless rate likely rose to 5 percent from 4.8 percent, the survey said.

Factory payrolls in March probably shrank by 40,000 workers, reflecting automakers' efforts to trim costs and a strike at a suppler for General Motors Corp., economists project the jobs report may show.

Strike's Influence

A walkout by workers at American Axle & Manufacturing over pay and benefits that started on Feb. 26 has idled almost half of GM's North American workforce. The payroll figures may be reduced by as much as 20,000 workers because of the effects of the strike, according to Morgan Stanley economist David Greenlaw.

Ford Motor Co., which lost $15.3 billion in the past two years, may cut more jobs in North America, Chief Executive Officer Alan Mulally said earlier this month.

``The old ways of doing business are gone,'' Joe Hinrichs, Ford's manufacturing chief, and Marty Mulloy, vice president of labor affairs, said in a March 19 commentary sent to newspapers in communities where Ford has plants. ``We must continue to downsize and simply will not have enough jobs for all of our current hourly workers.''

Job losses in financial markets are also mounting following the collapse in subprime lending.

Wall Street banks hit by mortgage losses and writedowns have cut more than 34,000 jobs in the past nine months, the most since the dot-com boom fizzled in 2001, according to the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association.

Job Losses

This year, banks including Lehman, Citigroup Inc. and Morgan Stanley have been reducing staff in fixed income trading, securitization and investment banking. So far, Lehman has eliminated 18 percent of its workforce, Morgan Stanley has cut 6.2 percent, and Merrill Lynch & Co. has trimmed 4.5 percent.

``Rising unemployment should continue to slow wage growth, adding to the strain on consumers,'' said Lehman's Harris.

Manufacturers are retrenching as demand weakens. The Tempe, Arizona-based Institute for Supply Management may report April 1 that its factory index fell to 47.5 this month, the lowest level since April 2003, from 48.3 in February, according to the survey median. A reading of 50 is the dividing line between expansion and contraction.

The following day, the Commerce Department may report that factory orders in February dropped 0.8 percent following a 2.5 percent decline the prior month.

Services Contract

In another sign that the housing recession is dragging down other areas, service industries contracted for a third month in March, the ISM is projected to report on April 3.

The group's non-manufacturing index, which covers 90 percent of the economy, fell to 48.5 this month, from 49.3 in February, according to the median forecast. Services haven't contracted for three consecutive months since 2001-2002, when the economy was emerging from the last recession.

``The tightening of credit conditions and the deepening of the housing contraction are likely to weigh on economic growth over the next few quarters,'' the Fed said March 18 following its last policy meeting. ``Growth in consumer spending has slowed and labor markets have softened.''

Bernanke will elaborate on the outlook before the Joint Economic Committee of Congress on April 2.

Seeking to ease credit, restore confidence to financial markets and cushion the slowdown, the Fed on March 18 lowered its key rate by three-quarters of a point and vowed to act ``as needed'' to cushion the economy. The Fed has cut the benchmark rate by 3 percentage points since September.

[Unregistered]

All the cash would go to markets hit badly like US where prices could double in the next 3-5 years. Upside limited in markets like HK and Singapore. Selling wave has started already. Go out and check with your agent.
With the depreciating USD and ever increasing debt, the world will not want to hold US assets as it used to be. Even US companies are diversifying their business and capital out of US into Asia to take advantage of its rich natural resources, labour and consumers. Asia will continue to rise and Asian assets will increase in value. Singapore is now well positioned to take advantage of this shift. Upside limited? Look further than the agent.

[Unregistered]

With the depreciating USD and ever increasing debt, the world will not want to hold US assets as it used to be. Even US companies are diversifying their business and capital out of US into Asia to take advantage of its rich natural resources, labour and consumers. Asia will continue to rise and Asian assets will increase in value. Singapore is now well positioned to take advantage of this shift. Upside limited? Look further than the agent.
Yes job cuts coming here soon. Economy cannot decouple from that of US. Upside for US$ soon. Inflation in Asia will soon be double digit. It is already in many countries of the middle east. Only downside for property here. Stagflation is a reality now.

[Unregistered]

Yes job cuts coming here soon. Economy cannot decouple from that of US. Upside for US$ soon. Inflation in Asia will soon be double digit. It is already in many countries of the middle east. Only downside for property here. Stagflation is a reality now.
What are you going to do with your money then? Put in bank yielding interest that can't even beat half the inflation rate?

[HDB]

Conflicting views. I think I had better go with my own gut feel. I will wait a while. Prices may not be as low previously, but certainly can be lower than now. Agree that agents are more willing to negotiate these days, more friendly too.

[Think]

US president:Obama,Clinton or Macburger whatever.Not so great all of them.Europe.France have Sarskovy ...his face bad karma.Great britain...Mr.Brown like the HK movies.Other European leaders can you remember who is who for the other countries in Europe?
In Asia everybody knows Who? or Hu for China.Ma for Taiwan ,Fujitsu for Japan.LHL and LKY are world renown.
The future of the world is Asia.Forget about America who is controlled by Isreal.

[Unregistered]

What are you going to do with your money then? Put in bank yielding interest that can't even beat half the inflation rate?
There are many avenues that are open now....but money is not everything in life. Don't run after money. Too much of it is injurious to health.

[HDB]

Hi post #141, put money in the bank, money shrinks. Buy property now, also can lose money in future. Which is the lesser of the 2 evils?

[Unregistered]

Hi post #141, put money in the bank, money shrinks. Buy property now, also can lose money in future. Which is the lesser of the 2 evils?
Put money in bank, money shrinks. Buy property now, can win in future. Which is better?

[Unregistered]

Friday, Mar. 28 2008

U.K. House Price Growth Slowest For 12 Years: Nationwide

LONDON -- U.K. house prices fell 0.6% in March, according to figures from the Nationwide building society out Friday. Prices have now fallen for the fifth month in a row and are growing at the slowest rate for twelve years. On an annualized basis, house prices rose by 1.1% in March -- a level not seen since March 1996 -- compared to growth of 2.7% a month ago. "The path for house prices in 2008 still looks set to remain within our forecast range. We expect a modest fall in house prices during the year," said Fionnuala Earley, Nationwide's chief economist.

[Unregistered]

Put money in bank, money shrinks. Buy property now, can win in future. Which is better?
Put money in bank in right currency. It can be a winner too.

[Unregistered]

Put money in bank, money shrinks. Buy property now, can win in future. Which is better?
money shrinks better than money lose in property. wait for brighter market and entr cash rich

[Unregistered]

money shrinks better than money lose in property. wait for brighter market and entr cash rich
money win in property better than money shrink in bank. Timing the market can turn up surprises.

[Unregistered]

Put money in bank in right currency. It can be a winner too.
I agree, provided foreign exchange risks are managed.

[Unregistered]

Business confidence takes a dive
Posted on March 25, 2008 by aldurvale
Business Times - 24 Mar 2008

BT-UniSIM survey shows companies gloomy about next six months, despite strong orders

(SINGAPORE) Business confidence in Singapore has slumped to its lowest level since end-2004, according to the latest business climate survey by The Business Times (BT) and SIM University (UniSIM).

While sales and profit figures were largely unchanged in the three months to Dec 31, 2007, prospects have fallen dramatically for the next six months, the poll of 128 companies revealed.

This was despite companies reporting a strong pipeline of orders and new business. Some 71 per cent of the firms polled have overseas businesses.

Chow Kit Boey, director of the quarterly BT-UniSIM survey, said: ‘I think the firms may be overly pessimistic because of the grim prospects in the US economy, accompanying volatile and weak stock markets and rising oil prices.’

She said that improved orders and new business numbers suggest that the Singapore economy would not suffer too badly in the first quarter of 2008, given the low growth rate a year ago and the largely successful air show in February.

The quarter marked the 17th successive one with positive net balances in sales and orders as well as new business, she added. ‘This implies that the slowdown could be mild. It appears that the economy could grow at a faster rate in Q1 2008 than in Q4 of 2007.’

Economists polled recently by the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) pared their first-quarter growth forecast to a median 5.7 per cent from 7 per cent previously, slightly higher than the 5.4 per cent recorded in Q4 2007.

The BT-UniSIM survey showed that the business prospects net balance - the difference between the percentage of optimistic and pessimistic companies - fell to 20 per cent, from 39 per cent in the third quarter of the year. This was itself a sharp drop from an average of 57 per cent for the first half of 2007, showing how confidence has crashed in recent months.

The drop was particularly severe among large and local firms, whose net balances dropped by more than half from the previous quarter. But foreign firms were about as confident as they were in the preceding three months and, intriguingly, small firms were much more upbeat - net balance for the segment tripled to 26 per cent from 8 per cent.

The overall poor sentiment was partly balanced by healthy orders and new business numbers. The overall net balance - the difference between those reporting more orders or new business and those reporting fewer - rose slightly to 39 per cent, from 32 per cent in the third quarter.

But conditions varied widely across firms. Small companies reported a net balance of minus-one per cent, though still an improvement on the previous quarter (-12 per cent). Foreign companies recorded a net balance of 51 per cent, up from 26 per cent previously.

Among sectors, financial and business services was the star performer for the quarter. It had the highest net balances in sales, profits and orders, and new business.

Firms in the construction sector were the most confident of business prospects for the next six months for the eighth quarter running.

Foreign firms recorded the best performances for Q4, with the largest increases in net balances for sales, profits and orders, and new business. Local firms saw the biggest decline, owing partly to weaker profits, said Ms Chow.

And comparing overall and overseas sales, orders and prospects showed that domestic business activities were stronger in the fourth quarter. In the previous three months, businesses found better sales and orders overseas. But small and local firms still saw better prospects from their foreign operations, while foreign and large firms were more optimistic on the local market.

Vietnam is also fast climbing the charts as a favoured investment destination. China and India were the other frontrunners but ‘Vietnam has gained much popularity as an investment destination by almost all types of firms’, said Ms Chow.

The BT-UniSIM survey was launched in 1996 and is now in its 13th year.

[Unregistered]

All the cash would go to markets hit badly like US where prices could double in the next 3-5 years. Upside limited in markets like HK and Singapore. Selling wave has started already. Go out and check with your agent.


With the depreciating USD and ever increasing debt, the world will not want to hold US assets as it used to be. Even US companies are diversifying their business and capital out of US into Asia to take advantage of its rich natural resources, labour and consumers. Asia will continue to rise and Asian assets will increase in value. Singapore is now well positioned to take advantage of this shift. Upside limited? Look further than the agent.

Ah HAH !!!

Sour Grape Paradox 4 (SGP4) detected ! Beep! Beep! Beep!

Look carefully at the Sour Grape's post above.

He says "Selling wave has started already. Go out and check with your agent."

Selling wave has started??? Yet the developers just last week bid so bullishly for the government sites one after another, at Westcoast (Li Kashing's Cheung Kong Billion Rise), Yishun (MCL Land) and Serangoon MRT Site (Pramerica Golden Ridge Fund)?

These developers are committing hundreds of millions of dollars, you mean they won't check out with the agents regarding sentiment on the ground before putting in their bids?

Who has contacts with more agents?

Sour Grape? Or the property developers?

Hmmm ... another Sour Grape trying to bullshit people.

But never mind, just fill up the "Go out and Check With You Agents" form below and you will see the picture more clearly.

1. Number of agents whom Sour Grape "go out and check" _____________

2. Number of agents whom Li Kashing's Cheung Kong Group "go out and check" before they put in their bid for the West Coast site _____________

3. Number of agents whom MCL Land "go out and check" before they put in their bid for the Yishun Site _____________

4. Number of agents whom Pramerica Golden Ridge Group "go out and check" before they put in their bid for the Serangoon MRT Site _____________

I only know the answer to one of the questions above. The answer is "zero".

[Unregistered]

LOL POOR FELLOW. TO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN LAID OFF AND HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW FOR LENGTHY POSTS.

A person who has all the time in the world for lengthy posts must be "laid off"?

Sour grapes probably haven't had the opportunity to play mahjong with some of these rich tai tais who've got nothing better to do in their life.

Oh dear, now we can all see what pitiful class of people sour grapes belong to.

In sour grape's world, only people who are "laid off" can have lots of free time in the world.

[Unregistered]

LOL POOR FELLOW. TO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN LAID OFF AND HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW FOR LENGTHY POSTS.


The fact that he has all the time in the world to post does suggests that who ever this person is, he is probably already very well off. I will hazard a guess from reading his posts that he must have made a significant fortune through real estate investments. I can tell by reading the posts in this forum whether someone is in denial, an astute investor or in some cases someone who is hollow and a sour grape.

I am that "poor fellow" who made the length posts.

You are a very sharp person.

Your guesses about me are all correct.

But I can foresee what the sour grapes are going to say ... they'll probably say that you and I are the same person.

They even said that the EC guy and I were the same person.

[Unregistered]

I think your father is one of the workers holding a job in Pioneer Circle. So why scold your father ?? Mad man.

Why you so agitated about "Pioneer Circle"?

Did the post hit a raw nerve?

[HDB]

I hear that government bonds are pretty good investments, pay better than FD. Can some kind soul tell me how to buy these? Actually on thinking over, leaving money in the bank with some interest, it will not shrink as badly as, if property prices slide. That one will lose interest, stamp duties, capital investment, really a whole lot more. Some agents also telling me that rentals are not as good as before. Tenants are more selective if they have the budget.

[Unregistered]

LOL POOR FELLOW. TO THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN LAID OFF AND HAS ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW FOR LENGTHY POSTS.

The fact that he has all the time in the world to post does suggests that who ever this person is, he is probably already very well off. I will hazard a guess from reading his posts that he must have made a significant fortune through real estate investments. I can tell by reading the posts in this forum whether someone is in denial, an astute investor or in some cases someone who is hollow and a sour grape.

I am that "poor fellow" who made the length posts.

You are a very sharp person.

Your guesses about me are all correct.

But I can foresee what the sour grapes are going to say ... they'll probably say that you and I are the same person.

They even said that the EC guy and I were the same person.
Those laid off, will not bother to spend time posting here.

[Unregistered]

money win in property better than money shrink in bank. Timing the market can turn up surprises.
How r u so certain money can be win in tis time of market. n wat surprise can u expect in tis market, maybe lose until wake up no underwear is also a surprise
to u. dun mislead, in this market, it pays to be extra careful, enter only coast clear, there r many house for u to buy, how many can u buy? Money shrink is better than money disappeared n left with unwantd baby to carry.

[Unregistered]

Yes don't worry, prices have started dropping and will come tumbling down as more and more enblocs go sour and more and more supply in the market. Already agents are chasing buyers offering hefty discounts. Everything is negotiable now unlike 6 months ago.
Are you sure you are talking sense?
Which part is dropping?

The latest figures show it is still going up.
Can you please check your facts before you comment?

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/CNAlogo.gif
HDB and private property prices up in Q1 flash estimates
Channel NewsAsia
Tuesday, 1 April 2008, 1345 hrs

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/imagegallery/store/phpqVz7c1.jpg

Private residential property prices in Singapore rose 4.2% in the first quarter this year, according to the latest preliminary estimates from the Urban Redevelopment Authority.

The pace was slower than the 6.8% clip recorded in the fourth quarter of last year.

On a quarter on quarter basis, the biggest rise in property prices for non-landed properties came from the central districts just outside the prime postal districts of 9, 10 and 11.

Prices in these central areas (i.e. RCR) increased 7.7% in January to March, compared with the October to December period.

Properties in the prime districts of 9, 10 and 11, as well as the downtown area and Sentosa (i.e. CCR), rose 7.5% on quarter.

And those in the rest of Singapore (i.e. OCR) advanced about 7% in the first quarter from the previous three months.

The preliminary estimates are based on transaction prices given in caveats lodged during the first 10 weeks of the quarter, as well as the number of new units sold.

Meantime, the Housing and Development Board says prices of HDB resale flats rose 3.4% in the January to March period over the previous three months.

This is lower than the 5.7% increase in the fourth quarter.

Both the URA and HDB will release final figures at the end of April.

The URA said in its release, that as at 4th Quarter 2007,there are about 64,900 private residential units in the pipeline, of which about 56,100 new private housing units are expected to be completed between 2008 and 2011.

There are also some 38,300 units that have yet to be put on sale by developers.

As for the supply of government flats, the HDB said it had made available in the first quarter of this year, some 1,100 new flats in two Build-To-Order (BTO) projects in Punggol and Yishun.

It said that depending on demand, there could be another 5,000 new BTO flats in towns such as Punggol, Sengkang, Woodlands and Bukit Panjang.

The total planned BTO supply of 6,100 new flats for January till September 2008 will surpass the annual BTO flat supply in 2007 and 2006.

This new supply of flats will be in addition to those offered under Balloting Exercises for surplus replacement SERS and other flats, as well as the planned release of three Design-and-Build sites in Simei, Toa Payoh and Bedok with some 1,500 flats in the 1st half of 2008.

[Unregistered]

Are you sure you are talking sense?
Which part is dropping?

The latest figures show it is still going up.
Can you please check your facts before you comment?
Yes, it is indeed going up.
4.2% for Q1.

[Unregistered]

Singapore home sales seen slumping to 5-year lows
By Daryl Loo

SINGAPORE, March 17 (Reuters) - Singapore homes sales in February almost halved from the previous month, and could slump this quarter to the lowest since the SARS epidemic in 2003 as surging inflation and global economic fears keep buyers at bay.

The government on Monday said 170 private homes were sold in February, less than a tenth of the homes sold last August when Singapore was still in the midst of a two-year property upswing.

The abrupt slowdown this year is hitting shares for property developers but could take some pressure off inflation that is at the highest level in 25 years.
After January saw 316 homes sold, property analysts are predicting that total sales for the first three months of this year will be between 700-800 units, the weakest in five years.

"The only two other periods when the Singapore residential market experienced such low sales volume were during the SARS period in the first quarter of 2003 when 427 new homes were sold, and during the Asian financial crisis in the fourth quarter of 1997 when 894 units were sold," said Li Hiaw Ho, research director of property consultancy CB Richard Ellis.

So far the jury is out on how much the drop in demand has hit home prices. Private home prices in Singapore surged 31 percent last year to their highest in over ten years and near the peak of mid-1996 just before the Asian financial crisis.

High-end homes, typically those priced at above S$1,800 ($1,302) per square foot, saw the greatest jump, while the increase was more moderate for homes in the mass market segment.

But the price increase slowed in the fourth quarter as steps taken by the authorities to curb real estate market speculation took effect, including a move in October to bar developers from selling uncompleted homes on a deferred payment scheme.

"The sales figures for February were stunningly low... Buyers are becoming very conservative, although prices seem to have held up," said Jones Lang LaSalle research head Chua Yang Liang.

LAUNCH DELAYS

Reflecting the cautious mood, some developers have delayed their property launches, evident in the 343 units put up for sale in February, against 410 units in January and 445 in December.

KepLand, which is building the 221-unit Marina Bay Suites luxury apartments with Hong Kong Land and Cheung Kong, said in January that it would delay the project until the end of the Lunar New Year holiday in mid-February.
"We're still waiting for instructions to launch," said Margaret Thean, executive director of property agency DTZ, which has been appointed to market the project.

There have also been newspaper reports of property speculators who bought units last year with hopes of a speedy sale for a quick profit, but who are now being forced to sell at steep discounts due to the drop in demand. But it may not to be time to go bargain hunting just yet.

"While anecdotal evidence of lower transacted prices from desperate speculators looking to liquidate their positions have yet to be fully recognised by the entire market, the risk of a downward spiral effect in residential prices remains," Morgan Stanley analyst Melissa Bon said in a report this month.

"In addition, the bottoming out of private rental vacancies and likely peaking of rentals may put downward pressure on residential prices," she said.

The U.S. brokerage has downgraded CityDev to "underweight" for its exposure to the Singapore home market, and expects prices in the mid to high-end sectors to drop 15 percent this year, compared to its previous expectations for a 15 percent rise.

ABN AMRO analyst Fera Wirawan said homes catering to the mass market could still rise at least 5 percent as prices in this segment had not run up as much.

"It's all about sentiments now. Buyers are holding off in anticipation of a price cut. Even if developers refuse to decrease the price, especially in the high end, they can't hold out for long if the volumes stagnant like this," she said. (Editing by Neil Chatterjee)

Its all coming down for sure...

[Unregistered]

Singapore home sales seen slumping to 5-year lows
By Daryl Loo
..............

Its all coming down for sure...
Hey born loser!

Why keep muliplte-posting your 3-week-old news anywhere in the forum?
Why not post a 3-month-old or 3-year-old news in all the threads?

Anyway, price increased by 4.2%. No old writing can change that.

Go post a 3-year-old news here. It may help you, loser!

[Unregistered]

Published April 1, 2008

OUTLOOK
Asia's property market shines
Global investors are showing a lot of interest in Asia because of the region's strong economic fundamentals, reports UMA SHANKARI

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THE future for investment markets across the world is mixed, but Asia should emerge from the current turmoil as the most attractive location, property analysts say.



Lower risks: Difficulties for foreigners in developing markets may mean increasing interest in Singapore and Hong Kong, perceived as easier to invest in
Coming off the sub-prime crisis in the US, global investors are showing a lot of interest in Asia because of the region's strong economic fundamentals and problems in other markets.

According to Donald Han, managing director of Cushman & Wakefield (C&W), 20-30 per cent of the investors looking at Asia have dropped off since the sub-prime crisis - but the rest are still interested.

'If there were 10 investors looking at an allocation of assets into Asia before the sub-prime problem, now there are six or seven still looking,' he said.

Ong Choon Fah, executive director and regional head of consulting and research at property firm DTZ, agrees.


'In the US, there are mainly sellers, not buyers. Here, there are still buyers looking to put money into Asia, as the potential for growth remains.'

- Donald Han,
managing director of Cushman & Wakefield



'Concern over the US and global economies, as well as the credit squeeze, will continue to impact sentiment in the investment market,' she said. 'But prospects remain cautiously optimistic as institutional funds look towards Asia for growth opportunities.'

Citigroup economists Huang Yiping and Chua Hak Bin pointed out similarly - in a recent note - that capital inflows into Asia could increase because of the region's robust fundamentals and resilient growth.

This growth is set to continue. Asian Development Bank president Haruhiko Kuroda said recently he sees Asia's growth overall growth moderating to only 7.5-8 per cent this year, from 8-8.5 per cent last year.

But the difficulty of finding good stock to invest in, combined with different regulatory and property rights regimes in different countries, remains a challenge for investors looking at Asia, a recent report from C&W noted.

'The majority of office stock in most Asia countries is owner-occupied,' it said. 'Compared with London and New York, the proportion of investment stock is low. Even Tokyo, the largest market in Asia, is only one third the size of London or New York by floor area.'

Development opportunities in Asia also vary greatly from country to country, and regulations governing foreign investment can change at short notice. China, for example, restricted entry to its real estate market in June 2007 in a bid to avoid hot foreign money creating bubbles in its property market.

Foreign investors now have to establish a real estate company before they can invest in a China project. Establishment, however, is heavily restricted, and investors cannot bypass regulations by acquiring or controlling a domestic real estate company.

But difficulties for foreigners in developing markets may mean increasing interest in Singapore and Hong Kong, which are perceived as easier Asian cities to invest in, C&W believes. Relatively transparent property rights and land registration systems - compared with other Asian cities - mean lower risk.

However, there is a downside of certain classes of investor - especially those with high gearing - falling by the wayside in amid tight credit markets.

For example, the lending squeeze has meant that traditional buyers such as real estate investment trusts (Reits) are holding off.

Reit managers in Singapore and the rest of the world have been growing their portfolios by using cheap credit.

But now, amid a volatile climate and liquidity squeeze, they are finding it more difficult to raise new funds by way of debt or equity, according to DMG & Partners analysts Terence Wong and Brandon Lee.

'Most notably, rising capital values of properties and higher costs of capital cannot only erode yields, but also lead to dilutive acquisitions,' they said in a recent note.

C&W's Mr Han reckons the pace of collective sales will also slow. 'The en bloc market will be a little quieter this year. It is yet to be seen if vendors will become more reasonable when it comes to pricing their properties, which will make them more attractive to buyers,' he said.

This could have an significant impact, especially in Singapore, where investment sales in 2007 were boosted by active Reit-related acquisitions and buoyant collective sales in the first half of the year.

'Investment sales in Singapore and Malaysia increased, driven by strong interest for income-generating buildings and the listing of several new Reits in 2007,' said DTZ. 'They were also boosted by strong collective sale of residential properties in Singapore during the first half of 2007.'

Although sentiment has turned, there are still buyers in the market. 'In the US, there are mainly sellers, not buyers,' said C&W's Mr Han. 'Here, there are still buyers looking to put money into Asia, as the potential for growth remains.'

In particular, investors with stable income - such as pension funds - are likely to be keen on Asia, analysts say.

Strong fundamentals mean the investment market will continue to do well in 2008, they believe.

For example, strong bidding at recent government sales of mass-market residential sites in Singapore shows there is still demand, Mr Han notes.

And DTZ believes investors in Singapore are likely to look towards non-traditional asset classes as yields of 'core' and 'core-plus' investment assets continue to compress.

[Unregistered]

Interesting analysis from Singapore expat forum. What do you guys say? Any views?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Singapore Property Going Down The Tubes?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sent my buddy an e-mail asking if it was a good time to buy property in Singapore...

He's a Hong Kong based Asia property analyst for a small successful private investment bank.
He sent me this....(don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.)

Quote:
Well...I would wait at least another 6 months to a year.

We told clients and investors to sell all Singapore holdings (property, stocks and everything else) in June 2007. We determined that prices would never, ever be higher and were predicting a 15% drop in pricing by March 2008 and 25% drop by June 2008.

Rationale was simple and not rocket science.

#1. There was no demand for housing when the boom started.
The vacancy rates on existing housing were above New York, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo and other major urban market levels. A Singapore property boom made no sense at all.

#2. Singapore GDP...nice impressive numbers. But the growth was 99% construction related. There is no economic growth when the construction boom ends and those numbers are subtracted from the total.

#3. The existing luxury housing vacancy levels in Singapore were adequate to fill the needs of Singaporeans and any possible influx of new senior executives for the next 5 years. Thus, there was no demand for executive luxury housing in the market.

#4. Value for money on Singapore property for foreign investors is not good when compared to other projected growth economies. (several factors are weighed including psf, quality of workmanship, size of economy, projected growth of economy, lifestyle and culture of the market.)

#4. The targeted future population numbers of Singapore are pie in the sky and completely without substance. Singaporeans are not having kids and the demand for jobs in Singapore will be service led lower paying jobs to supply the planned tourism developments. Non of these new inhabitants will be buying or renting condo's, especially in the high-end. And tourists visit, they don't buy or rent.

#5. Singapore is not a supply/demand driven economy. It is a small, managed economy. Thus, the property development plans were lofty, risky, and not based on future real supply/demand realities.

#6. There is a lack of real, transparent, objective information available in the Singapore market about the Singapore market. This leads to investors belief in hype and speculation rather than economic principles.

#7. Global money supplies and markets are taking a beating and will continue to take a beating. The second call on the sub prime products happens this June so more big losses are expected. This will stall or even damage the Singapore economy.

We expect distress sales in the property market to start soon. The high-end rental market is non-existent and the higher % of all unit sales were high-end investment property, speculator driven.
These buyers need "wealthy" renters to subsidize the million dollar mortgages. Most locals cannot afford the rents the market is demanding.
Surveys of multinational companies and banks have indicated that there is no boat-load of expats with a big housing allowance arriving at the Singapore port anytime soon. The new owner is now stuck with 100% of a very expensive monthly mortgage.

Here is an example of one major high-end development I'm following to prove the point. These are some very telling numbers.
600+ units launched
20+ remaining at $2,000 per square foot via the developer.
100+ units previously sold are now for sale privately less than 7 months after launch for $1,300 to $1,600 per square foot.
The reason...no rental income.
That tells me that property owners are willing to admit that market prices are down 25%+ already. Unfortunately, even at a 25% discount, there are no buyers.

Existing Singapore residents are keeping the rental market buoyant due to the fact they sold their old places and are waiting for the prices to drop...OR...waiting for their new unit to be completed. These people are relatively small in overall numbers and definitely not going to rent high end luxury units. They are driving HDB, middle priced housing rents up right now. They are also demanding 12 month leases or even less if they can get it proving that they are waiting to move or sitting on the sidelines waiting for prices to drop.

The Singapore property market is massively oversupplied today and more units are on the way. This is not good. This is should be extremely troublesome to anyone who owns property anywhere in that market. The potential valuation losses in the property market could be enormous, especially at the high-end. Overall prices could sink well below SARS levels and this could happen within 6 months to a year.

The short lived property boom was very much like a pyramid scheme.
It was all hype and no substance.
The first guys in are now smoking big cigars.
The last guys in are now left holding the ashtray.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Excellent post and thanks for this , I am cancelling my plans to buy property this year!!!!!!!
IAM CANCELLING TOO. WHY RUSH WHEN CAN SOON GET 40% LOWER.

[Unregistered]

Stop dreaming. You want 40% drop in prices? Wait till you get 40% drop in employment first.

[Unregistered]

Stop dreaming. You want 40% drop in prices? Wait till you get 40% drop in employment first.

Agreed, dream on

[Unregistered]

Economy Loses 80,000 Jobs, Worse Than Expected
By Reuters | 04 Apr 2008 | 08:32 AM ET

US employers cut payrolls for a third month in a row in March, slashing 80,000 jobs for the biggest monthly job decline in five years as the economy headed into a downturn, government data on Friday showed.


The Labor Department revised the first two months of the year's job losses to a total of 52,000 from a previous estimate of 85,000. The March unemployment rate jumped to 5.1 percent from 4.8 percent, the highest since a matching rate in September 2005.

The March job report was more bleak than expected.

Economists polled ahead of the report forecast a decline of 60,000 in non-farm payrolls and a rise in the unemployment rate to 5 percent.

"It's not a good number, clearly," said David Bianco, chief US equity strategist at UBS. "But the market has been braced for a bad number. Almost every investor equity and otherwise would acknowledge that we are in a recession but we still think it is a mild recession and we are going to have pretty good profit conditions in the S&P 500 for this quarter and for the rest of the year."

During the first quarter of this year job losses averaged 77,000 a month, compared to average monthly gains of 76,000 in the last half of 2007, according to Keith Hall, Bureau of Labor Statistics Commissioner.

Job losses were widespread during the month, with the biggest losses in the construction and manufacturing sectors.

[Unregistered]

We told clients and investors to sell all Singapore holdings (property, stocks and everything else) in June 2007. We determined that prices would never, ever be higher and were predicting a 15% drop in pricing by March 2008 and 25% drop by June 2008. Quote from above article.



Absolute rubbish predictions.Recent figures have proven that the property prices have not dropped for 1st quarter 2008 but have instead increased by 4.2%.

I feel that the report is severely bias & i dispute the fact that our GDP is 99% construction related. What about the growth in our financial sector which is so obvious just looking at the demand for office space . Maybe this guy is jealous of Singapore because of the number of financial instituitions relocating from HK to Singapore.

[Unregistered]

We told clients and investors to sell all Singapore holdings (property, stocks and everything else) in June 2007. We determined that prices would never, ever be higher and were predicting a 15% drop in pricing by March 2008 and 25% drop by June 2008. Quote from above article.



Absolute rubbish predictions.Recent figures have proven that the property prices have not dropped for 1st quarter 2008 but have instead increased by 4.2%.

I feel that the report is severely bias & i dispute the fact that our GDP is 99% construction related. What about the growth in our financial sector which is so obvious just looking at the demand for office space . Maybe this guy is jealous of Singapore because of the number of financial instituitions relocating from HK to Singapore.

Agreed, biggest lie and distortion I heard in a long time.

[Unregistered]

Agreed, biggest lie and distortion I heard in a long time.
Agreed too but what about stagnating sales. I am worried my unit may not sell.

[Unregistered]

I sent my buddy an e-mail asking if it was a good time to buy property in Singapore...

He's a Hong Kong based Asia property analyst for a small successful private investment bank.
He sent me this....(don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger.)

Quote:
Well...I would wait at least another 6 months to a year.

We told clients and investors to sell all Singapore holdings (property, stocks and everything else) in June 2007. We determined that prices would never, ever be higher and were predicting a 15% drop in pricing by March 2008 and 25% drop by June 2008.

Rationale was simple and not rocket science.

#1. There was no demand for housing when the boom started.
The vacancy rates on existing housing were above New York, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo and other major urban market levels. A Singapore property boom made no sense at all.

#2. Singapore GDP...nice impressive numbers. But the growth was 99% construction related. There is no economic growth when the construction boom ends and those numbers are subtracted from the total.

#3. The existing luxury housing vacancy levels in Singapore were adequate to fill the needs of Singaporeans and any possible influx of new senior executives for the next 5 years. Thus, there was no demand for executive luxury housing in the market.

#4. Value for money on Singapore property for foreign investors is not good when compared to other projected growth economies. (several factors are weighed including psf, quality of workmanship, size of economy, projected growth of economy, lifestyle and culture of the market.)

#4. The targeted future population numbers of Singapore are pie in the sky and completely without substance. Singaporeans are not having kids and the demand for jobs in Singapore will be service led lower paying jobs to supply the planned tourism developments. Non of these new inhabitants will be buying or renting condo's, especially in the high-end. And tourists visit, they don't buy or rent.

#5. Singapore is not a supply/demand driven economy. It is a small, managed economy. Thus, the property development plans were lofty, risky, and not based on future real supply/demand realities.

#6. There is a lack of real, transparent, objective information available in the Singapore market about the Singapore market. This leads to investors belief in hype and speculation rather than economic principles.

#7. Global money supplies and markets are taking a beating and will continue to take a beating. The second call on the sub prime products happens this June so more big losses are expected. This will stall or even damage the Singapore economy.

I have some questions for Mr. Hong Kong Property Analyst, can you be my "messenger" as well.

#1. ChannelNewsAsia on 27 February 2008 reported that "Last year, Singapore saw over 63,000 new PRs, an 11-per-cent increase from 2006; and the city-state also welcomed more than 17,000 new citizens, a 30-per-cent jump."

Every year, we have 63,000 + 17,000 = 80,000 new immigrants, that is not including foreigners who come here on employment pass (but not taking up citizenships or PRs).

What do you mean "no demand for housing"? May I know where these 80,000 people are going to stay? Inside the canals?

In case you are not familiar with Singapore, here is the news URL to our government broadcasting station regarding the news I quoted above.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/331492/1/.html

#2. ChannelNewsAsia reported on 10 August 2007 that Singapore's "Financial services expanded by 17 per cent in the second quarter, up from 14 per cent growth in the first quarter, while the construction sector grew by 18 per cent, the strongest growth in almost 10 years. Growth in the manufacturing sector picked up pace to 8.3 per cent."

No matter how I calculate, I don't know how you arrived at the figure that "growth was 99% construction related."?

In case you are not familiar with Singapore, here is the news URL to our government broadcasting station regarding the news I quoted above.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/293171/1/.html

#3. You said "The existing luxury housing vacancy levels in Singapore were adequate to fill the needs of Singaporeans and any possible influx of new senior executives for the next 5 years. Thus, there was no demand for executive luxury housing in the market."

Then may I ask you what about this person called Jet Li?

Your Hong Kong magazine wrote "Actor Jet Li moved to Singapore last year for his daughters’ education, reported Hong Kong’s Next Magazine recently ... he bought a S$7mil (RM16.1mil) unit at nearby Ardmore Park condominium."

Is Jet Li a "senior executive" from some Multinational Company? Must luxury housing be only for "senior executives"?

Is Jet Li's purchase of Armore Park luxury condominium illegal? Since he is not a "senior executive"?

#4. Can you explain why our "projected growth of economy" is no good?

A MasterCard International survey showed that"Being often touted recently as the next unexplored, potential-filled Asian emerging economy, Vietnam unsurprisingly registered, among the 13 nations surveyed, the highest score of 94.3 points in the MasterIndex of Consumer Confidence (MCC), which ranges from 0 to 100 points, with Taiwan posting the lowest at 29.7 points. Hong Kong came in second position with a score of 85.9 points, closely followed by China and Singapore, which posted 85.5 and 83.6 points, respectively." http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_22113.html

Singapore is ranked fourth, after Vietnam (94.3 points), Hong Kong (85.9 points), China (85.5 points) and Singapore (83.6 points).

Singapore is ranked 4th and just 2.3 points behind Hong Kong as the next unexplored, potential-filled Asian emerging economy, why is that considered "no good"?

#4 (You've got two points #4 and this is the second one) You said "Non of these new inhabitants will be buying or renting condo's, especially in the high-end."

Then what about Dr. Sudhir Gupta, "Born in India, moved to Russia to get Ph.D. in agricultural chemistry. Started tire company in Moscow ... Escaped assassination attempt in Moscow 4 years ago; now shuttles between that city and Singapore, where he's a citizen.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/79/06singapore_Sudhir-Gupta_AHUD.html

He bought a luxury bungalow at Binjai Park for $12.55 million and 22 apartments, including the 63rd-storey penthouse, in the second tower of The Sail @ Marina Bay condo for a total $31 million.

Aren't these properties considered "high end", can you define what is meant by "high end"?

#5. I don't understand your this statement at all "Singapore is not a supply/demand driven economy. It is a small, managed economy. Thus, the property development plans were lofty, risky, and not based on future real supply/demand realities."

This statement totally confounds me so I need you to explain what you mean?

#6. Why do you say that Singapore lacks "real, transparent, objective information available"?

According to Jones Lang LaSelle report on Global Real Estates Transparency, "Highly Transparent countries for the first time in 2006 are Hong Kong, Sweden, France and Singapore, each having jumped to Tier 1 from Tier 2 since the 2004 survey."

http://www.joneslanglasalle.com/en-GB/news/2006/Global+Real+Estate+Markets+Trans.htm

Singapore and Hong Kong both have been promoted from Tier 2 to Tier 1 as "Highly Transparent Countries", together with Sweden and France.

So can you please explain your statement "There is a lack of real, transparent, objective information available in the Singapore market about the Singapore market."?

#7. You predicted that "Global money supplies and markets are taking a beating and will continue to take a beating. The second call on the sub prime products happens this June so more big losses are expected. This will stall or even damage the Singapore economy."

I want to ask, if you are so good at predicting, then last June (just before the sub-prime) did you go short-sell USD100 billion worth of US stock futures contracts through leveraged margin-trading account? Especially short Bear-Stearns shares, then you would be a multi-billionaire by now.

Then why are you still working as a "Asia property analyst for a small successful private investment bank."?

[Unregistered]

I have some questions for Mr. Hong Kong Property Analyst, can you be my "messenger" as well.

#1. ChannelNewsAsia on 27 February 2008 reported that "Last year, Singapore saw over 63,000 new PRs, an 11-per-cent increase from 2006; and the city-state also welcomed more than 17,000 new citizens, a 30-per-cent jump."

Every year, we have 63,000 + 17,000 = 80,000 new immigrants, that is not including foreigners who come here on employment pass (but not taking up citizenships or PRs).

What do you mean "no demand for housing"? May I know where these 80,000 people are going to stay? Inside the canals?

In case you are not familiar with Singapore, here is the news URL to our government broadcasting station regarding the news I quoted above.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/331492/1/.html

#2. ChannelNewsAsia reported on 10 August 2007 that Singapore's "Financial services expanded by 17 per cent in the second quarter, up from 14 per cent growth in the first quarter, while the construction sector grew by 18 per cent, the strongest growth in almost 10 years. Growth in the manufacturing sector picked up pace to 8.3 per cent."

No matter how I calculate, I don't know how you arrived at the figure that "growth was 99% construction related."?

In case you are not familiar with Singapore, here is the news URL to our government broadcasting station regarding the news I quoted above.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/293171/1/.html

#3. You said "The existing luxury housing vacancy levels in Singapore were adequate to fill the needs of Singaporeans and any possible influx of new senior executives for the next 5 years. Thus, there was no demand for executive luxury housing in the market."

Then may I ask you what about this person called Jet Li?

Your Hong Kong magazine wrote "Actor Jet Li moved to Singapore last year for his daughters’ education, reported Hong Kong’s Next Magazine recently ... he bought a S$7mil (RM16.1mil) unit at nearby Ardmore Park condominium."

Is Jet Li a "senior executive" from some Multinational Company? Must luxury housing be only for "senior executives"?

Is Jet Li's purchase of Armore Park luxury condominium illegal? Since he is not a "senior executive"?

#4. Can you explain why our "projected growth of economy" is no good?

A MasterCard International survey showed that"Being often touted recently as the next unexplored, potential-filled Asian emerging economy, Vietnam unsurprisingly registered, among the 13 nations surveyed, the highest score of 94.3 points in the MasterIndex of Consumer Confidence (MCC), which ranges from 0 to 100 points, with Taiwan posting the lowest at 29.7 points. Hong Kong came in second position with a score of 85.9 points, closely followed by China and Singapore, which posted 85.5 and 83.6 points, respectively." http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_22113.html

Singapore is ranked fourth, after Vietnam (94.3 points), Hong Kong (85.9 points), China (85.5 points) and Singapore (83.6 points).

Singapore is ranked 4th and just 2.3 points behind Hong Kong as the next unexplored, potential-filled Asian emerging economy, why is that considered "no good"?

#4 (You've got two points #4 and this is the second one) You said "Non of these new inhabitants will be buying or renting condo's, especially in the high-end."

Then what about Dr. Sudhir Gupta, "Born in India, moved to Russia to get Ph.D. in agricultural chemistry. Started tire company in Moscow ... Escaped assassination attempt in Moscow 4 years ago; now shuttles between that city and Singapore, where he's a citizen.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/79/06singapore_Sudhir-Gupta_AHUD.html

He bought a luxury bungalow at Binjai Park for $12.55 million and 22 apartments, including the 63rd-storey penthouse, in the second tower of The Sail @ Marina Bay condo for a total $31 million.

Aren't these properties considered "high end", can you define what is meant by "high end"?

#5. I don't understand your this statement at all "Singapore is not a supply/demand driven economy. It is a small, managed economy. Thus, the property development plans were lofty, risky, and not based on future real supply/demand realities."

This statement totally confounds me so I need you to explain what you mean?

#6. Why do you say that Singapore lacks "real, transparent, objective information available"?

According to Jones Lang LaSelle report on Global Real Estates Transparency, "Highly Transparent countries for the first time in 2006 are Hong Kong, Sweden, France and Singapore, each having jumped to Tier 1 from Tier 2 since the 2004 survey."

http://www.joneslanglasalle.com/en-GB/news/2006/Global+Real+Estate+Markets+Trans.htm

Singapore and Hong Kong both have been promoted from Tier 2 to Tier 1 as "Highly Transparent Countries", together with Sweden and France.

So can you please explain your statement "There is a lack of real, transparent, objective information available in the Singapore market about the Singapore market."?

#7. You predicted that "Global money supplies and markets are taking a beating and will continue to take a beating. The second call on the sub prime products happens this June so more big losses are expected. This will stall or even damage the Singapore economy."

I want to ask, if you are so good at predicting, then last June (just before the sub-prime) did you go short-sell USD100 billion worth of US stock futures contracts through leveraged margin-trading account? Especially short Bear-Stearns shares, then you would be a multi-billionaire by now.

Then why are you still working as a "Asia property analyst for a small successful private investment bank."?
Wow! So much solid facts and figures.
OK, I rest my case.

[Unregistered]

Agreed too but what about stagnating sales. I am worried my unit may not sell.

why sell when the environment is uncertain. Do it when the sentiment is more favourable. low sales is an indication of caution in buying sentiment and not a reflection of poor fundamentals

[Unregistered]

why sell when the environment is uncertain. Do it when the sentiment is more favourable. low sales is an indication of caution in buying sentiment and not a reflection of poor fundamentals

Yalor, hold lor, hold until ur ass come up smoke.

[Unregistered]

Wow! So much solid facts and figures.
OK, I rest my case.

U also rest ur body and soul

[Unregistered]

IAM CANCELLING TOO. WHY RUSH WHEN CAN SOON GET 40% LOWER.


Don't be misled by this guy, I know him.

He is cancelling not because prices are getting 40% lower; he is cancelling because he was fired from his job end of last month!

Let's have some pity on him and pray for him. Amen.

[Unregistered]

I hv saved for years and paid up for my retired asset, a ppty. But, inflation has eaten up it's value and ruin my retirement plan.

I hope govt can boost the ppty prices so I can hv enough money to retire. I heard that in Dubai ppty prices has increased more than 10 folds since 2002 until today. Beijing, Shanghai, HK and many part of South East Asia hv also increased many many folds since early 2000 until now.

Then, why our ppty prices increase was so short and so little compared to other major city in Asia? How can the retirees survive in this high inflationary environment with so little amount of money?

I read from this forum some ppl said that our ppty prices was intentionally kept low so we can attract foreign talent. Is that true? I hope not.

[Unregistered]

I hv saved for years and paid up for my retired asset, a ppty. But, inflation has eaten up it's value and ruin my retirement plan.

I hope govt can boost the ppty prices so I can hv enough money to retire. I heard that in Dubai ppty prices has increased more than 10 folds since 2002 until today. Beijing, Shanghai, HK and many part of South East Asia hv also increased many many folds since early 2000 until now.

Then, why our ppty prices increase was so short and so little compared to other major city in Asia? How can the retirees survive in this high inflationary environment with so little amount of money?

I read from this forum some ppl said that our ppty prices was intentionally kept low so we can attract foreign talent. Is that true? I hope not.
Dear Retiree,

Rest assured that your worries are unfounded.

On the contrary, the Government continously invests billions throughout the island to enhance the values of assets owned by all Singaporeans.

Read the following speech by none other than our MM Lee.

"Singapore is undergoing a transformation. The Marina Barrage is completed. From next year 2009, saline water will be drained out and we will have a fresh water lake. PUB will make sure that the lake is free of debris and pollution. All streams, canals and monsoon drains will become the recreation waterways and be greened up and fitted with board water. This requires complex engineering task and also needs the cooperation of our people to keep our drains and waterways free of plastic and other waste.

By 2011, the Marina Bay Area will be splendid, especially a water plaza, surrounded by a promenade fronting financial centres, integrated resorts, residential condominiums, food and beverages outlets, an enchanting sight to behold. It will be a unique city centre. We will not leave our heartlands behind. All new towns will be upgraded and beautified. The massive new investments in infrastructure and beautification, plus a steadily growing economy, with higher incomes, will keep property values going up."

The full text of his speech can be found here:

http://www.pmo.gov.sg/News/Speech+by+MM+Lee+at+the+Tanjong+Pagar+Chinese+New+Year+Dinner.htm

[Unregistered]

Dear Retiree,

Rest assured that your worries are unfounded.

On the contrary, the Government continously invests billions throughout the island to enhance the values of assets owned by all Singaporeans.

Read the following speech by none other than our MM Lee.

"Singapore is undergoing a transformation. The Marina Barrage is completed. From next year 2009, saline water will be drained out and we will have a fresh water lake. PUB will make sure that the lake is free of debris and pollution. All streams, canals and monsoon drains will become the recreation waterways and be greened up and fitted with board water. This requires complex engineering task and also needs the cooperation of our people to keep our drains and waterways free of plastic and other waste.

By 2011, the Marina Bay Area will be splendid, especially a water plaza, surrounded by a promenade fronting financial centres, integrated resorts, residential condominiums, food and beverages outlets, an enchanting sight to behold. It will be a unique city centre. We will not leave our heartlands behind. All new towns will be upgraded and beautified. The massive new investments in infrastructure and beautification, plus a steadily growing economy, with higher incomes, will keep property values going up."

The full text of his speech can be found here:

http://www.pmo.gov.sg/News/Speech+by+MM+Lee+at+the+Tanjong+Pagar+Chinese+New+Year+Dinner.htm
Thanks. What a relief!

I will not cash in my ppty for now. I will hold and continue to hold until the price increase by at least another 300%.

Retiree.

[Unregistered]

Peaked Peaked Peaked
Analysts say it has peaked
Desperate flippers get freaked
Because they realised that the news has leaked
Now on to the exits as fast as they could bolt
Beacuse no question of their units ever being sold
Mayhem all over as they rush
Fellow flippers will they crush?
Thud Thud Thud Splash Splash Splash
It is all over in a flash

[Unregistered]

Thanks. What a relief!

I will not cash in my ppty for now. I will hold and continue to hold until the price increase by at least another 300%.

Retiree.

Property prices can increase by more than 10,000%.

Our family house that my grandparents bought for $50,000 in the 1950's is now worth $7 million. That's 14,000%.

300% is too little.

Properties should only be bought but never sold.

Your grandchildren will be grateful to you.

[Unregistered]

Property prices can increase by more than 10,000%.

Our family house that my grandparents bought for $50,000 in the 1950's is now worth $7 million. That's 14,000%.

300% is too little.

Properties should only be bought but never sold.

Your grandchildren will be grateful to you.

Then what about him?

[Unregistered]

Then what about him?

He should still have liquid assets that he draw upon.

Unless a person has no money, then he has no choice but to sell everything.

However, most prudent people should have liquid assets approximately equivalent to their property holdings.

e.g. an average Singaporean with a property worth $1 million should have another $1 million in fixed deposits/CPF, stocks or insurance that can provide a steady stream of income for the rest of his life.

Say $1 million at 2.5% return (using CPF interest rate as example) will generate about $25,000 per year or approximately $2,000 per month. This should provide a comfortable retirement income stream, while leaving the capital sum intact.

The capital sum of $1 million can be on standby in case of medical costs in later years; while the property is left for future generations.

[Unregistered]

April 8, 2008

Fewer home loans taken up as property market cools further

By Grace Ng, Finance Correspondent


THE number of home loans taken up has fallen sharply in recent months as the property market continues to contract.

Only 4,200 new home loans were approved in January, up about 13 per cent on the 3,722 in December but down 21 per cent from the peak of 5,319 last August.

The Credit Bureau of Singapore figures also show that 2,544 second mortgages were taken up in January, a 31 per cent drop from the high of 3,698, also last August.

'We expect the growth in new mortgages to slow further this year,' said Credit Bureau general manager Mark Rowley.

Inquiries for new home loans have also dropped, down to 8,923 in February, the lowest since April 2006.

Mr Gregory Chan, OCBC Bank's head of consumer secured lending, said: 'We have observed that property buyers are becoming more cautious in their purchase decisions.'

United Overseas Bank's (UOB's) head of loans, Mr Kevin Lam, said that 'in line with property sales transactions, our loan applications were slower in January and February' but there was 'a pick-up in market activity at the end of March'.

His counterpart at HSBC Singapore, Ms Alice Chia, said the bank has 'seen a reduction in applications for new home loans, which is reflective of sentiment towards the property market'.


THERE GOES THE PROPERTY MARKET....ILL, DEAD AND BURIED. REST IN PEACE.

[Unregistered]

Only 4,200 new home loans were approved in January, up about 13 per cent on the 3,722 in December but down 21 per cent from the peak of 5,319 last August.

United Overseas Bank's (UOB's) head of loans, Mr Kevin Lam, said that 'in line with property sales transactions, our loan applications were slower in January and February' but there was 'a pick-up in market activity at the end of March'



THERE GOES THE PROPERTY MARKET....ILL, DEAD AND BURIED. REST IN PEACE.

The property market still very healthy wat ...

Got 4,200 home loans approved in January, only 21% below the "peak of 5,319 last August".

Unlike what the sour grapes here kept saying "No Buyers".

Furthermore, there is a 'a pick-up in market activity at the end of March'.

Looks like the property market will bury the sour grapes yet again.

[Unregistered]

The property market still very healthy wat ...

Got 4,200 home loans approved in January, only 21% below the "peak of 5,319 last August".

Unlike what the sour grapes here kept saying "No Buyers".

Furthermore, there is a 'a pick-up in market activity at the end of March'.

Looks like the property market will bury the sour grapes yet again.
HEALTHY HEALTHY HEALTHY
SCREAMS THE NOT SO WEALTHY
SAYS CRASHED BY 21% ONLY
SOMETIMES THE MORONS ARE VERY FUNNY
THE WISE SAY NO BUYERS ALREADY
AND MARKET GOING DOWN UNDER VERILY
SITUATION BY THE DAY GETTING MORE DEADLY
FINALLY...MORONS WILL DIE SCREAMING HEALTHY HEALTHY HEALTHY
BECAUSE UNITS OUT THERE WITH NO BUYERS IN PLENTY!!!