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Thread: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

  1. #1
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    Default Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    By Wong Siew Ying, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 21 March 2008 0021 hrs


    SINGAPORE: Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year.

    But those of high-end residential properties could taper off by up to 10 per cent.

    And if you're looking to buy, the market is in your favour, according to Propnex's CEO, Mohamed Ismail Abdul Gafoore, in a speech to alumni members at the National University of Singapore.

    Despite the weaker market sentiments, industry players expect mass market condominiums to do relatively well this year and prices are set to climb but at a more sluggish pace.

    And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

    Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals.

    Mr Mohammad Ismail said: "When we compare the prices of places like Parc Oasis or Woodsgrove condo, the prices today hold and in some instances are even higher per square foot.

    ďLook at today, the public housing pricing, and the DBSS pricing per square foot. They are already going at almost S$600 if one would want to buy at a mass market price that is less than S$800 with full facilities."

    According to agents, the landed housing space could see modest growth but prices should hold steady.

    The outlook is less positive for luxury apartments, which only six months ago were transacted upwards of S$2000 per square foot.

    Property agents expect the dust kicked up by the US sub-prime crisis and the rising oil prices to settle by 2009.

    They are also confident that the future is still bright for the property market as Singapore has the right fundamentals in place.

    Meanwhile, demand for public housing is expected to remain robust this year, providing to prices.

    So some agents believe it's a good time for HDB flat owners to trade up to a mass market private property. - CNA/vm

  2. #2
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Since when property agent had become economic advisor predicting US subprime crisis and oil prices ?

  3. #3
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Since when property agent had become economic advisor predicting US subprime crisis and oil prices ?
    Don't believe in agents, they always think very positive and optimistic about the property market one, reason very simple, dun need to explain, all of us know what property agents have in their minds. To buy or not to buy depends on yourself, you do your own prediction, do not be lead by other opinions.

  4. #4
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Precisely. I still remember 2003, 2004, 2005, every year they keep saying 'this year will recover' but nothing happened.

    No credibility.

  5. #5
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Ai yah! They always 'see people talk like people, see ghost talk like ghost lor'

  6. #6
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Let the HDB and mass market condo resale transactions do the talking. One year from now you will know if the CEO of Propnex is talking rubbish or not. Those who bought in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 are laughing their way to the bank. Basically the bought their home below future replacement cost.

  7. #7
    Unregistered Guest

    Red face Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Let the HDB and mass market condo resale transactions do the talking. One year from now you will know if the CEO of Propnex is talking rubbish or not. Those who bought in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 are laughing their way to the bank. Basically the bought their home below future replacement cost.
    20 tranactions so for march

  8. #8
    Unregistered Guest

    Thumbs down Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Precisely. I still remember 2003, 2004, 2005, every year they keep saying 'this year will recover' but nothing happened.

    No credibility.
    I will assume you did not listen to them and buy during "2003, 2004, 2005". Else, you will not be making noise here but laughing and "HUAT" all the way to the bank. You ought to understand that to listen or not is depending on the individual financial capability and affordability as buying property is a long term and not short term investment. But if you do not have the financial power, you should not listen and should remain where you are now......

  9. #9
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    yep wat

    is all about long term invesment lar

    u think what

    today u go buy Toto

    u sure must today strike 5 million ar??

    u think what

    you go to bank ,tell the banker today

    i put in 5 million investment

    I want 100,000 profit now!!!!

    dun be crazy

    lar!!!

  10. #10
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by mr funny
    Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Mr Mohammad Ismail said: "When we compare the prices of places like Parc Oasis or Woodsgrove condo, the prices today hold and in some instances are even higher per square foot.

    ďLook at today, the public housing pricing, and the DBSS pricing per square foot. They are already going at almost S$600 if one would want to buy at a mass market price that is less than S$800 with full facilities."
    Ya I agree with the Propnex Mr Mohammad Ismail.

    Mass market is now a good deal compared to HDB flats. Or rather, HDB flats are a bad deal.

    Recently some people wrote to the Straits Times forum to complain why the monthly conservancy charges for HDB are even higher than for some condos, after including parking charges. Whereas parking in condos is free-of-charge.

    Then the HDB replied that they did not sell the carpark to you.

    On top of that, when you buy a condo, you are buying the land as well. So next time, let's say 30 years later when your condo en bloc, you or your children can enjoy the en bloc windfall.

    But then for HDB flats, the land belongs to HDB. So those Selective En Bloc (SERS) en bloc profits all go to the HDB.

    Of course the HDB will say they did not sell you the land.

    So they did not sell you the car park and they did not sell you the land and they did not sell you the swimming pool at the town centre and your conservancy charges do not include security guards to prevent loan sharks from splashing paint onto your doors.

    So if you subtract away all these things, HDB flats are really not value-for-money compared to condos.

  11. #11
    Unregistered Guest

    Talking Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    HDB flats ..there value never drops ...stays above valuation keke!!!

  12. #12
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    HDB flats ..there value never drops ...stays above valuation keke!!!
    HDB value never drops?

    Then what does the chart below tell you?


  13. #13
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Ya I agree with the Propnex Mr Mohammad Ismail.

    Mass market is now a good deal compared to HDB flats. Or rather, HDB flats are a bad deal.

    Recently some people wrote to the Straits Times forum to complain why the monthly conservancy charges for HDB are even higher than for some condos, after including parking charges. Whereas parking in condos is free-of-charge.

    Then the HDB replied that they did not sell the carpark to you.

    On top of that, when you buy a condo, you are buying the land as well. So next time, let's say 30 years later when your condo en bloc, you or your children can enjoy the en bloc windfall.

    But then for HDB flats, the land belongs to HDB. So those Selective En Bloc (SERS) en bloc profits all go to the HDB.

    Of course the HDB will say they did not sell you the land.

    So they did not sell you the car park and they did not sell you the land and they did not sell you the swimming pool at the town centre and your conservancy charges do not include security guards to prevent loan sharks from splashing paint onto your doors.

    So if you subtract away all these things, HDB flats are really not value-for-money compared to condos.
    Agreed with you 100%. Infact some condo maintenance around $160 per month and you can park 2 cars (covered carpark). I still dont understand this logic of people paying cash over valuation. Just doesn't make sense right.

  14. #14
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    At the rate construction cost is going, it appears that new mass market condo will be marketed at $750-800 psf. I am staying put in my 10 year old condo as the material used today is cheap homogenous tile and ceramic tile. Nothing great. Older condo, the material is better, granite/marble. No happy with the build in wardrobe or kitchen, spend some dollars to bring it up to spec.

  15. #15
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    HDB value never drops?

    Then what does the chart below tell you?

    It tells me that there still a upside in HDB

  16. #16
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    At the rate construction cost is going, it appears that new mass market condo will be marketed at $750-800 psf. I am staying put in my 10 year old condo as the material used today is cheap homogenous tile and ceramic tile. Nothing great. Older condo, the material is better, granite/marble. No happy with the build in wardrobe or kitchen, spend some dollars to bring it up to spec.
    Once the US problems are gone, developers will start pricing new mass market condos at $900 to $1000 psf.

  17. #17
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Ya I agree with the Propnex Mr Mohammad Ismail.

    Mass market is now a good deal compared to HDB flats. Or rather, HDB flats are a bad deal.

    Recently some people wrote to the Straits Times forum to complain why the monthly conservancy charges for HDB are even higher than for some condos, after including parking charges. Whereas parking in condos is free-of-charge.

    Then the HDB replied that they did not sell the carpark to you.

    On top of that, when you buy a condo, you are buying the land as well. So next time, let's say 30 years later when your condo en bloc, you or your children can enjoy the en bloc windfall.

    But then for HDB flats, the land belongs to HDB. So those Selective En Bloc (SERS) en bloc profits all go to the HDB.


    Of course the HDB will say they did not sell you the land.

    So they did not sell you the car park and they did not sell you the land and they did not sell you the swimming pool at the town centre and your conservancy charges do not include security guards to prevent loan sharks from splashing paint onto your doors.

    So if you subtract away all these things, HDB flats are really not value-for-money compared to condos.

    Yes, fully agree with you and more numbers to support the case....

    HDB's conservancy charges have always been HIGHER than private condos in most locations except the posh Orchard Road/Newton/River Valley areas.

    In 1987, I relocated from Jurong East HDB to private condo in West Coast area because the maintenance charges were lower in the condo and the car park space was guaranteed, unlike in HDB when you paid your season but cannot get a lot if you return home after 9 pm.

    I am now paying $200 pm., for maintenance, free SHELTERED car park for two cars (we are a family of five adults, grown up children), free swimming pool and a day guard (estate too small to afford a night guard).

    The security guard is from an agency and paid $2,500 a month, shared by 30 units which is about $83 per unit. Deduct this from the $200, the maintenance fee is only about $117. Understand sheltered (MSCP) car park at HDB is $75 pm., so for two cars, it would cost me $150 pm. at HDB, but my condo's $117 includes two free car park lots, free swimming pool, bbq pit, and the full cleaning, gardening, pest control.

    Check out the numbers for yourself. Understand the ECs paid about $180 pm. with one free car park lot, 24-hour security, pool, tennis courts, squash, karaoke function rooms, gym, etc.

    Isn't HDB overcharging?

  18. #18
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    What is she talking about?

    "Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

    but

    "And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

    Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

    If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?

  19. #19
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    I saw lots of buyers showing up at my condo last week and this week. Think they are fed up of waiting for prices to fall. It is not happening. Think they are smart to strike a deal now as sellers more reasonable now with cloud of uncertainties in the US. If US manage to soft land their economy and avert a total collapse in their banking system and wider economy, the market will start to cheong again.

  20. #20
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    What is she talking about?

    "Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

    but

    "And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

    Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

    If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?
    I think what she mean is - a lot of sellers want to sell at current price, but can buy cheap later.

  21. #21
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    What is she talking about?

    "Prices of mass market and mid-tier condominiums are expected to remain strong this year."

    but

    "And more supply will come into the market as 31,000 new private apartments are completed over the next five years.

    Propnex said it's now a buyers market and home hunters could get good deals."

    If property prices are expected the remain strong, how can this be a buyer's market?
    Let me explain.

    First, look at how many new condos will be coming up in the next five years: 31,000.

    Next, look at how many new immigrants we are going to get in the next five year:

    ChannelNewsAsia reproted on 27 February 2008 "Last year, Singapore saw over 63,000 new PRs, an 11-per-cent increase from 2006; and the city-state also welcomed more than 17,000 new citizens, a 30-per-cent jump."

    In one year, we are getting 63,000 new PRs plus 17,000 new citizens: total 80,000.

    In five years, we will get 400,000 new immigrants.

    I don't know how many of the 400,000 new immigrants in the next five years will go after the 31,000 new private apartments in the next five years.

    Not all of them are in the market for private apartments, that's why now the HDB is "overwhelmed" everytime they launch a new design, build & sell scheme (DBSS).

    Now you should know why although the price is firm, it's still a good deal? Because once the subprime blows over, prices are going to explode through the roof again.

  22. #22
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    HDB value never drops?

    Then what does the chart below tell you?

    Extrapolate the graph. Looks like time for a dip.

  23. #23
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    If you believe the dip will occur, then are you saying that the historical high back in the 1990s will never be breached again?

    Merely looking at charts without understanding the forces and circumstances behind the trend is useless. I lived through that period and understand how times have changed. Most of the conditions surrounding the dip during the mid-90s are not present today. Just look at the state of employment/ unemployment today, wages, population demographics, economic structure, fiscal budget surpluses, low interest rate environment, inflation, national reserves, trade diversification, Sing dollar strength, anti-speculative CPF and financing policies, etc. I say, thanks to the rise of both China and India, as well as a prudent government, we couldn't have it better.

  24. #24
    Unregistered Guest

    Wink Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    ya lah dip dip dip u sour grapes always want the price to fall rite?

    well, then w8 long long lah...

    the price will head north very soon...even before 2009...maybe u are destined to eat sour grapes all ur life...i can't blame u pessimists for tt

    with the f1 coming up, upcoming casino at marina bay and sentosa, one-rochester developments,biopolis, upcoming new hotel developments, flooding of approx more than 1 mil expats to sg, huge investment firms building their offices here in sg...even a 1 yr old kid will tell u tt property price is not going to head south. With China, Vietnam, Thailand & HK property prices all catching up close to SG's property prices, do u still think prices will head south?

    If u really wish tt property prices will fall, why not go indonesia/m'sia and stay in a kampung. It's cheap, inflation proof, enviromental friendly, green, no need for expensive raw materials except for some banana leaves and branches... faster TOP completion(max up to 1wk can complete already), upgrade at ur own pace, huge space, dirt cheap psf..WOW!!! Bargain deal!!! I think tt suits ur requirements perfectly, sour grapes =)

  25. #25
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    If you believe the dip will occur, then are you saying that the historical high back in the 1990s will never be breached again?

    Merely looking at charts without understanding the forces and circumstances behind the trend is useless. I lived through that period and understand how times have changed. Most of the conditions surrounding the dip during the mid-90s are not present today. Just look at the state of employment/ unemployment today, wages, population demographics, economic structure, fiscal budget surpluses, low interest rate environment, inflation, national reserves, trade diversification, Sing dollar strength, anti-speculative CPF and financing policies, etc. I say, thanks to the rise of both China and India, as well as a prudent government, we couldn't have it better.
    Yes. There is a very big difference between what happened in the 1997 Asian financial crisis and what is happening today.

    In 1997, our Singapore currency plunged from 1.40 SGD per USD to around 1.80 SGD per USD. Whereas today, it's the reverse, Sing dollar has strengthened back to 1.39 SGD per USD.

    This shows the healthy state of our economy.

    In 1997, the epicentre of the financial crisis was in Asia whereas today it's in the U.S. It's a different story.

  26. #26
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    The fact of the matter is that property prices will move up because the overwhelming latent/pent-up demand in 2H 2008 and 1H 2009 will just blow you away. Sour grapes need to go back to economics 101 classes to understand the basics in supply/demand and price elasticity.

  27. #27
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Let me explain.

    First, look at how many new condos will be coming up in the next five years: 31,000.

    Next, look at how many new immigrants we are going to get in the next five year:

    ChannelNewsAsia reproted on 27 February 2008 "Last year, Singapore saw over 63,000 new PRs, an 11-per-cent increase from 2006; and the city-state also welcomed more than 17,000 new citizens, a 30-per-cent jump."

    In one year, we are getting 63,000 new PRs plus 17,000 new citizens: total 80,000.

    In five years, we will get 400,000 new immigrants.

    I don't know how many of the 400,000 new immigrants in the next five years will go after the 31,000 new private apartments in the next five years.

    Not all of them are in the market for private apartments, that's why now the HDB is "overwhelmed" everytime they launch a new design, build & sell scheme (DBSS).

    Now you should know why although the price is firm, it's still a good deal? Because once the subprime blows over, prices are going to explode through the roof again.
    Brilliant! this is what I can an intelligent triangulation of information....not some one sided single track mind. Bending the will of supply to meet demand (for home prices to come down) and just complaining and whining all the time like spoilt brat and sour grapes

  28. #28
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    view from Jim Rogers

    What property do you own?

    None. I sold my home in New York when I moved to Singapore last year and, for now, Iím renting. Iíll probably buy when I find the right place.

    Iím of the view that property prices will come down in many parts of the world, including Singapore, so Iím not in a hurry. I donít like property as an investment Ė itís too illiquid and sometimes you canít sell it at any price.

  29. #29
    Reporter Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    view from Jim Rogers

    What property do you own?

    None. I sold my home in New York when I moved to Singapore last year and, for now, Iím renting. Iíll probably buy when I find the right place.

    Iím of the view that property prices will come down in many parts of the world, including Singapore, so Iím not in a hurry. I donít like property as an investment Ė itís too illiquid and sometimes you canít sell it at any price.
    Why did you moved to Singapore?

  30. #30
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    view from Jim Rogers

    What property do you own?

    None. I sold my home in New York when I moved to Singapore last year and, for now, Iím renting. Iíll probably buy when I find the right place.

    Iím of the view that property prices will come down in many parts of the world, including Singapore, so Iím not in a hurry. I donít like property as an investment Ė itís too illiquid and sometimes you canít sell it at any price.
    I trust Warren Buffett more. If you have taken Jim's cue in the last few months you would bought into commodities thinking they are only one third of the way into a ten year bull run. I took it with a heap of salt. Look what happen to oil and ag commodities in the last 2 weeks. I also disagree with his view on GIC and Temasek making direct investments into UBS, Merill and Citi. Jim is too much of a short term trader for me. Think Tony Tan and Tharman, MM are way ahead of the curve. Tell will tell.

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