View Full Version : Property correction
Hi all...the price has just gone too far and much since 2008/2009. I think there should be a correction or a crash to normalize the ever-increasing psf these years. Could anyone share his/her thoughts that if correction would be imminent and will be beneficial to have everything reset to base?
Why not reset to 1970s? Then you can buy whole building?
Seriously what is your "entry" price?
Why not reset to 1970s? Then you can buy whole building?
Seriously what is your "entry" price?
Let's say the entry price for :
OCR - 600-700psf
CCR - 1000-unlimited psf
RCR - 700-900psf
HDB:
EC - 500-600k
5 Room - 300-350k
4 Room - 180-260k
3 Room - 100-140k
this was my hdb 4A price 12-13 years ago ...
can turn back the clock :D
Let's say the entry price for :
OCR - 600-700psf
CCR - 1000-unlimited psf
RCR - 700-900psf
HDB:
EC - 500-600k
5 Room - 300-350k
4 Room - 180-260k
3 Room - 100-140k
Say very easy, tomorrow property collapse and next moment you'll be asked to top up on your existing loans. Still want to buy? :D
A correction of that nature will only happen in a global financial crisis. Not some small EU state become bankrupt type..
It will destroy a lot of wealth. Most affected will be low and then middle income folks... all just for you to have opportunity to buy property cheap again? That's quite horrible. Anyway if that time comes, maybe lose job or reduction in pay, how to buy property? No risk appetite at that point..
If you missed the boat, then find another boat to sail on. There are so many assets worth investing...
Amber Woods
07-04-13, 10:46
If we have been following Mr Khaw's comments regularly, we would have taken note of his message. He mentioned that 2009 prices was about right given our current income level.
As reported, Singapore's properties are about 57% over value so a 30% correction in prices would still mean we we are still about 27% over value. So Mr Khaw's idea of a 30% price correction is actually quite prudent if it could be corrected gradually over the next 3 to five years. This is better than any sharp correction which will cause hardship to many who committed when prices were high. It is good to have a correction so that the cycle can continue.
There is a limit to what the CMs could do so long as our property market remains beneficial relative to other markets like HK and china as rich investors seek to park their cash in property and look around Asian region to do so - at least that's my humble personal opinion
Amber Woods
07-04-13, 10:52
If CMs could crash the car market, so can it for property. It is all about the magnitude of the CM and whether the government wants to go for a hard or soft landing.
Buying a flat seems akin to striking the lottery, judging by the mood at a condo launch
Apr 07, 2013
By John Lui
The uniquely Singapore smell of real estate anxiety is in the air.
Five hundred or so people are crammed in here today in a big white tent to buy a piece of the Singapore dream. But as with any part of that dream, there is competition.
A ballot will decide if these people get one or more of the 868 units here at Bartley Ridge, along with its shared amenities, which include a "play agora", a "bioswale" and "meditation pods". I have no idea what they are but the hefty brochure, the size of a coffee- table book, assures me that they are very nice to have.
This church-like temporary structure, vast and air-conditioned, stands on Mount Vernon Road. Its whiteness and newness is in contrast to the rundown brown building across the street, home to the cats, dogs and other creatures cared for by the SPCA. Soon, the gently undulating grassy ground around the Bartley MRT station, close to the home to unwanted animals, the Mount Vernon Sanctuary funeral home and the Gurkha police unit will be thudding with piling works.
Inside the tent, there is an army of men and women in navy blazers and ties, doubling the size of the crowd. These are property agents, most of them at the elbow of their customers. But at this tense moment, they are also counsellors, speaking in low, soothing voices, trying to put their nervous clients at ease. Here and there are attractive young women handing out name cards, selling bank loans.
The buyers' fate hangs on the lottery. It is a system that has largely replaced the first-come-first-served system in private home sales, a style that in years past led to the sight of people - many of them teens or odd-jobbers hired as placeholders - queuing for days in the sun and rain before the start of sales.
On this day in late March, the buyers, a motley lot in T-shirts and shorts, mainly Singaporeans with a smattering of Indonesians and China nationals, retirees and working couples with children, whisper and check and recheck their papers as numbers are read out over the speakers.
A few buyers shout with joy as their ballot numbers are called and trot happily to the registration counter at the front. Some cheekier agents shout "Huat ah!", meaning "success" in Hokkien, but it is delivered as a joke in an attempt to lighten the mood.
The atmosphere has been made more tense by the recent cooling measures, which include the additional buyer's stamp duty (ABSD).
Those buying today get a 15 per cent discount that nullifies the duty, but they are swimming against the tide of fear that government price curbs, current or upcoming, will cause a price dip and make them look like the proverbial fools who rush in.
I follow the lucky people whose numbers have been called. They have to go to another building to join another line. At the end of it, they will find out if the unit or units they want are still available.
The most popular units are the most affordable ones. These are one-bedroom homes, starting at 441 sq ft, costing around $600,000. They are tiny, about the size of the two-bedroom flats that the HDB used to build in the 1970s and 1980s. The largest design, a four-bedroom unit, costs $1.97 million for 2,120 sq ft.
But most of the buyers I spoke to will not live in them, regardless of size.
They are not buying a home; they are buying an insurance policy in a country where property values go in only one direction - into space. One retired couple I spoke to have a HUDC home in the Braddell area. Another couple in their 40s have a HDB flat in Bishan. Neither has plans to move to Bartley Ridge.
In the words of the commander of the blue- blazered battalion here today, Mr Mohamed Ismail, they are hoping to tap into "other people's money".
The chief executive of Propnex Realty ("He owned his first property at the young age of 22 and amazingly made his first million at 28", according to his biography on the corporate website) uses the phrase, which he shortens to OPM, to refer to rent income.
It is one week after the ballot. Mr Ismail is here giving a talk about his OPM principle, in the same white tent, to a crowd of about 50 people. More than 300 units have been sold in the preceding days. But there are many more left and Propnex is among the agencies charged by developers Hong Leong Holdings, City Developments and TID to move them. The second phase of the seduction campaign is in full swing and Mr Ismail is leading the offensive.
"Whether you buy Bartley Ridge or not is none of my concern," he says in his opening shot.
He is here to educate, he declares. The OPM rule applies even if you are buying a unit to live in. The audience perks up at this. They are here because they saw the advertisement in this newspaper promising a talk by Mr Ismail, or have been invited here by his salespeople.
Mr Ismail has a reputation for being an energetic, thought-provoking speaker and he does not disappoint. For the next hour, he delivers a foundation course on the property market. There are jokes. After a show of hands proved that an overwhelming majority wanted to wait for a post-cooling market correction before buying, he says in mock exasperation: "Then what the hell am I going to talk about today?"
He chides anyone who thinks that the bargains left are only in Johor or Myanmar, when there are good deals to be had in Singapore - in, for example, Bartley Ridge. He drops a tip on how to beat other landlords hoping to lure the male expatriate shopping for a rental unit ("Go to Harvey Norman, Courts or Mustafa, look for a display unit LCD TV, 55 or 60 inch, install it. For his English Premier League.")
But most of all, he does sums. He seems to know that his enemy is the wait-and-see attitude caused by the cooling measures and the cure for it is numbers - rent yield versus mortgage payable, inflation and loan interest rates, land bank statistics, recent transacted home prices and the projected 6.9 million population put forward in the White Paper. He scribbles figures furiously on sheets of paper. The audience is riveted.
Mr Ismail's talk roams through history, economics, politics and, yes, male expatriate psychology. He gives the right amount of information at the right time. It all sounds air-tight. Did he win over the sceptics? It is hard to say, but many remain behind to chat in earnest with their agents.
As I walk to the MRT station, on my way home to my HDB flat, his numbers dance in my head. I still have no idea what a bioswale or play agora are, but now, some days after Mr Ismail's talk, I catch myself wanting them.
Just look at a plate of chicken rice in the food court and you will know why the property prices have gone up.
Let's say the entry price for :
OCR - 600-700psf
CCR - 1000-unlimited psf
RCR - 700-900psf
HDB:
EC - 500-600k
5 Room - 300-350k
4 Room - 180-260k
3 Room - 100-140k
Hi all...the price has just gone too far and much since 2008/2009. I think there should be a correction or a crash to normalize the ever-increasing psf these years. Could anyone share his/her thoughts that if correction would be imminent and will be beneficial to have everything reset to base?
I tell u something, i rub eyes many many times by just 1 in camp training i went back this week. Young chewren bo hiew and still hoot like no 2moro. Ok lar nvm, 1 die, all die. 1 for all and all for one
flagship74
07-04-13, 11:12
Hearsay gament is going to any round of CM..all sillyporean and pr are allow to keep either one HDB or private housing..or you need to dispose the extra to the open market within 6 month time frame..:beats-me-man:
Amber Woods
07-04-13, 11:12
Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog (http://www.sovereignman.com/finance/the-knockout-blow-people-wont-see-coming-11593/),
Have you ever done something really stupid, just because you were in love? Something you look back on and cringe, thinking “why on earth did I do that?” Of course. Who hasn’t?
Fear. Love. Panic. Exuberance. Jealousy. Desire. These emotions have tremendous influence over human behavior. And when they kick in, they skew our judgment and cause us to do things that can only be characterized as highly irrational.
In the world of economics and finance, they call this ‘sentiment’. Consumer confidence, business confidence, investor confidence… these are basically emotional readings. Screw the numbers. To hell with the truth. It’s all about how people feel.
It seems crazy, but it’s true. Right now, for example, ‘sentiment’ is telling us that the euro crisis is over. It’s telling us that the debt ceiling is pretty much resolved. And, after taking five years to reach pre-crash levels, it’s telling us that the stock market is once again safe for the average investor.
Yet the numbers tell a completely different story.
In the US, politicians are celebrating their accomplishments that the US unemployment rate has declined to 7.6%.
Of course, the real figures show that the labor force participation rate (effectively the percentage of society that they consider to be in the work force) has just hit a 30-year low. And the economy is failing to create new jobs.
Perhaps most of all, the US debt level this year will hit the danger zone that Greece was in just a few years ago when the European debt crisis kicked off in earnest.
In Europe, the situation is so bad that even the government figures are dismal. Italy is officially in a deep recession. Spain is posting a public deficit over 10% of GDP. The Greek economy shrank (officially) nearly 6% last year. Etc.
Bottom line, the numbers don’t match up with sentiment at all. And this makes for precarious investment conditions.
Over the first quarter of this year, US stock mutual funds reported $52 billion in retail investment inflows, according to market data firm TrimTabs. This is the highest inflow in a decade.
In January of this year, retail investors poured a record $77.4 billion into the stock market. To put this in perspective, the prior record, set in February 2000, was $23.7 billion.
You can probably guess how that turned out. This whoosh of money into stocks happened mere months before the crash.
It certainly seems strange when you stack it all together: on one hand, record high deficits, record high debts, record low labor force participation. On the other hand, record high stock market, record high mutual fund inflows.
Something just doesn’t add up.
Investors are throwing caution to the wind right now... ignoring the basic fundamentals and focusing exclusively on euphoric sentiment. (Or central bank policy).
Some of you may know that I was a competitive fighter for a number of years. I can personally attest, and any boxer will tell you, that it’s the punch that you don’t see coming which knocks you out.
Hearsay gament is going to any round of CM..all sillyporean and pr are allow to keep either one HDB or private housing..or you need to dispose the extra to the open market within 6 month time frame..:beats-me-man:
U think possible? With current CM on locals n FT, if they dispose who they gonna sell to? So how? Sell way way below valuation for pple to pickup? But then again most pple own property liao so how?
To be fair I am also pinning my hopes on a correction so that I can also change house but rationally in my head this will cause a lot more harm and wealth loss to the many Singaporeans owning those properties just for the sake of the small portion of people pinning their hopes for a major correction - the garment had to have a macro-economic perspective in mind and where the huge pain outweigh the perceived benefits it will be quite suicidal for the incumbent government especially with their dwindling public confidence in their policies - see their u turn for 60 days for the car CM ....
I also want to have crash but come on I think that's very selfish especially when it entails a lot of people having family breakup and being bankrupt as they went in too high geared and too fast - be content with what you have and then with prudence we can also invest and own 2 properties one day instead of keep pinning hopes ok crash - hope I am making some sense and in any case just my personal opinion
Amber Woods
07-04-13, 11:30
To be fair I am also pinning my hopes on a correction so that I can also change house but rationally in my head this will cause a lot more harm and wealth loss to the many Singaporeans owning those properties just for the sake of the small portion of people pinning their hopes for a major correction - the garment had to have a macro-economic perspective in mind and where the huge pain outweigh the perceived benefits it will be quite suicidal for the incumbent government especially with their dwindling public confidence in their policies - see their u turn for 60 days for the car CM ....
I also want to have crash but come on I think that's very selfish especially when it entails a lot of people having family breakup and being bankrupt as they went in too high geared and too fast - be content with what you have and then with prudence we can also invest and own 2 properties one day instead of keep pinning hopes ok crash - hope I am making some sense and in any case just my personal opinion
The government had already said many times that CMs were not meant to crash the market. Mr Khaw had said many times that he hoped for a soft landing. It means that prices should be allowed to correct gradually over a period of time.
The government had already said many times that CMs were not meant to crash the market. Mr Khaw had said many times that he hoped for a soft landing. It means that prices should be allowed to correct gradually over a period of time.
It's not correcting gradually as what we are hoping with the recent CM I feel - people seems to be absorbing the ABSD or there seems to be an ever insatiable wave of first time buyers or HDB upgraders whom dun need to pay ABSD and still paving the way for higher market sentiment though - I also waiting at the sidelines and have to keep reminding myself not to allow emotions take over and join the herd before its too late - but the dark side keeps beckoning me to make the commitment before price further defies gravity and shoot further up how :(
Amber Woods
07-04-13, 11:52
It's not correcting gradually as what we are hoping with the recent CM I feel - people seems to be absorbing the ABSD or there seems to be an ever insatiable wave of first time buyers or HDB upgraders whom dun need to pay ABSD and still paving the way for higher market sentiment though - I also waiting at the sidelines and have to keep reminding myself not to allow emotions take over and join the herd before its too late - but the dark side keeps beckoning me to make the commitment before price further defies gravity and shoot further up how :(
The current demand from first tiimers and upgraders alone is not sustainable. They are just taking the opportunity to buy since most investors and foreigners are not competing with them.
You can be sure more CMs to come if prices continue to rise. It is acceptable for demand to increase as prices start falling (with discounts from developers).
If everybody can control their emotions, who will want to buy at current high. It is only human for you to feel this way.
i have said property investment in spore going forward will face more political risk. today's sunday times have a centre piece by the state times editor talking about raising taxes for the rich., be it bringing back estate duty, tax on high income or capital gain. this is the social climate globally now and will gather strength. For spore it will happen at some point, but gradually. but it will impact the property market. If so, once again it will be the middle class that may disproportionately bear the brunt.
flagship74
07-04-13, 12:13
U think possible? With current CM on locals n FT, if they dispose who they gonna sell to? So how? Sell way way below valuation for pple to pickup? But then again most pple own property liao so how?
Anything can happen my friend. Sell to who? gd qtn but u think garment cares? u are to dispose your hse with the time frame given. sell below valuation is probably the best choice to dispose your asset fast enough..rem you have only 6 months time frame..:cheers1:
phantom_opera
07-04-13, 12:18
buy iskandar 300k more risky or OCR mm 600k near MRT??
when recession comes MM near MRT still can rent out as long as u lower rent
it is obvious
Anything can happen my friend. Sell to who? gd qtn but u think garment cares? u are to dispose your hse with the time frame given. sell below valuation is probably the best choice to dispose your asset fast enough..rem you have only 6 months time frame..:cheers1:
then pray n hope they wun implement and withdraw ruling for 60days for homeowners to "clearstock" :scared-4: :scared-4:
flagship74
07-04-13, 12:40
then pray n hope they wun implement and withdraw ruling for 60days for homeowners to "clearstock" :scared-4: :scared-4:
probably they will reduce it to 30days this time round:D
To be fair I am also pinning my hopes on a correction so that I can also change house but rationally in my head this will cause a lot more harm and wealth loss to the many Singaporeans owning those properties just for the sake of the small portion of people pinning their hopes for a major correction - the garment had to have a macro-economic perspective in mind and where the huge pain outweigh the perceived benefits it will be quite suicidal for the incumbent government especially with their dwindling public confidence in their policies - see their u turn for 60 days for the car CM ....
Hi danguard, please allow me to add on what you had mentioned above.
High property prices which far exceed income has serious social, economic and political implications. At the social level, it could create social divide. At the economic and finance level, it will affects inflation and cost competitveness. At the political level, high prices favour the rich more than the poor; so there is a need to manage wealth redistributions to gain political advantage.
You are right that the government should be looking at the property market at a macro economic level. It is too simplistic to suggest that price correction will hurt property owners and benefit the few who want to buy. On the contrary, even major price correction will not affect the majority who own and live in their only property. It is the minority who own mulitple properties or investment properties that will be more affected.
However, the decisions for the government to control property prices are for social, economic (finance) and political reasons. Only then will government decides how not to affect the people drastically should price corrects.
Hi danguard, please allow me to add on what you had mentioned above.
High property prices which far exceed income has serious social, economic and political implications. At the social level, it could create social divide. At the economic and finance level, it will affects inflation and cost competitveness. At the political level, high prices favour the rich more than the poor; so there is a need to manage wealth redistributions to gain political advantage.
You are right that the government should be looking at the property market at a macro economic level. It is too simplistic to suggest that price correction will hurt property owners and benefit the few who want to buy. On the contrary, even major price correction will not affect the majority who own and live in their only property. It is the minority who own mulitple properties or investment properties that will be more affected.
However, the decisions for the government to control property prices are for social, economic (finance) and political reasons. Only then will government decides how not to affect the people drastically should price corrects.
I think the above holds only to the extent that the majority single property owners are not highly leveraged in terms of mortgage loans though - otherwise direct impact on them will be felt when need top-up differential when revaluation suggests a big difference from when they took up the loan - might potentially have a domino effect though.
Kopi talk in my office with my colleagues suggest than 5/10 of my friends belong to that category :doh:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533467_10151304359647115_624268862_n.jpg
Ah gong ah ma. lai ah lai ah... cheap cheap only ah, help me downpay my next condo and we can 3Gen under 1 roof ah..
I think the above holds only to the extent that the majority single property owners are not highly leveraged in terms of mortgage loans though - otherwise direct impact on them will be felt when need top-up differential when revaluation suggests a big difference from when they took up the loan - might potentially have a domino effect though.
Kopi talk in my office with my colleagues suggest than 5/10 of my friends belong to that category :doh:
Agreed!
The single property owners who bought at recent high are consider minority as compare with the rest of owner occupiers. The CMs thus far are meant to prevent these buyers from having their loans larger than the value of their properties. The government has been helping this group of people without them realising it.
Agreed!
The single property owners who bought at recent high are consider minority as compare with the rest of owner occupiers. The CMs thus far are meant to prevent these buyers from having their loans larger than the value of their properties. The government has been helping this group of people without them realising it.
I am seriously baffled by your statement which implying that the gov is just an innocent by stander, while the property buyers are pushing the property price ever higher among themselves. Nothing is ever happen by accident. The rich is always enslave the poor. The powerful will always control the powerless. Isn't that the essence of free market. The concept of benevolent gov doesn't exist in the world today, not even in communist countries.
Buying a property is viewed by many as a form of risk taking or enterprise by many common people. For many people its the only form of enterprise they can do in the current economy situation. I personally foresight that it will come into this years ago. Personal income growth is not going to outperform inflation. In the future it will be even worst.
I suggest that we don't wait for benevolent gov to bring down prices. It's is not in the gov interest to see the property crash neither to bail out us in time of collapse. Gov only obligated to help the lowest end of the society, not u and me.
Estate duty will not be brought back, at least not for next few years! Why? You want to bet? Wowhahaha!
Also, Top-tier income will not be raised. Why? You want to bet?
So simple you also don't understand?! :doh:
Who will help to pay additional taxes to the state? Doesn't recent new tax policies tell you clearly already?! Who? Very simple, the middle-class and upper middle class, who makes up the majority! :scared-1:
i have said property investment in spore going forward will face more political risk. today's sunday times have a centre piece by the state times editor talking about raising taxes for the rich., be it bringing back estate duty, tax on high income or capital gain. this is the social climate globally now and will gather strength. For spore it will happen at some point, but gradually. but it will impact the property market. If so, once again it will be the middle class that may disproportionately bear the brunt.
I am seriously baffled by your statement which implying that the gov is just an innocent by stander, while the property buyers are pushing the property price ever higher among themselves. Nothing is ever happen by accident. The rich is always enslave the poor. The powerful will always control the powerless. Isn't that the essence of free market. The concept of benevolent gov doesn't exist in the world today, not even in communist countries.
Buying a property is viewed by many as a form of risk taking or enterprise by many common people. For many people its the only form of enterprise they can do in the current economy situation. I personally foresight that it will come into this years ago. Personal income growth is not going to outperform inflation. In the future it will be even worst.
I suggest that we don't wait for benevolent gov to bring down prices. It's is not in the gov interest to see the property crash neither to bail out us in time of collapse. Gov only obligated to help the lowest end of the society, not u and me.
this is some interesting perspective also - and true that prices will not go down to benefit specifically the middle class. To make more money, they will always aspire to upgrade and buy in the hopes next time will sell higher and make the differential with mortgage interest considered. Seems to be more believers than non-believers now that market is going up further with the white paper and all .... more CMs notwithstanding ....
means the government and rich will skim the cream off these pple as they continue to believe in good faith of the ever rising property market in the form of either taxes or capital gains when they sell off to these pple?
seems further that never a good time for middle class (like me) to enter unless have holding power ... but limit to how much my meagre pay can guard against ever rising inflation rates and property appreciation prices though :(
Estate duty will not be brought back, at least not for next few years! Why? You want to bet? Wowhahaha!
Also, Top-tier income will not be raised. Why? You want to bet?
So simple you also don't understand?! :doh:
Who will help to pay additional taxes to the state? Doesn't recent new tax policies tell you clearly already?! Who? Very simple, the middle-class and upper middle class, who makes up the majority! :scared-1:
i believe your points - makes for some common sense. This also presupposes that the government thinks the middle and upper-middle class property buying frenzy will persists to make up for additional tax revenue wor ... emo :(
You brought up a very point indeed.
To help safe-guard the single property owners, particularly first-time property buyers, their LTV should be 60% and not 80%! Isn't this what govt is saying that lower LTV is safer? So why they are not protecting first-time property buyers??? :banghead: That just goes to show that lower LTV is safer is not true right?
Agreed!
The single property owners who bought at recent high are consider minority as compare with the rest of owner occupiers. The CMs thus far are meant to prevent these buyers from having their loans larger than the value of their properties. The government has been helping this group of people without them realising it.
I am seriously baffled by your statement which implying that the gov is just an innocent by stander, while the property buyers are pushing the property price ever higher among themselves. Nothing is ever happen by accident. The rich is always enslave the poor. The powerful will always control the powerless. Isn't that the essence of free market. The concept of benevolent gov doesn't exist in the world today, not even in communist countries.
Buying a property is viewed by many as a form of risk taking or enterprise by many common people. For many people its the only form of enterprise they can do in the current economy situation. I personally foresight that it will come into this years ago. Personal income growth is not going to outperform inflation. In the future it will be even worst.
I suggest that we don't wait for benevolent gov to bring down prices. It's is not in the gov interest to see the property crash neither to bail out us in time of collapse. Gov only obligated to help the lowest end of the society, not u and me.
The assets enhance concept under the then PM GCT has created the challenges we (Singaporeans) are facing today. As a matured economy, the assets enhancement concept is facing limited success now and more challenges going forward. That is the reason why there is a need to go back to basic.
Government is and always a part of the equation. It is about doing what is politically correct at that point in time and righting the 'wrongs' when the situation demands.
I am seriously baffled by your statement which implying that the gov is just an innocent by stander, while the property buyers are pushing the property price ever higher among themselves. Nothing is ever happen by accident. The rich is always enslave the poor. The powerful will always control the powerless. Isn't that the essence of free market. The concept of benevolent gov doesn't exist in the world today, not even in communist countries.
Buying a property is viewed by many as a form of risk taking or enterprise by many common people. For many people its the only form of enterprise they can do in the current economy situation. I personally foresight that it will come into this years ago. Personal income growth is not going to outperform inflation. In the future it will be even worst.
I suggest that we don't wait for benevolent gov to bring down prices. It's is not in the gov interest to see the property crash neither to bail out us in time of collapse. Gov only obligated to help the lowest end of the society, not u and me.
They said this too before the Great Depression decimated many millionaires into paupers.
thomastansb
07-04-13, 15:09
I think it will crash 99%. Orchard will be selling at $2 psf.
Have been hearing all these similar "crash" since 2009...
Hi all...the price has just gone too far and much since 2008/2009. I think there should be a correction or a crash to normalize the ever-increasing psf these years. Could anyone share his/her thoughts that if correction would be imminent and will be beneficial to have everything reset to base?
You brought up a very point indeed.
To help safe-guard the single property owners, particularly first-time property buyers, their LTV should be 60% and not 80%! Isn't this what govt is saying that lower LTV is safer? So why they are not protecting first-time property buyers??? :banghead: That just goes to show that lower LTV is safer is not true right?
The government is very specific to protect buyers of HDB flats specifically:
Measures Specific to Public Housing
The Government is also introducing measures to further moderate the demand for HDB flats, instil greater financial prudence among buyers, and require owner occupation by PR buyers. The following measures will take effect on 12 January 2013:
a) Tighter eligibility for loans to buy HDB flats:
i) MAS will cap the Mortgage Servicing Ratio (MSR) for housing loans granted by financial institutions2 (http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page03a.aspx?id=14342#Endnote_2) at 30% of a borrower’s gross monthly income3 (http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page03a.aspx?id=14342#Endnote_3).
ii) For loans granted by HDB, the cap on the MSR will be lowered from 40% to 35%.
Creating property crash is for the rich to make more money? I am asking because as we know, after a crash, they are the only ones with money with the liquidity and cash to shop around and buy cheap cheap. The other group are those super high income groups, those whose income are in top-1 tier and whose income tax has been sliced from 25% to 20%. Wow! They sure saved a lot to be able to pay down payment for more properties with the saving in taxes! :p
And there is also another group who is afraid to keep so much cash in the banks, in case somebody do a copycat of Cyprus, where depositors' money will be confiscated to help bail out the banks! :simmering:
We know nowasdays these people like to be copycat, people implement ABSD they also implement ABSD etc! :doh:
I am seriously baffled by your statement which implying that the gov is just an innocent by stander, while the property buyers are pushing the property price ever higher among themselves. Nothing is ever happen by accident. The rich is always enslave the poor. The powerful will always control the powerless. Isn't that the essence of free market. The concept of benevolent gov doesn't exist in the world today, not even in communist countries.
Buying a property is viewed by many as a form of risk taking or enterprise by many common people. For many people its the only form of enterprise they can do in the current economy situation. I personally foresight that it will come into this years ago. Personal income growth is not going to outperform inflation. In the future it will be even worst.
I suggest that we don't wait for benevolent gov to bring down prices. It's is not in the gov interest to see the property crash neither to bail out us in time of collapse. Gov only obligated to help the lowest end of the society, not u and me.
Ai yo yo, you give credit to wrong person lah. It is Mr Lee Kuan Yew who first started this asset enhancement concept! Why you didn't heed Mr Lee's words?! He tell us not to sell your HDB flats! Never! He has done great credits to many HDB owners (past and present), otherwise they can never retire (not sufficient retirement fund) if rely solely on their own income! :cheers4:
So, you are advocating to over-turn what he advocates? :tsk-tsk:
The assets enhance concept under the then PM GCT has created the challenges we (Singaporeans) are facing today. As a matured economy, the assets enhancement concept is facing limited success now and more challenges going forward. That is the reason why there is a need to go back to basic.
Government is and always a part of the equation. It is about doing what is politically correct at that point in time and righting the 'wrongs' when the situation demands.
You bullshit is it? Why no lower LTV which is the most important safe-guard of all (in their own words)? :rolleyes:
Tighter eligibility? :doh:
The government is very specific to protect buyers of HDB flats specifically:
Measures Specific to Public Housing
The Government is also introducing measures to further moderate the demand for HDB flats, instil greater financial prudence among buyers, and require owner occupation by PR buyers. The following measures will take effect on 12 January 2013:
a) Tighter eligibility for loans to buy HDB flats:
i) MAS will cap the Mortgage Servicing Ratio (MSR) for housing loans granted by financial institutions2 (http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page03a.aspx?id=14342#Endnote_2) at 30% of a borrower’s gross monthly income3 (http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page03a.aspx?id=14342#Endnote_3).
ii) For loans granted by HDB, the cap on the MSR will be lowered from 40% to 35%.
Ai yo yo, you give credit to wrong person lah. It is Mr Lee Kuan Yew who first started this asset enhancement concept! Why you didn't heed Mr Lee's words?! He tell us not to sell your HDB flats! Never! He has done great credits to many HDB owners (past and present), otherwise they can never retire (not sufficient retirement fund) if rely solely on their own income! :cheers4:
So, you are advocating to over-turn what he advocates? :tsk-tsk:
It was Mr GCT (majored in Development Economics) who took the assets enhancement concept to the fullest during his regime.
You bullshit is it? Why no lower LTV which is the most important safe-guard of all (in their own words)? :rolleyes:
Tighter eligibility? :doh:
Politically and socially, you cannot prevent first timers to own their flats; they need a home. You can only try to deter them from buying expensive homes.
Politically and socially, you cannot even prevent anybody from buying their 2nd home, 3rd home, etc let alone first timers! This is so obvious isn't it? I am just saying that since govt says lower LTV is for the prudence of the property buyers and the banks, they should also introduce lower LTV of 60% for first timers! Nobody is stopping them from buying properties! Just that they must have enough money to pay 40%! Is the govt saying first time property buyers do not need such prudence? :scared-3:
Politically and socially, you cannot prevent first timers to own their flats; they need a home. You can only try to deter them from buying expensive homes.
The assets enhance concept under the then PM GCT has created the challenges we (Singaporeans) are facing today. As a matured economy, the assets enhancement concept is facing limited success now and more challenges going forward. That is the reason why there is a need to go back to basic.
Government is and always a part of the equation. It is about doing what is politically correct at that point in time and righting the 'wrongs' when the situation demands.
Assets are naturally enhance (appreciate) as gov keep pouring money into infrastructure works. Most Singaporeans don't appreciate the amount of works done into this tiny island. We are betting a tiny amount, while the gov betting the big amount. What is my million worth? In comparison to gov billions.
Singapore economy is not matured by miles. Many infrastructure projects are not completed for many years to come. Many projects are not even started yet. The assets enhancement is only began.
So, now you admit that Mr GCT is not the first person to introduce the concept of asset enhancement right? I am correcting your misleading statement which seems to imply that it is Mr GCT who started the asset enhancement scheme and not Mr LKY.
So what are you trying to argue? :doh:
It was Mr GCT (majored in Development Economics) who took the assets enhancement concept to the fullest during his regime.
Assets are naturally enhance (appreciate) as gov keep pouring money into infrastructure works. Most Singaporeans don't appreciate the amount of works done into this tiny island. We are betting a tiny amount, while the gov betting the big amount. What is my million worth? In comparison to gov billions.
Singapore economy is not matured by miles. Many infrastructure projects are not completed for many years to come. Many projects are not even started yet. The assets enhancement is only began.
A country cannot depends on domestic reconstructions to sustain the economy.
So, now you admit that Mr GCT is not the first person to introduce the concept of asset enhancement right? I am correcting your misleading statement which seems to imply that it is Mr GCT who started the asset enhancement scheme and not Mr LKY.
So what are you trying to argue? :doh:
This is not the point of contention. GCT is in history respnsible for it.
Politically and socially, you cannot even prevent anybody from buying their 2nd home, 3rd home, etc let alone first timers! This is so obvious isn't it? I am just saying that since govt says lower LTV is for the prudence of the property buyers and the banks, they should also introduce lower LTV of 60% for first timers! Nobody is stopping them from buying properties! Just that they must have enough money to pay 40%! Is the govt saying first time property buyers do not need such prudence? :scared-3:
Maybe you can suggest to the government.
Don't need to suggest, they know this very well than to follow what you all advocates... :p
Maybe you can suggest to the government.
So you are telling us that it is GCT in history of Singapore who started this asset enhancement scheme? :scared-2:
This is not the point of contention. GCT is in history respnsible for it.
Originally Posted by teddybear
So, now you admit that Mr GCT is not the first person to introduce the concept of asset enhancement right? I am correcting your misleading statement which seems to imply that it is Mr GCT who started the asset enhancement scheme and not Mr LKY.
So what are you trying to argue? :doh:
A country cannot depends on domestic reconstructions to sustain the economy.
To sustain the economy, no matter what strategy u are using. Domestic reconstruction has to be done first and foremost. We just enjoy the ride as assets appreciate.
U ought to be more confident to live in a nation of creditor, not a debtor.
Don't need to suggest, they know this very well than to follow what you all advocates... :p
I am no policy makers. However, one must try to understand how policy markers work. The government has said many times not to crash the market with one single blow. Your sugestions may well come soon if thing gets out of hands.
To sustain the economy, no matter what strategy u are using. Domestic reconstruction has to be done first and foremost. We just enjoy the ride as assets appreciate.
U ought to be more confident to live in a nation of creditor, not a debtor.
The US is not the model society Singapore is trying to emulate. Singapore is still very much a Confucianism society. Look at Japan, the Japaneses prefer to clear their debts during the last 20 years after the burst of the assets bubble instead of borrowing more to sustain their economy.
Allthepies
07-04-13, 16:05
Let's say the entry price for :
OCR - 600-700psf
CCR - 1000-unlimited psf
RCR - 700-900psf
HDB:
EC - 500-600k
5 Room - 300-350k
4 Room - 180-260k
3 Room - 100-140k
How about price really reset to your ideal level, say 600psf for your OCR condo, and then you go in to buy. After you buy, we immediately reset again, and your OCR condo reset to 60psf. You immediately forced to top up:D :D :D
Some of my evil colleagues hoping everyday for price to crash so that they can upgrade their houses. Some even hope for war, famine, disaster... Sigh... they not scared of bad karma to befall them, especially those with children...
How about price really reset to your ideal level, say 600psf for your OCR condo, and then you go in to buy. After you buy, we immediately reset again, and your OCR condo reset to 60psf. You immediately forced to top up:D :D :D
Some of my evil colleagues hoping everyday for price to crash so that they can upgrade their houses. Some even hope for war, famine, disaster... Sigh... they not scared of bad karma to befall them, especially those with children...
Brudder, I dont think they are hoping, but rather, waiting. Waiting for crash to happen. They don't look at history to guide them lah...
Look below.... When did all e crash occur????
http://www.redas.com/einformation/mt/researchpaper/PPIGovtmeasures.pdf
:cheers4: :cheers4: :cheers4:
The US is not the model society Singapore is trying to emulate. Singapore is still very much a Confucianism society. Look at Japan, the Japaneses prefer to clear their debts during the last 20 years after the burst of the assets bubble instead of borrowing more to sustain their economy.
I was hopeful that u can convince me that singapore property price is not sustainable. But sg is too small to apply to other nations economic model. When the rest of the world in economy turmoil, sg will only shine even brighter. The genius lies in the ability to have economy growth without producing anything. Sg is an economy where foreigners demand are service by foreign workers. Sg only collect taxes.
I was hopeful that u can convince me that singapore property price is not sustainable. But sg is too small to apply to other nations economic model. When the rest of the world in economy turmoil, sg will only shine even brighter. The genius lies in the ability to have economy growth without producing anything. Sg is an economy where foreigners demand are service by foreign workers. Sg only collect taxes.
If Singapore is a city within a bigger country, I would agree with you.
If Singapore is a city within a bigger country, I would agree with you.
On the contrary, No country in the world can be similar to Spore as no country in the world is a city and a country. Every country has a top notch city within a country. For Spore even tampines, jurong, cck, and woodlands are city. We are a city state.
I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and not wreck their brains on a sunday. U wanna buy, u buy, u dont want to, dont buy.
On the contrary, No country in the world can be similar to Spore as no country in the world is a city and a country. Every country has a top notch city within a country. For Spore even tampines, jurong, cck, and woodlands are city. We are a city state.
I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and not wreck their brains on a sunday. U wanna buy, u buy, u dont want to, dont buy.
I am talking about economic for a small country, not city.
It is a dry and hard subject for a Sunday afternoon. Take a break!
If Singapore is a city within a bigger country, I would agree with you.
If sg is part of Indonesia, I will assure u that the price will be many times more expensive. Everywhere in sg will be orchard road price.
If sg is part of Indonesia, I will assure u that the price will be many times more expensive. Everywhere in sg will be orchard road price.
Exactly! .........................make sure it is not near any active volcano.
If sg is part of Indonesia, I will assure u that the price will be many times more expensive. Everywhere in sg will be orchard road price.
Brudder, I agree with you...
Many don't understand the impact of CM and 7 somemore on the property market. If there were no CM, what would have happened... So how to crash???
If sg is part of Indonesia, I will assure u that the price will be many times more expensive. Everywhere in sg will be orchard road price.
That makes no sense. Firstly u have no statistic to show sg will be sg if it was part of indonesia. Secondly, u have nothing to show if the prices would increase EVEN if it was part of indonesia and at the level it is now.
U from Indo?
That makes no sense. Firstly u have no statistic to show sg will be sg if it was part of indonesia. Secondly, u have nothing to show if the prices would increase EVEN if it was part of indonesia and at the level it is now.
U from Indo?
There is part of Jakarta, that called kelapa gading where u will find a property costing over 5 million sgd, while the surrounding area don't even cost half that much. The different is when there was a riot, this area was protected by the marine. That is how much a safety cost to some people. Sadly, some people in sg often can't appreciate safety as an asset.
I was talking to my French tenant a moment ago. He said singaporean is crazy over things like cars and paying high prices for properties that are far away from town. Well, he has invested in a condo near emily in 2011 and rented out. He still prefers to stay near my condo as it is just a short walk to his office which is stress free and does not need to take taxi. I have just rented out to another brits who was staying at one shenton previously as his workplace is just walking distance too.
On the contrary, No country in the world can be similar to Spore as no country in the world is a city and a country. Every country has a top notch city within a country. For Spore even tampines, jurong, cck, and woodlands are city. We are a city state.
I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and not wreck their brains on a sunday. U wanna buy, u buy, u dont want to, dont buy.
There is part of Jakarta, that called kelapa gading where u will find a property costing over 5 million sgd, while the surrounding area don't even cost half that much. The different is when there was a riot, this area was protected by the marine. That is how much a safety cost to some people. Sadly, some people in sg often can't appreciate safety as an asset.
Agreed! We get the best of all worlds here with regards to safety
I was talking to my French tenant a moment ago. He said singaporean is crazy over things like cars and paying high prices for properties that are far away from town. Well, he has invested in a condo near emily in 2011 and rented out. He still prefers to stay near my condo as it is just a short walk to his office which is stress free and does not need to take taxi. I have just rented out to another brits who was staying at one shenton previously as his workplace is just walking distance too.
Agreed dude! Many offices were near the city. I have condo being rented out within the city too. But singapore is changing and many businesses are moving away from the city, more so by the govt coz cbd is prime. Jurong, paya lebar, ubi, seletar etc are many places with huge workforces coming in the line of engineering, aerospace, industrial and more. Investors are thus being more diversified.
Agreed! We get the best of all worlds here with regards to safety
That only safety. Imagine if u throw in mrt, clean water treatment plant, world class airport, etc. Just like what sg has, how much more can u expect that area will worth?
There is part of Jakarta, that called kelapa gading where u will find a property costing over 5 million sgd, while the surrounding area don't even cost half that much. The different is when there was a riot, this area was protected by the marine. That is how much a safety cost to some people. Sadly, some people in sg often can't appreciate safety as an asset.
That correct on safety asset, man ppl can not appreciate it given that they had not gone thru...in 1998, I have to run for life, not even the company can help but only can only said do whst ever it take to get out indo alive, it was my good old driver that drove me to bungdong and via domestic flight to batam.. Today he still remain as friend..
Even today, we have to pay agent to get marine to clear the area when ever we have meetings between bule and gov ppl..
Certain business sectors are still in the city even though there are new emerging businesses in other parts of Singapore. Good to have the high-paying sectors in the CBD region as they will still when you increase the rental.. Furthermore, they are hardly around half the time as they are flying around. :D
Agreed dude! Many offices were near the city. I have condo being rented out within the city too. But singapore is changing and many businesses are moving away from the city, more so by the govt coz cbd is prime. Jurong, paya lebar, ubi, seletar etc are many places with huge workforces coming in the line of engineering, aerospace, industrial and more. Investors are thus being more diversified.
Brudder, I agree with you...
Many don't understand the impact of CM and 7 somemore on the property market. If there were no CM, what would have happened... So how to crash???
Bro chestnut... Where u picked some of that indo business mind? Some Singaporeans don't realized how tough the world outside really is.
That correct on safety asset, man ppl can not appreciate it given that they had not gone thru...in 1998, I have to run for life, not even the company can help but only can only said do whst ever it take to get out indo alive, it was my good old driver that drove me to bungdong and via domestic flight to batam.. Today he still remain as friend..
Even today, we have to pay agent to get marine to clear the area when ever we have meetings between bule and gov ppl..
When safety is guarantee, it becomes worthless to Singaporeans. As the world turn more chaotic, one day the 18% stamp duty on foreigners will become nothing to them.
Bro chestnut... Where u picked some of that indo business mind? Some Singaporeans don't realized how tough the world outside really is.
I had the pleasure to frequent Jakarta on business in the 90s' during the transition period of the fall of President Suharto and the then upcoming President Habibie. One of the taxi driver commented that I was very brave to travel alone to Jakarta during this time.
To many rich and middle-class Indonesians, Singapore is their second homes and that is understandable.
We are free from natural disasters too. Good security, good medical, good education.
Allthepies
07-04-13, 17:57
When safety is guarantee, it becomes worthless to Singaporeans. As the world turn more chaotic, one day the 18% stamp duty on foreigners will become nothing to them.
Rightfully said
ForeignTalent
07-04-13, 19:53
When safety is guarantee, it becomes worthless to Singaporeans. As the world turn more chaotic, one day the 18% stamp duty on foreigners will become nothing to them.
Agree with indomie, it really hurts to pay 15+3 on stamp duty. But considering I can have a safe place to go in case things turned ugly in Indonesia, I really think it is worthy.
Stayed at Kelapa Gading for more then 10 years, considered as a good neighborhood and relatively safe area, I still chose to move to an apartment because I think it will be safer for me and my family.
So safety is really important for a lot of people.
Bro chestnut... Where u picked some of that indo business mind? Some Singaporeans don't realized how tough the world outside really is.
Brudder indomie, I have been doing regional job for 20 yrs. I have seen the world and its transformation. U will never know how great Singapore is until u start traveling. So in many ways, I really don't blame people for being frustrated. I was frustrated before I saw the world.
:cheers4: :cheers4:
Agree with indomie, it really hurts to pay 15+3 on stamp duty. But considering I can have a safe place to go in case things turned ugly in Indonesia, I really think it is worthy.
Stayed at Kelapa Gading for more then 10 years, considered as a good neighborhood and relatively safe area, I still chose to move to an apartment because I think it will be safer for me and my family.
So safety is really important for a lot of people.
Finally someone who understand what I am talking about. If we in jkt can get 1.5% loan for 30 years at 30% down payment, life would be so wonderful.
indonesia property are worthless. yes, it looks attractive over the past few years, in terms of the gain, and varoous expert projection also makes it v attractive. however, many fail to realize that it is made up of majority of people with low literacy and are easily manipulated by the unscrupulous people running for elections. a simple brawl between two people can escakte to riots, racial massacre in a short time. everything will be reset. history always repeat one lah.
in short, forget about indo properties, useless place.
The housing bubble is more likely to happen in China than S'pore. Recent reports estimate there are 64.5 million vacant "investment" flats in China.
Who will lose in a bubble?
The Chinese investors who overpaid for grossly inflated luxury condos will suffer massive losses, developers dependent on a fast-rising bubble market will go bust, and somebody (all the ordinary folks!!) will end up covering the losses as bankrupt developers renege on their loans.
But who suffers the most? Ordinary people !! In the bubble years, they're priced out of the market for affordable housing. Yet when the bubble bursts, they'll pay for the clean-up- it has happened in the US too! It may happen in China.
So in every bubble, ordinary folks have it hardest!! Do we still want a housing crash in Singapore?? The repercussions will be felt most by the man-in-the-street, not the rich guys.
The housing bubble is more likely to happen in China than S'pore. Recent reports estimate there are 64.5 million vacant "investment" flats in China.
Who will lose in a bubble?
The Chinese investors who overpaid for grossly inflated luxury condos will suffer massive losses, developers dependent on a fast-rising bubble market will go bust, and somebody (all the ordinary folks!!) will end up covering the losses as bankrupt developers renege on their loans.
But who suffers the most? Ordinary people !! In the bubble years, they're priced out of the market for affordable housing. Yet when the bubble bursts, they'll pay for the clean-up- it has happened in the US too! It may happen in China.
So in every bubble, ordinary folks have it hardest!! Do we still want a housing crash in Singapore?? The repercussions will be felt most by the man-in-the-street, not the rich guys.
This probably explains the more than normal zealous attempts by them to offload their Chinese properties and then relook at other parts of Asia to do diversify their risks ? Singaporeans other than the most elite kanna priced out again :(
So in every bubble, ordinary folks have it hardest!! Do we still want a housing crash in Singapore??
Housing bubble starts to build up when everybody is telling each other to buy believing that price can only go up. This bubble will continue to build up and the bubble will only burst when crisis hits or when there is a sudden change in the operating environment.
History has proven that most governments could not effectively prevent a housing bubble from blewing because of social, economic and political reasons. Hopefully, our government can this time round.
Housing bubble starts to build up when everybody is telling each other to buy believing that price can only go up. This bubble will continue to build up and the bubble will only burst when crisis hits or when there is a sudden change in the operating environment.
History has proven that most governments could not effectively prevent a housing bubble from blewing because of social, economic and political reasons. Hopefully, our government can this time round.
If you all read Sunday Times today, you will know what are the risks our market is facing. Leeds is right, there are more and more people telling (not others but) THEMSELVES the property prices confirm will go up and will never come down to last year's prices anymore.
Read about this Aaron Wan nonsense ... He is the face of the next bubble bursting ... if you see thousands and thousands of Aaron Wan, that means market is bursting quite soon.
DKSG
Why? I thought he is impressive at 25 years old to be able to afford private property when many his age are CPCB gov to provide cheap private condo to them because they can't afford condos at current price at heir age!
If you all read Sunday Times today, you will know what are the risks our market is facing. Leeds is right, there are more and more people telling (not others but) THEMSELVES the property prices confirm will go up and will never come down to last year's prices anymore.
Read about this Aaron Wan nonsense ... He is the face of the next bubble bursting ... if you see thousands and thousands of Aaron Wan, that means market is bursting quite soon.
DKSG
Its not the property prices that have increased, its the money supply.If there is bubble its in the massive printing by FED,ECB and now BOJ. And can you fight those guys?
If you all read Sunday Times today, you will know what are the risks our market is facing. Leeds is right, there are more and more people telling (not others but) THEMSELVES the property prices confirm will go up and will never come down to last year's prices anymore.
Read about this Aaron Wan nonsense ... He is the face of the next bubble bursting ... if you see thousands and thousands of Aaron Wan, that means market is bursting quite soon.
DKSG
Read my signature. :D
Good house
07-04-13, 23:04
That correct on safety asset, man ppl can not appreciate it given that they had not gone thru...in 1998, I have to run for life, not even the company can help but only can only said do whst ever it take to get out indo alive, it was my good old driver that drove me to bungdong and via domestic flight to batam.. Today he still remain as friend..
Even today, we have to pay agent to get marine to clear the area when ever we have meetings between bule and gov ppl..
Yes , many cars was dumped at JKT airport...........people just want to get out and the chaos.......to board the extra flight....:scared-2: :scared-3: :scared-3: :scared-3: .....the rape and burning in the city:hell-hath-no-fury:
Singaporean must learn to treasure the peace we have and safeguard it
Its not the property prices that have increased, its the money supply.If there is bubble its in the massive printing by FED,ECB and now BOJ. And can you fight those guys?
Ya, I agreed with you. No way we can fight with them.
Knowing that if they keep printing money, how are we going fight inflation here.
Ya, I agreed with you. No way we can fight with them.
Knowing that if they keep printing money, how are we going fight inflation here.
Buy properties!
If a 25 year old knows that the easy way to make himself rich is to use every cent he has to hoot one MM, those older folks who MTBs and shout here are seroiusly missing a very very important point!
News just report even Geylang shops are selling at > $10,000 psf!
What are you waiting for ? Anything less than $9,000 and nearer to town is a must buy !!
DKSG
Ya, I agreed with you. No way we can fight with them.
Knowing that if they keep printing money, how are we going fight inflation here.
Printing money doesn't mean all assets will appreciate forever because money can flow from one asset to other, from one place to another. Gold is dropping. Oil is dropping. BDI is dropping.
Recently, there's a leak on tax haven customer list. God knows what's on that list. :D
Office Boy is proud to inform u all that all the property snapshots Channel U is showing now, Office Boy can tell which condo it is !
DKSG
Its not the property prices that have increased, its the money supply.If there is bubble its in the massive printing by FED,ECB and now BOJ. And can you fight those guys?
The increase in money supply has resulted in lower interest rates and hence increasing the asset bubbles in Asia; strangly not in the countries the money supplies were generated.
So what wll happen when there is a sudden change of operating condition when investors realise that they could buy cheaper assets elsewhere instead of holding on to their inflated assets in Asia?
Yes , many cars was dumped at JKT airport...........people just want to get out and the chaos.......to board the extra flight....:scared-2: :scared-3: :scared-3: :scared-3: .....the rape and burning in the city:hell-hath-no-fury:
Singaporean must learn to treasure the peace we have and safeguard itMost of us locals are forgetful bunch of people. only see the surface, WAH, PRICE SHOT UP AH, WAH THAT ANALYST SAY GOING TO BE SOLID PERFORMANCE FOR JKT AH... all blur blur go buy, totally forget about the incident in Indo not too long ago.
The increase in money supply has resulted in lower interest rates and hence increasing the asset bubbles in Asia; strangly not in the countries the money supplies were generated.
So what wll happen when there is a sudden change of operating condition when investors realise that they could buy cheaper assets elsewhere instead of holding on to their inflated assets in Asia?
they expect asia to do well, hence the fund flow. if they expected US to do well, the funds will flow there.
Most of us locals are forgetful bunch of people. only see the surface, WAH, PRICE SHOT UP AH, WAH THAT ANALYST SAY GOING TO BE SOLID PERFORMANCE FOR JKT AH... all blur blur go buy, totally forget about the incident in Indo not too long ago.
Exponential growth doesn't happen in the most stable of environment. It happens in places where transition is taking place. Where the risk is equate to opportunity. Where the fearless taking the benefit from the fearful. There are things that I can never describe in words, but u can feel if u come down here to feel the vibration and the energy for yourself.
In general u should invest in places where u believe a transition is taking place. That's how u make a lot of money.
The increase in money supply has resulted in lower interest rates and hence increasing the asset bubbles in Asia; strangly not in the countries the money supplies were generated.
So what wll happen when there is a sudden change of operating condition when investors realise that they could buy cheaper assets elsewhere instead of holding on to their inflated assets in Asia?
Why would anyone invest in Asia rather than developed countries?
Cause people believe in Asia.That's where the young population is which well be driving world going forward.
Singapore gives best of both world good governance and access to developing region.
People would invest in even Africa if its wasn't the governance issues.
Heck even i would.
You need to see what prices would be without CMs to understand we are in a money bubble not a property price bubble.
And that bubble will not stop.that's the easy way out for every country.
Next recession? Even more money printing.
Why would anyone invest in Asia rather than developed countries?
Cause people believe in Asia.That's where the young population is which well be driving world going forward.
Singapore gives best of both world good governance and access to developing region.
People would invest in even Africa if its wasn't the governance issues.
Heck even i would.
You need to see what prices would be without CMs to understand we are in a money bubble not a property price bubble.
And that bubble will not stop.that's the easy way out for every country.
Next recession? Even more money printing.
Money flow, interest rates, exchange rates, inflation and the economics of the MAJOR world economies will determine where the flow of investments for businesses and assets investment.
Know a lawyer who has sem-retired at late 30s and own several good passive income generating properties. Just spend a few months in a year travelling. :D
Buy properties!
If a 25 year old knows that the easy way to make himself rich is to use every cent he has to hoot one MM, those older folks who MTBs and shout here are seroiusly missing a very very important point!
News just report even Geylang shops are selling at > $10,000 psf!
What are you waiting for ? Anything less than $9,000 and nearer to town is a must buy !!
DKSG
Allthepies
08-04-13, 08:46
Know a lawyer who has sem-retired at late 30s and own several good passive income generating properties. Just spend a few months in a year travelling. :D
shiok, that's my dream lifestyle...
Know a lawyer who has sem-retired at late 30s and own several good passive income generating properties. Just spend a few months in a year travelling. :D
That's the goal for many, including those hoping for a crash. Heh.
I thought it will be the end of the such lifestyle when property market crashes
rather than minor correction. The whole world will be in crisis with worldwide retrenchment. Expats will return home and who will rent your place at good rental rate.
That's the goal for many, including those hoping for a crash. Heh.
phantom_opera
08-04-13, 09:40
I was wrong about 10y UST, I thought it would somehow hit 2.2% this year ... but the dismay US employment report just confirmed one thing .... low interest rate is here to stay ... US is Japan II
10Y UST at 1.7% now
Those hoping for a rise of interest rate anytime soon will be disappointed
Hi danguard, please allow me to add on what you had mentioned above.
High property prices which far exceed income has serious social, economic and political implications. At the social level, it could create social divide. At the economic and finance level, it will affects inflation and cost competitveness. At the political level, high prices favour the rich more than the poor; so there is a need to manage wealth redistributions to gain political advantage.
You are right that the government should be looking at the property market at a macro economic level. It is too simplistic to suggest that price correction will hurt property owners and benefit the few who want to buy. On the contrary, even major price correction will not affect the majority who own and live in their only property. It is the minority who own mulitple properties or investment properties that will be more affected.
However, the decisions for the government to control property prices are for social, economic (finance) and political reasons. Only then will government decides how not to affect the people drastically should price corrects.
Agree with you on this. But whose income is been peg ?
If you re look at the new segregation and definition of low, medium and high income earners, you will realise there is a new classification, lower to high income and then then high and super high .
therefore the earning power is now very skewed towards the "others" then the current set of earners.
If we continue this pathway of inviting people to come to our hospitable country, with only the layers of min 10K and above earners and age 30 on wards, we will very quickly realise there is no an issue to adjust prices upwards based on affordability.
ah tan ah tan ah tan....if 1 year ago you had bought your dream property would you still wish for crash today...:doh:...live and let live....:2cents:
Agree with you on this. But whose income is been peg ?
If you re look at the new segregation and definition of low, medium and high income earners, you will realise there is a new classification, lower to high income and then then high and super high .
therefore the earning power is now very skewed towards the "others" then the current set of earners.
If we continue this pathway of inviting people to come to our hospitable country, with only the layers of min 10K and above earners and age 30 on wards, we will very quickly realise there is no an issue to adjust prices upwards based on affordability.
What you mentioned here is the widening of income gap or the increase in income disparity we now experience as we move toward a knowledge based economy. This is a serious social issue facing our economy and that is why the government has been pushing for higher wages for the lower income group so aggressively lately. This income disparity is the reason why the government is looking at how to make housing more affordable.
Singapore's productivity is lagging compared with other matured economies. Increasing wages without a corresponding increase in productivity will affect our competitiveness. It takes time to improve productivity with the right policies. Meanwhile, there is a real need to address the income disparity by offering more affordable housing and containing inflation. The government is doing all these.
his title says "correction" but his figures says crash leh...:doh:
I thought it will be the end of the such lifestyle when property market crashes
rather than minor correction. The whole world will be in crisis with worldwide retrenchment. Expats will return home and who will rent your place at good rental rate.
When times are tough. Have to take less holidays. So assume there are 4 good years and 3 bad years in every cycle. During those 4 years, your friend has probably travelled and seen more of the world than someone who works 9-5 everyday for the last 10 and perhaps the next 10 years as well.
There are some meaningful sharings in this thread.
We should appreciate what Singapore is offering us, including the safety. We should also be humble and realize that there are other cities developing really fast, especially in China, and we should realize that Singapore is so small and that we have no choice but to continue to attract more good quality immigrants to achieve more substantial critical mass and sustain Singapore as what it is now.
According to market research agency Datamonitor, Singapore has about 500,000 people in the “emerging affluent” class with investible assets of $50,000 to $200,000.
This segment of people is expected to increase by 10% year-on-year in the next 3 years.
Their liquid assets are also projected to grow 10% annually in the next 3 years.
Mr Umang Moondra, Citibank Singapore’s head of retail banking, said, “They account for nearly 10 per cent of the total population here.”
Another Citibank personnel, Mr Shrikant Bhat, head of wealth management, said, “Through our experience, many customers with less than $200,000 investible assets tend to be overly focused on interest rates and quick ways to make their money grow.”
“They do not take a holistic or long-term view of their overall finances.”
Since 2011, Citibank said it has seen a 60% rise in new customers with more than $50,000 of assets under management.
It is not known what percentage of this “emerging affluent” class are Singaporeans and what percentage are foreigners living or working in Singapore.
I thought it will be the end of the such lifestyle when property market crashes
rather than minor correction. The whole world will be in crisis with worldwide retrenchment. Expats will return home and who will rent your place at good rental rate.
If there is only a moderate local (non-worldwide) crash, the rental market could still be OK as people would prefer to rent rather than buy because of the economic uncertainty. As long as one is not over-leveraged, you can still ride out such times of crisis. You just have to be prepared to drop your asking rent.
And curtail the holidays (or go to cheaper places).
ah tan ah tan ah tan....if 1 year ago you had bought your dream property would you still wish for crash today...:doh:...live and let live....:2cents:
Brudder Radha, arent u glad you bought :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
I am happy for you leap into the second prop....:D:D:D:D
Good house
08-04-13, 11:49
What you mentioned here is the widening of income gap or the increase in income disparity we now experience as we move toward a knowledge based economy. This is a serious social issue facing our economy and that is why the government has been pushing for higher wages for the lower income group so aggressively lately. This income disparity is the reason why the government is looking at how to make housing more affordable.
Singapore's productivity is lagging compared with other matured economies. Increasing wages without a corresponding increase in productivity will affect our competitiveness. It takes time to improve productivity with the right policies. Meanwhile, there is a real need to address the income disparity by offering more affordable housing and containing inflation. The government is doing all these.
This is the right direction to go but a challenging one. Effort has to come from all level.
This is the right direction to go but a challenging one. Effort has to come from all level.
The government is dead serious in trying to contain inflation. The two major components which largely affect inflation are transportation and housing (rental). We have seen what MAS did to the transportation segment (recent tweets to control COE prices). Housing has always been in the radar and the government will spare no effort to bring down the prices of housing. This is the only way to tame inflation.
Most of us locals are forgetful bunch of people. only see the surface, WAH, PRICE SHOT UP AH, WAH THAT ANALYST SAY GOING TO BE SOLID PERFORMANCE FOR JKT AH... all blur blur go buy, totally forget about the incident in Indo not too long ago.
During the Indo crisis, indome i mean the noodle manufacturer, sold a pack of 5 for SG 5 cents to help the poor and to help to calm the disparity ill feeling..
But ppl are opportunities, control the retailer market and hold the sale and later sold for higher prices.
Meaning what ? when there crisis, there opportunity. If you have money, you make more money...And those are the places where the smell of money are every where...
his title says "correction" but his figures says crash leh...:doh:
The Market is correcting itself, prices are slowly moving up to be in line with the world money flows.
What out for the March figures, then people will know the meaning of corrections.
DKSG
I was wrong about 10y UST, I thought it would somehow hit 2.2% this year ... but the dismay US employment report just confirmed one thing .... low interest rate is here to stay ... US is Japan II
10Y UST at 1.7% now
Those hoping for a rise of interest rate anytime soon will be disappointed
Ho Say Liaoo. ...:)
The government is dead serious in trying to contain inflation. The two major components which largely affect inflation are transportation and housing (rental). We have seen what MAS did to the transportation segment (recent tweets to control COE prices). Housing has always been in the radar and the government will spare no effort to bring down the prices of housing. This is the only way to tame inflation.
Housing and transport may come down.
But with curbs in foreign workers, inflation will hit new highs.
Can u imagine going back to 600 psf condo when the construction cost itself would be 500 psf?
Prices of cars can swing 10-25% but not so easy for properties as we have main bulk of housing which is public.
Housing and transport may come down.
But with curbs in foreign workers, inflation will hit new highs.
Can u imagine going back to 600 psf condo when the construction cost itself would be 500 psf?
Prices of cars can swing 10-25% but not so easy for properties as we have main bulk of housing which is public.
That is why it takes time to bring down inflation.
Prices of cars can swing 10-25% but not so easy for properties as we have main bulk of housing which is public.
I think many people got it wrong.
It is NOT that they are trying to bring the absolute prices down, they are just trying to bring down the RATE of increase.
Like I said, an increase of 1% per month/quarter, maybe a 4-5% increase year on year is the target.
DKSG
Housing and transport may come down.
But with curbs in foreign workers, inflation will hit new highs.
Can u imagine going back to 600 psf condo when the construction cost itself would be 500 psf?
The curbs in foreign workers is one of the longer term policy to force companies to increase productivity. As long as we continue to see two foreign workers directing traffic when doing minor road works, we are not there yet.
How to ensure the current salary catch up with the property prices even by dampening the rate of rise when the absolute value of resale HDB has already ballooned? New and old hdb prices are difficult to be delinked. Private is even more challenging.
I think many people got it wrong.
It is NOT that they are trying to bring the absolute prices down, they are just trying to bring down the RATE of increase.
Like I said, an increase of 1% per month/quarter, maybe a 4-5% increase year on year is the target.
DKSG
Housing and transport may come down.
But with curbs in foreign workers, inflation will hit new highs.
Can u imagine going back to 600 psf condo when the construction cost itself would be 500 psf?
how do you get the construction cost 500psf ?
when i looked at apartments in australia, i scratched my head. how come can be cheaper than singapore apartment?
which component is cheaper and more expensive than singapore?
Condo Kaiser
08-04-13, 14:08
Raw material and building height...
martialsin
08-04-13, 14:08
The curbs in foreign workers is one of the longer term policy to force companies to increase productivity. As long as we continue to see two foreign workers directing traffic when doing minor road works, we are not there yet.
There will not be increase in productivity. QS are already factoring a 10% increase in construction cost. Its only going to be costlier
There will not be increase in productivity. QS are already factoring a 10% increase in construction cost. Its only going to be costlier
The transition from using cheap labour to curbing foreign workers to attain higher productivity will be a painful one. Initially, costs will increase due to the transition. It will be a long term process to see results.
How to ensure the current salary catch up with the property prices even by dampening the rate of rise when the absolute value of resale HDB has already ballooned? New and old hdb prices are difficult to be delinked. Private is even more challenging.
Something which many people also dont know.
Salaries are catching up with HDB prices.
THe catch here is that salaries of of some people (eg locals) has been going up very slowly compared to HDB prices. BUT BUT BUT, if we take a look at average salaries including those PRs, then they are moving quite in line with prices.
This is because we keep bringing in people at the higher income bracket.
In the past maybe a regular graduate couple is ranked top 20% of the country, and should be able to afford a decent PC. BUT BUT BUT, now with the influx of higher salaried foreign workers (professionals/businessmen, etc), this same couple suddenly becomes top 30% only and no longer should be able to afford a PC.
Such are hard truths that the government find it very very difficult to tell this couple in their face. How to say ? "Sorry Sir, your social Echeleon has been demoted from top 20% to top 30%, class B to class C!"
I hope our yowetan is not one of these, else quite sad.
DKSG
I think many people got it wrong.
It is NOT that they are trying to bring the absolute prices down, they are just trying to bring down the RATE of increase.
Like I said, an increase of 1% per month/quarter, maybe a 4-5% increase year on year is the target.
DKSG
wah... i like.
4-5% asset price appreciation + 3-4% rental yield... u get 7-9% unleverage yield... and more than 10% after leveraging.
very attractive... buy more ppty!
Something which many people also dont know.
Salaries are catching up with HDB prices.
THe catch here is that salaries of of some people (eg locals) has been going up very slowly compared to HDB prices. BUT BUT BUT, if we take a look at average salaries including those PRs, then they are moving quite in line with prices.
This is because we keep bringing in people at the higher income bracket.
In the past maybe a regular graduate couple is ranked top 20% of the country, and should be able to afford a decent PC. BUT BUT BUT, now with the influx of higher salaried foreign workers (professionals/businessmen, etc), this same couple suddenly becomes top 30% only and no longer should be able to afford a PC.
Such are hard truths that the government find it very very difficult to tell this couple in their face. How to say ? "Sorry Sir, your social Echeleon has been demoted from top 20% to top 30%, class B to class C!"
I hope our yowetan is not one of these, else quite sad.
DKSG
ah tan will say he is... but he can afford a condo just that he aim for the best and not settle for any less.
phantom_opera
08-04-13, 15:05
Something which many people also dont know.
Salaries are catching up with HDB prices.
THe catch here is that salaries of of some people (eg locals) has been going up very slowly compared to HDB prices. BUT BUT BUT, if we take a look at average salaries including those PRs, then they are moving quite in line with prices.
This is because we keep bringing in people at the higher income bracket.
In the past maybe a regular graduate couple is ranked top 20% of the country, and should be able to afford a decent PC. BUT BUT BUT, now with the influx of higher salaried foreign workers (professionals/businessmen, etc), this same couple suddenly becomes top 30% only and no longer should be able to afford a PC.
Such are hard truths that the government find it very very difficult to tell this couple in their face. How to say ? "Sorry Sir, your social Echeleon has been demoted from top 20% to top 30%, class B to class C!"
I hope our yowetan is not one of these, else quite sad.
DKSG
We have property meritocracy ;)
The transition from using cheap labour to curbing foreign workers to attain higher productivity will be a painful one. Initially, costs will increase due to the transition. It will be a long term process to see results.
Why are u finding the hardest solution to solve a problem?. Come 2015 when asian economy community implemented, there will be open door for labour. Income gap will not closing any time soon. It will be widening even more. Sg gov want true blue singaporeans to buy property if they can afford it, especially the first timers.
In the future, foreigner boss will want to hire a cheaper foreigner workers to server foreigner customers. Singaporeans are in real danger being pushed out. That's why now singaporeans are given every opportunities to buy property. At least be a landlord in your own country.
phantom_opera
08-04-13, 15:06
wah... i like.
4-5% asset price appreciation + 3-4% rental yield... u get 7-9% unleverage yield... and more than 10% after leveraging.
very attractive... buy more ppty!
that's why ABSD will hold u down, it is like a pat on the shoulder by the garmen: "cool down brothers"
that's why ABSD will hold u down, it is like a pat on the shoulder by the garmen: "cool down brothers"
ABSD wun hold u down; it only deter u temporary :tongue2:
I somehow find the whole thing about productivity sounds very strange, it should come from corporate by natural market forces, I never understood why the government is involved here, do they seriously think they know the industry better than the company manager? What government should do is simply tax less and refund more to encourage businesses, instead of creating dozens of schemes aiming at productivity gains which SMEs never been able to comb though thoroughly.
ABSD wun hold u down; it only deter u temporary :tongue2:
it is holding me down...
it is holding me down...
it is holding ah tan down as well, i believe.
it is holding me down...
when the right project with the right price comes along, u will buy one ... cos money nids to park somewhere :hornybastard:
The government is dead serious in trying to contain inflation. The two major components which largely affect inflation are transportation and housing (rental). We have seen what MAS did to the transportation segment (recent tweets to control COE prices). Housing has always been in the radar and the government will spare no effort to bring down the prices of housing. This is the only way to tame inflation.
Car prices are still pretty lofty...
when the right project with the right price comes along, u will buy one ... cos money nids to park somewhere :hornybastard:
10% absd for $1m ppty will mean $100k more... a lot lehh.... need to rent out 24 months for free and donate to govt.
10% absd for $1m ppty will mean $100k more... a lot lehh.... need to rent out 24 months for free and donate to govt.
well, isnt rent out 24 mths for free has the same impact with wait a few yrs, since the opportunity cost of waiting will exceed this 10% more once u wait for > 2 yr?
well, isnt rent out 24 mths for free has the same impact with wait a few yrs, since the opportunity cost of waiting will exceed this 10% more once u wait for > 2 yr?
not many will share your argument here. if so, then cm7 would have failed terribly.
there are other investment class of assets to go for... not necessarily on ppty only.
not many will share your argument here. if so, then cm7 would have failed terribly.
there are other investment class of assets to go for... not necessarily on ppty only.
it is true tat tat ppty is not the main source of investment avenue, but I feel that ppty is the least risky of all others having similar or lower returns.
With Mar sales gg above 2000 units, how effective is cm7?
bearing in mind tat there r still tonnes n tonnes of filthy rich ppl around, cm will only affect mid class singaporeans nia.
the govt can come up with more cm, but r they really effective? if it is in the 1st place, we wun even be seeing a cm4.
it is true tat tat ppty is not the main source of investment avenue, but I feel that ppty is the least risky of all others having similar or lower returns.
With Mar sales gg above 2000 units, how effective is cm7?
bearing in mind tat there r still tonnes n tonnes of filthy rich ppl around, cm will only affect mid class singaporeans nia.
the govt can come up with more cm, but r they really effective? if it is in the 1st place, we wun even be seeing a cm4.
CM is effective. Office Boy certainly knows.
There are many many people in my office got knocked out after CMx.
They are effectively locked out of the property investment market.
So CM is effectively in curbing demand.
I am very sure that without CM, some of my office people would have bought another 2-3 properties.
And with that, prices would have shot up at least 5% every quarter!
DKSG
CM is effective. Office Boy certainly knows.
There are many many people in my office got knocked out after CMx.
They are effectively locked out of the property investment market.
So CM is effectively in curbing demand.
I am very sure that without CM, some of my office people would have bought another 2-3 properties.
And with that, prices would have shot up at least 5% every quarter!
DKSG
hmmm ... since according to office boy the cm r effective, we wun be seeing cm8 liao hor :tongue3:
btw, the "many many people in yr office" tat were knocked out dun even amount to 1% of the crowd tat the govt hopes to :axekiller:
Why are u finding the hardest solution to solve a problem?. Come 2015 when asian economy community implemented, there will be open door for labour. Income gap will not closing any time soon. It will be widening even more. Sg gov want true blue singaporeans to buy property if they can afford it, especially the first timers.
In the future, foreigner boss will want to hire a cheaper foreigner workers to server foreigner customers. Singaporeans are in real danger being pushed out. That's why now singaporeans are given every opportunities to buy property. At least be a landlord in your own country.
The AEC is about creating a single economic power in the same light as the EU (less the single currency) with greater negotiation power with the US, China, Japan and the EC. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand are the real beneficiaries of this AEC for their own reasons. It is about free flow of goods, services and skill labour across the member countries. Each member country will still retain its competenancy in the way of doing business to maintain their competitive edge as a group.
We can be pround that the car made in Indonesia now will be marketed as the car made in AEC regardless of whether the car is design in Singapore, assemble in Indonesia with parts from all over member states. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand will aspire to be the like of Germany under EC.
hmmm ... since according to office boy the cm r effective, we wun be seeing cm8 liao hor :tongue3:
btw, the "many many people in yr office" tat were knocked out dun even amount to 1% of the crowd tat the govt hopes to :axekiller:
My office is a miniture property market la.
If 65% of my office property-buying population is affected, that means in Singapore, 65% of the people who can buy property at 20% downpayment now cannot buy coz of the CMs.
DKSG
My office is a miniture property market la.
If 65% of my office property-buying population is affected, that means in Singapore, 65% of the people who can buy property at 20% downpayment now cannot buy coz of the CMs.
DKSG
hey, tats a bad sampling size leh :tsk-tsk:
50% of my family members has bought a ppty within the last 6 mth. Does tat signal tat every spore household hv strong ppty purchasing power? :banghead:
to be honest, those who can afford r not concerned wif whether the new ruling is 20% or 30% downpayment la ...
for those super rich, u wan them to pay 100% at 1 shot they oso can de, juz tat they will still 意思意思 take up a short loan else IRAS will come after them soon :scared-5:
The AEC is about creating a single economic power in the same light as the EU (less the single currency) with greater negotiation power with the US, China, Japan and the EC. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand are the real beneficiaries of this AEC for their own reasons. It is about free flow of goods, services and skill labour across the member countries. Each member country will still retain its competenancy in the way of doing business to maintain their competitive edge as a group.
We can be pround that the car made in Indonesia now will be marketed as the car made in AEC regardless of whether the car is design in Singapore, assemble in Indonesia with parts from all over member states. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand will aspire to be the like of Germany under EC.
In short, bad for wages, good for property price.
hey, tats a bad sampling size leh :tsk-tsk:
50% of my family members has bought a ppty within the last 6 mth. Does tat signal tat every spore household hv strong ppty purchasing power? :banghead:
to be honest, those who can afford r not concerned wif whether the new ruling is 20% or 30% downpayment la ...
for those super rich, u wan them to pay 100% at 1 shot they oso can de, juz tat they will still 意思意思 take up a short loan else IRAS will come after them soon :scared-5:
Your family got 5 persons ? My company got more than 1,000 people and I know at least 300 of them who are on property acquisition mode before the CMs. Now there are less than 100 of them still in the "can buy" category.
My numbers are statistically defensible la!
That does not include my colleagues from other countries who have been eyeing a property here for a long time! Indonesians, Australians, Hong Kongers, Chinese, Malaysians, etc ...
HK people are very very keen to buy here. They love FH properties in Sg.
DKSG
hey, tats a bad sampling size leh :tsk-tsk:
50% of my family members has bought a ppty within the last 6 mth. Does tat signal tat every spore household hv strong ppty purchasing power? :banghead:
to be honest, those who can afford r not concerned wif whether the new ruling is 20% or 30% downpayment la ...
for those super rich, u wan them to pay 100% at 1 shot they oso can de, juz tat they will still 意思意思 take up a short loan else IRAS will come after them soon :scared-5:
Do your 50% of family members need to pay absd? how many % absd respectively? all of them paid 10% absd?
The AEC is about creating a single economic power in the same light as the EU (less the single currency) with greater negotiation power with the US, China, Japan and the EC. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand are the real beneficiaries of this AEC for their own reasons. It is about free flow of goods, services and skill labour across the member countries. Each member country will still retain its competenancy in the way of doing business to maintain their competitive edge as a group.
We can be pround that the car made in Indonesia now will be marketed as the car made in AEC regardless of whether the car is design in Singapore, assemble in Indonesia with parts from all over member states. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand will aspire to be the like of Germany under EC.
In short, bad for wages, good for property price.
It is too simplistic to make such suggestion.
The AEC grouping will allow more companies from countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand to set up manufacturing facilities in cheaper labour countries such as Vietnam and Myanmar when the standard of quality, labour relations, etc etc are now under AEC's standards. This scenario means that demand for quality housing will be greatly enhance in countries like Vietnam and Myanmar.
Country like Singapore will contiue to concentrate on higher level activities such as R&D and international marketing for their cheaper products now made in AEC.
What AEC tries to avoid is the single currency and the interdependence that the EC is now suffering. AEC will evolutes by itself as a union of unity without the burden of interdependency. However, it is unlikey to achieve the 2015 target as history has shown. Many Singapore companies prefers to invest in Iskandar instead of waiting for formation of AEC. It is still unknown and untested.
Your family got 5 persons ? My company got more than 1,000 people and I know at least 300 of them who are on property acquisition mode before the CMs. Now there are less than 100 of them still in the "can buy" category.
My numbers are statistically defensible la!
wa piang eh! 300 potential buyers nia said until so representative :doh:
Do your 50% of family members need to pay absd? how many % absd respectively? all of them paid 10% absd?
not all la, oni abt 1/3 of my family members pay the 7% absd cos it is bought under diff names rather den 1 person buy multiple units.
last time Khaw ever said ABSD is temporal. Else can oso wait till he remove ABSD den u all enter the market again. I feel earliest could be 2014 or 2015 when too much supply flooded the market.
not all la, oni abt 1/3 of my family members pay the 7% absd cos it is bought under diff names rather den 1 person buy multiple units.
last time Khaw ever said ABSD is temporal. Else can oso wait till he remove ABSD den u all enter the market again. I feel earliest could be 2014 or 2015 when too much supply flooded the market.
2/3 did not need to pay absd, then of course still attractive for them to buy lah... now u ask how many of your 1/3 who paid 7% absd if they will buy another one if they now need to pay 10% absd and donate 2 years rental to govt. This is the point me and probably Office Boy is trying to put across.
wa piang eh! 300 potential buyers nia said until so representative :doh:
analysis with samples of 300 would be within 4.7% at the 90% confidence level.
analysis with samples of 300 would be within 4.7% at the 90% confidence level.
Thanks! Ilikeu. hahaaa!
Actually no need to worry about my samples, March sales results will be out in a few days' time. Why not everyone make reference to that to draw your conclusions.
Market has picked up after the Jan CMs. More and more younger buyers are starting to buy with the help of their parents (or parents shalf it down the youngers' pocket).
Also, more and more people are paying the ABSD. For fear that the next round of increase in ABSD will be beyond their ability to pay.
So, peace peace everyone, just sit back, relax and watch how the multi-billion dollar tide is crashing onto our shores ...
DKSG
Thanks! Ilikeu. hahaaa!
Actually no need to worry about my samples, March sales results will be out in a few days' time. Why not everyone make reference to that to draw your conclusions.
Market has picked up after the Jan CMs. More and more younger buyers are starting to buy with the help of their parents (or parents shalf it down the youngers' pocket).
Also, more and more people are paying the ABSD. For fear that the next round of increase in ABSD will be beyond their ability to pay.
So, peace peace everyone, just sit back, relax and watch how the multi-billion dollar tide is crashing onto our shores ...
DKSG
As much as I tried to present a more balanced view of the property market; everything I saw suggests that a bubble is in the brewing and waiting to burst. Hopefully, the government has the political will to prevent one.
As much as I tried to present a more balanced view of the property market; everything I saw suggests that a bubble is in the brewing and waiting to burst. Hopefully, the government has the political will to prevent one.
I think there is no doubt that there is a bubble forming.
The question is whether this will become a gigantic bubble then burst ?
Or this bubble will form the basis of the market foundation in the next decade.
Usually after a period of price escalation, there are 2 outcomes. One is market suddently realised that they have been paying stupidly high prices and then start to dump the properties they hold. OR the second outcome is people realised that this is the kind of prices going forward and the demand that has been pushed back by the many CMs will start coming back to form the next wave.
Without any Black Swan events, I think outcome number 2 will prevail.
More and more MTBs will realise that the day when prices will drop 20% is NOT going to come by anytime soon. And when it comes, market may have been more than 20% up from now.
DKSG
Thanks! Ilikeu. hahaaa!
Actually no need to worry about my samples, March sales results will be out in a few days' time. Why not everyone make reference to that to draw your conclusions.
Market has picked up after the Jan CMs. More and more younger buyers are starting to buy with the help of their parents (or parents shalf it down the youngers' pocket).
Also, more and more people are paying the ABSD. For fear that the next round of increase in ABSD will be beyond their ability to pay.
So, peace peace everyone, just sit back, relax and watch how the multi-billion dollar tide is crashing onto our shores ...
DKSG
samplings are good, that's where we listen and make our own conclusion. reading views in forum is also a form of sampling, that's why we are here... and i'm sure there is less than 300 members here actively contributing their views on a regular basis, but we are still here.
2/3 did not need to pay absd, then of course still attractive for them to buy lah... now u ask how many of your 1/3 who paid 7% absd if they will buy another one if they now need to pay 10% absd and donate 2 years rental to govt. This is the point me and probably Office Boy is trying to put across.
will still cont'd to buy as long as we find the price attractive. But like I say, we wun hit the 10% ABSd cos dun nid to buy 3 or more under the same person's name.
u oso hv to weigh the donation of 2 yrs rental to govt against inability to buy in future if cm8 etc sets in.
As much as I tried to present a more balanced view of the property market; everything I saw suggests that a bubble is in the brewing and waiting to burst. Hopefully, the government has the political will to prevent one.
with 6.9mil population in mind, supply will always be less den demand. so how do one expect the bubble to burst? Most likely ppty $ will climb to a new height.
will still cont'd to buy as long as we find the price attractive. But like I say, we wun hit the 10% ABSd cos dun nid to buy 3 or more under the same person's name.
u oso hv to weigh the donation of 2 yrs rental to govt against inability to buy in future if cm8 etc sets in.
May i ask your family members comprises of?
with 6.9mil population in mind, supply will always be less den demand. so how do one expect the bubble to burst? Most likely ppty $ will climb to a new height.
When N. Korea start a war.... stock market plunges 70% and everything turns negative.
More and more MTBs will realise that the day when prices will drop 20% is NOT going to come by anytime soon. And when it comes, market may have been more than 20% up from now.
DKSG
Assume prices cont'd to rise moderately till 2015 where there is a sudden over supply. Then prices correct say 5% Will corrected prices in 2015 be lower than now? I doubt so, unless the magnitude of the correction is significant. But in order for such to happen, u nid some external shocks. CM is still not so potent yet :D
As much as I tried to present a more balanced view of the property market; everything I saw suggests that a bubble is in the brewing and waiting to burst. Hopefully, the government has the political will to prevent one.
Actually I understand your point of view. How can a high property price be justified? When purchasing power is not growing.
When N. Korea start a war.... stock market plunges 70% and everything turns negative.
to be honest, if tat day happen, do u tink u will still dare to invest? One might hv problem getting a loan.
Be it whether there is ABSD or not, one shd only buy when he has the holding power in case crisis arise.
May i ask your family members comprises of?
human beings, working adults.
to be honest, if tat day happen, do u tink u will still dare to invest? One might hv problem getting a loan.
there will be people who will go in, those who shared the view of Mr. Warren Buffett: “Be fearful when everyone is greedy. Be greedy when everyone is fearful (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/17/news/economy/buffett_op_ed/?postversion=2008101708)“
human beings, working adults.
husband, wife, aunty, uncle, nephew? how old are your children now, started working to have an income to get a private housing loan?
with 6.9mil population in mind, supply will always be less den demand. so how do one expect the bubble to burst? Most likely ppty $ will climb to a new height.
Too many property agents are singing the same tune and that is one reason why the bubble is brewing.
Strangely, no property agent is talking about the 700,000 new units to house them and to build first before they land here.
Too many property agents are singing the same tune and that is one reason why the bubble is brewing.
Strangely, no property agent is talking about the 700,000 new units to house them and to build first before they land here.
too many? i say all property agents are singing the same tune. lol.
Too many property agents are singing the same tune and that is one reason why the bubble is brewing.
Strangely, no property agent is talking about the 700,000 new units to house them and to build first before they land here.
Had the agents not blow the bubble all these years, how to get buyers to fund the $700k units?
Not only agents are singing this tune, some people do so as well. That's because sentiment is the key deciding factor. People often come to conclusion first, and then find supporting evidences.
Whether one thinks price goes up or down, supporting evidences can be easily found.
The way I see it is, sentiment has been hurt to a certain extent, but seems still slightly positive at the moment.
Too many property agents are singing the same tune and that is one reason why the bubble is brewing.
Strangely, no property agent is talking about the 700,000 new units to house them and to build first before they land here.
I think there is no doubt that there is a bubble forming.
The question is whether this will become a gigantic bubble then burst ?
Or this bubble will form the basis of the market foundation in the next decade.
Usually after a period of price escalation, there are 2 outcomes. One is market suddently realised that they have been paying stupidly high prices and then start to dump the properties they hold. OR the second outcome is people realised that this is the kind of prices going forward and the demand that has been pushed back by the many CMs will start coming back to form the next wave.
Without any Black Swan events, I think outcome number 2 will prevail.
More and more MTBs will realise that the day when prices will drop 20% is NOT going to come by anytime soon. And when it comes, market may have been more than 20% up from now.
DKSG
Agreed with most of your points. It takes a crisis or a sudden change in operating condition to burst the bubble.
From an economic perspective, the price is not sustainable given the national income. A bubble is awaiting to burst.
Actually I understand your point of view. How can a high property price be justified? When purchasing power is not growing.
Property buyers of Singapore property - their purchase power has increased significantly with the entrance of foreigners from China, India, Europe, etc.
So while local lament that prices is not in line with property prices, property prices here are in line with the enlarged population/investors based.
This is the hard truth, for those who feel that property prices is beyond their income levels, it means they have been left behind by the market - just like some people in my office lor! Totally MTB-ed. Now no chance to buy anymore.
But how can government tell the mass population this truth ? It is too hurtful. And also they are the ones allowing these "rich foreigners" to come in and buy.
The price of progress - which we cannot do without.
DKSG
there will be people who will go in, those who shared the view of Mr. Warren Buffett: “Be fearful when everyone is greedy. Be greedy when everyone is fearful (http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/17/news/economy/buffett_op_ed/?postversion=2008101708)“
tis is not easy. when stock market crash, I dun dare to enter cos scare tat it will drop further.
husband, wife, aunty, uncle, nephew? how old are your children now, started working to have an income to get a private housing loan?
nope, is my siblings. We r not young adults :o
Regulators
09-04-13, 15:22
everyone is bracing for the next boom due to the white paper and you still day dreaming:doh:
Hi all...the price has just gone too far and much since 2008/2009. I think there should be a correction or a crash to normalize the ever-increasing psf these years. Could anyone share his/her thoughts that if correction would be imminent and will be beneficial to have everything reset to base?
tis is not easy. when stock market crash, I dun dare to enter cos scare tat it will drop further.
Very easy to test. Many European stocks still near record low - I've been buying all year. One European bank stock i bought dropped almost by half before recovering. Another Telco stock I bought, historical PE of 5 and dividend yield of 15%. Price still dropping..
Bro, you dare to enter?
:D
Bottomline is people like to buy at the top of the market. :D
Too many property agents are singing the same tune and that is one reason why the bubble is brewing.
Strangely, no property agent is talking about the 700,000 new units to house them and to build first before they land here.
cos it's all abt sentiments. Else, wat makes u feel that a new stock can soar 20%-50% more on IPO?
I noe that sg ppty are srsly over-valued. But the fact tat an ever increasing population keeps the sentiment positive. Many ppl r buying ppty for their children as well, cos they feel that their children will not be able to afford it in the future.
Whether the bubble will burst or not, really hard to say.
But given a choice, I will rather it will burst so tat I can pick up more bargains.
As for those ppty tat I hv bought previously at higher $, I wun lose out as long as I have the holding power.
Property buyers of Singapore property - their purchase power has increased significantly with the entrance of foreigners from China, India, Europe, etc.
So while local lament that prices is not in line with property prices, property prices here are in line with the enlarged population/investors based.
This is the hard truth, for those who feel that property prices is beyond their income levels, it means they have been left behind by the market - just like some people in my office lor! Totally MTB-ed. Now no chance to buy anymore.
But how can government tell the mass population this truth ? It is too hurtful. And also they are the ones allowing these "rich foreigners" to come in and buy.
The price of progress - which we cannot do without.
DKSG
U speak my mind
Very easy to test. Many European stocks still near record low - I've been buying all year. One European bank stock i bought dropped almost by half before recovering. Another Telco stock I bought, historical PE of 5 and dividend yield of 15%. Price still dropping..
Bro, you dare to enter?
:D
Bottomline is people like to buy at the top of the market. :D
haha, I tot I hv alrdy said I dun dare to enter :tongue3:
everyone is bracing for the next boom due to the white paper and you still day dreaming:doh:
u noe as per last year, I am still waiting for the Big Crash so that I can show hand :banana: but ever since the White Paper has been passed thr, I hv given up waiting n start buying.
fyi, I hv waited for > 5 yrs liao n I regretted seeing the $ soars :banghead:
cos it's all abt sentiments. Else, wat makes u feel that a new stock can soar 20%-50% more on IPO?
I noe that sg ppty are srsly over-valued. But the fact tat an ever increasing population keeps the sentiment positive. Many ppl r buying ppty for their children as well, cos they feel that their children will not be able to afford it in the future.
Whether the bubble will burst or not, really hard to say.
But given a choice, I will rather it will burst so tat I can pick up more bargains.
As for those ppty tat I hv bought previously at higher $, I wun lose out as long as I have the holding power.
It was the same scenario as in 1997.
When demand is not real or when the market is supported by induced demand, it is a bubble.
tis is not easy. when stock market crash, I dun dare to enter cos scare tat it will drop further.
Yes, it takes guts. I placed my bet in stock market (instead of ppty) in 2008/09 when sti is down to 1600/1700.
nope, is my siblings. We r not young adults :o
It takes a real close knit family ties to be willing to put in money on another siblings' name to avoid the absd. If it is own children, sure, no problem for parents to give money to buy under children name. For me, I wouldn't put a 20% or 40% downpayment and use my brother or sister name to avoid the 10% absd.
phantom_opera
09-04-13, 15:38
Yes, it takes guts. I placed my bet in stock market (instead of ppty) in 2008/09 when sti is down to 1600/1700.
u were lucky, if you bet on US banks you will be dead meat,
60-> 30 -> 20 -> 10->5 -> 4 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1
Citi
It was the same scenario during 1997.
When demand is not real or when induced demand is supporting the market, it is a bubble.
demand is definitely not real for now and the next few years. but do note tat our population is gonna increase by abt 1mil in the future. Hence these few hundred thousands of excess supply in 2014 - 2016 is juz temporaral, isnt it?
n let me ask u. If such future demand is not real, y is our govt speeding up on building more n more housing?
Whether the bubble will burst or not, really hard to say.
But given a choice, I will rather it will burst so tat I can pick up more bargains.
As for those ppty tat I hv bought previously at higher $, I wun lose out as long as I have the holding power.
When stock market crash, u said u dun have guts to enter coz it may fall further. But when or if ppty bubble burst, u dare to go in?
demand is definitely not real for now and the next few years. but do note tat our population is gonna increase by abt 1mil in the future. Hence these few hundred thousands of excess supply in 2014 - 2016 is juz temporaral, isnt it?
n let me ask u. If such future demand is not real, y is our govt speeding up on building more n more housing?
The government is managing the supply and demand and going forward to build first before the demand.
u were lucky, if you bet on US banks you will be dead meat,
60-> 30 -> 20 -> 10->5 -> 4 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1
Citi
0.05 -> 1.96
Osim
It takes a real close knit family ties to be willing to put in money on another siblings' name to avoid the absd. If it is own children, sure, no problem for parents to give money to buy under children name. For me, I wouldn't put a 20% or 40% downpayment and use my brother or sister name to avoid the 10% absd.
tats y lor, if cannot trust, one will ended up buying all pty under yr own name n pay ABSD gao gao :simmering:
if can trust, instead of each sibling buying a one bedder to rent, can combine resources n buy a 2 bedder but under 1 person's name nia. liddat alrdy save 3% liao :banana:
When stock market crash, u said u dun have guts to enter coz it may fall further. But when or if ppty bubble burst, u dare to go in?
ppty crash I dare to enter, stock market I will scare cos sometimes under performing coy will close shop.
but yr ppty wun close shop unless u suay suay got earthquake or bomb la :cheers1:
The government is managing the supply and demand and going forward to build first before the demand.
well, we oso mah .... we r buying to cater to the future 6.9mil pop leh :p
if one day our govt tell us, we r gg to stop at 6.9mil, den we will stop buying liao lor :ashamed1:
It was the same scenario as in 1997.
When demand is not real or when the market is supported by induced demand, it is a bubble.
I have a classic problem. I have money that doesn't earn interest, time is not on my side to wait out for the next crash, I am risk adverse to put my money on risky financial products. What do I do?
I have a classic problem. I have money that doesn't earn interest, time is not on my side to wait out for the next crash, I am risk adverse to put my money on risky financial products. What do I do?
buy government bonds
I have a classic problem. I have money that doesn't earn interest, time is not on my side to wait out for the next crash, I am risk adverse to put my money on risky financial products. What do I do?
may I ask wat is the amount tat u r looking at?
If I have 50K in the bank, perhaps ppl will tell me wait for a ppty crash. If I have 500K idling in the bank, what will ppl advise me?
buy government bonds
Singapore government bond 10-year yield at around 1.5% now, doesn't sound too attractive...
may I ask wat is the amount tat u r looking at?
If I have 50K in the bank, perhaps ppl will tell me wait for a ppty crash. If I have 500K idling in the bank, what will ppl advise me?
500K is earning 3k a year, which is 250 dollar a month
I have a classic problem. I have money that doesn't earn interest, time is not on my side to wait out for the next crash, I am risk adverse to put my money on risky financial products. What do I do?
If you are considering to invest in an inflated illiquid asset NOW, you are abviously not risk adverse.
500K is earning 3k a year, which is 250 dollar a month
oni 0.6% return? may as well put in FD still can get close to 1.5% per annum for tenure 36mths.
If you are considering to invest in an inflated illiquid asset NOW, you are abviously not risk adverse.
tat really depends on whether one is investing in ppty with a long term mindset or speculating in ppty hoping to cash out in a few years' time. If it is the latter, a ppty crash will be disastrous :2cents:
Singapore government bond 10-year yield at around 1.5% now, doesn't sound too attractive...
eh, got money don't want to buy property, risky financial products (and hence, eliminating the option of commodities), there isn't much else but bonds (since soooooo risk-averse, can't get corporate bonds)
oni 0.6% return? may as well put in FD still can get close to 1.5% per annum for tenure 36mths.
Yes, but to tie it up for 3 years, when I get it back... A cha siu bao might cost 5 dollar liao.
Yes, but to tie it up for 3 years, when I get it back... A cha siu bao might cost 5 dollar liao.
tat is why, when inflation more than triple our bank interest revenue, ppty is nevertheless the most profitable n secured way to park yr resources.
Yes, but to tie it up for 3 years, when I get it back... A cha siu bao might cost 5 dollar liao.
then go for corporate bonds lah - banks, airlines
then go for corporate bonds lah - banks, airlines
Which corporate that guarantee don't go bankrupt one? I will buy that corporate bond
Which corporate that guarantee don't go bankrupt one? I will buy that corporate bond
try OCBC and keppel
try OCBC and keppel
U think these companies bond can out performed the condo that I bought 2 years ago at 950 per sqft near kembangan mrt? Now value maybe at 1300 per sqft.
U think these companies bond can out performed the condo that I bought 2 years ago at 950 per sqft near kembangan mrt? Now value maybe at 1300 per sqft.
the big ppty crash nid to drop 30% b4 u see a paper loss :scared-2:
U think these companies bond can out performed the condo that I bought 2 years ago at 950 per sqft near kembangan mrt? Now value maybe at 1300 per sqft.
eh, u said no to properties, no to risky financial products, then what else???
phantom_opera
09-04-13, 16:49
If you are considering to invest in an inflated illiquid asset NOW, you are abviously not risk adverse.
why need to be risk adverse .. no risk no gain :p
u noe as per last year, I am still waiting for the Big Crash so that I can show hand :banana: but ever since the White Paper has been passed thr, I hv given up waiting n start buying.
fyi, I hv waited for > 5 yrs liao n I regretted seeing the $ soars :banghead:
shanke hands. I had hoped that the property market would crash in 2013. Seems it is not true.
ten years ago, when I was yong, my family income is way above a XX percentage. With all these years salary increment, i notice that my family income has dropped to the border line of this percentage line.
ten years ago, I thought my cash was not enough to buy a PC. today, I notice my accumulated cash over these years can barely pay the first 20% + ABSD.
Thanks! Ilikeu. hahaaa!
Actually no need to worry about my samples, March sales results will be out in a few days' time. Why not everyone make reference to that to draw your conclusions.
Market has picked up after the Jan CMs. More and more younger buyers are starting to buy with the help of their parents (or parents shalf it down the youngers' pocket).
Also, more and more people are paying the ABSD. For fear that the next round of increase in ABSD will be beyond their ability to pay.
So, peace peace everyone, just sit back, relax and watch how the multi-billion dollar tide is crashing onto our shores ...
DKSG
office boy very smart...;):cheers1:
shanke hands. I had hoped that the property market would crash in 2013. Seems it is not true.
ten years ago, when I was yong, my family income is way above a XX percentage. With all these years salary increment, i notice that my family income has dropped to the border line of this percentage line.
ten years ago, I thought my cash was not enough to buy a PC. today, I notice my accumulated cash over these years can barely pay the first 20% + ABSD.
No one can predict the crash, as property will not crash by itself unless there's a external catalyst.
shanke hands. I had hoped that the property market would crash in 2013. Seems it is not true.
ten years ago, when I was yong, my family income is way above a XX percentage. With all these years salary increment, i notice that my family income has dropped to the border line of this percentage line.
ten years ago, I thought my cash was not enough to buy a PC. today, I notice my accumulated cash over these years can barely pay the first 20% + ABSD.
abt 8yrs ago we r viewing terrace houses abt S$1mil but we were scared to commit for fear of a ppty crash. Over the years ppty prices escalated so much tat in the end we feel that doing nothing for fear of a crash had made us lost many opportunities to become millionairs.
I tink we do not nid to be too fearful of a crash. Ppty is an appreciating assets. Even if it shd crash, I believe the magnitude is at most 5-10%. U wan it to crash by 50%, I tink one can stop dreaming.
why need to be risk adverse .. no risk no gain :p
wasn't me that set the boundaries
abt 8yrs ago we r viewing terrace houses abt S$1mil but we were scared to commit for fear of a ppty crash. Over the years ppty prices escalated so much tat in the end we feel that doing nothing for fear of a crash had made us lost many opportunities to become millionairs.
I tink we do not nid to be too fearful of a crash. Ppty is an appreciating assets. Even if it shd crash, I believe the magnitude is at most 5-10%. U wan it to crash by 50%, I tink one can stop dreaming.
Like I said, people buy when the price is high and then sell when the price falls.
This is how the developers and super rich earn money.
Ask yourself, are the super rich buying?
I remembered Simon Cheong bought 6 Pierce Rd (off holland road) GCBs for about 6 million each. $365 psf.
Is Simon Cheong buying now?? :D
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/RealEdge/message/760
Published January 20, 2006
Simon Cheong buys 6 bungalows for $35m
Price for Peirce Rd properties works out to an average of $365 psf
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
(SINGAPORE) Entities controlled by Simon Cheong of SC Global Developments have bought six Good Class Bungalows (GCBs) along Peirce Road for a total of $35 million, sources say.
Mr Cheong: Could keep one or more of the six bungalows for himself and his family and sell the rest, suggest market watchers
The price works out to an average of $365 per square foot based on the freehold site's total land area of 95,839 sq ft.
The six bungalows, completed about five years ago, were designed by renowned architect Ettore Sottsass, a grandee of late 20th century Italian designer and the founder of the early 1980s Memphis Collective architectural movement. Jones Lang LaSalle brokered the deal.
haha, this time I will hold for 20 years if there is a crash in the near future.
I
haha, this time I will hold for 20 years if there is a crash in the near future.
I
You very generous, donate to bank profits and government. :D
You very generous, donate to bank profits and government. :D
donated for many years already, but they do not appreciate.
Like I said, people buy when the price is high and then sell when the price falls.
This is how the developers and super rich earn money.
Ask yourself, are the super rich buying?
I remembered Simon Cheong bought 6 Pierce Rd (off holland road) GCBs for about 6 million each. $365 psf.
Is Simon Cheong buying now?? :D
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/RealEdge/message/760
I think you brought up a very good point.
Watching developers' buying of land and landbanking is a very important barometer ...
Are developers buying now ?
I think they are eyeing land parcels more aggressive now than 12 months ago. We can watch how the next few land sales or enbloc is going to pan out.
My guess is ... with their landbank shrinking, buying momentum going strong, bids for land with also show a steady increase.
Simon Cheong is NOT the barometer for developers. He is just niche player caught in the middle of some cross fire. But I believe he will come out fine and maybe with tons of profits too!
DKSG
office boy very smart...;):cheers1:
Thank you!!!
If you go down to recent showflats like D'Nest, Mon Jervios, Jade Resi, RME, Hillion, and Oxley Edge, you will certainly know the buying momentum.
DKSG
phantom_opera
09-04-13, 18:12
the market sentiment has totally changed since the last US employment report + aggression of QE-mad-man in Japan ...... in fact printing of Yen in Japan means interest in US could even fall further due to carry trades + fading of employment hope
the market sentiment has totally changed since the last US employment report + aggression of QE-mad-man in Japan ...... in fact printing of Yen in Japan means interest in US could even fall further due to carry trades + fading of employment hope
I also cannot imagine all these money crashing onto our shores ...
Its like you look out from East Coast Park and you see boxes and boxes of USD, Yen, etc floating onto our shores looking for things to buy.
DKSG
phantom_opera
09-04-13, 18:16
I also cannot imagine all these money crashing onto our shores ...
Its like you look out from East Coast Park and you see boxes and boxes of USD, Yen, etc floating onto our shores looking for things to buy.
DKSG
cheap money keeps falling on my head lol, quotes from FT:
Indonesia borrows $3bn at record low cost
US investors snap up 10- and 30-year dollar bonds
Japan investors seek yield abroad
US and eurozone bond markets see influx
cheap money keeps falling on my head lol, quotes from FT:
Indonesia borrows $3bn at record low cost
US investors snap up 10- and 30-year dollar bonds
Japan investors seek yield abroad
US and eurozone bond markets see influx
Thats why it is very scary ... especially for those who MTBed.
Every quarter, if you go back to see the same resale condo, there is a chance price went up in the last 2 years!
DKSG
When N. Korea start a war.... stock market plunges 70% and everything turns negative.
Unless it's nuke which is also very unlikely. The situation may be at worst similar to the 60s&70s Cuban, Iran hostage, Vietnam etc. this time round china may also not be at DPRK side. Young Kim also surrounded by so many hardliners, also LL cannot do anything until they expire. Young Kim travelled aboard and has Internet to see the world. Why fight a all die together war? Make sense. :confused:
Unless it's nuke which is also very unlikely. The situation may be at worst similar to the 60s&70s Cuban, Iran hostage, Vietnam etc. this time round china may also not be at DPRK side. Young Kim also surrounded by so many hardliners, also LL cannot do anything until they expire. Young Kim travelled aboard and has Internet to see the world. Why fight a all die together war? Make sense. :confused:
If you think about it, North Korea is the only country that won't be affected if the money bubble collapses. In fact, they will benefit from cheaper oil and resources. The Chinese communist are earning billions while their counterparts in North Korea must settle for peanuts.
And they don't need to start a nuclear war, just do a ballistic nuclear missile test over the seas off Fukushima. Fukushima already full of radiation of ah and out of bounds to public.
Why you ask is Simon buying? Simon already owning so many units - e.g. The Marc, Hilltops etc.
You should ask: Is Simon selling his properties he held at today's asking cheap price?
I think the answer is obvious, if you want to buy cheap, then he ask you to fly kite! (because if he sell at today's cheap price that most people are willing to pay, he can't replenish at such cheap price!). :doh:
Like I said, people buy when the price is high and then sell when the price falls.
This is how the developers and super rich earn money.
Ask yourself, are the super rich buying?
I remembered Simon Cheong bought 6 Pierce Rd (off holland road) GCBs for about 6 million each. $365 psf.
Is Simon Cheong buying now?? :D
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/RealEdge/message/760
He won't sell unless he can't afford the cost of carry.
He won't sell unless he can't afford the cost of carry.
Do you think he cant afford to carry ?
DKSG
I think the new sales will hit 3,000 for March.
I am just wondering when this wave will stop. Really amazed got so many rich people buying at current record prices.
Why you ask is Simon buying? Simon already owning so many units - e.g. The Marc, Hilltops etc.
You should ask: Is Simon selling his properties he held at today's asking cheap price?
I think the answer is obvious, if you want to buy cheap, then he ask you to fly kite! (because if he sell at today's cheap price that most people are willing to pay, he can't replenish at such cheap price!). :doh:
Simon got as many properties as LKS's Cheung Kong? He may not even reach it even if he multiplies his property holdings by 100.
I think the new sales will hit 3,000 for March.
I am just wondering when this wave will stop. Really amazed got so many rich people buying at current record prices.
average i think every 5 years can buy one condo. let's say bonus 5 months x $15k (combined income) x 5 years = $375k
Add on monthly savings, easily >$400k cash savings.
Add on CPF.... woohoo!
less than 5 years can dump in the deposit for MM or 2 bedder.
Add on those who huat big big when they buy into the stock in 2008/09... easily more than double.
So what are you trying to say?
Are you saying LKS's Cheung Kong got many properties in Singapore and now they are selling cheap? How come I don't know they selling many properties in Singapore cheap cheap? Care to share what properties are they selling in Singapore hah? :confused:
Simon got as many properties as LKS's Cheung Kong? He may not even reach it even if he multiplies his property holdings by 100.
average i think every 5 years can buy one condo. let's say bonus 5 months x $15k (combined income) x 5 years = $375k
Add on monthly savings, easily >$400k cash savings.
Add on CPF.... woohoo!
less than 5 years can dump in the deposit for MM or 2 bedder.
Add on those who huat big big when they buy into the stock in 2008/09... easily more than double.
You forgot to mention that 5 years later MM will be 20% more than now.
Also, by the second third property, deposit becomes 60%.
DKSG
You forgot to mention that 5 years later MM will be 20% more than now.
Also, by the second third property, deposit becomes 60%.
DKSG
Possible. 5 years later you can be promoted twice and your salary up more than 30%
I see gradually up in property prices. All new development 2 bedders regardless of ulu location will cross $1000psf after TOP.
Do you think he cant afford to carry ?
DKSG
that's my point, the carry is nothing to him.
I think you brought up a very good point.
Watching developers' buying of land and landbanking is a very important barometer ...
Are developers buying now ?
I think they are eyeing land parcels more aggressive now than 12 months ago. We can watch how the next few land sales or enbloc is going to pan out.
My guess is ... with their landbank shrinking, buying momentum going strong, bids for land with also show a steady increase.
DKSG
precisely.
juz look at the recent bidding $ from GLS. The plot of land at Jurong West (abt 5-10mins to Lakeside mrt) is sold at a high price of $7010psm and the plot of land at AMK ave 2 (far from mrt) is sold at a high price of $8502psm.
For comparision, the plot of land tat Senette residences is currently resting on is sold for only $6762psm.
Tell me, with rising land & building cost, how is the $ of ppty gg to come down? Over supply at the most can maintain the current prices, hard to bring it down. :2cents:
is buying from GLS landbanking?
they have 5 years to sell all the projects.
can that even be called landbanking?
if u are a property developer and u don't have land, this will have to do.
as to whether it's landbanking; just look at my bank account - after salary deposit, spend fast fast. was monies deposited? yes, but just that the spending also lagi fast
is buying from GLS landbanking?
they have 5 years to sell all the projects.
can that even be called landbanking?
Landbanking in developers' sense means having the land to build.
Long gone are the days of CDL A, B, C, Dallia, Edelwesis, F, G condo land, and FEO FH land accumulating days.
Now if you buy land, you got a land bank to build.
No land bank, no building, also means no profits to book.
But more importantly, no land build = lose face.
DKSG
Bro DKSG, situation from the lawyer I met last nite:
1. Feb was really bad for them. They wanted to faint.
2. March recovered-she now smiling
3. Lots of proxy purchase - grandma, grandpa, bro, sis, etc..
4. Many parents buy for kids
5. Enbloc minimal still
6. Landbank for developers down - so watch out for gls. Hahaha
7. Still expect sales to be quite good.
Cheers :cheers3: :cheers3: :cheers3:
That's all for local property scene. This were her observations... Not mine. For mine, already shared in various post.
Feb was a month for people to digest and come to terms with the new CM. Them coming to terms was to buy under other family members...
Feb was a month for people to digest and come to terms with the new CM. Them coming to terms was to buy under other family members...
but has the prices stabilize with 1 - 3 % qtr to qtr?. I think that to me is a acceptable norm.
But even then, my children would be doom to HDB paradise or recycle cemetery land.
I guess those that can afford to would have bought. Those that were trigger happy also bought. Left those that har and haw and waiting for the n! of CM to normalise would still be waiting on the sideline for fearing to have buyer remorse.
In fact if we were to look at various option based on past CM event, I would imagine that the price would tank and then rebound very quickly. Just that the unit that you were eyeing at would also have been long gone.
Feb was a month for people to digest and come to terms with the new CM. Them coming to terms was to buy under other family members...
Bro, CM losing effect... The coming to terms seems shorter and shorter... Hahahaha
Bro, CM losing effect... The coming to terms seems shorter and shorter... Hahahaha
The scary thing now, funds are being set up to speculate on sg property by companies. These funds are capturing money from US, Europe and the latest is from Japan.
Some of us thinking because many big properties acquisition recently, therefore the big boys are cashing out. The truth is many of them are creating property investment funds for sg property to capture excess liquidity from the global stimulus. U will know this when u see many more big acquisitions in the coming months.
Just imagine if somebody is selling big, there must be someone else that buying big.
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