Landed will drop while other property segments continue to rise [Archive] - Condo Forum Singapore Property Review Mortgage Loan Buy Rent Sell Real Estate

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 05:32

If you really have to get a property now for own occupation,then it is safer to go for new HDB or new Executive Condo or even private condo.

Now, look at the landed prices objectively now. Many terraces in strange locations of approx 1000 sqft but rebuilt up to the max plot ratio of around 2000 over sqft .These are now asking for S$3M or more. Would buyers with budget of S$3M want to buy these, since buyers with that kind of budget are sophiscated and discerning investors? If they have S$3Million budget, they would rather build their own landed with their own design and taste on lower ratio.

"As long as you have not realised your property profits or cannot realise your property profits; THEY ARE NOT PROFITS. They are merely an illusion in your mind."
- Wise Words by BJ21T

I can also say my Nassim bungalow is worth S$100Million. But as long as there are no takers, it remains an unrealised dream. I only needs one of my neighbors to sell his at S$5 Million to sabotage me.

The underlying fear I have is this : Do we wish to have landed all owned by "New" Singaporeans instead of locally born Singaporeans eventually in the future ?

I have no issues if they go buy up all the condos or 99 years cluster TOWN houses. BUT LANDED is a Special class of property reserved for TRUE SINGAPOREANS ONLY. Singaporeans who are willing to fight for the country. Until the new ones can prove themselves, I would reserve my landed for myself and brothers here thank you.

If landed is not an important aspect of POLITICS, why do Australia, Malaysia, India, and even some states in USA restrict buying of lands ?

One suggestion I have is to allow only second generation of "New" Singaporeans to buy landed. Or if the second generation is NOT born here, they have to wait for their locally BORN grandchildren to buy it for them. KEY WORD here is locally born of this land Or better still: TO HAVE SERVED NATIONAL SERVICE IN SAF .

The thing I AM NERVOUS ABOUT IS WHEN high property prices is NOT substainable. Substainable in the perspective of LOCALLY BORN SINGAPOREAN and with regards to their financial fairness.

It must be attainable to the local Singaporean WHOM had worked hard for their SGD and be able to buy a proper landed at the level of their next upgrade in the social life/class ladder.

IF HOWEVER, the landed prices are artifically inflated due to some person(s) who HAS no concept of the value of SGD ( IMAGINE USING PURE CASH TO BUY A PROPERTY ! ), then the landed price will reach a stage BEYOND the locally born Singaporean who are climbing this social ladder.SINCE there exist this disparity gap in Wealth level and perception of value of money between the PRC and local Singaporean.

IF local Singaporean cannot afford landed, then logically these landed will eventually ended up in the hands of "NEW" Singaporean if you know what I mean. The landed will hence be passed around among this group of people ONLY.Hence creating an unfairness in the economic system.

I hope our MIW look into new companies ( Hanyu Pinyin sounding Names ) set up with the sole intention to acquire huge plot of private landed from private owners here.

Better find out who are the shareholders composition.This is very easily done by sending staff to look and record all the sign boards placed outside the reconstructing sites.

Thank You.

Shanhz

11-01-13, 07:52

thank you bro. you are one true blue SINGAPOREAN

proper-t

11-01-13, 09:19

masterkey

11-01-13, 09:53

I hope our MIW look into new companies ( Hanyu Pinyin sounding Names ) set up with the sole intention to acquire huge plot of private landed from private owners here.

Better find out who are the shareholders composition.This is very easily done by sending staff to look and record all the sign boards placed outside the reconstructing sites.

Thank You.

Foreign companies, foreign shareholders, foreign directors - any of these means the developer needs to develop and sell all within a stipulated time (reference SC Global).

Fisherman

11-01-13, 10:13

Reading the content of your post, it seems to contradict your thread title as you are of the opinion that landed prices will be driven HIGHER by new singaporeans and you are appealing to the authorities to do something about it. So aren't you in effect saying that landed will CONTINUE to rise if the authorities don't do anything about it???

Unfortunately almost all of the people in authority stay in landed themselves and given the small percentage of voters staying in landed, I seriously doubt if this will be the first on their agenda list. They have much bigger fish to fry with HDB etc. Which segment of voters do you think they will deal with first? Apart from restriction of ownership, in the entire history of our property market, have you come across any measures targetted directly at landed?

What he is actually saying is even if landed property prices continue to rise in tandem with the rest of the property market, it may only be an illusion because these have risen beyond the affordable level of Singaporeans. To sell landed at the price you desire will have to depend on newly minted Singaporeans! The major restriction of landed is ONLY SINGAPOREANS CAN BUY! Exceptions have to be separately approved by the authorities.

Ringo33

11-01-13, 10:49

A good way to track affordability is to track the rental rate of landed property.

When rate gets too low, it means there is a mismatch in the value and price.

sherlock

11-01-13, 10:58

A good way to track affordability is to track the rental rate of landed property.

When rate gets too low, it means there is a mismatch in the value and price.
And there is a mis-match

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 11:14

20 years ago,I was a GUNIANG in SAF. GUNIANG because I was fed with a silver spoon all my life. To go through SAF was like asking me to transform myself into a MAN from a GUNIANG. It was terrible, no longer was my army of maids attending around me. Then, to make it worse, my steady left me, as if she was an intentional plot by my jealous relatives.

I cried in the toilet like almost every night in Tekong.If you guys had watched Jack Neo's from "Ah Boy to Man", you will realise that the main actor is actually about your humble brother me.

However, I still went through the whole TWO AND A HALF YEARS ARMY SERVICE. And you know what pushed me to go through SAF ?

IT is my DETERMINATION TO BE A FULLY QUALIFIED SINGAPOREAN MAN so that I can inherit the Singapore bungalow and wealth from my grandfather.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 11:16

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 11:24

Reading the content of your post, it seems to contradict your thread title as you are of the opinion that landed prices will be driven HIGHER by new singaporeans and you are appealing to the authorities to do something about it. So aren't you in effect saying that landed will CONTINUE to rise if the authorities don't do anything about it???

Unfortunately almost all of the people in authority stay in landed themselves and given the small percentage of voters staying in landed, I seriously doubt if this will be the first on their agenda list. They have much bigger fish to fry with HDB etc. Which segment of voters do you think they will deal with first? Apart from restriction of ownership, in the entire history of our property market, have you come across any measures targetted directly at landed?

7 years ago, I already said in the Internet property forums that the supply of condos will not be enough.

Now Year 2013, 11th JAN 12:23pm, I am saying that there is a bubble forming in landed property here. But other Singaporean property segments will still be healthy.

THIS IS BECAUSE THE PRICE DISPARITY between landed and private CCR condos IS TOO GREAT NOW.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 11:29

7 years ago, I already said in the Internet property forums that the supply of condos will not be enough.

Now Year 2013, 11th JAN 12:23pm, I am saying that there is a bubble forming in landed property here. But other Singaporean property segments will still be healthy.

THIS IS BECAUSE THE PRICE DISPARITY between landed and private CCR condos IS TOO GREAT NOW.

This landed bubble will not be evident until like maybe 10 years later. By then, it may be too late to rectify liao. Look at Johor Authority, see how proactive they react to the recent property heating there? I think today got News on this if I not heard wrongly on radio just now.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 11:40

This landed bubble will not be evident until like maybe 10 years later. By then, it may be too late to rectify liao. Look at Johor Authority, see how proactive they react to the recent property heating there? I think today got News on this if I not heard wrongly on radio just now.

Local Singaporeans who are born here are born with business networks and friends networks here. They save from either work or businesses to climb the property ladder very much like my billionaire grandfather ( Richer than Hour Glass) :

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/blackjack21trader/Copyof14220003_zpsdee4e9a3.jpg

Along the way, some took risks and managed to stay in bungalows, while the lesser lucky ones managed to own terrace houses.

However, I am reminding you guys, this is a different ball game now. It is not enough to be just Singaporean to own landed. I believe One must serve SAF NATIONAL SERVICE to get a certificate of qualification for buying landed, much like Cars.

Of course, anybody can buy condos, the issue of being a LOCALLY BORN Singaporean here is immaterial.

Believe or not is up to you. Let's dig out this thread 7 years later in 2020 and see how.

Lovelle

11-01-13, 11:55

u forgot True blue female Singaporean , no NS experience also true blue Singaporean who can buy LANDED ...

proper-t

11-01-13, 11:59

I am not appealing to the Authority to do anything about rising landed prices, since I already owned landed.

I am merely gently reminding them.

7 years ago, I already said in the Internet property forums that the supply of condos will not be enough.

Now Year 2013, 11th JAN 12:23pm, I am saying that there is a bubble forming in landed property here. But other Singaporean property segments will still be healthy.

THIS IS BECAUSE THE PRICE DISPARITY between landed and private CCR condos IS TOO GREAT NOW.

Ok since you think landed is in a bubble and going to drop, and there is a mismatch in rental conjectured by some bros here, Why don't you sell off your landed now and rent OR buy CCR property? Then you can buy an even BIGGER bungalow when the prices drop. Lead by example bro !!!! Must walk the talk....

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:03

Ok since you think landed is in a bubble and going to drop, and there is a mismatch in rental as indicated by some bros here, Why don't you sell off your landed now and rent OR buy CCR property? Then you can buy an even BIGGER bungalow when the prices drop. Lead by example bro !!!! Must walk the talk....

CHIOKAPENG la.. see the photo above? study it carefully...You are asking me to sell my grandfather memory away?

I think you thought I am motivated by profits.

WOAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHH

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:04

u forgot True blue female Singaporean , no NS experience also true blue Singaporean who can buy LANDED ...

Yes..this is very correct. That is why all locally born Singaporean should be issued with a certificate of eligibility for buying landed.

this is a great idea !

proper-t

11-01-13, 12:05

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:07

Wah..10 years ah...like that means its a good time to buy now since landed will keep rising for at least a good ten years..

you missed my point again. you must be a very young man. you think this is an issue of profit or loss.

It is not la. woahahahahahahahha

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:09

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:14

And so my THIRD EYE SAW:

I climb and climb,
I climb and climb,
10 long years I climbed every day and night,
I climb and climb,
I climb and climb,
Only to find the doors to my house locked.

GOOD LUCK.

last time my grandpa time, CCR condo prices went up because only very few foreigners want to be Singaporean. So they cannot buy landed since they are still Foreigners. that is why u see Orchard property prices so high now.

Now, everyone wants to be a Singaporean and once they become one, they can buy landed liao.

This is the best HINT I can give you. It does not matter to me anyway.

GOD bless you all.

Lovelle

11-01-13, 12:15

i hope the uncles here don't mind their LANDED price to drop a bit like 40% for young / true blue Singaporean like me to buy ....hee hee

silver023

11-01-13, 12:22

i hope the uncles here don't mind their LANDED price to drop a bit like 40% for young / true blue Singaporean like me to buy ....hee hee

I second that.. going to serve the nation again next week.

proper-t

11-01-13, 12:24

CHIOKAPENG la.. see the photo above? study it carefully...You are asking me to sell my grandfather memory away?

I think you thought I am motivated by profits.

WOAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHH

EH ? in one of your other post, you said yr nassim bungalow bought from one of yr relatives so can't be passed down from yr grandfather ...Which is which now ?

And my current Nassim bungalow was actually owned by one of my relatives la...I am the hiddened buyer that bought this property at a bargain from him la.

All my relatives have no idea...

WOAHEHHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHHh

proper-t

11-01-13, 12:27

you missed my point again. you must be a very young man. you think this is an issue of profit or loss.

It is not la. woahahahahahahahha

Me old man already lah....yah,I think I understand where you are coming from now...it is not a issue of profit or loss...you just want to accumulate MORE landed...:D A lot of people here think they can move the market by posting all kinds of statements (the infamous Mr. B for e.g) but I don't think it works...nice try bro!

Originally Posted by blackjack21trader
dear all ,

i feel exactly like you guys. i also think the prices are really sky high. It is time we bring those landed owners back to Planet Earth. I was twice a landed owner and really regret selling them due to financial circumstances forced upon me. I guess that is life. At the prices currently, I cannot even afford a good terrace in good location !

i strongly believe that if we stand together as one, we can make the landed prices more affordable. we should totally keep ourselves blind on all landed adverts. make no telephone enquiries to them. hopefully we will stand a chance for our next upgrade to a landed lor.

do not let the landed developers see us forumers no up la !!!

:mad:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:29

double post ( see above photo again)

proper-t

11-01-13, 12:33

No offence bro...Your posts continue to be very interesting to read ..........keep posting lah....

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:35

No offence bro...Your posts continue to be very interesting to read ..........keep posting lah....

aiyo, why bro say like dat? i am not at all offended leh :) i also enjoy ur posting what.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:36

Me old man already lah....yah,I think I understand where you are coming from now...it is not a issue of profit or loss...you just want to accumulate MORE landed...:D A lot of people here think they can move the market by posting all kinds of statements (the infamous Mr. B for e.g) but I don't think it works...nice try bro!

exactly... i also never believe in the lame Internet also. they are just noises.

Kudos :)

proper-t

11-01-13, 12:38

exactly... i also never believe in the lame Internet also. they are just noises.

Kudos :)

Yes...only believe in your THIRD EYE...

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:39

i hope the uncles here don't mind their LANDED price to drop a bit like 40% for young / true blue Singaporean like me to buy ....hee hee

Better still. HDB should start building landed like last time in the 70s.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 12:40

Yes...only believe in your THIRD EYE...

brother proper-t, I got NO THIRD EYE la..just having fun with the ah pehs here leh. I am a Christian la, I cannot believe in ESP or any such nonsense hor.

proper-t

11-01-13, 12:47

brother proper-t, I got NO THIRD EYE la..just having fun with the ah pehs here leh. I am a Christian la, I cannot believe in ESP or any such nonsense hor.

At least you keep this forum light hearted...btw, I think I recognise one of the person in the photo. Does your family own a lot of industrial property and also used to own hotels?

bullman

11-01-13, 12:48

Waiting eagerly for TS to be correct so that landed will become affordable to all Again.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:15

What he is actually saying is even if landed property prices continue to rise in tandem with the rest of the property market, it may only be an illusion because these have risen beyond the affordable level of Singaporeans. To sell landed at the price you desire will have to depend on newly minted Singaporeans! The major restriction of landed is ONLY SINGAPOREANS CAN BUY! Exceptions have to be separately approved by the authorities.

Yes. Brother Fisherman is correct.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:18

Foreign companies, foreign shareholders, foreign directors - any of these means the developer needs to develop and sell all within a stipulated time (reference SC Global).

Very good suggestion, bro masterkey :)

Just look at USA for inspiration now.

In fact, I am eagerly waiting for Malaysia to come up with their new CM; maybe we can borrow a few ideas from them? They are always very creative when coming to foreign ownership of Johor landed.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:20

I second that.. going to serve the nation again next week.

Young man, Old Uncle Blackjack is very proud of you.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:34

Me old man already lah....yah,I think I understand where you are coming from now...it is not a issue of profit or loss...you just want to accumulate MORE landed...:D A lot of people here think they can move the market by posting all kinds of statements (the infamous Mr. B for e.g) but I don't think it works...nice try bro!

bro ah, I am very touch you actually read all my posts leh....:ashamed1:

Not like some young punks here who only wanted to be spoon fed.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:50

See all the asking prices of land less than 1000sqft terraces now:

Property Guru Search Terrace (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing?listing_type=sale&search_type=district&property_type=L&property_type_code%5B%5D=TERRA&school=&mrt=&address=&property_id=&distance=1.0&latitude=&longitude=&interest=&hdb_type_group=&minprice=&maxprice=&minbed=&maxbed=&minsize=&maxsize=&minsize_land=&maxsize_land=1000&tenure%5B%5D=F&tenure%5B%5D=L999&freetext=&minpsf=&maxpsf=&listing_posted=&mintop=&maxtop=&sort=&order=&min_latitude=&max_latitude=&min_longitude=&max_longitude=&submit=)

:doh:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:53

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 13:55

Do not only focus on profit and loss or affordability. Think carefully of what I said.

Of course I am a nobody. What I said here will never be taken seriously. I am not a public figure nor a famous person. But I know I am a righteous person, that is all I need to answer to my Boss.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 14:03

Of course I am a nobody. What I said here will never be taken seriously. I am not a public figure nor a famous person. But I know I am a righteous person, that is all I need to answer to my Boss.

The time will come if..... The disparity of the rich and poor will be so great like what is happening in Hong Kong now.

Good Luck, do not miss Uncle Blackjack by then in 2020.

:doh:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 14:06

The time will come if..... The disparity of the rich and poor will be so great like what is happening in Hong Kong now.

Good Luck, do not miss Uncle Blackjack by then in 2020.

:doh:

Like I said last time in 2009-2011 and many times over and over and over and over and over and over and over since:

Look Not for the Man of Knowledge, But the Man of Morality.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 14:08

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 14:58

Of course I am a nobody. What I said here will never be taken seriously. I am not a public figure nor a famous person. But I know I am a righteous person, that is all I need to answer to my Boss.

I am reminding you guys not because I am worried I cannot afford a landed or worried I do not have enough lands. I remind you because I owe my Boss a favor. My Boss who pulled me up from near bankruptcy.

This is the reason why I am here. Not because of any hidden agenda.

So far, I had overheard 2 foreign accent conversations with property agents about buying $3million terrace houses while waiting to fetch my kids back from school. You tell me, when I heard this conversation, what Uncle Blackjack should do? Just shut up and blame myself that I knew too many languages?

Woahahahahahhahahahahha

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:10

I am reminding you guys not because I am worried I cannot afford a landed or worried I do not have enough lands. I remind you because I owe my Boss a favor. My Boss who pulled me up from near bankruptcy.

This is the reason why I am here. Not because of any hidden agenda.

So far, I had overheard 2 foreign accent conversations with property agents about buying $3million terrace houses while waiting to fetch my kids back from school. You tell me, when I heard this conversation, what Uncle Blackjack should do? Just shut up and blame myself that I knew too many languages?

Woahahahahahhahahahahha

To add to that, one of my uncles just sold his Semi-D to a foreign accent Singaporean at a very high price. After buying, this buyer can still afford to rebuild the whole house.

Well, tell me I am too sensitive or over-reacting. But this happens one time too many.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:14

To add to that, one of my uncles just sold his Semi-D to a foreign accent Singaporean at a very high price. After buying, this buyer can still afford to rebuild the whole house.

Well, tell me I am too sensitive or over-reacting. But this happens one time too many.

True, like brother here said, the landed owners are but a small percentage.

DO NOT FORGET:

A big bulk of the middle class buyers now are born within such landed families. The children of retired teachers in Teachers Estate is one such example.

Laugh at my stupidity all you want. :doh:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:23

True, like brother here said, the landed owners are but a small percentage.

DO NOT FORGET:

A big bulk of the middle class buyers now are born within such landed families. The children of retired teachers in Teachers Estate is one such example.

Laugh at my stupidity all you want. :doh:

I THANK my Boss for letting me born into a filthy rich family, but growing up with many friends from the working class.

I THANK HIM for helping me keep my sanity and morality despite being a playboy for many long years before marriage.

I THANK HIM for helping me understand what is it truly like to lose it all and to regain everything back again.

I THANK HIM.

AMEN.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:31

To add to that, one of my uncles just sold his Semi-D to a foreign accent Singaporean at a very high price. After buying, this buyer can still afford to rebuild the whole house.

Well, tell me I am too sensitive or over-reacting. But this happens one time too many.

Further more, my wife told me 2 of the foreign accent parents from my kids schools told her they each bought a landed house in Burnfoot Terrace.

Tell me, good brothers and sisters here, should I shut my mouth up and watch in silence the landed dreams getting out of reach for my good schoolmates from Victoria School? Some of them are accountants and lawyers earning big money.

Tell me.

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:34

Further more, my wife told me 2 of the foreign accent parents from my kids schools told her they each bought a landed house in Burnfoot Terrace.

Tell me, good brothers and sisters here, should I shut my mouth up and watch in silence the landed dreams getting out of reach for my good schoolmates from Victoria School? Some of them are accountants and lawyers earning big money.

Tell me.

I do not profess to be a great man capable of great feat like freedom fighting or what have you all those nonsense.

I am but A SIMPLE MAN WHO KNOW WHAT IS COMING.

GOOD LUCK.

Shanhz

11-01-13, 15:41

sisters here, should I shut my mouth up and watch in silence the landed dreams getting out of reach for my good schoolmates from Victoria School? Some of them are accountants and lawyers earning big money.

Tell me.

this resonates with me.
btw, sifu, who's your Boss?

rosnyus

11-01-13, 15:49

this resonates with me.
btw, sifu, who's your Boss?

his boss is god lah

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:52

this resonates with me.
btw, sifu, who's your Boss?

My Boss lives among us but we are all blinded and cannot see.

WOAAHAHAHHHHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHE

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:54

his boss is god lah

Do not dwell on religion here, good brother rosnyus.

WOAAHAHHAHHAHAHHHEHHEHE

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 15:57

his boss is god lah

you know why I ask you not to dwell on religion here, good brother?

One brother after reading my "THIRD EYE" posts got so worried and emailed me if I was talking to "fallen angels".

I reiterate, I like to tell grandmother stories la....Talk cork Sing Song only la.

WOAHA..CHIOKAPENG LA!

ysyap

11-01-13, 15:58

Do not dwell on religion here, good brother rosnyus.

WOAAHAHHAHHAHAHHHEHHEHESome people have their stomach as their gods... not that religious lah... Lol...

rosnyus

11-01-13, 15:59

Do not dwell on religion here, good brother rosnyus.

WOAAHAHHAHHAHAHHHEHHEHE

sister here lah, uncle :)

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:01

Some people have their stomach as their gods... not that religious lah... Lol...

THIS IS A Wise statement by brother ysyap, do take heed all :)

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:03

sister here lah, uncle :)

paiseh, sister rosnyus. I will try to remember your gender :)

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:06

paiseh, sister rosnyus. I will try to remember your gender :)

I am not like that GUNIANG Officer Chestnut, so forgetful. I think he forgotten his password to this forum la.

GUNIANG !

:mad:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:09

I am not like that GUNIANG Officer Chestnut, so forgetful. I think he forgotten his password to this forum la.

GUNIANG !

:mad:

My good friend OBAMA so busy also can afford a little time to post on his facebook.

This GUNIANG Chestnut think he is busier than OBAMA la.

GUNIANG!
:mad:

11-01-13, 16:45

My good friend OBAMA so busy also can afford a little time to post on his facebook.

This GUNIANG Chestnut think he is busier than OBAMA la.

GUNIANG!
:mad:
So what happened to that GUNIANG?

He busy printing attractive 3D objects?

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:50

So what happened to that GUNIANG?

He busy printing attractive 3D objects?

Beats me, I was looking for his new post day and night. Cannot see him leh. Maybe he went Australia to help them to put out the fire ?

:doh:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:53

Beats me, I was looking for his new post day and night. Cannot see him leh. Maybe he went Australia to help them to put out the fire ?

:doh:

CHESTNUT KOR KOR ! WHERE ARE YOU?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XB9IbMnxQ

:confused:

blackjack21trader

11-01-13, 16:55

CHESTNUT KOR KOR !

:mad:

Shanhz

11-01-13, 21:23

Beats me, I was looking for his new post day and night. Cannot see him leh. Maybe he went Australia to help them to put out the fire ?

:doh:

he is the new candidate in punggol lah. that's why have to go there do NS, here NS cannot do leow

Shanhz

11-01-13, 21:25

Some people have their stomach as their gods... not that religious lah... Lol...

that is called 食神

blackjack21trader

12-01-13, 04:03

that is called 食神

WOAAHAHAHAH...FUNNY,brother !

blackjack21trader

14-01-13, 08:41

Confirmed double confirmed landed will drop while rest of the other property segments to remain very healthy liao.

Kudos ! I LOVE AH KHAW AND THARMAN LA !

Lovelle

14-01-13, 08:56

Like like like

mantrix

14-01-13, 09:17

Confirmed double confirmed landed will drop while rest of the other property segments to remain very healthy liao.

Kudos ! I LOVE AH KHAW AND THARMAN LA !

Yup because PRs lose out. Landed being typically the segment with highest quantum and lowest yield will be significantly affected. The lure of capital appreciation is all but gone.

lajia

14-01-13, 10:15

ya large quantum affected, i would agree. however, those landed pricing similar to the range of condo (from 1.3-3mil) would not be hit. in fact, it might be better off. Cannot be a situation whereby condo keep rising and exceed landed right? It make sense??:o
with condo price rising, those smaller landed & cluster will be in lime light. :)
keep a look out for them, especially for those u call them in ulu location. wait till the new announcement comes and they will be your golden mine...:D
and lastly, CCR will surely and badly be HIT!:cool: :2cents:

do you think at this time, now ppl upgrade or buy for own stay more, or those invest more (those with 2 or more)?

Yup because PRs lose out. Landed being typically the segment with highest quantum and lowest yield will be significantly affected. The lure of capital appreciation is all but gone.

Ringo33

14-01-13, 10:26

Yup because PRs lose out. Landed being typically the segment with highest quantum and lowest yield will be significantly affected. The lure of capital appreciation is all but gone.

well said.

Higher Quantum and Lowest Yield

zeamybro

14-01-13, 10:34

I may not see the full picture, but i would imagine most landed ppty owners in singapore have very deep pockets.

Those whom i know selling are not becos they are in need of cash, but either becos the parents old liao wanna retire into smaller homes, and/or the parents wanna sell off the land so that the assets could be divided easily amongst the descendants.

Once interests rates go up, those who are still heavily on loan might be killed off. But then again, the supply for landed is so scarce afterall ...

minority

14-01-13, 10:39

ya large quantum affected, i would agree. however, those landed pricing similar to the range of condo (from 1.3-3mil) would not be hit. in fact, it might be better off. Cannot be a situation whereby condo keep rising and exceed landed right? It make sense??:o
with condo price rising, those smaller landed & cluster will be in lime light. :)
keep a look out for them, especially for those u call them in ulu location. wait till the new announcement comes and they will be your golden mine...:D
and lastly, CCR will surely and badly be HIT!:cool: :2cents:

do you think at this time, now ppl upgrade or buy for own stay more, or those invest more (those with 2 or more)?

u are thinking in sgporean context. from a overseas investor context CCR will be a buy when there is slow down. all depends on rental support if its there.

also remember for foreign investor which is cash rich this is just a service tax.

lajia

14-01-13, 10:45

investor being deterred by CM and lousy economic environment for expat which largely affect the rental. so, no rental, high cost (with all CM included), yield bad....anything else?? now time for investor to hoot, u think so? who say down mean buy now? will it be down and down and down before they decided to come in? cash rich doesn't mean dont care...:tsk-tsk: if i only think of sg context, the situation will be even worst...:o
:2cents: anyway, just my opinion.

u are thinking in sgporean context. from a overseas investor context CCR will be a buy when there is slow down. all depends on rental support if its there.

also remember for foreign investor which is cash rich this is just a service tax.

DC33_2008

14-01-13, 11:06

Let us know if there are firesales after the latest CM.

blackjack21trader

17-01-13, 12:50

Let us know if there are firesales after the latest CM.

Just remember the title of this thread. When my Third Eye says something, there is a very high chance of it materialising within 6 months.

eng81157

17-01-13, 13:05

ya large quantum affected, i would agree. however, those landed pricing similar to the range of condo (from 1.3-3mil) would not be hit. in fact, it might be better off. Cannot be a situation whereby condo keep rising and exceed landed right? It make sense??:o
with condo price rising, those smaller landed & cluster will be in lime light. :)
keep a look out for them, especially for those u call them in ulu location. wait till the new announcement comes and they will be your golden mine...:D
and lastly, CCR will surely and badly be HIT!:cool: :2cents:

do you think at this time, now ppl upgrade or buy for own stay more, or those invest more (those with 2 or more)?

try looking for a terrace house that is below 2mil. if you can find, PM me and i give you commission :D

blackjack21trader

17-01-13, 13:39

try looking for a terrace house that is below 2mil. if you can find, PM me and i give you commission :D

EXactly ! Many are still unaware of the inflated and bloated price in landed.

focus

17-01-13, 14:38

6mths... waiting .. Hope your vision comes true. :)

blackjack21trader

18-01-13, 13:09

6mths... waiting .. Hope your vision comes true. :)

Everyday for 6 months I shall come here and shout "landed crash" until it really becomes a reality.:tongue3:

blackjack21trader

18-01-13, 13:10

Landed will drop more than 30% while other property segments continue to remain healthy and rise.

18-01-13, 13:12

Ah B reincarnated? :D:D:D

proud owner

18-01-13, 13:12

Everyday for 6 months I shall come here and shout "landed crash" until it really becomes a reality.:tongue3:

to be more specific ... when u said landed... do u mean those 1000-1400 sqft landed ?

i do agree those are insane ...

caveat shows quite many of land size below 1500 sqft sold at almost 1800 psf land

blackjack21trader

18-01-13, 13:32

to be more specific ... when u said landed... do u mean those 1000-1400 sqft landed ?

i do agree those are insane ...

caveat shows quite many of land size below 1500 sqft sold at almost 1800 psf land

finally, your agents told u the asking prices for this group of landed liao tiobo? yes I am refering to this group.

blackjack21trader

18-01-13, 13:33

Ah B reincarnated? :D:D:D

WOAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, btw where is Ah B har ?:doh:

proud owner

18-01-13, 13:39

finally, your agents told u the asking prices for this group of landed liao tiobo? yes I am refering to this group.

yes i realised it for some time ...

dont know what those buyers were thinking ...

and they are mostly in D15 and D20

18-01-13, 13:54

WOAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, btw where is Ah B har ?:doh:

He's still having fun in CNA forums. Voice very loud. :doh:

blackjack21trader

18-01-13, 16:41

Exactly on the 12th day of the Chinese Lunar New Year, Rental in the Lion City will start to shoot up by more than 10%.

Good Luck.

charm

18-01-13, 21:34

try looking for a terrace house that is below 2mil. if you can find, PM me and i give you commission :D

Terraced House For Sale - Loyang Villas (D17) (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/12805071/for-sale-loyang-villas)

S$ 1,750,001 (Negotiable)
S$ 700.00 psf (built-up)
2,030 sqft / 189 sqm (land), 2,500 sqft / 232 sqm (built-up)
18 Loyang Rise, 507583 Changi Airport / Changi Village, Changi / Pasir Ris (D17-18)

Terraced House 99-year Leasehold

5 BedsListed on Jan 18, 2013

My commission ??? :D :D

blackjack21trader

19-01-13, 07:40

I think brother eng81157 refers to freehold terrace which is currently asking at more than S$3million.

Most 99 years leasehold resale landed are to left with around 60-70 years lease if I am not wrong. When you go to the bank with the property with 60 years lease, I do not think they wish to take too much risk for your loan.

Just My Humble Opinion Only.:doh:

leesg123

19-01-13, 12:42

jwong71

19-01-13, 13:49

Terraced House For Sale - Loyang Villas (D17) (http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/12805071/for-sale-loyang-villas)

S$ 1,750,001 (Negotiable)
S$ 700.00 psf (built-up)
2,030 sqft / 189 sqm (land), 2,500 sqft / 232 sqm (built-up)
18 Loyang Rise, 507583 Changi Airport / Changi Village, Changi / Pasir Ris (D17-18)

Terraced House 99-year Leasehold

5 BedsListed on Jan 18, 2013

My commission ??? :D :D

Few units asking for 1.5mio.
Wonder hw much % can it drop, as bj21 predict

lajia

19-01-13, 14:15

Drop until condo of smaller size also more expensive lor...:o that what TS says it will drop and others rises...u think possible??:confused: no brainer rite? Anyway, there is a lot of grey areas when he make such comments and want to leave it to your imagination.

Few units asking for 1.5mio.
Wonder hw much % can it drop, as bj21 predict

leesg123

19-01-13, 15:55

Bro BJ21 has 3rd eye! He can SEE what most CANNOT See!

Sometimes i received vibes from him, though signal is weak, from what i can figure out:

Hint...URA Masterplan 2013...plot ratio....

pardon me if i got the wrong signal, must be due to interference on a rainy day :doh:

DC33_2008

19-01-13, 17:47

Difficult to drop price when most of them are inherited and fully paid up.
so many FH terrace at macpherson area.

Ringo33

19-01-13, 18:10

Difficult to drop price when most of them are inherited and fully paid up.

Most I know who bought landed in the past 2 to 4 years are geared up to their nose. One friend recently call me kpkb about the cooling measures say he want to liquidate his landed but now very difficult. I ask why want to sell. he say over geared loh.

wind30

19-01-13, 19:54

Most I know who bought landed in the past 2 to 4 years are geared up to their nose. One friend recently call me kpkb about the cooling measures say he want to liquidate his landed but now very difficult. I ask why want to sell. he say over geared loh.

?? Unless he took up a new mortage to get more money, I don't see how can you be geared up with landed.

I bought my place like 3-4 years back. Even if you take 80% loan, I think by now will become only 50% loan...

Ringo33

19-01-13, 20:44

?? Unless he took up a new mortage to get more money, I don't see how can you be geared up with landed.

I bought my place like 3-4 years back. Even if you take 80% loan, I think by now will become only 50% loan...

most people buying landed these days are gearing to 80% and thats is not very healthy leveraging unless you have another 20 or 30% of cash reserve to finance your mortgage.

wind30

19-01-13, 20:54

most people buying landed these days are gearing to 80% and thats is not very healthy leveraging unless you have another 20 or 30% of cash reserve to finance your mortgage.

you asked past 2-4 years. I think the run up in the past 2-4 years meant that none of them are geared at anywhere close to 80%...

Ringo33

19-01-13, 23:20

you asked past 2-4 years. I think the run up in the past 2-4 years meant that none of them are geared at anywhere close to 80%...

the only difference between then and now is that you are sitting on paper gain, while you still need to pay for the mortgage which you committed 2 to 4 years ago.

So if your income doesnt increase over the last 2 to 4 years, you will still be struggling as hard to pay your mortgage. And if you are behind or lose you job, you will still charge for late payment etc.

hutsutau

18-02-13, 17:07

Confirmed double confirmed landed will drop while rest of the other property segments to remain very healthy liao.

Kudos ! I LOVE AH KHAW AND THARMAN LA !

Is it due to the fact that landed property has outpaced non landed in terms of price growth in the past few years?

hutsutau

18-02-13, 17:10

finally, your agents told u the asking prices for this group of landed liao tiobo? yes I am refering to this group.

how about those 20000 sqft gcb?

hutsutau

18-02-13, 17:11

The time will come if..... The disparity of the rich and poor will be so great like what is happening in Hong Kong now.

Good Luck, do not miss Uncle Blackjack by then in 2020.

:doh:

How bad is it ?

blackjack21trader

18-02-13, 17:51

How bad is it ?

dear brother hutsutau. how bad depends on the morality of human beings from now till 2020 :)

Good Luck.

hutsutau

18-02-13, 18:10

dear brother hutsutau. how bad depends on the morality of human beings from now till 2020 :)

Good Luck.

You mean the poor over there are poorer than those here or the rich over there are richer?

blackjack21trader

19-02-13, 12:13

your handsome brother here is very accurate in predicting the property market. back in 2009 if u dug out my threads, u will find that i anticipated the ocr prices to rise more than ccr prices.

that time one brother challenged me that it is i possible that ocr rise more than ccr.

now i am telling u again. landed will drop more than 20% while the rest of the property segment continue to ride more than 5%.

blackjack21trader

19-02-13, 12:27

your handsome brother here is very accurate in predicting the property market. back in 2009 if u dug out my threads, u will find that i anticipated the ocr prices to rise more than ccr prices.

that time one brother challenged me that it is impossible that ocr rise more than ccr. that Guniang now i never see him sign in here liao.

now i am telling u again. landed will drop more than 20% while the rest of the property segment continue to rise more than 5%.

paiseh, my stupidphone tried to act smart to auto-correct my spellings.

blackjack21trader

19-02-13, 12:28

now i am telling u again. landed will drop more than 20% while the rest of the property segment continue to ride more than 5%.

Everynight, before I sleep I shall repeat this. WOAhahHAHAHAHAHAH

blackjack21trader

19-02-13, 12:29

now i am telling u again. landed will drop more than 20% while the rest of the property segment continue to ride more than 5%.

Everynight, before I sleep I shall repeat this. WOAhahHAHAHAHAHAH

Some landed could drop as much as 50% ! Especially BIG ONES like semi-ds or detached

WOAHAHAHHEHEHEHEHEH

proper-t

19-02-13, 12:39

Some landed could drop as much as 50% ! Especially BIG ONES like semi-ds or detached

WOAHAHAHHEHEHEHEHEH

Capitalism can be a friend or enemy, if left unchecked it will bring the entire country down to it knees. The recent elections result and the demonstration at hong lin park is a good example of where Singapore is heading and if government doesnt do anything to address the people's concern, PAP will be voter out in the coming few election.

In the past Singapore was one of the most friendly country for such investors, but of recent years, they have made it more difficult for rich foreigners to qualify for PR and making if extremely difficult for PR to buy landed property. This could also be due to worldwide clamp down on money laundering.

So IF the government is to continue bringing in bus load of NC to Singapore, I think it will be prudent to review current policy of landed property.

This forumer think that govt going to bring in bus load of new citizens and they they will buy multiple landed. In fact he is so scared that he is lobbying for curbs or restrictions. If true, then how to drop?

blackjack21trader

19-02-13, 15:57

This forumer think that govt going to bring in bus load of new citizens and they they will buy multiple landed. In fact he is so scared that he is lobbying for curbs or restrictions. If true, then how to drop?

Very clever brother, this forumer will be the reason landed will drop. Don't believe just wait and see.

My THIRD EYE is always right. 100% accuracy track record since 2004.

proper-t

19-02-13, 16:09

Very clever brother, this forumer will be the reason landed will drop. Don't believe just wait and see.

My THIRD EYE is always right. 100% accuracy track record since 2004.

Why? because he panic now and buy up all the land ah.

Gear up like crazy and hope for new citizen to buy.

But because he give advice that buying landed is senseless, they don't touch, after that interest rate rise, cannot service loan, have to sell off cheap cheap..

end result - price drop...

Anyway, I remember you said you are a Christian, can believe in THIRD EYE meh?

not interested in house, more interested in land.

actually with the ridicules price today, investing in landed property in Singapore just doesnt make anymore sense.

Imagine cost of investment at >$1000psf with rental rate of <$2psf. After factoring the interest and cost of up keeping property, what do you have left?

There has been an active of discussion on another thread about the MAS abolishing USD SIBOR and this could potential be a turn point where interest rate will rise.

Consider the large loan quantum of landed property and low yield, do you guys think that rising interest rate will cause a big correction to landed property?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?p=370433#post370433 (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?p=370433#post370433)m

sgbuyer

19-02-13, 16:20

to be more specific ... when u said landed... do u mean those 1000-1400 sqft landed ?

i do agree those are insane ...

caveat shows quite many of land size below 1500 sqft sold at almost 1800 psf land

1500 sq ft is only the land area. The built up can be as large as 3500 sq ft.

Where can you get 3500 sq feet freehold condo for $2.7 million ($771 psf)? :cool:

Even HDB in Bukit Merah with 70 years lease left can cost $800 psf.

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 03:58

Why? because he panic now and buy up all the land ah.

Anyway, I remember you said you are a Christian, can believe in THIRD EYE meh?

YOU ARE CRAZY ARH ?

You really think I believe in THIRD EYE or ESP or some special power arh?

I told you I have a THIRD EYE because I AM BEING HUMBLE. Note how I always boast about myself and how handsome I am? THAT IS BECAUSE I AM THE MOST HUMBLE LA because your common sense in ur tiny human brains would tell you there is no such human being in existence la!

If I tell you I AM VERY INTELLIGENT AND 100% accurate because of MY RESEARCH AND EXPERIENCE, would you believe me ? You as the nature of human beings, will think I AM AN ARROGANT FREAK !

I TOLD YOU I have a THIRD EYE TO CREATE DOUBTS IN YOUR MIND ABOUT THE INFORMATION I SHARE WITH YOU SO THAT YOU WILL NOT BE SPOON-FED and at the very minimal be a thinking person yourself la!

Amen.

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 04:03

GUNIANGS !

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 04:07

GUNIANGS !

WOAHAHeEHE

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 04:11

I still think I am the most handsome, nevertheless.

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 04:13

I still think I am the most handsome, nevertheless.

Feel so good after saying that to myself. WOAHAHAHEHHEHEHE

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 04:42

YOU ARE CRAZY ARH ?

You really think I believe in THIRD EYE or ESP or some special power arh?

I told you I have a THIRD EYE because I AM BEING HUMBLE. Note how I always boast about myself and how handsome I am? THAT IS BECAUSE I AM THE MOST HUMBLE LA because your common sense in ur tiny human brains would tell you there is no such human being in existence la!

If I tell you I AM VERY INTELLIGENT AND 100% accurate because of MY RESEARCH AND EXPERIENCE, would you believe me ? You as the nature of human beings, will think I AM AN ARROGANT FREAK !

I TOLD YOU I have a THIRD EYE TO CREATE DOUBTS IN YOUR MIND ABOUT THE INFORMATION I SHARE WITH YOU SO THAT YOU WILL NOT BE SPOON-FED and at the very minimal be a thinking person yourself la!

Amen.

"LANDED especially bungalows and semi-ds regardless of lease terms ( 99 years or freehold inclusive) SHALL DROP more than 50% while cluster houses, small terraces, condos, ECs, HDBs shall continue to rise steadily until 2030.

Those landed owners I mentioned above shall be stuck for more than 15 years after March 2013. In 2030, these huge landed of land less than 10,000 sqft but built up to maximum plot ratio of more than 7000sqft could be worth less than 50% of their present values.

GCB like Sentosa or Nassim Hill with land of more than 15,000sqft shall continue to rise.

This is due to the great disparity ratio of exceeding built-up area as compared with the land area.

For GCB, the land is bigger than the built-up, so there is minimal impact. But for those landed built to the max plot ratio of around 2:1 when the built-up exceeds the land, this class will be at risk.

"

- wise words by BJ21T dated 20 Feb 2013

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 04:53

"LANDED especially bungalows and semi-ds regardless of lease terms ( 99 years or freehold inclusive) SHALL DROP more than 50% while cluster houses, small terraces, condos, ECs, HDBs shall continue to rise steadily until 2030.

Those landed owners I mentioned above shall be stuck for more than 15 years after March 2013. In 2030, these huge landed of land less than 10,000 sqft but built up to maximum plot ratio of more than 7000sqft could be worth less than 50% of their present values.

GCB like Sentosa or Nassim Hill with land of more than 15,000sqft shall continue to rise.

This is due to the great disparity ratio of exceeding built-up area as compared with the land area.

For GCB, the land is bigger than the built-up, so there is minimal impact. But for those landed built to the max plot ratio of around 2:1 when the built-up exceeds the land, this class will be at risk.

"

- wise words by BJ21T dated 20 Feb 2013

As the 3000 years Chinese fengshui warned:

"BUILT NOT A SINGLE HOUSE THAT IS LARGER THAN ITS LAND."

屋身不可大过地主。树大招风也！

Good Luck, that is all I can help :(

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 05:03

As the 3000 years Chinese fengshui warned:

"BUILT NOT A SINGLE HOUSE THAT IS LARGER THAN ITS LAND."

屋身不可大过地主。树大招风也！

Good Luck, that is all I can help :(

Terraces and cluster houses are considered many owners and many houses linked on a piece of land. All different "qi" congregating into the same land. So they are NOT at risk.

GCB of more than 15,000sqft and house body built-up of around 8000-9000 sqft is also not at risk because the body of the house is smaller than its land.

When you build a single HUGE house on a small land plot, you better hope there are at least more than 20 owners of different "qi" sharing the same property like an apartment.

Good Luck.

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 05:23

Terraces and cluster houses are considered many owners and many houses linked on a piece of land. All different "qi" congregating into the same land. So they are NOT at risk.

GCB of more than 15,000sqft and house body built-up of around 8000-9000 sqft is also not at risk because the body of the house is smaller than its land.

When you build a single HUGE house on a small land plot, you better hope there are at least more than 20 owners of different "qi" sharing the same property like an apartment.

Good Luck.

Don't believe me go ahead and buy those landed I mentioned with your inexperience tiny human brains. Later in 2014, dun come crying back to me like a baby.

WOAAHHAHHHEDHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEH

Ringo33

20-02-13, 08:00

Terraces and cluster houses are considered many owners and many houses linked on a piece of land. All different "qi" congregating into the same land. So they are NOT at risk.

GCB of more than 15,000sqft and house body built-up of around 8000-9000 sqft is also not at risk because the body of the house is smaller than its land.

When you build a single HUGE house on a small land plot, you better hope there are at least more than 20 owners of different "qi" sharing the same property like an apartment.

Good Luck.

Yes the stars alignment for landed properties has been greatly affected by the recent passing of asteroid 2012 DA14

Shanhz

20-02-13, 08:09

"LANDED especially bungalows and semi-ds regardless of lease terms ( 99 years or freehold inclusive) SHALL DROP more than 50% while cluster houses, small terraces, condos, ECs, HDBs shall continue to rise steadily until 2030.

Those landed owners I mentioned above shall be stuck for more than 15 years after March 2013. In 2030, these huge landed of land less than 10,000 sqft but built up to maximum plot ratio of more than 7000sqft could be worth less than 50% of their present values.

GCB like Sentosa or Nassim Hill with land of more than 15,000sqft shall continue to rise.

This is due to the great disparity ratio of exceeding built-up area as compared with the land area.

For GCB, the land is bigger than the built-up, so there is minimal impact. But for those landed built to the max plot ratio of around 2:1 when the built-up exceeds the land, this class will be at risk.

"

- wise words by BJ21T dated 20 Feb 2013

bro, so you are saying land is precious but house is not. so if can find landed with huge land and super run-down house, better grab?

Pinball

20-02-13, 08:15

bro, didn't take medicine today huh?

YOU ARE CRAZY ARH ?

You really think I believe in THIRD EYE or ESP or some special power arh?

I told you I have a THIRD EYE because I AM BEING HUMBLE. Note how I always boast about myself and how handsome I am? THAT IS BECAUSE I AM THE MOST HUMBLE LA because your common sense in ur tiny human brains would tell you there is no such human being in existence la!

If I tell you I AM VERY INTELLIGENT AND 100% accurate because of MY RESEARCH AND EXPERIENCE, would you believe me ? You as the nature of human beings, will think I AM AN ARROGANT FREAK !

I TOLD YOU I have a THIRD EYE TO CREATE DOUBTS IN YOUR MIND ABOUT THE INFORMATION I SHARE WITH YOU SO THAT YOU WILL NOT BE SPOON-FED and at the very minimal be a thinking person yourself la!

Amen.

proper-t

20-02-13, 08:41

YOU ARE CRAZY ARH ?

You really think I believe in THIRD EYE or ESP or some special power arh?

I told you I have a THIRD EYE because I AM BEING HUMBLE. Note how I always boast about myself and how handsome I am? THAT IS BECAUSE I AM THE MOST HUMBLE LA because your common sense in ur tiny human brains would tell you there is no such human being in existence la!

If I tell you I AM VERY INTELLIGENT AND 100% accurate because of MY RESEARCH AND EXPERIENCE, would you believe me ? You as the nature of human beings, will think I AM AN ARROGANT FREAK !

I TOLD YOU I have a THIRD EYE TO CREATE DOUBTS IN YOUR MIND ABOUT THE INFORMATION I SHARE WITH YOU SO THAT YOU WILL NOT BE SPOON-FED and at the very minimal be a thinking person yourself la!

Amen.

Then here is something for non-spoon fed people to THINK seriously about :

You have been saying more or less the same since Dec 2011.

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=12586
Titled :Property prices except landed will still go up

It is now Feb 2013 and I have yet to see any materialisation of your HUMBLE predictions. If anything, landed prices have gone UP since Dec 2011. For reasonable people with common sense, what can you draw from this ?

In fact, I find this thread very similar to another one where someone has been shouting that property prices will crash since more than a year ago.

proper-t

20-02-13, 08:53

Maybe this forumer could be onto something :

Guys, we have all been taken for a ride la!

Mr Bull and Mr Bear, Blackjack and Basic...all is same person la. Split personality la!

Merry Xmas!

Please post more leh because it seems to be having the opposite effect.

luzman

20-02-13, 09:10

Some landed could drop as much as 50% ! Especially BIG ONES like semi-ds or detached

WOAHAHAHHEHEHEHEHEH
I think it is possible... Landed prices are marked up based on $psf now.. How can that be possible. Also, many who buy and do A&A and try to sell at a huge profit will be stuck soon because for $3m to ave a <2000sqft of tiny land.. I find this ridiculous... These are all inflated prices and chances of correcting is higher than chances of rising now

proper-t

20-02-13, 09:13

I think it is possible... Landed prices are marked up based on $psf now.. How can that be possible. Also, many who buy and do A&A and try to sell at a huge profit will be stuck soon because for $3m to ave a <2000sqft of tiny land.. I find this ridiculous... These are all inflated prices and chances of correcting is higher than chances of rising now

How can they be stuck when this forumer thinks that bus loads of new citizens will be coming in to buy multiple landed properties ? :

Capitalism can be a friend or enemy, if left unchecked it will bring the entire country down to it knees. The recent elections result and the demonstration at hong lin park is a good example of where Singapore is heading and if government doesnt do anything to address the people's concern, PAP will be voter out in the coming few election.

In the past Singapore was one of the most friendly country for such investors, but of recent years, they have made it more difficult for rich foreigners to qualify for PR and making if extremely difficult for PR to buy landed property. This could also be due to worldwide clamp down on money laundering.

So IF the government is to continue bringing in bus load of NC to Singapore, I think it will be prudent to review current policy of landed property.

luzman

20-02-13, 09:19

How can they be stuck when this forumer thinks that bus loads of new citizens will be coming in to buy multiple landed properties ? :
This is what I call "selective acceptance of information".. Meaning, u filter information that you want to hear and ignore the facts or not questioning the facts. How can a bus load of foreigners buy landed? Think!!!!!

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 09:21

proper-t

20-02-13, 09:23

This is what I call "selective acceptance of information".. Meaning, u filter information that you want to hear and ignore the facts or not questioning the facts. How can a bus load of foreigners buy landed? Think!!!!!

This is what I call 'reading without comprehension' - He mentioned (NC) NEW CITIZENS. Go check what a citizen can buy.

luzman

20-02-13, 09:26

This is what I call 'reading without comprehension' - He mentioned (NC) NEW CITIZENS. Go check what a citizen can buy.
Please don't just plug what forumers say and think this is a fact.. Do u have data to show a bus load of NC is coming in to buy?

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 09:28

luzman

20-02-13, 09:30

Nowadays a <2000 sq ft 99 years leasehold OCR condo with NO land also can cost $3m.

So what's the big deal about $3m <2000 sq ft Freehold terrace.

Makes no sense leh!

;)
That's what I am trying to tell u.. Condo go by $psf and now, landed also trying to sell by $psf..

Condo market is not exactly the same as landed in the sense the rental market is supporting the price level as well as the type of buyers are more varied.. Landed on the other hand was previously mainly for own use or stay and hardly for investment because of poorer yield and restrictions on types of buyers. Now, it's just ridiculous when landed are selling by $psf

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 09:33

That's what I am trying to tell u.. Condo go by $psf and now, landed also trying to sell by $psf..

Condo market is not exactly the same as landed in the sense the rental market is supporting the price level as well as the type of buyers are more varied.. Landed on the other hand was previously mainly for own use or stay and hardly for investment because of poorer yield and restrictions on types of buyers. Now, it's just ridiculous when landed are selling by $psf

You're right, but the problem is Singapore has no more new freehold landed property, whereas the government can create 1-2 million units of 99 yr leasehold new condos and HDB flats over the next 20 years.

Scarcity retains value.

proper-t

20-02-13, 09:37

Please don't just plug what forumers say and think this is a fact.. Do u have data to show a bus load of NC is coming in to buy?

This was posted by that forumer. IF you are not convinced, please question the thread starter himself in his thread as he is the one who is making the assertation.

I provide the link below :

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809

If you can successfully argue against him and show conclusively that what he is asserting is not true, please come back here and enlighten all of the readers in this thread. I, myself, will be very interested to know the outcome.

luzman

20-02-13, 09:39

You're right, but the problem is Singapore has no more new freehold landed property, whereas the government can create 1-2 million units of 99 yr leasehold new condos and HDB flats over the next 20 years.

Scarcity retains value.
Value is not the same as over valued.. The case here is over valued.. And correction is possible.. I didn't argue about whether its valuable.. For all assets, there is the thing about over value whether it is abundant or scare.

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 09:44

Value is not the same as over valued.. The case here is over valued.. And correction is possible.. I didn't argue about whether its valuable.. For all assets, there is the thing about over value whether it is abundant or scare.

Yes, of course, in the short term, anything that has gone up too fast will correct, but in the long term, history has shown that freehold terraces appreciate more than 99 years leasehold condos over time.

In the early 80s and late 70s, new 99 yr leasehold condos cost more than freehold terraces double their size.

lajia

20-02-13, 09:49

Ringo33

20-02-13, 09:56

That's what I am trying to tell u.. Condo go by $psf and now, landed also trying to sell by $psf..

Condo market is not exactly the same as landed in the sense the rental market is supporting the price level as well as the type of buyers are more varied.. Landed on the other hand was previously mainly for own use or stay and hardly for investment because of poorer yield and restrictions on types of buyers. Now, it's just ridiculous when landed are selling by $psf

One of the common justification for landed property is to compare the PSF to condo while ignoring the tangible lifestyle benefits of both. To me, this is like comparing buying a bus to a sedan.

For a bus, we can seat 30 passengers while cars can only take 5, so if we compare the cost/passenger, bus is undervalue.

proper-t

20-02-13, 10:01

One of the common justification for landed property is to compare the PSF to condo while ignoring the tangible lifestyle benefits of both. To me, this is like comparing buying a bus to a sedan.

For a bus, we can seat 30 passengers while cars can only take 5, so if we compare the cost/passenger, bus is undervalue.

Value is what the potential buyer perceives it to be. To a local citizen, it may be over-valued. To a new citizen with millions of dollars in cash, it may be under-valued unless you are saying that new citizens do not hold that view and will not buy landed property.

Ringo33

20-02-13, 10:11

It is not Freehold terraces that are overvalued, but rather 99 leasehold condos that has unlimited supply - "200,000" units over next 3 years, and maybe another 1,500,000 units by 2030.

In comparison, there are no new Freehold terraces!!!

come 2020, I believe 20% of Singaporeans will own a FH landed property in Malaysia. Not many people will be bother about tiny overvalue terraces in Singapore.

In future I believe most people in Singapore will choose to live in compact apartments, and then own a weekend home in Malaysia.

Living landed property in Singapore (especially those with tiny land) will be deem as wasting money unless you belong to the elite group where money is secondary.

proper-t

20-02-13, 10:15

come 2020, I believe 20% of Singaporeans will own a FH landed property in Malaysia. Not many people will be bother about tiny overvalue terraces in Singapore.

In future I believe most people in Singapore will choose to live in compact apartments, and then own a weekend home in Malaysia.

Living landed property in Singapore (especially those with tiny land) will be deem as wasting money unless you belong to the elite group where money is secondary.

Please reconcile the above with what you have posted below :

To buy a Malaysia property, you will need to put in sizable down payment as interest rate in MY is a lot higher than in Singapore. So it will not be worth while if one need to take up 70% loan for a Malaysia property.

I believe that rental market for Malaysia property is pretty lousy bad, so it might make more sense to actually park your money in another Singapore property and then use your rental to pay for your rent in Malaysia.

Advantage is that you are mobile and you can choose to return to Singapore anytime you want without having to worry about mortgage payment for your Malaysia property.

lajia

20-02-13, 10:26

bro, look at his footnote...:D

Please reconcile the above with what you have posted below :

Ringo33

20-02-13, 10:34

Please reconcile the above with what you have posted below :

I have already told you many times that I have no interest to engage you in any discussion because of your inability to absorb what you read, your bad habit of quoting others out of context.

In the below quote that you took from my discussion with fellow forummer about buying a RM2m landed property (I REPEAT, RM2,000,000) vs renting one, you simply highlight want you wish to read in RED while you are ignoring other important details which I am now highlighting for you in BLUE

As a landed property owner are you not aware about the importance of interest and big mortgage on landed property? Or are you just assuming that others in this forum are just a ignorant as you.

Like I said before. I have no interest is engaging you in any discussion, so please stop behaving like a crazy monkey behind my back.

To buy a Malaysia property, you will need to put in sizable down payment as interest rate in MY is a lot higher than in Singapore. So it will not be worth while if one need to take up 70% loan for a Malaysia property.

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 10:45

proper-t

20-02-13, 11:06

I have already told you many times that I have no interest to engage you in any discussion because of your inability to absorb what you read, your bad habit of quoting others out of context.

In the below quote that you took from my discussion with fellow forummer about buying a RM2m landed property (I REPEAT, RM2,000,000) vs renting one, you simply highlight want you wish to read in RED while you are ignoring other important details which I am now highlighting for you in BLUE

As a landed property owner are you not aware about the importance of interest and big mortgage on landed property? Or are you just assuming that others in this forum are just a ignorant as you.

Like I said before. I have no interest is engaging you in any discussion, so please stop behaving like a crazy monkey behind my back.

And YET you still engage me...

Let me reproduce the entire post so that readers here can know what you are talking about. The forumer is asking whether to buy a Malaysian property to live in via renting out a SINGAPORE PC and its not RM2m, he mentioned RM1m is sufficient - you are advocating no to buying a malaysian property and instead to rent the Malaysian property, also rent out the SG PC and use the money instead to buy ANOTHER property in SG to rent out.

I said to buy a Msian property to live in using income from renting out a PC in Sg.....if rental is SGD4K this will be $10K RM..... enough to pay off $2M + RM loan.....of course you do not neck get a RM$2M + property, RM$1M can get you a decent Demi-D Cluster....over 3500Sqft built-up.

To buy a Malaysia property, you will need to put in sizable down payment as interest rate in MY is a lot higher than in Singapore. So it will not be worth while if one need to take up 70% loan for a Malaysia property.

I believe that rental market for Malaysia property is pretty lousy bad, so it might make more sense to actually park your money in another Singapore property and then use your rental to pay for your rent in Malaysia.

Advantage is that you are mobile and you can choose to return to Singapore anytime you want without having to worry about mortgage payment for your Malaysia property.

How do you reconcile your advice given to dare2 vs what you are advocating in you post below :

come 2020, I believe 20% of Singaporeans will own a FH landed property in Malaysia. Not many people will be bother about tiny overvalue terraces in Singapore.

In future I believe most people in Singapore will choose to live in compact apartments, and then own a weekend home in Malaysia.

Living landed property in Singapore (especially those with tiny land) will be deem as wasting money unless you belong to the elite group where money is secondary.

Cupcakes

20-02-13, 11:48

:47::47::47:

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 12:26

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 12:35

accurate or not? my prediction on Korea ? ( www.sglion.com)

N.Korea envoy warns S.Korea of "final destruction"
Published: 20 Feb 2013 0050 hrs South Korea faces "final destruction" if Seoul and its allies continue to push for tougher UN resolutions against North Korea's nuclear programme, Pyongyang warned Tuesday.

you wanna know what will happen next? what steps u need to take to benefit economically from coming future events?

actually i wanna tell, but after seeing many siaolang and iron teeth here SUAY me, i prefer to keep quiet liao la.

YOU WILL NEVER BE AT MY LEVEL. NEVER !

WOAHAHHEHEHE

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 12:39

accurate or not? my prediction on Korea ? ( www.sglion.com)

you wanna know what will happen next? what steps u need to take to benefit economically from coming future events?

actually i wanna tell, but after seeing many siaolang and iron teeth here SUAY me, i prefer to keep quiet liao la.

YOU WILL NEVER BE AT MY LEVEL. NEVER !

WOAHAHHEHEHE

but i may just change my mind if enough brothers here praise me that I AM VERY HANDSOME.

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 12:41

but i may just change my mind if enough brothers here praise me that I AM VERY HANDSOME.

sisters praise no use, becos in real life, many sisters already find me handsome liao. so must be brothers to praise me then can count hor.

WOAHAHAHHEH

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 12:51

sisters praise no use, becos in real life, many sisters already find me handsome liao. so must be brothers to praise me then can count hor.

WOAHAHAHHEH

As a jeweler in my family business, I understand the danger of not being able to value an investment like a diamond.

It is very dangerous if one overvalued and overpaid for a gemstone. Try taking a diamond to pawn at the pawn shop.

WOAHAHEHEHHEHEHEHE

Ringo33

20-02-13, 12:54

As a jeweler in my family business, I understand the danger of not being able to value an investment like a diamond.

It is very dangerous if one overvalued and overpaid for a gemstone. Try taking a diamond to pawn at the pawn shop.

WOAHAHEHEHHEHEHEHE

sometime diamond is better to leave it unpolished

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 13:24

sometime diamond is better to leave it unpolished

WOW WOW WOW I AM IMPRESSED ! THIS IS LITERARY CORRECT !

buttercarp

20-02-13, 13:31

You're right, but the problem is Singapore has no more new freehold landed property, whereas the government can create 1-2 million units of 99 yr leasehold new condos and HDB flats over the next 20 years.

Scarcity retains value.

Still got lah.
Pavilion Park is FH new landed house.
Luxus Hills is new 999 years landed house.
The Springside is also new FH landed house.

buttercarp

20-02-13, 13:54

sometime diamond is better to leave it unpolished

Unpolished diamond got no serial number, right?
So if stolen then hard to recover.

hutsutau

20-02-13, 14:08

Still got lah.
Pavilion Park is FH new landed house.
Luxus Hills is new 999 years landed house.
The Springside is also new FH landed house.
springside is 2.6 mil now for a place so far away from town

hutsutau

20-02-13, 14:30

springside is 2.6 mil now for a place so far away from town

''

Over the past decade, GCB prices have grown at a compounded annual growth rate of 15 per cent. This compares with 10 per cent for overall landed homes and 4 per cent for non-landed homes.''
time for a correction?

Ringo33

20-02-13, 15:46

''

Over the past decade, GCB prices have grown at a compounded annual growth rate of 15 per cent. This compares with 10 per cent for overall landed homes and 4 per cent for non-landed homes.''
time for a correction?
If you stretch that last decade to 15-16 years your compounded growth rate will look very difference.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-06a7.pdf

Also do consider what I wrote in the other thread.

As I have mentioned earlier that tracking landed property price index is not as straight forward as condo because many time, old landed property are being bought and then tear down for rebuilding before its being sold. While the transaction profit/loss capture by URA doesnt include the cost of A&A or rebuilding.

Here is a simple way to check if the so-call "profit" is inclusive on remodeling cost.

Step 1 - Identify the address of the property and locate it using onemap
Step 2 - Click Land Lot view option on onemap and copy down the land lot number
Step 3 - Do a search on HERE (http://spring.ura.gov.sg/dcd/eservices/devregister/edrMain.cfm) using the land lot number option e.g MK12 1234 (exclude the '-' and '0' in front)

If there is any major work done, there should be a record of the permission granted. For example

PROPOSED RECONSTRUCTION OF EXISTING 2-STOREY SEMI-DETACHED HOUSE

PROPOSED ADDITIONS & ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING 2-STOREY INTERMEDIATE TERRACE

LAND SUBDIVISION INTO 2 PLOTS AT ?????

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 15:48

''

Over the past decade, GCB prices have grown at a compounded annual growth rate of 15 per cent. This compares with 10 per cent for overall landed homes and 4 per cent for non-landed homes.''
time for a correction?

iPhone tried to sell expensive but became the victim of their own success, when there's too many of it, people start to shun it.

Condos are a good example. Too many launches, too much supply coming on-stream.

It has become no different from HDB flats. Some HDB flats like the DBSS even look like private condos. In fact, many DBSS look better than condos and are built to a highly quality.

luzman

20-02-13, 16:06

This was posted by that forumer. IF you are not convinced, please question the thread starter himself in his thread as he is the one who is making the assertation.

I provide the link below :

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16809

If you can successfully argue against him and show conclusively that what he is asserting is not true, please come back here and enlighten all of the readers in this thread. I, myself, will be very interested to know the outcome.
Well, it is not my style or belief to just quote someone from the forum and thinks everything is true and correct because we never really understand if anyone who makes some claims or the other do have self interest in supporting those statement. It is my belief that if there is any statement one is going to make or claim, if there is not supporting data or evidence, treat it as noise or some will like to say" take it with a pinch of salt"...

So, I just ignore statement that are make believe..unless you can proof to me if are right

luzman

20-02-13, 16:10

iPhone tried to sell expensive but became the victim of their own success, when there's too many of it, people start to shun it.

Condos are a good example. Too many launches, too much supply coming on-stream.

It has become no different from HDB flats. Some HDB flats like the DBSS even look like private condos. In fact, many DBSS look better than condos and are built to a highly quality.
Not exactly correct to compare.. Properties is considered an asset in some sense... Phones are not... I don't mind holding many condos but not many phones..

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 16:13

I am enjoying every single minute of my stay here in this forum :) Very provoking thoughts and good thinking by brothers and sisters here.

blackjack21trader

20-02-13, 16:16

"Seek not the cover of a book, but the inner beauty of thy minds."

- wise words by BJ21T

The beauty of the minds is the most handsome man or woman in spirit. A man poor in economic but beautiful in spirit is more handsome than a rich man poor in spirit but great on covers.

Ringo33

20-02-13, 16:34

wise one has spoken...

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16897

lajia

20-02-13, 16:41

proper-t

20-02-13, 16:48

Well, it is not my style or belief to just quote someone from the forum and thinks everything is true and correct because we never really understand if anyone who makes some claims or the other do have self interest in supporting those statement. It is my belief that if there is any statement one is going to make or claim, if there is not supporting data or evidence, treat it as noise or some will like to say" take it with a pinch of salt"...

So, I just ignore statement that are make believe..unless you can proof to me if are right

Well said, I brought it up as an example of the thinking of some forumers here. I hope the TS of what I quoted is reading.

luzman

20-02-13, 16:50

Far or near is relativity...if u work in upper Thomson area and your parent stay there, is this near or far?? If u stay in orchard and your work place is in pasir ris, is this near or far? :p
I don't agree with this argument. When we are talking about near or far.. It has to be a reference to town or city centre and not work place. Property discussion is all about the centre of action and never about your work place. I am sure you will prefer to be living in town and work in pasir ris rather than living in pasir ris and works in town, don't u?

hutsutau

20-02-13, 16:57

I don't agree with this argument. When we are talking about near or far.. It has to be a reference to town or city centre and not work place. Property discussion is all about the centre of action and never about your work place. I am sure you will prefer to be living in town and work in pasir ris rather than living in pasir ris and works in town, don't u?

if you work in pasir ris , you won't live in town where it is more expensive right?

luzman

20-02-13, 17:02

if you work in pasir ris , you won't live in town where it is more expensive right?
If I can owe a town property, y not? Who cares where I work... Doesn't matter as u can take transport or drive... I don't see an issue

sgbuyer

20-02-13, 17:04

If you stretch that last decade to 15-16 years your compounded growth rate will look very difference.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-06a7.pdf

Also do consider what I wrote in the other thread.

Your chart is interesting, it shows that all the housing categories move together in the same direction, up or down. :D

danguard

20-02-13, 18:19

Your chart is interesting, it shows that all the housing categories move together in the same direction, up or down. :D

Was thinking of the same as well - however might not hold through for future projections wat with further cooling measures potentially targeting specific segments if it comes to that

electron

20-02-13, 18:26

Your chart is interesting, it shows that all the housing categories move together in the same direction, up or down. :D
What I found interesting is that the various segments deviate as the market moves up, and the gaps between them are generally the widest at the peak. However, when the market falls, they all fall back to roughly the same percentile. Applies to the 1996, 2008 and current cycles.

Ringo33

20-02-13, 18:44

What I found interesting is that the various segments deviate as the market moves up, and the gaps between them are generally the widest at the peak. However, when the market falls, they all fall back to roughly the same percentile. Applies to the 1996, 2008 and current cycles.
you pick up a very important point. If you notice, during the 97 crisis, all the landed property indexes were all way above condo and apartment index line and gap widening in between them, and after the crisis hit, there is a major crash for landed property, which fell by almost 90 points. What is goes to show is there is a wide disparity between price and value.

And interestingly same pattern is developing right now.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/787/propertyindex.jpg

dtrax

20-02-13, 18:58

Let me complete the pic for u guys, the run up is indeed scary mary:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg

Ringo33

20-02-13, 20:49

Let me complete the pic for u guys, the run up is indeed scary mary:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg

indeed scary mary.....t

Ringo33

20-02-13, 21:03

proud owner

20-02-13, 21:24

my opinion is, one day, they might change their classification. For GCB and semi-d, the land is likely bigger than builtup hence, using psf on the land size is still ok. but imagine for terrace, the land size is small and if the plot ratio allows, they can do A&A on those single storey and then built up to 3.5 storey high but measuing them on land size doesn't make sense anymore...

hence, classification needs to be changed to reflect the correct situation. :2cents:

terrace, cluster housing and condo should be on same measuring terms, that is on their builtup area.
:2cents:

there are many Semi Ds with land 2300 sqft ...built up 4000 sqft
or land 4000 sqft and built up 7000 sqft ...

hardly any land left separating the side that is not attached ...

what i believe BJ21 is saying ... is that those ...built to the max of it land is at risk ...

inter terrace on the other hand has not separation between neighbours ..
so building up is ok

but so semi Ds to build on most part of its land ..leaving very little garden / back yards etc is at risk .. cos no one wants to buy those semis ...if they dont need a garden then they can buy an inter terrace ..

people buy semis or detached for its land space ... a garden a pool a back yard ..lots of greenery ...

if a semi uses up all its land .. it loses its charm and loses a big chunk of buyers ..

myself... i prefer a nice big garden for the kids to run around ..

if i buy .. i will buy one with unused land ..for garden and play ground

otherwise i buy a terrace

proud owner

20-02-13, 21:30

hutsutau

20-02-13, 21:32

indeed scary mary.....t
the most scary part is the detached market is not as safe as what some people portray it to be. Regardless of the land scarcity in sg, what goes up must come down

proud owner

20-02-13, 21:33

if you work in pasir ris , you won't live in town where it is more expensive right?

then again

if you can afford to live in Orchard ... the work that you are doing at Pasir Ris cant possibly pay you that well to live in D10 ya ?

or am i wrong ?

Ringo33

20-02-13, 22:23

the most scary part is the detached market is not as safe as what some people portray it to be. Regardless of the land scarcity in sg, what goes up must come down

I remember the difficulties my ex boss went through during the 97 crisis. At the time, he was holding to 3 GCB, and I believe one was bought during the peak. And when the crisis hit, the first thing that hit him was cashflow, during crisis, banks will suddenly start tightening their credit facilities , asking for loan top up and collateral etc. And the problem with GCB is that looking for tenant is also damn difficult and costly because any tenants who can afford to 20-30K rental will demand everything to be perfect.

I still remember that time he will always use his secretary as a shield to play hide and seek with bankers or entertaining bankers in private clubs etc.

lajia

20-02-13, 23:28

far or near with reference to town is your definition and i dont mean it is wrong. to me, even if i can afford to live in town, i would not want to because everything is expensive, traffic jam, parking also expensive, hawker food limited, etc etc....im not use to that kind of lifestyle.
:p

I don't agree with this argument. When we are talking about near or far.. It has to be a reference to town or city centre and not work place. Property discussion is all about the centre of action and never about your work place. I am sure you will prefer to be living in town and work in pasir ris rather than living in pasir ris and works in town, don't u?

Ringo33

21-02-13, 01:45

far or near with reference to town is your definition and i dont mean it is wrong. to me, even if i can afford to live in town, i would not want to because everything is expensive, traffic jam, parking also expensive, hawker food limited, etc etc....im not use to that kind of lifestyle.
:p

I would imaging that if you can afford to live in town, then you shouldnt fine it expensive. I am sure if you ask any Johorian they will tell you that living anywhere in Singapore is expensive.

avo7007

21-02-13, 07:46

I think when the bubble burst this time, I think the drop might not be as bad as 97, but the impact could be worst for some who bought during the peak as they will be hit by both falling prices as well as SSD.

When the sh*t hits the fan, the government would probably take out the SSD and other cooling measures.:2cents:

Shanhz

21-02-13, 08:09

you pick up a very important point. If you notice, during the 97 crisis, all the landed property indexes were all way above condo and apartment index line and gap widening in between them, and after the crisis hit, there is a major crash for landed property, which fell by almost 90 points. What is goes to show is there is a wide disparity between price and value.

And interestingly same pattern is developing right now.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/787/propertyindex.jpg

so this chart shows that there is greater volatility in detached than condos..best type of housing to speculate on? :D

Ringo33

21-02-13, 08:10

When the sh*t hits the fan, the government would probably take out the SSD and other cooling measures.:2cents:

that will only benefit those who buy after the announcement, not before. if they do try to rescue those earlier buyers, next time CM will have no effective.

Shanhz

21-02-13, 08:12

I remember the difficulties my ex boss went through during the 97 crisis. At the time, he was holding to 3 GCB, and I believe one was bought during the peak. And when the crisis hit, the first thing that hit him was cashflow, during crisis, banks will suddenly start tightening their credit facilities , asking for loan top up and collateral etc. And the problem with GCB is that looking for tenant is also damn difficult and costly because any tenants who can afford to 20-30K rental will demand everything to be perfect.

I still remember that time he will always use his secretary as a shield to play hide and seek with bankers or entertaining bankers in private clubs etc.

quoting my ex boss on the other extreme. last crisis he sold his semi de at huge loss. i can't rem the numbers, but something like he sold at 1.5 (buying price was something like 2m). then he top up some cash and bot a bungalow at 3m. today the bungalow is 10m, but his old semi de definitely din enjoy this kind of absolute return.

lajia

21-02-13, 08:57

this is nonsensical and pardon me but i can't help but to disagree with you. doesn't mean that you stay in private property and you will find a $20 lunch everyday cheap.
if you go indonesia, will u think everywhere is cheap?? affordability and whether you find it cheap or expensive, is totally different things.

I am sure if there is any promotion for LV bag for eg, you would go for it and rather buy it without any promotion right?
You can afford, but doesn't mean you would be happy to pay a higher price!
so if I can find a bowl of noodle at S$3.5 in Redhill food court, why should i be happy to pay for the same thing for $6 in ION food court??
So if I stay in orchard road or RV, then i will not find the $6 noodle expensive??

What nonsense is this? Anyway, enough said, I'm not going into this with u...:) :2cents:

....
I would imaging that if you can afford to live in town, then you shouldnt fine it expensive. I am sure if you ask any Johorian they will tell you that living anywhere in Singapore is expensive.

proper-t

21-02-13, 09:11

wise one has spoken...

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=16897

Excerpt from article:

"Price is the amount you pay for something. Value is what it really worth.

Supposedly you sell a bowl of laksa with the best ingredients and a special recipe to a rich man at $50.

He says, “I’m not buying.”

Can he afford it? Yes, of course.

Why doesn’t he pay for it? Because it’s not worth it."

I would imaging that if you can afford to live in town, then you shouldnt fine it expensive. I am sure if you ask any Johorian they will tell you that living anywhere in Singapore is expensive.

Huh ?????????

Ringo33

22-02-13, 07:41

this is nonsensical and pardon me but i can't help but to disagree with you. doesn't mean that you stay in private property and you will find a $20 lunch everyday cheap.
if you go indonesia, will u think everywhere is cheap?? affordability and whether you find it cheap or expensive, is totally different things.

I am sure if there is any promotion for LV bag for eg, you would go for it and rather buy it without any promotion right?
You can afford, but doesn't mean you would be happy to pay a higher price!
so if I can find a bowl of noodle at S$3.5 in Redhill food court, why should i be happy to pay for the same thing for $6 in ION food court??
So if I stay in orchard road or RV, then i will not find the $6 noodle expensive??

What nonsense is this? Anyway, enough said, I'm not going into this with u...:) :2cents:

....

1) you talk about living in town not pvt pty, those are different thing.
2) I believe when you said if You can afford to live in town you mean buying a property there rather than than living in the city. Those are different thing.
3) cheap or expensive depend on what you perceive as value. 20 lunch sound expensive in OCR but could be value for money if it's food in a nice restaurant in marina bay sands
4) LV never do sale
5) if you are living in town why waste time going from say orchard to red hill just to save tat 2.50 in noodle? Having said tat living in town doesn't men you can only eat in town

proper-t

22-02-13, 08:35

5) if you are living in town why waste time going from say orchard to red hill just to save tat 2.50 in noodle? Having said tat living in town doesn't men you can only eat in town

So are you saying that just because he doesn't want to waste time, then he doesn't think its expensive.

I suppose you are applying the same kind of 'logic' as this statement below:

I would imaging that if you can afford to live in town, then you shouldnt fine it expensive. I am sure if you ask any Johorian they will tell you that living anywhere in Singapore is expensive.

lajia

22-02-13, 08:39

:) :) :) :)

1) you talk about living in town not pvt pty, those are different thing.
2) I believe when you said if You can afford to live in town you mean buying a property there rather than than living in the city. Those are different thing.
3) cheap or expensive depend on what you perceive as value. 20 lunch sound expensive in OCR but could be value for money if it's food in a nice restaurant in marina bay sands
4) LV never do sale
5) if you are living in town why waste time going from say orchard to red hill just to save tat 2.50 in noodle? Having said tat living in town doesn't men you can only eat in town

Ringo33

22-02-13, 15:49

you pick up a very important point. If you notice, during the 97 crisis, all the landed property indexes were all way above condo and apartment index line and gap widening in between them, and after the crisis hit, there is a major crash for landed property, which fell by almost 90 points. What is goes to show is there is a wide disparity between price and value.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/787/propertyindex.jpg

Better watch out, Economy is not doing well, pap not doing well, Interest rate rising, boleh land is opening up, very soon those owner of landless landed property will realize that you are holding on to a big fat and hot potato where no one want to buy or rent.

What goes up must come down, the faster you rise the harder you fall.

hutsutau

22-02-13, 16:19

hutsutau

22-02-13, 16:21

19 CAMDEN PARK 23-Mar-05 $7,800,000
19 CAMDEN PARK 20-Jan-13 $25,000,000
Same house close to 20 mil profit

18 Yarwood Ave 14 Jan 00 $7,200,000
18 Yarwood Ave 04-Jan-13 $21,980,000

hutsutau

22-02-13, 16:23

18 Yarwood Ave 14 Jan 00 $7,200,000
18 Yarwood Ave 04-Jan-13 $21,980,000
202A LORNIE ROAD 15-Jun-07 $7,500,000
202A Lornie Road 11-Jan-12 $16,500,000

hutsutau

22-02-13, 16:25

202A LORNIE ROAD 15-Jun-07 $7,500,000
202A Lornie Road 11-Jan-12 $16,500,000
just 5 yearsand 9 mil profit

68 BINJAI PARK 13-Nov-09 $15,850,000
68 BINJAI PARK 27-Mar-12 $31,000,000.

proper-t

22-02-13, 16:43

Better watch out, Economy is not doing well, pap not doing well, Interest rate rising, boleh land is opening up, very soon those owner of landless landed property will realize that you are holding on to a big fat and hot potato where no one want to buy or rent.

What goes up must come down, the faster you rise the harder you fall.

Now I have some inkling of why he continually thinks that landed will crash. He is of the opinion that landed owners depend on rich foreigners to rescue them when it is common knowledge that foreigners are restricted from buying landed unless they obtain approval.

Perhaps prices are so overly inflated tat the landed owners holding to the hot potatos needs to depend on rich foreigners to come rescue them.

Jia lat Liao

But it is also not surprising when someone has difficulty in comprehending the difference between price and value :

5) if you are living in town why waste time going from say orchard to red hill just to save tat 2.50 in noodle? Having said tat living in town doesn't men you can only eat in town

So are you saying that just because he doesn't want to waste time, then he doesn't think its expensive.

I suppose you are applying the same kind of 'logic' as this statement below:

I would imaging that if you can afford to live in town, then you shouldnt fine it expensive. I am sure if you ask any Johorian they will tell you that living anywhere in Singapore is expensive.

sgbuyer

22-02-13, 17:32

Now I have some inkling of why he continually thinks that landed will crash. He is of the opinion that landed owners depend on rich foreigners to rescue them when it is common knowledge that foreigners are restricted from buying landed unless they obtain approval.

But it is also not surprising when someone has difficulty in comprehending the difference between price and value :

You need a serious recession to crash landed. But in the event of a serious recession, not just landed, but the entire property market will crash.

hutsutau

22-02-13, 17:37

You need a serious recession to crash landed. But in the event of a serious recession, not just landed, but the entire property market will crash.

THe landed market will crash more than the rest because it has outperformed the rest of the market

sgbuyer

22-02-13, 17:41

THe landed market will crash more than the rest because it has outperformed the rest of the market

Of course, the higher it goes, the more it crashes, this is the law of nature. The same applies to condos, the downside will be 40% to 50% if there is a recession.

MLP

22-02-13, 19:53

I beg to differ. Whether the property will crash or not depends very much on supply and demand. We know very well that supply of landed property houses are very limited but the current demand for landed property houses is much higher than the limited supply. Furthermore, Singapore has about 30000 cash rich people becoming new citizens every year. Assuming 10% of these new citizens will buy landed properties (some even buy more than 1 landed property), then I am afraid your dream of crashing the landed propery market will not materialise.

Don't forget that our government has already said they are prepared to loosen some cooling measures to prevent property market crashes. Cooling measures are government's weapons to make sure our property market remains stable. If these cooling measures are relaxed, then people will rush in to buy. That will offset any negative impact. Unless there is a major event such as Japan goes to war against China, I strongly doubt that there is any crashes of landed property market. Only time will tell...

THe landed market will crash more than the rest because it has outperformed the rest of the market

sgbuyer

22-02-13, 20:24

I beg to differ. Whether the property will crash or not depends very much on supply and demand. We know very well that supply of landed property houses are very limited but the current demand for landed property houses is much higher than the limited supply. Furthermore, Singapore has about 30000 cash rich people becoming new citizens every year. Assuming 10% of these new citizens will buy landed properties (some even buy more than 1 landed property), then I am afraid your dream of crashing the landed propery market will not materialise.

Don't forget that our government has already said they are prepared to loosen some cooling measures to prevent property market crashes. Cooling measures are government's weapons to make sure our property market remains stable. If these cooling measures are relaxed, then people will rush in to buy. That will offset any negative impact. Unless there is a major event such as Japan goes to war against China, I strongly doubt that there is any crashes of landed property market. Only time will tell...

There's gona to be 200k units over the next 4 years. The government is telling people to be patient but most buyers can't wait. Of course, by the time the 200k units are all build, it will be a glut.

MLP

22-02-13, 20:35

Hey, we are talking about landed properties here...:tsk-tsk:

There's gona to be 200k units over the next 4 years. The government is telling people to be patient but most buyers can't wait. Of course, by the time the 200k units are all build, it will be a glut.

Ringo33

22-02-13, 21:11

I beg to differ. Whether the property will crash or not depends very much on supply and demand. We know very well that supply of landed property houses are very limited but the current demand for landed property houses is much higher than the limited supply. Furthermore, Singapore has about 30000 cash rich people becoming new citizens every year. Assuming 10% of these new citizens will buy landed properties (some even buy more than 1 landed property), then I am afraid your dream of crashing the landed propery market will not materialise.

Don't forget that our government has already said they are prepared to loosen some cooling measures to prevent property market crashes. Cooling measures are government's weapons to make sure our property market remains stable. If these cooling measures are relaxed, then people will rush in to buy. That will offset any negative impact. Unless there is a major event such as Japan goes to war against China, I strongly doubt that there is any crashes of landed property market. Only time will tell...

Any explanation for previous crashes? noticed how quickly detached houses plunge down, follow by semi D and terrace?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg

MLP

22-02-13, 22:07

Why did you show the same chart again? Haven't I answered you in that thread already? :doh:

Any explanation for previous crashes? noticed how quickly detached houses plunge down, follow by semi D and terrace?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg

Ringo33

22-02-13, 22:24

Why did you show the same chart again? Haven't I answered you in that thread already? :doh:

Because your expanation doesn't make much sense

1) you are saying landed won't crash because of current demand. What does current demand got to do with future?

2) you assuming 30000 nc are cash rich? Say who?

3) you are assuming nc are immune to crisis and makin them sound like they are central bank ready to bail out.

4) did our government prefer to have a unstable property market during the past few crisis?

5) assuming interest rate rises to 3-4% how will removing cooling measure help owners who are overly leverage?

MLP

22-02-13, 22:34

I think your assumptions are all wrong. What I am saying is that you must look at the Supply and Demand -> very simple economy theory. Just tell me what the current situation of landed property market is from the supply and demand viewpoint. Is the demand or the supply higher?

DO NOT underestimate those cash rich new citizens. They can pay millions in cold cash. Believe me, there are many such people around in Singapore.

Because your expanation doesn't make much sense

1) you are saying landed won't crash because of current demand. What does current demand got to do with future?

2) you assuming 30000 nc are cash rich? Say who?

3) you are assuming nc are immune to crisis and makin them sound like they are central bank ready to bail out.

4) did our government prefer to have a unstable property market during the past few crisis?

5) assuming interest rate rises to 3-4% how will removing cooling measure help owners who are overly leverage?

Ringo33

22-02-13, 22:56

I think your assumptions are all wrong. What I am saying is that you must look at the Supply and Demand -> very simple economy theory. Just tell me what the current situation of landed property market is from the supply and demand viewpoint. Is the demand or the supply higher?

DO NOT underestimate those cash rich new citizens. They can pay millions in cold cash. Believe me, there are many such people around in Singapore.

You are not getting what I am asking you. Supply is always a constant except for strata and sentosa. So why did it crash in 97 when the year e prices when up te roof? Obviously there were more demand then supply, same as today.

I don't doubt you but tat doesnt sound like a sustainable aren't to me because it's like a age of musical chair.

Never under estimate te rich, they are very big gambler

Ringo33

22-02-13, 23:25

19 CAMDEN PARK 23-Mar-05 $7,800,000
19 CAMDEN PARK 20-Jan-13 $25,000,000
Same house close to 20 mil profit

Did a check. I believe the original plot was sub divided into 3 plots.

MLP

22-02-13, 23:25

First of all, you can forget about 1997 now as current situations are totally different from 1997. I think it is no point for you to keep referring to that event.

Do you know that this government likes to attract rich people only very selectively to settle down in Singapore? Do you know how many rich new citizens were brought in since 2006? Do you know that majority of our ministers and top civil servants are staying in landed properties? Do you think they want to see their property prices to crash?

Unlike 1997, the government now has many ammunition to prevent a property market crash. Like I said before, unless there is a major event like China and Japan go to war over disputed islands or PAP government is voted out of parliament, then property market can go free fall. Otherwise only time will tell and you can tan gu gu...

You are not getting what I am asking you. Supply is always a constant except for strata and sentosa. So why did it crash in 97 when the year e prices when up te roof? Obviously there were more demand then supply, same as today.

I don't doubt you but tat doesnt sound like a sustainable aren't to me because it's like a age of musical chair.

Never under estimate te rich, they are very big gambler

Ringo33

22-02-13, 23:29

First of all, you can forget about 1997 now as current situations are totally different from 1997. I think it is no point for you to keep referring to that event.

Do you know that this government likes to attract rich people only very selectively to settle down in Singapore? Do you know how many rich new citizens were brought in since 2006? Do you know that majority of our ministers and top civil servants are staying in landed properties? Do you think they want to see their property prices to crash?

Unlike 1997, the government now has many ammunition to prevent a property market crash. Like I said before, unless there is a major event like China and Japan go to war over disputed islands or PAP government is voted out of parliament, then property market can go free fall. Otherwise only time will tell and you can tan gu gu...

No diff lah. Only diff was tat the rich before was indo now china. But governent now are more selective making I harder to even grant pr to rich foreigner.

People with money are global citizen their money will go where there are opportunity. No different.

Ringo33

22-02-13, 23:37

18 Yarwood Ave 14 Jan 00 $7,200,000
18 Yarwood Ave 04-Jan-13 $21,980,000

This one they did a rebuild of 2 storey bungalow with swimming pool

MLP

22-02-13, 23:41

But rich people do like to buy properties especially in Singapore. That is the difference...:beats-me-man:

No diff lah. Only diff was tat the rich before was indo now china. But governent now are more selective making I harder to even grant pr to rich foreigner.

People with money are global citizen their money will go where there are opportunity. No different.

Ringo33

22-02-13, 23:44

just 5 yearsand 9 mil profit

68 BINJAI PARK 13-Nov-09 $15,850,000
68 BINJAI PARK 27-Mar-12 $31,000,000.

2010 they did a rebuilding of a 2 storey detached with a basement and a swimming pool.

Ringo33

22-02-13, 23:59

202A LORNIE ROAD 15-Jun-07 $7,500,000
202A Lornie Road 11-Jan-12 $16,500,000

07 transaction a little dodgy leh. 7.5m for 19100 sqft land.

proud owner

23-02-13, 00:15

07 transaction a little dodgy leh. 7.5m for 19100 sqft land.

possible

i have viewed a GCB in 07 at Leedon 23000 sqft land for 8 ish mio neg

Ringo33

23-02-13, 02:32

possible

i have viewed a GCB in 07 at Leedon 23000 sqft land for 8 ish mio neg

202 and 202a lornie road was involved in some family dispute involving the late father in law of mp foo. Search under Wendy chan and you will se. So the 07 transaction most likely is a inter family transaction

lajia

23-02-13, 07:24

dont argue with some idiots as it will drag u down...this one not i say one...:)

someone say FT come here to buy landed and govt need to set restriction on them buying landed, this is also an assumption but now seem like no longer valid.
someone also say the supply is constant, but i see no report saying that landed supply is constant, are we not talking about landed?

i am also not sure if someone has experience that 97 crash as he do not know the nature and cause of it so, no point argue on it, you are on the different page...:)

:2cents: :2cents:

I think your assumptions are all wrong. What I am saying is that you must look at the Supply and Demand -> very simple economy theory. Just tell me what the current situation of landed property market is from the supply and demand viewpoint. Is the demand or the supply higher?

DO NOT underestimate those cash rich new citizens. They can pay millions in cold cash. Believe me, there are many such people around in Singapore.

Ringo33

23-02-13, 07:44

dont argue with some idiots as it will drag u down...this one not i say one...:)

someone say FT come here to buy landed and govt need to set restriction on them buying landed, this is also an assumption but now seem like no longer valid.
someone also say the supply is constant, but i see no report saying that landed supply is constant, are we not talking about landed?

i am also not sure if someone has experience that 97 crash as he do not know the nature and cause of it so, no point argue on it, you are on the different page...:)

:2cents: :2cents:

One will first need to study our history in order to foresee what will happen in future

One will need throw out ones self interest in order to understand the importance of keeping our sovereign land for deserving Singaporeans only.

One will need to study past government action to understand that government does not help greedy and risky investor

One will need to understand that falling property prices doesnt make our land less sovereign.

hutsutau

23-02-13, 08:44

07 transaction a little dodgy leh. 7.5m for 19100 sqft land.

Lornie road area is 1 class lower than bukit timah area.

hutsutau

23-02-13, 09:00

202 and 202a lornie road was involved in some family dispute involving the late father in law of mp foo. Search under Wendy chan and you will se. So the 07 transaction most likely is a inter family transaction

The house involved is both 202 and 202a or just 202 ? 202A is the 1 that is visible when you pass by the area and the land is slightly elevated

Ringo33

23-02-13, 10:11

The house involved is both 202 and 202a or just 202 ? 202A is the 1 that is visible when you pass by the area and the land is slightly elevated

Both unit share the same entrance. I think one unit is for the family and the other is for Wendy chan who is the daughter from another women

Shanhz

23-02-13, 19:17

just 5 yearsand 9 mil profit

68 BINJAI PARK 13-Nov-09 $15,850,000
68 BINJAI PARK 27-Mar-12 $31,000,000.

for pple who can afford 16m in the first place, 9m is probably just small change.

Ringo33

23-02-13, 21:03

for pple who can afford 16m in the first place, 9m is probably just small change.

2010 the previous owner did a rebuilding of a 2 storey detached with a basement and a swimming pool. So the profit will be much lower.

hutsutau

23-02-13, 21:53

2010 the previous owner did a rebuilding of a 2 storey detached with a basement and a swimming pool. So the profit will be much lower.
The differences between the 2 transactions is about 16mil. How much can the construction of the house costs? 3-4mil?

proper-t

27-02-13, 13:14

One will first need to study our history in order to foresee what will happen in future

One will need throw out ones self interest in order to understand the importance of keeping our sovereign land for deserving Singaporeans only.

One will need to study past government action to understand that government does not help greedy and risky investor

One will need to understand that falling property prices doesnt make our land less sovereign.

Posting a chart, drawing some circles and focusing on just a single event to justify his assertion does not make a person a good history student. It only demonstrates how self serving that person is.

Trying to rely on patriotic gestures makes such self serving actions even more laughable. If we really want to protect our sovereign rights to property in Singapore, shouldn't the focus be then on HDB. This is the main segment which the bulk of Singaporeans rely on for housing and which is currently conditionally opened to PRs (which are foreigners) to buy.

Is your patriotic fervour not fanned by this ? Why are you only hung up on landed?

Extracted below is some research from people who actually study the property cycles in its entirety:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/proper-t/downturns_zps4dc8df7c.jpg

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b566/proper-t/Peaks_zps9110116d.jpg

There are 4 significant cycles in Singapore's history. For some cycles, landed peaked the most whilst for others, non-landed was the highest. Just relying on the 97 crash is not looking at the whole picture & begs to question the intention of the person relying on it.

What he did was to look at the upturns and downturns in each cycle and to average it out. The historical trends are clear to see:

For landed, during the upturns, it went up on average by 238% vs 211% for non-landed.
During the downturns, it went down by 29.8% vs 33.9% for non-landed.

If you were buying a property for the long term and intend to hold through several cycles, what would be your preferred choice?

Ringo33

27-02-13, 16:48

lajia

27-02-13, 17:45

Someone already pointed this to u and yet u never want to listen and keep talking nonsense...what large quantum?? So u talking about GCB??a terrace or semi-d can range from 1.5mil to as high as 9mil or even more. A condo can also be in that range....so dont buy landed and dont buy condo or dont buy anything?
... can you be more specific before going on and on? What quantum are u talking about now? This will make your talk more meaningful.
And what low yield u talking about? Which district? Buy how much and rental how much? Show what chart? Everything so general. Do u talk about yield if u Buy for own stay?

So it will dropped harder right, so let the NC buy lor...rite?

Anyone who is thinking of buying landed property should take a hard look at the price index chart instead of getting yourself confuse by meaningless tables which are created to blur your vision and to give you the false impression that you will be able to catch the bottom and peak of the property cycle.

Due to its large quantum and low yield, if you make one wrong move, you entire life saving could possibly be wipe out.

With the new property tax target on landed property, landed property owner should be prepare to pay "maintenance fee" to government.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/787/propertyindex.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8491119713_d433249926_c.jpg

proper-t

27-02-13, 17:47

Anyone who is thinking of buying landed property should take a hard look at the price index chart instead of getting yourself confuse by meaningless tables which are created to blur your vision and to give you the false impression that you will be able to catch the bottom and peak of the property cycle.

Due to its large quantum and low yield, if you make one wrong move, you entire life saving could possibly be wipe out.

With the new property tax target on landed property, landed property owner should be prepare to pay "maintenance fee" to government.

This is the umpteenth time you have posted these charts. Something new coupled with an intelligent statement or if its asking too much, a common sense remark would be a refreshing change.

FYI, the tables are derived from the same data that was used to plot the price index chart but its not surprising that some people may deem it confusing if they cannot even differentiate between price and value and think that landed owners depend on rich foreigners to support them.

Does the new property tax changes only apply to landed ? What about high end luxury apts in CCR?

Ringo33

27-02-13, 18:05

Someone already pointed this to u and yet u never want to listen and keep talking nonsense...what large quantum?? So u talking about GCB??a terrace or semi-d can range from 1.5mil to as high as 9mil or even more. A condo can also be in that range....so dont buy landed and dont buy condo or dont buy anything?
... can you be more specific before going on and on? What quantum are u talking about now? This will make your talk more meaningful.
And what low yield u talking about? Which district? Buy how much and rental how much? Show what chart? Everything so general. Do u talk about yield if u Buy for own stay?

So it will dropped harder right, so let the NC buy lor...rite?

owning landed property is like driving a bus around town. No point keep telling everyone that bus can hold 40 people and its cheaper than car because it got more empty seats.

Rental yield for landed is pretty obvious. $1000psf to buy, $1.5psf to rent. With new property tax and potential rising interest rate, those taking 80% mortgage to buy landed property will be fried.

Again, dont waste time looking at meaningless table that is meant to confuse you. Only a price index chart speaks the truth and give you a complete picture of whats happening.

lajia

27-02-13, 18:28

答非所问，语无论次。。。enough said. :47:

owning landed property is like driving a bus around town. No point keep telling everyone that bus can hold 40 people and its cheaper than car because it got more empty seats.

Rental yield for landed is pretty obvious. $1000psf to buy, $1.5psf to rent. With new property tax and potential rising interest rate, those taking 80% mortgage to buy landed property will be fried.

Again, dont waste time looking at meaningless table that is meant to confuse you. Only a price index chart speaks the truth and give you a complete picture of whats happening.

proper-t

27-02-13, 18:37

owning landed property is like driving a bus around town. No point keep telling everyone that bus can hold 40 people and its cheaper than car because it got more empty seats.

Rental yield for landed is pretty obvious. $1000psf to buy, $1.5psf to rent. With new property tax and potential rising interest rate, those taking 80% mortgage to buy landed property will be fried.

Again, dont waste time looking at meaningless table that is meant to confuse you. Only a price index chart speaks the truth and give you a complete picture of whats happening.

This is a change but its seems like its taking a turn for the worse as the content hardly makes any sense.

First : silly analogies - People buy different types of vehicles according to their needs and their perception of value. There are also MPVs and SUVs to choose from too. Comparing landed to a bus just proves that there is certainly a great difficulty on poster's part in comprehending the difference between price and value.

Secondly, another statement that doesn't make sense (btw, someone used to think that the new property tax changes is only for landed). Property tax is computed based on annual values which is based on estimated annual rents. If you are saying that rents are low (1.5psf) for landed, wouldn't that translate to a lower annual value and hence lower property tax? How does it compare to a high yielding luxury apt?

Just because you are confused doesn't mean that the readers are about to bring themselves down to your level. The message from the table is simple. Take some time to digest.

lajia

27-02-13, 18:49

Talking about rental yield, cluster has one of the best rental yield if u have check. Since u have taken one of the worst yield i will show u one of the better ones...
13k/mth purchase at 3.7mil. Yield=4.2%
And one of those terrace, bought 1.6mil, 5k/mth, yield=3.6%

There are more...

owning landed property is like driving a bus around town. No point keep telling everyone that bus can hold 40 people and its cheaper than car because it got more empty seats.

Rental yield for landed is pretty obvious. $1000psf to buy, $1.5psf to rent. With new property tax and potential rising interest rate, those taking 80% mortgage to buy landed property will be fried.

Again, dont waste time looking at meaningless table that is meant to confuse you. Only a price index chart speaks the truth and give you a complete picture of whats happening.

Ringo33

27-02-13, 19:16

Pinball

27-02-13, 19:24

aiyo, you all can argue here until the khaw comes home and still not conclusion lah.

simple.

bro ringo33 talks down landed because he wants to buy land at a lower price to build some houses.

bro proper-t and lajia talk up landed because they are vested in landed.

both sides have their points, both got blind spots.

personally i think when the river rises, all boats will rise. when the river ebbs all boats will sink. landed, condo, apt, flat, nothing escapes the moving water line lah.

importantly, is singapore sinking or rising? u all argue here and there about properties in singapore but the most important part of it is the river! no not talking about the singapore river which bro bj21 loves so much but you smarties should get my point.

WOHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

if you want to prove your point, make sure got head and tail lah or else it will be like your word vs mine. whats the point right?

Rysk

27-02-13, 19:31

lajia

27-02-13, 19:32

whether u are vested or what, this is what we are trying to say....only if you got time to read.:o anyway,...i learn something. Thanks.

personally i think when the river rises, all boats will rise. when the river ebbs all boats will sink. landed, condo, apt, flat, nothing escapes the moving water line lah.

WOHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

lajia

27-02-13, 19:34

thank you...at least it is from u if not ppl say i vested want to talk up the market...for what??? we only say when we see ppl anyhow say, not because we are vested, at least for me...:D

My fren bought a resale cluster house comes with tenancy @ $6.8k per mth for $2.08m..... So yield is about 3.9%

Ringo33

27-02-13, 21:46

My fren bought a resale cluster house comes with tenancy @ $6.8k per mth for $2.08m..... So yield is about 3.9%
very typical of 99LH cluster housing. Maintenance is pretty high though, easily set aside $500-600 per month. Problem with LH cluster is that the relatively good yield is only good to cover the depreciation of land lease.

Take hillcrest villa for example, prices level hasnt really got up much.
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-and-analysis/landed?p=hillcrest-villa

Pinball

28-02-13, 05:00

we attack, but there is no point in attacking. we defend, but there is no point in defending.

there is nothing to attack, nothing to defend. everything just in our own minds. the biggest thing is our pride lah.

thank you...at least it is from u if not ppl say i vested want to talk up the market...for what??? we only say when we see ppl anyhow say, not because we are vested, at least for me...:D

Ringo33

28-02-13, 07:50

another myth which you will often hear in this forum is exaggerating the profit of landed property. Take this case for example.

68 BINJAI PARK 13-Nov-09 $15,850,000
68 BINJAI PARK 27-Mar-12 $31,000,000.

Landed property owner will tell you that this owner made 16-17m profit in 5 years etc on the 20,000sqft GCB.

What they will not tell you is how much money has been spend to redo the entire estate.

http://www.greenmark.sg/property-detail.php?id=432

http://www.greenmark.sg/uploads/buildings/images/432/GM653_68_Binjai_Park.jpg

Developer: Mr George Lim
Architect: Designshop.Architects LLP
Structural Engineer: MSE Consultants Pte Ltd
M & E Engineer: HY M & E Consultancy Services Pte Ltd
Landscape Consultant: Amozonia Landscape
Quality Surveyor: 1MH and Associates
Main Contractor: As-Built Pte Ltd
ESD Consultant: G-Energy Global Pte Ltd

Project Description:

Proposed erection of 2 storey detached house with basement and swimming pool on Lot 99978L Mk16 at 68 Binjai Park, with site area of 1,285.2 m2 and a GFA of 1,333.46 m2.
Green Features:
Good building orientation and cross ventilation.
Double glazing and external roller shade to minimise heat gain to building.
Sunpath analysis and passive design strategies to optimise building orientation and indoor thermal comfort.
Energy efficient air-conditioning system and LED lighting.
Home automation system with energy monitoring devices.
PV technologies with system capacity of 50.29 kWp.
Extensive greenery provision with auto drip irrigation system and rain sensors.
Rainwater harvesting system and stormwater management system.
Non-chemical treatment for swimming pool.

proper-t

28-02-13, 09:11

Selective info doesn't prove a thing. Anybody can also do the same to show the exact opposite of what you are claiming. You need to do better than this weak attempt.

Case in point -

72 Frankel Avenue - bought in Mar/Apr 2010 for approx $3.2m
Left it in original condition and didn't spend a cent on any reno or A&A/reconstruction.

Sold in Apr 2012 for $4.34m

Gross profit = $1.14m just for holding.

bullman

28-02-13, 10:41

Ringo33

28-02-13, 11:10

Hi Buddy,

Based on a super exagerated rebuild cost of $350 psf because he used the best in everything, compared to the market price of $250 psf. The profit margin is still over 10 M in 5 years.

No good enuff for you? :sleep:
Your estimate of 350psf is indeed very exaggerated, its like tell me you can produce a Rolls Royce as cheaply as a Nissan.

350psf is the average cost use for mass market condo, for high end condo you will need probably increase that to around $500psf. And this is based on developer cost, where they have the economic of scale in terms of materials sourcing as well as distribution of fixed cost.

for GCB like this, be prepare to pay top dollars for customized and imported fittings. The kitchen alone will probably be able to buy you a HDB flat.

bullman

28-02-13, 11:17

Your estimate of 350psf is indeed very exaggerated, its like tell me you can produce a Rolls Royce as cheaply as a Nissan.

350psf is the average cost use for mass market condo, for high end condo you will need probably increase that to around $500psf. And this is based on developer cost, where they have the economic of scale in terms of materials sourcing as well as distribution of fixed cost.

for GCB like this, be prepare to pay top dollars for customized and imported fittings. The kitchen alone will probably be able to buy you a HDB flat.

Omg. It really exposes your ignorance in landed construction. I will leave it open to the floor to critique on our comments so as to avoid a pointless and unnecessary argument.