View Full Version : Being a Landlord vs Salaried Job
Which is more stable? Let's assess and review in today's societal context of 2012.
1. Tenancy usually runs 2 years; Salaried Job - people often change jobs in one year or even less!
2. Tenant places 2 months deposit, 2 months notice for termination; Salaried Job - 6 months probation, 2 weeks notice, if retrenched, immediate!
3. Tenant seldom disturbs you; Salaried Job - boss calls you even after office hours! Urgent this urgent that, everything urgent.
4. Tenant if good, takes good care of your asset; Salaried Job - boss may treat you like dog instead of an asset, and pass you over for promotion; your performance still need to be assessed and reviewed.
5. Tenancy rates rise in tandem with the economy; Salaried Job - your pay rise (if any) depends on way more factors than just the economy...
6. Your tenanted asset brings you income throughout the 99 years (LH) or forever (FH) for your loved ones; You - your working life probably max 50 years! :D
So in summary, perhaps I should stick to being a landlord rather than constantly looking for a full-time salaried job...? :doh:
(but some will ask: eh, if don't have job, how to buy house and be a landlord in the first place ah?) :p
Of course being a landlord is better dude!
It really depends how much nett rental income per month you need. Landlord of fully-paid up properties will be quite comfortable with excess even after deducting monthly expenditure for one's expected lifestyle. I gathered that has to be at least $5-6mil based on a conservative yield of 3% to have a reasonable lifestyle.
Which is more stable? Let's assess and review in today's societal context of 2012.
1. Tenancy usually runs 2 years; Salaried Job - people often change jobs in one year or even less!
2. Tenant places 2 months deposit, 2 months notice for termination; Salaried Job - 6 months probation, 2 weeks notice, if retrenched, immediate!
3. Tenant seldom disturbs you; Salaried Job - boss calls you even after office hours! Urgent this urgent that, everything urgent.
4. Tenant if good, takes good care of your asset; Salaried Job - boss may treat you like dog instead of an asset, and pass you over for promotion; your performance still need to be assessed and reviewed.
5. Tenancy rates rise in tandem with the economy; Salaried Job - your pay rise (if any) depends on way more factors than just the economy...
6. Your tenanted asset brings you income throughout the 99 years (LH) or forever (FH) for your loved ones; You - your working life probably max 50 years! :D
So in summary, perhaps I should stick to being a landlord rather than constantly looking for a full-time salaried job...? :doh:
(but some will ask: eh, if don't have job, how to buy house and be a landlord in the first place ah?) :p
first and foremost, u must have certain asset value to be land load...
and proven from the past generation that the asset appreciate over the time in Singapore limited land context.
In rental, you need to do your balance sheet annually , minus the maintenance, taxes, interest return, etc what bring to your pocket is the true disposal income...then match those annually income of a salaried income..
I would preferred to be a land lord in any general sense/ ;)
My ambition is to be a full time landlord. :o
My ambition is to be a full time landlord. :o
i think as long as can live off passive income (be it rental or dividend or coupons or royalties etc) will be the best. having to rely on a job under the mercy of your boss and/or economy is never safe...
for me, i aim to build up a low beta defensive portfolio that yields 5-7% p.a. but won't think i'm suited to being a landlord (as it's tax payable and is too complicated for my simple mind). :o
Best of both worlds...be a condo manager. That is the same as a salaried landlord :D
buttercarp
01-08-12, 11:58
I will choose to be a landlord.
Better still if can do free lance job as well, for additional income as well as can stay in touch with the workforce.
Being a landlord requires capital startup while salaried worker can enter a job with no cash in his pocket (not going into the debate about how one can get a property with no cash, etc...). If you live off the rental income, you must first ensure that your property is fully paid for otherwise a significant proportion of your rental goes into servicing the mortgage loan for that property and in today's context, that leaves you with practically too little for comfort. :sleep:
I like my salaried job. I am the BOSS..:D
Your feet is planted on the ground ...can't build a stable yearly income via castles built on borrowed money. Capital gains perhaps.
Being a landlord requires capital startup while salaried worker can enter a job with no cash in his pocket (not going into the debate about how one can get a property with no cash, etc...). If you live off the rental income, you must first ensure that your property is fully paid for otherwise a significant proportion of your rental goes into servicing the mortgage loan for that property and in today's context, that leaves you with practically too little for comfort. :sleep:
I like my salaried job. I am the BOSS..:D
no wonder i cant be the boss.... i'm limfc and not fclim :D
landlord must put up with tenant nonsense leh... this spoilt that spoilt, everything can also be urgent call landlord at night...
some tenant also wreck the landlord's precious asset and then just MIA (missing-in-action).... 2 months deposit also not enuff to undo the harm...
all things considered though, it's of course always better to be landlord la, coz the tenant helping to pay for the apt/condo mah, so a little 'suffering' is to be expected... :D
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 14:12
Judging from under-supply of HDB + SPRs restriction of renting out, next 10y will be best to rent out your HDB, yield could be 7-8% with capital appreciation 4% per year :2cents:
Net return could reach 12% pa
Thats why I say... even for mortgaged property, stability is no less than the 'stability' of a paid fulltime job in todays economic climate. Or should I say 'stable' full time job no more stable than 'mortgaged property' generating passive income.
HDB yield high yes ... but if FT tap turned off... who will rent sia?
HDB yield high yes ... but if FT tap turned off... who will rent sia?
Mr B and gang will rent from you. :D
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 14:56
HDB yield high yes ... but if FT tap turned off... who will rent sia?
Very few FT rent HDB, more like those imported SPRs, EP holders and new SCs ... combine could be 500k, divide by 3 also you have 150k families, how come our HDB sublet only has 6,900? Lots of sublets not registered I think.
With the high inflation of 5% and low mortgage int of 1%, it will make cents to borrow some of, even if u can afford full payment in cash, which then effectively negates the effect that inflation has on one.
@azeo... indeed, there r those who still believe there will be significant price drop n renting at the moment while waiting and craning their necks...
Would u rather be a PIMP or a PROS%ITUTE....:D:D:D:D
Well, can always provide value added service like concierge, room service and housekeeping. :D
ikan bilis
01-08-12, 18:45
i saw the same post on cna side... wanted to reply to the thread but did not.... bj21 replied to it...
http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/showthread.php?126419-Advantages-of-property.-Why-buy-property-is-better.
what i wanted to write was....
this is not a good comparison... landlord vs salaried job....
a better comparison would be:
- if you already own some business and having some extra fund of $1-2mil... would you expand your biz by employing more people or you put the $$ into property investment ??..
- which means invest into more workers or invest into properties....
:beats-me-man:
who go n copy n post elsewhere??
who go n copy n post elsewhere??
Ah teo....:D
I just wonder the agenda of copy a post from forum A to forum B ... anyway its gd at least it got some attn
Is plagiarism...and lack of substance...:p
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 21:52
i saw the same post on cna side... wanted to reply to the thread but did not.... bj21 replied to it...
http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/showthread.php?126419-Advantages-of-property.-Why-buy-property-is-better.
what i wanted to write was....
this is not a good comparison... landlord vs salaried job....
a better comparison would be:
- if you already own some business and having some extra fund of $1-2mil... would you expand your biz by employing more people or you put the $$ into property investment ??..
- which means invest into more workers or invest into properties....
:beats-me-man:
Good question. Under normal circumstances, without massive printing by central bank, you would want to put into biz to add value, to produce something to sell. However, when printing is rampant, inflation is high, easy money can be made by investing into non-productive stuff like properties as your debt is simply inflated away.
plagiarism? aiyo... wat for. not like cna forum posts more got freebies to receive...
High inflation, low interest... Best time to be landlord
Buy 2 properties, wait for price to double.... Eventually. Sell one and get the other free!:cheers4:
To retire on property, need to leverage on more than 1 property. At least 1 to keep for rental and the other is sell off to pay the mortgage for the other.:D who cares about 30yr loan when you've got plan to pay it off.
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 22:26
It is sad that BJ shares such an insightful analysis in CNA rather than here ... all the CNA Ah Bengs can understand meh?? This forum, though lacking in participation, is certainly of higher quality, I have learnt a lot from many seniors e.g. how to choose a unit, what is private placement, corp bond, CCR investment tips, HK market etc
He has basically 2 points, how to identity whether property price has gone beyond affordability and how to identify the return of property in REAL terms (i.e. after minus inflation)
For the 1st point I think a plot of monthly median family income including employer CPF staying in condos vs PPI from 2000 to 2011 is a good starting point
As for the 2nd point, I recently suggest that the return of Singapore HDB flats (factor in rental yield + cap appreciation) or OCR condos over the last 15y is pretty much similar to the return of gold in AUD and both has outperformed STI and CCR ... how long this will remain so is a big ?
:2cents:
It is still rather difficult to retire with two properties. Need about four properties given the lower rental yield these days.
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 22:32
It is still rather difficult to retire with two properties. Need about four properties given the lower rental yield these days.
may be one HDB, two RCR near MRT
Got to stay in one and rent out two. Is $6-7k net for two fully paid up properties sufficient for a couple per month?
may be one HDB, two RCR near MRT
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 22:42
Got to stay in one and rent out two. Is $6-7k net for two fully paid up properties sufficient for a couple per month?
obviously you need to supplement by fixed income from bonds and other investments e.g. ETF
Very few FT rent HDB, more like those imported SPRs, EP holders and new SCs ... combine could be 500k, divide by 3 also you have 150k families, how come our HDB sublet only has 6,900? Lots of sublets not registered I think.I once had 4 families of FTs, i.e. 8 of them in total wanting to rent my unit. So cannot just divide by 3. May have to divide by 5. Hmmm... that is still about 100k families. Minus about 50% who rents private properties, still have some 50k families. Suppose another 40k opt for room rental instead of whole unit rental, then we have about 10k. About right lor...Hmmm... very interesting numbers!!! :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
01-08-12, 23:08
I once had 4 families of FTs, i.e. 8 of them in total wanting to rent my unit. So cannot just divide by 3. May have to divide by 5. Hmmm... that is still about 100k families. Minus about 50% who rents private properties, still have some 50k families. Suppose another 40k opt for room rental instead of whole unit rental, then we have about 10k. About right lor...Hmmm... very interesting numbers!!! :rolleyes:
4 families with 8 ppl means 2 members per family right?
50% of them renting private properties, wah so rich ah? ... wouldn't that ratio too high?
Which is more stable? Let's assess and review in today's societal context of 2012.
1. Tenancy usually runs 2 years; Salaried Job - people often change jobs in one year or even less!
2. Tenant places 2 months deposit, 2 months notice for termination; Salaried Job - 6 months probation, 2 weeks notice, if retrenched, immediate!
3. Tenant seldom disturbs you; Salaried Job - boss calls you even after office hours! Urgent this urgent that, everything urgent.
4. Tenant if good, takes good care of your asset; Salaried Job - boss may treat you like dog instead of an asset, and pass you over for promotion; your performance still need to be assessed and reviewed.
5. Tenancy rates rise in tandem with the economy; Salaried Job - your pay rise (if any) depends on way more factors than just the economy...
6. Your tenanted asset brings you income throughout the 99 years (LH) or forever (FH) for your loved ones; You - your working life probably max 50 years! :D
So in summary, perhaps I should stick to being a landlord rather than constantly looking for a full-time salaried job...? :doh:
(but some will ask: eh, if don't have job, how to buy house and be a landlord in the first place ah?) :p
assumed its fully paid up.. on loan then landlord is as good as a man in debt that still need a JOB.
Landlord! Move to neighbouring msia to cut living expenses and cross into SG once in a while to look after the properties, settle stuffs with tenants :D
Landlord! Move to neighbouring msia to cut living expenses and cross into SG once in a while to look after the properties, settle stuffs with tenants :D
Hmm..it appears that not many people are happy enough in their jobs to want to continue working rather than sit around collecting rent..:D
Hmm..it appears that not many people are happy enough in their jobs to want to continue working rather than sit around collecting rent..:D
There's a different between choosing to work and having the work.
Having a passive income like rent allows one the luxury. I think all of us to aiming to achieve that.:cheers4:
It is always nice to have additional income especially passive ones other than active income from the JOB.
Hmm..it appears that not many people are happy enough in their jobs to want to continue working rather than sit around collecting rent..:D
It is always nice to have additional income especially passive ones other than active income from the JOB.
Sure. The question by TS is whether he should just collect rent instead of working as the rental income is sufficient for him to live on. He does not need to work.
If I am in his position, I will choose to work. I will probably take my time to find a work that I really like (haha.. maybe that is impossible). I will try many different kinds of jobs, even those manual ones.
There is no better feeling than knowing that you work because you want to, not because you have to, like what someone has pointed out.
Will engage in charitable work if one does not need any active income. Go travelling at a leisure pace and pay a visit to overseas' properties.
Hard to do but there sld be a good split between Dividend from Stocks, Coupon from Bonds/REITS, Rental from Properties and The Job. Eg 10/15/15/60% or 15/20/20/45%.
The idea is to not be totally dependent on any one source.
But of course these sources have their own features (your skill-set/time) and pros/cons (capital gain/loss, retrenchment).
moral of the story? do them all if u can!! haha... dont keep eggs in one sole basket. HAVE a job, and BE A LANDLORD and INVESTOR at the same time.
This has to look into the timeline.
Salaried job is a must for people below 50, to build up career and first pot of gold and seed money
But once has achieved financial freedom, just do what u like...
landlord : must have positive cash flow. some works, like looking for tenants, cleaning the place etc...
salaried job : must be You want to work and not u need to work.
Passive income : must have, dun eat into the coffin money
Ya, I think diversified portfolio is the best to sustain cashflow.
1) AUD Cash
2) Corp Bonds.
3) Div. paying equities
4) Real estate on leverage
This way, the real estate can be just waiting for capital appreciation as long as rental pay off the installment. The other 3 investments will generate the monthly cashflow you need for your living expenses.
BEST is to have another 2 below.
5) Salaried Job(for the social factor.. go to work to socialise..lol)
6) Small business to generate another stream of income.
@focus... guess we don try to do everything.... rembr recent sudden death of Mr Dennis ng. we must learn frm it...
@focus... guess we don try to do everything.... rembr recent sudden death of Mr Dennis ng. we must learn frm it...
Don't worry.. i'm not doing the last 2...
actually.. i will die even earlier...
I dont work ... and i dont exercise..
Sleep late... wake up late...
skip breakfast, have supper.
Yes...after dennis departure.. i feel really have to start some exercise..and also enjoy life more.
best is find a job that pay well (6~7k) but not so stressful and yet go go back on the dock. then have one property colect rent. buy some dividend counter.....
Geylang OKT
02-08-12, 17:24
I still prefer to be a geylang OKT :D
best is find a job that pay well (6~7k) but not so stressful and yet go go back on the dock. then have one property colect rent. buy some dividend counter.....
I can't find a decent or well pay job :o so currently a poor part time worker but full time landlord of my 2 fully paid private properties .... :D :D :D !
Got a friend whose father has a shophouses t holland village bought long time ago Just one is good enough. Monthly rental at least $25k. :D
I still prefer to be a geylang OKT :D
Welcome back! :cheers5:
Don't worry.. i'm not doing the last 2...
actually.. i will die even earlier...
I dont work ... and i dont exercise..
Sleep late... wake up late...
skip breakfast, have supper.
Yes...after dennis departure.. i feel really have to start some exercise..and also enjoy life more.
I have that feeling to start exercise is very compulsive the first few days, and linearly die down as time passed.
Hope to start something that we enjoy ...:D
I can't find a decent or well pay job :o so currently a poor part time worker but full time landlord of my 2 fully paid private properties .... :D :D :D !
How did you get to this stage? Can share?
Chiongz and slog super hard in the past?
I have that feeling to start exercise is very compulsive the first few days, and linearly die down as time passed.
Hope to start something that we enjoy ...:D
TCSS here also exercise. Exercise fingers and brain. Esp when replying to certain pple posting... really can kill lots of brain cells.
How did you get to this stage? Can share?
Chiongz and slog super hard in the past?
Yap..work hard :flaming-head:, play less :banghead: and save more :2cents: . Save as much as you can and wait for the best shot. Once crisis, cash is the king...buy in and hold :D :D :D .
but how come cant find job now? too picky right
but how come cant find job now? too picky right
In this real life, It's quite difficult to find a job when age reaches mid 40's leh..:banghead: !
guess what... me approaching 40 oso hard to find job liaozz.... *high five*
now I realise why some very experienced n high level go n be cabbie... subcontractor.... property agent etc after cant find job for some time. soon I expect to see U grads cleaning tables at foodcourts and hawker centres. I think some are already waiting tables at restaurants.
guess what... me approaching 40 oso hard to find job liaozz.... *high five*
Before 40 is still fine. Once you hit 40, no more jobhopper unless you have better offer else where.
---
WHAT shaped his thinking on retirement is what happened to his late father Liew Luen Pong, a lathe machinist, whom he pressured to retire at age 67. Eager and able to provide for him, Mr Liew and his brother persuaded their father's superior to forcibly retire him. A few years after, their father became senile, went into decline and died. It was, in retrospect, a "most unfilial" thing to do, he concludes.
"The moment you stop thinking or being interested in stuff, you fall off the cliff."
He thinks it is time to retire popular notions of retirement as the reward for a lifelong slog or shutting down after a certain chronicle age. "Why do people want to retire when they have gained so much human capital? I'm not going to waste my experience," he vows.
Retire not mean to stop brainstorming. You can do thing that you like...such as part time librarian, social worker...etc meh.
btw, I want to retire @ 55 leh...and travel the world and 7 seas...hahaha..:D :D :D !!!
I can't find a decent or well pay job :o so currently a poor part time worker but full time landlord of my 2 fully paid private properties .... :D :D :D !
bro "decent pay" is how de much ah?
Having a job not that bad, tcss during lunch/coffee breaks, staying relevant & keep the wealth creation engine running. If 1/4 of sporeans all become landlords & shake legs then more FT/FW are needed.:o
Travel the world and the 7 seas, Eurithmics our era.:cheers4:
guess what... me approaching 40 oso hard to find job liaozz.... *high five*
Before 40 is still fine. Once you hit 40, no more jobhopper unless you have better offer else where.
yup, fully agree... whether "up there" (director and above) or "down there" (engineer/acct exec and below) also difficult to hop after 40.
so, my target is try to 'chiong' to director level in next 5-8 yrs, then "hog" the position for another 5-10 years.
after that, hopefully saved enough moola to switch to something more interesting and more "stupid" like funding new promising pharma-techno ventures...
i believe human beings cannot retire fully one, else easily become senile and lose interest in life... then will just fade away...
phantom_opera
03-08-12, 10:38
now I realise why some very experienced n high level go n be cabbie... subcontractor.... property agent etc after cant find job for some time. soon I expect to see U grads cleaning tables at foodcourts and hawker centres. I think some are already waiting tables at restaurants.
If Singapore does not stay relevant to the world, Singapore will sooner or later become offshore tropical entertainment center for China i.e. Hainan Island II
Recently went to Bali (my 2nd trip after many years) ... Bedugul lake is full of buses carrying mainland Chinese .. no more peaceful no more cooling no more spiritual no more charm
:scared-4:
bro "decent pay" is how de much ah?
Having a job not that bad, tcss during lunch/coffee breaks, staying relevant & keep the wealth creation engine running. If 1/4 of sporeans all become landlords & shake legs then more FT/FW are needed.:o
Travel the world and the 7 seas, Eurithmics our era.:cheers4:
I m not picky...2-3k which is much much much lower than my previous pay:doh: !
Beside landlord & part time worker, I am still a part time share investor..hehehe. Isit consider a job too?
yup, fully agree... whether "up there" (director and above) or "down there" (engineer/acct exec and below) also difficult to hop after 40.
so, my target is try to 'chiong' to director level in next 5-8 yrs, then "hog" the position for another 5-10 years.
after that, hopefully saved enough moola to switch to something more interesting and more "stupid" like funding new promising pharma-techno ventures...
i believe human beings cannot retire fully one, else easily become senile and lose interest in life... then will just fade away...
Good one...go for semi retirement then :D .
Work 3 days rest 4 days go spa, golf, high tea, yoga tai tai lifestyle. :rolleyes:
I wish for bro azeo to quickly reach goal of fulltime landlord so I may see more beautiful pics of TOP soon projects...
Dont work scared senile... work, scared detrimental to mental well-being... then how!!!????
---
Mental well-being of working adults 13% lower than general
population
AsiaOne
Friday, Aug 03, 2012
SINGAPORE - The mental well-being of working adults in
Singapore is 13 per cent lower than the general population,
according to the Health Promotion Board (HPB) which
conducted a survey with 1,000 respondents.
Data from another survey also indicates that one in six working
adults in Singapore experiences a relatively high level of stress
compared to one in 10 non-working adults.
Results also found that 40 per cent of the 1,200 small- and
medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) HPB surveyed expressed an
intention to invest in the mental well-being of their employees –
even though three quarters of them recognise the benefits of
supporting and improving staff’s mental health.
To improve the mental well-being of Singapore?s workforce and
help employers do more to promote mental health at the
workplace, HPB is launching a new initiative called the
Workplace Mental Health Solution.
It will provide solutions at three levels – employee, management
and organisational.
Said Dr Amy Khor, Minister of State for Health and Manpower:
"Nearly 70 per cent of our population are in the workforce, many
of whom deal with stress every day as part of a typical fast-
paced urban lifestyle.
"HPB's Workplace Mental Health Solution offers a three-in-one
solution to help employees and employers boost mental health
at the workplace through accessible and affordable tools and
resources tailored separately for employees, managers and the
organisation as a whole.
"Companies will find much value in HPB?s Workplace Mental
Health Solution as it supports them in creating effective and
targeted programmes for their employees? well-being. This, in
turn, helps create a healthier, happier and invariably more
productive workforce."
[email protected]
phantom_opera
03-08-12, 22:11
A recent survey say the happiest working adults are those earning between 8k to 9k .... > 10k mostly are very stressed and unhappy
Allthepies
03-08-12, 22:21
A recent survey say the happiest working adults are those earning between 8k to 9k .... > 10k mostly are very stressed and unhappy
those most happy ones are those that no longer care how much they earn when working =) they work just for the fun of it.
those most happy ones are those that no longer care how much they earn when working =) they work just for the fun of it.
how true! Lice it, i mean Like it! :D
I wish for bro azeo to quickly reach goal of fulltime landlord so I may see more beautiful pics of TOP soon projects...
Thank you very much. :cheers4:
A recent survey say the happiest working adults are those earning between 8k to 9k .... > 10k mostly are very stressed and unhappy
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/
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