Genuine upgrader's worry

[mr funny]

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/...ry_573722.html

Sep 2, 2010

DREAM HOME

Genuine upgrader's worry


THE latest property policies reported on Tuesday ('Govt acts to curb speculators') will see the loan-to-value (LTV) limit adjusted from 80 per cent to 70 per cent for home buyers with existing housing loans.

The report quotes the Government as stating that the new policies are aimed at discouraging speculation in the property market, and genuine home buyers should not be affected.

I am a genuine home buyer and a potential HDB upgrader. I am a Singaporean whose dream is to work hard and improve my family's living standards.

I dream of upgrading to an executive condominium or private property one day, and I have saved enough for the 20 per cent down payment.

I am willing to sell my HDB flat and live in a new home.

So I counted the days to the launch of the new executive condominiums, which suit the sandwich class I belong to.

I almost realised my dream - until the latest changes to curb speculators.

The new policies do not help home owners like me who have an existing HDB housing loan to service.

For one thing, we must fork out 30 per cent in down payment to qualify for the 70 per cent LTV rate.

We are not speculators but we are being penalised in the Government's bid to stabilise the booming property market.

I was advised to sell my HDB flat first if I wanted to enjoy an 80 per cent loan rate. But with a one-year-old baby, where can I stay while the executive condominium is being built?

Besides, can selling our home first assure us of a unit at the executive condominium?

Genuine home upgraders like my family are being penalised and inconvenienced. I hope the authorities will consider home buyers in our position.

Tan Tien Li (Ms)

[Condorich]

Assuming current EC is priced at $700k

Old 20% rule = 5% cash (35K) + 15% CPF (105k) = 20% in total (140K)

New 30% rule = 10% cash (35k) + 20% CPF (105K) = 30% in total (140K)... the EC will have to be priced at $466k... for her purchasing power to remain the same.

From this, the policy makers are preparing for a worst case scenario of 33% drop in prices. But it is quite likely and the drop would be somewhere at mid point of 16% to 18%. 20% has been reported in the newspapers.

[devilplate]

Assuming current EC is priced at $700k

Old 20% rule = 5% cash (35K) + 15% CPF (105k) = 20% in total (140K)

New 30% rule = 10% cash (35k) + 20% CPF (105K) = 30% in total (140K)... the EC will have to be priced at $466k... for her purchasing power to remain the same.

From this, the policy makers are preparing for a worst case scenario of 33% drop in prices. But it is quite likely and the drop would be somewhere at mid point of 16% to 18%. 20% has been reported in the newspapers.

den how come after feb measure which reduce ltv from 90 to 80....price continue to increase?

wish life is so simple

[Condorich]

den how come after feb measure which reduce ltv from 90 to 80....price continue to increase?

wish life is so simple

yes... the equation on paper and the reality out there are not always in agreement.. that's why you need to add more measures or remove measures when things are not at the desired level.

The world out there is a very complex world.

[Douk]

Maybe she will thanks the government after 2-3 hrs...

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/...ry_573722.html

Sep 2, 2010

DREAM HOME

Genuine upgrader's worry


THE latest property policies reported on Tuesday ('Govt acts to curb speculators') will see the loan-to-value (LTV) limit adjusted from 80 per cent to 70 per cent for home buyers with existing housing loans.

The report quotes the Government as stating that the new policies are aimed at discouraging speculation in the property market, and genuine home buyers should not be affected.

I am a genuine home buyer and a potential HDB upgrader. I am a Singaporean whose dream is to work hard and improve my family's living standards.

I dream of upgrading to an executive condominium or private property one day, and I have saved enough for the 20 per cent down payment.

I am willing to sell my HDB flat and live in a new home.

So I counted the days to the launch of the new executive condominiums, which suit the sandwich class I belong to.

I almost realised my dream - until the latest changes to curb speculators.

The new policies do not help home owners like me who have an existing HDB housing loan to service.

For one thing, we must fork out 30 per cent in down payment to qualify for the 70 per cent LTV rate.

We are not speculators but we are being penalised in the Government's bid to stabilise the booming property market.

I was advised to sell my HDB flat first if I wanted to enjoy an 80 per cent loan rate. But with a one-year-old baby, where can I stay while the executive condominium is being built?

Besides, can selling our home first assure us of a unit at the executive condominium?

Genuine home upgraders like my family are being penalised and inconvenienced. I hope the authorities will consider home buyers in our position.

Tan Tien Li (Ms)

[Komo]

I guess miss tan is one typical young couple who dream of getting ec or condo within a few years of working (probably before 30 years old). haven't save enough or pay off current loan then ask garmen for help. want to be assured an ec somemore.

[jlrx]

den how come after feb measure which reduce ltv from 90 to 80....price continue to increase?

That's because of

PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.

Did the government listen to Mr. "No Longer Afford" below and reduce New Town HDB 3-room price from $16,400 back to $13,800 because Mr. "No Longer Afford" can "no longer afford"?

I wonder what happened to Mr. "No Longer Afford"?

[devilplate]

Ah Gong A used 30k to buy a HDB flat last time....

Ah Gong B put his 30k into FD and rent a HDB flat from govt at $30/mth

today, ah gong A HDB worth 400k while Ah gong B HDB rental goes up to $500/mth

[apple3]

Assuming current EC is priced at $700k

Old 20% rule = 5% cash (35K) + 15% CPF (105k) = 20% in total (140K)

New 30% rule = 10% cash (35k) + 20% CPF (105K) = 30% in total (140K)... the EC will have to be priced at $466k... for her purchasing power to remain the same.

From this, the policy makers are preparing for a worst case scenario of 33% drop in prices. But it is quite likely and the drop would be somewhere at mid point of 16% to 18%. 20% has been reported in the newspapers.

My guess is it won't exceed 10% drop. Some district won't even have any significant differences. Again, thats my views.

Huh.. People will be surprise how deep singaporean pocket was..

[proud owner]

My guess is it won't exceed 10% drop. Some district won't even have any significant differences. Again, thats my views.

Huh.. People will be surprise how deep singaporean pocket was..

i am sure singaporeans are rich ...

but if buyers dont hold back long enuff ..and start to push again ...

dont you think govt will come out with something even more innovative ?

or you think govt will 'Stop at 2" measures and thats it ?

i think mkt will fall ..by how much i am not sure .. but i see the need for prices to stabilise for a longer period ..( plateau ) ..

if after 3-6 mths and all start buying and pushing up prices again ..
then govt will have to take even stronger measures ..

by which time, who stands to lose out ? The rich ? the ave ? or the least privileged ?

[Lord Anus]

by describing herself as an "upgrader" means she is looking to "upgrade" from a HDB flat to an EC or a condo.

let us get some things straight first.

a HDB flat is a Need - that is, a roof over one's head, subsidised by the govt/taxpayers. the singapore govt and the HDB have really done a lot for our people, a roof over our heads is something that we will not be lacking, even if we were really really poor, the govt will ensure we get housed somewhere.

an EC or a condo is a Want. no doubt about that. nobody really needs a condo.

using food as an analogy: if you're hungry, the govt will assist in paying for a cheap well rounded nutritious meal, like economical rice, nasi padang or a basic western style 3 course meal. if you can afford economical rice, nasi padang for your entire family, you do not demand that the govt top up your food budget or impose price caps on luxury food so as to enable you to buy meals of sharks fin, abalone, foie gras, caviar and wagyu beef.

since when is upgrading from HDB to condo a god given right of singaporeans'? if you can afford to, fine. if you can't, why should the govt crash the private property market so that YOU can afford a condo? the govt has done (and is doing) its job well enough, that you can afford a HDB flat.

these whiners make me sick. you complain that you cannot afford a condo? is it the govt's fault? cannot afford BMW? govt's fault?

"what do you want? 3 meals in a hawker centre, food court, or a restaurant?"

[Condorich]

My guess is it won't exceed 10% drop. Some district won't even have any significant differences. Again, thats my views.

Huh.. People will be surprise how deep singaporean pocket was..

My views 3 to 5% is immediate.

5 to 10% is likely..

10 to 15% is not so likely

20 to 20% is very unlikely... but if voting results otherwise....upgraded to likely. Do you have a choice? They will win one lah.

These are in my views and average drop, exceptions do apply, say fire sale of 20% to 40% anytime, with or without measures.

[Wolverine23]

Correct.

by describing herself as an "upgrader" means she is looking to "upgrade" from a HDB flat to an EC or a condo.

let us get some things straight first.

a HDB flat is a Need - that is, a roof over one's head, subsidised by the govt/taxpayers. the singapore govt and the HDB have really done a lot for our people, a roof over our heads is something that we will not be lacking, even if we were really really poor, the govt will ensure we get housed somewhere.

an EC or a condo is a Want. no doubt about that. nobody really needs a condo.

using food as an analogy: if you're hungry, the govt will assist in paying for a cheap well rounded nutritious meal, like economical rice, nasi padang or a basic western style 3 course meal. if you can afford economical rice, nasi padang for your entire family, you do not demand that the govt top up your food budget or impose price caps on luxury food so as to enable you to buy meals of sharks fin, abalone, foie gras, caviar and wagyu beef.

since when is upgrading from HDB to condo a god given right of singaporeans'? if you can afford to, fine. if you can't, why should the govt crash the private property market so that YOU can afford a condo? the govt has done (and is doing) its job well enough, that you can afford a HDB flat.

these whiners make me sick. you complain that you cannot afford a condo? is it the govt's fault? cannot afford BMW? govt's fault?

"what do you want? 3 meals in a hawker centre, food court, or a restaurant?"

[mcmlxxvi]

by describing herself as an "upgrader" means she is looking to "upgrade" from a HDB flat to an EC or a condo.

let us get some things straight first.

a HDB flat is a Need - that is, a roof over one's head, subsidised by the govt/taxpayers. the singapore govt and the HDB have really done a lot for our people, a roof over our heads is something that we will not be lacking, even if we were really really poor, the govt will ensure we get housed somewhere.

an EC or a condo is a Want. no doubt about that. nobody really needs a condo.

using food as an analogy: if you're hungry, the govt will assist in paying for a cheap well rounded nutritious meal, like economical rice, nasi padang or a basic western style 3 course meal. if you can afford economical rice, nasi padang for your entire family, you do not demand that the govt top up your food budget or impose price caps on luxury food so as to enable you to buy meals of sharks fin, abalone, foie gras, caviar and wagyu beef.

since when is upgrading from HDB to condo a god given right of singaporeans'? if you can afford to, fine. if you can't, why should the govt crash the private property market so that YOU can afford a condo? the govt has done (and is doing) its job well enough, that you can afford a HDB flat.

these whiners make me sick. you complain that you cannot afford a condo? is it the govt's fault? cannot afford BMW? govt's fault?

"what do you want? 3 meals in a hawker centre, food court, or a restaurant?"

Well said! Balls to those so called self righteous piti seeking upgraders. Beggars still wanna make demands.

[august]

if 70% LTV is going to stop her, it means perhaps she shld relook her own finances

[august]

by describing herself as an "upgrader" means she is looking to "upgrade" from a HDB flat to an EC or a condo.

let us get some things straight first.

a HDB flat is a Need - that is, a roof over one's head, subsidised by the govt/taxpayers. the singapore govt and the HDB have really done a lot for our people, a roof over our heads is something that we will not be lacking, even if we were really really poor, the govt will ensure we get housed somewhere.

an EC or a condo is a Want. no doubt about that. nobody really needs a condo.

using food as an analogy: if you're hungry, the govt will assist in paying for a cheap well rounded nutritious meal, like economical rice, nasi padang or a basic western style 3 course meal. if you can afford economical rice, nasi padang for your entire family, you do not demand that the govt top up your food budget or impose price caps on luxury food so as to enable you to buy meals of sharks fin, abalone, foie gras, caviar and wagyu beef.

since when is upgrading from HDB to condo a god given right of singaporeans'? if you can afford to, fine. if you can't, why should the govt crash the private property market so that YOU can afford a condo? the govt has done (and is doing) its job well enough, that you can afford a HDB flat.

these whiners make me sick. you complain that you cannot afford a condo? is it the govt's fault? cannot afford BMW? govt's fault?

"what do you want? 3 meals in a hawker centre, food court, or a restaurant?"

are u that vivi babakissmama ???

[xebay11]

by describing herself as an "upgrader" means she is looking to "upgrade" from a HDB flat to an EC or a condo.

let us get some things straight first.

a HDB flat is a Need - that is, a roof over one's head, subsidised by the govt/taxpayers. the singapore govt and the HDB have really done a lot for our people, a roof over our heads is something that we will not be lacking, even if we were really really poor, the govt will ensure we get housed somewhere.

an EC or a condo is a Want. no doubt about that. nobody really needs a condo.

using food as an analogy: if you're hungry, the govt will assist in paying for a cheap well rounded nutritious meal, like economical rice, nasi padang or a basic western style 3 course meal. if you can afford economical rice, nasi padang for your entire family, you do not demand that the govt top up your food budget or impose price caps on luxury food so as to enable you to buy meals of sharks fin, abalone, foie gras, caviar and wagyu beef.

since when is upgrading from HDB to condo a god given right of singaporeans'? if you can afford to, fine. if you can't, why should the govt crash the private property market so that YOU can afford a condo? the govt has done (and is doing) its job well enough, that you can afford a HDB flat.

these whiners make me sick. you complain that you cannot afford a condo? is it the govt's fault? cannot afford BMW? govt's fault?

"what do you want? 3 meals in a hawker centre, food court, or a restaurant?"

My sentiments exactly.

What irked me most was this statement.

"I was advised to sell my HDB flat first if I wanted to enjoy an 80 per cent loan rate. But with a one-year-old baby, where can I stay while the executive condominium is being built?'

Want cheap, want low price, expect hand out and don't want to suffer a little inconvenience.

[devilplate]

10yrs ago, its quite a norm for married couples to stay with in-laws for a while after marriage....they will save up and den buy a HDB

BUT now things have changed......newly wed couples wud expect to have a flat NOW....5yrs later wud expect to upgrade to condo and afford a car....the more u spoon feed them....the worse it become.....give them an inch they demand a MILE

[rattydrama]

How to catch fire sales? All sapu by agents & associates or those big investors. So the average folks will have to pay market price.

My views 3 to 5% is immediate.

5 to 10% is likely..

10 to 15% is not so likely

20 to 20% is very unlikely... but if voting results otherwise....upgraded to likely. Do you have a choice? They will win one lah.

These are in my views and average drop, exceptions do apply, say fire sale of 20% to 40% anytime, with or without measures.

[devilplate]

How to catch fire sales? All sapu by agents & associates or those big investors. So the average folks will have to pay market price.

got some leftover which is 04-04, 10-04, 14-04 or ground flr facing rubbish dump

however, i wud expect genuine sellers to market their units at reasonable market price....shd be easy to find gd units at valuation price for the time being

[xebay11]

How to catch fire sales? All sapu by agents & associates or those big investors. So the average folks will have to pay market price.

True. So why not become agent too LOL!

[xebay11]

10yrs ago, its quite a norm for married couples to stay with in-laws for a while after marriage....they will save up and den buy a HDB

BUT now things have changed......newly wed couples wud expect to have a flat NOW....5yrs later wud expect to upgrade to condo and afford a car....the more u spoon feed them....the worse it become.....give them an inch they demand a MILE

Ubelievable yah? I come from reasonably good family background, my family never stayed in HDB before, even then I went the HDB route when I got married and lived with my parents in the first 4 years of marriage, including having a baby during that period, all this while waiting for my HDB. Now Ms Pampered can't even cope with that while waiting for her EC

[Wild Falcon]

If can't even foot 30% upfront payment and die die must leverage everything until 80%, then don't buy. Never ever buy beyond your means. Now interest rate is already so lo and if still cannot afford means cannot afford. Just live within your means - what's wrong with these people? If can, I think these guys will borrow 100% without thinking about the consequences.

[xebay11]

If can't even foot 30% upfront payment and die die must leverage everything until 80%, then don't buy. Never ever buy beyond your means. Now interest rate is already so lo and if still cannot afford means cannot afford. Just live within your means - what's wrong with these people? If can, I think these guys will borrow 100% without thinking about the consequences.

Can only tell Ms Tan 2 things:

1) Get a new job which pays higher or

2) Get a new husband, the current one definitely not earning enough.

Yeah now only one baby cannot afford, need help to buy EC only, wait till you get 2 or more babies, then you will see the expenses sky rocket with tuition and extra lessons, maid, bigger car etc. and then there is University education and more.

CMI means CMI stop dreaming. I gave up my dream of a hill top Bungalow with IR views, at Siglap Bank quite a few years ago LOL!

[august]

genuine upgraders, if u are indeed genuine there is nothing to worry!
the Consumer Housing Protection Scheme aka CHPS is here to help protect u from financial recklessness.

[apple3]

Ubelievable yah? I come from reasonably good family background, my family never stayed in HDB before, even then I went the HDB route when I got married and lived with my parents in the first 4 years of marriage, including having a baby during that period, all this while waiting for my HDB. Now Ms Pampered can't even cope with that while waiting for her EC

Actually, your case don't seem so bad to me. I mean is not as if you have been swallowing some bad medicine. Staying with parents is.. what you call it.. coolz.. especially I presume it a landed.

Ms Pampered is from xyz generation which is perfectly norm nowsaday.

[apple3]

This is one of the great posts.

But again, the silver lining is, such trend occur on young & developed country. And while I detest such whinner, I see it as a norm and not to be benchmark against older generation.

by describing herself as an "upgrader" means she is looking to "upgrade" from a HDB flat to an EC or a condo.

let us get some things straight first.

a HDB flat is a Need - that is, a roof over one's head, subsidised by the govt/taxpayers. the singapore govt and the HDB have really done a lot for our people, a roof over our heads is something that we will not be lacking, even if we were really really poor, the govt will ensure we get housed somewhere.

an EC or a condo is a Want. no doubt about that. nobody really needs a condo.

using food as an analogy: if you're hungry, the govt will assist in paying for a cheap well rounded nutritious meal, like economical rice, nasi padang or a basic western style 3 course meal. if you can afford economical rice, nasi padang for your entire family, you do not demand that the govt top up your food budget or impose price caps on luxury food so as to enable you to buy meals of sharks fin, abalone, foie gras, caviar and wagyu beef.

since when is upgrading from HDB to condo a god given right of singaporeans'? if you can afford to, fine. if you can't, why should the govt crash the private property market so that YOU can afford a condo? the govt has done (and is doing) its job well enough, that you can afford a HDB flat.

these whiners make me sick. you complain that you cannot afford a condo? is it the govt's fault? cannot afford BMW? govt's fault?

"what do you want? 3 meals in a hawker centre, food court, or a restaurant?"

[Condorich]

How to catch fire sales? All sapu by agents & associates or those big investors. So the average folks will have to pay market price.

Try bank auction, the only source available to non agents.

Agents work for agency house. Agency House will take a bite of the cherry if it is very very attractive to do so.

Next is to watch out for adverts in classifieds that says "closing soon", check them out.. not the cheapest but still worth a try.

[MGM Grand]

Anyway the prices of property now is very high, the government may have saved you from a bad decision to rush into a condo which you may end up having troubles supporting when the interest rates ultimately goes up.

My advise if you are upgrading and already have a roof over your head, you can be a little patient. Saving 30% or more and taking less loans is not a bad thing. Negative equity could be worse.


My 2 cents worth!

[ysyap]

Anyway the prices of property now is very high, the government may have saved you from a bad decision to rush into a condo which you may end up having troubles supporting when the interest rates ultimately goes up.

My advise if you are upgrading and already have a roof over your head, you can be a little patient. Saving 30% or more and taking less loans is not a bad thing. Negative equity could be worse.


My 2 cents worth!

As much as I agree with you that the govt probably might have saved some people from a bad decision to rush into a condo sale, there are still other very pressing and practical reasons to buy. These reasons include

1. Moving to somewhere either nearer to work or nearer to your parents who are taking care of your kids. Check out CTE (city) every weekday morning from 7am to 8am and PIE (Changi) from 6pm. If not moving house mean having to spend 2 hours in jam daily, 1hr in morning and 1hr in evening, then I'll still have to squeeze myself dry to move. . This would also cause undue stress and so cause deteriorating health. Not worth it in long run...

2. Moving to somewhere nearer to your preferred choice of primary school for your child. This one cannot wait... once the child hits 6, must get ready for pri sch registration. Cannot wait till property price drops then tell child don't go sch yet... (can however explore other options to help child enroll but all these options sure have other implications)

3. Stayed with in laws for some time le so only right to move out otherwise might give impression that we're living off them and that is not very nice...

4. If your inconsiderate neighbors are giving you so much problem that you are falling ill. Wiser to move and spend a bit more on house but less on medical bill.