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Thread: New Rules to Cool Property Market

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Hi Pal, hows your landed?

    About the new measure.. I share with you my thought.. only you huh..

    Let not talk about lengthy analogy or historical behaviour. Lets talk about feel.. feeling...

    I feel nothing much will be change.. only single digit differences.. thats is 1% to 9% differences in price. AND either way!

    hahahhahah...
    Hi apple3,

    You have a fantastic memory! And yes, I can still remember your great advice on landed properties.

    I totally agree with your sentiments. Too much liquidity in the market to affect prices in a big way, as long as rental demand and the macroeconomic landscape remains stable, prices will have some support. One key factor to look at in the near term is how much supply of TOP unsold stock is coming on board, and the severity of the next downturn.

    Anyway, cash is always king.

    How's your little grand daughter? Must be very cute!

  2. #392
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    garment cannot set rules like that. It cannot be applied to the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by cl0ver
    if demand to buy HDB resale will fall, what about rental?
    for those already owning private before the ruling, should you sell the HDB now to avoid future ruling, like cannot own both HDB and private at all?

    the catch for some is that if u sell your HDB now, you may never have the chance to buy it back again.......

  3. #393
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    I hope you have been enjoying and staying well at your new place.

    My grand-daughter seems to be the center of everything now. In fact, she is our everything, especially my wife, she has been taking care of her since my daughter-in-law back to work. And my son has been asking me will there be another incentive again if he "produce" another grandchild for us.

    Got a strange feeling about the baby bonus thingy. hahahha...


    Quote Originally Posted by new2mondrian
    Hi apple3,

    You have a fantastic memory! And yes, I can still remember your great advice on landed properties.

    I totally agree with your sentiments. Too much liquidity in the market to affect prices in a big way, as long as rental demand and the macroeconomic landscape remains stable, prices will have some support. One key factor to look at in the near term is how much supply of TOP unsold stock is coming on board, and the severity of the next downturn.

    Anyway, cash is always king.

    How's your little grand daughter? Must be very cute!

  4. #394
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    Prudent buyers won't buy now. They will wait and see for a while. Why cheong in crazily now when the whole island knows that the govt will pump in more punitive measures if property prices still continue to rise? It's like banging your head against a solid wall. Donch take on the govt once it has made its decision to cool prices


    My take is that with the latest measures, prices of mass market condos, mid tier and HDB resale will drop by 20% in the coming months.

  5. #395
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    if drops by 20%, during big game day, ticket with a cross to pay and pay will also drop ... imagine how many owners in signapore are HDB and mass mass pte pty owers...if thei assets are beoming smaller are they happy??

    same for those who have thier asset headlight forcefully and artifically made smaller...will they be happy.. they will vote to change their OKT straight..

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    I called my banker to make some enquiries and he reflected to me that there have been many genuine upgraders calling in with very difficult situations as a direct result of these new rulings.

    My question to the relevant authorities is this, 'If your initial objective (as published so widely in papers and even in PM's speech) is to curb housing speculations, then why are there so many genuine home buyers (not speculators) feeling the pain. Are these measures ultimately effective? Can we make adjustments to these measures of maybe, just maybe introduce other more effective measures. Thank you.
    genuine upgraders = % of total population 10, 100, 1,000, 100,000

    will it b a smaller nos to handle versus local marginal investors
    who has the statistics? gov't

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterng8
    if drops by 20%, during big game day, ticket with a cross to pay and pay will also drop ... imagine how many owners in signapore are HDB and mass mass pte pty owers...if thei assets are beoming smaller are they happy??

    same for those who have thier asset headlight forcefully and artifically made smaller...will they be happy.. they will vote to change their OKT straight..
    if you are caught in a position -staying in HDB (only 2 years MOP) plus 3 private properties/condos rented out with financing margin at 80% each ..what would you do?

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geylang OKT
    Prudent buyers won't buy now. They will wait and see for a while. Why cheong in crazily now when the whole island knows that the govt will pump in more punitive measures if property prices still continue to rise? It's like banging your head against a solid wall. Donch take on the govt once it has made its decision to cool prices


    My take is that with the latest measures, prices of mass market condos, mid tier and HDB resale will drop by 20% in the coming months.
    look at china and HK after the measures b4 u make such a comment

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geylang OKT
    Prudent buyers won't buy now. They will wait and see for a while. Why cheong in crazily now when the whole island knows that the govt will pump in more punitive measures if property prices still continue to rise? It's like banging your head against a solid wall. Donch take on the govt once it has made its decision to cool prices


    My take is that with the latest measures, prices of mass market condos, mid tier and HDB resale will drop by 20% in the coming months.
    that what u hope so that u can buy.....
    u r definitely firing from ur hip...why the demand for mass market condos grew so much?

    upgraders - if u can determine % of upgraders versus investors, then u will kno whether the prices of mass markets will drop

    who will fill the vacuum properties of those upgraders? rented out to
    FTs - talents can refer to those at hawker centres...no one wants to do those jobs plus every local family has average 1 child.

  10. #400
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    agree with devilplate...the prices shot up instead

  11. #401
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    in HK..another measure.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmonddd
    if you are caught in a position -staying in HDB (only 2 years MOP) plus 3 private properties/condos rented out with financing margin at 80% each ..what would you do?

    the bank screws up lo and later the owner will face problem if price drops..why? 80% loan dor so many property with mortagage xiao liao...bank where got do this type of business in singapore one..

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    I hope you have been enjoying and staying well at your new place.

    My grand-daughter seems to be the center of everything now. In fact, she is our everything, especially my wife, she has been taking care of her since my daughter-in-law back to work. And my son has been asking me will there be another incentive again if he "produce" another grandchild for us.

    Got a strange feeling about the baby bonus thingy. hahahha...
    Oh yes, we all love our new place. To my husband and myself, we would like our child to grow up in a hdb at least till he reaches maturity (maybe 18 years). And our little one loves it here too. Tonnes of kids to play with and chip bee gardens (with his favorite ice cream shop The Daily Scoop) being a 5 mins walk away.

    We are very thankful of the fact that we bought our place last year. Otherwise, it would have been extremely difficult to do so going forward. Cannot imagine selling off everything else in one shot.

    Actually the legislation should not have penalized genuine owner occupiers of hdb properties, in my personal viewpoint.

    As for the baby bonus for your son, I would have told him that the fact that you are helping him look after his child is the greatest bonus to him. He is indeed blessed to have such supportive parents. lots of my friends don't even have such parental support, and are forced to either stay at home (for the mom) for the first few years and survive on a single source of income; or to consider the infant care option in which the child is always falling sick.

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    The requirements for borrowers to prove sale of their existing property and even the fact that their potential buyers of their existing property had paid the stamp duty before the bank can loan them 80% is creating quite a stir amongst many genuine home buyers. Some experts (as I've read) have projected that sellers may therefore negotiate with their buyers for a longer duration instead of the typical 8 to 10 weeks before they hand over the keys. I am skeptical about this.


    While it may be true that sellers would probably start to negotiate longer durations like 14wks before handing the house over to the buyer, this system is designed for self destruction. The sellers extend the no. of wks because they are looking to secure another apartment to move in. However, when they look around, they become the buyers and their potential seller would also negotiate similar extension of no. of wks therefore after 14 wks, this poor guy still don't have house to stay because his newly bought house is not ready. This is a vicious cycle that the introduced measure creates. Therefore, asking for extension is not the solution to the problem. This problem was never an issue before 30 August 2010 because there is no need to show documents of sale for current property before bank would loan you $$. The demand for proof is so flawed.

    Just put measures in place to ensure that our current houses be sold within a certain duration after buying next property. Just tighten this measure by imposing fines on any such violations to solve the problem easily.. Doubtless to say, more work on the part of the relevant authorities.

    Many may easily argue that no $ so don't buy house la... As much as I agree with the saying but I would also add that if Singapore wants to advance in economy and attract FTs and foreign investments, we'll need locals to push the economy too otherwise we'll need so much FT and foreigners that singaporeans only occupy 30% of population. One of the ways for locals to push the economy is for a strong upgrading and constantly improving mentality. (Of course property upgrading is not directly indicative of a growing economy but it sure has its impact).

    In the past, if they can afford 20%, we encourage them to upgrade. Now, they must afford 30% then we encourage them to upgrade. Is there a cap? 6 months down the road, when 30% still don't work, then up the LTV to 50%? Where do we stop? We cannot expect everyone who aspires to upgrade to remain in HDB till the day they can pay 100% cash for condo or landed, can we? These guys, by not being able to upgrade, will also prevent poorer individuals a place in the highly coveted and subsidized HDB flats.

    I called my banker to make some enquiries and he reflected to me that there have been many genuine upgraders calling in with very difficult situations as a direct result of these new rulings.

    My question to the relevant authorities is this, 'If your initial objective (as published so widely in papers and even in PM's speech) is to curb housing speculations, then why are there so many genuine home buyers (not speculators) feeling the pain. Are these measures ultimately effective? Can we make adjustments to these measures of maybe, just maybe introduce other more effective measures. Thank you.
    I agree with you. The measures have a broad impact an all segment of the property market, whereas in the past, cooling measures target more at the speculators. The outcome of these measures are rather hard to see now, especially for the HDB resale market. Some would be buyers are not buying now, and on the hand, there are would be sellers not selling either. The HDB market, being the largest, or in fact the majority 70%, property segment in Singapore, would have a more or less impact to the private property segments, including the high end. Don't underestimate the upgraders, they are the backbone of the private property market in Singapore. The "just make it" buyers are significant enough to push or pull the market also. I guess for the next few months, the whole market will be relative quiet and most purchasers will just wait for the new equilibrium.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmonddd
    agree with devilplate...the prices shot up instead
    ...

  16. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfire
    I agree with you. The measures have a broad impact an all segment of the property market, whereas in the past, cooling measures target more at the speculators. The outcome of these measures are rather hard to see now, especially for the HDB resale market. Some would be buyers are not buying now, and on the hand, there are would be sellers not selling either. The HDB market, being the largest, or in fact the majority 70%, property segment in Singapore, would have a more or less impact to the private property segments, including the high end. Don't underestimate the upgraders, they are the backbone of the private property market in Singapore. The "just make it" buyers are significant enough to push or pull the market also. I guess for the next few months, the whole market will be relative quiet and most purchasers will just wait for the new equilibrium.
    yES, nEW pr and exiSting PR WILL bUY private

    existing HDB owner will not sell their HdB and it is going to be harder for them to go to private.

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashrich
    yES, nEW pr and exiSting PR WILL bUY private

    existing HDB owner will not sell their HdB and it is going to be harder for them to go to private.
    hopefully, tat will be the case ideally....

    i prefer to make $$ from PRs/foreigners rather den from our local mates

  18. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    hopefully, tat will be the case ideally....

    i prefer to make $$ from PRs/foreigners rather den from our local mates

    local dont offer good money at the same time , PR and FT come here to earn money...so must earn their money back..ha ha

  19. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    hopefully, tat will be the case ideally....

    i prefer to make $$ from PRs/foreigners rather den from our local mates
    Whack hard! Don't miss the chance. Golden window of 1 to 2 months only. Do it quickly.

  20. #410
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    Stand-off for a few months and see who blink first. I think sellers are not desperate with the low interest rate. So if sellers continue to hold on to their units, then fire sales are few and far between, then price correction will be minimal. And looking at the number of "investors" on the sideline, once price correct by 10%, I'm sure some kiasu investors will swoop in in droves

    The impact on mass/mid market condo is not so straightforward. The downside caused by reduced affordability of HDB upgraders may be cushioned by new buyers who are now lured into the private market with less transfer restrictions. For instance, PRs who have homes back home are now forced either to rent (keeping rental yields of HDB and mass/mid market condos high) or purchase a mass/mid market condo. The price gap between HDB and private will widen. It will be now more difficult for an upgrader to upgrade to a private condo. There is also a palpable "downgrading" trend - where retirees or baby boomers prefer to downgrade to HDB or move "upstream" while renting out their city-centre homes - taking out cash to travel around the world or simply to enjoy other aspects of life. They can't buy HDB anymore - and they will likely downgrade to "cheaper" condos in more quiet and rustic area. After all, when you are in your 20s, you go to Zouk to cheong every night. But when you reach your mid thirties, priorities tend to change and you may prefer to move away from the noisy city to more peaceful areas.

    On HDB, if I had an existing HDB flat and have met MOP and have sufficient cash, I will not sell it. Rental yields is going to be supernormal going forward. Therefore supply of HDB flat on sale will come down as well, the overall impact is unclear. Maybe slightly downwards but probably not a 40% crash. Bear in mind, once you sell your high-yielding HDB to upgrade to private, you may never be able to buy one again - it's a rare commodity. In fact, some of my friends who already own HDB and private are all saying "heng ah!" - I bought HDB before the new rules come into effect.

    For high-end with mostly foreign investors and speculators - these are our fair weather friends. Once rules and regulations change to the property market's disadvantage, they will be the first to run since they have no feelings or connections to Singapore which many of us call home. So the Wing Tai boss can tell the entire world that after the F1 race, foreigner speculators will start snapping up our "high-end" properties, he must be living in his own world. Just drive around Paterson or River Valley - what % of the newly completed properties are occupied? Most of them are unsold and developers are holding on to their units, praying for foreign specuvestors to rain on them. IRs have opened and F1 has happened for 2 years. Where are the foreign specuvestors? Anyone who invested based on such lame and flimsy "analysis" will be in trouble.

    And I hear the grudges on the ground that the new rules seem to be punitive to the masses while benefiting the rich. This is Singapore - where 85% stay in HDB. If the HDB market collapse, I'm sure all other segments will be affected - including the mickey-mouse type high-end chock-full of speculators.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackfire
    I agree with you. The measures have a broad impact an all segment of the property market, whereas in the past, cooling measures target more at the speculators. The outcome of these measures are rather hard to see now, especially for the HDB resale market. Some would be buyers are not buying now, and on the hand, there are would be sellers not selling either. The HDB market, being the largest, or in fact the majority 70%, property segment in Singapore, would have a more or less impact to the private property segments, including the high end. Don't underestimate the upgraders, they are the backbone of the private property market in Singapore. The "just make it" buyers are significant enough to push or pull the market also. I guess for the next few months, the whole market will be relative quiet and most purchasers will just wait for the new equilibrium.

  21. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    For high-end with mostly foreign investors and speculators - these are our fair weather friends. Once rules and regulations change to the property market's disadvantage, they will be the first to run since they have no feelings or connections to Singapore which many of us call home. So the Wing Tai boss can tell the entire world that after the F1 race, foreigner speculators will start snapping up our "high-end" properties, he must be living in his own world. Just drive around Paterson or River Valley - what % of the newly completed properties are occupied? Most of them are unsold and developers are holding on to their units, praying for foreign specuvestors to rain on them. IRs have opened and F1 has happened for 2 years. Where are the foreign specuvestors? Anyone who invested based on such lame and flimsy "analysis" will be in trouble.
    i had finally found a soulmate tat also find tat wing tai guy's comments distasteful

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmonddd
    if you are caught in a position -staying in HDB (only 2 years MOP) plus 3 private properties/condos rented out with financing margin at 80% each ..what would you do?
    sell hdb or sell all 3 private condos?

  23. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmonddd
    agree with devilplate...the prices shot up instead
    yes, people fear more measures coming, better buy now!

  24. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    Stand-off for a few months and see who blink first. I think sellers are not desperate with the low interest rate. So if sellers continue to hold on to their units, then fire sales are few and far between, then price correction will be minimal. And looking at the number of "investors" on the sideline, once price correct by 10%, I'm sure some kiasu investors will swoop in in droves
    5% will start the ball rolling, it has already started.

    The impact on mass/mid market condo is not so straightforward. The downside caused by reduced affordability of HDB upgraders may be cushioned by new buyers who are now lured into the private market with less transfer restrictions. For instance, PRs who have homes back home are now forced either to rent (keeping rental yields of HDB and mass/mid market condos high) or purchase a mass/mid market condo. The price gap between HDB and private will widen. It will be now more difficult for an upgrader to upgrade to a private condo. There is also a palpable "downgrading" trend - where retirees or baby boomers prefer to downgrade to HDB or move "upstream" while renting out their city-centre homes - taking out cash to travel around the world or simply to enjoy other aspects of life. They can't buy HDB anymore - and they will likely downgrade to "cheaper" condos in more quiet and rustic area. After all, when you are in your 20s, you go to Zouk to cheong every night. But when you reach your mid thirties, priorities tend to change and you may prefer to move away from the noisy city to more peaceful areas.
    not as easy to profit from downgrading anymore. HDB option comes at a cost.


    On HDB, if I had an existing HDB flat and have met MOP and have sufficient cash, I will not sell it. Rental yields is going to be supernormal going forward. Therefore supply of HDB flat on sale will come down as well, the overall impact is unclear. Maybe slightly downwards but probably not a 40% crash. Bear in mind, once you sell your high-yielding HDB to upgrade to private, you may never be able to buy one again - it's a rare commodity. In fact, some of my friends who already own HDB and private are all saying "heng ah!" - I bought HDB before the new rules come into effect.
    Right one. If HDB prices are high, people are happy. People prefer to pay money for HDB than developer.


    For high-end with mostly foreign investors and speculators - these are our fair weather friends. Once rules and regulations change to the property market's disadvantage, they will be the first to run since they have no feelings or connections to Singapore which many of us call home. So the Wing Tai boss can tell the entire world that after the F1 race, foreigner speculators will start snapping up our "high-end" properties, he must be living in his own world. Just drive around Paterson or River Valley - what % of the newly completed properties are occupied? Most of them are unsold and developers are holding on to their units, praying for foreign specuvestors to rain on them. IRs have opened and F1 has happened for 2 years. Where are the foreign specuvestors? Anyone who invested based on such lame and flimsy "analysis" will be in trouble.
    Their luck and own choice to dig their grave. Its ok, let them shop for that LH99 or FH grave. Strange behaviour if u know that even graves are not FH.

    And I hear the grudges on the ground that the new rules seem to be punitive to the masses while benefiting the rich. This is Singapore - where 85% stay in HDB. If the HDB market collapse, I'm sure all other segments will be affected - including the mickey-mouse type high-end chock-full of speculators.
    I use the phrase, "mickey mouse graves"

    well written piece. I like it.

  25. #415
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    20% drop is very substantial. It may apply to some HDB flats who used to have COV of 50 - 80k. I guess condo will be be about 3-5%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geylang OKT
    Prudent buyers won't buy now. They will wait and see for a while. Why cheong in crazily now when the whole island knows that the govt will pump in more punitive measures if property prices still continue to rise? It's like banging your head against a solid wall. Donch take on the govt once it has made its decision to cool prices


    My take is that with the latest measures, prices of mass market condos, mid tier and HDB resale will drop by 20% in the coming months.

  26. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Mark my words.

    HDB prices and COV will not go down.
    Mark my words.............remember?

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    WELCOME BACK!!! WHERE HAVE U BEEN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Mark my words.............remember?

  28. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    WELCOME BACK!!! WHERE HAVE U BEEN?

    Around the world pal with wifey, she gone already. Cancer took her

  29. #419
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    my condolences and take care. at least you toured the world with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Around the world pal with wifey, she gone already. Cancer took her

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    now awaiting the return of Reporter and JLRX.......

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