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Thread: everything related to LANDED!!!

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    Default everything related to LANDED!!!

    hey guys...it is better to start a thread on landed rather den toking about it at scala thread...yay?

    i thinking of getting a old old single storey landed with land size min 1800 max 3000sqft....semi D or corner terrace...

    however, how much do i goto fork out on rebuilding....wat r the steps of doing it? anyone did it recently? mind sharing ur precious experience?

    and most imptly....wats the reasonable land PSF guide in D16/D13/D19 for old old single storey?

    i realised very hard to find such houses leh....if got..also not cheap...only like 20% discount compared to brandnew ones

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    looks dead...realised got another thread which mentioned about 250-300psf.. SO DAMN EX!!!!!!! like building condo!! but without swimming pool etc

    den how about the loan ? many landed sellers nvr do proper valuation one...take it or leave it kind of attitude....all ask me to check with my own valuers blah blah....den how about the cost of construction? can take loan too? wats the interest rate?

    looks like a HUGE INVESTMENT! one wrong move...DEAD

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    Reasonable construction cost should be between 180-200psf. It all depends on the quality, site conditions, design, etc.

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    Think bank can offer you construction loan.

    Or you can just draw a credit facility with your bank to get COF+x% that you can renew monthly, weekly, yearly. Up to negotiation with bank and you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    Reasonable construction cost should be between 180-200psf. It all depends on the quality, site conditions, design, etc.
    Few months ago, my contractor asked me to pulled down my single storey and build 2 1/2 sty, he say 4K sqft, can charge me $550k include design, submission etc - it's for very basic furnishes, no basement, no difficult access - in terms of construction , etc. I asked him sure or not, he say confirmed. I tell so low price maybe too basic to stay, maybe sell can. I asked him why so cheap, as i thought it will be about $700k for 4Ksqft, he say because the design is standard. He is building one now. so architectural fees if not much deviate, his cost not much changes.

    anyway...you work out. Even if $700k for 4k sqft - will be $175psf - more reasonable.

    my place - land is 2800sqft, single storey, last transacted at same lane for $2mil , damn old condition. Opposite neighbour bought by small niche developer - land 2650, tear down, rebuilit, with 4k sqft build-in, asking for $3mil now. So if one were to buy land, built...sell , maybe can make $300k-500k not bad, but need to go thru hassles.

    I confirmed this with my contractor, ask him why he don't go into small time developer, just do A&A and rebuild for others, he tell me he not enough cash/bank loan to buy land. Need Partner to support him.

    Just some comments from what i heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    hey guys...it is better to start a thread on landed rather den toking about it at scala thread...yay?

    i thinking of getting a old old single storey landed with land size min 1800 max 3000sqft....semi D or corner terrace...

    however, how much do i goto fork out on rebuilding....wat r the steps of doing it? anyone did it recently? mind sharing ur precious experience?

    and most imptly....how is lanf PSF is considered reasonable in D16/D13/D19 for old old single storey...

    i realised very hard to find such houses leh....if got..also not cheap...only like 20% discount compared to brandnew ones
    That is because landed folks have penetrating eyes like the Merlion.



    Their eyes can see through the hot air from Miele ovens.



    because they know that 100 years from now, the ovens will become worthless ...



    but the land will become more valuable ...

    PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air.

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    A friend did that, and took 1 year to re-build completely. All in, including interior fittings & furnishings, >$300 psf (have to factor in Architect costs). Not many people have the time & bullet to re-build. Need a lot of time to choose architecture, contractors etc and still have to supervise (otherwise sure get Kotok! Pay for high-quality materials get swopped with low-quality materials etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    looks dead...realised got another thread which mentioned about 250-300psf.. SO DAMN EX!!!!!!! like building condo!! but without swimming pool etc

    den how about the loan ? many landed sellers nvr do proper valuation one...take it or leave it kind of attitude....all ask me to check with my own valuers blah blah....den how about the cost of construction? can take loan too? wats the interest rate?

    looks like a HUGE INVESTMENT! one wrong move...DEAD

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    However, it is the feeling of satisfaction after doing it. My house took about 13 months. I was also involved in the design of my place. I enjoyed doing it just like property investment. I am able to have substantial saving as I engaged only the Main contractor, structural engineer plus ID. You can develop the brief for the Architect if you want to get one. Aki fee is at least $40k. From there, you can develop the tender document and the Architect will help you to develop the detail and call for tender to look for a reasonably price project cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    A friend did that, and took 1 year to re-build completely. All in, including interior fittings & furnishings, >$300 psf (have to factor in Architect costs). Not many people have the time & bullet to re-build. Need a lot of time to choose architecture, contractors etc and still have to supervise (otherwise sure get Kotok! Pay for high-quality materials get swopped with low-quality materials etc).

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    looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno

    i did a few massive reno for old old resale condo b4....oredi got so angry ...frustrated with ID..contractors etc...all wana 'TOK' till the max....u goto find and liase with main con which can saves up nrly 50% compared to those ID designer if u let them handle everything....

    so i can imagine ppl spending 200psf and another spending 300psf or more to rebuild house....

    tks for precious inputs...i noe who to PM if i nid further assistance

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno

    i did a few massive reno for old old resale condo b4....oredi got so angry ...frustrated with ID..contractors etc...all wana 'TOK' till the max....u goto find and liase with main con which can saves up nrly 50% compared to those ID designer if u let them handle everything....

    so i can imagine ppl spending 200psf and another spending 300psf or more to rebuild house....

    tks for precious inputs...i noe who to PM if i nid further assistance

    rebuild is 200-250 psf at least those cheaper ones .. i am not sure .. but they are cookie cutter ... 1 design for all .. so they save on many items ... but risk is the whole lane ..use the same contractor ..and all look the same ...

    if u do AA ..thats about half the psf .. so like 100-125 psf .. but you can only increase the size of by 50 pct of the existing house ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno
    This $300k is compensation only for your time and effort. It excludes capital gains hence you cannot compare this with your flipping profits from condos.

    To compare apples with apples, if you include capital gains on land price over the past few years which is easily over $1 million on average (for doing nothing but just holding the land), total profits can come to around $1.5 mililon to $2 million per project.

    So if you want to undertake this type of redevelopment, you have to ask how the $300k for 13 to 15 months compare with the opportunity cost of your time after taking into account the risk of your capital.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    This $300k is compensation only for your time and effort. It excludes capital gains hence you cannot compare this with your flipping profits from condos.

    To compare apples with apples, if you include capital gains on land price over the past few years which is easily over $1 million on average (for doing nothing but just holding the land), total profits can come to around $1.5 mililon to $2 million per project.

    So if you want to undertake this type of redevelopment, you have to ask how the $300k for 13 to 15 months compare with the opportunity cost of your time after taking into account the risk of your capital.

    bingo ... .


    if one doesnt want to spend that 300k... then just by a old old house and keep the land ..

    i am sure between 2007-2010 ..the land value would have gone up at least 300-400 psf

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    This $300k is compensation only for your time and effort. It excludes capital gains hence you cannot compare this with your flipping profits from condos.

    To compare apples with apples, if you include capital gains on land price over the past few years which is easily over $1 million on average (for doing nothing but just holding the land), total profits can come to around $1.5 mililon to $2 million per project.

    So if you want to undertake this type of redevelopment, you have to ask how the $300k for 13 to 15 months compare with the opportunity cost of your time after taking into account the risk of your capital.
    can i say it is always on hindsight?

    i tink there is some misunderstanding...i assuming ppty price stays the same...if not how to say 300k profit...and tat 300k profit is merely based on a person's perceived profit. tats y i added in someone like me can easily get 'TOK' if i were to undertake such redevelopment for a mere projected 300k profit for the time and effort and again(asuming ppty prices stays the same)

    very hard to compare landed vs air...to make a fair comparison...we shd based on the PPI for non landed vs landed and within a certain time frame....mabe let say from 2006 till now? but den also very hard to determine individual ppty rental yield achieved throughout the yrs for non landed vs landed....everything adds up.

    anyway, be it landed or air space or hdb...all HUAT ARGH!!!!!!!

    smtimes dun take my words on face value....i may be trying to be sarcastic....many ppl say condo prices r high...landed still cheap... ...in fact, landed r facing a bigger bubble if i were to based on the % increase since last yr lows

    when ppty market crash...hdb, condo and landed fall together

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    bingo ... .


    if one doesnt want to spend that 300k... then just by a old old house and keep the land ..

    i am sure between 2007-2010 ..the land value would have gone up at least 300-400 psf
    air space also up leh....plus rental income...how to compare?

    even hdb also up...in fact exceed all time high by the highest % compared to landed and non landed

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    bingo ... .


    if one doesnt want to spend that 300k... then just by a old old house and keep the land ..

    i am sure between 2007-2010 ..the land value would have gone up at least 300-400 psf
    U are quite right. Best gains i know are from GCB, which is beyond reach of many. I know pple who have double or more for GCB bought only in 2008. Wow

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    Everyone out there is trying to TOK. Got TOK and gives inferior product is the worst. When I was doing reconstruction of my place, supervisors are local and workers are mainly malaysia. Now, Malaysian becomes supervisor and workers are mainly from India and Myanmar. You have find a trustworthy Main Contractor. In a similar land area around my area, the cost of construction has gone up by more than 50%.
    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno

    i did a few massive reno for old old resale condo b4....oredi got so angry ...frustrated with ID..contractors etc...all wana 'TOK' till the max....u goto find and liase with main con which can saves up nrly 50% compared to those ID designer if u let them handle everything....

    so i can imagine ppl spending 200psf and another spending 300psf or more to rebuild house....

    tks for precious inputs...i noe who to PM if i nid further assistance

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    Quote Originally Posted by land118
    U are quite right. Best gains i know are from GCB, which is beyond reach of many. I know pple who have double or more for GCB bought only in 2008. Wow
    like the one who sold his land to FEO at crazy prices recently

    we can only dream on....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    Everyone out there is trying to TOK. Got TOK and gives inferior product is the worst. When I was doing reconstruction of my place, supervisors are local and workers are mainly malaysia. Now, Malaysian becomes supervisor and workers are mainly from India and Myanmar. You have find a trustworthy Main Contractor. In a similar land area around my area, the cost of construction has gone up by more than 50%.
    haiz...nvm...i treat it as a learning process now...just go view landed on and off whenever i am free....when the opportunities comes...make sure i dun miss it again

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    haiz...nvm...i treat it as a learning process now...just go view landed on and off whenever i am free....when the opportunities comes...make sure i dun miss it again
    There is always undervalued properties either landed, condo or apt which has potential in capital gain. Just got to be patient and find them. It's like oil exploration in the ocean. Becomes richer when find one.

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    Do you stay on brockhampton drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by land118
    Few months ago, my contractor asked me to pulled down my single storey and build 2 1/2 sty, he say 4K sqft, can charge me $550k include design, submission etc - it's for very basic furnishes, no basement, no difficult access - in terms of construction , etc. I asked him sure or not, he say confirmed. I tell so low price maybe too basic to stay, maybe sell can. I asked him why so cheap, as i thought it will be about $700k for 4Ksqft, he say because the design is standard. He is building one now. so architectural fees if not much deviate, his cost not much changes.

    anyway...you work out. Even if $700k for 4k sqft - will be $175psf - more reasonable.

    my place - land is 2800sqft, single storey, last transacted at same lane for $2mil , damn old condition. Opposite neighbour bought by small niche developer - land 2650, tear down, rebuilit, with 4k sqft build-in, asking for $3mil now. So if one were to buy land, built...sell , maybe can make $300k-500k not bad, but need to go thru hassles.

    I confirmed this with my contractor, ask him why he don't go into small time developer, just do A&A and rebuild for others, he tell me he not enough cash/bank loan to buy land. Need Partner to support him.

    Just some comments from what i heard.

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    ermm seems like rebuilding is very effort and capital intensive.... some more, also may get cheated by contractors....

    why not buy a 'pretty new' (say, renovated 5-8 yrs ago?) FH landed property with existing tenancy (of coz e rent must be >= mortgage+misc expenses), in an area with 1.4 plot ratio and ..... wait ..... wait .... wait .... wait ....

    then suddenly , lotsa $$$$ fall from the skies , coz got developer wanna buy adjoining units to develop to 5-storey condo... hee......

    nice dream hor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by limfc
    ermm seems like rebuilding is very effort and capital intensive.... some more, also may get cheated by contractors....

    why not buy a 'pretty new' (say, renovated 5-8 yrs ago?) FH landed property with existing tenancy (of coz e rent must be >= mortgage+misc expenses), in an area with 1.4 plot ratio and ..... wait ..... wait .... wait .... wait ....

    then suddenly , lotsa $$$$ fall from the skies , coz got developer wanna buy adjoining units to develop to 5-storey condo... hee......

    nice dream hor?
    It's not a dream. Singapore simply cannot afford to have landed properties because they're very space consuming and uneconomical.

    Hence eventually all landed will be turned into condos like in the major cities London and Hong Kong.

    The only exceptions will be super luxurious bungalows like Kensington Palace Gardens aka "Billionaires Row" or Hong Kong's seaview villas costing $100 million and above.

    However, when this day comes, we will not be in this world anymore. That's why we must practise the PROPERTISM religion, so that we can ascend to PROPERTISM Heaven and look down happily through the clouds.



    PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.

    PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air.

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    can I know for a 1800 land area, can it accomodate 4000 built up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rattydrama
    can I know for a 1800 land area, can it accomodate 4000 built up?

    yes - can. I stay in 1700 sq ft with 3650 built up. But it depends on height restrictions and u may have to create a basement (expensive) to reach your targeted 4000.

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    would anyone pay 1000 psf for 99 LH landed at Holland Grove ? TOP-ed 1997

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    would anyone pay 1000 psf for 99 LH landed at Holland Grove ? TOP-ed 1997
    Seems like quite a number of people are willing to pay that.

    The strange thing is that the psf is the same as the freehold Holland Grove Park nearby! (Although Holland Grove Park's are mostly bungalows with larger land areas).

    Holland Grove View (99 Years)


    Holland Grove Park (Freehold)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Seems like quite a number of people are willing to pay that.

    The strange thing is that the psf is the same as the freehold Holland Grove Park nearby! (Although Holland Grove Park's are mostly bungalows with larger land areas).

    Holland Grove View (99 Years)


    Holland Grove Park (Freehold)
    what is the draw of that area ? that people are willing to pay at and above 1000 psf for 13 yo 99 LH semi / terrace there ?

    when for the same land size and FH ..they are many choices in other districts or even further down at D21

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    How to compare D21 to D10?
    $1000 psf in Holland area still VERY cheap!
    considering that Seletar 99LH also can sell average $950 psf!

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    what is the draw of that area ? that people are willing to pay at and above 1000 psf for 13 yo 99 LH semi / terrace there ?

    when for the same land size and FH ..they are many choices in other districts or even further down at D21

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    what is the draw of that area ? that people are willing to pay at and above 1000 psf for 13 yo 99 LH semi / terrace there ?

    when for the same land size and FH ..they are many choices in other districts or even further down at D21
    it just shows tat everyone is born differently

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    but 99 year condo easier to en-bloc donkey years down the road but not so easy for landed?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    How to compare D21 to D10?
    $1000 psf in Holland area still VERY cheap!
    considering that Seletar 99LH also can sell average $950 psf!

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