Clementi Park owners won't sell at any price

[mr funny]

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/...77540,00.html?

Published June 19, 2010

Clementi Park owners won't sell at any price

Survey shows general consensus against en bloc sale; sale committee has disbanded, marketing agent withdrawn

By CHAN YUPING


CLEMENTI Park Condominium residents do not want to sell their apartments - even for $1.25 billion or more.

A collective sale committee (CSC) has been disbanded and the marketing agent for the sale, Knight Frank, has withdrawn.

Knight Frank said that it did not think it was possible to get 80 per cent backing for a collective sale even if the reserve price was set higher at $1.4 billion, given the ownership profile and current market conditions.

The firm reached this conclusion based on 382 responses obtained from a total of 489 owners surveyed in April and May this year, which showed a general consensus against the sale.

In addition, 'because of the diversity of share value and strata area, it is difficult to get owners to agree to one method of apportionment', said Knight Frank.

Following the firm's withdrawal, the Clementi Park CSC, which was formed in November 2007, has disbanded after its final meeting on June 8.

Most CSC members reckoned it would be 'futile' to appoint a new marketing agent because the outcome would most likely be similar, and felt that 'the collective sale exercise should be aborted', said CSC secretary Winston Wong.

The 28-year-old condo, which sits on freehold land, is well known for its hilly landscape and green environment. It is next to Brookvale Condominium - another City Developments project - which has failed to go en bloc several times.

Clementi Park residents formed a website called saveclementipark.com to rally support against an en bloc sale.

'Owners here know that what we have is irreplaceable,' said resident Patrick Lim.

'We do not want to live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another. There is so much space and greenery here. We even have our own natural hill in the heart of Clementi Park.'

[jlrx]

'We do not want to live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another. There is so much space and greenery here. We even have our own natural hill in the heart of Clementi Park.'

Frankly, despite being a pastor of the PROPERTISM religion and an ardent fan of MICKEYMOUSATION, I still don't quite understand the economics of this whole en bloc game.

Firstly, the old condos which have "so much space and greenery" are worth only $X psf (where X depends on location).

Secondly, if these old condos are enblocked then usually each unit can be sold for $1.5X psf (assuming average en bloc premium of 50%).

Thirdly, the developer needs to price in the cost to rebuild and earn a profit thus adding an additional $0.5X psf, resulting in the new condos being sold at $2X psf.

Hence the people who buy the new condos pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another".

Yet they are only willing to pay $X psf for "so much space and greenery".

Anyone who needs a new-looking condo could actually just renovate the whole unit which would cost at most $0.2X (where X depends on location).

Then they will have a new condo with "so much space and greenery" and half the number of neighbours at $1.2X psf, but they prefer to pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another".

[devilplate]

design facade outdated mah...everything leaks

only few will appreciate vintage cars for eg.

furthermore, majority do not have extra cash to do massive reno

[sfwoo]

design facade outdated mah...everything leaks

only few will appreciate vintage cars for eg.

furthermore, majority do not have extra cash to do massive reno

Yeah.
And no car definitely cannot stay there.
If you have children, need 2 cars, one for the wife to send the children, one for the hubby to go to work in.
This condo is very, very deep in. Although it is very serene.

[devilplate]

just did a search, all asking 9xxpsf! even at 8xxpsf..isit really worth ?

[proud owner]

just did a search, all asking 9xxpsf! even at 8xxpsf..isit really worth ?

if i am retired ... yes ... i would want to live there ... i am for one ..not a city person .. the greenery , the tranquility is what i want

but if i am still working ... then err .... differnet story ...

for that matter ... Sunset way landed are also not ideal

its a one way in, one way out estate ...

[devilplate]

if i am retired ... yes ... i would want to live there ... i am for one ..not a city person .. the greenery , the tranquility is what i want

but if i am still working ... then err .... differnet story ...

for that matter ... Sunset way landed are also not ideal

its a one way in, one way out estate ...

if old and retired, make more sense to stay near to HDB amenities rite...leg weak, eyesight poor

[sfwoo]

if old and retired, make more sense to stay near to HDB amenities rite...leg weak, eyesight poor

My retirement will be in HDB flat, with market, food centre, coffeeshops, doctor, provision shop...all downstairs.

[proud owner]

My retirement will be in HDB flat, with market, food centre, coffeeshops, doctor, provision shop...all downstairs.

well will probably have a maid to do all the works and walking ...

[sfwoo]

well will probably have a maid to do all the works and walking ...

Maybe.
A lot of elderly are led by maids when they go out, and if got wheelchair, pushed around in wheelchair by maids.
Our children will be too busy trying to earn money to do this for us.

[proud owner]

Maybe.
A lot of elderly are led by maids when they go out, and if got wheelchair, pushed around in wheelchair by maids.
Our children will be too busy trying to earn money to do this for us.

personally i like the greenery .. this could well be the LAST piece of land that still have the surrounding space, privacy, serenity, and nice size unit

too many MM units in the last 3 yrs

even 3 bedrooms are only 1100 sqft

[sfwoo]

personally i like the greenery .. this could well be the LAST piece of land that still have the surrounding space, privacy, serenity, and nice size unit

too many MM units in the last 3 yrs

even 3 bedrooms are only 1100 sqft

Probably.
We are land scarce.
Impossible to find such a large piece of land except in LIM CHU KANG where the farms are.

[teddybear]

1. If you are retired and can't carry heavy things and can't walk long walk way to bus-stop (not to mention MRT) and travel far to get groceries, how to live there (if no car)?

2. Assuming you have car and the inconvenience is Ok when you are younger, by the time you are >70 years old and probably it is not safe to drive as you get older, how to live there (go back to same problem as (1))?

3. This type of place young kids how to get to school and back conveniently by public transport?

if i am retired ... yes ... i would want to live there ... i am for one ..not a city person .. the greenery , the tranquility is what i want

but if i am still working ... then err .... differnet story ...

for that matter ... Sunset way landed are also not ideal

its a one way in, one way out estate ...

[teddybear]

No need HDB lah, there are also condos close to as much and some even more amenites (albeit the higher end & expensive type) than HDB, just whether you wanna pay so much for the property (vs HDB) or not.

if old and retired, make more sense to stay near to HDB amenities rite...leg weak, eyesight poor

[teddybear]

Didn't hear stories of how maids treat the elderly who can't move around freely?
Better don't rely on the maids!

Maybe.
A lot of elderly are led by maids when they go out, and if got wheelchair, pushed around in wheelchair by maids.
Our children will be too busy trying to earn money to do this for us.

[mogyi]

Frankly, despite being a pastor of the PROPERTISM religion and an ardent fan of MICKEYMOUSATION, I still don't quite understand the economics of this whole en bloc game.

Firstly, the old condos which have "so much space and greenery" are worth only $X psf (where X depends on location).

Secondly, if these old condos are enblocked then usually each unit can be sold for $1.5X psf (assuming average en bloc premium of 50%).

Thirdly, the developer needs to price in the cost to rebuild and earn a profit thus adding an additional $0.5X psf, resulting in the new condos being sold at $2X psf.

Hence the people who buy the new condos pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another".

Yet they are only willing to pay $X psf for "so much space and greenery".

Anyone who needs a new-looking condo could actually just renovate the whole unit which would cost at most $0.2X (where X depends on location).

Then they will have a new condo with "so much space and greenery" and half the number of neighbours at $1.2X psf, but they prefer to pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another".

I read yr post with interest . especially the portion of "the developer needs to price in the cost to rebuild and earn a profit thus adding an additional $0.5X psf" jus being very curious, does anyone has any bolt part figure on what's the costing in psf developer have to incurr to rebuild for a plot ratio of say 2.0 or 2.8 , there's probably a generic formula i guess

[bargain hunter]

3 bedrooms 1100 and still shrinking.

personally i like the greenery .. this could well be the LAST piece of land that still have the surrounding space, privacy, serenity, and nice size unit

too many MM units in the last 3 yrs

even 3 bedrooms are only 1100 sqft

[devilplate]

personally i like the greenery .. this could well be the LAST piece of land that still have the surrounding space, privacy, serenity, and nice size unit

too many MM units in the last 3 yrs

even 3 bedrooms are only 1100 sqft

raintree suits u...no HDB but got monkeys

[sfwoo]

Didn't hear stories of how maids treat the elderly who can't move around freely?
Better don't rely on the maids!

Agree, to an extent, about maids. I personally dislike the idea. Though, sometimes, got no choice but to use maids as caregivers for elderly.

[proud owner]

raintree suits u...no HDB but got monkeys

ahhaha


no leh ... no doubt that place has a lot of greenery ... it lacks the serenity ... evening, and weekend so crowded

[august]

Frankly, despite being a pastor of the PROPERTISM religion and an ardent fan of MICKEYMOUSATION, I still don't quite understand the economics of this whole en bloc game.

Firstly, the old condos which have "so much space and greenery" are worth only $X psf (where X depends on location).

Secondly, if these old condos are enblocked then usually each unit can be sold for $1.5X psf (assuming average en bloc premium of 50%).

Thirdly, the developer needs to price in the cost to rebuild and earn a profit thus adding an additional $0.5X psf, resulting in the new condos being sold at $2X psf.

Hence the people who buy the new condos pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another".

Yet they are only willing to pay $X psf for "so much space and greenery".

Anyone who needs a new-looking condo could actually just renovate the whole unit which would cost at most $0.2X (where X depends on location).

Then they will have a new condo with "so much space and greenery" and half the number of neighbours at $1.2X psf, but they prefer to pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another".

the price becomes $2X psf because of value enhancement due to increase in usage intensity e.g. increase in plot ratio, after which presumably one gets a brand new, better designed product on a fresh lease tenure.

If the owners renovate the whole unit at $0.2X, this is money coming out of their own pockets.

[devilplate]

ahhaha


no leh ... no doubt that place has a lot of greenery ... it lacks the serenity ... evening, and weekend so crowded

wah liu...palau ubin liao lor

[Localite]

Then they will have a new condo with "so much space and greenery" and half the number of neighbours at $1.2X psf, but they prefer to pay $2X psf to "live in condos where the rooms are shoe boxes and the blocks look into one another". [/quote]

Quite true, but also remember that you pack more units into same area by enbloc. so not really 2x. it might end up being 1.5x. and also it is a new house. new house cannot be compared to old house. modern fascade, facilities etc. for example some old condos have cylinder gas.

at the end it depends on supply and demand. example there are some v good old cars going for dirt cheap price. maybe in good condition, but still not enough demand. people feel if i can afford 100k by way of a loan why should i buy and old car. i can buy a decent new compact car. it is at the end of the day supply and demand.

that is why i am a believer of landed property. as the prices rise you benefit directly. you can do self-upgrading or enbloc. why let someone else get the benefit and throw you out?

[sfwoo]

that is why i am a believer of landed property. as the prices rise you benefit directly. you can do self-upgrading or enbloc. why let someone else get the benefit and throw you out?

Landed...out of reach for the masses.
Even in the rural areas, landed are priced at premium in Singapore.

Funny thing is, "mass market homes" are "landed" in places with a lot of land!(Like Malaysia, and even UK).

[proud owner]

Landed...out of reach for the masses.
Even in the rural areas, landed are priced at premium in Singapore.

Funny thing is, "mass market homes" are "landed" in places with a lot of land!(Like Malaysia, and even UK).

i see alot of transactions .. in town area ... say 1400 sqft 3mio = 2100 psf

for 2.5 mio can get a 3000-4000 sqft land with a built up semi D of say 2500 sqft ... in decent location .. short drive to town ...

its all in the mindset lor .. still many prefer the lights and buzz of city ,,and willing to pay ALOT more ..

rather than the peace and quiet (some will say DULL ) of landed ..

all individual preference ...

once with children .. many will tend to want landed

[teddybear]

Once the children grow up, they move back to condos?
3 trends:
1) Many not getting marriage (so don't need & don't want so big space of landed)
2) Many getting old & need conveniency by walking (so cannot maintain so big space of landed and cannot walk so far to amenities)
3) Many marriage decided not to have children (again, don't need so big space).

i see alot of transactions .. in town area ... say 1400 sqft 3mio = 2100 psf

for 2.5 mio can get a 3000-4000 sqft land with a built up semi D of say 2500 sqft ... in decent location .. short drive to town ...

its all in the mindset lor .. still many prefer the lights and buzz of city ,,and willing to pay ALOT more ..

rather than the peace and quiet (some will say DULL ) of landed ..

all individual preference ...

once with children .. many will tend to want landed

[proud owner]

Once the children grow up, they move back to condos?
3 trends:
1) Many not getting marriage (so don't need & don't want so big space of landed)
2) Many getting old & need conveniency by walking (so cannot maintain so big space of landed and cannot walk so far to amenities)
3) Many marriage decided not to have children (again, don't need so big space).

ahahhaa jia lat lah like that how ?

in anotehr 20 yrs the whole singaporean populations are PRs

[teddybear]

Even PRs will still grow old, so the correct sentence is:
"In another 20yrs the whole singapore population are EDLERLY".

No wonder the Malaysians and the Indians fighting for Singapore's Parkway now!

ahahhaa jia lat lah like that how ?

in anotehr 20 yrs the whole singaporean populations are PRs