D5 is bad .....Originally Posted by jlrx
its is river valley without sentosa
5 = 9 - 4
D5 is bad .....Originally Posted by jlrx
its is river valley without sentosa
5 = 9 - 4
D5 is good.Originally Posted by proud owner
It is Sentosa + Marina Bay.
5 = 4 + 1
This is proof yet again that properties make good investments!
Originally Posted by jlrx
i really like your optimism ... sweet
There are people saying that D15 has the largest area and therefore it has the highest number of supply => thereby resulting in highest number of transactions sold.
In URA records - private non-landed residential projects in the pipeline:
D15: 2302 units
D9: 2045 units
D10: 3067 units
D11: 1130 units
So which district has the highest number of supply but yet not the most popular? D10
Which district is best selling (most popular) despite not having the highest number of supply? D15
i rest my case as i've always maintained demand and supply drives prices. now you correlate popularity that drives demand which in turns affects price. it's not a pure, direct correlation. your argument assumes there's no addition supply in the scenario when a commodity is popular. wrong! when a commodity is popular, everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon to offer it and take a piece of the pie and then viola, cheap prices. we see that from solar cells to handphones to cars to lcd tvs, etc.Originally Posted by luzman
demand and supply drives pricing. not popularity period. only when there is no further supply then we can assume popularity drives up prices, simply because supply cannot keep up with demand.
fyi, you need to learn to spell - it's expEnsive, not expAnsive.....
Right, there was a poll in D9 forum asking prime owners drive wat car. Majority drives below $50K car and some dun even drive.Originally Posted by proud owner
So should be this comparison:
D15: Toyota (Most popular) Prices just can't stop rising bec of popularity
D9: Perodua Kelisa - Mount a turbocharger on it will make it super fast, some say can be as fast as a Lambo, just like it's sky rocketing prices. But once it crashes, chances of survival is almost 0.
Let you refute you on your theory again:Originally Posted by eng81157
Your theory is true if the supply is easily satisfied. We are debating on property my friend in this forum and not commodity. Let's not get confused with the issue at hand. Property market supply is not very elastic. You cannot say if the demand is very high, the developers can flood the markets any time with million of units and the prices will fall...this is not the case because supply is usually controlled and limited..and developers takes time to build...even if they have many landbanks..
Therefore, your seemly sound economic theory fails here because you are assuming a perfect market where supply and demand its perfectly elastic..
So, my theory that because it is popular, it drives demand and because supply is not readily fulfilled, prices will hold and rises remains valid..
This Mr Color Blue obviously also never study economics in school...Originally Posted by Blue
Test 1:
1) Toyota is most popular but why the prices wont rise so much? Use your brain here...
2) Porsche or Lambogini or Ferrari also popular buy why price remains high? Use our brain here..
Ok...Answer
1) Toyota is marketed as a mid range economical car..and the supply is plenty...its targeted at mass market and supply of cars are in the millions...so, price cannot go very high because of supply and its non exclusivity..
2) Porsche or Ferrari are premium brand car targeted at niche buyers...the supply is limited and so, the price will remain high and exclusive..
If you still dont get it...hmm..well...just reply with your usual load of rubbish with no substance as usual...
You just can't stop yeah, Mr Kelisa? Keep stalking my posts like ghosts..eeeksOriginally Posted by luzman
Come, reply back, I know you will. Find loopholes from my above statement. Prove me wrong, prove all D15 owners wrong that they chose the wrong District to buy, prove the press and URA wrong that their figures are incorrect.
Prove all boutique property owners that their home is garbage. Only Little India has the best capital gain upside.
Only D9 is the most popular bec it has limited supply and command highest price, sell all your properties elsewhere and buy D9. It will soar to $5600 psf like nobody business. Stay in mickey mouse unit never mind. Just hang all your Orchard Rd purchases in the ceiling. Save all your money for property investment, just buy Kelisa. Be the super prime carrot head than be a wise investor.
Don't know why these people vested in D15 need to argue so much and trying to preach their D15 to be better than D9, D10 or even D11? Even want to say better than Orchard some more? Let's hear what the property experts say below.
D15 is in RCR, a part where, as mentioned in the article below is for:
These homes are in areas which are not attractive to institutional investors and are also not within the reach of many HDB upgraders.
'Properties in RCR will, however, continue to be attractive to those who remain priced out of the high-end market, or those with a lower risk appetite,'
(what do they mean by "attractive to those who remain priced out of high-end market"? Can't afford is it? )
--------------------------------------------------
City-fringe units not a sure bet
Fall in prices in first quarter greater than that for properties in city centre, suburbs. -ST
Tue, Apr 21, 2009
The Straits Times
By Joyce Teo
Values for city-fringe homes are typically thought to hold up better than those in the suburbs, but the fall in prices in the first quarter means that this belief may no longer hold true, at least temporarily.
These homes are in areas which are not attractive to institutional investors and are also not within the reach of many HDB upgraders.
In view of these dynamics, the question is whether the areas still present good buys.
The city-fringe areas are what the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) terms RCR, or rest of central region. They are sandwiched between the core central region (CCR) - which comprises districts 9, 10, 11, Sentosa and the Central Business District - and the outside central region (OCR).
RCR areas include Paya Lebar, Geylang, Amber Road, Lavender, Toa Payoh, Tiong Bahru and Telok Blangah.
URA data shows that last year, prices of non-landed properties in the city centre, city fringe and suburban areas fell by 5.6 per cent, 4.7 per cent and 2.9 per cent, respectively.
But first-quarter flash estimates show that prices of city- fringe flats slipped by 17.2 per cent - more than the 15.2 per cent drop for city centre flats and the 7.5 per cent fall for suburban ones.
Price
The price index reflects the rate of growth for each region, said Ms Jacqueline Wong, head of residential at Jones Lang LaSalle.
That the RCR experienced the steepest first-quarter price drop based on the flash estimates may just imply that the region is undergoing a greater price correction as prices might have been inflated during the property market boom, she said.
In terms of pricing, RCR pales in comparison to CCR as the latter's branding and location are better, she said.
It is thus fair to say that RCR is 'a poorer cousin to CCR', added Ms Wong.
In some parts of the RCR nearer to the city, developers tend to leverage on prime areas when they sell their projects, said Chesterton Suntec International's Mr Colin Tan.
He said: 'It'll be a discount from prime areas rather than a premium over suburban areas.'
But a price correction is happening now in the RCR, as with other areas.
'At the moment, it is probably perceived as overpriced. Investors may want to wait for it to come down to a more realistic level,' said Mr Tan.
Prime beats RCR
In general, where investors are concerned, prime areas are the best, experts said.
'If you can afford it, buy prime. Depending on the type of properties you buy, there is a better chance for capital appreciation when the market recovers,' said Knight Frank's Mr Nicholas Mak.
'If you cannot, buy a property near an MRT station farther away or in the suburbs if your objective is to cash out.'
Mr Tan said a price recovery, when it comes, will be quicker in an established area like Orchard.
The RCR has quite a few new residential areas, so it may take time for the value in these areas to rise, he said.
City centre properties generally enjoy 'unrivalled prestige, exclusivity and locational advantage', and are hence extremely popular with expatriates, particularly those with higher budgets, said Ms Tay Huey Ying, director for research and advisory at Colliers International.
As prices of these properties have eased substantially from their stratospheric levels in 2007, they would certainly be worthwhile investments for those who can afford it, she said.
A mixed bag
Nevertheless, the RCR is not a write-off, experts stressed.
'Properties in RCR will, however, continue to be attractive to those who remain priced out of the high-end market, or those with a lower risk appetite,' said Ms Tay.
'The RCR is definitely an area not to be forgotten,' said Ms Wong.
February and March sales data has proven that RCR projects such as the sold-out Alexis at Alexandra Road and The Arte at Thomson Road are in strong demand, she said.
'In terms of the leasing market, developments in RCR remain popular among tenants as they are more affordable compared to those in prime areas,' said Ms Wong.
The good thing about RCR is that there is a higher probability that the properties are freehold, Mr Mak said.
Condos in the suburbs next to MRT stations tend to be 99-year leasehold properties.
But unlike the case in most suburban estates, not many RCR projects are near MRT stations.
'The RCR is a mixed bag. For instance, there is Tanjong Rhu which is quite popular and not too far north, and there is Geylang, an area that some people will not touch with a 10-foot pole.'
This article was first published in The Straits Times.
Last edited by teddybear; 09-04-10 at 22:23.
Very hard to compare like that, unless we compare two properties of the same size, level and facing.Originally Posted by teddybear
Of course on a psf-to-psf basis, D15 is lower than D9 or 10 (on average) but even that depends on which part of D15 versus which part of D9 and 10.
That's why this debate looks like it's never going to end.
Reminds me of a primary school question: metal is heavier than wood, true or false?
Ardmore II
2 Ardmore Park #24-04
Freehold
$1600
2024
$3236k
01 Apr 09
2 Ardmore Park #13-04
Freehold
$2549
2024
$5158k
12 Jan 10
In shit times, downside is $900+ to $1000psf. I have a weak heart, cannot take too much of this when maybe some institutional investors start dumping stocks. And there are still some champions yet to recover from record breaking px in 2007. Prime District might give High return, but comes with high risk. If u get the timing wrong, well...
Can't compare like that using absolute $ difference. If you compare by %, anywhere also can go down and go up by about same %. E.g. Telok Karu low was like $700+ psf. Now people asking $1200+ psf (and was about that in 2007 peak). This is like a whopping >42% drop!
On the other hand, the prime properties have not even reached their 2007 peak yet.
In your example of Ardmore II, the difference is 37% only.
Originally Posted by jc
Haha... Then Seaview launch at $700+ if i remember correctly, ever gone up to $1400+ ie 100%. Like wise other fringe projects like SB, Citylights, etc. also went up 100% b4. In short, it is incorrect to conclude just because URA Price Index for RCR falls more than others for 1 qtr, or institutional investors not buying, it is inferior to D9 10 in that sense we can't make $ investing in them.Originally Posted by teddybear
And of course Ardmore is still Ardmore, no D15 can replace for now. But not all D9 10 11 are prime, eg. Sky 11 is still in TPY, Cube 8 is in Balestier.
As far as the definition by URA and what I see, D9-D11 are all considered prime, just that some place are more prime than others. Sky 11 is one of those that are considered Toa Payoh vacinity and the least prime prime of them all, may be equivalent to Mt Sinai area (which is more Ulu Pandan & Clementi than really Holland)? Same for many areas close to Ngee Ann Poly and Upper Bukit Timah areas.
Originally Posted by jc
Yes, like a project Park Natura (no offence to those invested), if i am not mistaken it falls in the RCR by URA definition, but add. is Bt Batok Ave 6.... This area cannot be compared with Balestier also in RCR, like Balestier cannot be compared to Amber also in RCR. Amber RCR again cannot be compared to Ardmore, the premium No.1 condo area, with or without any view, with or without tour coaches parking on the roadsideOriginally Posted by teddybear
But To each his own, some like to play high stakes, some are smaller player. Get some fundamentals right, CCR & RCR also got chance to make $$.
so, my argument holds!! omg, you equated popularity to price and i stated it's about demand and supply. then you change your tack to a finite supply and an increase in demand will drive prices. so what on earth is your argument that popularity drives prices? since the start i've maintained it's demand.Originally Posted by luzman
anyway, thanks for realizing it's demand that drives prices.
dear Mr eng81157..i think you are the confused one...you are the one say price is about expansive to cheap...i disagree...I say price is about supply and demand...but with a caveat...because if u limit supply at a unpopular district, the price wont shoot up because there wont be any demand anyway...so, my point is that price is affected by demand and supply provided there is a demand..and that means it must be popular...Originally Posted by eng81157
dont get confused with yourself,,,look back at your comments again..
Reply I will and I must because as long as you do not make correct statements or irresponsible statements, I think it is right that it must be corrected right away...Originally Posted by Blue
1) I never say district 15 is wrong...I say it depends on what you are looking for..investment or own stay
2) I also didnt say URA figures are wrong..i say if you read a general statement, you cannot take it at face value without asking the relevant question...for example, District 15 is popular....yes..with who? You need to ask that kind of question and not just assume that is what it means...another words..you need to have more depths in your thoughts and analysis...
Let me give you another example...it was found that Chicken rice is very popular in Singapore...you need to ask popular with who?? Foreigners? Chinese, Malays or Indians? Those are generalized statements and you need to find out what exactly it is trying to tell u..
3) Mickey house is readily available in district 15 as well...so, stop telling others only district 9 has such....
Another confused soul who said others are confused.... That's why Ah Nehs are always beating around the bushes and hiding among trees..bec they cannot figure out whether chicken comes first or egg comes first.Originally Posted by luzman
Price in general is driven by demand. But "carrot" price is not driven by demand, but driven by hype. There is no real demand, just investment hype in the prime districts. Everyone just buys so that the next carrot down the chain will make them richer. The last carrot is the one who will slog and slave to pay and stay in the mickey mouse unit for the rest of his life
Popularity is driven by demand, not supply. If something is not popular, no matter how many quantities you produce, nobody buys.
And popularity will eventually drive prices up bec supply is limited.
U are the totally confused one....property is about paying market prices...i think your so called carrot price is also easily found in district 15...which carrot want to pay Mayer for $2000psf or more?? many...are they carrot? its market price my friend...don't get confused and refused to accept market price and try to act an expert to say what is carrot price..Originally Posted by Blue
"Popularity is driven by demand, not supply. If something is not popular, no matter how many quantities you produce, nobody buys.Originally Posted by Blue
And popularity will eventually drive prices up bec supply is limited." Hey...don't be confused leh...this is my statement..dont anyhow borrow my statement and say its yours...you dun have such depth lah...
See!!!??? Ah Neh's talking!!!Originally Posted by luzman
What a no depth response...as usual..Originally Posted by Blue
Too much depth, Ah Neh oso cannot understand. Hv to use prata language neh.Originally Posted by luzman
I encourage u to reply with such statements...it only goes to show your immaturity....better still, makes your district 15 looks bad cos of people like u there...Originally Posted by Blue
I don't understand why the COLOUR keep harping about ah neh? He lives in D15 and now got lots of ah neh also. Probably he likes ah neh very much or he regretted buying in D15 and now keep complaining about the ah neh invading his vicinity? Regretted and asking people (the "carrot") to buy over his property from him at a high price by saying his is better than many of the CCR properties and hence should command higher price than those?
Originally Posted by luzman
I agree...this COLOUR who has Monday BLUES throughout the week cannot see the real world and keep imaging people pay carrot price...I think he is the stupid carrot who pay for his Joo Chiat "Boutique" apartment that no one wants to buy now...real carrot..Originally Posted by teddybear
altho i personally think east coast far outstrips mt emily, i think there's a glut of boutiques in d15. last week was enquiring on mabelle - bank cannot support valuation, and was quite far away from asking price. one cannot compare resale boutiques with newly launched condos as the developers have bank tie ups that will support high valuations
sigh, don't think it's fruitful trying to make sense to one with sub-par logic. check my comments, it's simple. i state that popularity has no direct correlation to price as the latter is simply determined by supply and demand. by the way, thank you for agreeing with me, for the umpteenth time, that price is determined by supply and demand.Originally Posted by luzman
then you bring in limited supply, elasticity of price, blah blah blah, to make a more rounded case when holes were being poked at.
please read your previous posts where you claim price was affected by popularity without bringing in any substantiative arguments.
going by your initial claim if popularity has any direct bearing on price, then the most expensive car models in singapore should rightfully be the toyota altis and kia cerato
with this, i rest my case