Freehold vs lease hold 99 after the recent news

[apple3]

depending on how old she is, there are tonnes of infant "enrichment" classes these days, ranging from Shichida to Gymboree to Kindermusik to GUG and what not....

Oh yes, don't forget to secure a place for her in the top kindergarten/childcare.... The good ones (eg Nanyang Kindergarten, Maris Stella, St James) have waiting list that stretch all the way to the womb!

Don't know of any Nursery in Kind listed Co though..... might be risky business.... remember ABC Learning in Aust?

Huh? what are you talking about? Japanese or Italianoooo...

We are singaporean leh.. u know?

No more PA or PAP kindergarden?

What is this nanyang kindergarden? Super Education Train?

Nanyang Kindergarden > Nanyang Primary > Nanyang Secondary > Nanyang Junior College > Nanyang Technological University?

[ocoloco79]

Sorry to dig up this old post. May I know in your opinion, what is the price difference if a project is LH or FH holding other factors constant? Meaning for a project that you are willing to buy, LH status is $700psf, if given that it is FH, how much premium are you willing to top up?

[cher]

Sorry to dig up this old post. May I know in your opinion, what is the price difference if a project is LH or FH holding other factors constant? Meaning for a project that you are willing to buy, LH status is $700psf, if given that it is FH, how much premium are you willing to top up?

No more than 20%

[rattydrama]

Geylang not too far from Marina Bay with plenty of freehold condos there. Geylang will shoot up to $1500psf the moment the govt cleans up the red light and transform the area into a condo hub

like that all chickens go where to hang their red lantern? anyone owning a ppty there must quickly sell.

[Condorich]

Sorry to dig up this old post. May I know in your opinion, what is the price difference if a project is LH or FH holding other factors constant? Meaning for a project that you are willing to buy, LH status is $700psf, if given that it is FH, how much premium are you willing to top up?

Said before $100 psf to $200 psf. Anyway it is subjective. Don't use it as the sole factor.

If you need an answer, Malaysia land swap are all LH99 in superb locations. They could have asked for FH and why did they not? I hope that you know that FH are gimmicks (in small development). The exception are FH landed (good investments). Small developments neither have the facilities and are actually worst off than a EC as it is lacking in parking space, facilities and are shorties.

As you know, FH are not really FH when the governement wants it. As long as they let u keep it, freehold is good to hold. Whether appreciate or not, secondary.

It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.

[teddybear]

I believe your hypothesis is wrong. As I mentioned before, if you want to flip (quickly sell to others to hold the babies), LH99 doesn't matter as long as in good location (that is precisely what the Malaysia govt wants! They are not going to hold the land and do nothing!). They want to sell at good price quickly! Obviously in the same location, FH is better but there is a premium to pay (and this premium is sort of subjective, but widens as the property ages and leases run-down). However, regardless of FH or 99LH, location is the utmost important factor! Location, LOCation, LOCATION!!!

It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
<- Don't learn the wrong thing hor (like keep 99LH property for 99 years! Ops!).

Said before $100 psf to $200 psf. Anyway it is subjective. Don't use it as the sole factor.

If you need an answer, Malaysia land swap are all LH99 in superb locations. They could have asked for FH and why did they not? I hope that you know that FH are gimmicks (in small development). The exception are FH landed (good investments). Small developments neither have the facilities and are actually worst off than a EC as it is lacking in parking space, facilities and are shorties.

As you know, FH are not really FH when the governement wants it. As long as they let u keep it, freehold is good to hold. Whether appreciate or not, secondary.

It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.

[DC33_2008]

If everything being equal, ie. location, etc, prospective buyers would prefer FH landed properties than LH ones.

I believe your hypothesis is wrong. As I mentioned before, if you want to flip (quickly sell to others to hold the babies), LH99 doesn't matter as long as in good location (that is precisely what the Malaysia govt wants! They are not going to hold the land and do nothing!). They want to sell at good price quickly! Obviously in the same location, FH is better but there is a premium to pay (and this premium is sort of subjective, but widens as the property ages and leases run-down). However, regardless of FH or 99LH, location is the utmost important factor! Location, LOCation, LOCATION!!!

It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.
<- Don't learn the wrong thing hor (like keep 99LH property for 99 years! Ops!).

[Condorich]

Old thread, go dig if u like

Just to refresh.

http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My+M...25-182275.html

http://www.cks.com.sg/news%20new/trendbitesmar04d.htm

20% to 25% stated as price difference between LH and FH at a comparable location.

[Condorich]

Something new

http://property.st701.com/articles/v...ar-vs-Freehold


I guess this is as clear as I can make it be

"Between choosing a FH (not near MRT) and LH (Near MRT) CONDO. I will go for the LH (near MRT) condo anytime."

If you have a FH and near MRT, that could be the best choice assuming price is reasonable.

Very clear cut FH cases... FH landed.

I avoid MM units and shorties.

[isaaclim]

I remember there used to be some discussion about LH vs FH. Where are all those nuts again?

[Wild Falcon]

Please check facts. Malaysia land swap is a bad example. Based on the 1981 railway lease agreement, those plots of land were leased by Singapore to Malaysia KTM for 999 years (not freehold) and can only be used for ONE PURPOSE - railway services. This has been clarified. This is because the Malaysians were pretty upset about the swap - most think it was a bad deal until they found out the KTM land can only be used for railway. Now that they know the swap is from useless railway land to COMMERCIAL land (albeit 99LH and reclaimed), of course they will swap. Anyone will do that. It has nothing to do with leasehold/freehold is superior etc.

Trust me. If those 999LH land across the spine of Singapore can be used for commercial and residential, the Malaysian government will NEVER have swapped. But Singapore govenment NEVER put that on the table to begin with.

Said before $100 psf to $200 psf. Anyway it is subjective. Don't use it as the sole factor.

If you need an answer, Malaysia land swap are all LH99 in superb locations. They could have asked for FH and why did they not? I hope that you know that FH are gimmicks (in small development). The exception are FH landed (good investments). Small developments neither have the facilities and are actually worst off than a EC as it is lacking in parking space, facilities and are shorties.

As you know, FH are not really FH when the governement wants it. As long as they let u keep it, freehold is good to hold. Whether appreciate or not, secondary.

It's Location Location Location and Learn from the Big Players.

[cashrich]

Please check facts. Malaysia land swap is a bad example. Based on the 1981 railway lease agreement, those plots of land were leased by Singapore to Malaysia KTM for 999 years (not freehold) and can only be used for ONE PURPOSE - railway services. This has been clarified. This is because the Malaysians were pretty upset about the swap - most think it was a bad deal until they found out the KTM land can only be used for railway. Now that they know the swap is from useless railway land to COMMERCIAL land (albeit 99LH and reclaimed), of course they will swap. Anyone will do that. It has nothing to do with leasehold/freehold is superior etc.

Trust me. If those 999LH land across the spine of Singapore can be used for commercial and residential, the Malaysian government will NEVER have swapped. But Singapore govenment NEVER put that on the table to begin with.

That not withstanding, they could have tried to bargain for it right? At least at equivalent 999 years right? Since tenure is so important to some. FH is possible if Government has to grant it. Of course there are other considerations and trade offs that are within closed doors.

Condorich has stated positive views regarding FH albeit in a qualified way. Those old FH apartments are really hoping for enblock and when DC charges are high, their chances are slimmer. But you have Good info there.

[dmonddd]

If everything being equal, ie. location, etc, prospective buyers would prefer FH landed properties than LH ones.

if you hv 2 bride/bridegroom candidates, one is young 20s and other mid 40s who would you choose



abv answer is to a general question you posed
now down to details...

[Geylang OKT]

if you hv 2 bride/bridegroom candidates, one is young 20s and other mid 40s who would you choose



abv answer is to a general question you posed
now down to details...

If I am the bride, I would prefer the richer candidate! Hahahah

If I am the bridegroom, I would prefer the one with the bigger titties.

[Wild Falcon]

Trust me, to swap for railway land for commercial land is very good deal already lah. What makes you think they never bargain? We just say "no" lah. Either u maintain your 999 year lease but can only use for railway or swap for 99 yr lease in Marina lah. Then Malaysia come back and say "I want best of everything 999 yr lease for COMMERCIAL land in Marina" and then we will say "go fly kite lah". In every negotiation, must give and take u know.

That not withstanding, they could have tried to bargain for it right? At least at equivalent 999 years right? Since tenure is so important to some. FH is possible if Government has to grant it. Of course there are other considerations and trade offs that are within closed doors.

Condorich has stated positive views regarding FH albeit in a qualified way. Those old FH apartments are really hoping for enblock and when DC charges are high, their chances are slimmer. But you have Good info there.

[Wild Falcon]

The main reason why 99LH land value maintains is becos our government wants it to. Look at the amount of misrepresentation in classifieds. Bayshore Park advertised as 99 yr lease when in reality is should be 60 year lease? And yet, the agents can go off scot free with such blatent misrepresentation.

Theoretically, a 99 LH with 50 years left land value will be halved. Even in an enbloc, the developer will have to top up 50 years based on prevailing market value of the land and whatever proceeds left for the owners might be actually lower than the market price. That's why the Bayshore and the Mandarin Gardens are so desperate to enbloc - because time is not on their side. Even year spent means another year of lease top-up to pay and sacrifice. Imagine there is only 10 years lease left - your 10 years advance rental payment will be worth just that - 10 year advance payment. a 99 year lease merely means you make advance payment of 99 years upfront and it starts amortising.

But for a brand new 99LH, probably makes no difference. But in reality, most governments rather "hide" the reality because there're so many 99LH condos out there - no one dares to disrupt the market with reality. That's why u will continue to see agents selling Bayshore Park to prospective buyers as "99 year lease" - the most blatant lie and yet govt prefer to keep it that way.

I remember there used to be some discussion about LH vs FH. Where are all those nuts again?

[devilplate]

so y bayshore park still so ex?

[vboy]

there is one reason why FH may be better than LH apartments..
that is for own stay AND space is of utmost importance.

Think about it ...

If I have a budget of $800K and I need alot of space (more than 1000sf), new developments are out of the question, cos the usable space is really 70% of the quoted area (after excluding the bomb shelter, bay windows, huge balcony, window ledge, private lobby, backyard, planters etc)

Thus I will go for an apartment more than 15 yrs old, if I go for LH properties, then 30 years down the road, (assuming no enbloc has occured) when I am about to retire and I would like to monetise my assets, my apt will only have 54 years lease left.

How to sell like that?