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Thread: Freehold vs lease hold 99 after the recent news

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    To all the ppl in this thread that has been preaching LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION & FREEHOLE FREEHOLE FREEHOLE.. could anyone enlighten this true case study?

    In 1980s

    My dad has a chance of buying a commercial spa....................

    Your father was not wrong. It's depends on what you want to run.

    Residential, commercial, industrial have their own location. F&B (ihmo) is the most critical when selecting location.

    **Pls note, when selecting location for the above, you have to consider many factors....let's talk about coffeeshop (cause I into it) factors like.... rental, crowds, operating hours, able to sell alcohol, cigarettes? halal or non halal? Nearby School, offices? What food can sell well?.....CBD area you have to compete against food courts ,your crowds might be in only few hours a day. The list can goes on.
    Jurong may sound out of the location to some but it may have all the points I wanted for a Coffeeshop...

    There are just so many factors when I decide to target a location for F&B.

    If you want to venture in Aviation industry, you should know where to buy now.

  2. #32
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    There will be lots of opinion, advice, considerations etc from many.
    If so good then there will be no poor people here....

    Ultimately one has to make his own decision.


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    let's talk about coffeeshop (cause I into it) factors like.... rental, crowds, operating hours, able to sell alcohol, cigarettes? halal or non halal? Nearby School, offices? What food can sell well?.....CBD area you have to compete against food courts ,your crowds might be in only few hours a day. The list can goes on.
    Jurong may sound out of the location to some but it may have all the points I wanted for a Coffeeshop...
    Property_Owner is also into coffeeshops!

    How do you check the transacted price of all these HDB shops? How do you know what they are worth?

    It's not in the URA or HDB databases!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Property_Owner is also into coffeeshops!

    How do you check the transacted price of all these HDB shops? How do you know what they are worth?

    It's not in the URA or HDB databases!
    Go to SLA and pay $10+ for the strata title deeds

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Go to SLA and pay $10+ for the strata title deeds
    Is that the same as the title deed?

    I don't remember the title deed stating the last transacted price of the property.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Is that the same as the title deed?

    I don't remember the title deed stating the last transacted price of the property.
    I don't remember the exact form you need..
    but i remember going down to pay $$ and get a document that shows the last transacted price for a particular shophouse. It's per shophouse.. so you need to know the shophouse number for them to get the deed.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Property_Owner is also into coffeeshops!

    How do you check the transacted price of all these HDB shops? How do you know what they are worth?

    It's not in the URA or HDB databases!
    Previous transaction not an main issue. So could be selling @ loss. If the location good then it worth to buy and invest in. Don't be surprise if I know the owners well. Mainly trade within the circles.
    Prices are not determined by valuation. It's just between both parties but negotiation is done by 3rd party(agent).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!!!

    That is very valuable information indeed!

    Is there anyway to check the transacted price and rental of these HDB shops?

    I have been searching for such information HIGH and low and HIGH and low and all the property agents are clueless!
    1. Your agents are residential property agent and know shit about commercial/industrial properties.

    2. Buy information from respective boards. It won't give you the past transaction figure but give you past owners details and charge lodge which is the same as what you want.

    3. Rental could be find out from "stamp" board.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    My analysis is on residential property, as commercial properties is a purely bought for yield investment, the LH does not matter.

    FYI I personally own 99LH commercial property and am on the lookout for higher yield commercial property regardless of lease status. I use such returns from LH properties to fund my FH purchases.

    By the way your father's LH properties would probably not go past your son and your grandchildren may not enjoy it fully. I am looking at my descendants.
    1. Commercial and not to compare with residential? Fair enough. But however, there are cases though less frequent that a LH poorer location could win a better FH location.

    2. Individual way of handling things, no comment.

    3. Since when my grandchild need to enjoy it? (Maybe she also don't want) The intrinsic value maybe zero upon expire of lease but the harvest value in between could be so great that could beat down another FH or like what you said, fund another FH.

    Or simply do a gear up with a 1% to 2% interest and put into some STI defensive that could easliy yield dividend of 4%-8% per annum. In a more simpler term, I coin it as "disposable asset" or a business tool, thats all. You all really poison by, was it "propertism"?

    In any case I ask my 9 months old grandchild she wan ar not, she said "ga ga" then some saliva flow out.. I suppose she dont wan..

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    My Dad and Grandad both a freehold industrial land 45 years ago, and when my Dad retires a few years, he sold it at 250 times of that price. It is near a new mrt stn and city fringe. They also bought a FH landed property 40 years ago and now it worth 150 times. It is also near the city and surrounded by all the mrt stns of N-E line, Circle line and W-E lines. So! I believe that property prices will continue to rise in the long term but some rise faster and more than the others with respect to LOCATION. Look for places that have limited freehold or 999LH properties in prime area. Limited edition is always better. Stone will become a diamond someday.
    Any property that raise to even 500 times will remain the original capital outlay until it been capitalise, till then, it is still remain as "it is" on book unless you mortgage on it which will then move to another field where you assume liability with interest.

    Rental is a recurring revenue which transform the property to a business tool without appreciating the true value.

    My point is, old money will remain as old money until it get transform to new money for some good use and soon, your descendant will percieve your new money as their old money. Doing nothing is always nothing.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    Good post. That is why I say location AND FH status is a much better formula than location, location, location alone. Those of us who inherit old money (property) would actually experience and know this.
    I inherit almost an entire building in one of the lorong of Geylang. Actually I still don't know what to do with this "old money (property)" of yours. I no experience, how?

    Btw, when you comment "good post", seriously, was it really good OR just because it agree and concurred with you?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Your father was not wrong. It's depends on what you want to run.

    Residential, commercial, industrial have their own location. F&B (ihmo) is the most critical when selecting location.

    **Pls note, when selecting location for the above, you have to consider many factors....let's talk about coffeeshop (cause I into it) factors like.... rental, crowds, operating hours, able to sell alcohol, cigarettes? halal or non halal? Nearby School, offices? What food can sell well?.....CBD area you have to compete against food courts ,your crowds might be in only few hours a day. The list can goes on.
    Jurong may sound out of the location to some but it may have all the points I wanted for a Coffeeshop...

    There are just so many factors when I decide to target a location for F&B.

    If you want to venture in Aviation industry, you should know where to buy now.

    My father was NEVER wrong. The only thing he did wrongly was kick the bucket 2 weeks before his great-grandchild was borned. hahhahahah...

    I agree with the rest of your comments just that I'm applying similar principle to residential properties as well. Thats why I don't really agree with your earlier post of "Location, Location, Location.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Is that the same as the title deed?

    I don't remember the title deed stating the last transacted price of the property.
    It not really title deed, it stated the ownership history with caveats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    I inherit almost an entire building in one of the lorong of Geylang. Actually I still don't know what to do with this "old money (property)"
    Wow ... you're rich loh!

    You can redevelop into office and collect rental!

    I've an uncle who inherited an old building sitting on more than 100,000 sq ft of freehold land, which he maximised the plot ratio by redeveloping into almost 400,000 sq ft of office space (ownself do en bloc).

    It's a suburban area, like yours, so assuming office rental of $3 psf per month ...

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Btw, when you comment "good post", seriously, was it really good OR just because it agree and concurred with you?
    Both and .

  16. #46
    xebay11 is offline New Launch Project Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Btw, when you comment "good post", seriously, was it really good OR just because it agree and concurred with you?
    Both and for .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Wow ... you're rich loh!

    You can redevelop into office and collect rental!

    I've an uncle who inherited an old building sitting on more than 100,000 sq ft of freehold land, which he maximised the plot ratio by redeveloping into almost 400,000 sq ft of office space (ownself do en bloc).

    It's a suburban area, like yours, so assuming office rental of $3 psf per month ...
    It is good only if there is a demand for rental especially during economic downturn and competition from garment related agencies giving competitive rental rates. You probably have to engage a managing agent to do the adminstrative work and even chasing after the rent. Otherwise, there will be bad debt. You can increase your cash flow by selling a few floors and keep the rest for rental.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    My Dad and Grandad both a freehold industrial land 45 years ago, and when my Dad retires a few years, he sold it at 250 times of that price. It is near a new mrt stn and city fringe. They also bought a FH landed property 40 years ago and now it worth 150 times. It is also near the city and surrounded by all the mrt stns of N-E line, Circle line and W-E lines. So! I believe that property prices will continue to rise in the long term but some rise faster and more than the others with respect to LOCATION. Look for places that have limited freehold or 999LH properties in prime area. Limited edition is always better. Stone will become a diamond someday.
    Why you bought Southbank?

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Why you bought Southbank?
    For location, height and view at reasonable price then!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    It is good only if there is a demand for rental especially during economic downturn and competition from garment related agencies giving competitive rental rates. You probably have to engage a managing agent to do the adminstrative work and even chasing after the rent. Otherwise, there will be bad debt. You can increase your cash flow by selling a few floors and keep the rest for rental.
    The irony (or power?) of PROPERTISM is that the rental he receive in one month is more than the original cost of the entire piece of land.

    Keeping the entire land within the family has the advantage that in future my cousins can sell it to condo developers or redevelop it themselves.

    Actually redeveloping into condo is another option apple3 can consider. Even if the land is zoned as "business", it can still be developed into SOHO home office (like SOHO @ Central). They're effectively residential apartments but able to register as offices as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    The irony (or power?) of PROPERTISM is that the rental he receive in one month is more than the original cost of the entire piece of land.

    Keeping the entire land within the family has the advantage that in future my cousins can sell it to condo developers or redevelop it themselves.

    Actually redeveloping into condo is another option apple3 can consider. Even if the land is zoned as "business", it can still be developed into SOHO home office (like SOHO @ Central). They're effectively residential apartments but able to register as offices as well.
    hahahhahahah... how I wish..

    1. Important: The street is lorong "even" number
    2. Important: Plot ratio 2.8 has been fully utilise to allowable GFA
    3. Due to the location, the archi, pe, qp, survey & bp are going to hit me hard
    4. construction cost and plimin come harder
    5. If all these still don't hurt me, the dp and dc will kill me

    Dont know about the future, but definitely not now with all the clans and temples around it. paying the unappreciate annual value propt tax seems a better alternative.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Dont know about the future, but definitely not now with all the clans and temples around it. paying the unappreciate annual value propt tax seems a better alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    In any case I ask my 9 months old grandchild she wan ar not, she said "ga ga" then some saliva flow out.. I suppose she dont wan..
    From your two posts above, I know what your granddaughter is trying to say ...

    What she means is that: once those clans and temples are gone in the future, and Geylang is cleaned up, she is going to be as rich as Lady Gaga!


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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    From your two posts above, I know what your granddaughter is trying to say ...

    What she means is that: once those clans and temples are gone in the future, and Geylang is cleaned up, she is going to be as rich as Lady Gaga!


    hahhahah... ya, sure.
    and thinking of it make her saliva drooling..

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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3, 28 March 2010 8.53 pm
    hahhahah... ya, sure.
    and thinking of it make her saliva drooling..
    Beside passing her your wealth and asset, remember to train her to play the piano when she is 4 (just like Lady Gaga) so that she can be as good as Lady Gaga when she grows up.

    Bad Romance
    Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
    Performed by: Lady Gaga
    MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4Y...eature=channel

    Poke Face
    Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
    Performed by: Lady Gaga
    MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGL...eature=channel


    Just kidding though. Have a funny Sunday night!

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    Just wondering, is there anymore new freehold or 999 land anywhere left in Singapore? Seems like all the new land releases by the govt are 99 years only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    Beside passing her your wealth and asset, remember to train her to play the piano when she is 4 (just like Lady Gaga) so that she can be as good as Lady Gaga when she grows up.

    Bad Romance
    Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
    Performed by: Lady Gaga
    MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4Y...eature=channel

    Poke Face
    Music & Words by: Lady Gaga & RedOne
    Performed by: Lady Gaga
    MTV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bESGL...eature=channel


    Just kidding though. Have a funny Sunday night!
    Nope. Educate her is the role of my son & daughter-in-law not mine. But I would always suggest a free hand without imposing anything for her.

    My job is to pamper and spoilt her. For my wife is bathing and diaper changing. But we don't mind extending financial support for her upbringing though. Like those "daylight robbery" 2k per mth dou dou class. Btw, is there any nursery in kind listed company in Singapore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeoprop
    Just wondering, is there anymore new freehold or 999 land anywhere left in Singapore? Seems like all the new land releases by the govt are 99 years only.
    Lee Kuan Yew said: "No one should own a piece of land eternity" and since then, government sale land no longer freehold, only 99. (This took place in the fifties or earlier sixties)

    As for 999, the deed occur since straits settlement.

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    "No one should own a piece of land eternity" comes from the chinese saying "生人霸死地" and has its origins in feudal times where indentured peasants toil their whole lives in servitude to landlords.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Like those "daylight robbery" 2k per mth dou dou class. Btw, is there any nursery in kind listed company in Singapore?
    depending on how old she is, there are tonnes of infant "enrichment" classes these days, ranging from Shichida to Gymboree to Kindermusik to GUG and what not....

    Oh yes, don't forget to secure a place for her in the top kindergarten/childcare.... The good ones (eg Nanyang Kindergarten, Maris Stella, St James) have waiting list that stretch all the way to the womb!

    Don't know of any Nursery in Kind listed Co though..... might be risky business.... remember ABC Learning in Aust?

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    "No one should own a piece of land eternity" comes from the chinese saying "生人霸死地" and has its origins in feudal times where indentured peasants toil their whole lives in servitude to landlords.
    Well said. But isn't it ironic that years later after china cultural revolution, the landlords role simply shift from individual to party? Ma chiam single landed property transform to collectively ownership. hahahhaha

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