Why are New Launches doing so well compare to Secondary Market?

[bullman]

but Tao Nan so hot, even within 1km still need to ballot?

Hi bro. Yes thats tight. I was an old boy there also so I hope to stand a higher better chance as I qualify for an earlier phase.

[xebay11]

Hi bro. Yes thats tight. I was an old boy there also so I hope to stand a higher better chance as I qualify for an earlier phase.

Don't you get phase 1A?

[bargain hunter]

LOL...then already sure win, no need to be 1km right? but better make sure you register for alumni or something (i heard that's necessary?)

Hi bro. Yes thats tight. I was an old boy there also so I hope to stand a higher better chance as I qualify for an earlier phase.

[proud owner]

I know some members here are quite bored by my news clippings, which appeared again and again.

I'm so sorry about that but I have to bring them up again to defend our beloved Mickey Mouse.

The Observer

Sunday 16 March 2003

Imagine paying more than £100,000 for a 300 sq ft flat and having to throw out half your clothes to fit into it.

This was reality for 23-year-old sales negotiator Francesca Osborne when she bought her flat in London's Islington 18 months ago. She paid £108,000, and at last count the flat was worth £155,000, despite its diminutive dimensions.

She is not alone in paying prices that, to many, will seem silly for tiny homes. Agents say that there are more buyers chasing small flats than properties available. This is just as well because the Microflat - a trademarked blueprint of a super-svelte living space, which is big on design and small on expense - is being hailed as one solution to Britain's inner city housing crisis.

lets do some maths ..

forget the size first

at 108k GBP for 300 sqft ... thats 360 GBP/sqft = 773 SGD / sqft

so 773 psf (SGD) equivalent in LONDON ...

what about in Singapore ?
900-1000 psf outside Orchard ..

so she got a good deal .. it was cheap ..

at 155k GBP for 300 sqft = 517 /sqft (GBP) = 1109 psf SGD ..

again ..we are talking about London ..a world cosmopolitan ..where bankers are still paid millions (5-10 USD) in bonus ..

what about singapore ?

far north , far west all already above or close to 1000 psf ..

are we comparing those places with London ?

[sleek]

Think need to compare 2003 prices right?

lets do some maths ..

forget the size first

at 108k GBP for 300 sqft ... thats 360 GBP/sqft = 773 SGD / sqft

so 773 psf (SGD) equivalent in LONDON ...

what about in Singapore ?
900-1000 psf outside Orchard ..

so she got a good deal .. it was cheap ..

at 155k GBP for 300 sqft = 517 /sqft (GBP) = 1109 psf SGD ..

again ..we are talking about London ..a world cosmopolitan ..where bankers are still paid millions (5-10 USD) in bonus ..

what about singapore ?

far north , far west all already above or close to 1000 psf ..

are we comparing those places with London ?

[proud owner]

Think need to compare 2003 prices right?

well yes

i also used 155k GBP / 300 sqft which was the most current according to the report

still it worked out 1100 psf (SGD) ..

so LONDON = SINGAPORE suburb ?

thats quite absurb dont u think ?

[sleek]

well yes

i also used 155k GBP / 300 sqft which was the most current according to the report

still it worked out 1100 psf (SGD) ..

so LONDON = SINGAPORE suburb ?

thats quite absurb dont u think ?

Like the famous phrase goes "Are we there yet?".

[jlrx]

lets do some maths ..

forget the size first

at 108k GBP for 300 sqft ... thats 360 GBP/sqft = 773 SGD / sqft

so 773 psf (SGD) equivalent in LONDON ...

what about in Singapore ?
900-1000 psf outside Orchard ..

so she got a good deal .. it was cheap ..

at 155k GBP for 300 sqft = 517 /sqft (GBP) = 1109 psf SGD ..

again ..we are talking about London ..a world cosmopolitan ..where bankers are still paid millions (5-10 USD) in bonus ..

what about singapore ?

far north , far west all already above or close to 1000 psf ..

are we comparing those places with London ?

Singapore's land should be more valuable than London's. Hence Singapore is grossly undervalued.

Singapore (682.7 sq km) is the capital of Singapore (682.7 sq km) whereas London (1,706 sq km) is the capital of UK (244,820 sq km).

They have much more land to expand beyond London, but we are surrounded by the sea.

Ng Teng Fong: ‘You open the map. If you can’t see the place (because it’s too small) but only the name, that’s the place to invest in…Singapore and Hong Kong are the best examples.’

[teddybear]

I think not a fair comparison. London is so big! London Islington is like in Belestier already. Looks like still more expensive than most Belestier properties? + we have to note that in any central regions also have those more cheap-skate cousins (e.g. in Cairnhill most properties sold at >$2000 psf but Casa Cairnhill sold at about $12xx+ psf only - This example probably similar as Casa Cairnhill?)

well yes

i also used 155k GBP / 300 sqft which was the most current according to the report

still it worked out 1100 psf (SGD) ..

so LONDON = SINGAPORE suburb ?

thats quite absurb dont u think ?

[Reporter]

I think not a fair comparison. London is so big! London Islington is like in Belestier already. Looks like still more expensive than most Belestier properties? + we have to note that in any central regions also have those more cheap-skate cousins (e.g. in Cairnhill most properties sold at >$2000 psf but Casa Cairnhill sold at about $12xx+ psf only - This example probably similar as Casa Cairnhill?)

Agree with you.

London is a metro city with many cities (aka suburbs). We can't just say "London". We need to pinpoint the city (aka suburb), e.g. City of London, etc..

Singapore, although being much smaller, is like a metro city too. We can't just say "Singapore". We need to pinpoint the suburb too, e.g. Ang Mo Kio, etc..

[proud owner]

Singapore's land should be more valuable than London's. Hence Singapore is grossly undervalued.

Singapore (682.7 sq km) is the capital of Singapore (682.7 sq km) whereas London (1,706 sq km) is the capital of UK (244,820 sq km).

They have much more land to expand beyond London, but we are surrounded by the sea.

Ng Teng Fong: ‘You open the map. If you can’t see the place (because it’s too small) but only the name, that’s the place to invest in…Singapore and Hong Kong are the best examples.’

size is one thing but we cannot ignore the history , the infrastructure , the culture, the arts, the vibrance, the freedom of expression without the need to apply for permit ..etc ..which spore still lacking ..

[teddybear]

Sorry, don't think "freedom of expression without the need to apply for permit" has much effect on property prices.
Talk of history, culture and arts, Singapore is much more deeper than UK (Chinese culture of 6000 years vs the British culture of 2000 years?)
Talk of transport and road infrastructure, Singapore much much better than UK.
Talk of vibrancy, Singapore's Orchard Road probably already surpasses UK's Oxford Road.

Looking at all these factors, actually Singapore's Orchard Road properties should be many times more than London city core central properties!

size is one thing but we cannot ignore the history , the infrastructure , the culture, the arts, the vibrance, the freedom of expression without the need to apply for permit ..etc ..which spore still lacking ..

[proud owner]

Sorry, don't think "freedom of expression without the need to apply for permit" has much effect on property prices.
Talk of history, culture and arts, Singapore is much more deeper than UK (Chinese culture of 6000 years vs the British culture of 2000 years?)
Talk of transport and road infrastructure, Singapore much much better than UK.
Talk of vibrancy, Singapore's Orchard Road probably already surpasses UK's Oxford Road.

Looking at all these factors, actually Singapore's Orchard Road properties should be many times more than London city core central properties!

guess we all have different standards ..

with arts = i refers to exhibitions, plays , musical, concerts ..
singapore have also .. but seriously .. can compare ?

museums , gardens, parks .. singapore also have .. can compare ?

transports .. do we have bus drivers who would come down to help old folks ?

do we have bus that can lower to curb level and allow a wheel chair on board ?

do we allow cyclists to wheel into the subway ? or even a foldable bicycles ?



at any one time .. there are more visitors at Bonds Street, Oxford , than in Orchard road ...

i am not booing singapore cos we are still in the making ..

just that we are getting too fast ahead of things .. prices running way ahead of whats value

anyway everyone have different standards ..

so lets drop this ... dont want people to think i "SPG"

[amk]

we cannot ignore the history , the infrastructure , the culture, the arts, the vibrance ..

for one, I agree with you on this, that SG lacks the above.

however, pty prices in SG (and HK) *should* be higher, simply because of the very specific Asian context:

1) Asia is a very densely populated place. For any one place for sale, there are always at least 100 potential buyers. In western europe/USA, there is no such thing.
2) Cosmopolitan Asian cities are in a very unique situation: only rich/stable spot among a vast land of poorer countries. As a result all the riches at the surrounding area flock to the same spot. HK benefits from China, SG benefits from Indo/India/M'sia/etc. Such scenario doesn't exist in western Europe/US, not to that extent.
3) Asian's (particularly Chinese) value system is very different from the west. Property is believed to be much more valuable than other assets. It's not just another asset. Asians dun believe in funds. Rich families always buy land, buy houses. Ang Mo's idea of "property" is quite different. They never really understand the Asian's obsession with pty. None of the top riches in the west is from property. Most of the top riches in Asia are from property. Asians are always willing to pay more for a pty. Ang Mos never.
4) Market difference: in most parts of western europe, pty transaction is heavily regulated. capital gain tax or in kind is a matter of norm. cost of a property transaction is very high. And in NY you can't just anyhow buy a place for those co-ops, you need to get approval even if you have the money. Socialist systems discourage any speculation on pty. There is no volume/liquidity. Asian markets are far from tightly regulated. Ppl play it at will.

These above factors are the fundamental reasons why Asian property market has always been, and always will be, above western countries. Until the day comes when whole of Asia are as rich as the rest.

[HP65]

Exactly, invest in ppty where there is a presence of Asians. And Asians are found in many places, not just in Singapore. I also like to invest in countries And the suburb where Asians sent their children for further studies. It has worked for me time and again without fail.

[Regulators]

You know why our prices are such? The entire Singapore is much smaller than London.

lets do some maths ..

forget the size first

at 108k GBP for 300 sqft ... thats 360 GBP/sqft = 773 SGD / sqft

so 773 psf (SGD) equivalent in LONDON ...

what about in Singapore ?
900-1000 psf outside Orchard ..

so she got a good deal .. it was cheap ..

at 155k GBP for 300 sqft = 517 /sqft (GBP) = 1109 psf SGD ..

again ..we are talking about London ..a world cosmopolitan ..where bankers are still paid millions (5-10 USD) in bonus ..

what about singapore ?

far north , far west all already above or close to 1000 psf ..

are we comparing those places with London ?

[Regulators]

Singapore's history may be short, but our history and nation building process is far more interesting than England. It took just 30 odd years to go from 1 pound=SGD9 to 1 pound=SGD2.

size is one thing but we cannot ignore the history , the infrastructure , the culture, the arts, the vibrance, the freedom of expression without the need to apply for permit ..etc ..which spore still lacking ..

[proud owner]

Singapore's history may be short, but our history and nation building process is far more interesting than England. It took just 30 odd years to go from 1 pound=SGD9 to 1 pound=SGD2.

ahahha


ok ok

i think i kana from everyone big time

we are lucky ...

we singaporeans are very obedient people ...thats why govt has a easy job to get things done their way

however in a big country .. dont think our govt can have much to boast about ..

if our govt cannot even get Soo Zhou project done after spending so much time and money ..... what does it say ?


we are good only becos we are small ...
so i disagree that 30 yrs of wonder can compare to others ..

yes its impressive ... but to manage a country of this size is alot easier than to manage one where a city is already bigger than our country

put them to run those HUGE countries .. i think it would take a few hundred years to get thing right too ..

so nothing to boast about

yes 1 gbp = 2 sgd now ...impressive ....

so ...we should be buying london properties ...cheaper now ...
after all so many singaporeans are still sending their children to study UK, US, Aust right ???

so everything else singpaore still better ....

education ? if we are really good .. why so many still go overseas to study ? including ministers' children .. ? tell me ?

[cheerful]

aiyooooo ... no need to keep repeating Suzhou lah, we all know abt it. The pt here is, as what amk has said, Asian properties cld be seen as a different breed (or maybe people seen as diff breed). No need to always compare with the angmo, can choose to be a little different (or maybe unique) anot har

[teddybear]

Not that UK no good, at least their people are more civilised, courteous, their politics much more open, their legal and original infrastructure so much more complete that Singapore has started off using all their things (legacy of their colonial state), their system much more humane and considerate for the old and disabled and incapable...

guess we all have different standards ..

with arts = i refers to exhibitions, plays , musical, concerts ..
singapore have also .. but seriously .. can compare ?

museums , gardens, parks .. singapore also have .. can compare ?

transports .. do we have bus drivers who would come down to help old folks ?

do we have bus that can lower to curb level and allow a wheel chair on board ?

do we allow cyclists to wheel into the subway ? or even a foldable bicycles ?



at any one time .. there are more visitors at Bonds Street, Oxford , than in Orchard road ...

i am not booing singapore cos we are still in the making ..

just that we are getting too fast ahead of things .. prices running way ahead of whats value

anyway everyone have different standards ..

so lets drop this ... dont want people to think i "SPG"

[Allthepies]

guess we all have different standards ..

with arts = i refers to exhibitions, plays , musical, concerts ..
singapore have also .. but seriously .. can compare ?

museums , gardens, parks .. singapore also have .. can compare ?

transports .. do we have bus drivers who would come down to help old folks ?

do we have bus that can lower to curb level and allow a wheel chair on board ?

do we allow cyclists to wheel into the subway ? or even a foldable bicycles ?



at any one time .. there are more visitors at Bonds Street, Oxford , than in Orchard road ...

i am not booing singapore cos we are still in the making ..

just that we are getting too fast ahead of things .. prices running way ahead of whats value

anyway everyone have different standards ..

so lets drop this ... dont want people to think i "SPG"

Do we have shops that close at 5pm everyday?

[teddybear]

You still living in 60s in London? No lah, they open until very late already in major cities like London.

Do we have shops that close at 5pm everyday?

[urban]

Not that UK no good, at least their people are more civilised, courteous, their politics much more open, their legal and original infrastructure so much more complete that Singapore has started off using all their things (legacy of their colonial state), their system much more humane and considerate for the old and disabled and incapable...

Really?
Shortcomings are everywhere if you look hard at it.
Didn't the British MPs get censured for their outrageous expense claims?
Civilised and courteous? It depends. What about the soccer hooligans and the class divide?

Everywhere is the same. We have the same basic DNA to do good and bad. And it is the same everywhere.

[Regulators]

For one very simple reason, becoz we dont have that many places for our local uni and the courses offered are limited and may not be what the students here are interested to do (e.g. Degree in Art history, Sports Science etc). Also for certain courses in great demand here, it is easier to get into unis like University College London and University of Melbourne than NUS.

education ? if we are really good .. why so many still go overseas to study ? including ministers' children .. ? tell me ?

[Wild Falcon]

For the SAME job, London salary is about 3x that of Singapore. Cost of living also 3x. Cannot use London as reference point for Singapore. A fresh grad lawyer earn 5k pound. A fresh grad lawyer in SG only earns $5k SGD.

I think not a fair comparison. London is so big! London Islington is like in Belestier already. Looks like still more expensive than most Belestier properties? + we have to note that in any central regions also have those more cheap-skate cousins (e.g. in Cairnhill most properties sold at >$2000 psf but Casa Cairnhill sold at about $12xx+ psf only - This example probably similar as Casa Cairnhill?)

[Wild Falcon]

Singaporean buyers are mostly showflat lemmings - I jump you jump - make them feel better. Either they (i) buy from showflats (ii) old condos beside showflats because "suddenly" they realise the neighbour is cheaper. That's why only certain areas with a lot of new launches garner a lot of interest. Economics say high supply = > prices will come down. Singapore is the exact opposite. When an area has a glut of new supply e.g. east coast, the prices of the surrounding ares actually goes up because those who cannot snap a unit at the showflat will go next door. It's the most irrational property market in the world driven by herd instinct and mindless greed - no one cares about value investing - just follow and invest in crowded areas. The worst part is the PR machine of the property agents and "consultants" are in full force - always promoting that Singapore property prices can ONLY go up because we should be the same price as Hong Kong and because IR will make foreigners snap up our property - all sentiments without looking at fundamentals.

[kali-yuga]

Bro:

What can you expect from people here whom like to look at things from one angle at close distance?

Believe that you are a "market person", so how do you expect to explore the reality with people whom read TODAY, Straits Times, Biz Times and ZaoBao.

They are wonderful read a few years ago for me until I began to read some other sites and blogs that I realised I am on the Blue pill all this while.

The counter arguement why we should have a higher pty here is we are in Asia....Asia this Asia that.....
Sound so much like those mutual account/fund managers.......isn't it?

ahahha


ok ok

i think i kana from everyone big time

we are lucky ...

we singaporeans are very obedient people ...thats why govt has a easy job to get things done their way

however in a big country .. dont think our govt can have much to boast about ..

if our govt cannot even get Soo Zhou project done after spending so much time and money ..... what does it say ?


we are good only becos we are small ...
so i disagree that 30 yrs of wonder can compare to others ..

yes its impressive ... but to manage a country of this size is alot easier than to manage one where a city is already bigger than our country

put them to run those HUGE countries .. i think it would take a few hundred years to get thing right too ..

so nothing to boast about

yes 1 gbp = 2 sgd now ...impressive ....

so ...we should be buying london properties ...cheaper now ...
after all so many singaporeans are still sending their children to study UK, US, Aust right ???

so everything else singpaore still better ....

education ? if we are really good .. why so many still go overseas to study ? including ministers' children .. ? tell me ?

[jlrx]

I find it strange that property buyers are labelled as "mindless", "showflat lemmings" and described as being only able "to look at things from one angle at close distance".

"Showflat lemmings" are people with cash to play the property market, so are they at the bottom of the economic ladder struggling with mortgage payments, or right at the other end?

If they were really "mindless" and only able "to look at things from one angle at close distance", how could they have come this far in life?

Look at the bald guy at the right of the photo below (who could be Property_Owner since he said he had started to bald).

"Hairless" maybe, but definitely not "mindless".

I was there for the preview of Ghost, but a bit too tao kay for me...Also wifey find e name scare e shit out of her...
Maybe will get a Maserati GTS after CNY....no intention to sell e S5...

Wonder whether the one sitting in the car above is Property_Owner?

No la, already told u I had started to bald...That can't be me...