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Thread: Horzion Residences@Pasir Panjang hill.Coming Your Way Soon!!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    that was in 06 ...

    2.1 mio = 1000 psf ..

    u judge ..

    to enbloc at least 1500 psf otherwise owner not keen ..

    at 1500 psf .. develoerps will have to sell at least 2000 psf ( 300 psf const cost + 200 psf profit margin)

    2000 psf for the new condo at pasir panjang ??? then orchard will be 5000 psf ... will take years for PP to reach 2000 psf ...
    wow that was long ago.. I never/dare not think of going into property during that time cos pocket not deep. Work very hard until these days and realized ppty price really go sky high - very sad.

    I guess first owner will not object since they bou at low low price? This will mean that anyone buying now will risk not able to take back their capital if 80% of the owners agree to en-bloc

    what if they make MM condos? at least this area dont have many mm units...

    so meaning that we have to get condo that is around 600psf then at least got hope to en bloc amongst other things such as locations etc.

    Thanks for replying

  2. #32
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    its take more info to noe whether a project enbloc viable anot...its not so simple by just looking at current psf..

    nid to look at plot ratio, landsize...mabe last time GFA not fully utilised

    btw, anybody knows how to check a land size of a particular condo?

  3. #33
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    ya agree.. also must within walking distance to MRT as well.

  4. #34
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    I agree it'll be tough to en bloc these developments but not impossible, once the land prices rises over the ever depreciating building structures.
    (The old and sickly must give way to the new - regardless of how unique.)

    There are many factors to determine if en bloc is practical.
    Land size (and shape), per plot ratio of the land (ppr = land price), plot ratio (PR=built-up intensity) and location. (PSF in the area is another story but affects the owners/developers motivation)
    Most variable will be the PPR. (Even slopes/hills can be worked by the developers eg Peak@ Balmeg, Flamingo Valley or Sophia Residences)

    For eg. Flynn Park is 208,433k sf of land. At 1.4x PR, that gives 291,806 of potential GFA. Key question is what is the ppr or land price? $650ppr? or $690ppr? or more esp with MRT and other indicators mentioned before.
    Let's take a ppr of $670, that gives a land value is $196m. With 72 units, thats $2.72m per unit.
    But I suspect it'll take more to entice to part with the land - that is the gamble in investing in EB potential properties.

    (Benchmarks - Goodrich Park went EB at $629 ppr (Serangoon/with MRT)
    Pender Court went EB at $1008 ppr (D4/with CCL coming)
    Culford Gardens went EB at $632 ppr (Siglap/with no MRT)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattydrama
    20-30 years, like that my neck very long leh. In the case, it could be better to put my money in Jurong Lake District at least is like 15 years.

    In 20 years time, Woodlands could also be developed with water front features less the port.
    Would you put your money in Woodlands or Jurong Lake District then?

    Posted this image from URA website. West Coast station on the map is renamed Haw Par Villa station and the blue / purple areas are developments like One-north, Mapletree business city etc


    --------------------------
    Singapore plans to keep coastal engineers busy for the next 20 years

    BUILDING & ENGINEERING | Singapore plans to keep coastal engineers busy for the next 20 years

    A waterfront city, a consolidated port and more land reclamation could keep Singapore's coastal engineers busy for the next twenty years.


    Not bad for a tiny little island. Singapore's Economic Strategies Committee (ESC), has a few plans in the pipeline that will keep the nation's coastal engineering sector busy for the next three decades or so.



    The Economic Strategies Committee, whose objective is to develop and recommend strategies to grow the nation as a leading global city in the heart of Asia, has plans to make a waterfront city, a consolidated port and continue to reclaim land according to a report from the committee.



    The waterfront city which will be located where the current Tanjong Pagar, Keppel and Pulau Brani port is located may begin construction upon the expiration of the port's lease terminals in 2027. The Economic Strategies Committee decision behind the waterfront city was a "strategic shift to a productivity-driven economy requires us to make bold moves to re-plan our city and recycle land to support new economic activities," the report said.
    And the waterfront city will also bring about spin-off industries that will revolve around proposed waterfront city. "With a land area comparable in size to Marina Bay, this area can be comprehensively master-planned and progressively redeveloped as a new waterfront city with the potential to capture international attention. This will potentially allow for a substantial expansion of the business district, integrated with waterfront housing, hotels, lifestyle and tourism uses," the Economic Strategies Committee said in a note.



    But where will the ports containers and cargo go?



    Tuas. The ESC is considering under Concept Plan 2011 the feasibility of a consolidated port at Tuas in the long term, which will have with adequate handling capacity to ensure continued competitiveness. "If feasible, it will increase port efficiency by allowing the port to achieve greater economies of scale in terms of land and operations, and free up existing port land to support new economic activities in the future," said the ESC.



    Finally the ESC has stated that although land reclamation has been an area that Singapore has excelled at in the past, there will be limitations with this process going forward which may force Singaporeans underground.
    "While we can expand our land mass through reclamation as we have done for Marina Bay, there will be limits in the long-run. In the next 10 years, the government should seek to catalyse the development of underground space as a means to intensify land use," the ESC stated in their report.



    http://www.sbr.com.sg/news/2622

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn108
    I agree it'll be tough to en bloc these developments but not impossible, once the land prices rises over the ever depreciating building structures.
    (The old and sickly must give way to the new - regardless of how unique.)

    There are many factors to determine if en bloc is practical.
    Land size (and shape), per plot ratio of the land (ppr = land price), plot ratio (PR=built-up intensity) and location. (PSF in the area is another story but affects the owners/developers motivation)
    Most variable will be the PPR. (Even slopes/hills can be worked by the developers eg Peak@ Balmeg, Flamingo Valley or Sophia Residences)

    For eg. Flynn Park is 208,433k sf of land. At 1.4x PR, that gives 291,806 of potential GFA. Key question is what is the ppr or land price? $650ppr? or $690ppr? or more esp with MRT and other indicators mentioned before.
    Let's take a ppr of $670, that gives a land value is $196m. With 72 units, thats $2.72m per unit.
    But I suspect it'll take more to entice to part with the land - that is the gamble in investing in EB potential properties.

    (Benchmarks - Goodrich Park went EB at $629 ppr (Serangoon/with MRT)
    Pender Court went EB at $1008 ppr (D4/with CCL coming)
    Culford Gardens went EB at $632 ppr (Siglap/with no MRT)

    Thanks for sharing. Can I ask how are we going to obtain info on ppr? Is this transparent to us?

    Also where to find the land size of each project? Or hopefully the forumer here can compile for D5? :-)

    Notice Panjang Panjang's pr is 1.4x set by URA while some other areas is at 2.8x. Do you think there is any potential to up the plot ratio? If no, why not?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyacinthus
    Would you put your money in Woodlands or Jurong Lake District then?

    Posted this image from URA website. West Coast station on the map is renamed Haw Par Villa station and the blue / purple areas are developments like One-north, Mapletree business city etc
    Jurong Lake District is a sure thing as it is already in the master plan. However, for Pasir Panjang its still yet to be finalised? I think Pasir Panjang will have a lot of potential. The port issue is a minus point at the moment.

    Woodlands will consider if project is next to Woolands MRT. Any idea what is gov's plan on those empty plots of land near the MRT? These empty plots are there for 12 years since causeway point TOP.

    Woodlands is basically a self sufficient town and the roads there are wider, with less traffic density, people not staying in Woodlands will not passby. You can basically work there (alot of food industries, 3M etc at admiralty road west, gambus avenue and even further north Yishun) without coming out of woodlands. There are plenty of lands waiting to be developed and there is no condo near MRT at the moment.

    The sad thing is HDB price in Woodlands are cheaper and seems like more PRCs now.

  8. #38
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    PR and height restriction set by URA.
    For Pasir Panjang, I think it's going to be 1.4x for a long time. Reason: I think has something to do with blending of the overall landscape - being there is alot of landed properties there.

    If the ports move (20 year time!), then those will be 2.8x. (just like in the East Coast, 2.8x by ECP and 1.4x on the inside roads with landed).

    As for PPR, that is the variable question.
    You have to gauge from recent nearby launches and work backward or from recent nearby en bloc to get a good guide.

    So eg. Balestier, Diamond Twr went for 6xx ppr in q1 2010. Now watch for Melrose Court for q3. Both 2.8x plot ratio and pretty similar in size.


    Quote Originally Posted by rattydrama
    Thanks for sharing. Can I ask how are we going to obtain info on ppr? Is this transparent to us?

    Also where to find the land size of each project? Or hopefully the forumer here can compile for D5? :-)

    Notice Panjang Panjang's pr is 1.4x set by URA while some other areas is at 2.8x. Do you think there is any potential to up the plot ratio? If no, why not?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn108
    PR and height restriction set by URA.
    For Pasir Panjang, I think it's going to be 1.4x for a long time. Reason: I think has something to do with blending of the overall landscape - being there is alot of landed properties there.

    If the ports move (20 year time!), then those will be 2.8x. (just like in the East Coast, 2.8x by ECP and 1.4x on the inside roads with landed).

    As for PPR, that is the variable question.
    You have to gauge from recent nearby launches and work backward or from recent nearby en bloc to get a good guide.

    So eg. Balestier, Diamond Twr went for 6xx ppr in q1 2010. Now watch for Melrose Court for q3. Both 2.8x plot ratio and pretty similar in size.
    If we are expecting the port to move in 20 years - no way. The construction of Pasir Panjang mega container terminal was divided into 4 phase over 30 years. Land reclamation started in 1993-4. So PPT will be fully operational in 2024.

    So make you think after spending billions of dollars reclaming land, instaling monster size quay cranes, building highway/flyovers to connect it with Tanjong Pagar, Keppel and Brani that it will relocate in 20 years time PPT has a capacity of handling over 30 million twenty-foot containers a year. If relocate, where to go man? Singapore do not have a very long coastline you know. You also need deep waters to handle the new generation of giantic container vessels so suitable sites for ports are limited. Furthermore, PPT is built with the intention of taking over the volume from Tanjong Pagar terminal so that the latter could be de-commissoned when lease end.

    The current talk of a possible port at Tuas is more to replace Keppel and Brani terminal as these two are also sitting on prime land.

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    I believe PSA sign a long lease with the government for the PPT land. If not, who will divide the construction over 30 years.

    I reckon the lease to be at least 50 years from the completion of phase I when the port became partially operational in 2000.

  11. #41
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    It may be a 50:50 case. When PSA sign the long lease, did the government consider the coming of the casinos and 2 IRs, investment on medical science and education hubs which can reap high yields? Probably not, if it was signed long long time ago.

    The future aspirations give way to the current. What is planned long time ago may need to be revisited in order to stay relevant.

    If after the study by government, Tuas is a more viable choice in terms of proximity to Jurong Industrial Estate coupled with deep water, I think it can be convinced.

    Moreover, create jobs for Singaporeans and boost the economy. With such big scale, can justify for their million dollars pay as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by wesing
    I believe PSA sign a long lease with the government for the PPT land. If not, who will divide the construction over 30 years.

    I reckon the lease to be at least 50 years from the completion of phase I when the port became partially operational in 2000.

  12. #42
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    Agreed. But then it will take at least another 20-30 years or so to construct a mega container port to fully replace Pasir Panjang if your replacement scenario comes true.

    Singapore is still the largest container port in the world. Port operations will remain as the vital pillar of sg economic activity regardless of the IR and other new developments.

    If there is a need to shift, I would think that keppel and brani terminals will go first before Pasir Panjang. The land there are definitely more prime.

    Btw, photo of the Pasir Panjang container terminal is attched below. Land reclamation is currently underway on the right of the terminal (towards labrador park).

    What do you think is the chances of relocating this mega project which costs billions of dollars (probably more than the 2 IRs added together) to construct in the first place?

    Last edited by wesing; 26-07-10 at 12:38.

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    The extension to the current Pasir Panjang container port (currently still reclaiming land) is show in the photo below.


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    wow...but we may not live tat long to see it happen...even if it does....oredi too old to enjoy the windfall

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    Nice pictures. Thanks.

    I think Pasir Panjang area will remain less crowded with the PSA being there. That's a good think for some and not so good thing for others.

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    Government is going to review this as reported. Don’t have any clue on how much is the relocation cost and the opportunity cost. Is shifting out good for D5 property? Will there be less rental opportunity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rattydrama
    Government is going to review this as reported. Don’t have any clue on how much is the relocation cost and the opportunity cost. Is shifting out good for D5 property? Will there be less rental opportunity?
    I dun think there is much existing rental support from the PSA staff. The port is ultra-modern and very automated. Anyway, most employees are Singaporean.

    If the shift ever ever materializes, it means more waterfront living for Singaporeans. Condo could line up the wharfs used to be occupied by the gigantic quay cranes and container boxes By then, the reclaimed land should be solid enough to take tall buildings.
    Last edited by wesing; 26-07-10 at 14:02.

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    The government has not announced anything. The shift of Tg Pagar was recommendations of an economic subcommittee, and is unofficial till sanctioned.

    But that's tanjong pagar.

    There are no plans previously, presently or in the future for pasir panjang terminal to be moved, at least not for the next few decades or more. In Fact, PPT will be expanded. Almost a billion has been spent on this expansion to date, with $632m in 2010 alone.

    Budget 2010 (http://www.mof.gov.sg/budget_2010/ex...rview/mot.html)

    $632 million will be spent in FY2010 to expand the Pasir Panjang Terminal. The Port of Singapore has a current capacity of around 32 million twenty-foot equivalent units (TEUs). The expansion of the Pasir Panjang Terminal will raise the total port capacity to around 50 million TEUs when it is completed and operational, providing capacity to support future growth of the port and to maintain our position as one of the world’s leading transshipment hubs.

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    the government is now building a flyover in front of the entrance of PP port. Right at this moment!!!! You guys must be kidding yourself with this silly talk.

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    Sfoo, thanks for sharing with us these datas & info. With such huge investment, its unlikely and almost impossible to shift in the near future. Its reported Tanjang Pagar but earlier post by forumer also mentioned Pasir Panjang so my views earlier was open.

    For investors who view port & pollution as a factor, Pasir Panjang price will face some resistance.


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    better buy double bay residence in d18 and it is highly undervalued and great chance to go upppppppp due to singapore 4th uni.

    Quote Originally Posted by rattydrama
    Sfoo, thanks for sharing with us these datas & info. With such huge investment, its unlikely and almost impossible to shift in the near future. Its reported Tanjang Pagar but earlier post by forumer also mentioned Pasir Panjang so my views earlier was open.

    For investors who view port & pollution as a factor, Pasir Panjang price will face some resistance.

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    Agree.

    The sight of cranes and the flyover give PP a very industrial feel.
    Even the buildings there serve a more warehouse-type function.

    Not sure if the cranes bring pollution, but PP/East Coast will remain a more rustic environment than compared to its East Coast sister.

    There are a few things going for it though which is the CCL and less congestion.

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    This project quite gd among the available FEO projects now.

    recently peak@balmeg transacted 1300psf for a 2bedder.

    nice furnishings at the showflat...big piece marble flooring...coffeemaker, fridge, washer/dryer, wine cellar, dish washer everything in. minimum wastage on the flrplan for the 2bedder...no planter box and only baywindow at the master bedrm. 5th flr and PH not for sale.

    left with the last 2bedder unit, 1001sqft and was quoted ard 14xxpsf (still can nego abit more if got loyalty blah blah)....it is not overpriced considering subsale peak@balmeg hit 1300psf....but this one u goto wait till 2013/2014....FEO most likely will sell at higher prices for those 5th flr units later on if u noe their pattern...

    worth taking a look if u r looking to buy peak@balmeg currently and dun mind waiting for 3yrs.

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    In lieu of the construction of Singapore's first Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal on Jurong Island with a initial capacity of 3.5 million ton per annum (by 2013) and expandable to 6 mtpa, wonder whether if there is a blast in the LNG termnal, will it also destroy West Coast and Pasir Panjang

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    Quote Originally Posted by wesing
    In lieu of the construction of Singapore's first Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal on Jurong Island with a initial capacity of 3.5 million ton per annum (by 2013) and expandable to 6 mtpa, wonder whether if there is a blast in the LNG termnal, will it also destroy West Coast and Pasir Panjang
    wah...imagine buy horizon...waited for 3yrs and when it almost TOP den suddenly....

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    Even less congestion after the explosion - .

    Horizon is not too bad in finishing but 1.4k psf for that area seems over priced. Peak @ Balmeg just riding on FEO pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wesing
    In lieu of the construction of Singapore's first Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal on Jurong Island with a initial capacity of 3.5 million ton per annum (by 2013) and expandable to 6 mtpa, wonder whether if there is a blast in the LNG termnal, will it also destroy West Coast and Pasir Panjang

    In east coast people scare of Indonesia earth quake in west coast scare of this, scare this scare that better still in JB lar! Anything can happen anyway anytime

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn108
    Even less congestion after the explosion - .

    Horizon is not too bad in finishing but 1.4k psf for that area seems over priced. Peak @ Balmeg just riding on FEO pricing.
    Vision 99 yrs already 1100-1200psf this one FH 1.4k not unreasonable lar! AMK 99yrs already how much this one somemore near Vivo and sentosa. Like that better stay in HDB lar

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    Near Sentosa's another island may house our future Nuclear plant?
    May be central part of Singapore is better if anything happen from the surroundings of Singapore will be shielded by those at those at the coasts?

    Quote Originally Posted by cher
    In east coast people scare of Indonesia earth quake in west coast scare of this, scare this scare that better still in JB lar! Anything can happen anyway anytime

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    Default S$1688 psf!

    The URA data shows 2 units have been sold at S$1688 psf with total cost of S$2.2M (for a 3 bedder!)
    What if the interest rate goes up after 2 years? Are the buyers like the Sentosa Cove type who simply pays in cash?!
    Are we entering a bubble now? Can the buyers or agents share with me your thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Richard

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