The Estuary

[Moo2010]

Hi.. since you are not aware of future developments in Yishun, let me try to share these info with you so that you will consider carefully if you want to exercise the option and seal the deal (seal the fate - good or bad ).

Land available for sales in Yishun.. been there for some time and not sold off... so you are probably right to say that developers will not bid for them. Even if they bid, they will be as stated "priced damn low". If so, what will happen to your investments?

1. Yishun Condo (Available for application now)

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10330p....c?OpenDocument
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2009/pr09-76a17.pdf

2. Yishun Executive Condo (Confirmed list, available in Jan 2010 but no news yet) http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/text/2009/pr09-76.html)

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10330p....3?OpenDocument
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2009/pr09-76a2.pdf

3. Yishun low rise condo, just beside your beloved shaugnessy... (available in May 2010)

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10297p..../Yshun+S5a.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2009/pr09-76a23.pdf

4. Sembawang Shopping Centre area (Strata Landed or condo or flats - available in Apr 2010..) This is a much much better location as compared to Shaugnessy if not for the reserviour view. If you have reserviour or golf course view, happy for you.

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10330p....a?OpenDocument

5. Mystery land parcels if government throw up more land for sales... beware.

Kovan Melody near MRT, and you must have sold at a profit.. but why Shaugnessy? Not near MRT at all..

The reserviour view comes with a premium... but as with all heartlander purchase, risk of loan default is extremely high and fire sales may appear from time to time... I've been to the show room and it is not impressive to me at all.. I wish you luck.

OK, let's cast "Proud Owner" this joker aside first coz he's wasting people's time and looking for respect which he don't quite get it here I guess, so lets get into business.


Hi Condorich,

Thanks for the facts and figures you've put up. you reminds me of my secondary school teachers who reminds me to read more of my textbook in order to pass my exam.
Anyway just joking and I really appreciate your advice.

Yes, in kovan I've made a profit due to its amendities and convenience. But same as Savannah.
I recall many of my friends (who claimed to be expert) had warned me before I purchase savannah 4 bedders.

They told me 4 bedders are slow to go and Savannah's location is terrible, being trap in between condos and expressways. Worst is its a LH and when I purchase, there are still 45 units left. 6 months later, things changed. All the so called "unwanted penthouses and 4 bedders" suddenly become a steal. And thankfully, I sold it off with a profit of 300K.
(after deducting stamp duty).
Savannah impressed me with its fantastic landscape and pricing (only $682K for 4-bedders). I purchase it because I feel theres alot of space in terms of profit margin.

Now why shaughnessy? The average pricing for shaughnessy is around $800K plus in 2007....for a 3400sqft clustered house? YES! damn cheap right!! (Yes, Proud Owner's favourite lines). Pls take a look at the current transaction in Shaughnessy now, all easily 1.2 to 1.3mil. So thank you for wishing me luck Mine even comes with golf course view unblocked.
So the winning formular is still profit margin study.

When I buy property, I understand location is impt, but not everything. I look at profit margin even closely. I will be frank with you why I did not commit to Estuary 2 bedder and 3 bedder. The reason is because some 2 bedder and 3 bedder though has nice reservior view, but I feel that the selling price has more or less hit the ceiling. How to determine whether a property has hit profit margin is not easy, U need to compare and look at other properties with the same profile and compare its pricing transaction and demand. (I do alot of research but still not the expert here, still learning from others, but I do have my own thots and decision making)

I commit to 1 bedder instead because I feel that 1 bedder in Yishun is scarce and the demand will be there. (Anyway I might be wrong, and if I'm wrong, just treat it as a lesson for me), I'm looking more on the rental than the quick flip kind, due to increase employment opportunities from the hospital and aerospace hub. Anyway, I feel that Estuary 1 bedder is quite cheap and affordable.Theres still room in terms of profit margin. Even it doesnt turn out what I expect, the damage would not be fatal.

Another point, I don't agree with you that Yishun HDB upgraders will likely to face loan payment issue and in the end turn Estuary into fire sales. This is not a fair judgement. Rich buyers at the sentosa cove can also ended up in loan payment issue. (Pls read last year's ST reporting a unit at sentosa cove has to be sold to the bank way below purchase price.) It all still boils down to holding power and your job stability.

Yishun HDB upgraders in general has at least 5-10 years of staying history. In recent years, there is no new launches. I am confident that this group of buyers have enough time to accumulate enough wealth (and confidence) to commit into this property. Let us not make any unfair assumptions that they might face difficulties in loan payment subsequently.

Property investment is just a gamble, as long you purchase it with all the calculated risk factored in, I think it will be fine. The rest is fate. (like what you've said, seal it with fate) Facts and figures, criticisms and praises are just differences in opinion. Some are more cautious while some are more positive. Putting money in the bank is a no no for me. I remember someone here had mentioned that property investment is a way to curb inflation. I'm supportive of this statement.

No hard feelings if I accidentally step on anyone's toes. I might be new here but definitely not new in property investment. Condorich, I might not agree with you totally but definitely you've earned my respect in terms of your opinions and analysis.
Sorry Proud Owner, though you self proclaimed to be the senior here, I still can't give you my respect. U gotta earn it from me.

[Wild Falcon]

If you look at the recent measures - progressive property tax and SSD - it is pretty clear their stand now is towards income and asset value equality across the island. The "let the rich gets richer" policy in the past does not sit well with the masses and I guess they have to re-think and backtrack their policies (just like the foreigner import policies). Recent reports about Ardmore Park selling at record prices from an Indonesian to PRC does not sit well because foreigners are benefiting from the "let the rich gets richer" policies in the past.

I thought our Govt's stand is the other way round (vs HK)? I remember they said the rich can take care of themselves, so banks' personal loans and credit card limit etc to the rich are not restricted to 2x their income vs the normal average people. The same is true for many other policies (e.g. $100 to get entry to Casino etc, the rich won't feel a pinch for the $100 but not the average people. Also, if you accredited investor, you can invest in anything but the law will not protect you if you lose your trousers). If mass market properties and HDBs are to be over-priced much above the average income of general population, that is genuine bubble and they said they will be very concerned. If the prime & luxury properties are catered to the rich, then definitely they will be much much over-priced vs average income of general population, what bubble is there to the rich and the economy as a whole?

[teddybear]

May be my analysis is flawed, but I look at it this way:

1) Progressive property tax : What is the additional property tax payable by the rich compared to the scrapped estate duty taxes that they already saved? The additional property taxes are small change to the rich (but not so for the poor and the middle income living in HDBs and mass market condos and as such they now pay slightly lesser in the new scheme).

2) Sellers' stamp duty: This is imposed for selling a property within 1 year. Who will this policy affect badly? Again, it is the middle income group living in mass market condos. Does the rich really need to be so hard-up as to sell a property within 1 year to incur the SSD just because they can't pay the monthly instalment? Nah, I doubt so (else they won't be called the 'rich' - the 'rich' I refer to here are the "really rich" ones who usually own prime properties and multiples of them). They probably can hold for 100 years if need be and never incur additional SSD if govt so change the policy to 3 years or 5 years to incur SSD etc.

I don't believe that any policy can really achieve asset value equality or income equality. Even if a govt introduces minimum wages, the rich and the high income will pay themselves even much more to become at same multiples to minimum wages. Who will be the loser at the end? If asset value equality can be achieved, we would have Pinnacle @ Duxton selling at about the same price as HDB in Yishun or Woodlands (which obviously is plain impossible).

If you look at the recent measures - progressive property tax and SSD - it is pretty clear their stand now is towards income and asset value equality across the island. The "let the rich gets richer" policy in the past does not sit well with the masses and I guess they have to re-think and backtrack their policies (just like the foreigner import policies). Recent reports about Ardmore Park selling at record prices from an Indonesian to PRC does not sit well because foreigners are benefiting from the "let the rich gets richer" policies in the past.

[Wild Falcon]

Not sure why people always want others to lose money and post such nasty things? Other people getting poorer doesn't necessary means u get richer right? Not invested in Estuary but I think different people have different investment strategies. The way I see it. The city prime area is largely developed. How much greater upside if we build another 10 shopping malls in mall-fatigued Orchard Road? Maybe at most another 10%-20%? If you invest in an unpolished gem in the suburban areas, your upside potential and value creation will be higher when it becomes more developed, amenities enhanced and transportation links improved. That's why it's important to look at masterplans and new MRT lines etc. Remember, investing is about value creation and asset enhancement- not about prime or not prime. The key is to look for unpolished gems with good potential, not those gems which are already polished and fully valued.

Anyway, it's always more fun and challenging looking for unpolished gems To each his own.

[Wild Falcon]

I recall one research report (can't remember which bank - maybe Goldman) which take the view that the recent policies clearly indicate our gov is no longer taking a lasseiz faire attitude towards the rampant high end speculation. You may want to search for it.

If you look at the recent measures - progressive property tax and SSD - it is pretty clear their stand now is towards income and asset value equality across the island. The "let the rich gets richer" policy in the past does not sit well with the masses and I guess they have to re-think and backtrack their policies (just like the foreigner import policies). Recent reports about Ardmore Park selling at record prices from an Indonesian to PRC does not sit well because foreigners are benefiting from the "let the rich gets richer" policies in the past.

[teddybear]

I never say I want people to lose money or become poorer. In fact, I am trying to convey my view and people can judge for themselves (may be they will as a result earn tons of money of which I will be very happy for them).
My message is that there is no possibility of equality of prices between prime properties in for example Orchard and those mass market condos in eg Yishun or Woodlands. If there is such possibility, we should first see that HDB flats in Yishun or Woodlands selling at about the same price as eg Pinnacle@Duxton, Dawson Place etc (since all are about same quality and built by HDB, the only difference is their location). I don't believe we will ever see that.

Not sure why people always want others to lose money and post such nasty things? Other people getting poorer doesn't necessary means u get richer right? Not invested in Estuary but I think different people have different investment strategies. The way I see it. The city prime area is largely developed. How much greater upside if we build another 10 shopping malls in mall-fatigued Orchard Road? Maybe at most another 10%-20%? If you invest in an unpolished gem in the suburban areas, your upside potential and value creation will be higher when it becomes more developed, amenities enhanced and transportation links improved. That's why it's important to look at masterplans and new MRT lines etc. Remember, investing is about value creation and asset enhancement- not about prime or not prime. The key is to look for unpolished gems with good potential, not those gems which are already polished and fully valued.

Anyway, it's always more fun and challenging looking for unpolished gems To each his own.

[teddybear]

Regardless of whatever govt's policy on curbing property prices, if they affect the rich ones, the killing effect will definitely be 10-100x or more on the general people buying mass market condos as they have significantly 'peanut' reserve to withstand whatever draconian policies that may be introduced (Do you think they can introduce a policy which says this area (e.g. D9) subject to draconian curbs & restrictions whereas the other areas (e.g. D26 etc) is not?).

I recall one research report (can't remember which bank - maybe Goldman) which take the view that the recent policies clearly indicate our gov is no longer taking a lasseiz faire attitude towards the rampant high end speculation. You may want to search for it.

[jitkiat]

Regardless of whatever govt's policy on curbing property prices, if they affect the rich ones, the killing effect will definitely be 10-100x or more on the general people buying mass market condos as they have significantly 'peanut' reserve to withstand whatever draconian policies that may be introduced (Do you think they can introduce a policy which says this area (e.g. D9) subject to draconian curbs & restrictions whereas the other areas (e.g. D26 etc) is not?).

But PAP can import 200k middle class immigrants that cannot afford D9/D10 but HDBs / suburb mass market condos isn't it?

[august]

If you look at the recent measures - progressive property tax and SSD - it is pretty clear their stand now is towards income and asset value equality across the island. The "let the rich gets richer" policy in the past does not sit well with the masses and I guess they have to re-think and backtrack their policies (just like the foreigner import policies). Recent reports about Ardmore Park selling at record prices from an Indonesian to PRC does not sit well because foreigners are benefiting from the "let the rich gets richer" policies in the past.

pty is all about locationx3

the rich did not get richer by plonking down on non-prime locations

& distinction between prime and non-prime locations will never be equalised

e.g. take a look at Caspian.. when it was launched, the redevelopment & potential of jurong east district was bandied about as a key selling point. Today the plot for Big Box remains abandoned, gathering weeds and rain ponds. i am not saying the Jurong thing is a dud. But it is important to see where our govt's infrastructure & economic priorities lie.

[Condorich]

Hi Condorich,

Thanks for the facts and figures you've put up. you reminds me of my secondary school teachers who reminds me to read more of my textbook in order to pass my exam.
Anyway just joking and I really appreciate your advice.

No worries, just share, nobody has perfect knowledge and even with proper analysis, things could go wrong.. just hope that luck is with you always

I commit to 1 bedder instead because I feel that 1 bedder in Yishun is scarce and the demand will be there. (Anyway I might be wrong, and if I'm wrong, just treat it as a lesson for me), I'm looking more on the rental than the quick flip kind, due to increase employment opportunities from the hospital and aerospace hub. Anyway, I feel that Estuary 1 bedder is quite cheap and affordable.Theres still room in terms of profit margin. Even it doesnt turn out what I expect, the damage would not be fatal.

This is very wise indeed... remember the advice, buy within your means? It is another exampe of being able to finance it or take the losses... never a case of total loss...

Another point, I don't agree with you that Yishun HDB upgraders will likely to face loan payment issue and in the end turn Estuary into fire sales. This is not a fair judgement. Rich buyers at the sentosa cove can also ended up in loan payment issue. (Pls read last year's ST reporting a unit at sentosa cove has to be sold to the bank way below purchase price.) It all still boils down to holding power and your job stability.

That's a general statement, I may be wrong to comment about the past buyers. However, this could happen at this project. One thing is for sure.. price appreciation is not very much in Yishun... except maybe your Shaugnessy unit. In fact I have viewed it during its launch and I must agree with you that it is really value for money... However, the prices now may be at its peak if other new launches are at a lower price or if there's a change in demand for them. What is important is that the owners appreciates it and stay there happily.

Property investment is just a gamble, as long you purchase it with all the calculated risk factored in, I think it will be fine. The rest is fate. (like what you've said, seal it with fate) Facts and figures, criticisms and praises are just differences in opinion. Some are more cautious while some are more positive. Putting money in the bank is a no no for me. I remember someone here had mentioned that property investment is a way to curb inflation. I'm supportive of this statement.

No worries about real estate... at least you can rent it out in bad times.... as long as you don't sell...you will not realise the paper lose.. except for mortgage top up call by banks. Ride out the recession and you can hope for a winning sale later on.

In a forum, which is really like real life, all we need is to show others some grace... there's really no point to argue and add on to the stress that we have to face. If you are not as rich, not yet a condo investor or just a newbie, your postings could be valuable too.... Just share your own honest opinion and stay cool...

[DKSG]

I would propose that people here DO NOT need to tell the public they made how many hundreds of thousands in this or that condos ...

Seriously, the discussion here is not for people to showcase (genuinely or fictitiously) / showoff their whatever ...

If you want to make such statements, kindly scan a copy of the caveats lodge on BOTH your buy and sell transactions with your name and transacted price ... thats the only way you are stating a fact ...

And trust me, people here ARE really NOT interested on that ...

DKSG

[Sea]

Updates:

Fully Sold Stacks


Stacks 01, 02, 12, 19

Rest of the stacks with limited units

or otherwise not release yet

Sms at 90686016 for booking.

[Condorich]

I would propose that people here DO NOT need to tell the public they made how many hundreds of thousands in this or that condos ...

Seriously, the discussion here is not for people to showcase (genuinely or fictitiously) / showoff their whatever ...

If you want to make such statements, kindly scan a copy of the caveats lodge on BOTH your buy and sell transactions with your name and transacted price ... thats the only way you are stating a fact ...

And trust me, people here ARE really NOT interested on that ...

DKSG

I don't think that is the real intention.. People share their success so that it can support their investment strategies or view points...and it really gives their opinion weight... as without it, people are just smoking.

Anyway always take it it with a pinch of salt...

As always, even if they post rubbish... you have to read it before realising that it is junk... However, what may appear as junk can be valuable insights to those who can make their own analysis leading to the right decisions.

[Moo2010]

Not sure why people always want others to lose money and post such nasty things? Other people getting poorer doesn't necessary means u get richer right? Not invested in Estuary but I think different people have different investment strategies. The way I see it. The city prime area is largely developed. How much greater upside if we build another 10 shopping malls in mall-fatigued Orchard Road? Maybe at most another 10%-20%? If you invest in an unpolished gem in the suburban areas, your upside potential and value creation will be higher when it becomes more developed, amenities enhanced and transportation links improved. That's why it's important to look at masterplans and new MRT lines etc. Remember, investing is about value creation and asset enhancement- not about prime or not prime. The key is to look for unpolished gems with good potential, not those gems which are already polished and fully valued.


Anyway, it's always more fun and challenging looking for unpolished gems To each his own.

I do agree with Falcon, to invest in an unpolish gem and look for its hidden good potential rather than prime or not prime.
My investment in Savannah, kovan, is a good example. Study profit margin first before you commit. Not die die must have prime location when its already at its peak price and peak development. Sometime be flexible.

My uncle bought the sail at $900K plus psf. (obviously not at its ceiling price yet) He sold off at $1700psf. Now probably its value had exceeded $2K psf for some stacks. Do you think my uncle will be so stupid to buy it back again and hoping it would sell $3k to $4K psf when that area is already at its peak of development? Even if it has not reached its ceiling yet, it will be super risky to throw in such huge amt of $$ to invest.
So why not turn into something not yet discovered and study its potential? At least the risk factor is not that high.

I believe there's a ceiling price for any properties, be it prime or non prime.

[Moo2010]

I would propose that people here DO NOT need to tell the public they made how many hundreds of thousands in this or that condos ...

Seriously, the discussion here is not for people to showcase (genuinely or fictitiously) / showoff their whatever ...

If you want to make such statements, kindly scan a copy of the caveats lodge on BOTH your buy and sell transactions with your name and transacted price ... thats the only way you are stating a fact ...

And trust me, people here ARE really NOT interested on that ...

DKSG

Thats just your point of view.
Some would like to see more success stories posted by others so it will benefit others.
Lets be magnanimous and accept it. Different people have different investment strategies. Le
If you dont believe, just ignore. Others might be interested to know.

[Condorich]

I do agree with Falcon, to invest in an unpolish gem and look for its hidden good potential rather than prime or not prime.
My investment in Savannah, kovan, is a good example. Study profit margin first before you commit. Not die die must have prime location when its already at its peak price and peak development. Sometime be flexible.

My uncle bought the sail at $900K plus psf. (obviously not at its ceiling price yet) He sold off at $1700psf. Now probably its value had exceeded $2K psf for some stacks. Do you think my uncle will be so stupid to buy it back again and hoping it would sell $3k to $4K psf when that area is already at its peak of development? Even if it has not reached its ceiling yet, it will be super risky to throw in such huge amt of $$ to invest.
So why not turn into something not yet discovered and study its potential? At least the risk factor is not that high.

I believe there's a ceiling price for any properties, be it prime or non prime.

Precisely....

If you are buying for investment... you have to think about who are likely to buy it from you at what time and at what price.... then you work backwards to see if the risk is worth taking it...You have to be prepared for the worst case scenarios also....

In fact you are mainly helping the next buyer with their new home purchase and making it ready for them to move in when they need a roof... therefore, you need to work out the sums carefully and of course, sell them at a price that they will find it as fair and yet able to give you decent returns... if it is clearly out of reach of the target group, don't dive in.

Some things are clearly out of reach of the oridinary folks and it is better to stay clear from those... as always buy within your means.

[Moo2010]

Precisely....

If you are buying for investment... you have to think about who are likely to buy it from you at what time and at what price.... then you work backwards to see if the risk is worth taking it...You have to be prepared for the worst case scenarios also....

In fact you are mainly helping the next buyer with their new home purchase and making it ready for them to move in when they need a roof... therefore, you need to work out the sums carefully and of course, sell them at a price that they will find it as fair and yet able to give you decent returns... if it is clearly out of reach of the target group, don't dive in.

Some things are clearly out of reach of the oridinary folks and it is better to stay clear from those... as always buy within your means.

A 10 mil (prime district) condo I might have only a pool of 10 buyers who can afford it.
A 1 mil (non prime district) condo I might have more than 1000 buyers who can afford it.
Which one is likely to sell first and is less risky? You decide.

I'm not saying prime district condo are risky, but study its profit margin first. For example, The timming to buy and sell "The Sail" is very important and will determine whether you have maximize your profit.

Anyway just to clarify, shaughnessy is bought for stay, not investment.

Kovan, savannah and Estuary are more for investment.

I wonder hows the sales for Estuary today? Still no brochures yet after I bought it last week till now.

[proud owner]

I don't think that is the real intention.. People share their success so that it can support their investment strategies or view points...and it really gives their opinion weight... as without it, people are just smoking.

Anyway always take it it with a pinch of salt...

As always, even if they post rubbish... you have to read it before realising that it is junk... However, what may appear as junk can be valuable insights to those who can make their own analysis leading to the right decisions.

you have my respect ...

not once i see you use strong words on others ...well done

[Condorich]

you have my respect ...

not once i see you use strong words on others ...well done

Thanks for the compliments... I can walk or talk proudly in the forum now even I don't have as much worth as you, perhaps even change my nick to proud_condo and drop the rich..... (joking)

A 10 mil (prime district) condo I might have only a pool of 10 buyers who can afford it.
A 1 mil (non prime district) condo I might have more than 1000 buyers who can afford it.
Which one is likely to sell first and is less risky? You decide.

Yes, its a pyramid structure, study the workings of multi-level marketing and you could understand it better... however instead of looking at it from a top down perspective, change it to a bottom up perspective.

I'm not saying prime district condo are risky, but study its profit margin first. For example, The timming to buy and sell "The Sail" is very important and will determine whether you have maximize your profit.

Anyway just to clarify, shaughnessy is bought for stay, not investment.

Kovan, savannah and Estuary are more for investment.

I wonder hows the sales for Estuary today? Still no brochures yet after I bought it last week till now.

Prime districts have a lot of room for price appreciation... especially if they are FH and well designed. The thing about it is back to your affordability and your loan servicing and holding power... these are not for the majority salaried folks as the loan to income level could be very very high for them... It is in a different league. When it corrects, these would be affected more as compared to mass market prices. When it appreciates, these would appreciate more than mass market prices. Question is whether you can stomach the fall in valuation and live to hope for another day or be totally wiped out (fried or burnt).

The considerations for self stay are really different from buying for investments. Not as price sensitive if buying for self stay but very sensitive when it comes to investment choices. Less emotions are attached to investments when it comes to selling also. That is why you have old folks who will never sign on the enblock forms even if they are offered 2x above the market rate... sentimental value can be priceless to some.

However, things might change after sometime and what started out as self stay may be sold if the owners decides to find another better place to stay. It could be re-classified as investment gain/loss thereafter depending on the sold price.

On brouchers, why would they allow it to happen? Would you not be concerned if they don't deliver a tap or a fitting when it comes to TOP time or delayed the delivery? If I am buying, this could seriously change my mind as it really tells me that I am not valued as much as a customer and they cannot even do the most basic thing right... How many days, weeks and months have gone by since they got the approval for the building plans... have a thought, a real serious one and perhaps you will be saved by it (my opinion, make your own call nevertheless).

(Sometimes we are blind to our mistakes unless proven so.. such as choosing the wrong life partner and got married.... mistakes do happen from time to time and we usually find out after some time.... )

[gfoo]

i love these forums as they really help educate me and provide insights into how others think. So forgive me if i ask:

How and why is a 1 bedroom in the far north, bought at $800psf (vs $350 @ 2008), considered an investment property?

[Moo2010]

i love these forums as they really help educate me and provide insights into how others think. So forgive me if i ask:

How and why is a 1 bedroom in the far north, bought at $800psf (vs $350 @ 2008), considered an investment property?

My parent bought a four room flat in hougang for $45K 25 years ago. Now the resale price is around $250K or so. Would I be asking the current buyer why you spend so much money to buy a $45K HDB at hougang?

Well, sometimes its the market trend and times are different. I bought savannah 4 bedder (1500sqft) for $682K 3-4 years ago (abt $450psf), would I expect this kinda of price to happen again? Don't think its possible anymore. We must accept that the market price is moving up. Of coz, must be at an acceptable rate and level.

1 bedder in elsewhere, even non-prime area are costing ard $1K plus psf.
Yishun 1 bedder has its potential as it is scarce. Job opportunities from hospital and 10000 employment opportunities in aerospace hub are the two reasons why I invest or maybe others might think likewise. (I look at demand and supply).
I feel Yishun is an unpolish gem, any development will only make the housing here appreciate rather than depreciate. (In other words, it can't be worst). Yishun compared to sembawang and woodland are much better in terms of accessibility. SLE is easily accessible to any place.

2-bedder in Estuary is also ard $800psf. 1 bedder $psf suppose to be higher than this (since smaller unit psf is always higher than the bigger units) but it turn out to be almost the same. So I think 1 bedder is worth buying.

Anyway, its just my point of view, no one will be right or wrong. I shall treat it as a lesson learned if I'm wrong, but then 1 bedder is cheap, so not an issue. But if you are thinking of quick flip for 1 bedder within short time frame, bro, I think its not possible. I bought this property I know I must hold till the right time. Just my .

Cheers

[moneyspinner]

Feb 28, 2010

Buyers throng The Estuary

Over 300 of 350 released Estuary units snapped up in the wake of new anti-speculation rules

By Leonard Lim


THEY came, they saw, they bought.
As of yesterday, more than 300 of about 350 units in The Estuary condominium that were released for sale have been snapped up.
The MCL Land project in Yishun is the first major property launch since measures were announced by the Government last week to curb speculation.
These were: stamp duty to be paid if the buyer sells the property within a year, and lending institutions allowed to lend only up to 80 per cent of the property's value, not 90 per cent.
Yesterday, more than 80 pairs of shoes were seen outside The Estuary's showflat when The Sunday Times visited at 1.30pm.
The number increased steadily to more than 100 pairs by 2pm as people came to check out the 99-year leasehold condo.

[peterng8]

I do agree with Falcon, to invest in an unpolish gem and look for its hidden good potential rather than prime or not prime.
My investment in Savannah, kovan, is a good example. Study profit margin first before you commit. Not die die must have prime location when its already at its peak price and peak development. Sometime be flexible.

My uncle bought the sail at $900K plus psf. (obviously not at its ceiling price yet) He sold off at $1700psf. Now probably its value had exceeded $2K psf for some stacks. Do you think my uncle will be so stupid to buy it back again and hoping it would sell $3k to $4K psf when that area is already at its peak of development? Even if it has not reached its ceiling yet, it will be super risky to throw in such huge amt of $$ to invest.
So why not turn into something not yet discovered and study its potential? At least the risk factor is not that high.

I believe there's a ceiling price for any properties, be it prime or non prime.

thanks for giving an insight of your strategy in property investment...appreciate that...

[Condorich]

Feb 28, 2010

Buyers throng The Estuary

Over 300 of 350 released Estuary units snapped up in the wake of new anti-speculation rules

By Leonard Lim


THEY came, they saw, they bought.
As of yesterday, more than 300 of about 350 units in The Estuary condominium that were released for sale have been snapped up.
The MCL Land project in Yishun is the first major property launch since measures were announced by the Government last week to curb speculation.
These were: stamp duty to be paid if the buyer sells the property within a year, and lending institutions allowed to lend only up to 80 per cent of the property's value, not 90 per cent.
Yesterday, more than 80 pairs of shoes were seen outside The Estuary's showflat when The Sunday Times visited at 1.30pm.
The number increased steadily to more than 100 pairs by 2pm as people came to check out the 99-year leasehold condo.

I don't really trust the newspaper reports.. even if it is accurately reported, the fact remain that it may be manipulated, especially when you have enough financial power. Such as take the units out from the primary market, then set the baseline pricing and offer the units on the secondary market at a higher pricing...

Who can do the proper investigation? and would they really be bothered about it? Never ever reported in the news if i am correct. However, I do have to agree that what is reported may actually be factually true. Make your own guess and judgement...

As for the lack of 1 bedders in Yishun... should you not be wondering why developers are reluctant to offer 1 bedders in Yishun? A likely conclusion is that there's no demand for it and not a case of lack of supply. Drawing the wrong conclusions can be costly. if one developer had failed to make the right judgment, it is not so clear... but the reason remained that so many developers in Yishun had agreed or had not provided 1 bedders until the most expansive land was bidded and sold in Yishun.

Why would a normal PR or HDB folk buy a one bedder in Yishun at $500k or above when they can get a 4 or 5 room at those prices at the same District or even nearer to MRT? Which one are they more likely to go for? if they like 1 bedders, why don't they lock themselves up in one HDB room and rent out the rest of the rooms and better off in terms of returns...

Anyway your decisions may be right as it takes another buyer who thinks like you and buy from you at your price... two wrongs could make a right in this case.

BTW, a word of caution, 1 bedders likely to come on when the bus interchange gets redeveloped into a mix residential and commercial development similar to Toa Payoh Bus Interchange... however, not sure when are they going to redevelop it and if they do provide them, they are not likely to be cheap also. If they offered it as a price lower that what you have paid... I think your investment choice could really turn out bad. But if they priced it way above what you have paid, say 25% more.. you may gain something in between the price differentials. It's your bet.

[peterng8]

personally i like this development quite a lot - excellent place for me to 'retire' in. but pictures vs reality is grossly different and i might relook this at TOP. let others take the economic and contruction outcome risks.

the only issue i have is that most heartland condos have this terrible habit of hanging laundry on balconies cheapnening the facade of many - hope things change

i will be watching this one closely

yesterday went to see at around 2pm....wow the agents are all like eagles looking sharply at every visitor who appeared at the entrance.. as yesterday i was shown the price of 1 bedder cheapest at S$497XXX(500 plus sqft),greenery view...2+S which has reservoir view at S$800 K ..

[Squall8888]

To me, assets are always investments. I know many people say I buy to stay. Ya right. If prices drop 50%, see whether that person will kpkb or not.

Anyway, buy within your own means. If you have money, then play sail or MBR. If I not very rich, then maybe I can play 1 bedders in outskirts. And if I have no spare cash, then I can consider buying HDB with 90% loan. So you have different market catering to different people. You cannot take that speculative element out ! Like those people wanting cheap HDB are doing now. If so, then we will really see HDB dropping 50%.

Sometimes, I really pity those old people. Because their asset price might be screwed by those young couples who kpkb to lower the HDB price. Imagine, I have a 500k HDB and wanting to retire. Suddenly, prices drop to 350k. I will have to wait longer to retire.

My parent bought a four room flat in hougang for $45K 25 years ago. Now the resale price is around $250K or so. Would I be asking the current buyer why you spend so much money to buy a $45K HDB at hougang?

Well, sometimes its the market trend and times are different. I bought savannah 4 bedder (1500sqft) for $682K 3-4 years ago (abt $450psf), would I expect this kinda of price to happen again? Don't think its possible anymore. We must accept that the market price is moving up. Of coz, must be at an acceptable rate and level.

1 bedder in elsewhere, even non-prime area are costing ard $1K plus psf.
Yishun 1 bedder has its potential as it is scarce. Job opportunities from hospital and 10000 employment opportunities in aerospace hub are the two reasons why I invest or maybe others might think likewise. (I look at demand and supply).
I feel Yishun is an unpolish gem, any development will only make the housing here appreciate rather than depreciate. (In other words, it can't be worst). Yishun compared to sembawang and woodland are much better in terms of accessibility. SLE is easily accessible to any place.

2-bedder in Estuary is also ard $800psf. 1 bedder $psf suppose to be higher than this (since smaller unit psf is always higher than the bigger units) but it turn out to be almost the same. So I think 1 bedder is worth buying.

Anyway, its just my point of view, no one will be right or wrong. I shall treat it as a lesson learned if I'm wrong, but then 1 bedder is cheap, so not an issue. But if you are thinking of quick flip for 1 bedder within short time frame, bro, I think its not possible. I bought this property I know I must hold till the right time. Just my .

Cheers

[Moo2010]

I don't really trust the newspaper reports.. even if it is accurately reported, the fact remain that it may be manipulated, especially when you have enough financial power. Such as take the units out from the primary market, then set the baseline pricing and offer the units on the secondary market at a higher pricing...

Who can do the proper investigation? and would they really be bothered about it? Never ever reported in the news if i am correct. However, I do have to agree that what is reported may actually be factually true. Make your own guess and judgement...

As for the lack of 1 bedders in Yishun... should you not be wondering why developers are reluctant to offer 1 bedders in Yishun? A likely conclusion is that there's no demand for it and not a case of lack of supply. Drawing the wrong conclusions can be costly. if one developer had failed to make the right judgment, it is not so clear... but the reason remained that so many developers in Yishun had agreed or had not provided 1 bedders until the most expansive land was bidded and sold in Yishun.

Why would a normal PR or HDB folk buy a one bedder in Yishun at $500k or above when they can get a 4 or 5 room at those prices at the same District or even nearer to MRT? Which one are they more likely to go for? if they like 1 bedders, why don't they lock themselves up in one HDB room and rent out the rest of the rooms and better off in terms of returns...

Anyway your decisions may be right as it takes another buyer who thinks like you and buy from you at your price... two wrongs could make a right in this case.

BTW, a word of caution, 1 bedders likely to come on when the bus interchange gets redeveloped into a mix residential and commercial development similar to Toa Payoh Bus Interchange... however, not sure when are they going to redevelop it and if they do provide them, they are not likely to be cheap also. If they offered it as a price lower that what you have paid... I think your investment choice could really turn out bad. But if they priced it way above what you have paid, say 25% more.. you may gain something in between the price differentials. It's your bet.

The demand for 1 bedder will come in when theres job opportunities in Yishun area (hospital and areospace hub and probably improvement in other infrastructures that benefits the bachelor or expats in this unpolished gem). This is my bet and I've stated very clearly already in my previous posts. I understand where you coming from. But I feel there will be a demand in near future, probably not now, but gotta hold till the right time. So it still boils down to your holding power and patience to wait for the right time. If I invest in this, most impt is I must make sure my finance will not be tie down.

Previously there is no demand for 1 bedders in Yishun doesnt meaqn it will still be the same in future. In the past, job opportunities are scarce in Yishun area. Now things might be different when the development plan includes Yishun as an area to create more jobs opportunities. Don't worry condorich, no one now would be able to tell who win or who lose. Time will decide who is the winner.

[Moo2010]

[quote=Condorich]I


Why would a normal PR or HDB folk buy a one bedder in Yishun at $500k or above when they can get a 4 or 5 room at those prices at the same District or even nearer to MRT? Which one are they more likely to go for? if they like 1 bedders, why don't they lock themselves up in one HDB room and rent out the rest of the rooms and better off in terms of returns...

quote]

Yes theres possibilities they will. To lock up in one HDB room is not the same as staying in a 1 bedder condo. Not to me as in terms of quality of living. You enjoy the facilities in the condo and quality of life. Do you think the boss will provide their employees (the expats) a 1 room HDB or 1 room condo?

If everybody think that way, all HDB 4 to 5 bedder will be sold out. Condo 3 to 4 bedder all can throw inside dustbin, coz they are not price worthy to be considered.

Thats why we differentiate private property living and HDB living.

Just my

[Moo2010]

To me, assets are always investments. I know many people say I buy to stay. Ya right. If prices drop 50%, see whether that person will kpkb or not.

Anyway, buy within your own means. If you have money, then play sail or MBR. If I not very rich, then maybe I can play 1 bedders in outskirts. And if I have no spare cash, then I can consider buying HDB with 90% loan. So you have different market catering to different people. You cannot take that speculative element out ! Like those people wanting cheap HDB are doing now. If so, then we will really see HDB dropping 50%.

Sometimes, I really pity those old people. Because their asset price might be screwed by those young couples who kpkb to lower the HDB price. Imagine, I have a 500k HDB and wanting to retire. Suddenly, prices drop to 350k. I will have to wait longer to retire.

Squal8888, you've pointed out one very impt point.
There's always speculative element whether you buy for stay or for investment. As long it is within your means and limits then should be ok.

[Wild Falcon]

The problem is those who bought the so-called prime properties are no longer the high net worth staying in GCBs. They are the middle class - that's why the units are now getting so small such that the price of a prime condo sometimes is cheaper than a suburban one of good size. Think about it. Even the developed admitted that they can no longer sell normal size units in the prime locations anymore because affordability is not there. That's why they go back to the drawing board to only sell studios or 2 bedders. A wealthy person wouldn't want to stay in a place meant for a pet dog. Staying in a hotel for a few days is fine, but forever is a nightmare. When units need to get so small to sell, it is worrisome.

And don't look down the HDB upgraders ability to afford a mass market condo without a huge loan. They made quite a lot from their HDB flats and many young couples would have risen up the ranks over the years.

Regardless of whatever govt's policy on curbing property prices, if they affect the rich ones, the killing effect will definitely be 10-100x or more on the general people buying mass market condos as they have significantly 'peanut' reserve to withstand whatever draconian policies that may be introduced (Do you think they can introduce a policy which says this area (e.g. D9) subject to draconian curbs & restrictions whereas the other areas (e.g. D26 etc) is not?).