The Estuary

[Wild Falcon]

Nobody is saying equality of prices. We're saying convergence or divergence? I'm saying convergence because development potential and value creation is higher in the suburbs. It's like investing in Pudong when nobody believes in it. The rewards are tremendous if you get it right. At today's prices, I will avoid all the prime area new launches. The only impetus for prices to skyrocket at prime areas is the possibility of "foreign investors" coming because of the huge success of the "IR". These PRCs can afford anything - therefore no need to talk about affordability - that's what al the developers like to say. In short, its highly dependent on China investors/speculators. Maybe they will come - maybe they will not. I would rather invest in something that have real demand from locals and have not been fully developed yet. As I say, its about value creation and asset enhancement. One more hospital in Novena no longer make any difference.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you when I said some people here are cursing others to lose money. It was another forummer.

I never say I want people to lose money or become poorer. In fact, I am trying to convey my view and people can judge for themselves (may be they will as a result earn tons of money of which I will be very happy for them).
My message is that there is no possibility of equality of prices between prime properties in for example Orchard and those mass market condos in eg Yishun or Woodlands. If there is such possibility, we should first see that HDB flats in Yishun or Woodlands selling at about the same price as eg Pinnacle@Duxton, Dawson Place etc (since all are about same quality and built by HDB, the only difference is their location). I don't believe we will ever see that.

[gfoo]

thx Moo2010, i'm glad to hear from a savvy investor such as you - much much more to learn... for me i buy properties that i want to stay in - don't really know much about investment properties

driving down to the estuary now

[gfoo]

gosh the balcony/planter is at least a third of livable space - nice slieght of hand thru ID-ing showflats tho

[Moo2010]

thx Moo2010, i'm glad to hear from a savvy investor such as you - much much more to learn... for me i buy properties that i want to stay in - don't really know much about investment properties

driving down to the estuary now

You are welcome . Actually Im not a savvy investor as Im not rich.
I stayed in HDB for over 20 years and only started with 100K to buy my first property. Its all "on the job training" and listening to others' opinion.
Thats why I know: Never underestimate a HDB upgrader ability as they might have accumulated enough wealth and knowledge to go into private property. But its a damn risky game I must say.

Eventually, you got to make the appropriate decisions based on your own fianacial ability and analysis.

[gfoo]

this place is hot - climate wise - really hot, but pretty ok views. i like it, wufe doesn't - they're arranging for me to meet with the archi to see what my options are.

[gfoo]

over 80% of buyers are hdb upgraders according to agent - there's a group of hawkers buying a few units, think they are a family.

the quant icecream uncle outside selling old skool ice cream rocks - nostalgic f primary school days

[DC33_2008]

over 80% of buyers are hdb upgraders according to agent - there's a group of hawkers buying a few units, think they are a family.

the quant icecream uncle outside selling old skool ice cream rocks - nostalgic f primary school days

Have they released Stack 8?

[DC33_2008]

over 80% of buyers are hdb upgraders according to agent - there's a group of hawkers buying a few units, think they are a family.

the quant icecream uncle outside selling old skool ice cream rocks - nostalgic f primary school days

It will not be a good idea if you are investing in a development where most of them are purchasing for own stay. Prices may not move so much in moderate time frame.

[moneyspinner]

Have they released Stack 8?

Just came back from the showflat. Was advised that Stack 8 is very popular and not released yet. Chances are will need to ballot to get a choice unit there!

[gfoo]

It will not be a good idea if you are investing in a development where most of them are purchasing for own stay. Prices may not move so much in moderate time frame.

this area makes absolutely no sense as an investment - am only considering it for own stay - the only concerns we have are environmental ones and the fact that effective PSF is about 1200-1300psf

and the layout is so chialat it'll inly work if i get 2 units and hack the wall

[moneyspinner]

this area makes absolutely no sense as an investment - am only considering it for own stay - the only concerns we have are environmental ones and the fact that effective PSF is about 1200-1300psf

and the layout is so chialat it'll inly work if i get 2 units and hack the wall

The best feature of this development is the reservoir view and nothing else. Even the 3 bedder bedrooms are really small. They need to make full use of the baywindows to accommodate the bed! Really condos are getting more and more expensive!

[DC33_2008]

this area makes absolutely no sense as an investment - am only considering it for own stay - the only concerns we have are environmental ones and the fact that effective PSF is about 1200-1300psf

and the layout is so chialat it'll inly work if i get 2 units and hack the wall

Otherwise the large enclosed space / balcony will have to be a makeshift living space. Why buy and regret later? I am sure you can find another place. The heat from the sun can really penetrate into the unit with the west facing facade. That is why the best stack is not released yet.

[kane]

Now I know why some say it's cheating on the space. The rooms if you discount the bay area is tiny. View's great. So that's the trade off.

[proud owner]

i do not understand some of the points posted

if there are 10000 jobs coming in the area .. why would they rent 1 bedroom ?
if one paid 500k for a 1 bedder ..some much should rent out the unit ?

alot of people but studio/ 1 bedder when IR was coming .. and we are know now they are planning to house the workers in HDB ..

would aerospace do the same ? make arrangement with HDB and rent the whole blk to house them ?

why would any company house their expats in 1 bedroom ?
if i am the expat, i would want at least 2 bedroom ..

i am speaking from experience where my spore expats colleagues all have 1 extra bedroom in the condo to house visiting friends and relatives ..

so i am not sure whats the potential in terms of rental / resale investment value of this project ...

and if the size of the room is really small .. even for own stay maybe an issue later on ..

if gfoo is right about the psf ..then doesnt it makes more sense to pay 1500 psf in town ?

[gfoo]

Otherwise the large enclosed space / balcony will have to be a makeshift living space. Why buy and regret later? I am sure you can find another place. The heat from the sun can really penetrate into the unit with the west facing facade. That is why the best stack is not released yet.

yes, you really have to see it in person to believe it. the rooms are ridiculously tiny barely enough space for a 3 bedder, the balcony + planter takes up AT LEAST 1/3rd of livable space. If the area was windy, then it would have been tolerable. But there is hardly a breath of breeze - just stagnant heat.

lemme weigh the pros and cons and will post my deliberations and thoughts about this development in a bit. poring over the siteplans now

Unlike the Moos and other rich folks here that buy for investment, i'm looking at purely a lifestyle perspective so my concerns are totally different from many.

[Regulators]

i agree with you. if buying outside central, the lifestyle has to be top notch. if buying central, can still compromise a bit on space, traffic etc. if buying in yishun, views would have to be breathtaking, house got to be damn spacious, amenities got to be plentiful and price got to be damn right before i would even think about buying it. if have to settle for afternoon sun in a MM unit and not much of view to scream about and 99years, i would rather not waste my time with such a unit. The upside of MM units in the suburban regions has yet to be tested but my personal take is that if one is buying in outlying suburban areas, minimum should be a 2 bedder

yes, you really have to see it in person to believe it. the rooms are ridiculously tiny barely enough space for a 3 bedder, the balcony + planter takes up AT LEAST 1/3rd of livable space. If the area was windy, then it would have been tolerable. But there is hardly a breath of breeze - just stagnant heat.

lemme weigh the pros and cons and will post my deliberations and thoughts about this development in a bit. poring over the siteplans now

Unlike the Moos and other rich folks here that buy for investment, i'm looking at purely a lifestyle perspective so my concerns are totally different from many.

[DC33_2008]

yes, you really have to see it in person to believe it. the rooms are ridiculously tiny barely enough space for a 3 bedder, the balcony + planter takes up AT LEAST 1/3rd of livable space. If the area was windy, then it would have been tolerable. But there is hardly a breath of breeze - just stagnant heat.

lemme weigh the pros and cons and will post my deliberations and thoughts about this development in a bit. poring over the siteplans now

Unlike the Moos and other rich folks here that buy for investment, i'm looking at purely a lifestyle perspective so my concerns are totally different from many.

I was quite tempted to invest until I saw the large enclosed space in the floor plan of the powerpoint slides. It can be rather ugly if residents are to used this space as a store-room or to dry their clothes.

[azeoprop]

yes, you really have to see it in person to believe it. the rooms are ridiculously tiny barely enough space for a 3 bedder, the balcony + planter takes up AT LEAST 1/3rd of livable space. If the area was windy, then it would have been tolerable. But there is hardly a breath of breeze - just stagnant heat.

lemme weigh the pros and cons and will post my deliberations and thoughts about this development in a bit. poring over the siteplans now

Unlike the Moos and other rich folks here that buy for investment, i'm looking at purely a lifestyle perspective so my concerns are totally different from many.

Thats why I said that this development could have been my perfect dream home...if not for the unit layout.... .... unless they allow us to enclose the balcony like hdb like that hee hee hee.

[Moo2010]

haha, I see alot of voices over whether it make sense to invest in this project or not. Well, if you are looking at the needs of a normal family profile (which is the most common in Yishun area), of course 1 bedder has no market demand at all. Who would want to squeeze in so many people in 1 bedder? Absolutely right and I agree.

However, we must not forget a group of bachelors and bachelorettes who are now currently staying with parents / siblings and who are also actively finding a place of its own privacy. If they turn to prime district area, its gonna cost them at least 4 to 5 times the price of Estuary. Not everyone can afford. This group of people are growing according to statistics, alot of people are not getting married nowadays.

This project is not that screwed in my pt of view. Though it is not damn near to the mrt, but still within walking distance, also with bus stops serving many buses to central. It has unblocked view. It has all the amedities as Yishun is a mature estate and I also see many job opportunities here in the near future. 1 bedder in Estuary compared to those prime district 1 bedder in terms of size is still consider bigger. It is ard 600sqft compared to those studios in prime district area that are even scaled down to only 300sqft. The layout is still decent for anyone who live alone.

Not everyone will look for 2 bedders if they find 1 bedder is enough to cater for their basic needs. In Estuary, 1 bedder cost below 500K while 2 bedder cost ard 800K. Its 300K difference!! my friend. You think all companies will accomodate you alone and spend so much money to pay for 2 bedder rental where 1 bedder can already satisfy the basic needs of a person? Anyway, different companies have different accomodation plans for their employees and theres no need to argue on this.

I'm hearing loud and clear with complaints abt the small room size in Estuary. Anyway, it happens to any condos. Its not something new anymore. In today's ST, a married couple with kids stay in Yishun 5 room flat. Why do they have to downgrade to a smaller room size and pay near 1 mil for Estuary 3 bedder? It is the quality of living they are looking at. They even tell the reporters that the price is reasonable.

Sometimes things just don't make sense. If we analyse things with formulas and equations, you will never take the first step.
Like the "Vision" thats gonna launch somewhere near West Coast highway, is already asking for $1100psf. Does it make any sense to you? Centro asking for $1200psf (used to be the price near Orchard area) in the suburd amk, does it make any sense to u as well? Well, if there are buyers, it still make sense.
I drive past west coast area before, damn ulu also. So by comparing, I see more potential in Estuary.
But things are quite hard to say, I won't be surprise if the vision has smaller room size and is selling at a higher $psf price and is selling like hot cakes....because...... anything..... can.... happen.

Cheers

[peterng8]

How I wish the one bedder would be selling at below S$460k at estuary...the price is around S$497000 cheapest with highest at nearly S$580K presently...for the space of 500 to 600 sqft...as per yesterday price shown to me....

[gfoo]

here's my review - again please remember my primary concern is quality of living as this is not in my class of ivst properties.

View
Unparalleled, unsculpted natural beauty as close as nature intended. there are very few places left with this sort of paronamic views, not even bedok reservoir comes close

Climate
One of the hottest areas in singapore, stagnant heat. no breeze whatsoever during the hours i was there. where i stay now and before, there is always some breeze 24x7 all times of the year. i am not used to this much heat

Traffic to and fro town
Ridiculous congestion - perennial problem, nothing more to say

Living Space
The 3 bedder's living space is smaller than my current 2+1. Big problem is that PES take up 38% of total paid up area (i calculated). thus to live comfortably i need to buy 2x 3bdrooms. finishing is bad, luckily developer allows me to take delivery of bare unit which i prefer.

Location
Surburbia, shares main road with entire northern corridor. this with cte jam makes it feel further than it should

Amenities
Agent selling sheng siong and ntuc - laughable. if heat persists, khatib is not walkable. dearth of bus transportation. no proper schools nearby, no proper lifestyle amenities. some hope here in that it's close to the country clubs where i already go often

Facade
Standard better-than-hdb-slightly, nothing to shout about

Main Reason I'm Passing on This
People, can't elaborate further. This and the fact that every other condo in the vicinity (seletar, semb, etc) has the infamous bedsheets over facade syndrome.

what a waste i really really liked the idea of reservoir living

[Moo2010]

here's my review - again please remember my primary concern is quality of living as this is not in my class of ivst properties.

View
Unparalleled, unsculpted natural beauty as close as nature intended. there are very few places left with this sort of paronamic views, not even bedok reservoir comes close

Climate
One of the hottest areas in singapore, stagnant heat. no breeze whatsoever during the hours i was there. where i stay now and before, there is always some breeze 24x7 all times of the year. i am not used to this much heat

Traffic to and fro town
Ridiculous congestion - perennial problem, nothing more to say

Living Space
The 3 bedder's living space is smaller than my current 2+1. Big problem is that PES take up 38% of total paid up area (i calculated). thus to live comfortably i need to buy 2x 3bdrooms. finishing is bad, luckily developer allows me to take delivery of bare unit which i prefer.

Location
Surburbia, shares main road with entire northern corridor. this with cte jam makes it feel further than it should

Amenities
Agent selling sheng siong and ntuc - laughable. if heat persists, khatib is not walkable. dearth of bus transportation. no proper schools nearby, no proper lifestyle amenities. some hope here in that it's close to the country clubs where i already go often

Facade
Standard better-than-hdb-slightly, nothing to shout about

Main Reason I'm Passing on This
People, can't elaborate further. This and the fact that every other condo in the vicinity (seletar, semb, etc) has the infamous bedsheets over facade syndrome.

what a waste i really really liked the idea of reservoir living

My gut feel tells me that if you miss this project, you will end up looking at projects like "the vision" and "centro" which is also in suburbs and the pricing is even more ridiculous (all above $1100-1200psf) . Project comes with unblocked waterfront view and greeneries and is within walking distance to mrt and bus stops, expressway and is priced ard $800psf is hard to find now.

Anyway buy what you need and buy what you feel comfortable. pls dont get me wrong, Im not promoting Estuary. Just sharing my thots only.

Future condo all comes with smaller room size compared to HDB, I already accepted this fate and is nothing new to me anymore.
Unless u buy my place here in shaughnessy, everything is so big and spacious. Still got personal parking lots and roof terrace to do your BBQ.

I stayed in Hougang for 20 yrs, moving to Yishun is a big gamble to me as the environment is totally foreign to me. It takes me 2 years to discover its beauty. Not everyone can accept the fact that Yishun deserved to be priced at $800psf. Yishun's housing price is always on the lower side, but it doesnt mean it will stays low forever. With this Estuary project, I feel that Yishun's price may progress to a next level.

Because of old perceptions, Thats why not just you, condorich and many other forumers all agreed that its not worth investing or even buying for stay. Well I just beg to differ. If talk about savannah's convenience, its not even close to Estuary at all. But it still sells so well. Some people just go for the landscape.

Some part of old yishun estate's price will not fluctuate that much. But along Yishun ave 1 stretch, I feel $800psf is a good pricing. The estate here are different from those other old Yishun estate and are better in terms of living quality.

Do the judgement yourselves, the winning formula is still evaluating its room in terms of the profit margin (be it investment or stay). The vision priced at $1100psf has not much profit margin to talk about in my pt of view. But who knows? I might be wrong. Talk about convenience, i don't see The Vision is any better than Estuary at all. Not even close to it.

All the best in your decision making!!

[stalingrad]

My gut feel tells me that if you miss this project, you will end up looking at projects like "the vision" and "centro" which is also in suburbs and the pricing is even more ridiculous (all above $1100-1200psf) . Project comes with unblocked waterfront view and greeneries and is within walking distance to mrt and bus stops, expressway and is priced ard $800psf is hard to find now.

Anyway buy what you need and buy what you feel comfortable. pls dont get me wrong, Im not promoting Estuary. Just sharing my thots only.

Future condo all comes with smaller room size compared to HDB, I already accepted this fate and is nothing new to me anymore.
Unless u buy my place here in shaughnessy, everything is so big and spacious. Still got personal parking lots and roof terrace to do your BBQ.

I stayed in Hougang for 20 yrs, moving to Yishun is a big gamble to me as the environment is totally foreign to me. It takes me 2 years to discover its beauty. Not everyone can accept the fact that Yishun deserved to be priced at $800psf. Yishun's housing price is always on the lower side, but it doesnt mean it will stays low forever. With this Estuary project, I feel that Yishun's price may progress to a next level.

Because of old perceptions, Thats why not just you, condorich and many other forumers all agreed that its not worth investing or even buying for stay. Well I just beg to differ. If talk about savannah's convenience, its not even close to Estuary at all. But it still sells so well. Some people just go for the landscape.

Some part of old yishun estate's price will not fluctuate that much. But along Yishun ave 1 stretch, I feel $800psf is a good pricing. The estate here are different from those other old Yishun estate and are better in terms of living quality.

Do the judgement yourselves, the winning formula is still evaluating its room in terms of the profit margin (be it investment or stay). The vision priced at $1100psf has not much profit margin to talk about in my pt of view. But who knows? I might be wrong. Talk about convenience, i don't see The Vision is any better than Estuary at all. Not even close to it.

All the best in your decision making!!

Are you crazy or something? you can get to vivocity in 5-10 minutes from the vision. Where can you go in the same amount of time from estuary? the golf course?

[august]

Are you crazy or something? you can get to vivocity in 5-10 minutes from the vision. Where can you go in the same amount of time from estuary? the golf course?

go jay bee .....



dats why yishun a lot of msians

[cher]

haha, I see alot of voices over whether it make sense to invest in this project or not. Well, if you are looking at the needs of a normal family profile (which is the most common in Yishun area), of course 1 bedder has no market demand at all. Who would want to squeeze in so many people in 1 bedder? Absolutely right and I agree.

However, we must not forget a group of bachelors and bachelorettes who are now currently staying with parents / siblings and who are also actively finding a place of its own privacy. If they turn to prime district area, its gonna cost them at least 4 to 5 times the price of Estuary. Not everyone can afford. This group of people are growing according to statistics, alot of people are not getting married nowadays.

This project is not that screwed in my pt of view. Though it is not damn near to the mrt, but still within walking distance, also with bus stops serving many buses to central. It has unblocked view. It has all the amedities as Yishun is a mature estate and I also see many job opportunities here in the near future. 1 bedder in Estuary compared to those prime district 1 bedder in terms of size is still consider bigger. It is ard 600sqft compared to those studios in prime district area that are even scaled down to only 300sqft. The layout is still decent for anyone who live alone.

Not everyone will look for 2 bedders if they find 1 bedder is enough to cater for their basic needs. In Estuary, 1 bedder cost below 500K while 2 bedder cost ard 800K. Its 300K difference!! my friend. You think all companies will accomodate you alone and spend so much money to pay for 2 bedder rental where 1 bedder can already satisfy the basic needs of a person? Anyway, different companies have different accomodation plans for their employees and theres no need to argue on this.

I'm hearing loud and clear with complaints abt the small room size in Estuary. Anyway, it happens to any condos. Its not something new anymore. In today's ST, a married couple with kids stay in Yishun 5 room flat. Why do they have to downgrade to a smaller room size and pay near 1 mil for Estuary 3 bedder? It is the quality of living they are looking at. They even tell the reporters that the price is reasonable.

Sometimes things just don't make sense. If we analyse things with formulas and equations, you will never take the first step.
Like the "Vision" thats gonna launch somewhere near West Coast highway, is already asking for $1100psf. Does it make any sense to you? Centro asking for $1200psf (used to be the price near Orchard area) in the suburd amk, does it make any sense to u as well? Well, if there are buyers, it still make sense.
I drive past west coast area before, damn ulu also. So by comparing, I see more potential in Estuary.
But things are quite hard to say, I won't be surprise if the vision has smaller room size and is selling at a higher $psf price and is selling like hot cakes....because...... anything..... can.... happen.

Cheers

You can't really compare west coast to Yishun, for one the distance to town is shorter.

[xebay11]

Climate
One of the hottest areas in singapore, stagnant heat. no breeze whatsoever during the hours i was there. where i stay now and before, there is always some breeze 24x7 all times of the year. i am not used to this much heat.

Really? I wonder why? Is it becos certain time of year? Sometimes even the beach at East Coast is so still kite also cannot fly.

[amk]

Talk about convenience, i don't see The Vision is any better than Estuary at all. Not even close to it.

hahaha Moo be careful, a lot of west coast guys here (100 Tree, Infiniti, Carabelle, Botannia, Parc, etc)

Interesting thoughts from you. I'm neutral on this. Already longed, so for now I'm staying put.

Btw if I'm not wrong, gfoo stays in The Sail one. He probably makes as much (or more) money as you.

Main Reason I'm Passing on This: People, can't elaborate further.

blink blink I think I know exactly what you meant ...

[gfoo]

My gut feel tells me that if you miss this project, you will end up looking at projects like "the vision" and "centro" which is also in suburbs and the pricing is even more ridiculous (all above $1100-1200psf) . Project comes with unblocked waterfront view and greeneries and is within walking distance to mrt and bus stops, expressway and is priced ard $800psf is hard to find now.

Because of old perceptions, Thats why not just you, condorich and many other forumers all agreed that its not worth investing or even buying for stay. Well I just beg to differ. If talk about savannah's convenience, its not even close to Estuary at all. But it still sells so well. Some people just go for the landscape.

Do the judgement yourselves, the winning formula is still evaluating its room in terms of the profit margin (be it investment or stay). The vision priced at $1100psf has not much profit margin to talk about in my pt of view. But who knows? I might be wrong. Talk about convenience, i don't see The Vision is any better than Estuary at all. Not even close to it.

Please don't get me wrong - again i stress that i'm not concerned about investment value or profit margin because at today's levels and in this class of suburban condos, that is moot. I was looking ahead on a needs basis - my current place allows me at most 5-6 more years of space at current living standards.

I was hoping to triple living space in excess of 3000 sq ft, and have the option of keeping the current place as a lifestyle/weekender (i'll never sell heh heh). I was even willing to compromise in terms of traffic and long distances to everywhere - just a matter of getting a driver. The cost savings gained vs an upgrade at my current location would mean higher buffers for lifestyle spending for my family.

But this would only make sense if the surrounding environment is half-close to what we are used to - we've always had a view of a large water body and the associated all-day breeze - calms the spirit. At the Estuary, there was the large water body, but no breeze just heat.

Nvm, we are used to 24x7 aircon anyways so i thought - ok, lun abit.

Then i went driving around the entire area to get a feel of the locale, and also to suss out amenities. Went into some newish looking condos to take a looksie too. OMG bedsheets and laundry hanging out on balcony railings. Nvm, maybe at $700psf more expensive so you'll find better behaved people.

Went to showflat - thought to myself 'chialat, cham liao'. Let's not even venture into the layouts and 'cheating' 38% PES charged to buyers.

The weird thing is, even previously $400-500psf Inifinty, cara and other condos etc along the west coast have today a very refined residential mix, including those of much older condos in that area. And all these people were HDB upgraders as well. (Not that i'll ever stay in that area - i find it kinda hot too and I have no interest in the Vision's pseudo sea view). I never ever see as prevalent the 'blanket and underwear over balcony' syndrome as what i saw today in the north.

[Sea]

New Release of Stacks

Stack 20
3 Bedroom (2nd flr – 16th flr) Reservoir View

Stack 28
3 Bedroom (2nd flr - 15th flr) Reservoir View


Showflat will be closed for the time being


However Pre Booking is still avil.

Sms at 90686016 for Bookings

[gfoo]

Really? I wonder why? Is it becos certain time of year? Sometimes even the beach at East Coast is so still kite also cannot fly.

maybe, but came home went downstairs for kopi after estuary trip - moderate breeze leh.