Clementiwoods (D5, 99 years leasehold, Frasers Centrepoint)

[matrix11]

I think there is great privacy for those on the ground floor. You don't get people walking past the front of your house cos there is no walkway in front. Nice big water body in the centre of the development.

Any idea if the place is breezy?

[kumkeet]

initially feared that blocks were too near to each other but the actual layout after landscape put in, opposite neighbours are actually quite a distance apart.

[apple3]

this project's carpark space is very generous. kudos to FCL.
also, 317,528 sqft for 240 units, not bad, each has more than 1300 sqft space. considered very spacious.
the choice of giving u a big "recreation pool" but non existent lap pool must have been an architect choice, since it has no shortage of land.
hope the contractors did a good job. u know, many times, you are at the mercy of the contractors, developer also cannot do anything.

Yes and no. The 3 developments are having the same plot ratio (GFA = Plot Ratio x Land Space), thus you cannot said there is no shortage of land. But FCL is indeed generous cause unlike VP that was purchase from Gov, FCL purchase the land from Singtel and they could actually maximise their profit further.

Developer can do the most important thing to contractor, HOLD PAYMENT.

[apple3]

That does not apply to Centro...less than 1:1 IIRC.

My mistake, FEO is worse than I thought.

[etbj]

...........But FCL is indeed generous cause unlike VP that was purchase from Gov, FCL purchase the land from Singtel and they could actually maximise their profit further.

I think it is because of the "Go Green" thingy..... which they have to maximize space...... unlike previous development, some condos have planters right outside of their bedroom, living etc.

CW is one of the condos that goes for Green Development.....

I went to take a look at The Gale in Pasir Ris. The layout is, perhaps, exactly the same as CW for 3-bedder or 4-bedder......

For home owner of CW, you can take a look at their showroom for ID reference......

[amk]

Developer can do the most important thing to contractor, HOLD PAYMENT.

u know, more often than not, developer just put you in front of the main con and let u deal with them. tell me honestly, who is the primary contact for your defect clearing ? the developer or the main con ? I can say 99.9% is you dealing with the main con. developer rep just hides behind. whatever you said just passed over to main con. Main con also may not care. u threaten with lawyer letter so what. At this stage 90% of the payment to main con already made. some small sub-sub cons can just run away and dun care. Main con has more headaches finding people on site. That's why it's so important to get the key early and start the defect works early. After 6 months, no sub con man on site already, you are going to get big headaches. Just one excuse "no stock" you are going to wait for a month. I experienced too much of it already

[stalingrad]

u know, more often than not, developer just put you in front of the main con and let u deal with them. tell me honestly, who is the primary contact for your defect clearing ? the developer or the main con ? I can say 99.9% is you dealing with the main con. developer rep just hides behind. whatever you said just passed over to main con. Main con also may not care. u threaten with lawyer letter so what. At this stage 90% of the payment to main con already made. some small sub-sub cons can just run away and dun care. Main con has more headaches finding people on site. That's why it's so important to get the key early and start the defect works early. After 6 months, no sub con man on site already, you are going to get big headaches. Just one excuse "no stock" you are going to wait for a month. I experienced too much of it already

main con indeed. con means con men, or fraudsters. I regard many contractors as con men.

[apple3]

I think it is because of the "Go Green" thingy..... which they have to maximize space...... unlike previous development, some condos have planters right outside of their bedroom, living etc.

CW is one of the condos that goes for Green Development.....

I went to take a look at The Gale in Pasir Ris. The layout is, perhaps, exactly the same as CW for 3-bedder or 4-bedder......

For home owner of CW, you can take a look at their showroom for ID reference......

Dont bank too much on this "green" thing..

[apple3]

u know, more often than not, developer just put you in front of the main con and let u deal with them. tell me honestly, who is the primary contact for your defect clearing ? the developer or the main con ? I can say 99.9% is you dealing with the main con. developer rep just hides behind. whatever you said just passed over to main con. Main con also may not care. u threaten with lawyer letter so what. At this stage 90% of the payment to main con already made. some small sub-sub cons can just run away and dun care. Main con has more headaches finding people on site. That's why it's so important to get the key early and start the defect works early. After 6 months, no sub con man on site already, you are going to get big headaches. Just one excuse "no stock" you are going to wait for a month. I experienced too much of it already

Do you mind paraphasing your posting? 1 whole chunk.

Guess we are on different frequency here. I'm more on developer and builder financing. In any case, there are terms in S&P on
reasonably retification timeframe, I mean, supposing you are buying from a decent developer.

AND, you don't talk to builder aka main con (Generally 3 heads, PM, SM and M&E M). Main-Con coming down have 3 main branches also known as NSC, Nominated Sub-Con, Archi, M&E & wetwork. Specialise sub-con include Safety, Landscaping, etc.

the one fixing up your squeak sound in your wardrobe is just sub-con or workers loan out from main con trying to see what they can do. It common for non-specialise general worker fixing up specialise job such as air-con.

Did you said "you have experienced too much of it already"? Well, guess you are implying how a guru you are and I shall not comment further, in case I'm making a fool of myself.

[etbj]

apple3, you are right
definitely owner will have to chase after the contractor than the developer...

sometime it really depend on situation and individual on how well owner deal with the developer......

in most cases, some defects are within "acceptable level" but owners tends to escalate or rather blow into big and unwanted issue......

as mentioned, i have a friend who is in VP and had his 34 pages of defects (handfull of defects per page) got it done within 2-3 weeks......

i guess the owners will have to get hold of the key persons phone number and buzz their line...

[calvenng]

For latest photos of clementiwoods go to
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/1017100

Those who want more photos can email me at [email protected]

Also I have buyers keen to buy a 2 bedroom units 1001 sq ft type.
Owners can contact me (96266797) if you want to lock in close to 50% profits

[etbj]

thanks calvenng

owners would definitely like to see this......

[icer_sun]

Two latest caveats shows the 3 bd of CW exceeds $900 psf .....

82 West Coast Road #04-23
99 Yrs From 07/02/2006
$951
1389
$1320k
17 Mar 10
90 West Coast Road #04-50
99 Yrs From 07/02/2006
$925
1389
$1285k
09 Mar 10

[amk]

I'm more on developer and builder financing. In any case, there are terms in S&P on
reasonably retification timeframe

That's on paper. Reality won't be so nice. For the 1st 3-6 months, many subcons still have men on site. It's far easier to get work done. After that, most of them will move men out for other projects, and will only come once a week. You will get big problem finding them.

And dun even bank on "developer holding payment to them" to help you. Many subcons dun give a sh**. For example the supplier for the tempered glass (for screens, walls, etc). Today a owner complain got scratch. So defect. Ok, argue with maincons, finally they agree to change. Then later owner say "no the replaced one also got scratches". This supplier got pissed off. He's not going to supply another piece. It's your maincon's problem to find another one. Main con will then have to use its own money to buy another one. This is where dispute comes in. And main con will argue with developer and you. Holding payment and threaten with lawyer letter ? It's not going to help. "Acceptable" or not is not so clear cut. You may not have a case. Even if you do, the subcons can always make life difficult for you. "No stock. Wait another 2 months".

In cases like this, how you deal with them becomes very important. Give and take here and there. Bargain here and there. etc.

Many items also involve architect. You say " marble chipped/gap too big, must change". Developer push to main con, main con push to architect. Architect say " it's acceptible". So what do you do ? Back to square one.

In the beginning 3 months, contractors are more willing to do/change things. After a while, with too many "defects", genuine or not, ppl get fed up. I know of many cases where smaller sub cons will forgo the last payment for them and simply leave the project. Because they already made enough, and leaving men and equipment on this site doing defects cost them more. They will rather go another site do "normal" works.

I'm just presenting the reality to the new buyers of a new condo , so be prepared.

[Condorich]

That's on paper. Reality won't be so nice. For the 1st 3-6 months, many subcons still have men on site. It's far easier to get work done. After that, most of them will move men out for other projects, and will only come once a week. You will get big problem finding them.

And dun even bank on "developer holding payment to them" to help you. Many subcons dun give a sh**. For example the supplier for the tempered glass (for screens, walls, etc). Today a owner complain got scratch. So defect. Ok, argue with maincons, finally they agree to change. Then later owner say "no the replaced one also got scratches". This supplier got pissed off. He's not going to supply another piece. It's your maincon's problem to find another one. Main con will then have to use its own money to buy another one. This is where dispute comes in. And main con will argue with developer and you. Holding payment and threaten with lawyer letter ? It's not going to help. "Acceptable" or not is not so clear cut. You may not have a case. Even if you do, the subcons can always make life difficult for you. "No stock. Wait another 2 months".

In cases like this, how you deal with them becomes very important. Give and take here and there. Bargain here and there. etc.

Many items also involve architect. You say " marble chipped/gap too big, must change". Developer push to main con, main con push to architect. Architect say " it's acceptible". So what do you do ? Back to square one.

In the beginning 3 months, contractors are more willing to do/change things. After a while, with too many "defects", genuine or not, ppl get fed up. I know of many cases where smaller sub cons will forgo the last payment for them and simply leave the project. Because they already made enough, and leaving men and equipment on this site doing defects cost them more. They will rather go another site do "normal" works.

I'm just presenting the reality to the new buyers of a new condo , so be prepared.

The horror stories will never end... all too common.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to go for ceremic tiles and ignore the poor finishings and do your own renovation thereafter. Provided you find a good contractor who would not repeat the same thing above.

It's the same everywhere... at the end of the day, have to pay money to get things done.

Some promise granite or beautiful marble... but when you get ur unit, the colors don't match or the quality is not of the same grade. What can you do?

[calvenng]

After the inspection and noting down the defects I always follow up with a letter to the developer with a CC copy to my lawyer.
"Under our S n P Clause XX If you don't rectify these within 1 month I will hired my own contractors and send you the bill."
They came pleading me with promises and always rectify my defects within days!

BTW looks like these Clementiwoods could take forever to get TOP.
Just visited the place today and they are tearing out/replacing many Block 80 and 78 units' flooring, bathrooms all over again.

[Condorich]

After the inspection and noting down the defects I always follow up with a letter to the developer with a CC copy to my lawyer.
"Under our S n P Clause XX If you don't rectify these within 1 month I will hired my own contractors and send you the bill."
They came pleading me with promises and always rectify my defects within days!

BTW looks like these Clementiwoods could take forever to get TOP.
Just visited the place today and they are tearing out/replacing many Block 80 and 78 units' flooring, bathrooms all over again.

For clear cut cases, not fit for use, no much problem anticipated...

For not so clear cut cases, i.e. poor but acceptable quality, workmenship... difficult unless they are willing to entertain. Of course the practice varies. Its your luck.

[kumkeet]

Can I check... which part of the patio/ balcony forms part of the main building/ facade? Say I wanna do up the flooring of the patio, is it allowed? Or the wall which separates the neighbouring units, for eg.b

[apple3]

That's on paper. Reality won't be so nice. For the 1st 3-6 months, many subcons still have men on site. It's far easier to get work done. After that, most of them will move men out for other projects, and will only come once a week. You will get big problem finding them.

And dun even bank on "developer holding payment to them" to help you. Many subcons dun give a sh**. For example the supplier for the tempered glass (for screens, walls, etc). Today a owner complain got scratch. So defect. Ok, argue with maincons, finally they agree to change. Then later owner say "no the replaced one also got scratches". This supplier got pissed off. He's not going to supply another piece. It's your maincon's problem to find another one. Main con will then have to use its own money to buy another one. This is where dispute comes in. And main con will argue with developer and you. Holding payment and threaten with lawyer letter ? It's not going to help. "Acceptable" or not is not so clear cut. You may not have a case. Even if you do, the subcons can always make life difficult for you. "No stock. Wait another 2 months".

In cases like this, how you deal with them becomes very important. Give and take here and there. Bargain here and there. etc.

Many items also involve architect. You say " marble chipped/gap too big, must change". Developer push to main con, main con push to architect. Architect say " it's acceptible". So what do you do ? Back to square one.

In the beginning 3 months, contractors are more willing to do/change things. After a while, with too many "defects", genuine or not, ppl get fed up. I know of many cases where smaller sub cons will forgo the last payment for them and simply leave the project. Because they already made enough, and leaving men and equipment on this site doing defects cost them more. They will rather go another site do "normal" works.

I'm just presenting the reality to the new buyers of a new condo , so be prepared.

Either you are amplifying and blown things out of proportion with a tinge of "scare" Or maybe I'm just an easy customer that have deal too much on resale run-down units.

I see absolutely no big deal in what you have mentioned. For a half-mil condo, why should you look so "hard" into all these?

In any case, calvenng resolution toward these "unhappiness" prove to be worthy and works most of the time.

[stalingrad]

That's on paper. Reality won't be so nice. For the 1st 3-6 months, many subcons still have men on site. It's far easier to get work done. After that, most of them will move men out for other projects, and will only come once a week. You will get big problem finding them.

And dun even bank on "developer holding payment to them" to help you. Many subcons dun give a sh**. For example the supplier for the tempered glass (for screens, walls, etc). Today a owner complain got scratch. So defect. Ok, argue with maincons, finally they agree to change. Then later owner say "no the replaced one also got scratches". This supplier got pissed off. He's not going to supply another piece. It's your maincon's problem to find another one. Main con will then have to use its own money to buy another one. This is where dispute comes in. And main con will argue with developer and you. Holding payment and threaten with lawyer letter ? It's not going to help. "Acceptable" or not is not so clear cut. You may not have a case. Even if you do, the subcons can always make life difficult for you. "No stock. Wait another 2 months".

In cases like this, how you deal with them becomes very important. Give and take here and there. Bargain here and there. etc.

Many items also involve architect. You say " marble chipped/gap too big, must change". Developer push to main con, main con push to architect. Architect say " it's acceptible". So what do you do ? Back to square one.

In the beginning 3 months, contractors are more willing to do/change things. After a while, with too many "defects", genuine or not, ppl get fed up. I know of many cases where smaller sub cons will forgo the last payment for them and simply leave the project. Because they already made enough, and leaving men and equipment on this site doing defects cost them more. They will rather go another site do "normal" works.

I'm just presenting the reality to the new buyers of a new condo , so be prepared.

One issue is borderline workmanship. We moved into our new condo this year, and I found a grand total of 3 defects, including a chipped marble slab. Wife went in to do her own checking, and came back with 40 defects. the differences? many of the defects she found were not defects, just things that can be made "more pretty." so, it really depends how sensitive and demanding the owner is. I am the least sensitive type. women are usually more sensitive.

another issue is uneven workmanship. Our unit was not perfect, but it was acceptable. One contractor took us to the penhouse in our stack. Gee, that was really badly done. so many things were done with very little care. Tiles on the floors are chipped. Tiles on the walls are not closely laid, leaving huge gaps. Window panes chipped, one of them was ripped down the middle. horror. it really depends on who does your unit, and when. If the worker is in a bad mood, or drunk something, you unit will look like the set for a horror movie.

[amk]

For a half-mil condo, why should you look so "hard" into all these?

The experience I had are not half-mil projects.

In any case, calvenng resolution toward these "unhappiness" prove to be worthy and works most of the time.

u know, this is exactly the kind of attitude I hope buyers *dun* bank on too much. I've explained it in detail. some members also commented on the "not so clear cut" cases. I guess I'll just stop here and let every one experience himself. No need to argue. I'm just giving an opinion. You choose yourself whether to believe in it.

If the worker is in a bad mood, or drunk something, you unit will look like the set for a horror movie.

exactly. and worse still poor workmanship does not always equal to defects so u have to take it or leave it. As a buyer for pty, I always keep an eye on who the maincon is (and architect).

[Tropical Fish]

For latest photos of clementiwoods go to
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/1017100

Those who want more photos can email me at [email protected]

Also I have buyers keen to buy a 2 bedroom units 1001 sq ft type.
Owners can contact me (96266797) if you want to lock in close to 50% profits

Just read a message that you wrote in "Ask Gur" --
"It could take a long time, most likely Aug/Sep 2010, just went in yesterday and saw the contractors tearing out the floorings of several units. Also most of the bathroom 's drainage,sanitary fittings, showers are not complete yet."



OMG, is that true? Will call the developer on Monday morning to ask for the latest news on the possible date of TOP.

[cheerful]

fully agrees with amk. for defective works, developer and main con will always try to convince you that they are always acceptable and functional.

As buyer, we shd exercise our rights! firstly, when we buy condo, we are buying not just for functional! secondly, acceptable to whose standards? if you reaslised, sometimes hbd's standards are better.

Buyer beware! if your unit is in horrific condition, don't take vacant possession!

[kumkeet]

Just read a message that you wrote in "Ask Gur" --
"It could take a long time, most likely Aug/Sep 2010, just went in yesterday and saw the contractors tearing out the floorings of several units. Also most of the bathroom 's drainage,sanitary fittings, showers are not complete yet."



OMG, is that true? Will call the developer on Monday morning to ask for the latest news on the possible date of TOP.

pls update here what the developer says

[apple3]

The experience I had are not half-mil projects.

hahahha.. what I'm trying to illustrate was; for such high value of half-mil, why look so hard when a bit of money could cure some headache. AND NOT, so lowly half-mil, you should expect sub-standard.

who cares how many projects and its worth you had experience with?? This is clementiwoods we talking about here..

u know, this is exactly the kind of attitude I hope buyers *dun* bank on too much. I've explained it in detail. some members also commented on the "not so clear cut" cases. I guess I'll just stop here and let every one experience himself. No need to argue. I'm just giving an opinion. You choose yourself whether to believe in it.

No one arguing. Just disagreeing with your opinion and feel disgusting when your way of conveying your message is by stating how vast your experience was with an old man style of "I seen it all lah..".

It ok, you can said my words are shitty too, who bother..

exactly. and worse still poor workmanship does not always equal to defects so u have to take it or leave it. As a buyer for pty, I always keep an eye on who the maincon is (and architect)..

Don't be disgusting again. Onus of Stalingrad's posting was illustrating how man and woman weight things at different benchmark. You have simply extract the paragraph of what benefit and support your arguement.

[Tropical Fish]

Just went to the condo to take a look. Talked to a Chinese worker, he said the TOP inspection on March 25 didn’t get proved. They (the workers) were told ( not sure was by the developer or the inspectors from government) to make some modifications around the condo.

Since then the workers have been working around the clock and trying to get all the modifications done as soon as possible because the next TOP inspection date is set on April 20 (or could be earlier). He also said that the No 88 and 86 will be the first ones to get TOP.


Well, still will call the developer on Monday to confirm.

[amk]

apple I'm not going to use that kind of language here. so let's just stop it here ok ?

[orangeroad80]

Hi guys,

is it true that we will only receive the TOP letter (to inform us on the TOP date) 1 month before the actual TOP date ?

If that is the case - I haven't receive any TOP letter from my lawyer yet, that means the TOP date can't be anytime earlier than 12th May lor is it ......

Puzzled that how come this project's development progress is so slow ...
Sigh I was hoping to get the keys at end March at first, then now I am hoping for end April, but looking at current situation, it seems that end April will not be achievable as well ......

[Tropical Fish]

Hi all,

Just called Frasers Centerpoint, the latest info about the TOP date is between the end of April and early May. I also asked that if the TOP date can be possibly postponed to July/August. The lady said no, it won’t be so late.


She also suggests that if all the fees can be paid by Cash Order instead of Cheque, it will shorten the waiting time of getting the key.

[calvenng]

Hi all,

Just called Frasers Centerpoint, the latest info about the TOP date is between the end of April and early May. I also asked that if the TOP date can be possibly postponed to July/August. The lady said no, it won’t be so late.


She also suggests that if all the fees can be paid by Cash Order instead of Cheque, it will shorten the waiting time of getting the key.

Hope she is right, otherwise I might need to sleep on the street as I need to move out of my current home by July 2010.

Anyone got any suggestion where I can find a place to stay/rent or store my furniture for just 1 month if the TOP date is delay again.