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Thread: NSP intends to contest election over Singapore's housing issues

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    Default NSP intends to contest election over Singapore's housing issues

    The National Solidarity Party (NSP) said it intends to engage itself in a debate with National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan regarding the housing issues in Singapore.

    Goh Meng Seng, the Secretary General of NSP said it wants to contest the General Election in Tampines over the policy decision of Mr. Mah, and not over personalities.

    Goh Meng Seng, a businessman, said that "as Mr. Mah pointed out correctly, it's not about Mr. Mah or about me, but his HDB policy, which will affect this, the next and future generations."

    The Group Representation Constituency (GRC) of Tampines, which is headed by Mr. Mah, is a multiple-seat constituency in the Parliament that some opposition parties are targeting in the next General Election.

    When NSP was asked about their rate of success at the elections, Mr. Goh said, "It's up to us to convince constituents that Mr. Mah's decisions are not good. If we fail to do that, we deserve to lose. Nobody owes us anything."

    Yaw Shin Leong, the organizing secretary of the Workers' Party (WP) said no decision has been made yet on whether it will contest Tampines GRC.

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    Default Construction of new Queenstown HDB flats costs $120,000 per unit

    HDB has awarded a contract worth $99.8 million to Sim Lian Construction Co. for the building works at Queenstown Redevelopment Contract 30, which will have a total of 774 housing units, according to business weekly, the Edge.

    The contract, which translates to a construction cost of $129,180 per unit, is slated to begin in March 2010 and is expected to be completed by February 2013.

    The statutory board Singapore Land Authority owns the land parcel.

    Once completed, the flats are likely to fetch over $300,000 per unit, as the project is located in the prime district of Queenstown.

    HDB flat prices have increased in recent years by more than 30 percent, while the average earnings of ordinary Singaporeans remains the same.

    Singaporeans have a pervasive perception that HDB is making a huge “profit” at their expense, despite its repeated claim that public housing is “heavily subsidized” in Singapore.

    When HDB declared that it had incurred a loss of more than SGD$2 billion dollars in 2009 from “subsidizing” Singaporeans in new flats, only a few bought its story.

    Since Sim Lian Construction Co. is a private limited company, and it won't be gaining any profit from the project, the exact cost price of each flat is likely to be less than $129,180.

    National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan continues to insist that HDB flats remain “affordable” to ordinary Singaporeans despite growing anger, resentment and frustration on the ground at the sky-rocketing prices of HDB flats.

    While he admitted that he was caught unprepared by the rising resale flat prices, he promised to “monitor the situation” closely in order to “address concerns” that prices may be spiraling out of control.

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    Very simple.

    Just call a referendum. Do Singaporeans want:

    a. Property prices to go up?
    b. Property prices to go down?

    If the majority votes (a), then the cost of the referendum shall be funded by NSP members' through confiscation of their properties by the State.

    If the majortiy votes (b), then Mah Bow Tan steps down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Very simple.

    Just call a referendum. Do Singaporeans want:

    a. Property prices to go up?
    b. Property prices to go down?

    If the majority votes (a), then the cost of the referendum shall be funded by NSP members' through confiscation of their properties by the State.

    If the majortiy votes (b), then Mah Bow Tan steps down.
    what about option
    (c) HDB price to remain / Private price base on market forces ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allthepies
    what about option
    (c) HDB price to remain / Private price base on market forces ??
    agree

    in my opinion..HDB is public housing ..meant for the people who CANNOT afford private .. .

    why build HDB in DAWSON selling at low end private price ??

    for that matter ..those who buy in open mkt .. paying high COV .. they could jolly well afford a condo in terok kurau ..

    why allow these group to jack up HDB prices ? when they can afford condo ?> in the first place HDB are meant for the less fortunate / lower income group .

    this is something that our govt is really good (bad ) at ... forgoing their initial focus ..

    just like COE to curb car population .. then ERP ..then who knows what else next .. they all become money making machine for the govt .. and pass ALL the cost to the people

    HDB should stay affordable to ALL who is eligible ... and not for those who can well afford private condo ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allthepies
    what about option
    (c) HDB price to remain / Private price base on market forces ??
    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    agree

    in my opinion..HDB is public housing ..meant for the people who CANNOT afford private .. .

    why build HDB in DAWSON selling at low end private price ??

    for that matter ..those who buy in open mkt .. paying high COV .. they could jolly well afford a condo in terok kurau ..

    why allow these group to jack up HDB prices ? when they can afford condo ?> in the first place HDB are meant for the less fortunate / lower income group .

    this is something that our govt is really good (bad ) at ... forgoing their initial focus ..
    The two of you's suggestions are very dangerous.

    Do you know what is going to happen?

    The price gap between private and public housing will open so wide that there will be a revolt from the 80% of Singaporeans who belong to the "less fortunate / lower income group".

    At least now, Granny Yeo and her daughter can take some comfort that their $30,000 Marine Parade HDB 5-room flat, bought in the 1970's, is now commanding $500,000, even though it cannot compare with say, a hypothetical rich cousin, the lawyer, who bought her Queen Astrid Park bungalow, also in the 1970's, for $500,000 but which is now commanding $26.8 million.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Just look at these ...


    January 2010
    For Sale -Queen Astrid Bungalow (D10)
    S$ 26,800,000 Negotiable
    Land area: 25,500 sqft



    Housewife Yeo Wee Geck, 85, is one. The grandmother of six lives with her only daughter and their maid in a five-room HDB flat in Marine Parade. She bought the 20th-storey unit in the early 1970s for $30,000. Today, buyers are willing to pay $500,000.

    Today, the Queen Astrid Park Bungalow is asking $26.8 million, which is 54 times the asking price 30+ years ago. Whereas a Marine Parade five-room HDB flat is worth only 17 times what it was 30+ years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    The two of you's suggestions are very dangerous.

    ahhaha your England very powderful


    Do you know what is going to happen?

    The price gap between private and public housing will open so wide that there will be a revolt from the 80% of Singaporeans who belong to the "less fortunate / lower income group".

    You are such a pessemist.. i would believe this could inspire the lower income group to strive and work harder to get onto the next higher income level ..

    At least now, Granny Yeo and her daughter can take some comfort that their $30,000 Marine Parade HDB 5-room flat, bought in the 1970's, is now commanding $500,000, even though it cannot compare with say, a hypothetical rich cousin, the lawyer, who bought her Queen Astrid Park bungalow, also in the 1970's, for $500,000 but which is now commanding $26.8 million.
    i am only saying we should stamp out speculation .. as speculation jacks up prices unrealistically , making it hard for the lower income group to even BUY HDB. They should not be penalised for not speculating ..

    Are you supporting speculation ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    i am only saying we should stamp out speculation .. as speculation jacks up prices unrealistically , making it hard for the lower income group to even BUY HDB. They should not be penalised for not speculating ..

    Are you supporting speculation ?
    But isn't speculation good for Granny Yeo?

    Now she has a flat that's worth $500,000. Even though she might not sell it, her days are brighter because she can feel that it is worth so much.

    What about her daughter? Even though her daughter may find it hard to afford her own flat (perhaps that's why she's staying with her), one day that flat will be hers.

    What many people do not seem to realise when they are clamouring for more HDB flats to be build, is that there is potential oversupply coming up in the years ahead when the older folks leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    But isn't speculation good for Granny Yeo?

    Now she has a flat that's worth $500,000. Even though she might not sell it, her days are brighter because she can feel that it is worth so much.

    What about her daughter? Even though her daughter may find it hard to afford her own flat (perhaps that's why she's staying with her), one day that flat will be hers.

    What many people do not seem to realise when they are clamouring for more HDB flats to be build, is that there is potential oversupply coming up in the years ahead when the older folks leave.
    precisely ... she already has her HDB thats worth 500k ...

    think about the new comers ... they cant even afford the very first HDB .. be it resale or HDB sale ..

    so those with money now should be selfish ? and not spare a thought for the not so privileged ?

    i am only against speculation as they usually are not sustainable ..
    look at 1992-1994 .. a maisonette in NE zone went from 168k to 480k ..brand new from HDB .. no floor tiles ...no nothing ..

    after that it crashed ..

    who made money ? HDB ...and speculators ..
    who lost money ? those last wave who paid from 400-480k

    prices may have come back up today .. but we should not let speculation jack it further .. at the end of the day .. your theory of bringing wealth to these lower income group ..could hurt them even more ..simply becos you approve of speculation ..

    there will always be speculation..but it should be confined to private NOT HDB ..

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    when granny yeo bought marine parade, everyone viewed the area as undesirable flats that would topple anytime over reclaimed land. Hong Lim flats were in the 'poor' neighbourhood, and spottiswoode was for port and railway workers. today's sengkang can be tomorrow's prime area

    newcomers should start with what they can afford in new towns. if they really want to stay in mature, prime estates but cannot afford it, then work harder.

    if not for the fact that hdb prices have risen the way they have today, many older singaporeans will have no capital gain to fall back on when they retire

    young singaporeans should be more realistic

    current hdb rules already curb speculation, and i think there will be further rules down the road that wull rein in previously relaxed policies

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    when granny yeo bought marine parade, everyone viewed the area as undesirable flats that would topple anytime over reclaimed land. Hong Lim flats were in the 'poor' neighbourhood, and spottiswoode was for port and railway workers. today's sengkang can be tomorrow's prime area

    newcomers should start with what they can afford in new towns. if they really want to stay in mature, prime estates but cannot afford it, then work harder.

    if not for the fact that hdb prices have risen the way they have today, many older singaporeans will have no capital gain to fall back on when they retire

    young singaporeans should be more realistic

    current hdb rules already curb speculation, and i think there will be further rules down the road that wull rein in previously relaxed policies
    i agree that they should start from NON prime location ... but hey ... with the prime being pushed up .. the non prime are not any cheaper ..

    fact remains that the new comers' income have not gone up in line with the jacked up non prime price

    anyway i am speaking for the lower income group ..

    on a personal gain side .. i should really be happy that HDB prices are skyrocketting .. it has help formed a more solid base to the private condos ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    think about the new comers ... they cant even afford the very first HDB .. be it resale or HDB sale ..

    so those with money now should be selfish ? and not spare a thought for the not so privileged ? ..
    i share ur view...cant imagine new comers taking 80% loan for 500-600k flats, after 30yrs how much interest they incurred? How much must they sell in order to materialize real gain. Mr M wont be around to see all these. HDB will end up like cars for common folks, after paying off the loan, car scrap, cpf no money left for retirement, sell off the roof to cash out. Si beh jia lat.

    maybe i wont live that long to see that happens. haha

    Gd for those who bought in the early years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx

    What many people do not seem to realise when they are clamouring for more HDB flats to be build, is that there is potential oversupply coming up in the years ahead when the older folks leave.
    Yes I agree this is dangerous and possible looking at the large numbers of HDB coming up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Very simple.

    Just call a referendum. Do Singaporeans want:

    a. Property prices to go up?
    b. Property prices to go down?

    If the majority votes (a), then the cost of the referendum shall be funded by NSP members' through confiscation of their properties by the State.

    If the majortiy votes (b), then Mah Bow Tan steps down.
    Your whole question is a false premise & shows the political immaturity alot of seem to harbour.

    It's about as silly as saying if you want
    a)higher health costs
    b) lower health costs.

    If majority vote b) all ruling party have to sell all their health insurance plans. What nonsense is this. People are allowed to contest elections with no threat to their property. Just because you personally don't like what they stand for doesn't allow you to change the rules. Not that you could if you wanted to.

    There will be a referendum -it's called general election.

    What is obvious to me is that property cannot keep rising more than wage inflation or eventually there will eventually be a crash. But before it you will have people lured into more debt than they can ever afford. You eventually end up with a bubble that blows like in US right now & 1996 here.

    Although I & several others may benefit from such a scenario on paper owning more than 1 private property I am not necessarily happy about what it means for my kids when they grow up.
    Sure they will get my properties after I leave this world..... but that may not be until they are 60 or 70 themselves..... You think this will be such a blessing to them as opposed to affordable property when they need to buy?


    In fact this is one of the major reasons Singaporeans aren't replacing themselves, they feel they can't afford to. The end result is importation of foreigners to make up the numbers & everyone complains.

    There must be more to this nation than self interest.


    A property by itself offers nothing more than four walls & a roof. No economic benefit. A wise man stated this as property ran out of control in mid 90's - you may be suprised to discover who.
    Last edited by EBD; 07-02-10 at 18:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBD
    Your whole question is a false premise & shows the political immaturity alot of seem to harbour.

    It's about as silly as saying if you want
    a)higher health costs
    b) lower health costs.

    If majority vote b) all ruling party have to sell all their health insurance plans. What nonsense is this. People are allowed to contest elections with no threat to their property. Just because you personally don't like what they stand for doesn't allow you to change the rules. Not that you could if you wanted to.

    There will be a referendum -it's called general election.

    What is obvious to me is that property cannot keep rising more than wage inflation or eventually there will eventually be a crash. But before it you will have people lured into more debt than they can ever afford. You eventually end up with a bubble that blows like in US right now & 1996 here.

    Although I & several others may benefit from such a scenario on paper owning more than 1 private property I am not necessarily happy about what it means for my kids when they grow up.
    Sure they will get my properties after I leave this world..... but that may not be until they are 60 or 70 themselves..... You think this will be such a blessing to them as opposed to affordable property when they need to buy?


    In fact this is one of the major reasons Singaporeans aren't replacing themselves, they feel they can't afford to. The end result is importation of foreigners to make up the numbers & everyone complains.

    There must be more to this nation than self interest.


    A property by itself offers nothing more than four walls & a roof. No economic benefit. A wise man stated this as property ran out of control in mid 90's - you may be suprised to discover who.
    Excellent! Well said.

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    forgive my naivete but how are new hdb properties unaffordable when new 4 room flats in new estates cost an avg $200-250k?

    hdb should maintain the social compact for affordable housing by pegging new hdb in new estates to price ceilings of sorts. however, resale and flats in prime areas should be left to market forces

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBD
    Your whole question is a false premise & shows the political immaturity alot of seem to harbour.

    It's about as silly as saying if you want
    a)higher health costs
    b) lower health costs.

    If majority vote b) all ruling party have to sell all their health insurance plans. What nonsense is this. People are allowed to contest elections with no threat to their property. Just because you personally don't like what they stand for doesn't allow you to change the rules. Not that you could if you wanted to.

    There will be a referendum -it's called general election.

    What is obvious to me is that property cannot keep rising more than wage inflation or eventually there will eventually be a crash. But before it you will have people lured into more debt than they can ever afford. You eventually end up with a bubble that blows like in US right now & 1996 here.

    Although I & several others may benefit from such a scenario on paper owning more than 1 private property I am not necessarily happy about what it means for my kids when they grow up.
    Sure they will get my properties after I leave this world..... but that may not be until they are 60 or 70 themselves..... You think this will be such a blessing to them as opposed to affordable property when they need to buy?


    In fact this is one of the major reasons Singaporeans aren't replacing themselves, they feel they can't afford to. The end result is importation of foreigners to make up the numbers & everyone complains.

    There must be more to this nation than self interest.


    A property by itself offers nothing more than four walls & a roof. No economic benefit. A wise man stated this as property ran out of control in mid 90's - you may be suprised to discover who.
    A referendum costs time and money so it must be financed somehow and definitely not by the majority of Singaporean taxpayers, who obviously want property prices to go up.

    If those who want property prices to go down are confident enough of victory, then they should put up their properties as pledge towards disbursement costs of the referendum.

    I don't see why properties are unaffordable.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    forgive my naivete but how are new hdb properties unaffordable when new 4 room flats in new estates cost an avg $200-250k?

    hdb should maintain the social compact for affordable housing by pegging new hdb in new estates to price ceilings of sorts. however, resale and flats in prime areas should be left to market forces
    As gfoo has pointed out, HDB prices will always be very affordable, especially direct sales from HDB. The Government has lots of rules and regulations to make sure that they are affordable. If Marine Parade or Kim Tian is expensive there are always other locations. There is no necessity to hanker after private properties in prime districts, as after all a property by itself offers nothing more than four walls & a roof.

    If you own more than one private property then you should be happy that private property prices are rising. There are many ways your children can benefit.

    For example, you can always let your children stay in your properties free of charge, while they can then buy other properties of their own, which they can rent out to collect rental income (indirectly helping them to save up).

    Or you can let your children "manage" your properties whereby they'll handle the rental of the properties and all rental income go to them. In no time, their bank accounts will balloon and they can then buy their own properties to add to their portfolio.

    Alternatively, you can do what proud owner's friend has done.

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    true .. my friends in law ( chinese) own golf courses around the world .

    they live in a 7000 sqft townhouse in singapore ( father mother and a maid) ..they own scotts 28 (gave to the son ) .. they bought 7 units at residences@evelyn ( 1 gave to the daughter as her wedding gift ) .. they rest are kept empty .. so how to beat them ?

    i like the term Collectibles

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