Senior
sure sounds like a good deal with a good chance of making money. no wonder its not for us again.
Originally Posted by moneyspinner
I agree. Just recently, I was trying to get an old detached bungalow at Coronation Road priced at about S$1,ooo psf with the intention of doing an A & A and reselling it. Guess what, on the night before the open house the next the day, I was told by the agent that it was sold!
Junior
The market is now moving very very fast.I agree. Just recently, I was trying to get an old detached bungalow at Coronation Road priced at about S$1,ooo psf with the intention of doing an A & A and reselling it. Guess what, on the night before the open house the next the day, I was told by the agent that it was sold!yes, but the really experienced guys move really fast and get news of all the cheap land really fast. no place for us to be mini developers at all.
I just experienced that in my most recent purchase.
It's almost like the last helicopter out of Saigon ...
HERE TAKE MY MONEY!!! TAKE IT!!! TAKE IT!!!
Newbie
Bec of the recent en-bloc sale at Fort Road for a stretch of terrace houses, the new record high in D15 is $2329 land psf as caveated in URA.The prices for landed at D15 has now caught up with D10 and D11? Unbelievable!So now those at D10 and D11 landed are better buys isn't it???????????
Originally Posted by Blue
Even Serangoon Garden brand new landed houses already selling above $1000 land psf...opera estate should be higher..
Bgt my landed in Katong (D15) at $1400 land psf!!! But it's newly rebuilt. I'm a happy man!
Did a search in URA, highest land psf in D15 was $1950 psf in Tembeling Road, Katong!
D9 record high is $4111 land psf at Emerald Hill
D10 record high is $1972 land psf at Holland Road.
D11 record high is $2012 land psf at Barker Road.
D19 record high is $1226 land psf at Golden Walk.
By the way, "record high" means for the recent past 1 yr of caveat lodge cos data is taken from URA.
Land psf is taken into account of rebuilt / reconstruction costs + land costs, then divide by the land size. It can fluctuate depending on built up design and built up size. But rebuilt cost is the same regardless of location / districts. So this data is a good indicator of brand new landed houses psf rather than purely land psf / prices. A piece of vacant land is useless unless it is built up and put into good use.
A friend of mine was selling vacant land plots in Canada few years ago. Not very lucrative though.
F01 N54 Sheer Driving Pleasure
$4,111 psf done in March 2010 for that District-9 Emerald Hill landed? This bull has just started its run!Bec of the recent en-bloc sale at Fort Road for a stretch of terrace houses, the new record high in D15 is $2329 land psf as caveated in URA.
D9 record high is $4111 land psf at Emerald Hill
D10 record high is $1972 land psf at Holland Road.
D11 record high is $2012 land psf at Barker Road.
D19 record high is $1226 land psf at Golden Walk.
By the way, "record high" means for the recent past 1 yr of caveat lodge cos data is taken from URA.
Land psf is taken into account of rebuilt / reconstruction costs + land costs, then divide by the land size. It can fluctuate depending on built up design and built up size. But rebuilt cost is the same regardless of location / districts. So this data is a good indicator of brand new landed houses psf rather than purely land psf / prices. A piece of vacant land is useless unless it is built up and put into good use.
A friend of mine was selling vacant land plots in Canada few years ago. Not very lucrative though.
Newbie
Hi everyone. I am looking to buy a landed property at Bukit Timah. Any idea what is the psf range that I should budget for a 3000 sqft semid?
Prices seem to have sky rocketted from a year back. I see ads for D21 (Sian Tuan / Binjai area) asking 1200 psf just for land. Are these prices realistic?
Newbie
Market supply and demand. Spoken to some agents, apparently some developers feels that land prices in D9/D10/D11 may hit S$1,700 to S$1,800 psf by end of this year. This remains to be seen. But looks like landed property is the in thing now!!!!!!!!!!
Senior
in the watten area, a very old corner terrace (likely for rebuild) of slightly above 3000 sq ft transacted at 3.38m last month. So that's 1089psf. Perhaps Sian Tuan may be slightly cheaper, so if the ask for the land is 1200psf, its normal, as you can try to negotiate. If you add in the cost of rebuild (that portion likely in cash), then you will need a budget in excess of $4m.
Junior
Are you referring to 2, Watten Close?
It's scary!
I mean the price.
Nowadays I'm getting "Landed Property Anxiety Syndrome".Market supply and demand. Spoken to some agents, apparently some developers feels that land prices in D9/D10/D11 may hit S$1,700 to S$1,800 psf by end of this year. This remains to be seen. But looks like landed property is the in thing now!!!!!!!!!!
I have a feeling it's reaching the "All Hell Break Loose" tipping point similar to COEs, but with such high asking price, I've got not enough money to buy another one.
And I don't know whether to feel happy or sad.
Newbie
Could semid and terrace of similar size command similar psf? I would guess semid would command a premium because of the perceived higher status.
I guess similarly bungalow will command a premium over semid for similar size. am i correct?
Newbie
Not necessary so. There are other important attributes to derive the final price. For example
a) Corner unit
b) Location
c) Age and Condition of the house
d) Design
e) Proximity to M.R.T
f) Neighbours
g) Pools?
h) LH/FH etc
i) Any other significant attributes.
These are called factors to consider and they are considered all together. When the considerations are mixed, you cannot apply the simple rule above.
i.e Same land size for
a) Bungalow in Changi
b) Semi-D in D9
Ans = Semi D is priced higher
a) LH Bungalow versus
c) FH Semi-D
Ans = FH Semi-D is priced higher
However, there are indeed some premium placed for Bungalow over Semi D. The question is... what are all other factors to be considered that will allow a buyer to derive the fair final pricing.
But it remain as a fact that Bungalow may not be more expansive than a Semi D and vice versa. Hope this helps
Junior
I'm still trying to figure that out.
In theory that should be the case, but the problem with landed houses is that they are too different from one another.
There are too many factors to consider like shape of land, whether near junction and what type of junction, elevation, facing, age, plot ratio, height restriction, existing number of storeys etc.
Bungalows also tend to have bigger land area than semi-detaches, which in turn are bigger than terraces, making it very difficult to find two of similar size.
On top of that, due to the large land area, the number of transactions within each estate is much fewer compared to condos and by the time I get two comparable caveats, the time is already different.
You can see the following 4,038 sq ft bungalow in Watten Estate at 5, Watten View being transacted at $3.3 million or $817 psf but that was almost one year ago on 14 Apr 2009.
If we compare on psf basis, old house to old house, the value of land has increased 33% in the past year from $817 psf (5, Watten View) to $1,089 psf (2, Watten Close).
You could actually get a bigger house which is a bungalow in April 2009 at a lower price than a smaller house which is a corner terrace in Mar 2010.
Newbie
jlrx my idol!!! Good and valuable posts plenty...
Senior
agree totally
i have seen Semi D's with land size of a mere 2400 sqft .. and corner terrace of 3600 sqft
i will take the corner anytime .. assuming all other factors are the same
for a semi of land less than 4500 sqft .. i wont consider ...
for a corner of land bigger than 2300 sqft is better
Newbie
As a rule of thumb, just wondering which area of the following would be a generally more preferred location:
1. Coronation/Duchess
2. Watten/Hillcrest/Greenwood
3. Mount Sinai/Holland
4. Sixth Avenue/Namly
5. Binjai
6. Kheam Hock/University Road
Senior
Do you want to be near the Who is Who of Singapore?
Newbie
I don't mind if I can afforrd it.
Senior
Look for houses near SIM Bukit Timah campus.I don't mind if I can afforrd it.
Senior
yup, that's the one. For sure tear down and rebuild.
I think you should feel sad. As a long term investor, you have no intention to sell as you want to hold forever and you should be an accumulator whenever you have cash. So you should be crying when prices go up, not feeling panicky like you did last year when prices go down. Warren Bufett is a long term investor for stocks. He buys regardless of market conditions and hopes he never needs to sell. You want to do the same for properties, as that is what you believe in. So why would you be happy if prices are going up faster than you are earning/generating cash?
Are you referring to 2, Watten Close?
It's scary!
I mean the price.
Nowadays I'm getting "Landed Property Anxiety Syndrome".
I have a feeling it's reaching the "All Hell Break Loose" tipping point similar to COEs, but with such high asking price, I've got not enough money to buy another one.
And I don't know whether to feel happy or sad.
Senior
i think the rise in land price you quoted is reasonable. 1 transaction at the bottom of the market and the other being the most recent and both are obvious tear down and rebuild candidates. The problem is there are hardly any transactions in between, so rare to have decent sized land in that area come up for sale.
now, if we compare that rise in prices with condos, its about the same, you can see similar comparable transactions and % gains in condo prices so everything moving along with market so far.
I'm still trying to figure that out.
In theory that should be the case, but the problem with landed houses is that they are too different from one another.
There are too many factors to consider like shape of land, whether near junction and what type of junction, elevation, facing, age, plot ratio, height restriction, existing number of storeys etc.
Bungalows also tend to have bigger land area than semi-detaches, which in turn are bigger than terraces, making it very difficult to find two of similar size.
On top of that, due to the large land area, the number of transactions within each estate is much fewer compared to condos and by the time I get two comparable caveats, the time is already different.
You can see the following 4,038 sq ft bungalow in Watten Estate at 5, Watten View being transacted at $3.3 million or $817 psf but that was almost one year ago on 14 Apr 2009.
If we compare on psf basis, old house to old house, the value of land has increased 33% in the past year from $817 psf (5, Watten View) to $1,089 psf (2, Watten Close).
You could actually get a bigger house which is a bungalow in April 2009 at a lower price than a smaller house which is a corner terrace in Mar 2010.
Senior
the experts have already given you the answer. there are just too many factors to consider.
Junior
After analysing your analysis above, I still think that I should be happy if house prices go up, and sad if house prices go down. I should feel sad if prices go up only because I cannot buy anymore, and not happy if prices crash so that I can buy some more.
Just like in your example, Warren Buffett should feel happy if his share price goes up, and sad if it goes down (even though he has no intention of selling Berkshire Hathaway).
His Berkshire Hathaway shares have gone up from US$7.60 per share in 1965 to US$121,050 per share making him the second richest man in America. His holding of approximately 400,000 shares places his wealth at approximately US$50 billion. If the shares crash back to US$7.60 then his 400,000 shares will be worth just US$3 million
My belief in PROPERTISM has allowed me to accumulate a substantial portfolio. If property prices crash, then any Ah Beng and Ah Seng can buy the same portfolio as me, and even if I can accumulate more properties, it will become quite meaningless.
For example, it's always more meaningful to own one landed house in a country where most people cannot afford one, than to own three landed houses in a country in which everyone can afford at least one.
Do you think that this CONDOSingapore.com forum can generate the same level of enthusiasm if not for the fact that private property owners form a miniority in Singapore thus giving this forum a touch of "Elitism"?
It's the same with cars. I remember visiting a local car forum where an American software programmer popped in to boast that his sports model is faster than ours, until someone told him that since his car there costs the same as a Toyota here, he should be posting in the Toyota Club forum instead, but he didn't seem to get the hint.
Senior
nope, i don't mean crash but rather a correction. fundamentals would not allow berkshire or sg ppty prices to crash back to the starting point as your example has illustrated. like you said, ppty prices go up in the long run. if prices fall, all things the same, you can buy more than the ah beng or ah seng, so your relative market share will at least remain the same, if not increase. even though you have a substantial portoflio already, if prices fall, your "paper losses" are meaningless since you are holding the portfolio forever.
After analysing your analysis above, I still think that I should be happy if house prices go up, and sad if house prices go down. I should feel sad if prices go up only because I cannot buy anymore, and not happy if prices crash so that I can buy some more.
Just like in your example, Warren Buffett should feel happy if his share price goes up, and sad if it goes down (even though he has no intention of selling Berkshire Hathaway).
His Berkshire Hathaway shares have gone up from US$7.60 per share in 1965 to US$121,050 per share making him the second richest man in America. His holding of approximately 400,000 shares places his wealth at approximately US$50 billion. If the shares crash back to US$7.60 then his 400,000 shares will be worth just US$3 million
My belief in PROPERTISM has allowed me to accumulate a substantial portfolio. If property prices crash, then any Ah Beng and Ah Seng can buy the same portfolio as me, and even if I can accumulate more properties, it will become quite meaningless.
For example, it's always more meaningful to own one landed house in a country where most people cannot afford one, than to own three landed houses in a country in which everyone can afford at least one.
Do you think that this CONDOSingapore.com forum can generate the same level of enthusiasm if not for the fact that private property owners form a miniority in Singapore thus giving this forum a touch of "Elitism"?
It's the same with cars. I remember visiting a local car forum where an American software programmer popped in to boast that his sports model is faster than ours, until someone told him that since his car there costs the same as a Toyota here, he should be posting in the Toyota Club forum instead, but he didn't seem to get the hint.
Newbie
I think everything being equal, the landed properties in the Kheam Hock/University area have the best location. There will be an circle line MRT station at botanical gardens and you don't have to go pass Farrer Road, onto the congested Bukit Timah road, thus putting the Watten and Binjai areas at the bottom of my list. Coronation and Sixth Ave/namely are better despite the heavy traffic as you are at least not forced to do the U-turn to get onto Dunearn Road. Mt Sinai is ok as the jam on holland road is never as bad but the spaces between houses are tighter than Kheam Hock.
For ultimate dream location outside the GCB areas, One Tree Hill is the way to go.
Newbie
I think you should be happy when prices go up and happy when prices come down. When prices go up, buy yourself a Ferrari as a reward. When prices come down, buy more properties! This is of course only possible if you are not leveraged to the tilt.After analysing your analysis above, I still think that I should be happy if house prices go up, and sad if house prices go down. I should feel sad if prices go up only because I cannot buy anymore, and not happy if prices crash so that I can buy some more.
Just like in your example, Warren Buffett should feel happy if his share price goes up, and sad if it goes down (even though he has no intention of selling Berkshire Hathaway).
His Berkshire Hathaway shares have gone up from US$7.60 per share in 1965 to US$121,050 per share making him the second richest man in America. His holding of approximately 400,000 shares places his wealth at approximately US$50 billion. If the shares crash back to US$7.60 then his 400,000 shares will be worth just US$3 million
My belief in PROPERTISM has allowed me to accumulate a substantial portfolio. If property prices crash, then any Ah Beng and Ah Seng can buy the same portfolio as me, and even if I can accumulate more properties, it will become quite meaningless.
For example, it's always more meaningful to own one landed house in a country where most people cannot afford one, than to own three landed houses in a country in which everyone can afford at least one.
Do you think that this CONDOSingapore.com forum can generate the same level of enthusiasm if not for the fact that private property owners form a miniority in Singapore thus giving this forum a touch of "Elitism"?
It's the same with cars. I remember visiting a local car forum where an American software programmer popped in to boast that his sports model is faster than ours, until someone told him that since his car there costs the same as a Toyota here, he should be posting in the Toyota Club forum instead, but he didn't seem to get the hint.
Maybe that's why Warren Buffet is always HAPPY. He says he tap dances to work everyday.
Newbie
I am new to this forum and would like to seek some advice. I am currently looking at 2 clustered semi-D developmentI think everything being equal, the landed properties in the Kheam Hock/University area have the best location. There will be an circle line MRT station at botanical gardens and you don't have to go pass Farrer Road, onto the congested Bukit Timah road, thus putting the Watten and Binjai areas at the bottom of my list. Coronation and Sixth Ave/namely are better despite the heavy traffic as you are at least not forced to do the U-turn to get onto Dunearn Road. Mt Sinai is ok as the jam on holland road is never as bad but the spaces between houses are tighter than Kheam Hock.
For ultimate dream location outside the GCB areas, One Tree Hill is the way to go.
Barker Villa (barker road) - 3750sq ft @ $800 psf
Verdana Villa (serangoon) - 4570sq ft @ $630 psf
Both units work out to be about the same price at around $3 mil. Personally, I think Barker Villa is a better buy especially it is in prime district, near ACS/SCGS etc, but the actual place may be too cramp for my family. Verdana Villa is of the right size, though near the new NEX mega mall and Serangoon MRT, it is not really within walking distance.
Thus, which is a better buy?? Thanks in advance
Newbie
Have been going through the property websites and notice that the number of landed properties available for sale has shrunk. Most of the postings now are for cluster housing rather than real landed. There is very very few new postings of landed for sale and those posted are asking for sky high prices! OMG what is happening? There is apparently a sudden rush into landed properties now!!!!!!!!!! and sellers have withdrawn in anticipation of higher prices. Also understand PRs are looking into buying cluster housing now!
Newbie
what is the psf for bukit timah land? i see people asking 1500 psf!!!!
Newbie
The psf price for cluster housing quoted is based on built-in area, which is similar to how you would calculate psf for condominiums. The URA caveat lodged for a landed property is a psf price based on the size of land.
Considering the fact that the built-in area for a brand new semi-d is almost always larger than its land area, the psf price based on its built-in area will be substantially lower. Thus $630 psf quoted for Verdana Villa may not be as cheap as it seems.
If my budget is 3m, I will definitely buy a brand new, freehold semi-d in Serangoon Gardens. I own my land. I decide what kind of amenities I will have on my land. I decide how I will eventually rebuild the house on my land. No common areas. No rules and regulations. No monthly maintenance fee.
Senior
hey pal
if you can consider Barker rd and Serangoon ..it shows that location is not important to you
why pay 3 mio for serangoon ? just becos you need the space ??
for 3 mio you can get really big space better than serangoon lah
Junior
These are wise words indeed!
Your post just inspired me to write a "poem":Have been going through the property websites and notice that the number of landed properties available for sale has shrunk. Most of the postings now are for cluster housing rather than real landed. There is very very few new postings of landed for sale and those posted are asking for sky high prices! OMG what is happening? There is apparently a sudden rush into landed properties now!!!!!!!!!! and sellers have withdrawn in anticipation of higher prices. Also understand PRs are looking into buying cluster housing now!
As homes go on a high, low seek the wise.
Business Times - 10 Apr 2010
Homes on high
The shimmering skyline of Singapore's residential skyscrapers will be seeing some notable additions
By FELDA CHAY THERE is only one way to go for residential properties in Singapore: up, up and up.
When it comes to building height, the five tallest private residential buildings - perhaps a better description would be 'residential skyscrapers' - are all taller than 100 metres. All were also completed within the last four years - a clear sign that property developers here are on a high. And while residential buildings are a common sight in land-scarce Singapore, this wave is interesting because it takes residential building heights in
Singapore to a whole new level, placing them alongside commercial skyscrapers.
The mood appears to be an infectious one, with public housing developer HDB following suit with The Pinnacle@Duxton on Cantonment Road. With seven 50-storey blocks that include facilities like skybridges, the development offers a higher standard of living than previously seen in public housing.
At a grand height of 168m, The Pinnacle@Duxton (completed last December) holds the record for being the tallest public housing building in Singapore. It also comes in third place when the comparison takes into account private residential buildings.
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