Property market sentiments 2010

**bargain hunter** · 01-09-10, 19:14

its not what i think, its what i see. i can see cosmo, tribeca, rivergate every night, rivergate and cosmo mostly occupied. i m sure indos do buy these projects too but they do lease these out. juz some examples of what i have seen. i m not sure which are the condos with large indo presence.

Originally Posted by teddybear

This is what you think. I already said they also leave them vacant. Please go to those condos with large Indons presence at night and look at the lights in the condos there. (but not a good gauge just for this instance. You should also do that during 2007 Dec when property prices at the peak and 2009 March when property prices at the lowest also because it is still the same 50-70% occupied).

**devilplate** · 01-09-10, 19:17

Originally Posted by teddybear

It is also a fact that when there are firesale in high-end, the general people usually won't see them (if real bargain, would have been bought the agents (if they have the financing power), their relatives & friends, their preferred high networth clients, (in that order)).

true also...

but i managed to sniff out some hot hot deals last yr (jus nid to pay comm as a buyer...

)

however, i see those >5mil firesales...also see liao lao zap nia....i only have so much $$$.....just wear the right sized hat will do

dun even has enuff cash to buy sentosa condo and sky11 when firesale appear....sianzzzzz.....when got $ to buy.....not cheap anymore

**bargain hunter** · 01-09-10, 19:57

hey orange, i know and agree with wat u said wat. just citing a few simplified examples to discuss with teddy mah. i'm bad at expressing lah, dun anyhow shoot me leh.

Originally Posted by orange

u 50% salah lah.

indons have nassim and grange, at the same time they also have newton, east coast, river valley.

by the way, many of them buy 5 or 6 units in cash ok. these 5 or 6 units are spread out around 1st and 2nd tier prime districts, including non traditional places like east coast and marina bay. they lease out some, keep some for own stay.

how i know? i am singaporean, but....

so pls dont simplify things with your dogmatic approach to property.

**bargain hunter** · 01-09-10, 19:59

u r right. i also dunno how to calculate. leave it to the analysts to estimate the residential portion (if they dare) in the newspapers tomorrow.

Originally Posted by devilplate

Bro BH: any idea tat bedok winning bid at 841psf considered damn high? its a mixed devt....i duno how to calculate wor...commercial portion higher

**bargain hunter** · 01-09-10, 20:06

DTL ends at liang court but thomson line could still have a station at kim seng, opposite centennia suites.

Originally Posted by Condorich

I read it differently....

Developer most probably invited Jackie Chan when they got wind that the MRT is not within their vicinity... use his name + emily lau or something? to market the units and draw in the crowds. Why report in the news? must have reason right?

Back to Jackie... he is rich enough and expert enough to get the best units way early.... why grab balance units? Something fishy? He might get them at a huge discount through cash kickbacks... you never know right?

Anyway MRT is confirmed not near to it now.... The Liang Court Robertson Area should be up up up... slowly slowly slowly.

**bargain hunter** · 01-09-10, 20:08

going forward, even less firesales for >5m. but 3 to 5m maybe got chance.

Originally Posted by devilplate

true also...

but i managed to sniff out some hot hot deals last yr (jus nid to pay comm as a buyer...

)

however, i see those >5mil firesales...also see liao lao zap nia....i only have so much $$$.....just wear the right sized hat will do

dun even has enuff cash to buy sentosa condo and sky11 when firesale appear....sianzzzzz.....when got $ to buy.....not cheap anymore

**DC33_2008** · 01-09-10, 20:20

Dorsett Residences sold out at VIP preview. Market is still strong.

**jlrx** · 01-09-10, 22:06

Originally Posted by DC33_2008

Dorsett Residences sold out at VIP preview. Market is still strong.

When the government needs to apply brakes, the market must be strong.

Anyone who doesn't know that obviously doesn't know how to drive.

Your car doesn't reverse when you apply brakes.

**devilplate** · 01-09-10, 23:42

Originally Posted by jlrx

When the government needs to apply brakes, the market must be strong.

Anyone who doesn't know that obviously doesn't know how to drive.

Your car doesn't reverse when you apply brakes.

i am impressed by ur analogy

**EBD** · 02-09-10, 08:59

Originally Posted by devilplate

just kapoh here

NOT ALL INVESTORS WHO BOT INTO HIGH END PROJECTS TAT WORTH MILLIONS(MORE DEN 5MIL) GOT HOLDING POWER!!!!!!!!!!! ITS A MYTH

last yr, i saw so so many firesales mostly from high end projects....hahahaha

got few hundred units in tat project...bound to have weaker sellers.....so y care about the profile of the buyers???? does it mean jet li/jacky chan bot a unit there....den SURE MAKE $$$$????? hahahaha

You are right. Sure there are many with deep pockets, but there will always be the speculator element. When conditions change they may reconsider their position.

Price is set by weakest holder in a downturn, not strongest holder.
You can hold long long, ask high price - I dont buy from you.
I will buy from the guy that is saying "to hell with the cheese, let me out of the trap"

**DC33_2008** · 02-09-10, 09:09

That is why property investment is supposed to be an advantage for the cash rich. However, people from different walks of life is coming in to play the property game. Garment is worried about the latter group and discouraged them.

Originally Posted by EBD

You are right. Sure there are many with deep pockets, but there will always be the speculator element. When conditions change they may reconsider their position.

Price is set by weakest holder in a downturn, not strongest holder.
You can hold long long, ask high price - I dont buy from you.
I will buy from the guy that is saying "to hell with the cheese, let me out of the trap"

**sfwoo** · 02-09-10, 10:18

Originally Posted by jlrx

Your car doesn't reverse when you apply brakes.

HAHAHA!

You have become my God of Property!

**solarius** · 02-09-10, 11:49

but jam too hard and the car will crash

**devilplate** · 02-09-10, 12:01

Originally Posted by solarius

but jam too hard and the car will crash

jam too hard will not crash....mabe skid

but if dun jam....car will CRASH!

**Condorich** · 02-09-10, 16:05

Originally Posted by ocoloco79

alamak, I should have kept my hdb flat instead of selling it last month

!

Not correct... should be sell and buy another.. Sell is also ok... you have cash to catch new lows.. just not HDB anymore. Whatever it is... property is going down due to cooling measures... buy another when it is at the tail end before going up again.

Already said, if have enough cash, just buy and buy and buy... no need to worry about price high or low.. sell only when high (ur HDB was done at a high).

If no money.... good luck when the bankers call..

**Condorich** · 02-09-10, 16:14

Originally Posted by ocoloco79

My neighbours on the fifth floor facing chimney at coffee shop selling 30K COV in run down condition, totally unliveable(walls and floor tiles crack, no furnishing) and people bite. Valuation may include reno, but not movable furnishings plus electrical appliances which in my case I am including them all in. In fact I am too impaitient according to my agent as he is confident of 80K COV if I am willing to wait. My unit 6 mins to MRT, lift landing, high floor and totally unblock view. I sold my unit in less than a week at 55K COV. M not complaining, jus regret selling my flat since I may not own a hdb again.

You ask them again now if there are anymore such buyers....

Ask your agent to find u another deal at 80k.... then you come in and talk WITH A BIG REGRET.

You are wrong about not able to own a HDB again... you can always own one... just have to sell that private. Anyway its your own decision.. cannot blame anyone.... if you want to blame... blame your own self.

**KC76** · 02-09-10, 16:17

Originally Posted by Condorich

Not correct... should be sell and buy another.. Sell is also ok... you have cash to catch new lows.. just not HDB anymore. Whatever it is... property is going down due to cooling measures... buy another when it is at the tail end before going up again.

Already said, if have enough cash, just buy and buy and buy... no need to worry about price high or low.. sell only when high (ur HDB was done at a high).

If no money.... good luck when the bankers call..

Gee... me wanted to get a pte. Hdb outstanding loan left about $180K and 9 yrs left. Income about $10k pm... what would be a comfortable condo for me generally speaking? $800k? The 30% is not a problemo...

**Condorich** · 02-09-10, 16:31

Originally Posted by KC76

Gee... me wanted to get a pte. Hdb outstanding loan left about $180K and 9 yrs left. Income about $10k pm... what would be a comfortable condo for me generally speaking? $800k? The 30% is not a problemo...

Hahha... why ask me? Do I look like a consultant to you?

I give crap advices.

If you have HDB loan outstanding... go fly kite...and forget about private. Unless you have enough cash to cover the outstanding and use only the excess of the cash for the 10% down.

Anyway the condo that may be suitable for u is EC.

**rattydrama** · 02-09-10, 17:00

may not be a consultant but very "calculative" so could be better than consultant - I enjoy reading your post. Very logical. Actually I only read about yr advice to ocoloco79 yesterday where it happended in April??. But your advice is something that I wanted to do it since June. I like the way you mentioned about downgrade. However, ocoloco79 sold hers last month but I only got a very high valuation just last week. So dont have enough time to shop for a resale flat even if I sold mine last week.

So now I intend to keep my flat since I cannot buy back HDB anymore unless I give up my private which I do not intend to so do.

As my flat is huge the best option is to downgrade before the rules kicks in. So now have to settle for 2nd best.

I also like to way devilplate mentioned about 60% loan and 40% down-payment. Very sound advice as well.

Save enough cash and shop for next available buys again.

Originally Posted by Condorich

Hahha... why ask me? Do I look like a consultant to you?

I give crap advices.

If you have HDB loan outstanding... go fly kite...and forget about private. Unless you have enough cash to cover the outstanding and use only the excess of the cash for the 10% down.

Anyway the condo that may be suitable for u is EC.

**rattydrama** · 02-09-10, 17:03

Originally Posted by devilplate

jam too hard will not crash....mabe skid

but if dun jam....car will CRASH!

Buy BMW, traction control - you jam hard sure stop.

**Condorich** · 02-09-10, 17:08

Originally Posted by rattydrama

may not be a consultant but very "calculative" so could be better than consultant - I enjoy reading your post. Very logical. Actually I only read about yr advice to ocoloco79 yesterday where it happended in April??. But your advice is something that I wanted to do it since June. I like the way you mentioned about downgrade. However, ocoloco79 sold hers last month but I only got a very high valuation just last week. So dont have enough time to shop for a resale flat even if I sold mine last week.

So now I intend to keep my flat since I cannot buy back HDB anymore unless I give up my private which I do not intend to so do.

As my flat is huge the best option is to downgrade before the rules kicks in. So now have to settle for 2nd best.

I also like to way devilplate mentioned about 60% loan and 40% down-payment. Very sound advice as well.

Save enough cash and shop for next available buys again.

Thanks Rattydrama..

Went a little way out to help someone whom I thought was worth helping... You never know when they will bite the hand that feed them.

Anyway on your point.

Due to the change in HDB rules.... one should never ever sell HDB flats again. They start with 1 HDB and buy many many Pte thereafter.

Before the rules changed again. Such as HDB owners with 1 HDB and 1 or Many Private must sell their HDB if they want to Buy another private. The decision makers are the ones to ask if that will become reality.

I sing the same tune with devilplate... regarding 40% down. But I would prefer 50% down + 20% spare cash in bank set aside and the rest use rental to finance it self through 5 to 10 years.

**ocoloco79** · 02-09-10, 17:10

No la no regrets at all haha, dun think can fetch that high price in future

Originally Posted by Condorich

You ask them again now if there are anymore such buyers....

Ask your agent to find u another deal at 80k.... then you come in and talk WITH A BIG REGRET.

You are wrong about not able to own a HDB again... you can always own one... just have to sell that private. Anyway its your own decision.. cannot blame anyone.... if you want to blame... blame your own self.

**Condorich** · 02-09-10, 17:13

Originally Posted by ocoloco79

No la no regrets at all haha, dun think can fetch that high price in future

Ok, it will be clearer to you in 3/6/9 and 12 months later... Do not sit on the fence all the time and believe only in agents talk. Have you seen the real closed deal? Trust no one but yourself ok?

**ocoloco79** · 02-09-10, 17:14

No
Definitely not crap advises, I love your advices! If not for your advices I will be stucked. Though initially heartpain about not being able to own hdb with private, but given another choice, I will still make the same decision

Originally Posted by Condorich

Hahha... why ask me? Do I look like a consultant to you?

I give crap advices.

If you have HDB loan outstanding... go fly kite...and forget about private. Unless you have enough cash to cover the outstanding and use only the excess of the cash for the 10% down.

Anyway the condo that may be suitable for u is EC.

**devilplate** · 02-09-10, 17:18

Originally Posted by Condorich

I sing the same tune with devilplate... regarding 40% down. But I would prefer 50% down + 20% spare cash in bank set aside and the rest use rental to finance it self through 5 to 10 years.

usually 40% down with max tenure 30/35yrs, rental shd be able to cover mthly installment even during downturn....

definitely nid to set aside cash in case cannot find tenant!

for salaried buyer: always ask urself whether u can afford the installment if u got retrench

however, if every1 so disciplined....whr to find firesale?????

**ocoloco79** · 02-09-10, 17:27

Agree! Definitely better than consultant. I will always remember one very valuable advice from him:

"It is not what you miss to gain, BUT what you stand to lose that really matters." --quoted by condorich

Originally Posted by rattydrama

may not be a consultant but very "calculative" so could be better than consultant - I enjoy reading your post. Very logical. Actually I only read about yr advice to ocoloco79 yesterday where it happended in April??. But your advice is something that I wanted to do it since June. I like the way you mentioned about downgrade. However, ocoloco79 sold hers last month but I only got a very high valuation just last week. So dont have enough time to shop for a resale flat even if I sold mine last week.

So now I intend to keep my flat since I cannot buy back HDB anymore unless I give up my private which I do not intend to so do.

As my flat is huge the best option is to downgrade before the rules kicks in. So now have to settle for 2nd best.

I also like to way devilplate mentioned about 60% loan and 40% down-payment. Very sound advice as well.

Save enough cash and shop for next available buys again.

**xebay11** · 02-09-10, 17:34

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

u r right. i also dunno how to calculate. leave it to the analysts to estimate the residential portion (if they dare) in the newspapers tomorrow.

Very simple, if it is mixed development, the profits from the sale of residential would pay off the whole development. The developer gets the shopping centre for free and collects super high rent for the next 99 years. Win-Win.

**KC76** · 02-09-10, 17:36

Originally Posted by Condorich

Hahha... why ask me? Do I look like a consultant to you?

I give crap advices.

If you have HDB loan outstanding... go fly kite...and forget about private. Unless you have enough cash to cover the outstanding and use only the excess of the cash for the 10% down.

Anyway the condo that may be suitable for u is EC.

No lah, I intend to keep my hdb since hdb is getting rare these days with the implementation of recent policy. Think I will save for 40% downpayment before I hoot a $800K condo.

Thanks for your advice.

**devilplate** · 02-09-10, 17:59

Originally Posted by xebay11

Very simple, if it is mixed development, the profits from the sale of residential would pay off the whole development. The developer gets the shopping centre for free and collects super high rent for the next 99 years. Win-Win.

so meaning they will target to sell at 841psf land cost+300psf construction cost=1141psf for the residential??

**fclim** · 02-09-10, 18:06

Originally Posted by devilplate

jam too hard will not crash....mabe skid

but if dun jam....car will CRASH!

Brakes don't work, car will crash faster!

From today's ST, even overseas properties would also have to be sold within 6 months. This will affect many PRs wanting to buy HDB.

So now, overseas property markets are affected as well.

Bottomline : Rental rates will definitely increase liao....

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