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Thread: Property market sentiments 2010

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    Default Property market sentiments 2010

    New Thread.
    Comments welcome.
    Let's be friendly.

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    Dwn !!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    New Thread.
    Comments welcome.
    Let's be friendly.
    Good New Thread !

    I was going to comment about "focus" in the other thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    Haha.. ... Blame it on the Focus

    Well.. I can only say ..i've been sitting on all the tips and news and advice... coz I was waiting for my balls to grow.. I don't have balls of steel like some of you guys.

    But jokes aside, I really appreciate this forum as it gives me a very good education on property investment. I would rate this the number 1 property forum for me!

    Property_owner, very near but I am driving the new mercs e-class, not a BMW (Don't like the current look). But considering upgrading my other car to a Z4 year end if the stock market holds up. And NO! I wouldn't want to know what cars you have.. Your 40 properties already scared the shit out of me..
    "focus" is to be blamed for causing HDB prices to be so high.

    So rich still stay in HDB flat.

    Then the buyers offer COV of $500,000 also no use. Just look at his "new mercs e-class" and "Z4". Already going to cost $500,000.

    How can HDB prices come down when there are people like "focus" staying there?

    No wonder there are so many complaints in the Straits Times forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straits Times Forum
    The Straits Times Sep 17, 2009

    Four ways to bring down flat prices

    I APPLAUD the new measures by the Government to curb speculation in the property market and reinstate the Government Land Sales Programme.

    However, they do little to alleviate the structural problems at the root of the resale HDB market and the frustrations of many home seekers. It is too easy to blame cash over valuation (COV) for the rampant rise in resale prices or repeat continuously that resale HDB flats are affordable.

    Four measures could be taken to significantly improve the supply of resale HDB flats and thus lower prices.

    HDB flats should be affordable housing only for genuine home owners who occupy the flats. They should not be used for investment or rental income.
    The resale market is still tight because many owners, who have already moved out, are simply holding on to their property or hoping for a collective sale.
    If owners do not live in their flats any more, they should be put on the market immediately.

    There should be an income and assets cap for owners of HDB flats. If the owners are very successful in life after buying an HDB flat, they should leave their property on reaching a certain threshold and sell it.
    It is not right that families with multiple properties and very high salaries are able to hold on to their HDB flats.

    Have a staggered income ceiling instead of a blanket one of $8,000, applicable across all HDB flats ranging from $200,000 to $600,000.
    For example, have an $8,000 income ceiling for flats valued below $400,000, a $10,000 ceiling for flats valued above that and below $600,000, and $12,000 ceiling for flats valued above $600,000.

    Take property agents out of the equation. HDB should stimulate and facilitate direct owner-buyer contact.

    I urge HDB to consider these measures to tackle the problem at its root and let go of its free-property-market thinking.

    Lim Hing Kok
    Last edited by jlrx; 22-01-10 at 12:52.

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    URA Q4 private home price index up 7.4%; 2009 up 1.8%
    Kalpana Rashiwala
    The Business Times
    Friday, 22 January 2010, 12.40 pm

    Urban Redevelopment Authority's official price index for private homes rose 7.4% in Q4 2009 over the preceding quarter, slightly higher than the 7.3% rise for the period based on its flash estimate released on Jan 4 this year.

    URA said its price index for office, shop and industrial properties increased by 1.0%, 0.6% and 1.8% respectively in the Q4 2009 over the preceding quarter.

    For the whole of 2009, prices of private residential properties increased by 1.8%, while those of office, shop and industrial properties decreased by 16.4%, 6.1% and 14.4% respectively, URA said.

    Rntls of private residential and industrial properties ncrsd by .6% and 0.3% respectively quarter on quarter in Q4 2009, while those of office and shop properties decreased by 3.3% and 1.4% respectively over the same period.

    For the whole of 2009, rentals of private residential properties, office, shop and industrial properties decreased by 14.6%, 23.6%, 7.4% and 13.4% respectively.

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    Actually I also wanna comment on HDB dwellers.. I dunno wat the heck are they staying there becoz so many of the families staying on the same floor as mine easily 2-3 cars..making me feel ashame of myself. Going home late at night is always dreadful becoz I have to park all the way to the rooftop..just imagine 10 cars on 1 level of a HDB block where I am staying. This is insane man.. they should all sell lower and upgrade to private in double quick time so genuine HDB buyers can get at more affordable price and yeah then we can stop blaming focus

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    i am bullish about 2010 for HDB and condo properties.

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    I do like the way the system works now, but perhaps tweak it to be purely a citizen's right, rather than PR/immigrants. When i retire from the corporate world, I would go back to HDB living and lead the simple life.

    HDB should always remain the social safety net for citizens

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    I do like the way the system works now, but perhaps tweak it to be purely a citizen's right, rather than PR/immigrants. When i retire from the corporate world, I would go back to HDB living and lead the simple life.

    HDB should always remain the social safety net for citizens
    Err ... immigrants are also citizens leh.

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    wow a different tune u r singing here, i thought used to despise hdb lifestyle with all those delinquents at void decks, graffitti etc etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    I do like the way the system works now, but perhaps tweak it to be purely a citizen's right, rather than PR/immigrants. When i retire from the corporate world, I would go back to HDB living and lead the simple life.

    HDB should always remain the social safety net for citizens

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbird72, SkyscraperCity, 21 January 2010 11.19 am
    ..........
    ..........

    JPM bll property; say upturn could last through 1H2012


    This sector report highlights Christopher Gee's views that:

    1. The Singapore property sector is in an upturn that could last through to 1H 2012;

    2. Singapore property developers like City Developments and Wing Tai provide the best leverage to this upturn;

    3. The Singapore property developer stocks should outperform the S-REITs.
    Upgrade Wing Tai to Overweight from Neutral. Downgrade A-REIT, CapitaRetail, China Trust to Neutral from Overweight.
    Top Picks: City Devs, Capitaland, Fraser Centrepoint Trust, CDL Hospitality Trusts, and CapitaMall Trust. Raise TPs CDL Hosp, City Devs, Guocoland, WP.


    Property developers to move on RNAV upgrades: Singapore property developers' share prices tend to close the gap (and may even trade at a premium) to RNAV estimates during market up-turns on the expectation of sustained increases in underlying property prices. We expect the Singapore property developers to deliver a blended 13% price return in 2010.

    S-REITs to deliver single-digit total returns in 2010: We expect the S-REITs will begin to trade like REITs normally trade in 2010 and generate aggregate 7% total returns this year, dominated by the yield.

    Key sector risks: A reversal in the currently buoyant liquidity conditions
    and a sudden, unanticipated rise in risk-free rates across the curve would
    dampen sentiment towards the sector. Lowered physical property price growth expectations would be a de-rating catalyst for the stocks in the sector.
    Wah!
    1st half of 2012?

    JPMorgan copied the number from the movie "2012"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    wow a different tune u r singing here, i thought used to despise hdb lifestyle with all those delinquents at void decks, graffitti etc etc?
    retire mah, dun need to watch out for kid no more. they can graffitti my wall for all i care.

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    btw reg, thanks for the jb lobang. agent is quite good. thanks!

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    in retrospect, you're right. my tune is changing because at the end of the day, i still want access to cheap HDB housing no matter what - so i'm selfish in this respect.

    i fear all the noise in the papers and forum is gonna change things. people should just let the system be

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    it is not the graffitti outside ur house, it is the paint splashed at your door even if it is the wrong house...lol... Maybe u can consider moving back to East Coast when u retire and I think people there seem to be more civilised.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    retire mah, dun need to watch out for kid no more. they can graffitti my wall for all i care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    it is not the graffitti outside ur house, it is the paint splashed at your door even if it is the wrong house...lol... Maybe u can consider moving back to East Coast when u retire and I think people there seem to be more civilised.
    yup yup, IF it's not been enbloc-ed yet.

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    I LOVE EAST COAST!!!!!!!!!! Laid back, yet atas feel...

    In fact, although I'm not an angmo, my likes are pretty much similar to theirs. Colorful areas, eg. Little India, rowdy market areas etc... are all nice. Just don't want bland boring HDB heartlander estate (because all are sama sama and cookie cutter)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulho77
    Dwn !!!!!!!!

    LOL thats fast ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Good New Thread !



    Then the buyers offer COV of $500,000 also no use. Just look at his "new mercs e-class" and "Z4". Already going to cost $500,000.

    How can HDB prices come down when there are people like "focus" staying there?
    Z4 is like a woman's car leh ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    Z4 is like a woman's car leh ...
    Focus should be a guy right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Focus should be a guy right.
    he buy for his darling ...

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    I beg to differ ..... Quite nice leh


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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    I beg to differ ..... Quite nice leh

    u have to agree its a chick magnet ~~

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    u have to agree its a chick magnet ~~
    dunno about that but the 0-100 after JB3 and some nice downpipes will be 4secs so that's really fun

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    Cool

    Property_owner,

    Thanks for starting a new thread!!!

    My bets for 2010:

    HDB: Limited upside from current levels. Price normalisation measures expected given it is anticipated to be an election year.

    Mass market (OCR/RCR): Limited upside given close proxy to HDB segment, though some upside will be expected for properties close to future land sales or new developments being announced.

    Limited upside for landed segment in the OCR region, unless HDB segment surprises on the upside.

    High end segment (CCR): May be mixed given the supply of TOP units coming on board.

    If I have $10M, I will look for the biggest land plot I can find in the CCR in 2010. That's where i place my bets on in 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by dtrax
    Actually I also wanna comment on HDB dwellers.. I dunno wat the heck are they staying there becoz so many of the families staying on the same floor as mine easily 2-3 cars..making me feel ashame of myself. Going home late at night is always dreadful becoz I have to park all the way to the rooftop..just imagine 10 cars on 1 level of a HDB block where I am staying. This is insane man.. they should all sell lower and upgrade to private in double quick time so genuine HDB buyers can get at more affordable price and yeah then we can stop blaming focus
    So many HDB dwellers here! woah....

    looks like the graffiti, delinquents and loan sharking fears may be overblown. otherwise many of the millionaire forumers (hiding in HDB) here won't be posting in peace.

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    similar views with you.

    There are plenty of others who will highlight the positive news, so here's some data from URA website which may not be emphasised by the media (Since its the start of a new year, I am not here for war but to make peace. , just some contrarian info):

    For the whole of 2009, rentals of private residential properties decreased by 14.6%. Rentals of non-landed properties in CCR, RCR and OCR decreased by 15.9%, 14.9% and 14.0% respectively.

    As at 4th Quarter 2009, there were 60,476 private residential units in the pipeline. Of these, 34,234 units were still unsold. These comprised 3,317 units that had been launched for sale by developers and 10,620 units which had the pre-requisite conditions for sale and could be launched for sale immediately. The remaining 20,297 units with planning approvals did not have the pre-requisite conditions for sale.

    Of the 60,476 uncompleted units of private housing from projects in the pipeline, 22,390 units, 17,390 units and 20,696 units were in CCR, RCR and OCR respectively.

    Of these, about 45,518 private residential units were expected to be completed between 2010 and 2013.


    Quote Originally Posted by new2mondrian
    Property_owner,

    Thanks for starting a new thread!!!

    My bets for 2010:

    HDB: Limited upside from current levels. Price normalisation measures expected given it is anticipated to be an election year.

    Mass market (OCR/RCR): Limited upside given close proxy to HDB segment, though some upside will be expected for properties close to future land sales or new developments being announced.

    Limited upside for landed segment in the OCR region, unless HDB segment surprises on the upside.

    High end segment (CCR): May be mixed given the supply of TOP units coming on board.

    If I have $10M, I will look for the biggest land plot I can find in the CCR in 2010. That's where i place my bets on in 2010.



    So many HDB dwellers here! woah....

    looks like the graffiti, delinquents and loan sharking fears may be overblown. otherwise many of the millionaire forumers (hiding in HDB) here won't be posting in peace.

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    Q4 median CV for HDB resale transactions srs to $24,000
    Kalpana Rashiwala
    The Business Times
    Friday, 22 January 2010, 12.53 pm

    The volume of resale transactions declined by about 23% from 11,649 cases in Q3 2009 to 8,926 cases in Q4 2009. The total number of resale transactions in 2009 was 37,205, an increase of 31% over 2008.

    HDB also said the median Cash-Over-Valuation (CV) amount among all resale transactions was $24,000 in Q4 2009, dbl the $12,000 in Q3 2009.

    In 4th quarter last year, 93% of transactions were above valuation. 'The median COV amount has stabilised in recent months, with the figure for the 1st half of this month down to $22,000,' HDB said.

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    Marine Parade condo prcs head nrth
    The Edge
    Monday, 18 January 2010


    Cote DAzur

    Private previews of The Shore Residences (the former Rose Garden enbloc site) by Far East Organization in December followed by an official launch on Jan 1 drew crowds to the showflat on weekends. The new 408-unit development opposite Katong Shopping Centre has seen close to 200 units sold at an average price of $1,175 psf as at last week.

    Whats more, the project has also spurred renewed interest in the Marine Parade-Amber Road neighbourhood in East Coast, according to the URA Realis database of caveats lodged from Dec 18 to Dec 23.

    The development that has seen close to half a dozen units change hands at prices ranging from $920 to $1,000 psf in December was the 612-unit Cote DAzur, a 99-year leasehold condominium completed in 2004 by Fraser Centrepoint Homes. The highest transacted price at Cote DAzur last month was for an 840 sqft, 4th-floor apartment, which was sold for $840,000 ($1,000 psf), according to a Dec 1 caveat. The seller had bought the apartment only eight months earlier for $690,000, or $822 psf, hence seeing a 22% capital appreciation in that short period. It shows just how dramatic the turnaround in the market was last year.

    2 1,141 sqft apartments one on the 18th floor of Block 68 and the other on the 7th floor of Block 66 were sold for $1.088 million ($954 psf) and $1.05 million ($920 psf), respectively in December. The owner of the 18th-floor unit had purchased it for $687,300 ($602 psf) in July 2002 when the project was first launched. Thus, the seller saw a 58.5% capital gain after 7 years. Likewise, the owner of a 7th-floor unit had also purhased it from the developer for $662,070, or $580 psf, thus seeing a 58.6% gain over the same period.

    2 4th-floor apartments in Block 66 were sold in late December, according to caveats lodged on Dec 21 and 22. One was a 904 sqft unit that was sold for $836,000 ($925 psf), while the other was a 1,539 unit that went for $1.52 million ($987 psf). The owner of the 904 sq ft unit had purchased it from the developer in August 2004 for $472,000, or $522 psf. At that time, the property market was at the bottom of the cycle, thus the owner saw a 77% gain from the sale after 5 years.

    The owner of the 1,539 sq ft apartment had purchased the unit in July 2002, when the project was launched, for $854,340, or $555 psf. He enjoyed a 78% price appreciation after seven years.

    Across the road from Cote DAzur is the 546-unit freehold condo The Sea View by Wheelock Properties, which was completed in 2008. In December, 2 apartments at the high-end project were sold at prices in the $1,400 psf range.

    A 6th-floor apartment of 1,410 sqft at Block 37 of The Sea View was sold for $2 million ($1,418 psf). The last time the property changed hands was in a sub-sale in July 2006, when it was sold for $1.18 million ($838 psf). The first owner had purchased the unit for $1.08 million ($769 psf) when the project was first launched in July 2005.

    A 19th-floor, 1,216 sqft apartment at Block 31 of The Sea View was sold for $1.726 million ($1,420 psf) in December. The owner had purchased the property in a sub-sale in April 2008 for $1.568 million ($1,290 psf).

    Also in the neighbourhood is One Amber, a 562-unit development by joint developers UIC, Singapore Land and UOL Group. The project is expected to receive its temporary occupation permit in 1Q2010. The most recent transaction was that of a 15th-floor apartment in one of the 4 23-storey blocks. The unit was sold for $1.47 million ($1,120 psf). The owner had purchased the 1,313 sqft apartment for $1.01 million ($769 psf) in December 2006, hence enjoying a 46% gain.

    From the transaction prices in the secondary market, it is clear that prices in the Marine Parade-Amber Road neighbourhood are heading back to the pk levels seen in mid-2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter

    URA Q4 private home price index up 7.4%; 2009 up 1.8%
    Kalpana Rashiwala
    The Business Times
    Friday, 22 January 2010, 12.40 pm

    Urban Redevelopment Authority's official price index for private homes rose 7.4% in Q4 2009 over the preceding quarter, slightly higher than the 7.3% rise for the period based on its flash estimate released on Jan 4 this year.

    URA said its price index for office, shop and industrial properties increased by 1.0%, 0.6% and 1.8% respectively in the Q4 2009 over the preceding quarter.

    For the whole of 2009, prices of private residential properties increased by 1.8%, while those of office, shop and industrial properties decreased by 16.4%, 6.1% and 14.4% respectively, URA said.

    Rntls of private residential and industrial properties ncrsd by .6% and 0.3% respectively quarter on quarter in Q4 2009, while those of office and shop properties decreased by 3.3% and 1.4% respectively over the same period.

    For the whole of 2009, rentals of private residential properties, office, shop and industrial properties decreased by 14.6%, 23.6%, 7.4% and 13.4% respectively.
    Although Private Residential rental is on an upturn with a quarterly gain of 0.6% in Q4 '09, some retard may still choose to con others into believing rental is still on a downturn.

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    HSBC say ...
    A concerns of an oversupply are verblown. The 34,100 figure of unsold units in the 3rd quarter of this year is much lower than the 43,400 in the 4th quarter of last year, and not far from the all-time lw of 30,300 in 2007.

    The retard says otherwise.

    Who should I believe? HSBC or the retard?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr funny
    Dec 12, 2009

    Surge in asset prices to fuel inflation: HSBC

    Rate could hit 4% next half-year as spending and home prices climb

    By Fiona Chan

    ..........
    ..........

    HSBC also expects the property market to continue to strengthen. Interest rates are still low, banks are still prepared to lend and households are not saddled with a lot of debt, which means borrowing to buy a home should be relatively cheap and easy.

    Also, the huge number of property deals between March and September this year augurs well for prices, said Mr Prior- Wandesforde. According to his data, a jump in transactions often leads to a surge in housing prices.

    The price gap between HDB flats and private homes is also close to the narrowest it has been since the 1990s, before which data is not available.

    A narrow price gap usually means that more HDB dwellers will upgrade to private housing, Mr Prior-Wandesforde said.

    He believes concerns of an oversupply are overblown. The 34,100 figure of unsold units in the third quarter of this year is much lower than the 43,400 in the 4th quarter of last year, and not far from the all-time low of 30,300 in 2007, he said.

    All this means that Mr Prior-Wandesforde expects private home prices to rise an average of 2% to 3% for each quarter next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    The retard says otherwise.

    Who should I believe? HSBC or the retard?
    aiyo is there a need to retard here retard there?... be polite leh

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