Need Advices from all experts here!!

[levittdub]

Guys,

Can we move the banter to another thread please? It's way off-course now.

[Property_Owner]

what's the allure of the sail? u guys betting on the fact that MBS and MBR (being transacted at $2300psf upwards) will make Sail at $1700psf onwards a great bargain is it? But a carparking-facing unit at Sail will be no different from a unit at Icon right?

If market chong up for Bay facing or MBR, this carpark facing unit also move up. Dun be afraid to buy, tell yourself that when come to selling there will be a ''not so rich buyer'' willing to buy this unit.

Icon? Tenants might move out once Altez start construction. Plus to me same thoughts as gfoo, it's neither here or there.

[new2mondrian]

If market chong up for Bay facing or MBR, this carpark facing unit also move up. Dun be afraid to buy, tell yourself that when come to selling there will be a ''not so rich buyer'' willing to buy this unit.

Icon? Tenants might move out once Altez start construction. Plus to me same thoughts as gfoo, it's neither here or there.

that's true about icon. but to spend more than $1M staring at carpark walls and staying in a studio mousehole is seriously sad for the would-be buyer.... hence better think thrice.... unless the carpark mousehole has side view of the bay (or stretch neck out can see bay)???

[Property_Owner]

that's true about icon. but to spend more than $1M staring at carpark walls and staying in a studio mousehole is seriously sad for the would-be buyer.... hence better think thrice.... unless the carpark mousehole has side view of the bay (or stretch neck out can see bay)???

You must ask gfoo why he want to buy this POS studio.

[gfoo]

You must ask gfoo why he want to buy this POS studio.

definitely not for investment or renting out. prob my mom and/or baby brother to stay so the fambly is under 'one roof', but still not too close for comfort. good also for my brother if he finds a job in the city when he graduates in a few years time

toying with this idea coz i'm not like terribly rich - middle class scraping by so must stretch the dollar

[hans]

Try uob, 1yr fix at 1.48%, thereafter 3 month SOR+1.75%. 1 yr lock-in

or better still, start repaying all the loans will be a great idea. currently offloading all my shares to pare off the loans.

by the way, which bank are u taking the fixed rate 1.98% from? and what is the rate after 2 years? currently mine are all sibor+0.7% to sibor+1% for the entire loan tenure without locked in.

[jlrx]

Guys,

Can we move the banter to another thread please? It's way off-course now.

There is no banter here.

There are lots of valuable property info hidden within the posts.

e.g. from "Property_Owner" and "gfoo"'s posts I've learned a lot about the Marina Bay area, which I'm not familiar; from focus' landed house hunting I get a feel of the landed market without getting out of my armchair; from new2mondrian I reaffirmed my feel that the landed market had been going up all the time (contrary to Straits Times' 2009 reports).

I also contribute useful info, but they're hidden as clues, such as "getting out of my armchair again very soon". It tells you something is stirring in a very important sector of the property market.

What does that mean? You have to read between the lines.

[focus]

Haha.. ... Blame it on the Focus

Well.. I can only say ..i've been sitting on all the tips and news and advice... coz I was waiting for my balls to grow.. I don't have balls of steel like some of you guys.

But jokes aside, I really appreciate this forum as it gives me a very good education on property investment. I would rate this the number 1 property forum for me!

Property_owner, very near but I am driving the new mercs e-class, not a BMW (Don't like the current look). But considering upgrading my other car to a Z4 year end if the stock market holds up. And NO! I wouldn't want to know what cars you have.. Your 40 properties already scared the shit out of me..

[levittdub]

There is no banter here.

There are lots of valuable property info hidden within the posts.

e.g. from "Property_Owner" and "gfoo"'s posts I've learned a lot about the Marina Bay area, which I'm not familiar; from focus' landed house hunting I get a feel of the landed market without getting out of my armchair; from new2mondrian I reaffirmed my feel that the landed market had been going up all the time (contrary to Straits Times' 2009 reports).

I also contribute useful info, but they're hidden as clues, such as "getting out of my armchair again very soon". It tells you something is stirring in a very important sector of the property market.

What does that mean? You have to read between the lines.

The conversation has been an interesting read. But for the sake of moderating the forum, a new thread titled "House Hunting for the next Quater" may be more suitable.

[august]

The conversation has been an interesting read. But for the sake of moderating the forum, a new thread titled "House Hunting for the next Quater" may be more suitable.

no one stopping u from starting such a thread

[Allthepies]

I've sold 100% of my stock holdings

Wow u r good, market just crashed today!

[RVestor]

Hi,

My situation is quite similar in certain ways and I hope to get experts’ advice from this forum.

I am currently staying in Sengkang 5 rm (9 years old), and within 300 metres from the MRT.

In March last year, my wife and I bought our 1st private property, a MM unit (500+ sq ft) along River Valley abt 300 metres from Great World city from developer at around 1200psf.

I intend to rent out the unit when it’s ready around 2011. I have the impression based on past statistics that prices of condos in prime districts rise higher than others in a boom market. Providing that the trend continues, should I capitalize on this, sell and buy a bigger city fringe or OCR unit immediately in case the price goes higher? What is the psf potential of area around Great World City.

As my wife and I earn modest salaries and already past mid 30s, this could be our only shot at improving our financial wellbeing.

Any advice is much appreciated.

[gfoo]

how modest are your salaries? it can be rather subjective

if you bought that devt right opp boon tong kee mktd by huttons, then be very careful of being psychoed that the area is as prime as they say it is - it cannot be compared to the river valley stretch across the road

while it prob won't go to below what you paid for it, personally i would take profit and save your bullets for the next cycle.

if you can more than comfortably afford repayments wo batting an eyelid, keep it. you are far better off than thos paying 1600 for balestier

[Riverund]

how modest are your salaries? it can be rather subjective

if you bought that devt right opp boon tong kee mktd by huttons, then be very careful of being psychoed that the area is as prime as they say it is - it cannot be compared to the river valley stretch across the road

while it prob won't go to below what you paid for it, personally i would take profit and save your bullets for the next cycle.

if you can more than comfortably afford repayments wo batting an eyelid, keep it. you are far better off than thos paying 1600 for balestier

1,600 for balestier.... property owners at novena side would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Separately, my friend has been collecting rental on his property. In 2 yrs time, rather than pay down his loan, he intends to use his takings to invest in another property....

Wonder if this is wise... what would you/people do?

[Douk]

My opinion is, do not hold MM unit for long term. The MM concept is relatively new here and may lose its appeal after some years.

To be truthful, to invest further from this point, there is high risk involved. But in order not to miss the boat when property price shoot thru the roof.. I think you already know what to do. Sell MM, Get a city fringe comfortable size condo ( preferably below 1k psf which is close to government future development plan) To preserve cash buffer for emergency and investment on next downturn, lock in profit for your hdb keep the cash and Cpf. Just my opinion.

Hi,

My situation is quite similar in certain ways and I hope to get experts’ advice from this forum.

I am currently staying in Sengkang 5 rm (9 years old), and within 300 metres from the MRT.

In March last year, my wife and I bought our 1st private property, a MM unit (500+ sq ft) along River Valley abt 300 metres from Great World city from developer at around 1200psf.

I intend to rent out the unit when it’s ready around 2011. I have the impression based on past statistics that prices of condos in prime districts rise higher than others in a boom market. Providing that the trend continues, should I capitalize on this, sell and buy a bigger city fringe or OCR unit immediately in case the price goes higher? What is the psf potential of area around Great World City.

As my wife and I earn modest salaries and already past mid 30s, this could be our only shot at improving our financial wellbeing.

Any advice is much appreciated.

[RVestor]

Thanks gfoo and Douk for the great advice.

If the price of my condo shoots up, I am also thinking of selling both my condo and HDB and immediately get a 2000sq ft FH terrace under $1.5mil.

Hopefully my loan will be not more than S$700k. My backup plan is for my family to move back to stay with my in-laws as they have extra rooms for us. And we can rent out the terrace to collect rent.

Are there any disadvantages in owning a FH cluster terrace?

[Blue]

Hi, I hv been looking for FH cluster terrace oso (big space, lower psf), but not many below $1.5M or below 3000 sq ft. You can find some in D19 but location wise is bad and at the current psf, I personally feel is not worth taking the risk. Unless u buy to stay for good till you RIP or pass on to your next generation, otherwise you will hv difficulty selling it for a profit later after a couple years of stay. You can consider lucky if you can sell at breakeven price i.e. original purchase price + loan interest you have serviced over the years.

[proud owner]

Thanks gfoo and Douk for the great advice.

If the price of my condo shoots up, I am also thinking of selling both my condo and HDB and immediately get a 2000sq ft FH terrace under $1.5mil.

Hopefully my loan will be not more than S$700k. My backup plan is for my family to move back to stay with my in-laws as they have extra rooms for us. And we can rent out the terrace to collect rent.

Are there any disadvantages in owning a FH cluster terrace?

never felt good about clustered terraces .. too close to front and back row.. even closer than inter terrace .. imagine no main door ..usually go in frombasement car park .. and always 4-5 storey to make up 3600 sqft ..thats 700-800 sqft per floor ..TINY and cramp ..
by the time you climb from basement to top floor ..legs CRAMP

its meant for people who wants landed BUT are not allowed to buy landed (like foreigners, subject to approval) ..

anyway if you really like .. 1.5m can get lah ...

[Blue]

Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!

Hi, I've been through your dilemma and was a former Punggol resident too => meaning I sold my HDB flat already, and it was just last year end. Mine was the same situation as yours: Bought a pte property while my HDB flat was away from the MRT but right next to LRT. Have decided to sell it instead of keeping it for rental yields in the end even though I can comfortably afford to hold both units.

Have read the advices from various experts here but there is no solid conclusion => To each its own.

Perhaps the following qns may help you to decide better:

1) Do you think rental at $2K for HDB will hold or rise forever? Just a couple of years ago, my frd could only rent out his entire 5 rm HDB at Bedok Reservoir Rd for barely $1.1K when he moved to work overseas. Obviously, rental rate depends on the economic state as well as demand vs supply. With the new supply of HDB flats + private property in the upcoming 2 to 3 yrs, where do you think rental will head? My prediction is south.

2) Are both your wife and your jobs stable? I don't think anyone can guarantee that, not unless you are highly specialised or working in a niche sector. With the influx of foreign talents at similar or lower cost than yours, would employer seek to cut cost or pay the same salary but get better talent? You will be surprised that many ang mohs in Singapore nowadays are getting same or even lower salary than the locals, and many dun even have expat terms, i.e company sponsored housing.

3) I also agree with some folks here saying that HDB price has a capping or probably at its peak now. So in a couple of years when you want to stop renting out your flat and getting ready to sell...Do you think it can fetch back the same valuation as at now given the new supply of flats near to the MRT while yours is relatively far away and 10 yrs old? Also, you may want to compare Punggol and Pasir Ris prices. I think Pasir Ris prices have more room for growth given the revamp of Downtown East.

4) I think everyone here expects that interest rate will rise. And this greatly affects the property market. So if it comes sooner than expected, you need to service both HDB and your condo loan while having difficulty finding tenants to rent your HDB or your condo...how long can your finances last? And worst still, what if you become jobless all of a sudden?

Therefore, I always believe in being prudent and cash is the king of buffer for stormy days. So i've decided to sell my Punggol flat, keep the cash and CPF, and wait for the next downturn to enter and buy a bigger pte property or do a lumpsum repayment of the pte property if I'm sure I'll be staying there for good.

At the end of the day, to each its own.

[samsara]

My opinion is, do not hold MM unit for long term. The MM concept is relatively new here and may lose its appeal after some years.

To be truthful, to invest further from this point, there is high risk involved. But in order not to miss the boat when property price shoot thru the roof.. I think you already know what to do. Sell MM, Get a city fringe comfortable size condo ( preferably below 1k psf which is close to government future development plan) To preserve cash buffer for emergency and investment on next downturn, lock in profit for your hdb keep the cash and Cpf. Just my opinion.

The miniaturisation has already begun and is unlikely to stop. There are many push factors for this. One is the increasing gap between property prices and man-on-the-street salaries. Without miniaturisation, affordability is an issue. When this process is not only happening to private properties but public housing as well (remember the 1000+sf 4-room HDB flats of yesteryear), you will see that the government is riding on the trend which the private property market is spearheading. In essence, the private property market is helping to "educate" the public that it is all right (or even "hip") to stay in MM units.

We have seen this happening in other highly urbanised countries (cities) such as Hong Kong and Japan. The masses have been well-trained to accept the minimal amount of living space made available to them. Do they protest when the only housing affordable to them is a 100+sf apartment? It has become a norm over time and the masses generally do not protest against norms. The government has the delicate job of moderating the rate at which a trend become a norm. Too fast and people will revolt, too slow and the benefits cannot be derived quickly to accommodate socio-economic changes and pressures created by global deltas.

[jitkiat]

Another reason for MM units is because of downsizing of family size & demand for privacy. Demand for 1+1, 2br condo units are from an increasing number of people who are:

1. Young couples with no kids or 1 kid
2. Singles

Above groups are typically higher educated so they assign more value to privacy & facilities, almost all 3/4-room HDB flats built in 1977-1997 in mature estates were corridor units without privacy ... when buying MM condo unit you get smaller home but with privacy & facilities ... and with clever renovation ... it is really not that bad compared to Hong Kong or Tokyo.

[samsara]

Another reason for MM units is because of downsizing of family size & demand for privacy. Demand for 1+1, 2br condo units are from an increasing number of people who are:

1. Young couples with no kids or 1 kid
2. Singles

Above groups are typically higher educated so they assign more value to privacy & facilities, almost all 3/4-room HDB flats built in 1977-1997 in mature estates were corridor units without privacy ... when buying MM condo unit you get smaller home but with privacy & facilities ... and with clever renovation ... it is really not that bad compared to Hong Kong or Tokyo.

Indeed. Not giving birth? No worries, we'll just import new Singaporeans. Notice that the drive for Singaporeans to procreate has somehow lost much visibility in the media? Nothing beats the instant Singaporeans formulae mix.

[proud owner]

Another reason for MM units is because of downsizing of family size & demand for privacy. Demand for 1+1, 2br condo units are from an increasing number of people who are:

1. Young couples with no kids or 1 kid
2. Singles

Above groups are typically higher educated so they assign more value to privacy & facilities, almost all 3/4-room HDB flats built in 1977-1997 in mature estates were corridor units without privacy ... when buying MM condo unit you get smaller home but with privacy & facilities ... and with clever renovation ... it is really not that bad compared to Hong Kong or Tokyo.

the day will come ..when these highly educated will have children and need bigger space ..

so the more people buy MM units... the more I should buy bigger units.. as these will become a rarity ..

[samsara]

the day will come ..when these highly educated will have children and need bigger space ..

so the more people buy MM units... the more I should buy bigger units.. as these will become a rarity ..

Societal values are changing radically in the last couple of decades. The prevalence of homo***uality and the increasing self-centredness of people have led to more and more highly-educated couples who put off or even avoid procreation. The emphasis today is on enjoyment and the sensual pleasures. It is not longer on moral values, filial piety and community contributions.

This is one of the key reasons developers have had the opportunity to even conjure the MM unit model. They realise it is all about self today. Most youngsters do not like living in a multi-generational environment because of the drive towards independence and freedom. The value system from the west has permeated the social fabric in many young societies (ours included) through education (overseas studies) and the media (movies, advertisements, etc).

The mainstay of traditional eastern (usually confucian) value systems is slowly being broken down as schools start to focus on academia and throw out ethics and morality lessons to free up more time for math and science. Parents tell their children to be number one in everything they do, even at the expense of others. I have seen a mother lambast her primary school daughter for being stupid in giving way to other passengers while boarding the bus.

[tayv]

Hmmm ... I notice that "tayv" registered his username 8 months ago in May 2009, and had not made a single post until today.

I imagine for 8 months he had been watching silently ... until finally cannot tahan ... outburst!!!



I hope I'm not the one who triggered him.

But seriously I don't think anyone here is boasting, because boasting will hurt oneself more than anyone else.

Can you imagine there is a GCBSingapore.com forum, and I go there and boast that I have a 20,000 sf bungalow at Cluny Hill (even though in real life I don't).

And then I bluff and post "Ya! Today I just changed the pumping system for my swimming pool it cost me $30,000."

What's the purpose of that?

After I log off my computer, I'll see that my real garden doesn't even have a swimming pool. Isn't that more hurting to the soul?

Or imagine maybe Reporter in real life is just a McDonald's waiter and did not buy a District 9 property in Nov 2009 like he claimed. Actually he just bought a Mezzo D9 bicycle.



I find it even harder to believe that he will spend everyday here talking about D9 properties, if what he bought was a D9 bicycle.

Or below is gfoo's so-called The Sail.



Or Property_Owner's 40+ properties are Lego toys.



If that's the case, then condosingapore.com should change its name to woodbridgesingapore.com.

Sorry guys for disturbing your thread again. I somehow like the comments by Bro jlrx. Yup, he's right. I am just a passive forumer who has just made my first post after so many months

I still think that chances that someone with 6-million cash on hand chit-chatting on the forum and not conserving energy thinking how to make the next 6 million is very low. Maybe some of the people have this "feel-good" feeling after boasting on the forum which they may not have or have in a much much smaller scale in the actual life.

However, I do appreciate the constructive and useful comments made by some of the bros here.

Thanks everybody. let's move on to make this forum a "no bullshitting' discussion.

Cheers.

[gfoo]

Hehe.. FH landed is for own stay.. and that one will take forever with my parents being those super particular type... my budget only max $3mil for own stay ..and those $3mil location and land is not particular attractive.. seems like $4-5mil is the sweet spot for nice location and nice house...

Marina Bay/Sentosa is for investment.. different... . .so can buy anything in $2mil to $3mil range also..

and also.. my wishy washy is cause this is my first time buying residential properties...(staying in HDB with fantastic view to my parents and amenities at my doorstep) and it is a big leap from buying shares..

tayv you're referring to this? maybe he just touch TOTO - you'll nebber know ...

[focus]

Sorry guys for disturbing your thread again. I somehow like the comments by Bro jlrx. Yup, he's right. I am just a passive forumer who has just made my first post after so many months

I still think that chances that someone with 6-million cash on hand chit-chatting on the forum and not conserving energy thinking how to make the next 6 million is very low. Maybe some of the people have this "feel-good" feeling after boasting on the forum which they may not have or have in a much much smaller scale in the actual life.

However, I do appreciate the constructive and useful comments made by some of the bros here.

Thanks everybody. let's move on to make this forum a "no bullshitting' discussion.

Cheers.

You are right.. .. I have more than $6mil in paper money (Monopoly one)
and property_owner has 40+ lego bricks apartments (as suggested by jlrx)..

Disbelieve is good.. Skepticism is good Forming our own opinion and making a judgement call is good for our investment journey too

[jlrx]

I still think that chances that someone with 6-million cash on hand chit-chatting on the forum and not conserving energy thinking how to make the next 6 million is very low.

You need to dig more posts to know a bit more about focus' profile.

focus is a retiree who used to pay tax at the top income tax bracket. There are 30,000 people in Singapore in this tax bracket, and it's not surprising that a person with several decades of work at the top income tax bracket has $6 million. In fact he should have more (the $6 million is for property investments only).

Uh ok what.. you earn more.. you get taxed at highest bracket is alright mah.. I used to pay taxes at the highest bracket but have since stopped paying because my income is now derived solely from dividends/interests which are taxed at source.. (which taxed indirectly but doesn't bother me.. it's a happy problem to be taxed at the highest bracket! )

The only thing I find puzzling is why he stays in HDB, and now then he starts hunting for private properties.

Maybe he doesn't believe in Propertism. Maybe he believes in Equitism and Bondism?

Actually "chit-chatting" here is very addictive, although I must admit it really "wastes" my time. I could have done a lot more productive work or "conserve energy to make the next 6 million" . But somehow it's very addictive.

This is the only forum where I find the people here really "chit-chattable". Unlike the other forums which I occasionally peek at, such as salary.sg, where the people there ask about whether a networth of $30,000 is considered high ... and the Straits Times complainers' forum where the slogan is "Down with the Government!!!"

[Reporter]

You are right.. .. I have more than $6mil in paper money (Monopoly one)
and property_owner has 40+ lego bricks apartments (as suggested by jlrx)..

Disbelieve is good.. Skepticism is good Forming our own opinion and making a judgement call is good for our investment journey too

I got a feeling we are from the same school.
Are you from Vwxyz123 School or Vwxyz123 Junior College?
If you happen to join the alumni association, maybe I can meet you?

(just kiddin' lah )

[focus]

I got a feeling we are from the same school.
Are you from Vwxyz123 School or Vwxyz123 Junior College?
If you happen to join the alumni association, maybe I can meet you?

(just kiddin' lah )

Victoria School Class of 1990 (graduating). You?
Alumni? Is there one?..haha.. anyway, I dont think anyone remembers me.. and I don't really remember anyone too.