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Thread: HDB figures put perceptions in perspective

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    Default HDB figures put perceptions in perspective

    http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/...53672,00.html?

    Published October 8, 2009

    HDB figures put perceptions in perspective

    High number of BTO applications does not equate to urgent housing need


    (SINGAPORE) Slightly more than half of first-timer applicants invited to book a flat under HDB's Built-To-Order system between May 2008 and June 2009 did not book a flat, although this rejection rate is lower than before HDB refined its BTO application process in May last year.

    That fine tuning saw HDB removing first-timer priority for those who had turned down two chances to select a flat.

    Ninety per cent of flats in each BTO project are set aside for those who have first-timer priority.

    HDB issued figures yesterday to debunk the perception that a high number of applications for BTO projects equates to urgent housing need, given the relatively still high rates of rejections by first-time applicants.

    The average rejection rates furnished by HDB yesterday refer to BTO flats in non-mature estates, where the vast majority of such flats are located, and exclude studio apartments. HDB's figures yesterday showed that between March 2007 and March 2008, before the application process was refined, 9,088 or 67 per cent of the 13,605 first-timer applicants invited to make their selection did not book a flat. Between May 2008 and June 2009, the rejection rate had fallen to 52 per cent or 6,747 of the 13,080 first-timer applicants invited.

    The rejection rate for first-half 2009 has declined to 45 per cent.

    Reasons cited by applicants who did not book a flat include that their preferred units had already been taken up, they are reconsidering other housing options and the completion dates for the BTO projects are too long.

    HDB also sought to debunk the perception that BTO applicants often made numerous unsuccessful attempts, pointing out that there is an 80 per cent chance of success for first-timer applicants to be invited to select a BTO flat. And the success rate of first-timer applicants being invited for flat selection within two tries is 96 per cent.

    The BTO system remains the major source of supply of new HDB flats. HDB starts building flats in a BTO project only after it achieves a certain level of demand. Feedback from some potential buyers is that the three to four years it takes for the new flats to be built under BTO is too long. HDB officials urged young couples setting up home to plan ahead for their new flat purchases and apply for BTO flats under the existing fiance-fiancee scheme before they even get married.

    Meanwhile, there has been strong demand for the 2,132 flats, which are either completed or nearing completion, that were launched on Oct 1 under the new Sales of Balance Flats scheme. As at 5 pm yesterday, 13,741 applications had been received. Applications close on Oct 14.

    HDB is also ramping up the supply of BTO flats to be launched for the whole of this year, from 8,000 units planned previously to 9,000 units. With close to 4,000 BTO units launched in the first nine months of 2009, another 5,000 units in eight projects will be launched for application in Q4 this year. This month, HDB will release a project each in Sengkang and Jurong West, followed by two projects in Punggol next month, and four in December - including two in Dawson and one each in Bukit Panjang and Sembawang.

    National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan, who spoke to reporters yesterday after visiting HDB sales counters, reiterated that the supply of new flats under the BTO programme is more than adequate.

    He urged potential buyers including newly married couples to look for workable solutions and to weigh the trade-offs if they can't find a flat in a mature estate where their parents live.

    He also said HDB takes into account additional demand for resale HDB flats from the influx of permanent residents when it builds new flats as these units will eventually filter into the resale market.

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    http://www.straitstimes.com/Prime%2B...ry_439430.html

    October 8, 2009 Thursday

    Hard to get that first flat? Not so

    Mah sets records straight on claims by couples

    By Jessica Cheam


    NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan has refuted claims by some first-time buyers that they could not get an HDB flat despite repeated applications.

    Mr Mah said yesterday that some of the assertions that have appeared in media reports recently were 'not entirely truthful'.

    Home seekers had claimed that they were unsuccessful despite making several applications, while one hopeful said he lodged 18 attempts but still did not secure a home.

    But Mr Mah said: 'What is actually happening, is not a matter of buyers getting a flat, it's a matter of them getting it and not selecting it for one reason or another.'

    HDB figures yesterday showed that eight in 10 first-timers could get a flat on their first try if they were not choosy; the success rate was 96 per cent for the second try.

    This is under the build-to-order (BTO) scheme, the HDB's main supply of new flats. Projects get built when a certain demand is reached and flats typically take three to four years to be built.

    'If you look at this, you'll know that the supply of new flats under the BTO programme is more than adequate, that is an assurance that I want to give to younger couples setting up homes for the first time,' said Mr Mah.

    'Don't worry, there are flats available for you, in different parts of Singapore at prices that are affordable. But we need to impress upon flat buyers that you may not get the dream flat of your choice the first time, but you have to make the decisions, and consider the trade-offs.'

    This could mean living in a more affordable home but further away from the city, he said.

    One of the media reports that prompted Mr Mah to speak out featured Mr Soh Say Kiat, who said he and his wife had applied 18 times since 2001 but did not get a flat.

    The HDB said yesterday that its records, which started from 2002, showed that the couple made 12 applications and were offered flats three times but did not take any.

    In another instance, Mr Jayce Ng and his wife told The Sunday Times that they applied at least eight times but were offered only one unit, which they turned down.

    The HDB said records showed the couple were offered a flat seven times but did not select any.

    Mr Ng, 30, however, pointed out that buyers who reject flats could have been offered leftovers with undesirable attributes.

    'You can't blame me for having high expectations and not wanting to live on the second floor when I'll be living there for the next 10 years - and this is a lifelong investment,' he told The Straits Times.

    The prospect of living on the second floor also proved a deal breaker for Mr Soh, who gave up the chance to book flats when he found out what level they were on.

    'I don't want to be forced to get a flat I don't want,' he said.

    The HDB data yesterday showed that even when applicants have the entire block of flats to choose from, three in 10 buyers still reject units.

    In February's launch of Champions Court in Woodlands, the rejection rate on the first day of selection was 24 per cent. The rate was 36 per cent for Fernvale Crest in Sengkang launched in June.

    The rejection rate for BTO projects by first-timers was as high as 67 per cent in 2007 - meaning almost seven in 10 applicants rejected any flats offered to them.

    This figure has since come down to about 52 per cent after the HDB introduced new rules in May last year to penalise non-serious buyers by removing their first-timer priorities.

    Mr Mah acknowledged yesterday that three to four years might be a long wait for some young couples but noted the best way to cut short the waiting time was to plan ahead.

    Couples can book a flat under HDB's Fiance/Fiancee Scheme, which lets them join the flat queue early - before they get married, he said.

    Mr Mah was speaking to the media after chatting to buyers at the sales counters at the HDB Hub in Toa Payoh.

    One home buyer the minister spoke to, Ms Lim Yu Fang, 22, signed up yesterday for a five-room flat at a Punggol BTO project which cost $331,000.

    'Although the wait is long, we still went ahead because it's more affordable compared to resale flats,' said Ms Lim.

    [email protected]


    HDB responds to couples' claims

    THE HDB has addressed some recent media reports and readers' letters concerning first-time home buyers complaining that they could not get a flat despite repeated attempts.


    CASE 1

    The Sunday Times reported on Sept 20 that Mr Jayce Ng and Madam Jacelyn Yong had applied at least eight times, five for build-to-order (BTO) projects and half-yearly sales.

    They claimed they were successful in only one application - for a five-room flat in Clementi two years ago and regretted not buying then.

    HDB's response:

    The couple submitted 15 applications, out of which only four were for BTO projects, where couples have to wait typically three to four years.

    Their other applications were for limited flats in mature estates. Records show they were offered a chance to select a flat seven times but did not do so.

    The couple's response:

    Mr Ng said he does not remember being offered as many as seven times.

    In some cases, he said he chose not to select a flat because the ones left over were on the second floor.


    CASE 2

    Home buyer Soh Say Kiat wrote to The Sunday Times Forum Page on Sept27 saying that he and his wife married in 2001, but had yet to hold their customary wedding.

    They said 'we have been unsuccessful in our numerous attempts - around 18 times since 2001 - to get an HDB flat' which they put down to 'rotten luck'.

    HDB's response:

    Records from 2002 showed the couple made 12 applications.

    Out of these, only two were for BTO projects, the rest were for popular flats in mature estates.

    The HDB says the couple was offered a chance to select flats three times but they did not take it up.

    It pointed out that Mr Soh was offered a BTO flat in Sengkang in 2003. If he had accepted, he would have got his flat in 2006.

    The couple's response:

    Mr Soh said he could not remember all three offers, but recalled that he gave up one offer because the flats were on the second floor.

    He admitted they were picky about location when they started applying for homes, but say they will try for BTO flats on offer now.


    CASE 3

    A home buyer sent an e-mail to the Prime Minister's Office on Sept 21 saying: 'I have been married since 2007, and to date, unable to secure a HDB flat after numerous balloting exercise at least 10 times over the years.

    'This has greatly affected first-timer applicants especially like myself where I could not live a normal life.'

    HDB's response:

    The couple applied eight times, not 10, and only one application was for a BTO flat, where there is a much higher chance of success.

    They had four chances to select a flat but did not do so, including an option to take up a BTO flat in 2005, which would have been completed last year.

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    I can understand why they complain. If they have taken up the flats (even 2nd floor) earlier, they would have bought an HDB flat at a much better timing during the lows (2003-2006) instead of watching anxiously for HDB prices to climb steeply now. But they only have themselves to blame for being too choosy (or greedy?) and miss the best timing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    I can understand why they complain. If they have taken up the flats (even 2nd floor) earlier, they would have bought an HDB flat at a much better timing during the lows (2003-2006) instead of watching anxiously for HDB prices to climb steeply now. But they only have themselves to blame for being too choosy (or greedy?) and miss the best timing.

    Locals are just too choosy. They always want high floor. The higher e better. Don't they know those who stay low floor are the real rich ones.

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    Who to blame except themselves? They want "ai pi ai qi" where to find? They are now even more anxious as HDB prices climb and then complain this complain that (all reasons that can contribute to higher HDB prices - from HDBs not providing enough flats to too many foreigners coming to Singapore etc). There are so many resale HDB flats out there, what do they mean by not sufficient? If want good location and good floor and good facing, choose resale flat lah! No point complaining lah, even if HDB start more BTO flats, it will take 3-4 years to complete and most likely the HDB prices will continue to climb for another 3-4 years. Either they take it now or leave it (and live with the consequences). On the other hand, if they have bought and then prices slump, they will complain again that HDB sell them over-priced HDB flats? (Well, we have seen that in newspapers too!).

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    I can understand why they complain. If they have taken up the flats (even 2nd floor) earlier, they would have bought an HDB flat at a much better timing during the lows (2003-2006) instead of watching anxiously for HDB prices to climb steeply now. But they only have themselves to blame for being too choosy (or greedy?) and miss the best timing.

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    Not really lah, but sort of agree highest floors are actually poor fengshui ("lou chai").

    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Locals are just too choosy. They always want high floor. The higher e better. Don't they know those who stay low floor are the real rich ones.

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    don't the rich prefer to stay in landed or gcb?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    don't the rich prefer to stay in landed or gcb?
    common singaporean misconception.

    many rich people do, but at the same time many rich people, when their children grow up and move out, tend to move to condos and rent or sell their landed/GCB. they feel lonely and oppressed by a big empty house.

    guess one's gotta be rich in the first place to understand that. don't think an HDB family of 7, squeezed into a tiny 4 room HDB flat can ever understand that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Anus

    many rich people do, but at the same time many rich people, when their children grow up and move out, tend to move to condos and rent or sell their landed/GCB. they feel lonely and oppressed by a big empty house.
    hey, why u know so much about me?

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    The complainers could not 'remember' how many times they were offered a change for selecting a flat yet they have audacity to tell the press they applied so many times (with inflated figure) without success !!!

    Now many complain about rising property prices for those who miss the boat(s). I believe there will be many who will complain when the property prices eventually come down & I believe it definately wil.

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    But there are rich people who can't stand staying in landed coz there is no view in singapore unlike other countries.. so if in Singapore, they prefer condos with scenic view

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    The funny part is that HDB dwellers or home seekers complaints about
    high prices for HDB and the government take actions in the private residential sector. Actually for HDB the more expensive the better for resale yield. My first property was a five room in a mature estate, then i paid > 300k , pple say i crazy but 5 years later 1 sold it > 600k and that's how i started "rolling" (just a bit lah)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogyi
    The funny part is that HDB dwellers or home seekers complaints about
    high prices for HDB and the government take actions in the private residential sector. Actually for HDB the more expensive the better for resale yield. My first property was a five room in a mature estate, then i paid > 300k , pple say i crazy but 5 years later 1 sold it > 600k and that's how i started "rolling" (just a bit lah)
    So you got 2 properties to start with rite?
    1 pte and 1 HDB.. that's why you can sell at 600k... and pocket the profit.

    For those who sell HDB at 600k now.. their replacement cost should be equal or higher than their selling price unless they choose to downgrade.

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    http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10...-flats-scheme/

    October 7, 2009 by admin
    Filed under Top News

    Leave a comment

    From our Correspondent
    In less than a week since the Sale of Balanced Flats is launched by HDB, 12,700 applications have been filed for only 2,132 available flats – about six times oversubscribed!
    Analysts say applications could hit 20,000 when the process closes next Wednesday, making 10 bids for every available flat.
    The scheme was announced hastily by National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan last week to quell public resentment and disgruntlement over rising prices of HDB flats.
    Previously, HDB has constantly maintained that HDB flats remain affordable to the masses and there is adequate supply of flats to meet the demand




    It is blatantly obvious from the above figures that the current supply of flats is insufficient to meet demands even at such high prices which smacks of poor planning and foresight on the part of the authorities.
    In an earlier report by ERA, it was revealed that 40 per cent of the buyers are permanent residents. Did HDB take into account the artificial increase in Singapore’s population in the last few years?
    The balanced flats are actually “leftover” flats from previous ballotting and flats repossessed by HDB for a variety of reasons such as default in mortage loans.
    As such, some of them are built more than 10 years ago and yet they command a price which is comparable to flats in the resale market.
    For example, the 29 available units of three-room flats cost between $244,000 and $ 262,000 and Queenstown between $302,000 and $308,00.
    These old flats probably cost much less than BTO flats to build years ago and HDB had already sold some of them in the first round to buyers.
    The ruling party has often trumpeted its achievements of enabling Singaporeans to own their homes.
    More than 85 per cent of the population live in public housing built by the government agency HDB. However, these are 99-year old leasehold flats whose sale and resale are subjected to a variety of conditions such as a minimum 5 year occupation period.
    Government leaders and HDB officials have insisted that the rising prices of flats helps to “create wealth” for Singaporeans.
    This prevailing misconception has been debunked by a research done by two NUS professors NUS professors Abeysinghe and Gu Jiaying showed clearly that “higher property prices, instead of creating a wealth effect, exert a significant and negative “price effect” on consumption expenditures leading to a fall in the average propensity to consume.” (read article here)
    As house prices go up, the increase in the value of housing assets is accompanied by a concurrent rise in the financial liabilities of households, in the form of higher downpayments for purchase of residential properties and burgeoning housing loans.
    The record high prices of both new and resale HDB flats have also brought to the key question whether they are sustainable in the long run and if a property bubble is in formation.
    As the prices of new flats are pegged to that of resale flats, their prices can be manipulated easily by limiting the supply of flats and ramping up the demand through immigration.
    Though there are calls from some quarters for HDB to release the full figures for the land and construction costs to justify its prices for the new flats, the statistics are unknown to this very day.
    A crude estimate made by Finance Consultant Mr Leong Sze Hian of the profits made by HDB has been circulating around cyberspace:
    “Since there will be 864 HDB flats, the average cost per flat, inclusive of communal amenities, site works and contingency works, is about $120,602 ($104.2 million divided by 864 flats).
    With the latest HDB new 4-room flats at Punggol (Punggol Residences BTO) selling at an average price of $293,000 (price range of $264,000 to $322,000 divided by 2), does it mean that the HDB stands to make a profit of about $172,398 per flat, or a profit margin of about 143 per cent?”
    [Source: Hardwarezone]
    As expected, HDB has refused to answer to these speculations about their “profit margin” so far. Their carefully crafted replies through the state media are almost always the same: “HDB flats are affordable because first-time flat buyers use 17 to 29 per cent of household income for their loans, below the international benchmark of 30 per cent.”
    This simplistic answer fails to address the key concern of Singaporeans: will they have enough savings to cater for their retirement needs after paying for their housing loans at the end of the 30-year tenure?

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    i like this reply from the above link ->

    '....PRs will eventually return to their countries after selling their flats with big profits , but our citizens got nowhere to go!!!'

    if this does happens at a substantial rate, then our future generations will be paying the price.

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    Err ... "... it was revealed that 40 per cent of the buyers are permanent residents ..."?
    Does the writer know that this "40% PRs" is for Resale flats - not New flats?

    Does the writer know that HDB is going to launch another 5,000 BTO flats over the next 3 months?

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    If the matured estate hdb is sold at a much lower value, hdb should termed those units TOTO hdb. Whoever that buy those units can reap immediate profit of more than 100k.

    writer conveniently forget that these matured estate units from hdb need not pay cov and is not available to PR.

    No doubts, it is still expensive, so is property at orchard area.

    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai
    http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10...-flats-scheme/

    October 7, 2009 by admin
    Filed under Top News

    Leave a comment

    From our Correspondent
    In less than a week since the Sale of Balanced Flats is launched by HDB, 12,700 applications have been filed for only 2,132 available flats – about six times oversubscribed!
    Analysts say applications could hit 20,000 when the process closes next Wednesday, making 10 bids for every available flat.
    The scheme was announced hastily by National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan last week to quell public resentment and disgruntlement over rising prices of HDB flats.
    Previously, HDB has constantly maintained that HDB flats remain affordable to the masses and there is adequate supply of flats to meet the demand




    It is blatantly obvious from the above figures that the current supply of flats is insufficient to meet demands even at such high prices which smacks of poor planning and foresight on the part of the authorities.
    In an earlier report by ERA, it was revealed that 40 per cent of the buyers are permanent residents. Did HDB take into account the artificial increase in Singapore’s population in the last few years?
    The balanced flats are actually “leftover” flats from previous ballotting and flats repossessed by HDB for a variety of reasons such as default in mortage loans.
    As such, some of them are built more than 10 years ago and yet they command a price which is comparable to flats in the resale market.
    For example, the 29 available units of three-room flats cost between $244,000 and $ 262,000 and Queenstown between $302,000 and $308,00.
    These old flats probably cost much less than BTO flats to build years ago and HDB had already sold some of them in the first round to buyers.
    The ruling party has often trumpeted its achievements of enabling Singaporeans to own their homes.
    More than 85 per cent of the population live in public housing built by the government agency HDB. However, these are 99-year old leasehold flats whose sale and resale are subjected to a variety of conditions such as a minimum 5 year occupation period.
    Government leaders and HDB officials have insisted that the rising prices of flats helps to “create wealth” for Singaporeans.
    This prevailing misconception has been debunked by a research done by two NUS professors NUS professors Abeysinghe and Gu Jiaying showed clearly that “higher property prices, instead of creating a wealth effect, exert a significant and negative “price effect” on consumption expenditures leading to a fall in the average propensity to consume.” (read article here)
    As house prices go up, the increase in the value of housing assets is accompanied by a concurrent rise in the financial liabilities of households, in the form of higher downpayments for purchase of residential properties and burgeoning housing loans.
    The record high prices of both new and resale HDB flats have also brought to the key question whether they are sustainable in the long run and if a property bubble is in formation.
    As the prices of new flats are pegged to that of resale flats, their prices can be manipulated easily by limiting the supply of flats and ramping up the demand through immigration.
    Though there are calls from some quarters for HDB to release the full figures for the land and construction costs to justify its prices for the new flats, the statistics are unknown to this very day.
    A crude estimate made by Finance Consultant Mr Leong Sze Hian of the profits made by HDB has been circulating around cyberspace:
    “Since there will be 864 HDB flats, the average cost per flat, inclusive of communal amenities, site works and contingency works, is about $120,602 ($104.2 million divided by 864 flats).
    With the latest HDB new 4-room flats at Punggol (Punggol Residences BTO) selling at an average price of $293,000 (price range of $264,000 to $322,000 divided by 2), does it mean that the HDB stands to make a profit of about $172,398 per flat, or a profit margin of about 143 per cent?”
    [Source: Hardwarezone]
    As expected, HDB has refused to answer to these speculations about their “profit margin” so far. Their carefully crafted replies through the state media are almost always the same: “HDB flats are affordable because first-time flat buyers use 17 to 29 per cent of household income for their loans, below the international benchmark of 30 per cent.”
    This simplistic answer fails to address the key concern of Singaporeans: will they have enough savings to cater for their retirement needs after paying for their housing loans at the end of the 30-year tenure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Douk
    If the matured estate hdb is sold at a much lower value, hdb should termed those units TOTO hdb. Whoever that buy those units can reap immediate profit of more than 100k.

    writer conveniently forget that these matured estate units from hdb need not pay cov and is not available to PR.

    No doubts, it is still expensive, so is property at orchard area.
    looking at these prices from HDB, DBSS etc cant fault the developers being so bullish on site at Serangoon Ave 3....we thought Silversea & Centro prices were insane but come next next year they may look normal. Now the next to watch will be EC prices, higher than DBSS lower than Private? Or will they reconfigure it to smaller sizes. Interesting

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    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai
    looking at these prices from HDB, DBSS etc cant fault the developers being so bullish on site at Serangoon Ave 3....we thought Silversea & Centro prices were insane but come next next year they may look normal. Now the next to watch will be EC prices, higher than DBSS lower than Private? Or will they reconfigure it to smaller sizes. Interesting
    right! it will be interesting to see how the EC is priced. any idea when is the next EC launching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai
    http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10...-flats-scheme/

    October 7, 2009 by admin
    Filed under Top News

    Leave a comment

    From our Correspondent

    The scheme was announced hastily by National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan last week to ...

    Previously, HDB has constantly maintained that ...

    It is blatantly obvious from the above figures that ...

    Did HDB take into account the artificial increase in Singapore’s population ...

    The ruling party has often trumpeted its achievements ...

    Government leaders and HDB officials have insisted ...

    This prevailing misconception has been debunked by a research done by two NUS professors NUS professors Abeysinghe and Gu Jiaying ...

    The record high prices of both new and resale HDB flats have also brought to the key question whether they are sustainable ...

    As expected, HDB has refused to answer ...

    This simplistic answer fails to address ...
    Why nowadays there are so many highly-intelligent and well-educated people wasting their time writing these things instead of doing more productive work like cutting and pasting beautiful photos of properties into this forum (like what I am doing ) or sourcing property-related news articles from all over and pasting them here (like what Reporter is doing) ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Why nowadays there are so many highly-intelligent and well-educated people wasting their time writing these things instead of doing more productive work like cutting and pasting beautiful photos of properties into this forum (like what I am doing ) or sourcing property-related news articles from all over and pasting them here (like what Reporter is doing) ?
    These well-educated intelligent ppl realise they missed out the lowest buy when they got no guts or money to purchase. So they resort to any method to voice to the government for aid or help. And to the extend of petition.
    Well they got to accept the fact sooner or later,or else just bite the bullet. And start off from small step,and to some sururban area. And stop being choosy. Etc 3A hdb cannot. NO face..??

    If i given a chance, i will take a 3A hdb anytime. With a pte

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Why nowadays there are so many highly-intelligent and well-educated people wasting their time writing these things instead of doing more productive work like cutting and pasting beautiful photos of properties into this forum (like what I am doing ) or sourcing property-related news articles from all over and pasting them here (like what Reporter is doing) ?
    These well-educated intelligent ppl realise they missed out the lowest buy when they got no guts or money to purchase. So they resort to any method to voice to the government for aid or help. And to the extend of petition.
    Well they got to accept the fact sooner or later,or else just bite the bullet. And start off from small step,and to some sururban area. And stop being choosy. Etc 3A hdb cannot. NO face..??

    If i given a chance, i will take a 3A hdb anytime.
    And a condo too

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    I applied for S2 unit for Duxton.. but quite remote chance now..

    10 application for every 10 unit ..
    after factoring the chinese race quota ..
    it becomes more than 20 applications for 1 unit ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71
    These well-educated intelligent ppl realise they missed out the lowest buy when they got no guts or money to purchase. So they resort to any method to voice to the government for aid or help. And to the extend of petition.
    Their tone seems more like a "demand" rather than a "petition".

    "Petition" should be more humble, using words like "Please", "May we", "Your Highness Mah Bow Tan", "the esteemed HDB" etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by focus
    I applied for S2 unit for Duxton.. but quite remote chance now..

    10 application for every 10 unit ..
    10 applications for every 10 units, then sure to get one unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Their tone seems more like a "demand" rather than a "petition".

    "Petition" should be more humble, using words like "Please", "May we", "Your Highness Mah Bow Tan", "the esteemed HDB" etc.



    10 applications for every 10 units, then sure to get one unit.
    Hahaha..Here goes.

    Dear Mr Mah, i do not ask as much as losers do. Kindly allow me to purchase my 2+1 hdb in my single name below the age of 35. I do not wan to wait and waste my years like the losers.Time and tide waits for no man. Any location will do. Part of my portfolio,rental gains,and not to lose out the hdb boat. Thank you. Kindly pm me,if u do received my msg.
    I hope im not demanding in any way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Douk
    right! it will be interesting to see how the EC is priced. any idea when is the next EC launching?
    Minister Mah assured more EC will be launched.

    How will they be priced? Will it be near the $637 psf for this 5-year-old EC?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Edge

    Prices of Nuovo EC cross $600psf on 'Centro-effect'
    The Edge
    Monday, 5 October 2009

    There’s been a spurt in sales at Nuovo in Ang Mo Kio recently, after the executive condominium (EC) crossed the five-year minimum-occupation period. Seven units changed hands from Sept 4 to 11, according to caveats lodged with URA Realis. In 2006 and 2008, there was only one transaction each, and two deals in 2007. Owners who sold recently are taking advantage of the “Centro-effect”, caused by the launch of giant property developer Far East Organization’s 329-unit Centro Residences in Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8. Units there have been sold at an average of $1,179 psf from its launch in August to Sept 11, according to figures from URA Realis. Between Sept 4 and 11, an 893 sq ft unit sold for $1.07 million, or $1,199 psf.

    Given that it’s a private condominium, Centro Residences doesn’t have the same restrictions that Nuovo, an EC, has. Under HDB rules, owners of ECs are only allowed to sell their units to Singapore citizens or permanent residents five years after the project receives Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP), which, for the 297-unit Nuovo, was in 2004. It’s only 10 years after TOP that units in ECs can be traded like any other private condominium in the resale market, with sales to foreigners allowed as well.

    However, the owners of Nuovo should be delighted at transaction prices in the range of $477 to $637 psf, as they are the highest achieved since the property was launched at end-2001. Prices at that time were hovering at $400 psf.

    For instance, a 1,119 sq ft unit on the ninth floor went for $710,000, or $634 psf. This is a gain of 52% for the original owner, who had purchased it from developer City Developments Ltd (CDL) for $467,276 in 2002. A larger unit on the 17th floor went for $1.2 million, or $477 psf. The 2,594 sq ft condominium was purchased for $812,746 in 2001.

    Other condominiums along Ang Mo Kio Avenue 9 have also benefited from the Centro effect, with a unit at Far Horizon Gardens, a condominium completed in the 1980s, changing hands in the resale market at $508 psf last month, the highest price psf achieved in the project this year.

    Sellers are also benefiting from the recovery in the residential sector, which saw a marked 15.9% jump in the 3Q residential price index — the largest q-o-q increase seen in the index since 1981, according to URA’s 3Q flash estimate last week. As a result of this big increase, the 3Q price index is now 5.1% below that in 4Q2008 even though it registered a total decline of 18.1% in the first two quarters of 2009. The residential price index is more or less at the levels seen in 2Q2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    Minister Mah assured more EC will be launched.

    How will they be priced? Will it be near the $637 psf for this 5-year-old EC?
    Mr Mah assured only more BTO and DBSS housing. But the prices will be benchmarked against the surrounded HDB.. So back too square one. High prices. It not like before HDB housing are so cheap,that ppl profits 100k after 5yrs stay. HDB smarter now, they priced higher for their own gains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlrx
    Why nowadays there are so many highly-intelligent and well-educated people wasting their time writing these things instead of doing more productive work like cutting and pasting beautiful photos of properties into this forum (like what I am doing ) or sourcing property-related news articles from all over and pasting them here (like what Reporter is doing) ?
    Err ... actually I'm quite highly-intelligent and well-educated ... unfortunately I'm not a good writer, speaker or debater ...
    ... OK OK ... I admit ... I'm lazy ...
    ... since it's easy to make a living through "sourcing and pasting" than "to write complain letters", I choose the former ...

    I ain't too ambitious. I just want to make a living like "jlrx".

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71
    Mr Mah assured only more BTO and DBSS housing. But the prices will be benchmarked against the surrounded HDB.. So back too square one. High prices. It not like before HDB housing are so cheap,that ppl profits 100k after 5yrs stay. HDB smarter now, they priced higher for their own gains.
    Minister did assured of more ECs.

    Quote Originally Posted by PropertyGuru

    More Executive Condos offered for buyers
    PropertyGuru
    Monday, 5 October 2009

    Despite growing plea for a review, the household income ceiling of $8,000 for benefits of public housing will remain.

    However, an offer of more executive condominiums (ECs) is being offered by the Government to deal with the needs of those middle-income buyers, whose monthly income ranges from $8,000 up to $10,000.

    The said move was announced yesterday by National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan.

    According to him, the government’s initiative of offering more ECs will let those buyers, whose monthly earning only ranges from $8,000 up to $10,000, to have an advantage of grants offered by the government and to buy their own home that suits their budget.

    Although ECs are constructed with facilities like those of a condominium, they still have restrictions on sales like those homes offered for public housing.

    In 1995, these ECs were introduced as a way of bridging the gap between private apartments and public housing. Those first-time buyers, who have an income of not more than $10,000, are able to apply for a grant of $30,000.

    Mister Mah said, “We are going to put up more executive condominiums for sale. We will probably be launching some fairly soon”.

    As for the present income ceiling of $8,000, he said that the said amount is “a very high income ceiling and we've reviewed it regularly”.
    “We need to maintain a certain level of subsidy, a certain cut-off (point)”, he added.

    Currently, those who have a monthly household earning of less than $8,000 can apply directly to HDB for a flat offered at a subsidised price. If they plan to purchase a flat from HDB, they can seek an application to have a housing grant.

    A concern was also noted by the minister that those individuals who earned more than $8,000 may unable to afford for a private housing; still, they are prevented from purchasing new flats from HDB.

    “So this is a concern we will address through the provision of more ECs”, Mr. Mah said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    Minister did assured of more ECs.
    Ya more ECs, but never assure of similar low prices like in 1980 or years ago etc..
    Just assured as affordability. Of coz is affordable,with 2incomes to feed the mortgage.

    Prices for new housing,are closely par to the resale units. Etc simei DBSS, to resale simei hdb.

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