Boom or bubble?

[teddybear]

Very simple, HDB prices sure drop lah! - Otherwise govt will have to do something because HDB meant for the masses and cannot go too high mah. How can HDB prices be so close to private properties as of now? It is no-brainer that sooner or later the gap will increase again, otherwise private property prices will shoot up even more.

if you analyze this new launches craze logically, in 2011 and 2012, where all the mass market condo TOP, there will be at least 10000 HDB upgraders trying to sell their HDB .... what happens if there isnt 10000 HDB buyers ..... are we building our own mini-subprime .... we will know then ......

[gwlip]

Hi is there a direct path to Nicoll MRT from costa rhu? as in there's a walkpath to cut across the water?

Not now but eventually ...
See Gardens by the Bay development plan..

[proud owner]

Property prices will go up forever - In 2005 I was house hunting and came across this Glendale Park unit (Hillview freehold) 1200sqft selling at $650k, owner bot for $1.2m during mid 90s. It may have gone up to $900k now but owner is still bleeding. Will it ever go to $1.2m again?
Many who bot during mid 90s boom (sounds familiar?) will probably never earn back their outlay. Think we are close to having another batch of suckers.

Foreigners will come, but will they all be able to afford $3k plus rentals or $800k - $1m condos. Most FTs are the frugal Chinese and Indians using Sg as stepping stone. You will have the odd ang moh CEO or top management but how many of these will come to boring Sg?

thats another reason why i try not to buy 99yr lease.. after 10 yrs still cannot reach the purchase price ..and time is not on your side as far as age of condo is concerned

[proud owner]

But is it possible, that even if it is kept empty and presumably the buyers have holding power eg 10yrs or more, that they will see a capital gain enough to cover the lack of rental? Of course dependent on the area as well, as some areas may not appreciate that much.

holding for 10 yrs, leaving it empty ? even an average income earner like me with 5 digit monthly income ..i find it stupid to do so ..let alone the recent buyers are HDB upgraders ..

i give up trying to help people see whats going on

pek chek .. vomit blood

[jlrx]

holding for 10 yrs, leaving it empty ? even an average income earner like me with 5 digit monthly income ..i find it stupid to do so ..let alone the recent buyers are HDB upgraders ..

i give up trying to help people see whats going on

pek chek .. vomit blood

Wei! Wei! Wei!

Your income is 5 digits then how can it be "average"?

Here is the statistics on household income:

Singapore Department of Statistics 2008

The average montly household income for the top 10 per cent earners rose to $20,240 from $18,310 in 2006.

Note this is "household income", which could include that of both working couples or even more than two working adults in the case of extended families.

Hence "5 digit monthly income" is definitely not average, but in the top 10% or even higher.

According to the DOS, the average monthly household income is only $6,830 or approximately $3,415 per person per month assuming an average of two working adults per household.

But then isn't this logical?

You are smarter than the average people, that's why you earn "5 digit monthly income" whereas they do not.

Hence you are able to see through the situation but they cannot.

The average people are stupid that's why they earn average income in the first place.

It's very logical.

[Allthepies]

the median income for residents is ~$2600 per month...

[EBD]

Wei! Wei! Wei!

Your income is 5 digits then how can it be "average"?

Here is the statistics on household income:




Note this is "household income", which could include that of both working couples or even more than two working adults in the case of extended families.

Hence "5 digit monthly income" is definitely not average, but in the top 10% or even higher.

According to the DOS, the average monthly household income is only $6,830 or approximately $3,415 per person per month assuming an average of two working adults per household.

But then isn't this logical?

You are smarter than the average people, that's why you earn "5 digit monthly income" whereas they do not.

Hence you are able to see through the situation but they cannot.

The average people are stupid that's why they earn average income in the first place.

It's very logical.

Who else is waiting to pounce on the outcome of all this froth in 2-3 years time?

[Property_Owner]

Had your ever heard these sentences?

1)
Agent: Better buy now, if not developer will increase price tomorrow.
Buyer(in mind) :wow, no choice, better buy then miss it, more ever, got discount now.

2)
Agent: Better buy now, if not tomorrow seller will change mind and up price!
Buyer(in mind): Knn, kns, i will wait. Let the seller wait See which sucker will buy this.

[jlrx]

Had your ever heard these sentences?

1)
Agent: Better buy now, if not developer will increase price tomorrow.
Buyer(in mind) :wow, no choice, better buy then miss it, more ever, got discount now.

2)
Agent: Better buy now, if not tomorrow seller will change mind and up price!
Buyer(in mind): Knn, kns, i will wait. Let the seller wait See which sucker will buy this.

That's why it's not wise to buy directly from developers. They have too much financial power relative to you.

When you want to get a good deal, you should be stronger than the other party, and it's much easier to squeeze a desperate seller than squeeze a developer.

I bought two properties around the same time, one from an individual seller, and the other brand new from a developer.

The individual seller was desperate because he needed money to send his son overseas, so I was able to get a good deal and the property has since appreciated 75%.

On the other hand, over the same period, the brand new property bought directly from the developer appreciated only 20%.

[Localite]

Given the int rate so low .5% for savings and 1.5% for loan and rental yield about 3% and economy pulling out of a recession and Casino coming out within a years' time.......all indications pointing to ppty prices bull run.

My personal view is that go for some nice prime ppty. With Casino and the likes, there will be a divide between rich and middle-income. You will see the rich people push up the prices in the next 3 years. In any case the mass mkt prices already crossed 1k psf for 99 leasehold. fringe prime areas at 1300 psf cannot stay at the current levels. Gap too small. Unless mass mkt drops which i think is unlikely because of population increase.

[Allthepies]

i was wondering since both STI and property prices are at ridiculously high level, and for someone believing property prices can still shoot up to the sky, why don't he invest in the stock market?

1) stock market only need to pay 1% commission (and better rate if u r big client) wheras much more for property: 3% stamp duty + 1-2% agent commission + 1-2% loan redemption + 1.5% interest + ... what else...

2) stock market is much more liquid than property. u know the market price and can easily find seller.

3) u already make real profit from stock market if you buy few weeks/months back but for property, the "rising" property prices are all seller selling price and not buyer buying price.

[gfoo]

i guess coz if u look at it another way, property gives you 20x leverage on 5% cash (not counting cpf). risk is spread by a 'repayment' plan over 35 years, hence so are losses as long as they dun fall too far from entry value.

thus 50k cash moves $1m. a 10% rise gives a 100% return on cash, a 20% rise gives a 300% return, etc

it's like playing futures contracts but instead of cob settlement, its over 35 years, and the margin requirement is a joke

[proud owner]

i guess coz if u look at it another way, property gives you 20x leverage on 5% cash (not counting cpf). risk is spread by a 'repayment' plan over 35 years, hence so are losses as long as they dun fall too far from entry value.

thus 50k cash moves $1m. a 10% rise gives a 100% return on cash, a 20% rise gives a 300% return, etc

it's like playing futures contracts but instead of cob settlement, its over 35 years, and the margin requirement is a joke

precisely its so easy that all jump in ...

when shit hits the fence ..all die ...

upgraders who buys with herd instinct will die ugliest

[august]

i may not buy at the lowest price, but i make sure i can pay for it in full if i need to ... like this will die ugly or not

[jc]

Had your ever heard these sentences?

1)
Agent: Better buy now, if not developer will increase price tomorrow.
Buyer(in mind) :wow, no choice, better buy then miss it, more ever, got discount now.

2)
Agent: Better buy now, if not tomorrow seller will change mind and up price!
Buyer(in mind): Knn, kns, i will wait. Let the seller wait See which sucker will buy this.

Haha... Buyer's mentality buy from developer won't go wrong... as "i am the 1st" n so must be buying the cheapest...

Another one:

Agent: Better buy now, if not tomorrow seller will change mind and up price!
Buyer: How much seller bought huh??? Wow...seller earn so much... (in mind) Let seller earn so much bei song DL lei... better buy neighbouring project from developer at 30% premium. 1st buyer buy from developer sure earn next time

[proud owner]

Haha... Buyer's mentality buy from developer won't go wrong... as "i am the 1st" n so must be buying the cheapest...

Another one:

Agent: Better buy now, if not tomorrow seller will change mind and up price!
Buyer: How much seller bought huh??? Wow...seller earn so much... (in mind) Let seller earn so much bei song DL lei... better buy neighbouring project from developer at 30% premium. 1st buyer buy from developer sure earn next time

my friend's wife ...in the mid 90's boom ..die die said MUST buy from developer sure make money ...

after 10 yrs .. only during 2007 that the developer COMPLETELY SOLD every unit ..while the neighbouring new projects in 2007/8 , 99 yrs LH ..all selling higher than their FH ...

so call 2 booms already 2001/2007-9 still below their purchase price ..

its actually a nice project ...

people are buying new launches ..not a bit keen to buy old, (unsold) project .. singapore mentality ..

long queue means good

[jlrx]

my friend's wife ...in the mid 90's boom ..die die said MUST buy from developer sure make money ...

after 10 yrs .. only during 2007 that the developer COMPLETELY SOLD every unit ..while the neighbouring new projects in 2007/8 , 99 yrs LH ..all selling higher than their FH ...

so call 2 booms already 2001/2007-9 still below their purchase price ..

its actually a nice project ...

people are buying new launches ..not a bit keen to buy old, (unsold) project .. singapore mentality ..

long queue means good

Actually ... there is a reason people buy new properties ...

Life is not all about money.

New condos smell nice and feel nice. It's a good feeling to step into it.

It's like a new car ... got new leather smell ... very nice, even though we all know it depreciates like crazy.

On the other hand, old properties require a lot of maintenance work which is both time consuming and stressful, not to mention dangerous.

I'd got one near miss when a ceiling board fell right next to me, then at another property I got my finger cut and bled like crazy till now the scar is still there ... another one I stepped onto the bath tub to inspect something and the bath tub bottom collapsed ...

However, I made much more money from these old properties than new ones.

So the moral of the story ... there's no free lunch in this world.

[cheerful]

my friend's wife ...in the mid 90's boom ..die die said MUST buy from developer sure make money ...

after 10 yrs .. only during 2007 that the developer COMPLETELY SOLD every unit ..while the neighbouring new projects in 2007/8 , 99 yrs LH ..all selling higher than their FH ...

so call 2 booms already 2001/2007-9 still below their purchase price ..

its actually a nice project ...

people are buying new launches ..not a bit keen to buy old, (unsold) project .. singapore mentality ..

long queue means good

Well, if can find good lobang in resale who don't want? But need to have some contacts to sniff out the fire sales rt? As for ur fren's wifey, maybe chased after the wrong timing lor .... but I believe u wld still prefer FH rt?

[jitkiat]

Actually ... there is a reason people buy new properties ...

Life is not all about money.

New condos smell nice and feel nice. It's a good feeling to step into it.

It's like a new car ... got new leather smell ... very nice, even though we all know it depreciates like crazy.

On the other hand, old properties require a lot of maintenance work which is both time consuming and stressful, not to mention dangerous.

I'd got one near miss when a ceiling board fell right next to me, then at another property I got my finger cut and bled like crazy till now the scar is still there ... another one I stepped onto the bath tub to inspect something and the bath tub bottom collapsed ...

However, I made much more money from these old properties than new ones.

So the moral of the story ... there's no free lunch in this world.

You are

[Property_Owner]

That's why it's not wise to buy directly from developers. They have too much financial power relative to you.

When you want to get a good deal, you should be stronger than the other party, and it's much easier to squeeze a desperate seller than squeeze a developer.

I bought two properties around the same time, one from an individual seller, and the other brand new from a developer.

The individual seller was desperate because he needed money to send his son overseas, so I was able to get a good deal and the property has since appreciated 75%.

On the other hand, over the same period, the brand new property bought directly from the developer appreciated only 20%.

Tat's why I been buying D9/10 pass few months back, helping those despo sellers

[jlrx]

Tat's why I been buying D9/10 pass few months back, helping those despo sellers

Haha ... you are the "evil one" ...

I always confuse you with the other poster here called "Proud Owner" ... he is very concerned about the plight of those poor buyers.

But you are different ... you whack them!

I'm also wondering whether it is a good time to invade D9/10 again, now that some of these properties have fallen from $5000+ psf to $2000+ psf.

Do you think The Marq on Paterson Hill can be had for $2000+ psf?

[teddybear]

Looks unlikely though unless whoever can afford a >$6m property also cannot hold

Do you think The Marq on Paterson Hill can be had for $2000+ psf?