Hundred Trees (Former Hong Leong Garden @West Coast Drive)

[Reporter]

too early to tell a bubble, in addition, 1 more year down the road (that's when buyers are paying the next installment), the parc would be mostly sold and prices should surpass hundred trees <-- if conditions are right

currently there are lots of sellers testing market like me (hired 4 agents who are spamming online ads on propertyguru and iproperty). however, I'm no speculator as I've paid up in full

if not, just wait till top then sell, should be time for another peak

speculators are those that buy to profit, rather than to meet a genuine need for housing. Thus, you are a speculator, not a owner-occupier.

As a speculator, you are not a smart one, paying such riduculour prices for hundred trees, which don't have a upside potential, but plenty of downside risk. just wait to lose at least 200k at the end.

"pmet":

"stalingrad" believes you are not smart and will lose $200k. It's time for you to prove that he is wrong again.
All the best!

[cher]

still saving up lor and havent got married ma, what to do? i'm no speculator, just a buyer with savings ( i suppose that counts as capital?), but nvm, if cannot afford then it's ok. i'll wait!

If I cannot afford I go for HDB, why stress?

[jwong71]

If I cannot afford I go for HDB, why stress?

Yup..why try to follow the herd and stress out oneself.. But im aso not married unable to apply for hdb at the moment, same like ppc88.

Hdb is a good kickstart

[jlrx]

1000psf or below wait long long? hmm......

check out this very recent excerpt from ST:

"Under the laws of economics, prices will not go up indefinitely . At one point or another, prices will have to come down because it is not possible for wages to catch up with it and when it comes crashing down. Singaporeans who have paid a hefty amount for the flats will now be plunged into financial distress, as banks continuously urge them to replenish their mortgage loans."

good luck to those speculators, even if they have to wait, with all the talk about overheating and bubble formation, they are the ones who have to sweat it out. in this case, all buyers with capital (like myself) should beware: be fearful when others are greedy. just wait and be patient. wait for those greedy idiots to sweat shit out of their pores.

The Straits Times 7 May, 1979, Hong Leong Garden "A masterpiece in ultimate living pleasure ... apartments from $79,000 upwards".



The Straits Times Nov 13, 1977 "In times like these, there's no better investment than a home of your own. The scarcity of land alone is a good reason to put your money in it. Not to mention the fast shrinking buying power of the dollar. Hong Leong Gardens offer you the perfect hedge against inflation ..."



Business Times - 8 Mar 2007

CDL buys Hong Leong Garden for $131.5m

Announcing its second land acquisition this week, City Developments, the listed property arm of Singapore’s Hong Leong Group, said yesterday it has bought Hong Leong Garden Condominium in the West Coast area through a $131.5 million collective sale.

The 25-year-old Hong Leong Garden Condominium site was originally developed in the 1980s by the Hong Leong Group. It currently houses 180 residential units in six blocks.


Hundred Trees @ Hong Leong Garden, 81 to 97 West Coast Drive
by City Developments (Hong Leong Group)

“The modern banking process manufactures currency out of nothing.”.
- Lord Josiah Stamp, Former Director of the Bank of England (21 June 1880 - 16 April 1941)

“At the end fiat money returns to its inner value—zero.”
- Voltaire (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

[Condorich]

A good buy is one which you can afford and suits your other requirements (whatever it is)

Rule 1 of buying a property is whether you can afford it.

Rule 2 of buying a property is whether you can hold it

Rule 3 of buying a property is whether you buy at the right time.

As I said sometime earlier, waiting is the best option if you don't need a roof soon. If not, just buy one which is reasonably priced...

[pmet]

"pmet":

"stalingrad" believes you are not smart and will lose $200k. It's time for you to prove that he is wrong again.
All the best!

lol, thanks! I couldn't be bother with him and his childish bashing behavior speaking to someone who isn't investor-smart is not going to yield any results. however, I think he's trying to talk hundred trees down so he could afford a unit here... yes like some others above, he's very interested in hundred trees

if hundred trees is going down, his carabella isn't going anywhere either

furthermore, I have all the holding power and will never sell for a single cent loss. don't need bank loan anyway

[Property_Owner]

still saving up lor and havent got married ma, what to do? i'm no speculator, just a buyer with savings ( i suppose that counts as capital?), but nvm, if cannot afford then it's ok. i'll wait!

This was from wolleydragon


15 yrs ago.. prices of chicken rice, wanton mee all cost abt $1.50..
10 yrs ago.. same products cost average $2.00
nowadays.. they cost between $2.50 to $3.50..

Of course we all hope to pay $1.50 for char kwey tiao.. But if everyone wants to sell at $2.50, what to do? Do you scold the hawker.. say he yaya kelapar??

You can wait quietly by the coconut tree and snigger at all that you'll buy only when it's $1.50.. Thing is.. life goes on.. people will still buy at $2.50.. and they will enjoy the hot plate of char kwey tiao.. and maybe finish up with a nice cool glass of chin chow..

And all this time, you're still by the coconut tree..

------------------------------------------------------------------------

sometimes I feel it's not about waiting, it's about affordability.

[Avatar]

sometimes I feel it's not about waiting, it's about affordability.

Well said...There are many people who will still buy for long stay. Property prices will fluctuate in short term but it is sure to go up in the long run (e.g. 20 yrs). I read in CNA forum on a buyer who bought cube8 and was shocked that in order to gain access to showroom, you even need to ballot! Below is what he wrote on why he bought cube8 in CNA forum.


"Yup. Book my unit during the VVIP preview on Friday 22 Jan morning. It was really crowded and the MC coordinating the balloting to gain access to the showroom mentioned that around 180 individuals registered for the preview in the morning while the public only get to view in the afternoon.

The price was indeed lower for the initial releases as I was lucky to be around the 40 odd individuals to be admitted. Only 6 units of stack #8 which I am interested in were released initially - 5-7 and 21-23 storeys. The 21th & 23rd floor unit (2 bedder @ 904 sq ft) caught my attention in that the price were set at $1,207,000 & $1,218,000 respectively which is just above my max budget of $1.2 million. However, both were snapped up before my turn to make the booking.

When it was near my turn to book after a long queue, CDL released another 5 units (9-13 storeys) of stack #8 and 12 &13 storeys were taken immediately by two gentlement in front of the queue. As a result, I took the 11th storey unit at $1,184,080 (or $1310 psf).

To my surprise, when I was back at the showroom in the evening to sign the option paper, I saw the 14th floor unit which I believed was released later in the afternoon sold for $1,224,000 (or near this amount) which costs more than the 21 and 23 storey unit released in the morning! Sound ridiculous right?

No regrets for me as I intend to buy the cube 8 condo for personal residence as my current EC at Woodlands (3-bedder @ 1292 sq ft) is too big for me and my wife as we have no kids. Furthermore, a few same size units in my estate had transacted at over $600K last year.

As to whether I bought this condo at the peak, my reaction is that since I am buying for residence and long-term investment, it does not really matter. How often can one buy low and then sell high."

[pinkamoon]

I agree. Everyone hopes to buy at a low and sell at a high. When you factor in inflation and rising living standards, yes, maybe the price may come down abit in the future, but it will never go back to the low low price years back. Just look at the prices of the flats in the resale market. They are crazy! If HDB resale flats are going for those prices, isn't it reasonable for the private condos to be priced at the current prices? I don't think there are anymore news bad enough to drive down the economy in the near future. Just look at how much the govt of the countries have done to salvage the situation. I really don't see why the prices should fall.

[iridrium]

I agree. Everyone hopes to buy at a low and sell at a high. When you factor in inflation and rising living standards, yes, maybe the price may come down abit in the future, but it will never go back to the low low price years back. Just look at the prices of the flats in the resale market. They are crazy! If HDB resale flats are going for those prices, isn't it reasonable for the private condos to be priced at the current prices? I don't think there are anymore news bad enough to drive down the economy in the near future. Just look at how much the govt of the countries have done to salvage the situation. I really don't see why the prices should fall.

No such thing as prices will continue to go up. Those who are 30 years old or more should know. When the financial crisis came in 1996, SARS in 2003 and the recently crash, these hits you at the speed of a bullet train.

For those who insist price will not come down, they are living in a dream. What goes up will come down, every smart investor will know this.

[Condorich]

1996 to 2003 = 7 yrs
2003 to 2009 = 6 yrs
2009 to ? = 5 years? 2014?

[Property_Owner]

Sometimes it's about holding power.

No such thing as prices will continue to go up. Those who are 30 years old or more should know. When the financial crisis came in 1996, SARS in 2003 and the recently crash, these hits you at the speed of a bullet train.

For those who insist price will not come down, they are living in a dream. What goes up will come down, every smart investor will know this.

Hi people. Maybe cause I own a numbers of units that makes me more of a bull for e time been since prices has been heading north. It's not easy to be holding multiple properties. Sometimes i wish life is just simple as a regular Joe.

You have to know a bit of the history of real estate market of singapore. We used to have a 10 years cycles. Then it was reduced to 7 years. Now it is 2 years. What will happen next of course we don't know. This cycle seen to be getting shorter.

My feel now is that I had just started to see a bit of light @ e end of the tunnel. Of course I hope things will turn out better in next few years.

Can u imagine how it feels after Lehman's. After prices heads south. during e worse days, agents calling me everyday giving me 1300psf for my Reflection, 1500psf for my MBR, 1700psf for Ardmore 2. Asking me how's my business. Trying to test if I'm bleeding. Telling nightmares are coming, winter is here. Sell or you see blood......

Yup, business was not so good for me at that time. I did ask myself, must I sell? Can I hold? Prices are going into a free fall. When is the bottom? If winter really here? Where is tat ''Light''? Life is like a roller coaster ride and it's bad for an old man with a weak heart.

Then I try to think again.... I start to come to senses that since prices are falling...why r there buyers willing to buy and take e risk. If I can hold, why sell? Since I dun sell, must I buy? I must start to behave as a buyer rather as a seller. Be positive, when u call an agent as a buyer...he/she will tells u: Mr buyer...now is the best time to buy...never time e bottom..how low can prices drop...fire sales don't come everyday...(Of course some of you will feel that these words from agents are for marketing only)

Of course there are other factors in my mind during that ''Winter'' duration. One wrong move and i'm heading to my grave, another unforgiving event will wipe out my assets.... ''PAIN=GAIN=RISK=PAIN''

Yup, I know that there r claims to an over-supply now, sucks rental market, USA not doing well. Stock dip these few days...China, Haiti, India...you can think of all e negatives and e lists goes on....

Maybe u can think so other factors...like, as usual Singapore is always one of e first to be out of every recession, we have a first class leaders(guess those from ST forum will start to bash me), strong financial position, strong banking support...think of these and e list goes on too.....

Whether now is the time to buy or sell I can't force you. After all it's your money and you signature on tat option.

Choose your decision carefully.

an agent once suan me...Mr P, you better think carefully. As an agent I can afford to miss e deal. There are still 400 plus unit in MBR for me to sell. but you as a buyer how many deals can you afford to miss? How many units can you buy in your life time. You decide.

That all for now.
Cheers.

[pmet]

No such thing as prices will continue to go up. Those who are 30 years old or more should know. When the financial crisis came in 1996, SARS in 2003 and the recently crash, these hits you at the speed of a bullet train.

For those who insist price will not come down, they are living in a dream. What goes up will come down, every smart investor will know this.

For those who are hoping that prices will come down soon, you have just missed the train in 2009, where were you when prices came down hard and fast? You are still dreaming about price dropping when the train has just past you?

Now prices are set to improve over the next few years before coming down again, if whatever goes up must come down is true. Let's not be too pessimistic for our economy to come down so soon as many more heads will roll if something bad (which brings down the property market) happens so soon. In the meanwhile, try to catch the second train.

[pmet]

Sometimes it's about holding power.

True, I just told my agents I can afford to hold as I'm fully paid up, they immediately sianzzz. Several other relatives of mine will hold theirs too.

[amk]

For those who are hoping that prices will come down soon, you have just missed the train in 2009, where were you when prices came down hard and fast?

they thought it's not enough and waited some more the appetite for risk taking is not there. they want to time the market *perfectly*.

U know personally I dun understand why ppl want to see pty price "crashing". Whoever wishing this didn't see the bigger picture. What good does pty market crash brings ? The whole economy goes with it (or rather, is the cause of it). When you have a pty market going up, most of the time it means the whole economy is doing well , that means your income, your stocks, your other investments, etc. are all doing well. Everyone is happy. Why would I want a situation where everything crashes ? I want steady, gradual appreciation of pty. I think that's what the government wants too.

The only thing that's not healthy is bubbles. As of now, there isn't much sign a bubble is forming, at least not in SG.

[pinkamoon]

Precisely, maybe those pple who hope that the market will fall would have to wait long long... ... if you want your wealth to increase and you expect pay increment... factoring in rising labour costs, the cost of raw materials and escalating land cost (Singapore is an island btw), how to expect prices to fall low low...

[pmet]

Hmm...

I have have two interested buyers offering 1.15m and 1.18m for my 2+1 pes. Not sure if I want to let go now...

[august]

Hmm...

I have have two interested buyers offering 1.15m and 1.18m for my 2+1 pes. Not sure if I want to let go now...

i will let go and get a better location

[stalingrad]

Hmm...

I have have two interested buyers offering 1.15m and 1.18m for my 2+1 pes. Not sure if I want to let go now...

I would let go and get a unit at monterey park or botannia, both are better than hundred trees and sell at more reasonable prices. haha, if you know my drift.

[calvenng]

No such thing as prices will continue to go up. Those who are 30 years old or more should know. When the financial crisis came in 1996, SARS in 2003 and the recently crash, these hits you at the speed of a bullet train.

For those who insist price will not come down, they are living in a dream. What goes up will come down, every smart investor will know this.

There are several factors that cause property price to shoot up 30-40% within 6 months from 2nd quarter 2009. 1)The biggest factor is the goverment's jobs credit payout to all employers in Spore. Over $5 billion, where do this monies goes? To employees? Fat hope. It went to the pocket of most emplyers and their key staff who must have use these free money to invest in properties. Thats why you heard of people snapping 4 units at Altex. 2) Low interest rates not only in Spore but throughout the World, so excess $ are use to invest in properties for rental yields. Any yield above 2% is better than putting money in the bank. Thats why you hear that over 25% of buyers are foreigners. 3) Sellers of Enbloc properties like Gilman Heights, Hong Leong Garden etc have to buy a hdb/condo/house quick. So suddenly there are so many new buyers.

So when will be the next property bubble? The question is not whether it will happen but when and from how high. I would say the most important factor will be interest rate. It can't go down anymore so when and how high would it shoot up? Other factor are foreign interest and their demand for Spore properties. How strong are the holding power of current buyers/investors? When would supply suddenly outstrip demand ?
Our government know the repercussion and risk when demand for property suddenly vanish. When that happens even if you want to cut lost at way below valuation price you might not find any buyer. So if price surge by another 7-10% I expect they would introduce more cooling measures. They want to send a message to buyers, be patient, don't buy too high, it is too expensive now.

[jlrx]

For those who insist price will not come down, they are living in a dream. What goes up will come down, every smart investor will know this.

Then this dream must have lasted 37 years.

I thought it was already settled in Straits Time's 1973 article below that the statement "What goes up must come down" is untrue?

"Contrary to the popular theory of "what goes up must come down" - as it did in share prices - prices of houses and land have spiralled unabated."

You can see what the author meant in the classifieds below a 32,000 sq ft Queen Astrid Park bungalow had "spiralled" to a price of $1,000,000 !

And just refused to come down!!!

If "every SMART INVESTOR" knows that it's time to sell Queen Astrid Park when it reached $1,000,000, then one investor in this forum called Property_Owner must be EXTREMELY STUPID to have bought a Queen Astrid Park and his son is staying in it now!



Since the statement "What goes up must come down" had been proven to be untrue, then what constitutes a true statement?

PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.



“The modern banking process manufactures currency out of nothing.”.
- Lord Josiah Stamp, Former Director of the Bank of England (1937)

“At the end fiat money returns to its inner value—zero.”
- Voltaire (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

So when will be the next property bubble? The question is not whether it will happen but when and from how high. I would say the most important factor will be interest rate. It can't go down anymore so when and how high would it shoot up? Other factor are foreign interest and their demand for Spore properties. How strong are the holding power of current buyers/investors? When would supply suddenly outstrip demand ?
Our government know the repercussion and risk when demand for property suddenly vanish. When that happens even if you want to cut lost at way below valuation price you might not find any buyer. So if price surge by another 7-10% I expect they would introduce more cooling measures. They want to send a message to buyers, be patient, don't buy too high, it is too expensive now.

I've already said a hundred million times that, contrary to the rubbish published by all sorts of so-called "experts", interest rates have no effect on property prices.

The truth speaks for itself.




Please refer to this post:

http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...26&postcount=4

[calvenng]

Interest rate will be an important factor now as amost everyone has borrow huge. Even those with plenty of cash like myself also borrow to the maximum to take advantage of low interest rates . I know of many who has cash of over $2million and they buy properties worth $10 million by taking housing loan of $8 million.

[Condorich]

Interest rate will be an important factor now as amost everyone has borrow huge. Even those with plenty of cash like myself also borrow to the maximum to take advantage of low interest rates . I know of many who has cash of over $2million and they buy properties worth $10 million by taking housing loan of $8 million.

Good move. Just have to make sure that the money is not wasted or burnt by investing in wrong stocks. Easy to be caught naked when something bad happens.

[teddybear]

Property investment is just like any investment - it is always about leveraging and managing the risks and cashflow. Any company, including banks do that. There is nothing wrong with buying $10m property if after taking out a loan of $8m at such low interest rates they still have $2m cash on hand to invest in liquid assets (FDs, stocks, bonds etc).

Interest rate will be an important factor now as amost everyone has borrow huge. Even those with plenty of cash like myself also borrow to the maximum to take advantage of low interest rates . I know of many who has cash of over $2million and they buy properties worth $10 million by taking housing loan of $8 million.

[teddybear]

I believe "whatever goes up must come down". However, more importantly is to know when it will go up, by how much, & when it will come down & by much.
Say those who think "whatever goes up must come down" stays un-invested & sidelined now waiting for the "down" or crash to come. However, probably it will be 2014 before the prices peaked, and hence they will be sucking thumb and singing "whatever goes up must come down" for the next 4 years and getting green and jealous of those making money all over.
Unfortunately when the crash comes (as in late 2008), they will say down not enough, didn't fall to 2005 lows etc, wait wait wait. Then they will experience another case just like in 2009 May or after when they see prices start to go up & sing cannot be real & cannot last one lah because economy so bad blah blah blah. The rest is history.
These people forever will never catch the train & make much money. No risk no gain. (else how does businessmen make so much money? For taking ZERO risk?).

For those who are hoping that prices will come down soon, you have just missed the train in 2009, where were you when prices came down hard and fast? You are still dreaming about price dropping when the train has just past you?

Now prices are set to improve over the next few years before coming down again, if whatever goes up must come down is true. Let's not be too pessimistic for our economy to come down so soon as many more heads will roll if something bad (which brings down the property market) happens so soon. In the meanwhile, try to catch the second train.

[stalingrad]

Interest rate will be an important factor now as amost everyone has borrow huge. Even those with plenty of cash like myself also borrow to the maximum to take advantage of low interest rates . I know of many who has cash of over $2million and they buy properties worth $10 million by taking housing loan of $8 million.

I can understand people who buy a 1$ million property and get a loan of $800,000. but buying a property worth $10 million and get a loan of $8 million is just asking for trouble. Unless his annual salary exceeds 1 million, this kind of behavior is reckless, and border-line crazy.

[calvenng]

I can understand people who buy a 1$ million property and get a loan of $800,000. but buying a property worth $10 million and get a loan of $8 million is just asking for trouble. Unless his annual salary exceeds 1 million, this kind of behavior is reckless, and border-line crazy.

You are rite and I somewhat agreed with you. But these are the people who get rich quick and able to buy properties at over $2000 Psf in Sentosa, Marina Bay, Orchard etc. One of them bought 3 units in Sentosa Cove(2 The Coast,1 Oceanfront) in late 2006 for a total of $12 million(took loan close to S$10 mio). He just unload 2 of them for $22 million and the other one he is holding is worth $13 million now.
However these are also the people who get caught badly when there is a property bubble.

[jwong71]

You are rite and I somewhat agreed with you. But these are the people who get rich quick and able to buy properties at over $2000 Psf in Sentosa, Marina Bay, Orchard etc. One of them bought 3 units in Sentosa Cove(2 The Coast,1 Oceanfront) in late 2006 for a total of $12 million(took loan close to S$10 mio). He just unload 2 of them for $22 million and the other one he is holding is worth $13 million now.
However these are also the people who get caught badly when there is a property bubble.

high risks= high returns
low risks= low returns
Losers,missed boat= no risks,no returns

[stalingrad]

You are rite and I somewhat agreed with you. But these are the people who get rich quick and able to buy properties at over $2000 Psf in Sentosa, Marina Bay, Orchard etc. One of them bought 3 units in Sentosa Cove(2 The Coast,1 Oceanfront) in late 2006 for a total of $12 million(took loan close to S$10 mio). He just unload 2 of them for $22 million and the other one he is holding is worth $13 million now.
However these are also the people who get caught badly when there is a property bubble.

every bet has two outcomes, win or lose. for a high risk bet, the gain can be enormous and so can the loss. If you were born a gambler, and life is boring for you without constant excitement or stimulation, then you will either be very rick (if we win) or bankrupt (if you lose).

for normal people like me, life is pleasant enough without all the excitement associated with gambling, we make small bets for fun, but never very risky bets that may lead to personal destruction. We invest $1 million in this condo and another $1 million in another, but never such gigantic amounts that may lead to our kids landing in poverty.

the problem now is that government is now promoting high risk gambling. I am not referring to casinos at IRs. I am referring government printing money to save the economy and reverse the losses of those gamblers in the real estate market. US, Singapore, China, all doing the same thing. No wonder more and more people have become real estate speculators, all figuring that governments will save their butts if they bets turn sour.

[august]

Interest rate will be an important factor now as amost everyone has borrow huge. Even those with plenty of cash like myself also borrow to the maximum to take advantage of low interest rates . I know of many who has cash of over $2million and they buy properties worth $10 million by taking housing loan of $8 million.

hv cash 2m buy pty of 10m? thats means the 2m cash kena wiped out liao...
to me is too risky liao