No property bubble forming, say developers

[rattydrama]

If buy for rental, 2 bedroom will be a good bet. At least can open up to many different groups. Eg. Rich Single Professional, students, small family or wort come to worst for own stay.

Those who bought studio and not in CBD areas will be taking a big risk.

I visited one show flat recently, only 380psf so small until I feel that the walls are collapsing in front of me.

Very uncomfortable.

Seems like most buyers of Optima bought for rental income and investment reasons.

[Douk]

how do you tell ?

Seems like most buyers of Optima bought for rental income and investment reasons.

[jitkiat]

If buy for rental, 2 bedroom will be a good bet. At least can open up to many different groups. Eg. Rich Single Professional, students, small family or wort come to worst for own stay.

Those who bought studio and not in CBD areas will be taking a big risk.

I visited one show flat recently, only 380psf so small until I feel that the walls are collapsing in front of me.

Very uncomfortable.

Optima @ 900psf 2 bedroom, quantum 840k (with stamp duty). Assume 20% downpayment and borrow 80% for 30 years, how much rental you need per month to even service the bank loan assuming low interest per annum at 3% ?? We have not even factored in 10% gov property tax.

[tamp81]

It was on the news. A reporter was interviewing some ppl who bought units at optima and all of them said it would be for investment and renting out in future.

[tamp81]

For a 2BR to breakeven on the monthly instalment, the rent has to be $2850/month assuming 2% interest.

I guess it is anyone guess whether future rent wil fetch such a pricing with Casa Merah, Optima and Double Bay all in the market.

But certainly, any projects near to MRT should be easily rentable if asking is reasonable.

[Douk]

It was on the news. A reporter was interviewing some ppl who bought units at optima and all of them said it would be for investment and renting out in future.

ic. hmm.. probably too painful to move from a spacious 5rm or massionette into the 2bedroom.

[jitkiat]

For a 2BR to breakeven on the monthly instalment, the rent has to be $2850/month assuming 2% interest.

I guess it is anyone guess whether future rent wil fetch such a pricing with Casa Merah, Optima and Double Bay all in the market.

But certainly, any projects near to MRT should be easily rentable if asking is reasonable.

The current bank interest of 2% can only be guaranteed (if you take up fixed rate 3 years) for 3 years. After that, it is highly unlikely to get 2%. It will be more like above 3%. How about 10% property tax, how about renovation to be done to the unit, how about furniture and maintenance fee per month???

[Honesty]

The current bank interest of 2% can only be guaranteed (if you take up fixed rate 3 years) for 3 years. After that, it is highly unlikely to get 2%. It will be more like above 3%. How about 10% property tax, how about renovation to be done to the unit, how about furniture and maintenance fee per month???

No matter how much you help them to calculate for the risk they take and the danger of buying for rental at sure a high price, these people can't see and hear what you say.

They are now dumb and deaf...

They only know one thing....cheong ah....

[Property_Owner]

Those who bought studio and not in CBD areas will be taking a big risk.

What about those who bought Scott Square?

[proud owner]

Since a large percentage is HDB upgraders, you need to understand what is their main concern. I used to be a HDB upgrader many years back, so maybe I can comment a bit here. Below may not apply to all but should apply to a large percentage.

Typically, they have saved enough for the first 20% installment, this is easily 120k-200k depending on the size of the unit purchased. To buy a new condo that has TOP, you have a big commitment immediately. Monthly installment is easily 3 to 4k. To many people, it's a mix feeling of excitment, fear and pressure. To see your bank account going down by 100-200k after paying the first 20% does give you a chill somehow. Further to that, if you need to start paying the monthly installment immediately, it will put a lot of pressure on both couples. Things can turn sour if not managed properly.

But if you buy from a new lauch, the unit is only available after 2-3 yrs. This means that you can take a breather & relax for the next 2-3yrs. This is a good buffer period to starts saving again in preparation for monthly installment in 2-3yrs time. Usually you can save quite a healthy sum in this time span.

However, I do agree that the new launch price is on the high side. Hopefully, these buyers have done proper sum. Anyway, every individual has their own view of things happening in the market today. In the long run, price will be going up. But nobody can predict what's going to happen in the near future. I may be wrong and everyone is right. OR everyone is wrong and only the developer is right. The developers are the one who benefited in this interesting property market.

i used to be like that ..save and save and save by the time you have enough ..prices are higher ..

ITS NEVER ENOUGH

lucky for me , i had a few good years at work and recieved good bonuses which enabled me to buy 2 properties almost using cash ..

but for the general upgraders, its very scarey ..what they are doing now ..is simply postponing the fear and pressure to a later date ..

so to rebuild their savings, CPF, etc in 2 - 3 yrs, they would still have to save 2-3k a month ..

if they can do tat , why cant they pay 2-3k instalment every month now ?
as oppose to saving it ?

in my opinion thats the mistake that they are making ..

to postpone/delay the eventual payment, they end up paying a higher psf ..

[proud owner]

For a 2BR to breakeven on the monthly instalment, the rent has to be $2850/month assuming 2% interest.

I guess it is anyone guess whether future rent wil fetch such a pricing with Casa Merah, Optima and Double Bay all in the market.

But certainly, any projects near to MRT should be easily rentable if asking is reasonable.

its crazy that "IR will spur rental" now reaches the urban area .. resulting in 900-1100 psf pricing

for a 2 bedroom to breakeven ..rental has to be 2850 a mth ..

to spare 2.8k a mth on rental .. and have enuff for other expenses ..your take home has to be 5.5k and higher .. thats 7.5k before tax ..

please please go to Macau .. and talk to those working in the casinos ..

how many are 'high income' and how many are 'low income' ..

you will be very surprised ... that many cannot afford a studio rent .. most will share a room with another colleague/friends ..

if 3-4 share a unit of 2 bedroom .. how many units are needed to house the whole IR work force ?

1500 works ..assuming 300 higher salaried .. remaning 1200
1200/3 = 400 assuming 3 will share a 2 bedroom unit .. they only need 400 (low salaried) + 300 (high salaried) = 700 units ..

how many people bought during this run up ..hoping to rent to IR workers ?

how many projects launched and agents saying "IR will need alot of rental units" ?

and i have not considered the certainty of some work force being sporeans who dont need to rent at all ..

[rattydrama]

Optima @ 900psf 2 bedroom, quantum 840k (with stamp duty). Assume 20% downpayment and borrow 80% for 30 years, how much rental you need per month to even service the bank loan assuming low interest per annum at 3% ?? We have not even factored in 10% gov property tax.

Yes exactly, may not cover unless 1) buy for own stay and sell away HDB flat and dont mind paying a premium for private property 2) the rental suddenly surge.

Buying studio will be worst, - might need to fork out from own pocket to serve the loan and cannot stay cos so small! harder to off load too.

[Honesty]

its crazy that "IR will spur rental" now reaches the urban area .. resulting in 900-1100 psf pricing

for a 2 bedroom to breakeven ..rental has to be 2850 a mth ..

to spare 2.8k a mth on rental .. and have enuff for other expenses ..your take home has to be 5.5k and higher .. thats 7.5k before tax ..

please please go to Macau .. and talk to those working in the casinos ..

how many are 'high income' and how many are 'low income' ..

you will be very surprised ... that many cannot afford a studio rent .. most will share a room with another colleague/friends ..

if 3-4 share a unit of 2 bedroom .. how many units are needed to house the whole IR work force ?

1500 works ..assuming 300 higher salaried .. remaning 1200
1200/3 = 400 assuming 3 will share a 2 bedroom unit .. they only need 400 (low salaried) + 300 (high salaried) = 700 units ..

how many people bought during this run up ..hoping to rent to IR workers ?

how many projects launched and agents saying "IR will need alot of rental units" ?

and i have not considered the certainty of some work force being sporeans who dont need to rent at all ..

I really pity those buyers that paid so much now.

It is so danger that the govt have to alert the buyers to stop buying.

[Property_Owner]

I really pity those buyers that paid so much now.

It is so danger that the govt have to alert the buyers to stop buying.

I guess paying 2500psf foa a bay view now is still better then those in 07.

[wqmai]

Yes exactly, may not cover unless 1) buy for own stay and sell away HDB flat and dont mind paying a premium for private property 2) the rental suddenly surge.

Buying studio will be worst, - might need to fork out from own pocket to serve the loan and cannot stay cos so small! harder to off load too.

Anyway I am not vested. But why studio cannot stay? Last time when studio is 700 sq ft, people say cannot stay. When it become 600 sq ft, also say cannot say. When it become 500 sq ft, still cannot stay. When it become 400 sq ft, still cannot stay. Now it become 366 sq ft, also cannot stay. When it become like Hongkong or Japan size, 200 sq ft, then people will look back and see that it can stay.

[proud owner]

Anyway I am not vested. But why studio cannot stay? Last time when studio is 700 sq ft, people say cannot stay. When it become 600 sq ft, also say cannot say. When it become 500 sq ft, still cannot stay. When it become 400 sq ft, still cannot stay. Now it become 366 sq ft, also cannot stay. When it become like Hongkong or Japan size, 200 sq ft, then people will look back and see that it can stay.

so true

are we getting smaller in size ? Or
luxury takes on a new meaning ? small is good ? Or
our money getting smaller ?


it such a scenario i would go for BIG units ...they are becoming more and more rare ...

[gfoo]

Anyway I am not vested. But why studio cannot stay? Last time when studio is 700 sq ft, people say cannot stay. When it become 600 sq ft, also say cannot say. When it become 500 sq ft, still cannot stay. When it become 400 sq ft, still cannot stay. Now it become 366 sq ft, also cannot stay. When it become like Hongkong or Japan size, 200 sq ft, then people will look back and see that it can stay.

HK and Japan have very diff building environments to Singapore. Japan has high populations concentrated in the city centres but they cannot build up due to earthquake restrictions. In HK, only certain areas can build high rise, and inter-island connectivity is always an issue with main economic activity on hk island.

there is a lot of flat land in singapore and due to our stable topography, the sky's the limit.

small units in japan are more driven by necessity/physical constraints, and Singapore which is driven more by developers' creativity.

[xtink]

the agent probably said half the story. the calculations is correct, but narrowly focused. It is the hope for the bigger picture, i.e. the IR will bring in more tourists, make the economy grows, and in turn lure more investments into Spore. the setup of one single company/industry does not bring in the dough, it is the investments of many many big companies that does.

1500 works ..assuming 300 higher salaried .. remaning 1200
1200/3 = 400 assuming 3 will share a 2 bedroom unit .. they only need 400 (low salaried) + 300 (high salaried) = 700 units ..

how many people bought during this run up ..hoping to rent to IR workers ?

how many projects launched and agents saying "IR will need alot of rental units" ?

and i have not considered the certainty of some work force being sporeans who dont need to rent at all ..

[proud owner]

the agent probably said half the story. the calculations is correct, but narrowly focused. It is the hope for the bigger picture, i.e. the IR will bring in more tourists, make the economy grows, and in turn lure more investments into Spore. the setup of one single company/industry does not bring in the dough, it is the investments of many many big companies that does.

correct

but tourists wil not rent yo;ur apt ..

tourist will not buy your apt ..

so buying to rent to IR related is just not there

[xtink]

granted. what i meant was the follow-on influx of foreign investments would bring along with it more FT, and hence demand for rental. BUT one thing - the govt must do alot more to make Spore remains competitive and be pro-biz.

correct

but tourists wil not rent yo;ur apt ..

tourist will not buy your apt ..

so buying to rent to IR related is just not there

[gfoo]

correct

but tourists wil not rent yo;ur apt ..

tourist will not buy your apt ..

so buying to rent to IR related is just not there

As with las vegas, and macau, and morocco and every other locale with significant casino presence - it would only widen the rich-poor divide. The people that make the real money are the ones serving and surrounding the whales, and many are foreigners. All others are $1600pm croupiers etc, and I tell you we will sooner or later end up with Filipinos/Msians/China as croupiers and service staff, as with all other Singapore businesses today.

The only hope the likes of Centro etc actually renting out studios and mickey mouse units lie in the world's oldest profession. That industry will grow significantly - and they will be the only ones that might have the means to afford ridiculous rents (i know locals won't) - and make full use of studios. nowadays they are the same size as hotel 81 anyways

[proud owner]

As with las vegas, and macau, and morocco and every other locale with significant casino presence - it would only widen the rich-poor divide. The people that make the real money are the ones serving and surrounding the whales. All others are $1600pm croupiers etc, and I tell you we will sooner or later end up with Filipinos/Msians/China as croupiers and service staff, as with all other Singapore businesses today.

\


when i was in spore .. my part time maid stays in a apt behind Gleneagles ... 1600 sqft ... there are 16 of them living in there she pays 400 rent a mth

[gfoo]

\


when i was in spore .. my part time maid stays in a apt behind Gleneagles ... 1600 sqft ... there are 16 of them living in there she pays 400 rent a mth

Power, even a maid would rather pay for orchard - i reckon it's a 5 rmr at $6000p.m. A 500 sqft studio in Centro will need $2500 to cover loan and conservancy (zero yield). That's about 6 pax in a single studio unit to make it affordable for the likes of service staff. mana ada apa? 60sqft a person excl toilet, PES and kitchen sink. that's 8 tiles by 8 tiles. A single bed is 3 tiles by 6 tiles. Squat on floor at least 2 tiles by 2 tiles.

[proud owner]

Power, even a maid would rather pay for orchard - i reckon it's a 5 rmr at $6000p.m. A 500 sqft studio in Centro will need $2500 to cover loan and conservancy (zero yield). That's about 6 pax in a single studio unit to make it affordable for the likes of service staff. mana ada apa? 60sqft a person excl toilet, PES and kitchen sink. that's 8 tiles by 8 tiles. A single bed is 3 tiles by 6 tiles. Squat on floor at least 2 tiles by 2 tiles.

thats right .. only SAF personal can live in it ..excluding the webbing, full pack, helmet.. etc ..

cos only SAF personnel can Sleep standing up

[gfoo]

thats right .. only SAF personal can live in it ..excluding the webbing, full pack, helmet.. etc ..

cos only SAF personnel can Sleep standing up

not true, got one fambly stay oxley wan can also sleep hanging from ceiling - whole bunch of bloodsuckers.

[proud owner]

not true, got one fambly stay oxley wan can also sleep hanging from ceiling - whole bunch of bloodsuckers.

cannot compare lah ...those vampires have big wings ...sometimes they do lie down ... they fly SIA from london direct ..

[gfoo]

cannot compare lah ...those vampires have big wings ...sometimes they do lie down ... they fly SIA from london direct ..

lol...yeah, but i give up liao, too many super powers. One ugly laocharboh dark clouds come go into grave, sun come up rise from the dead. Another one sick but never die, children all white as ghost. another one old also never die, and will likely rise from the dead too. k k enough liao, sekali i have to pull toilet trick too and selamat hari ini in johor

[proud owner]

lol...yeah, but i give up liao, too many super powers. One ugly laocharboh dark clouds come go into grave, sun come up rise from the dead. Another one sick but never die, children all white as ghost. another one old also never die, and will likely rise from the dead too. k k enough liao, sekali i have to pull toilet trick too and selamat hari ini in johor

whatever happened to the Scotts 28 that they bought many years ago ..??

[wqmai78]

As with las vegas, and macau, and morocco and every other locale with significant casino presence - it would only widen the rich-poor divide. The people that make the real money are the ones serving and surrounding the whales, and many are foreigners. All others are $1600pm croupiers etc, and I tell you we will sooner or later end up with Filipinos/Msians/China as croupiers and service staff, as with all other Singapore businesses today.

The only hope the likes of Centro etc actually renting out studios and mickey mouse units lie in the world's oldest profession. That industry will grow significantly - and they will be the only ones that might have the means to afford ridiculous rents (i know locals won't) - and make full use of studios. nowadays they are the same size as hotel 81 anyways

Talking abt sizes. Just receive an sms on airstream at St Michael.
Studio (31 sqm), 1 rm(38 sqm), 1+1(47 sqm), 2 rm(58sqm), Avg - $1180psf.

My studio also bigger than their 1+1. So last time the same size apartment, we called studio, now change name to 1+1. Studio now refer to super small. Can live????

[gfoo]

Talking abt sizes. Just receive an sms on airstream at St Michael.
Studio (31 sqm), 1 rm(38 sqm), 1+1(47 sqm), 2 rm(58sqm), Avg - $1180psf.

My studio also bigger than their 1+1. So last time the same size apartment, we called studio, now change name to 1+1. Studio now refer to super small. Can live????

300sqft for studio? zhun bo? how to live? - hotel 81 size dey