Trevista (D12, 99 years leasehold, NTUC Choice Homes)

[gfoo]

i have to agree with yookosi. the IR will not cause property prices to spike just like that. The basic tenets of property valuation will have to hold true - things like Flyer F1 and IR are just short term fads, dun simply buy into the bullshit of developers. Location, locality, and amenities still count for more than simple fads.

[august]

Hold what statement? You think the IR opening can really prop-up the property market? Tell me how the opening of IR can give additional boost to the property price. TELL ME !!!

wah so angry ...

[gfoo]

wah so angry ...

maybe coz COE prices shoot up by 20% so dream car out of reach?

[august]

maybe coz COE prices shoot up by 20% so dream car out of reach?

bo pian buy 2nd hand lor .. no one will know

[gfoo]

bo pian buy 2nd hand lor .. no one will know

come to think of it, buy a doubledeck houseboat, park at One Deg 15, plus a 2nd hand cayman - all in still cheaper than a Centro 2 bedder

[xebay11]

Hold what statement? You think the IR opening can really prop-up the property market? Tell me how the opening of IR can give additional boost to the property price. TELL ME !!!

Just look at the F1. Last year most of the hotel was booked and tickets sold. What happen this year? Once the "freshness" wears out, the reality sets in. Just like your girlfriend and wife.

Let wait and see... Another 2 quarters and you will see the decline.

Why so angry? You missed the boat? I never said that IR would definitely cause property prices to spike for sure. But it is possible, if the IR is sucessful, SG would be a huge playground for tourists, like a Monacco of the Asia and properties along East Coast would become very desirable due to the closeness and seemingly extension of the IR region, yes, even it is a spike it may be a short one or maybe none at all.

You need not sound so bitter dude as it makes you sound like a loser who does not own any property and would hope for prices to decline.

[zimmer]

maybe coz COE prices shoot up by 20% so dream car out of reach?

Shoot up 20% only where will affect those buying dream cars like audi, beemer, benz etc. Let's not even talk abt the porche, ferrari owners. 50k COE like pocket change.

[zimmer]

Why so angry? You missed the boat? I never said that IR would definitely cause property prices to spike for sure. But it is possible, if the IR is sucessful, SG would be a huge playground for tourists, like a Monacco of the Asia and properties along East Coast would become very desirable due to the closeness and seemingly extension of the IR region, yes, even it is a spike it may be a short one or maybe none at all.

You need not sound so bitter dude as it makes you sound like a loser who does not own any property and would hope for prices to decline.

I have to agree with yokoosi though. Take Genting for example, do the numerous tourists go there to live and play? Ask the people who bought the housing projects at the foothill, have they seen appreciation?
Will see more tourists but don't know how that would translate to higher property prices.

[xebay11]

I have to agree with yokoosi though. Take Genting for example, do the numerous tourists go there to live and play? Ask the people who bought the housing projects at the foothill, have they seen appreciation?
Will see more tourists but don't know how that would translate to higher property prices.

Genting is different as Malaysia is big, Singapore is small so the whole country becomes like a region, so if Singapore can establish itself as a premier destination people would look for property here, no need to look at Monacco, just look closer, take the example of places like Phuket and Bali, everywhere you go there you see Real Estate cos selling resort homes and the prices are higher then the national average, even in Philipines it is the same, many islands have resort homes to cater to Japanese, Koreans and others, look at Hawaii etc, true not ALL properties would appreciate, but as starters, compare those properties near Harbourfront before and after IR official announcement, see the prices shoot up?

I believe the East Coast, prime and Orchard will hold some charm for the foreigners but you don't have to take my word for it but if you are well heeled and well travelled and observant you can see many examples of holiday destination homes but of course if you have never travelled further than Genting I don't know what to say.

[yokoosi]

Why so angry? You missed the boat? I never said that IR would definitely cause property prices to spike for sure. But it is possible, if the IR is sucessful, SG would be a huge playground for tourists, like a Monacco of the Asia and properties along East Coast would become very desirable due to the closeness and seemingly extension of the IR region, yes, even it is a spike it may be a short one or maybe none at all.

You need not sound so bitter dude as it makes you sound like a loser who does not own any property and would hope for prices to decline.

I missed the boat and is angry? Must be joking. If you have been around this forum for sometime, you would have read somewhere where i mentioned that i have fully paid properties, but of course you can say i am bull-shitting. PROPERTY OWNER in this forum even knew which property i let go recently. I am not against the rise of property prices but i felt that we must have it at a sustainable level. If the income are not rising as fast as the inflation couple with job losses....whatever HYPE you create will not last.

Don't have to look far. Just look at Dubai. Their model is an accelerated version of what we are trying to do now. CREATE PLAYGROUND for the RICH. You've been there? I was there during the BOOMING years and was so tempted to buy something there. With a stroke of luck, i am glad i did not go into in. Look at the property prices there now.

Just tread with care.

[andy]

I missed the boat and is angry? Must be joking. If you have been around this forum for sometime, you would have read somewhere where i mentioned that i have fully paid properties, but of course you can say i am bull-shitting. PROPERTY OWNER in this forum even knew which property i let go recently. I am not against the rise of property prices but i felt that we must have it at a sustainable level. If the income are not rising as fast as the inflation couple with job losses....whatever HYPE you create will not last.

Don't have to look far. Just look at Dubai. Their model is an accelerated version of what we are trying to do now. CREATE PLAYGROUND for the RICH. You've been there? I was there during the BOOMING years and was so tempted to buy something there. With a stroke of luck, i am glad i did not go into in. Look at the property prices there now.

Just tread with care.

Since you have let go recently, can we say you are "bearish" then?

[xebay11]

I missed the boat and is angry? Must be joking. If you have been around this forum for sometime, you would have read somewhere where i mentioned that i have fully paid properties, but of course you can say i am bull-shitting. PROPERTY OWNER in this forum even knew which property i let go recently. I am not against the rise of property prices but i felt that we must have it at a sustainable level. If the income are not rising as fast as the inflation couple with job losses....whatever HYPE you create will not last.

Don't have to look far. Just look at Dubai. Their model is an accelerated version of what we are trying to do now. CREATE PLAYGROUND for the RICH. You've been there? I was there during the BOOMING years and was so tempted to buy something there. With a stroke of luck, i am glad i did not go into in. Look at the property prices there now.

Just tread with care.

I agree that it is hype but who cares? looking at the common fools they are none the wiser, they will bite and many will get stuck. I may not be as astute as you but I have been observing property since 9 years old, sitting in the school bus and admiring all the big landed properties in Bukit Timah while going to school everyday, I am also sitting on two generations of properties and am building for my third gen and I started ground up from HDB, so I believe I have at least two cents worth, to me money is money, since you are so experienced in property you should know very well that in a rising market there are more chances to flip, since you already own mulitiple properties and don't need a roof over your head, why talk about holding? Just flip and flip, make more money, buy something you like and hold and repeat ad nauseum.

Don't know about you but right now I am shaking my head as prices are unsustainable for flipping, so I am waiting for another big opportunity and that is probably the actual IR launch, I may or may not be right, I have nothing to lose, but if I am, and you buy, flip and make money would you thank me? If I am wrong, then just take me as some fool on the property forums, I am fine with that.

[Number_9z]

Even the most "intelligent" economist cannot predict the financial meltdown...if you can afford it the supposedly high price, why not? How do we know what is a high price and what is a low price?? Because of media, internet?? or because you have gone through the econimics of calculating the population, land area, per capita etc etc??

Btw, I think the current LH prices is crazy but I have learned that there are things that you can never predict.. I though Mera Prime when it first launched was ex, look at its price now ..anyway... Warren Buffett's advice for 2009 on Risk taking --- Never test the depth of the river with both feet ...if you can afford the high price and have alternate plan ready, go for it! The economy is an artificially set up mechanism..There are winners and also losers.. but let's hope for world peace and good health!

[yokoosi]

Since you have let go recently, can we say you are "bearish" then?

Andy, "bearish" or "bullish" is a very subjective word. Let me give you an example, try borrowing $100 from someone who earns $800 and $8000 a month. What is your chances with both? If you have a few hundred thousands or millions in the bank, do you really care if we are in recession today? Is your current lifestyle affected ? Do you feel like there is a recession out there? Today is COMEX opening..who will be the spender there today?

Don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to know/work out the answers above.

My PERSONAL VIEW is that the current market is for those who has deep pockets, as for those who are just on the boarder, do tread with care. You can follow the herd, but once the reality sets in, will you be struggling or just park your property aside as another LONG TERM investment?

The free economy is a CLOSED LOOP eco-system. There will be losers and winners whether the economy, stocks, property market is up or down. The majority of the people will belong to the first group. That's why there is always an imbalance distribution of income.

Just go in at the right time after you have workout your financial standing properly.

[Condorich]

yes, do study the fundamentals.. The key indicators of the economy.... While no one can predict the future... It is anticipated that prices should correct sometime... Just when... If you are careful, you should be on the winning side.... which means take profit and move on to the next better one...

[xebay11]

My PERSONAL VIEW is that the current market is for those who has deep pockets, as for those who are just on the boarder, do tread with care. You can follow the herd, but once the reality sets in, will you be struggling or just park your property aside as another LONG TERM investment?

Sadly, the people with deep pockets will not bite in this current market, that is how they got deep pockets in the first place , it is those people on the margin that follow the herd who would go in and get bitten, many margin owners have gone in now and those who bought 99 LH at these prices, I don't see as a long term investment, on the contrary they should sell it pronto, if not now, at least within two years.

I just got an SMS from my personal real estate agent for some new launches at Hamilton Scotts, Grange Inifinite, Ritz Carlton Residences and noticed that they are calling for $3000 psf to $3400 psf, so for a 1300 sf property you would be looking at $3.9 to 4.0m, I am sure you would know better places in the property market to park your money but still there are some mega rich who would go for it as they need somewhere to put their money, if you know what I mean.

[august]

I missed the boat and is angry? Must be joking. If you have been around this forum for sometime, you would have read somewhere where i mentioned that i have fully paid properties, but of course you can say i am bull-shitting. PROPERTY OWNER in this forum even knew which property i let go recently. I am not against the rise of property prices but i felt that we must have it at a sustainable level. If the income are not rising as fast as the inflation couple with job losses....whatever HYPE you create will not last.

Don't have to look far. Just look at Dubai. Their model is an accelerated version of what we are trying to do now. CREATE PLAYGROUND for the RICH. You've been there? I was there during the BOOMING years and was so tempted to buy something there. With a stroke of luck, i am glad i did not go into in. Look at the property prices there now.

Just tread with care.

i agree with u ~

whether one has miss the boat, one has a HDB, or one is vested with several private properties, in the end everyone is in the same boat call Spore Inc. A sustainable property mkt is gd for everyone, it is not a zero sum game.

[proud owner]

Sadly, the people with deep pockets will not bite in this current market, that is how they got deep pockets in the first place , it is those people on the margin that follow the herd who would go in and get bitten, many margin owners have gone in now and those who bought 99 LH at these prices, I don't see as a long term investment, on the contrary they should sell it pronto, if not now, at least within two years.

I just got an SMS from my personal real estate agent for some new launches at Hamilton Scotts, Grange Inifinite, Ritz Carlton Residences and noticed that they are calling for $3000 psf to $3400 psf, so for a 1300 sf property you would be looking at $3.9 to 4.0m, I am sure you would know better places in the property market to park your money but still there are some mega rich who would go for it as they need somewhere to put their money, if you know what I mean.

the problem now is : the HDB upgraders are buying the LH at stupid levels ..

just becos orchard going at 3000-4000 psf does not mean AMY should be 1200 psf .. i think someone somewhere should really warn these upgraders what they are getting into ...

[xebay11]

the problem now is : the HDB upgraders are buying the LH at stupid levels ..

just becos orchard going at 3000-4000 psf does not mean AMY should be 1200 psf .. i think someone somewhere should really warn these upgraders what they are getting into ...

Stupid is, as stupid does.

[echotrain]

I agree that it is hype but who cares? looking at the common fools they are none the wiser, they will bite and many will get stuck. I may not be as astute as you but I have been observing property since 9 years old, sitting in the school bus and admiring all the big landed properties in Bukit Timah while going to school everyday, I am also sitting on two generations of properties and am building for my third gen and I started ground up from HDB, so I believe I have at least two cents worth, to me money is money, since you are so experienced in property you should know very well that in a rising market there are more chances to flip, since you already own mulitiple properties and don't need a roof over your head, why talk about holding? Just flip and flip, make more money, buy something you like and hold and repeat ad nauseum.

Don't know about you but right now I am shaking my head as prices are unsustainable for flipping, so I am waiting for another big opportunity and that is probably the actual IR launch, I may or may not be right, I have nothing to lose, but if I am, and you buy, flip and make money would you thank me? If I am wrong, then just take me as some fool on the property forums, I am fine with that.

I agree with you.

Nobody knows when the bottom is. But buying on a rising market is usually right.

[proud owner]

the problem now is : the HDB upgraders are buying the LH at stupid levels ..

just becos orchard going at 3000-4000 psf does not mean AMY should be 1200 psf .. i think someone somewhere should really warn these upgraders what they are getting into ...

AMY = AMK my mistype

also stupid people paying 1349 psf ( ?) for metropolitan in redhill ...

i rather pay 960 psf for Horizon Tower at Grangeford .. much better location .. and if buyer think this move is sustainable .. dont you think Horizon tower has enbloc postential ?

[august]

AMY = AMK my mistype

also stupid people paying 1349 psf ( ?) for metropolitan in redhill ...

i rather pay 960 psf for Horizon Tower at Grangeford .. much better location .. and if buyer think this move is sustainable .. dont you think Horizon tower has enbloc postential ?

for now the days of big enblocs maybe in the past..
horizon tower all big big units, as a whole quantum again is not small, and u know there r owners there who will die die not let go unless developers pay them the sky.. also for an old style condo its facilities r distinctly poor.

oops off topic liao

[proud owner]

for now the days of big enblocs maybe in the past..
horizon tower all big big units, as a whole quantum again is not small, and u know there r owners there who will die die not let go unless developers pay them the sky.. also for an old style condo its facilities r distinctly poor.

oops off topic liao

but by location its far superior to Metro ... those old folks in HT will 'go' one day ..

as long as the new committee do their job swee swee gather 80 over pct this time round the few old folks cannot do anything leow

[xebay11]

but by location its far superior to Metro ... those old folks in HT will 'go' one day ..

as long as the new committee do their job swee swee gather 80 over pct this time round the few old folks cannot do anything leow

Very True.

[august]

but by location its far superior to Metro ... those old folks in HT will 'go' one day ..

as long as the new committee do their job swee swee gather 80 over pct this time round the few old folks cannot do anything leow

yes, but at what price will the sellers be willing to let go this time?
i suspect if go thru they will be looking at at least 1bil, by the time add in top up lease fees etc it will be another laguna park or farrer sum or higher. Which developer can swallow or willing?

[JohnTan]

yes, but at what price will the sellers be willing to let go this time?
i suspect if go thru they will be looking at at least 1bil, by the time add in top up lease fees etc it will be another laguna park or farrer sum or higher. Which developer can swallow or willing?

It is not the outright quantum of the plot of land but the price per psf for the land that counts.

eg pay 800psf for D15 land or pay 900psf for D9 land.

eg 3 billion SGD to buy D9 land at 300psf i am sure there will be 20 developers rushing in. the developers know how to spread the risk via tie ups and joint ventures so that they can comfotabily swallow the big plot.

[august]

It is not the outright quantum of the plot of land but the price per psf for the land that counts.

eg pay 800psf for D15 land or pay 900psf for D9 land.

eg 3 billion SGD to buy D9 land at 300psf i am sure there will be 20 developers rushing in. the developers know how to spread the risk via tie ups and joint ventures so that they can comfotabily swallow the big plot.

my pt is i doubt owners now will agree to enbloc at any psf that is less than 1500psf lol

so owners agreeing on a collective price is the 1st hurdle, 2nd hurdle is whether subsequently any developers hv the capital to swallow ~

[pathetichindsight]

Hi, i am a newbie to this forum and also a newbie to private property. i recently bought a unit at trevista for own stay and also potential investment, and i sometimes wonder if it was the right decision. i have marvelled at the rate of recovery in property prices this year, and most recently, the rise of car COE to almost 20k for 1600cc & above! I heard of job losses from friends, but so far those ppl i know directly have fared well. Meanwhile HDB prices have been resilient with sellers asking for cash over valuation and its almost like the recession never happened. Optima at Tanah Merah was sold out at 700-900 psf, while Centro & Ascentia Sky were priced at 1100-1300psf, and so i reasoned that Trevista was worth a serious consideration. Recently the 99-leasehold plot of land sold by the gahmen near dakota mrt was estimated to break even at 900+ psf (i think) and estimated to sell at 1000+psf..

My point is this: has the gahmen's decision to make Singapore a more vibrant, gobalised island with F1 and IR changed our housing landscape forever? With HDB prices rising, and prices of prime HDB flats at duxton and toa payoh priced very high, does that mean that 99 year leasehold prices will also achieve new record levels in years to come? Is our HDB & private property market to be always supported by rental demand from both professional and working class foreigners? Singaporeans are becoming a higher educated and therefore bigger earning lot, which means that demand for better housing will continue into future.

Maybe you can say i am trying to convince myself that i made the right decision in buying the condo, but i am also well aware that a double dip in economy will upset this bullish thought....

will be gad to hear your perspective...

[echotrain]

times have not changed much. If you buy property for the mid term at least, you are almost always going to win.

Houses were 300-400k 20 years back. Now they are 1.5-2 mil at least.

Property will get more expensive as time goes by in Singapore. There will be dips and spikes but the upward trend will continue. Land is scarce.

Just don't park your money in your bank. When you have saved enough you will realise how much smaller your money has become. Property is a great hedge against inflation.

Hi, i am a newbie to this forum and also a newbie to private property. i recently bought a unit at trevista for own stay and also potential investment, and i sometimes wonder if it was the right decision. i have marvelled at the rate of recovery in property prices this year, and most recently, the rise of car COE to almost 20k for 1600cc & above! I heard of job losses from friends, but so far those ppl i know directly have fared well. Meanwhile HDB prices have been resilient with sellers asking for cash over valuation and its almost like the recession never happened. Optima at Tanah Merah was sold out at 700-900 psf, while Centro & Ascentia Sky were priced at 1100-1300psf, and so i reasoned that Trevista was worth a serious consideration. Recently the 99-leasehold plot of land sold by the gahmen near dakota mrt was estimated to break even at 900+ psf (i think) and estimated to sell at 1000+psf..

My point is this: has the gahmen's decision to make Singapore a more vibrant, gobalised island with F1 and IR changed our housing landscape forever? With HDB prices rising, and prices of prime HDB flats at duxton and toa payoh priced very high, does that mean that 99 year leasehold prices will also achieve new record levels in years to come? Is our HDB & private property market to be always supported by rental demand from both professional and working class foreigners? Singaporeans are becoming a higher educated and therefore bigger earning lot, which means that demand for better housing will continue into future.

Maybe you can say i am trying to convince myself that i made the right decision in buying the condo, but i am also well aware that a double dip in economy will upset this bullish thought....

will be gad to hear your perspective...

[xebay11]

times have not changed much. If you buy property for the mid term at least, you are almost always going to win.

Houses were 300-400k 20 years back. Now they are 1.5-2 mil at least.

Property will get more expensive as time goes by in Singapore. There will be dips and spikes but the upward trend will continue. Land is scarce.

Just don't park your money in your bank. When you have saved enough you will realise how much smaller your money has become. Property is a great hedge against inflation.

Don't quite agree with you on land is scarce part, I have invested in property in US, Australia and Singapore over many years, I have come to learn that in some countries, like US and OZ, I avoid areas which can be built upwards, always invest in areas where there is potential urban sprawl to make the best profits as you can buy land (cheapest) and sell later to make good profits. Singapore OTH is an area where it can be built up very easily, although it has limited land, these days appreciation is taking a hit, so location counts.

What we have seen in the past 20 years of $200-$300k properties going for Millions now cannot be extrapolated linearly, especially in the past 10 years, since 10 years ago land has increasingly been "recycled" ie. enbloced and super high rise and dense condos are being built, hence there will always be plenty of new projects, so land is not so scarce afterall, so in order to make gains in property one must get near MRT and preferably FH so that your next potential buyer would place high value on at least one of these characteristics, or both. Also as investor, always try and sell your property within 5 years, preferably 2 years as Singaporeans these days demand newer properties.

Try and build your wealth through property investments until you hit landed FH, these would hold the best value long term when you actually live in it for own stay.

I have actually invested in brand new FH near MRT now and hope for hype to drive up prices when IR is ready in about 1 year and hopefully make profits and upgrade, if IR fails to raise property prices I would simply self stay and wait until 5 years and try to sell again.