Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Slower sales for HDB's condo-style projects

  1. #1
    mr funny is offline Any complaints please PM me
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    8,129

    Default Slower sales for HDB's condo-style projects

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Invest/S...ry_408109.html

    July 26, 2009 Sunday

    Slower sales for HDB's condo-style projects

    Renewed interest in property more focused on private, HDB resale sectors

    By Jessica Cheam



    Parc Lumiere, a DBSS project, sold well because most of the units were priced below the $500,000 psychological barrier, said a market player. -- PHOTO: SIM LIAN GROUP

    The numbers show it: Singapore has been gripped by a buying frenzy that seems to have pervaded every segment of the property market.

    Sales volume for HDB resale flats has surged 58 per cent in the second quarter, and private home sales have even spread from the mass market to the upper-mid-tier segment.

    But while sales have been brisk at condos, the pace has been somewhat slower in the HDB hybrid condo-style flat sector, also called Design, Build and Sell Scheme (DBSS) projects.

    These condo-style HDB flats have better finishes and facilities, and are built by private developers.

    A survey by The Sunday Times shows that sales at three centrally located DBSS projects - The [email protected] Payoh, Park Central at Ang Mo Kio and Natura Loft at Bishan - do not seem to have moved as briskly compared to the pace seen in the HDB resale market and for private mass market homes, where projects such as [email protected] in Potong Pasir were fully sold out in a short timeframe.

    Sales are hovering at the 70 per cent to 75 per cent level, despite the fact that buyers no longer have to ballot and can buy a flat via walk-in selection.

    Analysts note that 70 per cent is a decent level of sales but point to a number of reasons these DBSS flats have not performed as well as their peers - the exception being Parc Lumiere at Simei, which has sold 93 per cent of its 360 flats since its April launch.

    Firstly, the target audience - HDB home buyers - are highly price-sensitive. Prices for bigger flats - hitting the upper range of $600,000 and just over $700,000 each - are out of reach for many buyers, say analysts.

    This is why Parc Lumiere was a sell-out, said PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail, although its location is less central. 'Most of the flats were priced below the $500,000 psychological barrier.'

    Also, the only flat types left are five-roomers, which may be too big for young couples buying their first property.

    Secondly, new private projects have been attractively priced by developers during recent launches, narrowing the price gap between DBSS flats and private condos.

    'Home buyers will prefer to buy private property, especially if compared to the higher-range DBSS flats which cost up to $730,000,' said Mr Ismail.

    Furthermore, DBSS flats are subject to HDB rules such as the $8,000 household income ceiling, ethnic quota and a five-year minimum occupation period.

    With this income ceiling, apartments priced above $700,000 will be a stretch for first-timers, said property veteran Nicholas Mak, former head of research at Knight Frank.

    Amid the recession, such buyers are also more conservative and are unlikely to commit to pricey homes, he said.

    Such DBSS projects, however, will start to see renewed interest if and when private property prices start to creep up, say market watchers.

    'When this happens, there will be a distinct price jump between DBSS properties and private condos,' said ERA Asia Pacific associate director Eugene Lim.

    Then, such HDB condo-style flats will appeal to those who cannot afford private property but find the main supply of HDB flats too basic, added Mr Ismail.

    This is already starting to happen, according to DBSS developers.

    A spokesman for United Engineers, which is developing Park Central, said that with the recent property market warming up, 'there has been an increase in sales queries and appointments at our sales office, especially in the months of June and July'.

    All DBSS developers have so far held on to their prices despite the recession.

    Meanwhile, other developers such as QingJian Realty, which built Natura Loft, are pulling in buyers in innovative ways such as holding lucky draws in which home buyers stand to win cars.

    As to whether DBSS buyers can make a profit from resale demand in the future - after the five-year occupation period - this will depend on how high prices are in the private mass market at that time, added ERA's Mr Lim.

    [email protected]
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    163

    Default

    DBSS - inside may look like condo..

    outside may still look like HDB.. Eg;

    Flyers being stuck on your doors/window grills,
    smoky joss sticks / urns hanging in the common corridor,
    rubbish bags left at the lift lobby,
    teenagers / strangers hanging around the stairways either smoking or making out,

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    163

    Default

    end of day...

    you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WolleyDragon
    DBSS - inside may look like condo..

    outside may still look like HDB.. Eg;

    Flyers being stuck on your doors/window grills,
    smoky joss sticks / urns hanging in the common corridor,
    rubbish bags left at the lift lobby,
    teenagers / strangers hanging around the stairways either smoking or making out,
    LOL. You make my day

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mr funny
    Slower sales for HDB's condo-style projects

    Renewed interest in property more focused on private, HDB resale sectors
    So, Singaporeans are not stupid after all!

    You can bluff them once, twice, maybe 3 times, but not forever!

    Sooner or later Singaporeans will wake up and realise hey what is this DBSS? 5354 one!?!?!!

    Might as well go buy resale HDB or go all the way and buy private condo!

  6. #6
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    No choice, sometimes, people will have to learn their lesson the hard way. Those buying DBSS at >$500k will be stuck for the next 5 years without being able to sell (regulation) and then another additional 5 years because sell also lose money (so unable to sell to upgrade).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Anus
    So, Singaporeans are not stupid after all!

    You can bluff them once, twice, maybe 3 times, but not forever!

    Sooner or later Singaporeans will wake up and realise hey what is this DBSS? 5354 one!?!?!!

    Might as well go buy resale HDB or go all the way and buy private condo!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Take for example, [email protected] which is selling from 1150psf upwards now. If this is a sellout project, what do u guys think will have an impact on the resale value of AMK DBSS, Park Central 5 years on. Fyi, a Park Central unit is rough priced at ~500-520psf. Will owners of a DBSS Park Central not be able to sell at a profit? Another example, [email protected] Merah selling at 900psf. If this is a another sellout project, what do u guys think will have an impact on the resale value of Simei DBSS, Parc Lumiere 5 years on which has about the same attraction as Optima - Proximity to Coming 4th Uni, Expo, Changi Business Park. Fyi, a Parc Lumiere unit is rough priced ard ~400-425psf. Will owners of a DBSS Parc Lumiere not be able to sell at a profit? DBSS projects resaleablility heavily relied on private property sales, if private property prices increase, DBSS and HDB prices will also increase, so who dare say DBSS and HDB owners who bought >500k will be stuck?

  8. #8
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    Very simple - Big differences in:
    - DBSS is just HDB flats, regardless of whether you like it or not.
    - DBSS has no facilities.
    - Owners cannot sell in 1st 5 years.
    - Foreigners cannot buy DBSS HDB flats.

    If one expect LH private properties to be priced at >2x HDB flats in same vicinity, then one would expect LH private properties to be priced at about >1.9x (or thereabout) DBSS. So current LH private properties are priced at about such level with respect to DBSS (not the other way round).

    Quote Originally Posted by 990113d03
    Take for example, [email protected] which is selling from 1150psf upwards now. If this is a sellout project, what do u guys think will have an impact on the resale value of AMK DBSS, Park Central 5 years on. Fyi, a Park Central unit is rough priced at ~500-520psf. Will owners of a DBSS Park Central not be able to sell at a profit? Another example, [email protected] Merah selling at 900psf. If this is a another sellout project, what do u guys think will have an impact on the resale value of Simei DBSS, Parc Lumiere 5 years on which has about the same attraction as Optima - Proximity to Coming 4th Uni, Expo, Changi Business Park. Fyi, a Parc Lumiere unit is rough priced ard ~400-425psf. Will owners of a DBSS Parc Lumiere not be able to sell at a profit? DBSS projects resaleablility heavily relied on private property sales, if private property prices increase, DBSS and HDB prices will also increase, so who dare say DBSS and HDB owners who bought >500k will be stuck?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    211

    Default

    regardless how well DBSS market

    DBSS still is a HDB.
    It still restrict by the HDB rule.

    If presently, the 1st owner brought the unit @ $700k.
    How much will they plan to sell 5 yrs later?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Part of the reason y HDB flat's price are on the rise is partly that there are more and more foreigners(usually rich) who have gotten PR status prefering to buy into HDB properties in good locations at mature estate to enjoy its amenites. Moreover, 60% of the private property buyers now are Singaporeans, so Sporean and PRs do have the financial power to support the HDB prices to push them up inline with private property prices. If like wht u say, DBSS and HDB prices cannot be sustain and private property prices will continue to increase, eventually a big price gap will be form between HDB and Private property which will induce more ppl to buy HDB again and refrain from buying private. Then the price gap bet private and HDB will be narrowed again. In short, private price increase, DBSS price increase, normal HDB flat increase. If private decrease, DBSS and normal flats will also decrease.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Acer, may i ask, if presently, the 1st owner bought a private centro unit @ $1.3-1.5 million in ang mo kio, how much will they plan to sell when TOP? Compared to 1st owner of Park Central in AMK buying at 600-700k, how much they plan to sell in 5 yrs time frame(HDB ruling). Same location in AMK make it actually the same upside, the only slight diff is Centro can be sold to foreigners, HDB cannot. Does the very elite foreigners i tink u all are referring to wan to stay in AMK? Who will die first, buyers of Centro(Bank loan) at 1.3million or Park Central(reminder: Flat HDB interest of 2.6%) at 600-700k. The anwser is obvious.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Anyway, this is friendly and healthy discussions huh.. no malice. I just wan to say a few words for the HDB buyers which include DBSS buyers. Anyway, i agreed buying HDB or DBSS flats is not for investment unlike private property.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 990113d03
    Acer, may i ask, if presently, the 1st owner bought a private centro unit @ $1.3-1.5 million in ang mo kio, how much will they plan to sell when TOP? Compared to 1st owner of Park Central in AMK buying at 600-700k, how much they plan to sell in 5 yrs time frame(HDB ruling). Same location in AMK make it actually the same upside, the only slight diff is Centro can be sold to foreigners, HDB cannot. Does the very elite foreigners i tink u all are referring to wan to stay in AMK? Who will die first, buyers of Centro(Bank loan) at 1.3million or Park Central(reminder: Flat HDB interest of 2.6%) at 600-700k. The anwser is obvious.
    There is one thing you must consider:

    Timing & liquidity - private condo you can sell near the peak anytime. What if the peak come 3 years later? And 5 years later is another cycle's bottom? In any investment, liquidity is very important.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    That is y i said HDB is not for investment but in the long run, if buyers of HDB can hold, still got chance to make money or break even in future. HDB owners wont die lah, very safe bet with fixed interest of 2.6%.

  15. #15
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    You are right, "HDB is not for investment". Buy HDB for own-stay (& own-consumption) at low cost is OK, but when people willing to pay so much for HDB (regardless of DBSS or not), then it does give people the impression that these people are actually wanting to "invest" in HDB rather than for own-stay. For own-stay and own-consumption, don't need to think about making money (because there really isn't much money to be made. As long as don't lose money on paper already should be very happy (which actually is an illusion because inflation will always be higher than what HDB price can appreciate)). Just to caution these people only though. The final decision is up to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by 990113d03
    That is y i said HDB is not for investment but in the long run, if buyers of HDB can hold, still got chance to make money or break even in future. HDB owners wont die lah, very safe bet with fixed interest of 2.6%.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    How about Pinnacle at Duxton? Whenit come out in 2004, everyone said it is foolish to 400+K on a 5-rm unit which is only 108sqm. Currently,it is easily valued at ~700k for a high floor 5-rm Pinnacle unit though owners must wait till 5 years before they can cash out on profits. Anyone have views on whether Pinnacle at Duxton is consider a good investment? I believe initially most owners just wanted to buy for own stay and does not have the intention of treating it as a investment. But they strike a lottery with Pinnacle.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    How about Tampines DBSS The Premiere? When it come out in 2006, everyone said it is very expensive to buy a HDB flat in Tampines at 400k for a 5-rm unit, might as well buy a condo. Currently,it should easily fetched ~550k for a high floor 5-rm unit though owners must wait till 5 years before they can cash out on profits. Anyone have views on whether DBSS Tampines, the 1st DBSS is consider a good investment? Both [email protected] and The [email protected] are considered premium HDB projects and both most definitely conjured profits once owners has fulfilled the 5 year lock in period and decide to cash out on their units. Having said that, these 2 projects might be miracles which will never happen again on the upcoming premium HDB projects which are priced much higher at 600-700k range. Just for thoughts!

  18. #18
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    As you said, the high price you quoted is "currently". HDB prices are now at historical high. 5 years later may be it would have crashed? This is similar to 1997 period and many people who bought HDB flats during that time never get above water until 12 years later (i.e. now). Those who bought DBSS now probably may end up in the same situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by 990113d03
    How about Tampines DBSS The Premiere? When it come out in 2006, everyone said it is very expensive to buy a HDB flat in Tampines at 400k for a 5-rm unit, might as well buy a condo. Currently,it should easily fetched ~550k for a high floor 5-rm unit though owners must wait till 5 years before they can cash out on profits. Anyone have views on whether DBSS Tampines, the 1st DBSS is consider a good investment? Both [email protected] and The [email protected] are considered premium HDB projects and both most definitely conjured profits once owners has fulfilled the 5 year lock in period and decide to cash out on their units. Having said that, these 2 projects might be miracles which will never happen again on the upcoming premium HDB projects which are priced much higher at 600-700k range. Just for thoughts!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    77

    Default

    During 1997 period, there were then oversupply of HDB flats. This is a lesson for the government and HDB. Since then, HDB has introduced the BTO system to control HDB supply to ensure there will always be strong demand for HDB. The 1997 scenario is unlikely to happen. Now it seems there is more supply of private properties compared to new HDB flats introduced. If HDB flats price were to crash this time, its due to private property bubble burst and not because of oversupply of HDB flats built which is the case in 1997.

Similar Threads

  1. Post-launch, popular housing projects see slower sales
    By reporter2 in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 1
    -: 09-06-14, 15:37
  2. Showflats still busy, but sales slower
    By reporter2 in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 0
    -: 12-01-12, 16:19
  3. Slower sales despite crowded showflats
    By mr funny in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 2
    -: 06-10-10, 22:31
  4. Slower April sales not stopping launches
    By mr funny in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 0
    -: 21-04-10, 02:23
  5. Two BTO projects to start despite slower flat sales
    By mr funny in forum HDB, EC, commercial and industrial property discussion
    Replies: 0
    -: 09-10-09, 00:55

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •