Home supply pipeline shrinks, prices stiffen

[teddybear]

Actually, even foreigners can buy GCB lah! Just that they need to seek clearance (usually granted if you are big shot and can benefit Singapore).

You lived in landed before? Tell you, landed properties building quality also usually poorer than condo since they are low rise and quality can be lousier and they still won't fall down. Imagine those 30 storeys building and they try to use lousy quality and cut corner? Usually landed after 15-20 years you will need to spend a lot of money to maintain this crack that crack this leak that leak unless you tear down and rebuild again (whereas condo can generally last very very much longer). (This partially explains the lower psf price since construction cost cheaper).

That Indian can't buy Landed lah... Only citizen can buy GCB... otherwise he won't be overpaying for his PH. Why pay $15M to share the lift with the other 1000+ units? And also have only 1 parking lot???

Landed px is lower on a psf basis as mostly a local mkt, n not played up by foreigners. But that doesn't mean it is not a good investment. U can ask your parents & their friends who have bought FH landed in the 1970s or 1980s in average to popular areas don't even need to be in GCB or D9,10,11 what is the value of their landed hse now?

Likewise u ask the same group those that bought LH 99 condo then, what is the value of their houses now?

[teddybear]

The Sail is one of a kind lah. Many many other condos out there have more than enough for the residents to park an average of 1.2-1.5 cars.

Here got one poisonous spider ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqvdQeb5RB8

That Dr. Gupta has a reason for staying in condo ... more security.



The Sail@Marina and other new condos have one big problem - i.e. not enough parking lots.

Surely someone who can afford a million-dollar apartment can afford more than one car. At least one for the husband and one for the wife.

I see this as a potential future problem as more and more old condos with huge car parks are en-bloced and turned into new condos with insufficient lots. The Sail@Marina has only 700 parking lots for 1,111 units. How ah? Not even enough for its own residents, not to mention visitors e.g during Chinese New Year.

However, there should not be a problem for landed houses because can park two cars plus outside on the road side.



"Direct access to MRT stations" and "Within walking distance to many workplaces" doesn't mean that there is no need to have a car to drive around to other parts of Singapore.

What a stupid comment.

[jc]

Actually, even foreigners can buy GCB lah! Just that they need to seek clearance (usually granted if you are big shot and can benefit Singapore).

You lived in landed before? Tell you, landed properties building quality also usually poorer than condo since they are low rise and quality can be lousier and they still won't fall down. Imagine those 30 storeys building and they try to use lousy quality and cut corner? Usually landed after 15-20 years you will need to spend a lot of money to maintain this crack that crack this leak that leak unless you tear down and rebuild again (whereas condo can generally last very very much longer). (This partially explains the lower psf price since construction cost cheaper).

Well, quote me an example where non-citizen can buy GCB. U mean Jet Li not hot shot enough? Even he needs to convert ot citizen to buy GCB.

Not true landed is of poorer quality. Unless your developer is Fxx Exxx. Then that is another story. Yes i lived in landed for a long time. Don't tell me you live in landed n your hse is falling apart?? U need to set aside maintenace fund mthly/ annually, like those mandatory fees u pay in condo pal. Otherwise, anything that is not maintained after a long time will more or less show. Try asking condo not to maintain the place for 10yrs n see what is the effect

[jc]

Unless it is en-bloced properties like Farrer Court or Grangeford.

These properties have the same characteristic as landed properties: huge land, redevelopment potential.

These are the most rewarding to invest, provided you have the holding power.

The worst are new properties bought directly from developers.

The juice had already been squeezed out (profit for the previous enblockers + profit for developers). Even in a super bull run, they increase by at most 20% to 30% (Frankly I don't know why those people are queueing up for?)

Old landed houses and enbloc potential condos have the ability to return more than 100%. Even in bad times, they are able to hold better.

Look out for old houses or condos with huge land and lots of trees. Do you see money there?

Even the return from Farrer Ct or Grangeford cannot beat holding a landed pty in the same vicinity, n not everyone is lucky to get enbloc. So what happen if your LH99 condo don't get enbloc??? Worst than HDB after 30yrs rite? HDB got SERS garment will take care of u... For LH99 pte condo after 30yrs if still not enbloc basically gone case as your remaining lease is prob left 65yrs. U think that is attractive to buyers or bankers?

Someone said next time The Sail can enbloc. Rite.. Built to 120 storeys... Plot ratio intensify to 30...

[jlrx]

Even the return from Farrer Ct or Grangeford cannot beat holding a landed pty in the same vicinity, n not everyone is lucky to get enbloc. So what happen if your LH99 condo don't get enbloc??? Worst than HDB after 30yrs rite? HDB got SERS garment will take care of u... For LH99 pte condo after 30yrs if still not enbloc basically gone case as your remaining lease is prob left 65yrs. U think that is attractive to buyers or bankers?

Someone said next time The Sail can enbloc. Rite.. Built to 120 storeys... Plot ratio intensify to 30...

You are right. Freehold landed is the best (Ok I'm biased).

Every building can be enbloced. All it takes is a stroke of the pen from the URA to increase plot ratio to 45,000,000 and height control to 100,000,000 storeys.

[jc]

You are right. Freehold landed is the best (Ok I'm biased).

Every building can be enbloced. All it takes is a stroke of the pen from the URA to increase plot ratio to 45,000,000 and height control to 100,000,000 storeys.

I like your pics But Sail prob has very little chance of enbloc vis a vis others. Look at the vast amount of high density space/ land available in the area still available. There may be a sequel like the Sail II or something. Plenty of potential supply in the area...

[teddybear]

You sure Jet Li converted to Singapore Citizen? Even if so, are you saying that everybody who bought a GCB must be a Singapore Citizen? I am quite sure this is not true (as there is previously a reported case of an American buying a bungalow in Singapore and his lawyer ran away with part of that money). He is definitely not a Singapore citizen.

The maintenance fund is for maintenance of the exterior of the condo and also for the facilities. On the other hand, landed has no facilities. If you check the building quality score, it is already very obvious that landed properties always have poorer score than condos.

Well, quote me an example where non-citizen can buy GCB. U mean Jet Li not hot shot enough? Even he needs to convert ot citizen to buy GCB.

Not true landed is of poorer quality. Unless your developer is Fxx Exxx. Then that is another story. Yes i lived in landed for a long time. Don't tell me you live in landed n your hse is falling apart?? U need to set aside maintenace fund mthly/ annually, like those mandatory fees u pay in condo pal. Otherwise, anything that is not maintained after a long time will more or less show. Try asking condo not to maintain the place for 10yrs n see what is the effect

[jlrx]

You sure Jet Li converted to Singapore Citizen? Even if so, are you saying that everybody who bought a GCB must be a Singapore Citizen? I am quite sure this is not true (as there is previously a reported case of an American buying a bungalow in Singapore and his lawyer ran away with part of that money). He is definitely not a Singapore citizen.

The maintenance fund is for maintenance of the exterior of the condo and also for the facilities. On the other hand, landed has no facilities. If you check the building quality score, it is already very obvious that landed properties always have poorer score than condos.

Today I read Yahoo! News (obtained from Xin.sg) that Jet Li is confirmed to have taken up Singapore Citizenship.

Jet Li is now a Singapore citizen



The 46-year-old Chinese producer cum actor recently raised eyebrows when he was reported to have spent 20million dollars on a sprawling bungalow located in Binjai Rise, a prime residential area. Li reportedly emigrated to the United States 20 years ago to advance his career in the Hollywood movie industry. He was confirmed of his Singaporean citizenship a month ago and was said to have chose Singapore for its good education system.

Li's older 10-year-old daughter is currently schooling at the Singapore American School. He hopes for both his children to receive an all-rounded education. During the Forbes Global CEO Conference organised in Singapore last year, the Chinese actor appeared to be very supportive and pleased with the education system in Singapore.

With a Singapore citizenship, the actor can now spend more time with his family members who have been residing in Singapore for the past two years. Apart from enjoying the country's good education system and the privileges conferred upon its citizens, plus with a Singapore passport, he can now travel from country to country without much hassle and documentation work.

The actor is currently taking a break from acting to concentrate with his charity work. He launched a charity organization called "One Foundation" in China last year in April. A joint-collaboration with the Red Cross Society of China, One Foundation hopes to raise funds and provide help to all victims of natural disasters.

The criteria granted to PRs for buying landed properties are not very clear but we can roughly guess.

When I was buying my landed property, one of my competing buyers was a PR but his application was turned down. He was in some sort of "sales and marketing" job which I think didn't bring revenue/ fame/ discoveries to Singapore.

I think the keyword is "contribution", e.g. invested in factories that create jobs, set up charity foundation like Jet Li did, involved in scientific research which brings fame or discoveries to Singapore.

On the other hand, a PR who is an insurance salesman selling insurance to Singaopreans, or a property agent dealing in Singapore properties would probably not be deemed to have made sufficient "contribution", unless he is some sort of international insurance or property broker who brings business and revenue into Singapore through an HQ based here.

[jlrx]

I like your pics But Sail prob has very little chance of enbloc vis a vis others. Look at the vast amount of high density space/ land available in the area still available. There may be a sequel like the Sail II or something. Plenty of potential supply in the area...

That is what I am concerned with also - the vast amount of land available around that area.

I think Orchard Road is a safer bet. There is hardly any vacant land around unless they tear down Raffles Girls' School.

[teddybear]

Yes, you are right about PR eligibility to buy landed, and hence this is why I believe landed property prices will never fly although their number will remain limited. This is because only PRs and foreigners who are deemed to have contributed significantly to Singapore's economy will get approval to buy landed and people who can achieve such status will be mainly buying big Bungalows, not those terrace house, semi-D or even miki-mouse bungalows. On the other hand, there are many many more rich people out there who have no significant contribution to Singapore but they can buy any private condos and hence condo prices have better chance of appreciation. We know that many Singaporeans have no ability to buy expensive landed and even those who can afford will prefer to buy condos because the latter have better chance of price appreciation.

Today I read Yahoo! News (obtained from Xin.sg) that Jet Li is confirmed to have taken up Singapore Citizenship.



The criteria granted to PRs for buying landed properties are not very clear but we can roughly guess.

When I was buying my landed property, one of my competing buyers was a PR but his application was turned down. He was in some sort of "sales and marketing" job which I think didn't bring revenue/ fame/ discoveries to Singapore.

I think the keyword is "contribution", e.g. invested in factories that create jobs, set up charity foundation like Jet Li did, involved in scientific research which brings fame or discoveries to Singapore.

On the other hand, a PR who is an insurance salesman selling insurance to Singaopreans, or a property agent dealing in Singapore properties would probably not be deemed to have made sufficient "contribution", unless he is some sort of international insurance or property broker who brings business and revenue into Singapore through an HQ based here.

[teddybear]

Are you referring to Raffles Girl Secondary School? Well, that place is a bit too far from the main Orchard Road where all the action is (now centred on ION). Even if RGSS is freed up for condos, they will only 99LH (not FH).

That is what I am concerned with also - the vast amount of land available around that area.

I think Orchard Road is a safer bet. There is hardly any vacant land around unless they tear down Raffles Girls' School.

[jlrx]

Are you referring to Raffles Girl Secondary School? Well, that place is a bit too far from the main Orchard Road where all the action is (now centred on ION). Even if RGSS is freed up for condos, they will only 99LH (not FH).

It's further from ION but Anderson Road is an exclusive area.

I wonder why anyone would buy the Orchard Residences above ION? Hasn't it been proven time and again that apartments above shopping centres end up being very run-down, e.g. Lucky Plaza Apartments, People's Park Centre and People's Park Complex which was recently turned into workers' quarters, and the notorious "Four Floors of Whores"?

After a while, such apartments have the tendency to become vey unappealing. And furthermore, it's leasehold.

For investments, I would prefer freehold condos with big land areas like Ardmore Park. At least next time in case there is en bloc, the land is bigger.

I wonder how the Orchard Residences is able to enbloc in future, like 60 years down the road?

[durian]

are you still alive 60 years later? by the way singapore is only 44 yrs old. how many can get the King of orchard feeling? the address alone already command respect.

It's further from ION but Anderson Road is an exclusive area.

I wonder why anyone would buy the Orchard Residences above ION? Hasn't it been proven time and again that apartments above shopping centres end up being very run-down, e.g. Lucky Plaza Apartments, People's Park Centre and People's Park Complex which was recently turned into workers' quarters, and the notorious "Four Floors of Whores"?

After a while, such apartments have the tendency to become vey unappealing. And furthermore, it's leasehold.

For investments, I would prefer freehold condos with big land areas like Ardmore Park. At least next time in case there is en bloc, the land is bigger.

I wonder how the Orchard Residences is able to enbloc in future, like 60 years down the road?

[cheerful]

are you still alive 60 years later? by the way singapore is only 44 yrs old. how many can get the King of orchard feeling? the address alone already command respect.

Yah lah .. it's about quality of life ...

But I think he was talking about enbloc with some visualization/imagination ... abit hard to see how this orchard project will become 60 yrs down the road leh ..

[august]

as long as prime location, value will more or less be preserved.. 20 yrs down the rd ion may indeed be a bit run down but older projects in the vicinity would hv come up for redevelopment and they wont be at a lower value, so they will take over top dog position from ion and the value of ion preserved. Is all about timing and economic cycles ~

[jc]

It's further from ION but Anderson Road is an exclusive area.

I wonder why anyone would buy the Orchard Residences above ION? Hasn't it been proven time and again that apartments above shopping centres end up being very run-down, e.g. Lucky Plaza Apartments, People's Park Centre and People's Park Complex which was recently turned into workers' quarters, and the notorious "Four Floors of Whores"?

After a while, such apartments have the tendency to become vey unappealing. And furthermore, it's leasehold.

For investments, I would prefer freehold condos with big land areas like Ardmore Park. At least next time in case there is en bloc, the land is bigger.

I wonder how the Orchard Residences is able to enbloc in future, like 60 years down the road?

Hi Pal i agree wif your school of thoughts too. People's Park used to be the most hip place "last time", but it is sad that now it has become a Workers quarters & other whatevers... I don't know how they want to enbloc these kind of pty that has "no land" Orchard Reisdences, Centris, etc. worse if it is LH99.

A side pt., The value of retail is very different from Residential, n likelyhood even if enbloc retail would be compensated more...

[teddybear]

How to define exclusive? Yio Chu Kang is also a very exclusive area where the rich used to live (as you can see, there are so many landed properties there). However, property prices there sort of didn't appreciate as much as other places. Nowsdays, the near the property is to happening place and the more convenient it is, the higher value it will have, not just purely being exclusive.

It's further from ION but Anderson Road is an exclusive area.

I wonder why anyone would buy the Orchard Residences above ION? Hasn't it been proven time and again that apartments above shopping centres end up being very run-down, e.g. Lucky Plaza Apartments, People's Park Centre and People's Park Complex which was recently turned into workers' quarters, and the notorious "Four Floors of Whores"?

After a while, such apartments have the tendency to become vey unappealing. And furthermore, it's leasehold.

For investments, I would prefer freehold condos with big land areas like Ardmore Park. At least next time in case there is en bloc, the land is bigger.

I wonder how the Orchard Residences is able to enbloc in future, like 60 years down the road?

[jc]

Yes, you are right about PR eligibility to buy landed, and hence this is why I believe landed property prices will never fly although their number will remain limited. This is because only PRs and foreigners who are deemed to have contributed significantly to Singapore's economy will get approval to buy landed and people who can achieve such status will be mainly buying big Bungalows, not those terrace house, semi-D or even miki-mouse bungalows. On the other hand, there are many many more rich people out there who have no significant contribution to Singapore but they can buy any private condos and hence condo prices have better chance of appreciation. We know that many Singaporeans have no ability to buy expensive landed and even those who can afford will prefer to buy condos because the latter have better chance of price appreciation.

The fact that FH landed is of limited supply is already worth its value. More people are eligible to buy condo does not equate prices will fly as garment can always release more LH land to meet demand. Landed appreciates slow & steady n suffer little price volatility.

Not all condo px will "fly". And many condo px fly up & drop down. Some are worse... Px is stagnant n equate loss when inflation is taken into account. There are just too many of such...

Well, to prove your point, share with the rest what are some good buys that u have had, that outperform landed or others...

[jlrx]

are you still alive 60 years later? by the way singapore is only 44 yrs old. how many can get the King of orchard feeling? the address alone already command respect.

I may or may not be alive after 60 years. By then, even if I am not dead, I will be very old, but the value of the property will be definitely much higher if it has en bloc potential.

Then I can sell it to someone younger who has the time to wait, and use the money to pay medical bills (touch wood) or other expenses.

How to define exclusive? Yio Chu Kang is also a very exclusive area where the rich used to live (as you can see, there are so many landed properties there). However, property prices there sort of didn't appreciate as much as other places. Nowsdays, the near the property is to happening place and the more convenient it is, the higher value it will have, not just purely being exclusive.

Landed prices didn't appreciate as much as condos, but also didn't come down as much. Landed is much more slow and steady, probably because there is no foreign influx / outflow of capital.

St Regis Residences at Cuscaden Road shot up from a low of $1,235 psf (12 Dec 2006 just before the 2007 bull run) to a high of $4,653 psf (9 May 2007 the euphoric period) and then a low of $2,010 psf (27 Feb 2009 the hopeless period) and $2,697 psf (13 July 2009 most recently). Although the units were not on the same floor, the rise and fall was really frightening. And we are talking about several million dollars! Not for the faint hearted!

This type of game only the super rich can play. If I invest in this type of properties and it goes up and down like this, I'll not be able to sleep.

On the other hand, old single-storey semi-D (around 2,500 to 3,000 sf) at Sembawang Hill Estate (Yio Chu Kang) which costs around $300+ psf (unit land price) in Dec 2006 (just before the bull run) to around $400+ psf in May 2007 (the euphoric period) to around $400+ psf in Feb 2009 (the hopelss period) and around $400+ psf today.

Looks like there is not much euphoria or panic in the landed property market. In fact, looking at the data I don't even see any trend between May 2007 and today. The only jump was between Dec 2006 to May 2007 when everything went crazy in Singapore. After that it sort of got stuck there.

What we know is that over the long term, it tends to trend up.

How much is a good night's sleep worth?

[dfstan]

On the other hand, old single-storey semi-D (around 2,500 to 3,000 sf) at Sembawang Hill Estate (Yio Chu Kang) which costs around $300+ psf (unit land price) in Dec 2006 (just before the bull run) to around $400+ psf in May 2007 (the euphoric period) to around $400+ psf in Feb 2009 (the hopelss period) and around $400+ psf today.

excuse me? SHE (Sembawang HIll Estate) prices also went up. i think you price of $400+ psf for a SD (2.5K psf to 3K psf) is a bargin now. if you have such lobang, please pm me.

[jlrx]

excuse me? SHE (Sembawang HIll Estate) prices also went up. i think you price of $400+ psf for a SD (2.5K psf to 3K psf) is a bargin now. if you have such lobang, please pm me.

Landed properties very hard to judge because all are so different.

Two small single-storey terraces of 1,501 sf recently in July transacted at $566 psf and $576 psf and one even at $1,033 psf (I suspect that it is a re-built terrace which is 2 or 3 storeys but forgotten to update their records). On the other hand, there are some 2,000 sf to 2,500 sf sold at $415 to $485 psf.

I think, taking the average, the "market price" should be in the high $400's, closer to $500 psf.

[proud owner]

are you still alive 60 years later? by the way singapore is only 44 yrs old. how many can get the King of orchard feeling? the address alone already command respect.

i dont know if you have heard this ...

i heard it many many time ..
why buy FH ..?? you think you can outlive 99 yrs ??

we all concluded that majority of those who said that ..tend to be those who could not afford FH ...

anyway it is true that ION is expensive for a LH in orchard road..

what quality of life ?? when youi have thousands of people walking around you .. ??

the only moment of peace is within the unit, windows shut, aircon on .. maybe still can hear some car honking ..

[proud owner]

Landed properties very hard to judge because all are so different.

Two small single-storey terraces of 1,501 sf recently in July transacted at $566 psf and $576 psf and one even at $1,033 psf (I suspect that it is a re-built terrace which is 2 or 3 storeys but forgotten to update their records). On the other hand, there are some 2,000 sf to 2,500 sf sold at $415 to $485 psf.

I think, taking the average, the "market price" should be in the high $400's, closer to $500 psf.

i boought my landed hosue in 2006 at 545 psf, original 13yr condition and a year later in 2007..my neighbour sold his , also original ... at 870 psf ..

and the 'renovated , new' ones went for 1000 psf

and its district 5

[jlrx]

i boought my landed hosue in 2006 at 545 psf, original 13yr condition and a year later in 2007..my neighbour sold his , also original ... at 870 psf ..

and the 'renovated , new' ones went for 1000 psf

and its district 5

Is it one or two storeys?

If two storeys the price will be higher mah ...