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Thread: Centro

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tick
    yes it has to be multi-storey carpark..

    1. to save construction cost so that they can milk more from $1,200 psf.

    2. Levels 1-5 will have low occupancy rates since the MRT noise is gonna drive them nuts.
    Noise travels in a radial manner, ie. all directions. It will be worst at higher floors as the roadside trees will absorb sound at the lower level. Pay more get more noise from the MRT trains.

  2. #92
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    i find it strange, why do u prime district owners always feel that rise in pty px must always be led by prime districts all the time? Could ths trend be slowly reversing whereby CCR pty pxs are stabalising while RCR n OCR are steadily increasing? IMO condos like Sail n MBR are artificially high n current pricing seems like forward pricing to me. Do those who bought the sail at 2kpsf seriously expect px to go up to 3kpsf when IR comes up? The Sail started off as a mass mkt condo in CCR n interior will always be mass mkt quality. The locatn for the sail may be fantastic to some but not everybody who goes to CBD for work likes to live in it.

  3. #93
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    $750 psf I also won't buy because if AMK $750 psf I rather buy some place in D9, D10, D11 at $1100-$1300 psf. Avoid the perpetual jam on roads leading to city and west-wards (unless you work in AMK or nearby).

    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb
    Fully agree.. Think lease starts from 2007. So 2012 TOP left 94 years. 1150psf can kiss my ass. Really only idiots will buy this. Even at 950psf, I think it is dumb. But 'ren ge you zi'. As long as not I lose money, I don't care. The warnings have been sound. Whether the idiot wants to buy or not, it depends on him/her.

    Anyway, gfoo will know this better than anyone. At 1150psf, what if drop until 900psf? 900psf is still on the very high side for such lame location. When it hits 900psf, then all the best. Prepare your ass to receive letter from banks asking for top up. If drop until 800psf, your ass sure bleed. And at 800psf, it is only a fair pricing for such lousy location.

    Also agree on the 7k psf theory. I think my sail can sell at 3000psf if AMK subsale selling at 1300psf. Assuming 5% profit after deducting bank loan penalty and stamp. But anyway, I will take this 1150psf to buy river valley anytime. No offence to those staying at AMK but seriously, it is only a suburban area. So far and perpetually jammed (both human and cars). But if anyone ass get burned, let me know. I will buy from you at 750psf - a fair price for this location.
    Last edited by teddybear; 28-07-09 at 13:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    i find it strange, why do u prime district owners always feel that rise in pty px must always be led by prime districts all the time? Could ths trend be slowly reversing whereby CCR pty pxs are stabalising while RCR n OCR are steadily increasing?
    gd question..
    imo such a situation can occur only when the social and wealth distribution of society changes i.e. a more equitable income distribution.. in this aspect SG is feudalistic to say the least, we are closer to the extreme end of capitalism than ever before, and at the rate pap is going things wont change any time soon

    IMO condos like Sail n MBR are artificially high n current pricing seems like forward pricing to me. Do those who bought the sail at 2kpsf seriously expect px to go up to 3kpsf when IR comes up? The Sail started off as a mass mkt condo in CCR n interior will always be mass mkt quality. The locatn for the sail may be fantastic to some but not everybody who goes to CBD for work likes to live in it.
    yes forward pricing.. they r more for investments than own stay IMO. When all the promised amenities e.g. garden, financial centres etc are up, which is still some yrs off, marina bay will be primed to take off.

  5. #95
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    The social divide unfortunately is only going to widen - it already has by quite a bit. The good news is that the middle class is slowly moving up the scale, and that's where we see them propping up ridiculous pricing in the suburbs. but the lower middle and below are getting further away from the middle as well. This will soon create social strife - perhaps that's why we see so many 'society harmony' stories nowadays in the papers

    Quote Originally Posted by august
    gd question..
    imo such a situation can occur only when the social and wealth distribution of society changes i.e. a more equitable income distribution.. in this aspect SG is feudalistic to say the least, we are closer to the extreme end of capitalism than ever before, and at the rate pap is going things wont change any time soon


    yes forward pricing.. they r more for investments than own stay IMO. When all the promised amenities e.g. garden, financial centres etc are up, which is still some yrs off, marina bay will be primed to take off.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    The social divide unfortunately is only going to widen - it already has by quite a bit. The good news is that the middle class is slowly moving up the scale, and that's where we see them propping up ridiculous pricing in the suburbs. but the lower middle and below are getting further away from the middle as well. This will soon create social strife - perhaps that's why we see so many 'society harmony' stories nowadays in the papers
    May b u are right, 24% of employed household has income btn 8000-15000 per month.

    http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/pape...ple/op-s15.pdf
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    Last edited by jitkiat; 28-07-09 at 20:11.

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    Hope u aren't giving us those theories about what HDB simi flat size, etc. etc. justifying the trend (e.g. aga aga 5% from the air) .... blah blah ... then now simi hsehold income which band which band can explain the up up & away trend hor ....

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    May b u are right, 24% of employed household has income btn 8000-15000 per month.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    Hope u aren't giving us those theories about what HDB simi flat size, etc. etc. justifying the trend (e.g. aga aga 5% from the air) .... blah blah ... then now simi hsehold income which band which band can explain the up up & away trend hor ....
    Stats is there, up to anybody to interpret.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Condorich
    Just a wild guess on their expected sales and pricing model.
    100% sold pricing could be $800 psf
    90% sold pricing could be $850 psf
    80% sold pricing could be at $900 psf
    70% sold pricing could be at $950 psf
    60% sold pricing could be at $1000 psf
    50% sold pricing could be at $1050 psf
    40% sold pricing could be at $1100 psf
    30% sold pricing could be at $1150 psf
    20% sold pricing could be at $1200 psf
    10% sold pricing could be at $1250 psf.
    Interesting model, but I don't think they would be happy with a take up rate of just 30% @ $1150psf as they would at least aim for 50% so that they can slowly adjust the price upwards having locked in a healthy sales number?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    May b u are right, 24% of employed household has income btn 8000-15000 per month.

    http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/pape...ple/op-s15.pdf
    Thanks for posting this, I didn't realize such a high % have household incomes between 8k-15k / month. That perhaps could be one of the reasons for the recent high take up rates (many with huge savings and deciding to take the plunge because of negative real rates of return by placing their $ in banks).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Stats is there, up to anybody to interpret.
    That's right ... appreciate that u're doing this (i.e. simply post data without further analysizing it) ... afterall, household income is just an indication. How on earth to know abt the disposal portion ..

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    That's right ... appreciate that u're doing this (i.e. simply post data without further analysizing it) ... afterall, household income is just an indication. How on earth to know abt the disposal portion ..
    Yes, they might have already committed to some big ticket items like houses or luxury cars (still paying)... Not uncommon to hear of people in the high income group, who spend more than what they earn. Perhaps the study could indicate the proportion of high income group owners who have already fully paid up their existing homes and segment by districts.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    anyone got any updates on this project? one agent called me and said some units were SOLD at 1200psf last weekend, tried to market me another project on relative attractiveness.... i thought have not even previewed yet, how come some sold already?
    As conveyed by the other folks in the forum, I really advise staying off this at 1200psf. I received a SMS that for the 3 bedrooms, it is 1000psf. Still too expensive in my opinion

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueb
    Thanks for posting this, I didn't realize such a high % have household incomes between 8k-15k / month. That perhaps could be one of the reasons for the recent high take up rates (many with huge savings and deciding to take the plunge because of negative real rates of return by placing their $ in banks).
    I think the range is too wide. Is 8K considered middle income? Is 12K considered middle income? I think it is very subjective.

    Based on my candid conversations with fellow citizens, there are 9 bands of income classifications.
    Low, middle and high income group.
    Within each group, there are another 3 bands called lower, middle and higher.
    It is up to anyone to fit the various income ranges into the different bands. :P

  15. #105
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    http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hes.pdf

    Old stats from year 2003,
    % of income spent on housing about 20+%
    average household income staying at private flats ~ 10k per month

    It makes sense, if monthly household income is $10,000, then if 25% goes to monthly down-payment of condo will be about $2,500. So, in general, household income of 10,000 per month will be financially comfortable to stay in 1 million dollar condo. If you exclude those > 15k, we are left with only 12% of households (btn 10k-15k). This explains why 80% of people stay in HDB.
    Last edited by jitkiat; 29-07-09 at 10:22.

  16. #106
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    so similar to Meadows @ Pierce and Optima, the new strategy is to create headlines with shockingly high psf, then tell people 3 bedroom psf is lower than 1 and 2 bedders and thus, relatively attractive?


    Quote Originally Posted by gohsoonk
    As conveyed by the other folks in the forum, I really advise staying off this at 1200psf. I received a SMS that for the 3 bedrooms, it is 1000psf. Still too expensive in my opinion

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    so similar to Meadows @ Pierce and Optima, the new strategy is to create headlines with shockingly high psf, then tell people 3 bedroom psf is lower than 1 and 2 bedders and thus, relatively attractive?

    for those looking to buy Centro ...perhaps they might want to revisit Castle Green ... opposite YCK station ..one station after AMK ..

    see what happened to it now .. its a forgotten condo .. so what it is near MRT , surrounded by HDB .. and amenities ..

    and what happens to its value ?


    the same will happen to Centro

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    for those looking to buy Centro ...perhaps they might want to revisit Castle Green ... opposite YCK station ..one station after AMK ..

    see what happened to it now .. its a forgotten condo .. so what it is near MRT , surrounded by HDB .. and amenities ..

    and what happens to its value ?


    the same will happen to Centro
    location location location
    let's face it, hdb heartland condos upside very very limited relatively speaking

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    location location location
    let's face it, hdb heartland condos upside very very limited relatively speaking

    dont quite understand you

    so is centro LOCATION good ?

    if yes then why upside limited ?


    whichever the case .. condos in HDB est never do well ..

    good luck to those who have bought Centro.. at 1000 psf and higher ...
    your neighbour in a HDB Maisonette is better off ... his value will go up becos of you .. but yours very very limited upset ..

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    Heard from one of my banker that that almost half of his bank valuers dare not value this property and their bank is quite unwilling to provide loan for this development. Any idea which bank is involved in this development?

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    so is centro LOCATION good ?

    if yes then why upside limited ?
    no good, its OCR.. (of cos for own stay diff story)

    upside limited bcos it is way overpriced

  22. #112
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    the most gungho bank i can think of now is ocbc
    Quote Originally Posted by francislkc
    Heard from one of my banker that that almost half of his bank valuers dare not value this property and their bank is quite unwilling to provide loan for this development. Any idea which bank is involved in this development?

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    Quote Originally Posted by francislkc
    Heard from one of my banker that that almost half of his bank valuers dare not value this property and their bank is quite unwilling to provide loan for this development. Any idea which bank is involved in this development?
    Worried about Loan defaults?
    or the bubble is going to break anytime?

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    Actually, I feel that many people are wrong about OCR leading the rise. When I am looking at my TR, the price is 800-900psf. Started looking since Jan. Slowly, I feel the prices rise. I was looking at sail/MBR, icon, RV condos, orchard and some better suburban like casa merah, kovan residence, metropolitan, one north and even lakeshore.

    What I feel is that prices suddenly rise at sail, MBR and to some extend, Icon. Then 2-3 weeks later, river valley also sprang to life. My gut feel is that it increase by 10 to 20% in one month. I was tempted to buy casa merah because still asking 650 to 700psf, it's new and going to TOP. There isn't any increase in pricing for CM at all. But was thinking of staying nearer to town so bought TR. Still monitor prices for a while and suddenly, those suburban also rise.. About 2 months delay. So my conclusion is that those suburban condos just hold well, did not fall too much but definitely not leading the rise. Prices just stay stagnant all the way but it's district 1 and to a lesser extend, district 2 that lead the increase. I might be wrong but this is what I feel from Jan - June when I was looking for a condo. You all can go URA to verify.

    Regarding the sail, the interior sucks. The toilet is a joke. Look like some coffeeshop toilet. Living room and bedrooms are fine except some units got pillar and some don't. Don't know why also. Was really interested at one point of time but wasn't prepared to pay like 1700psf for a bayview unit. 1 week later, it was like 1800psf and going up 100psf every week so gave up in the end. Now regret big time . Anyway, 2k is still cheap for the sail i feel. It's not only the CBD people who stay there. You just look around the sail. Although I don't stay there (and the interior sucks. look like some suburban condo design even they call themselves 6 stars), the location is fantastic. Shopping centres, MRT (think got 2 right?), IR, food, sea, bay etc.. Interior just put 20-30k in, and everything look 6 stars again. Seriously, if Sail is overpriced at 2k psf, Centro will be overpriced at 600psf. I don't stay at the sail, not an employee of CDL but this is my neutral comment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    i find it strange, why do u prime district owners always feel that rise in pty px must always be led by prime districts all the time? Could ths trend be slowly reversing whereby CCR pty pxs are stabalising while RCR n OCR are steadily increasing? IMO condos like Sail n MBR are artificially high n current pricing seems like forward pricing to me. Do those who bought the sail at 2kpsf seriously expect px to go up to 3kpsf when IR comes up? The Sail started off as a mass mkt condo in CCR n interior will always be mass mkt quality. The locatn for the sail may be fantastic to some but not everybody who goes to CBD for work likes to live in it.

  25. #115
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    Actually you can buy one.. Buy and sell to those 1200psf cocks lor

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    $750 psf I also won't buy because if AMK $750 psf I rather buy some place in D9, D10, D11 at $1100-$1300 psf. Avoid the perpetual jam on roads leading to city and west-wards (unless you work in AMK or nearby).

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    I think OCR has a strong support level currently at 6xxpsf. prime districts are more open to fluctuations as you have mentioned about the Sail, its peak was 3XXXpsf which i thought was absolutely ridiculous. Apart from location, don't valuators actually bother to look at interior to gauge whether the property is worth 2XXX or 3XXXpsf? They seem to place full emphasis on location and obliviate other factors for property pricing when it comes to the prime. At 2XXX or 3XXX psf, it is more befitting of a condo which is luxury class and The Sail clearly is not. It looks more like an office building in the same area and resembles little of a private residential apartment.

    It is so ironical that the government is now talking about capital gains tax from property and "punishing" property speculators when they deliberately leave valuations of private property to fluctuate madly. I would like to hear what forumers think about this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Yee
    Actually, I feel that many people are wrong about OCR leading the rise. When I am looking at my TR, the price is 800-900psf. Started looking since Jan. Slowly, I feel the prices rise. I was looking at sail/MBR, icon, RV condos, orchard and some better suburban like casa merah, kovan residence, metropolitan, one north and even lakeshore.

    What I feel is that prices suddenly rise at sail, MBR and to some extend, Icon. Then 2-3 weeks later, river valley also sprang to life. My gut feel is that it increase by 10 to 20% in one month. I was tempted to buy casa merah because still asking 650 to 700psf, it's new and going to TOP. There isn't any increase in pricing for CM at all. But was thinking of staying nearer to town so bought TR. Still monitor prices for a while and suddenly, those suburban also rise.. About 2 months delay. So my conclusion is that those suburban condos just hold well, did not fall too much but definitely not leading the rise. Prices just stay stagnant all the way but it's district 1 and to a lesser extend, district 2 that lead the increase. I might be wrong but this is what I feel from Jan - June when I was looking for a condo. You all can go URA to verify.

    Regarding the sail, the interior sucks. The toilet is a joke. Look like some coffeeshop toilet. Living room and bedrooms are fine except some units got pillar and some don't. Don't know why also. Was really interested at one point of time but wasn't prepared to pay like 1700psf for a bayview unit. 1 week later, it was like 1800psf and going up 100psf every week so gave up in the end. Now regret big time . Anyway, 2k is still cheap for the sail i feel. It's not only the CBD people who stay there. You just look around the sail. Although I don't stay there (and the interior sucks. look like some suburban condo design even they call themselves 6 stars), the location is fantastic. Shopping centres, MRT (think got 2 right?), IR, food, sea, bay etc.. Interior just put 20-30k in, and everything look 6 stars again. Seriously, if Sail is overpriced at 2k psf, Centro will be overpriced at 600psf. I don't stay at the sail, not an employee of CDL but this is my neutral comment.

  27. #117
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    I don't know what is OCR. But if you are talking about suburban, then yes. 600psf is a supporting level. And HDB is supporting this 600psf. So if HDB collapse, the whole property market will be in shit.

    From my experience on valuation from buying TR, banks usually see the past 2-3 months transactions. Take an average and probably offer another 10-15% extra in valuation. They have to do it because of business needs and sense. And they don't see interior. They let the market guage the psf, take an average and offer you max. 15% extra. Probably flooring and facing play a small part but won't make a big difference. Anyway, location is the main factor for a condo price. Design is second so location is still king.

    I don't agree with you on the sail. From outside, it looks really great. Tall, majestic with a very very nice curve. At night, the 2 pillar lights are so prominent and nice. When you walk in, the design is still great. I remember got some water thing at the main lobby. Nice! The lift lobby is still a class above my TR. When reach the corridor, still look great. But the moment the door open, look like ordinary condo. When reach the toilet, I thought I was in a HDB flat. The most distinctive thing I remember was the tiles even though I went there twice only. Really look like some coffeeshop toilet tiles. Facilities is normal for a city area condo. Same as my TR but should have more facilities since it brand itself 6 stars. But facilities and gym still look class enough. If sail don't look like a condo, wait till you see MBR. IMO, if my TR can fetch 1.2k psf, sail should be doubled. Don't own any unit at sail but it is a nice project in a nice location. Interior really need to put in some $. But if you can buy at 2000psf, don't tell me you cannot fork out 20k. We are talking about other condos in Centro thread. Hahahahahaaaa.

    Seems like Centro really sucks because we are comparing the psf with sail and the prime districts but centro is in such a lousy location. I pity those who fork out 1200psf because I paid 900+psf for my TR, freehold.



    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    I think OCR has a strong support level currently at 6xxpsf. prime districts are more open to fluctuations as you have mentioned about the Sail, its peak was 3XXXpsf which i thought was absolutely ridiculous. Apart from location, don't valuators actually bother to look at interior to gauge whether the property is worth 2XXX or 3XXXpsf? They seem to place full emphasis on location and obliviate other factors for property pricing when it comes to the prime. At 2XXX or 3XXX psf, it is more befitting of a condo which is luxury class and The Sail clearly is not. It looks more like an office building in the same area and resembles little of a private residential apartment.

    It is so ironical that the government is now talking about capital gains tax from property and "punishing" property speculators when they deliberately leave valuations of private property to fluctuate madly. I would like to hear what forumers think about this.

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Yee
    I don't know what is OCR. But if you are talking about suburban, then yes. 600psf is a supporting level. And HDB is supporting this 600psf. So if HDB collapse, the whole property market will be in shit.

    From my experience on valuation from buying TR, banks usually see the past 2-3 months transactions. Take an average and probably offer another 10-15% extra in valuation. They have to do it because of business needs and sense. And they don't see interior. They let the market guage the psf, take an average and offer you max. 15% extra. Probably flooring and facing play a small part but won't make a big difference. Anyway, location is the main factor for a condo price. Design is second so location is still king.

    I don't agree with you on the sail. From outside, it looks really great. Tall, majestic with a very very nice curve. At night, the 2 pillar lights are so prominent and nice. When you walk in, the design is still great. I remember got some water thing at the main lobby. Nice! The lift lobby is still a class above my TR. When reach the corridor, still look great. But the moment the door open, look like ordinary condo. When reach the toilet, I thought I was in a HDB flat. The most distinctive thing I remember was the tiles even though I went there twice only. Really look like some coffeeshop toilet tiles. Facilities is normal for a city area condo. Same as my TR but should have more facilities since it brand itself 6 stars. But facilities and gym still look class enough. If sail don't look like a condo, wait till you see MBR. IMO, if my TR can fetch 1.2k psf, sail should be doubled. Don't own any unit at sail but it is a nice project in a nice location. Interior really need to put in some $. But if you can buy at 2000psf, don't tell me you cannot fork out 20k. We are talking about other condos in Centro thread. Hahahahahaaaa.

    Seems like Centro really sucks because we are comparing the psf with sail and the prime districts but centro is in such a lousy location. I pity those who fork out 1200psf because I paid 900+psf for my TR, freehold.
    HDB price will not collapse anytime soon due to tight supply. Many times when asked in Parliament why HDB price is so high, the gov's answer: "spare a thought for those who bought in 1996 ... they still have negative asset"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Yee

    Seems like Centro really sucks because we are comparing the psf with sail and the prime districts but centro is in such a lousy location. I pity those who fork out 1200psf because I paid 900+psf for my TR, freehold.
    sorry what is TR ah???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Yee

    I don't agree with you on the sail. From outside, it looks really great. Tall, majestic with a very very nice curve. At night, the 2 pillar lights are so prominent and nice. When you walk in, the design is still great. I remember got some water thing at the main lobby. Nice! The lift lobby is still a class above my TR. When reach the corridor, still look great. But the moment the door open, look like ordinary condo. When reach the toilet, I thought I was in a HDB flat. The most distinctive thing I remember was the tiles even though I went there twice only. Really look like some coffeeshop toilet tiles. Facilities is normal for a city area condo. Same as my TR but should have more facilities since it brand itself 6 stars. But facilities and gym still look class enough. If sail don't look like a condo, wait till you see MBR. IMO, if my TR can fetch 1.2k psf, sail should be doubled. Don't own any unit at sail but it is a nice project in a nice location. Interior really need to put in some $. But if you can buy at 2000psf, don't tell me you cannot fork out 20k. We are talking about other condos in Centro thread. Hahahahahaaaa.
    for the Sail only bay view high floor is commanding best psf.. the rest is not so attractive liao & not touching 2k psf for now~

    Sail exterior is impressive indeed, it stands out for sure.. but MBR imo and MBS will be more luxurious and arguably better (although MBS will be blocked on all sides) as the new downtown takes shape..

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