Pavilion 11 Owners

[dmonddd]

definition of decent profits?

inflation, surrounding proeprties' prices.

my uncle bought one for $100k then...sell for $250k 20 years later, still decent profits? fren, i think you are lucky to have not seen the cycles.

and probably for property agents like you, your vision has to be short term....

[Bionic Leek]

There is a fallacy in the arguments being put up above regarding condo age. I'm going to explain things in a fairly broad scenario - meaning we assume that the macro economic situation stays on low to moderate growth throughout the years.

Guys, you should try to understand what i wrote before flaming. Of course if you buy a property at the most recent peak of the cycle and you try to sell it at the base of the very next economic crisis you can't get the price. I don't even know why you bother quantifying that. Its a given. But over time you'll still make money. The only question to ask is, how much time?

I'm only saying that given a flat growth over time, (which is exactly the kind of chart Singapore's growth has been since the dawn of the country) property prices will definitely trend upwards.

However, each peak over time gets higher, and each trough gets higher too. So prices WILL trend up, and what I was sharing will happen.

For example, this recession is what many called the mother of all recessions, and its impact was global and felt keenly by the most powerful economies in the world. Yet, at the lowest (march/april 09), the property market prices generally dipped to 2006 levels. We didn't even see 2004 kinds of lows, not to mention 199X whatever troughs. And it lasted all of 3 months before prices are now somewhere between 2007 and 2008 levels again. Mass market has already overtaken 2007, prime is around 2008 levels.

So in general, the trend about price movements I was trying to explain to people who were asking about pre/post TOP pricing and the ensuing premiums holds true.

Cheers

[andy]

Originally Posted by teddybear
But if you bought a CCR FH property and close eyes for 20 years (as has been the case for any past 20 years period), still make decent profit.

That is why the <5 yrs old FH condos in D10 (Esp around balmoral where recent launches are hitting 2000psf) that are going for 1300-1400psf are great bargains now. There are lots of upside in the medium to long term.

Gave you guys hint already.

Don't need to give hints lah. I know one property only $1000psf but has 7000sqft townhouse NEAR or can walk orchard. Guaranteed got upside within 5 years or 10 years but on the market for 6 months oredi...

Sillyporeans not blind or deaf No one wants to wait 5 or 10 years.

Also not many wants to put in large quantum, get low rent & wait long long. Ok can move in to stay and wait....but Sporeans also don't like old estates. Put in 100K to renovate also don't like. Lift lobbies, lifts must be new and also no smell. Must also have new swimming pool and new gym gearl. Old estates also lower height. Must go for high high tower block. Mickey mouse unit ok as long as no blockage or no sharp corners...better still can see Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta from balcony

[andy]

definition of decent profits?

inflation, surrounding proeprties' prices.

my uncle bought one for $100k then...sell for $250k 20 years later, still decent profits? fren, i think you are lucky to have not seen the cycles.

and probably for property agents like you, your vision has to be short term....

So true. Lots of single landed properties didn't want to sell or don't know how to let go when they had the opportunities. Now end up 30 stories condos to the left, right and back. Now have to wait another 30 years before the surrounding condos go enbloc.

Investments must be short or at most medium term.

[andy]

Guys, you should try to understand what i wrote before flaming. Of course if you buy a property at the most recent peak of the cycle and you try to sell it at the base of the very next economic crisis you can't get the price. I don't even know why you bother quantifying that. Its a given. But over time you'll still make money. The only question to ask is, how much time?

Cheers

No one is flaming.... There is no right or wrong concerning property investments. Some people buy a property and don't do anything. After 10 years it goes up by 50% they are happy. In between the property may dropped by 30% and as long as they don't sell they are ok.

What the guys are debating is this:
a) Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be able get 100% returns in 5 years. If you buy and sell at the right time you can get 150% returns.
b)Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be forced to sell (if you cannot keep the installments) at 30% less.

Be careful about the definition of making money. Singapore Inflation Rate from 1993 to 2008 = 24.3%. So if you buy a property in 1993 at 1m and sell in 2008 at 1.24m, you are not making money.

[Bionic Leek]

Would be really sad if anything I bought in 1993 isn't worth 30% more today. With the exception of HDB and super outer region housing.

[dmonddd]

No one is flaming.... There is no right or wrong concerning property investments. Some people buy a property and don't do anything. After 10 years it goes up by 50% they are happy. In between the property may dropped by 30% and as long as they don't sell they are ok.

What the guys are debating is this:
a) Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be able get 100% returns in 5 years. If you buy and sell at the right time you can get 150% returns.
b)Depending on where, when and what you buy you may be forced to sell (if you cannot keep the installments) at 30% less.

Be careful about the definition of making money. Singapore Inflation Rate from 1993 to 2008 = 24.3%. So if you buy a property in 1993 at 1m and sell in 2008 at 1.24m, you are not making money.

bull's eye.

[DKSG]

Eeerrmmm ... lets stick to the P11 discussion ok ?

Thanks.

[Bionic Leek]

Hmm driven past P11 a few times, very few people have moved in. Its quite surreal looking at the whole tower and seeing only 5 or 6 lit apartments with the hall windows thrown fully open. Quite cool.

I still think the units above 25th floor of the outside block are going to have a wonderful view.

DKSG, when is your open house?

[andy]

Hmm driven past P11 a few times, very few people have moved in. Its quite surreal looking at the whole tower and seeing only 5 or 6 lit apartments with the hall windows thrown fully open. Quite cool.

I still think the units above 25th floor of the outside block are going to have a wonderful view.

DKSG, when is your open house?

The $psf of the last couple of transactions seem to be creeping up. So what's the real deal since no one is moving in.

Everyone trying to sell?

[DKSG]

There are few people moving in before last week. Thats because of the 7th month.

This weekend, I think quite number moved in. This condo, the owner occupancy rate is relatively high (I think).

My place open house ? Eeerrmm ... u can private message me, I try to arrange. Renovation is more than 90% completed.

One important note to investors in this condo. PLEASE DO NOT hand your access card and keys to the agents. U can see agents with a stack of 10-20 access cards, with such a sight, do you think u can get good value ? Viewers go away with the impression that there are many many units available. And the agents will hold u ransom also.

Just my opinion. Cannot trust those agents 100%.

[echotrain]

So many people selling Pavillion 11? Better not have too many speculators. All it takes is for one to panic and the price will plunge.

But if your key is not in the stack how can pple choose your unit?

[DKSG]

For investors, carefully choose a dedicated agent.
Not those generic ones hanging around the place.

Hope this can be a lesson for newbies.

If u have many people viewing one unit, the unit's appeal will go up.
Thats why good agents arrange viewing by as many viewers as possible at nearly the same time.

If you have many units waiting for ONE person to view, then the unit's appeal would go down.

If you need more advice, can pm me. I am not too used to broadcast such best practices. I mention this this time round, coz it is happening in my condo. Though I not selling, but it pains me to see newbies making such mistakes. And agents capitalising on it like hungry vultures devouring their clients.

DKSG

[focus]

For investors, carefully choose a dedicated agent.
Not those generic ones hanging around the place.

Hope this can be a lesson for newbies.

If u have many people viewing one unit, the unit's appeal will go up.
Thats why good agents arrange viewing by as many viewers as possible at nearly the same time.

If you have many units waiting for ONE person to view, then the unit's appeal would go down.

If you need more advice, can pm me. I am not too used to broadcast such best practices. I mention this this time round, coz it is happening in my condo. Though I not selling, but it pains me to see newbies making such mistakes. And agents capitalising on it like hungry vultures devouring their clients.

DKSG

So how does having a dedicated agent help to mitigate the MORE people viewing units and Less People Viewing Units example you were talking about?

[DKSG]

In property sale, the quality of the viewing is more important than the quantity.

Agents like to tell you the story that if 100 view it, the chances of you selling it is 10 times better than 10 people viewing it.

But from my experience, this is certainly not the case.

I once have got 2 units on sale at the same time. Not sure if this is apple to apple comparison, but just to illustration.

One unit is available for viewing quite freely as the tenant is local and doesnt really travel. The other one, viewing is very difficult as tenant always travel.

At the end of the day, many got to view the easy one (easily 30 viewings) and the difficult one ? After 5 viewings, it got sold!

Agents must help you screen the viewers (esp if the unit is tenanted), else the tenant will soon find all sorts of reasons to stop the viewing (if I am the tenant, I will also do that).

Those who are very serious about buying your property will get to the unit. Those who browse browse, you should screen it out.

What I mean in the previous post is : I rather have 3 groups of people viewing my unit within the 20 mins range, so that they get to "meet" each other. Rather than have 8 viewers coming at one hour interval, making my unit like 7-11. Hope this clarifies. You may not agree with my thinking but thats fine, each has their own strategy, I am just sharing mine.

However, pls indicate if you are an agent. If you are, I do not wish to continue with answering your queries.

DKSG

[focus]

Ok.. understood. You are saying that a dedicated agent can create the kind of atmosphere whereby prospects will see other prospects so they kind of leave with the impression that it is a hot property and they need to decide fast.

I'm not cut out to be a agent.. if not I will definitely enjoyed being a property agent..Can always be the first to pick up the bargain from the owner.

[DKSG]

Hi Focus,

The good news is ... there are more good buys than agents in the market !
So there is still a very good chance to get a nice unit at the right price.

I got my P11 unit (abv 26 floor) at less than 1,050 psf !

Cheers!
DKSG

[focus]

Hi Focus,

The good news is ... there are more good buys than agents in the market !
So there is still a very good chance to get a nice unit at the right price.

I got my P11 unit (abv 26 floor) at less than 1,050 psf !

Cheers!
DKSG

GOOD BUY! How you negotiate? Everytime I ask how low they can go .. they always cannot negotiate one.. even after you leave and wait for a week.. they still cannot negotiate.. like The Seaview.. locked in on #19-09 when it was $1200 around June.. 1 week later, it is asking $1400 ..and just recently..saw forum post it was transacted above $1400.. sheeze..

[richie$$$]

agents forgot wht they supposed 2 do. close d deal n nt push up price
collect cheque n seller 2 sign on option n pass on 2 buyer but they flash cheque n get buyers to kill each othr. or some will collect fm buyers commission also altho acting 4 sellers.

if there's evidence, how can we charge them in court?

[teddybear]

Congratulations! Last transacted $1380 psf. You "fatt" lor!

Hi Focus,

The good news is ... there are more good buys than agents in the market !
So there is still a very good chance to get a nice unit at the right price.

I got my P11 unit (abv 26 floor) at less than 1,050 psf !

Cheers!
DKSG

[gemstone]

agents forgot wht they supposed 2 do. close d deal n nt push up price
collect cheque n seller 2 sign on option n pass on 2 buyer but they flash cheque n get buyers to kill each othr. or some will collect fm buyers commission also altho acting 4 sellers.

if there's evidence, how can we charge them in court?

You should be asking your lawyer

[andy]

Congratulations! Last transacted $1380 psf. You "fatt" lor!

Yes I saw that today as well eventhough this is above #28.

I believe the value of this development has been creeping up.

However I'm still baffled if it is the views or is the location at the edge of Novena/Balestier the new D10.

[jlrx]

Yes I saw that today as well eventhough this is above #28.

I believe the value of this development has been creeping up.

However I'm still baffled if it is the views or is the location at the edge of Novena/Balestier the new D10.

It's a actually a bargain, considering that 99-year condos in HDB areas like Centro @ Ang Mo Kio has hit $1,289 psf and TreVista @ Toa Payoh $1,222 psf.

What is $1,380 psf for a freehold property in District 11?

I think it will go higher.

[mcmlxxvi]

It's a actually a bargain, considering that 99-year condos in HDB areas like Centro @ Ang Mo Kio has hit $1,289 psf and TreVista @ Toa Payoh $1,222 psf.

What is $1,380 psf for a freehold property in District 11?

I think it will go higher.

No doubt as property owners, we all celebrate the 1200psf of Centro. However, we all know that this unrealistic high price is due to FEO super holding power whom until today has 7-10 year old projects DEVELOPER UNITS still available for sale and simply are unwilling to lower asking prices to clear inventory.

As such, FEO projects should not be used for gauging true market value, especially when in comparison with other developers.

That said, as property owner of D12 I also wish it could be 1250psf hahaha if D11 is 1380.

[DKSG]

Most developers can hold up to 3 years.

Its not only FEO who is holding. CapLand held on to the Rivergate site for so many years then launch.

In Singapore, the property market is controlled by a few players only. And not surprisingly, all of them want prices to go up. Throw in the government, who want prices to be stable (ie not going down, but also not up too sharply). Guess what is the result ?

Land is still a very scarce commodity in Sg. In time, less and less % of the island will be 'undeveloped'. In fact, look around, most of the areas right outside Orchard, Newton, Nassim areas are all developed already. There is really NO MORE land in these areas anymore, unless u demolish some buildings to make way for taller buildings.

Just my humble opinion.

[Newbie Homebuyer]

Just noticed that there is actually another gate (both for cars and pedestrians) into P11 along Minbu Road. There's a makeshift security post (old man with a table) inside.

Anyone knows if that is a gate that can used day to day (is there some autosensor to open if you are driving in? or will the security guard open from inside?)? Or will it be closed in the future and only open for emergencies like fire etc...

I still notice that outside the main front gate along akyab road has a green railing on the right side and a cement ledge on the left... Weird....

[DKSG]

I think they told me that the back gate will be opened for residents, but not car. I think they open the back gate to let the rubbish vehicle to come in to collect rubbish.

[bargain hunter]

in last sat's classifieds:

3rm 1485sq ft #2x, city view, (20 more choice units) 4.5k up.
2rm 958sq ft 3.8k.

advert been running for months still no takers?

[DKSG]

There are quite a few units holding out for sale at very high prices ...
These owners are reeling in big profits from the sale, so they are not so desperate to rent out their units.

Agents told me many potential buyers for P11 are looking for owner stay, so having a rented or unrented unit makes some differences in the chances for sale ...

I quite agree, if you are waiting for a 200 or 250K profit, what is $4.5K for a few months ?

My downstairs unit just got bought and the new neighbour is moving in in 1-2 mths ...

DKSG

[Riverund]

Seems not many units, esp those on stack 3 and 7, are still up for rental..

Surprised that rentals are still down. Heard the best rates are 6k per mth??