need advise

[firestarter]

purchased a tenanted unit whose lease is going to expire just before completion. Am i entitled to do an inspection of the house between the end of the tenancy and completion? Coz i am worried that the cost of any repair as a result of the tenancy being passed on to me when the deposit the tenant paid to the current owner is suppose to take care of this .. when raised to the current owner, he asked to put in the request via my lawyer to arrange .. is this possible? Also, have asked for the floor plan of the unit from the owner, and likewise was asked to go via my lawyer .. is the normal when a simple request from the owner to the management office would suffice ??

these additional request thru the lawyer .. will they incur any additional lawyer fees??? coz my lawyer fees are covered up to 2.5k by the bank .. any additional will have to be borne by me ..

please advise ..

TIA

[tericia]

purchased a tenanted unit whose lease is going to expire just before completion. Am i entitled to do an inspection of the house between the end of the tenancy and completion? Coz i am worried that the cost of any repair as a result of the tenancy being passed on to me when the deposit the tenant paid to the current owner is suppose to take care of this .. when raised to the current owner, he asked to put in the request via my lawyer to arrange .. is this possible? Also, have asked for the floor plan of the unit from the owner, and likewise was asked to go via my lawyer .. is the normal when a simple request from the owner to the management office would suffice ??

these additional request thru the lawyer .. will they incur any additional lawyer fees??? coz my lawyer fees are covered up to 2.5k by the bank .. any additional will have to be borne by me ..

please advise ..

TIA

based on my clients and/ or my own experience:

1) you're entitled to inspect the house before completion regardless tenant or not

2) when you inspect the house you're advised to take pictures and use an inventory list for fixtures and non fixtures. If anything is spoilt, you can claim from tenant deposit when they move out. The pictures can justify the claims.

3) the deposit should be passed onto you, the lawyer should arrange it automatically but to put your mind at ease, call the lawyer again and again about issues that bug you till you feel that they are handled.

4) call and call your agent until everything you want handled is handled as well. I advise you to make sure everything you ask the agent and lawyer to do to be in black and white, either through email or sms. Cc yourself so you can prove that request was put through.

5) floor plans usually just go manangement office to get. Bring along a copy of your signed option, they will give you a copy for a small fee (photocopy charge). You may also start arranging for cards and transponders if the seller has passed some over to you already by replacing any old ones.

6) make sure keys that you can't change are correct, example letterbox keys. I've incidents where seller flew off and buyer can't open letter box. Caused him a lot of trouble finding it and asking the management office until he finally just asked a lock smith to do something about it. Amount not much but made the moving in unpleasant

7) you should not incur any additional fees by asking the lawyer to do the things which are normal. My advice to you is next time when you buy or sell a house, please use a better lawyer. For example, i use one from Lee and Lee. He is excellent because he goes through a check list for everything and he sits there and ask if we understood everything on the check list. If we didn't he will patiently sit there and explain everything to us. He was the one who raised the tenancy in common and joint tenancy issue to me and my wife when he was about to submit in the purchase, telling us what are the pros and cons. You may hear others say they are very expensive. The truth is they are very expensive, but they make a $500,000 upwards purchase safe and happy for you. When anything goes wrong, i know they're gonna give the other party's lawyer (who usually is some neighbourhood lawyer or from toa payoh. No offence but i've to keep checking back with them on my purchases and sometimes they forget things, sometimes they ask me questions that make me doubt whether they know their law) a good kick in the ba^%s.

Hope that helps.

[firestarter]

based on my clients and/ or my own experience:

1) you're entitled to inspect the house before completion regardless tenant or not

2) when you inspect the house you're advised to take pictures and use an inventory list for fixtures and non fixtures. If anything is spoilt, you can claim from tenant deposit when they move out. The pictures can justify the claims.

3) the deposit should be passed onto you, the lawyer should arrange it automatically but to put your mind at ease, call the lawyer again and again about issues that bug you till you feel that they are handled.

4) call and call your agent until everything you want handled is handled as well. I advise you to make sure everything you ask the agent and lawyer to do to be in black and white, either through email or sms. Cc yourself so you can prove that request was put through.

5) floor plans usually just go manangement office to get. Bring along a copy of your signed option, they will give you a copy for a small fee (photocopy charge). You may also start arranging for cards and transponders if the seller has passed some over to you already by replacing any old ones.

6) make sure keys that you can't change are correct, example letterbox keys. I've incidents where seller flew off and buyer can't open letter box. Caused him a lot of trouble finding it and asking the management office until he finally just asked a lock smith to do something about it. Amount not much but made the moving in unpleasant

7) you should not incur any additional fees by asking the lawyer to do the things which are normal. My advice to you is next time when you buy or sell a house, please use a better lawyer. For example, i use one from Lee and Lee. He is excellent because he goes through a check list for everything and he sits there and ask if we understood everything on the check list. If we didn't he will patiently sit there and explain everything to us. He was the one who raised the tenancy in common and joint tenancy issue to me and my wife when he was about to submit in the purchase, telling us what are the pros and cons. You may hear others say they are very expensive. The truth is they are very expensive, but they make a $500,000 upwards purchase safe and happy for you. When anything goes wrong, i know they're gonna give the other party's lawyer (who usually is some neighbourhood lawyer or from toa payoh. No offence but i've to keep checking back with them on my purchases and sometimes they forget things, sometimes they ask me questions that make me doubt whether they know their law) a good kick in the ba^%s.

Hope that helps.

thanks tericia, very comprehensive advise .. very much appreciated ... gonna chase and chase my lawyer .. get them to wake up their idea liao ...

[nana]

I need some advice too:-
I bot a new apt TOP end 2009. I m in a dilemma - ie to SELL my current 2 bedder or RENT out?
To sell - supply>demand hence cannot fetch a good price

To rent - stay only 3 yrs, it's pretty new with nice ID & furnishing, worry that tenant will not take care of my Furniture&Fixtures.

Pls share your experience of renting out your apt (eg things to take note, engage agent, contract etc).

[tericia]

I need some advice too:-
I bot a new apt TOP end 2009. I m in a dilemma - ie to SELL my current 2 bedder or RENT out?
To sell - supply>demand hence cannot fetch a good price

To rent - stay only 3 yrs, it's pretty new with nice ID & furnishing, worry that tenant will not take care of my Furniture&Fixtures.

Pls share your experience of renting out your apt (eg things to take note, engage agent, contract etc).

*based on my clients and/ or my own experience:


1) you should consider asking for a high monthly rent. Usually the renters who turn up to view after knowing what the rent is are better quality when the rent amount's high.

2) it's also good to state upfront that you want 2 months deposit. This is to filter out those who have the means to sustain the rent when the economy down turns. 2 months of deposit's also a high amount of $ that would be able to take care of any serious damages if it occurs while the tenant is staying there

3) before your tenant move in, you should do a video or photo taking session to document how your unit looks like before he moved in. After he move out you should do the same if you intend to use his deposit to offset any damage

4) if you are afraid of spoilage, do rent the place out unfurnished. This logically will reduce the risk if you do not have for him to damage

5) do not accept any tenants that request that they move in first then settle any outstanding debts they have with you (example they say they will only have enough for the 2 months deposit when they get their bonus in a month's time). My experience with these tenants usually turns very sour as i find they are not trustworthy and trust in a rental situation is very very important

6) you can engage an agent or you can don't. It is your choice. It is not difficult to call SPH 62899988 and book to advertise your unit for rental and pay by credit card over the phone. In this way, you can filter the people who call to view your unit

7) for the agreement, you can draft a standard agreement on your own, which i usually do (can google) or you can get an agent to do up one for you. Of course, if you have an agent then to make the commission worth, you should make him do more than just settle the contract. You can also approach your lawyer to do up one. Your choice

8) standard market practice for housing agents is tenant pays his agent and you pay yours when the rent is $2500 or less. If the amount is higher than that, then the renter's agent collects from your agent (if i'm not wrong, it should be half each). If tenant has no agent then he pays your agent and if rent is $2500 or less, then agent gets from both parties

9) contract should state clearly what are the things tenant cannot do and what happens if he violates those terms. Penalty can be negotiated or decided by you and agreed by tenant. Tenant also has the right to state terms of violation by you, example you chase him out earlier than expected due to no fault of his.

10) you need to balance between renting out and whether you feel comfortable with the renter. Most times if you don't feel comfortable, then whatever the amount, don't rent cuz you'll be worried all the time. Got $ but you won't be in peace.

[nana]

Tericia,
thank u for your insights, some points u mentioned nvr cross my mind. Really appreciate.
I guess I can still sell my apt down the road even if it's tenanted? I ever saw advert that says "Sell with tenant".

[tericia]

Tericia,
thank u for your insights, some points u mentioned nvr cross my mind. Really appreciate.
I guess I can still sell my apt down the road even if it's tenanted? I ever saw advert that says "Sell with tenant".

i will try not to if possible to sell with tenancy. Usually units sold with tenancy will limit the number of people interested because

1) those buy to stay will shun cuz they need a place to move in

2) investors in singapore not as many as stayers. Those who buy to invest will start calculating whether the existing tenancy can cover their mortgage. If not, they also will not consider

3) usually the first perception from people is tenanted units are in terrible shape. So these will not entertain the thought of viewing

4) length of tenancy (if there is 1 or more years left) will also exclude some with existing plans that require them to move in within 1 year or less

5) people usually prefer units they don't have to renovate so tenanted units usually give them the impression they still have to spend cash to renovate and wait to move in after tenant move out. So these cash strap ones will also not consider

so i will suggest that you do some homework about your project first. Turn over rate for rental in your project preferable should be high for you to avoid problems when selling so in event you can't sell, you still can rent out again. I've clients who missed the boat to sell at the height of 2007 (small project in district 10) because they have a tenant renting from them at 2006 prices (which when they sign they thought the rent is very high already) and people shun their units due to this reason. Now, the tenant is gone and they are stuck with unit can't sell and rent has gone down.

[Douk]

how about having a exit clause in the tenant agreement.

i will try not to if possible to sell with tenancy. Usually units sold with tenancy will limit the number of people interested because

1) those buy to stay will shun cuz they need a place to move in

2) investors in singapore not as many as stayers. Those who buy to invest will start calculating whether the existing tenancy can cover their mortgage. If not, they also will not consider

3) usually the first perception from people is tenanted units are in terrible shape. So these will not entertain the thought of viewing

4) length of tenancy (if there is 1 or more years left) will also exclude some with existing plans that require them to move in within 1 year or less

5) people usually prefer units they don't have to renovate so tenanted units usually give them the impression they still have to spend cash to renovate and wait to move in after tenant move out. So these cash strap ones will also not consider

so i will suggest that you do some homework about your project first. Turn over rate for rental in your project preferable should be high for you to avoid problems when selling so in event you can't sell, you still can rent out again. I've clients who missed the boat to sell at the height of 2007 (small project in district 10) because they have a tenant renting from them at 2006 prices (which when they sign they thought the rent is very high already) and people shun their units due to this reason. Now, the tenant is gone and they are stuck with unit can't sell and rent has gone down.

[cheerful]

wow ... tericia, u sound like an expert ... v comprehensive sharing.

Someone mentioned if possible to have a clause should you wish to sell during the boom time .. i.e. can ask the tenant to "get out" probably with some compensation??

so i will suggest that you do some homework about your project first. Turn over rate for rental in your project preferable should be high for you to avoid problems when selling so in event you can't sell, you still can rent out again. I've clients who missed the boat to sell at the height of 2007 (small project in district 10) because they have a tenant renting from them at 2006 prices (which when they sign they thought the rent is very high already) and people shun their units due to this reason. Now, the tenant is gone and they are stuck with unit can't sell and rent has gone down.

[tericia]

wow ... tericia, u sound like an expert ... v comprehensive sharing.

Someone mentioned if possible to have a clause should you wish to sell during the boom time .. i.e. can ask the tenant to "get out" probably with some compensation??

the standard clause usually states that you can ask tenant to move out with one or more months of notice. So you can sell the unit first then ask the tenant to leave.

Also make sure to include in the clause that you have the right to bring new tenants or buyers in, in the event you wish to sell or rent out to another batch of people if their rent contract ends. Some tenants are not willing to open the doors if you do not state it upfront so that may create problems for you.

The standard contracts that your agent or lawyer uses should have these included. If they do not, i advise that you seek 2nd opinion.

Best regards.

[Douk]

If the tenancy agreement does not have a exit clause, if one party wish to terminate the tenancy, he has to compensate the remaining months., is this true ?

the standard clause usually states that you can ask tenant to move out with one or more months of notice. So you can sell the unit first then ask the tenant to leave.

Also make sure to include in the clause that you have the right to bring new tenants or buyers in, in the event you wish to sell or rent out to another batch of people if their rent contract ends. Some tenants are not willing to open the doors if you do not state it upfront so that may create problems for you.

The standard contracts that your agent or lawyer uses should have these included. If they do not, i advise that you seek 2nd opinion.

Best regards.

[tericia]

If the tenancy agreement does not have a exit clause, if one party wish to terminate the tenancy, he has to compensate the remaining months., is this true ?

it depends on whether the termination is within the minimum period that the contract states the tenant can stay put. Usually after the minimum period, a reasonable time line can be use to ask the tenant to leave.

In my personal view, 2 months is a reasonable time line. If the contract does not state explicitly that there needs to be compensation for the remaining months, then i would not even consider it. You can give 2 months notice for them to find another place.

I would suggest that you read the contract carefully first before signing the agreement. My experience is agents are usually so eager to close the rent, they themselves also do not know what are the terms.

When i rent out my units, i also use an agent but even then, the people who call, the people who view, what are the terms, what's in the contract, i've some control over it as well so as to know what will happen when things go wrong. I advise that you to consider doing that

When things turn sour, parties start shouting to sue or go to court, but the main thing's suing and going to court is a very expensive business. If your lawyer or agent is blur, then your cost goes very high as they tend to forget things or drag things. So better if everything upfront is taken care off and usually the better ones do that for you so need to balance between cost and having someone good on your side if things don't work out.

When i buy, sell, or rent, i would double check, triple check and for my clients quadruple check that all are in order. No one can take care of you better than yourself.

These are my personal views and experience. Best regards.

[firestarter]

i will try not to if possible to sell with tenancy. Usually units sold with tenancy will limit the number of people interested because

1) those buy to stay will shun cuz they need a place to move in

2) investors in singapore not as many as stayers. Those who buy to invest will start calculating whether the existing tenancy can cover their mortgage. If not, they also will not consider

3) usually the first perception from people is tenanted units are in terrible shape. So these will not entertain the thought of viewing

4) length of tenancy (if there is 1 or more years left) will also exclude some with existing plans that require them to move in within 1 year or less

5) people usually prefer units they don't have to renovate so tenanted units usually give them the impression they still have to spend cash to renovate and wait to move in after tenant move out. So these cash strap ones will also not consider

so i will suggest that you do some homework about your project first. Turn over rate for rental in your project preferable should be high for you to avoid problems when selling so in event you can't sell, you still can rent out again. I've clients who missed the boat to sell at the height of 2007 (small project in district 10) because they have a tenant renting from them at 2006 prices (which when they sign they thought the rent is very high already) and people shun their units due to this reason. Now, the tenant is gone and they are stuck with unit can't sell and rent has gone down.

agreed, i was one of those that got turned off by the tenancy of a shortlisted unit .. in fact seller just renewed his lease with his tenant for 2years at a ridiculously low rental of $2k for a 3 bedder !!! total turn off ... as i was buying for own stay ..