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Thread: Asking Price Above bank valuation?

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    Default Asking Price Above bank valuation?

    I need help. I saw some places that I like but bank valuation is about 50 - 80k less than valuation. Agents are given reason such as bank over conservation in their valuation. In the past when market is good bank give higher valuation, now they give lower, hence owner asking lower too....

    give an example. mirage tower asking last time was at 1100 psf and bank was able to give matching valuation...now asking about 1000 psf but bank giving say 850 psf.... If I have bought in the past I would have been able to get higher loan....now I get lower loan but cheaper price.... and agent keep saying that if I wait in a few months, i can get higher loan but then prices would have rise....

    I always have the opinion that units never transact above bank valuation but nowadays bank seems to give low valuation...any expert opinion?

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    I'm not an expert but it could be due to sellers asking for an unrealistic high price (trying their luck) due to the recent stock market euphoria.

    Wait for stock market to quiet down and make a counter offer based on bank valuation.

    The general bearish views articulated elsewhere in this forum is that there is absolutely no hurry to buy now.

    But to balance your perspective, do yourself a favour and read through both bullish and bearish posts here... they are all very interesting.


    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    I need help. I saw some places that I like but bank valuation is about 50 - 80k less than valuation. Agents are given reason such as bank over conservation in their valuation. In the past when market is good bank give higher valuation, now they give lower, hence owner asking lower too....

    give an example. mirage tower asking last time was at 1100 psf and bank was able to give matching valuation...now asking about 1000 psf but bank giving say 850 psf.... If I have bought in the past I would have been able to get higher loan....now I get lower loan but cheaper price.... and agent keep saying that if I wait in a few months, i can get higher loan but then prices would have rise....

    I always have the opinion that units never transact above bank valuation but nowadays bank seems to give low valuation...any expert opinion?
    I'm a potential buyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    I need help. I saw some places that I like but bank valuation is about 50 - 80k less than valuation. Agents are given reason such as bank over conservation in their valuation. In the past when market is good bank give higher valuation, now they give lower, hence owner asking lower too....

    give an example. mirage tower asking last time was at 1100 psf and bank was able to give matching valuation...now asking about 1000 psf but bank giving say 850 psf.... If I have bought in the past I would have been able to get higher loan....now I get lower loan but cheaper price.... and agent keep saying that if I wait in a few months, i can get higher loan but then prices would have rise....

    I always have the opinion that units never transact above bank valuation but nowadays bank seems to give low valuation...any expert opinion?
    always take wat agents say with big pinch of salt ~

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    Your situation is not unique. Almost most property now owners are aking above bank valuation. I doubt there are many units asking at valuation px. My guess is bank valuation will catch up soon, when the recently transacted higher prices caveat are lodged. But again, by then, i am not sure whether owners will be asking even higher prices.

    But some banks do match up when u show them your OTP, depending on your financial standing.

    Stock mkt direction can change very fast within days or even within a day. But Property being less liquid, therefore prices does not change direction as fast as stock mkt. It takes a while before any trend is reversed. Good luck

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    2007, Sail studio bank match 3200psf. People buy like crazy cause bank match mah.
    2009, Sail studio bank match less then 2000psf. But you can buy slightly above 2000psf.

    Think about it. What are those people that bought in 2007 thinking now.

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    Hi property owner, that's what agents saying....that now can buy much cheaper cos valuation lower and they also say that if i wait, valuation will catch up but that means I'll pay more.... so not sure if I should buy now or wait...
    sign. life is full of making decisions....some easy and some really tough and affects a lifetime.


    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    2007, Sail studio bank match 3200psf. People buy like crazy cause bank match mah.
    2009, Sail studio bank match less then 2000psf. But you can buy slightly above 2000psf.

    Think about it. What are those people that bought in 2007 thinking now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    Hi property owner, that's what agents saying....that now can buy much cheaper cos valuation lower and they also say that if i wait, valuation will catch up but that means I'll pay more.... so not sure if I should buy now or wait...
    sign. life is full of making decisions....some easy and some really tough and affects a lifetime.
    Do you know why when you buy sub sale, bank don't match but if you go for new launch, they match!

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    It's always much much harder to time property compare to share. All we see is caveats lodged. By the time you know the bottom or peak. One word for buyers or sellers. You miss the boat. I have a friend, In 2007, was offered a good price, but it's 10/20psf away. He want to hit 3000psf, so he told the agent off. He sold his unit in Feb 09. 13xxpsf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    Hi property owner, that's what agents saying....that now can buy much cheaper cos valuation lower and they also say that if i wait, valuation will catch up but that means I'll pay more.... so not sure if I should buy now or wait...
    sign. life is full of making decisions....some easy and some really tough and affects a lifetime.

    Hi Lyn ,

    U interest in Mirage tower?
    Which floor may I know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    Hi property owner, that's what agents saying....that now can buy much cheaper cos valuation lower and they also say that if i wait, valuation will catch up but that means I'll pay more.... so not sure if I should buy now or wait...
    sign. life is full of making decisions....some easy and some really tough and affects a lifetime.
    Pure sales talk crap... trying to pressure u into comitting....

    Valuation is at 850psf... Seller is asking for 1000psf... So you got to ask yourself what is so compeling about that particular property that warrants you to fork out the additional 150psf in CASH (assuming worst case scenario of Bank is not willing to match)....

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    Do you want to test if it is the agent or the owner who is holding up?

    Very easy, pen a letter and attached it with a check. Then get the agent to present it to the owner. Ask the owner to sign and acknowledge. See if it is the agent being greedy, or the owner is holding out...

    anyway, buy house is as such... as seller, if i am not a firesale, i am free to ask for whatever price i want.. above or below the valuation. Buyers can decide if they want to pay or walk away.

    Anyway, trading above valuation is nothing new.


    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    I need help. I saw some places that I like but bank valuation is about 50 - 80k less than valuation. Agents are given reason such as bank over conservation in their valuation. In the past when market is good bank give higher valuation, now they give lower, hence owner asking lower too....

    give an example. mirage tower asking last time was at 1100 psf and bank was able to give matching valuation...now asking about 1000 psf but bank giving say 850 psf.... If I have bought in the past I would have been able to get higher loan....now I get lower loan but cheaper price.... and agent keep saying that if I wait in a few months, i can get higher loan but then prices would have rise....

    I always have the opinion that units never transact above bank valuation but nowadays bank seems to give low valuation...any expert opinion?

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    No, I am not keen on mirage tower. This was an example agent quoted cos bank valued in apr @ 800 only....

    with stock market rising, @ valuation will be hard cos bank is not yet catching up.

    anyway at this time if can find units @ valuation do you think it's a good deal, considering the market has gone up and bank is conservative? Any good advice?

    Another question, ever property sold way below valuation say for a 1.2 mil house, sell @ 1mil? sorry for silly question if some of you think so....but my point is why dun the seller ask for valuation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acer
    Hi Lyn ,

    U interest in Mirage tower?
    Which floor may I know?

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    As mention in the posting, if you have a roof over your head at the current moment & there isn't any urgent compelling reason to buy now, then why the hurry?

    Its a fact that rental yield is low and with the impending supply, doesn't look like its going to head up anytime. Me not a property investor, but if property prices are not analyse using rental yield, then I dun know how are the banks evaluating it (maybe some bro & sis can kindly enlighten).

    As for demand, its true that there are lots of people rushing to grap their dream property and heading for viewing with cheque in hand, however, also mention in the post, does it mean that people do, we must follow?

    Really worth only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    No, I am not keen on mirage tower. This was an example agent quoted cos bank valued in apr @ 800 only....

    with stock market rising, @ valuation will be hard cos bank is not yet catching up.

    anyway at this time if can find units @ valuation do you think it's a good deal, considering the market has gone up and bank is conservative? Any good advice?

    Another question, ever property sold way below valuation say for a 1.2 mil house, sell @ 1mil? sorry for silly question if some of you think so....but my point is why dun the seller ask for valuation?
    It is all from a marketing point of view... when times are bad, i woudl ask for below valuation to make it seems more "worth it" for you.

    When times are good, i try to ask for some value above valuation...

    Premium and discounts... works the same way...

    and... no.. it is not a silly question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn

    Another question, ever property sold way below valuation say for a 1.2 mil house, sell @ 1mil? sorry for silly question if some of you think so....but my point is why dun the seller ask for valuation?
    There are various reasons.

    1) Seller wanted to sell at valuation but the agent not able to find any buyer to commit.
    2) Seller desperate.
    3) Never occur to the seller to ask for valuation and rely on agent recommendation.
    etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackswan
    As mention in the posting, if you have a roof over your head at the current moment & there isn't any urgent compelling reason to buy now, then why the hurry?

    Its a fact that rental yield is low and with the impending supply, doesn't look like its going to head up anytime. Me not a property investor, but if property prices are not analyse using rental yield, then I dun know how are the banks evaluating it (maybe some bro & sis can kindly enlighten).

    As for demand, its true that there are lots of people rushing to grap their dream property and heading for viewing with cheque in hand, however, also mention in the post, does it mean that people do, we must follow?

    Really worth only.
    Actually i beg to differ. Everyone has a different reason to buy or to hold. It does not means that as long as you have a roof over your head, therefore you don't have an urgency to buy.

    Given that if subprime did not happen, a lot of the buyers that has gotten in the last 2 months may never even be able to afford a private property. You must also know that inflation are the most common reason for pricing one out of the property market.

    Yield is the most common way of valuing commercial properties. However, for residential, yes, Yield can be part of the equation. But, it is also the potential of the site. What is the current GFA, what is the future GFA. What is the master plan from URA for the next 5 years...etc..etc...

    These factors have some hold on the valuation, and that figure in the valuation also in turn affect the rental value and yield.

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    Hi Blackswan,

    I am currently staying with my parent and hope to get a place for own stay. I am in no hurry but my main concern is inflation which I believe will come and will come hard. Hence, I am looking for a place for stay and for capital gain. Not really from a yield perspective thou' it's a bonus to get good yield in the event that i rent it out. currently, i am looking more for own stay.

    Hi pweesng,
    to your post on GFA, how do you know if the area is already fully built up? can you advice? I am a property novice.
    vbmenu_register("postmenu_56580", true);

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    I am currently staying with my parent and hope to get a place for own stay. I am in no hurry but my main concern is inflation which I believe will come and will come hard. Hence, I am looking for a place for stay and for capital gain. Not really from a yield perspective thou' it's a bonus to get good yield in the event that i rent it out. currently, i am looking more for own stay.
    It's hard to predict if property in Singapore is still a good hedge against high inflation. We have not seen high inflation for a while now.

    Don't forget that most of us will (need to) borrow money to finance the property purchase.

    Should there be high inflation or even hyperinflation, interest rates may be raised to a level that may wipe out any gain in property prices. Hyperinflation is a whole different can of worms with scenarios that even great economists can't agree on.

    That said, economists like Paul Krugman have said that hyperinflation is unlikely to happen and shouldn't be a great concern.

    So, with low interest rates here and lots of cash-rich HDB upgraders, people with bullish sentiments will say NOW is the best time to buy a property!
    I'm a potential buyer.

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    No use lah. No reason for owner to sign and acknowledge unless he accepted the OTP and cheque. Also, the agent can sign and you are non the wiser because you have never seen the owner's signature anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by pweesng
    Do you want to test if it is the agent or the owner who is holding up?

    Very easy, pen a letter and attached it with a check. Then get the agent to present it to the owner. Ask the owner to sign and acknowledge. See if it is the agent being greedy, or the owner is holding out...

    anyway, buy house is as such... as seller, if i am not a firesale, i am free to ask for whatever price i want.. above or below the valuation. Buyers can decide if they want to pay or walk away.

    Anyway, trading above valuation is nothing new.

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    Default Valuations - a guide and no more

    Hi,

    In the end, it all comes down to what the seller thinks is a fair price for the property. There's enough data from URA caveats and propertyguru type sites for sellers to make an informed judgement on a price they are comfortable paying.

    This means that bank valuations (from the same people who got us the boom & the bust & keep revising forecasts) is never the final word on what the price can/should/will be.

    Bank valuations are used to 1) figure out how much loan we can realistically secure, and 2) how much over/under our budget that is 3) negotiating point with the seller

    So far, I haven't seen a single agent or a buyer who has a presented me with a written bank valuation (even on an email) for the property they have put on sale. It's always been the other way around when I have taken emails from my bankers to them(!). And then you will hear comments like ' valuations haven't caught up' or 'your bank is multinational, very conservative, not in touch with local sentiments(!!)'

    The fact that so many people are now ready to sell clearly indicates that the sellers don't think the boom will last. And the fact that buyers are now rushing in to buy only reinforces this belief.

    I don't see why I should top up on my bank valuation (if I agree with it to begin with). The boom's over. I have currently extended my lease at a 40% lower rental than last year, and more than happy to wait.

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    Private properties always sell below valuation unless there is something unique about the property that buyer die die must buy above valuation in order to snatch the property. While buying below valuation doesn't mean that you are buying cheap, buying above valuation simply means you are paying too much (simple as that). So, resist all the temptations by agents about valuation catch up etc. If the property is worth that much, the valuation will always be that much or even higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    I need help. I saw some places that I like but bank valuation is about 50 - 80k less than valuation. Agents are given reason such as bank over conservation in their valuation. In the past when market is good bank give higher valuation, now they give lower, hence owner asking lower too....

    give an example. mirage tower asking last time was at 1100 psf and bank was able to give matching valuation...now asking about 1000 psf but bank giving say 850 psf.... If I have bought in the past I would have been able to get higher loan....now I get lower loan but cheaper price.... and agent keep saying that if I wait in a few months, i can get higher loan but then prices would have rise....

    I always have the opinion that units never transact above bank valuation but nowadays bank seems to give low valuation...any expert opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    Hi Blackswan,

    I am currently staying with my parent and hope to get a place for own stay. I am in no hurry but my main concern is inflation which I believe will come and will come hard. Hence, I am looking for a place for stay and for capital gain. Not really from a yield perspective thou' it's a bonus to get good yield in the event that i rent it out. currently, i am looking more for own stay.

    Hi pweesng,
    to your post on GFA, how do you know if the area is already fully built up? can you advice? I am a property novice.
    vbmenu_register("postmenu_56580", true);
    Hi Lyn ,

    Just my 2cents of opinion.....
    I believe u read last sun strait times on how you calculate rental yield

    rental per month / purchase price x 12mths x 100% = rental yield

    Let take an example....

    You purchase Mill Point condo at zion road at 680k for 527sq ft with tenancy of 2.7k
    so rental yield is 2700/680000 x 12 x 100% = 4.7%

    If your monthly installment is 1.4k , that mean your profit will be 1.3k


    On the other hand if u purchase a similar project ,newer , ard tat area at 780k. if you use the above fomular to calculate .you will find tat rental yield n profit is not attractive enough.
    Of course newer project will fetch a better price if you sell.
    Bigger loan , more at risk....


    Im not agent

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    lyn, I thought people like to loan as least as possible to reduce the burden of installment. But why you want to loan that higher than bank valuation ? Loan the less the better right ? You can buy "lower"(I dont think so) price some more.

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    Default Valuations explains IMHO

    Valuation by valuers is generally based on:

    1. Recent transactions of comparable ppty
    2. Their view of the trend in ppty prices

    Problem is that valuers badly screwed up in late 2008 when ppty prices were taking a steep drop. In many instances the ppty prices dropped during the period OTP to purchase completion and loans got revoked. Banks fired many valuers and blamed them for poor judgement. Valuers got overly conservative after that and reduced their assessed values to cater for the down trend in prices.

    Which means that valuations became unrealistically low.

    From what I know most transactions now are above valuation. It will be sometime before valuations rise to a more realistic level and then we will have people transacting at or slightly below valuation, as is usually the case.

    This valuation discrepency presents a unique window for cash rich investors / buyers, as the cash above valuation can be prohibitive for most people. So it is sad but true that the normal Joe has to miss the opportunity to capitalize on this bull run until the bank is confident the market has recovered, and raises the valuations, and ofcourse he has to pay a lot more then.
    Last edited by cool_rrk; 09-06-09 at 23:18. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by cool_rrk
    This valuation discrepency presents a unique window for cash rich investors / buyers, as the cash above valuation can be prohibitive for most people. So it is sad but true that the normal Joe has to miss the opportunity to capitalize on this bull run until the bank is confident the market has recovered, and raises the valuations, and ofcourse he has to pay a lot more then.
    The following is also possible:

    This "bull run" is fueled mainly by HDB upgraders (refer to business times chart posted somewhere in this forum). But precisely because most HDB upgraders are "asset rich and cash poor", and the fact that banks aren't willing to lend enough to fund their condo dreams, the "bull run" will be short lived.

    Just my
    I'm a potential buyer.

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    sun, i think u misunderstood. What i meant was why is bank valuation amount 50-80 k less than asking price. Are sellers overasking or valuers over conservative?? It has got nothing to do with loan of sort....

    anyway at this market scenerio where interest rate is so low, i would go for high loan amount. use the liquid cash to invest and get more than bank loan rate of 1.5%.

    Quote Originally Posted by sun
    lyn, I thought people like to loan as least as possible to reduce the burden of installment. But why you want to loan that higher than bank valuation ? Loan the less the better right ? You can buy "lower"(I dont think so) price some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    I need help. I saw some places that I like but bank valuation is about 50 - 80k less than valuation. Agents are given reason such as bank over conservation in their valuation. In the past when market is good bank give higher valuation, now they give lower, hence owner asking lower too....

    give an example. mirage tower asking last time was at 1100 psf and bank was able to give matching valuation...now asking about 1000 psf but bank giving say 850 psf.... If I have bought in the past I would have been able to get higher loan....now I get lower loan but cheaper price.... and agent keep saying that if I wait in a few months, i can get higher loan but then prices would have rise....

    I always have the opinion that units never transact above bank valuation but nowadays bank seems to give low valuation...any expert opinion?
    I suggest that you approach a loan agent which has contact from many banks. Unless you can get a very good loan arrangment from a banker you know.

    Get a tentative loan approval (70%, 80% or 90%) with the targeted few property that you have in mind. Once you have the unit number, get the bank/agent to do an immediate valuation. Yes, the valuation may be lower, but chances of the bank to match the valuation are still possible unless the asking price from seller is too drastic. Alternatively, to ask the seller to match or lower the asking price as the bank cannot match. If the seller is desperate, they may match otherwise, it is better to move on. The banks must have a good reason not to match (take note of the key word, "banks" not one but all).

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    Quote Originally Posted by firec
    The following is also possible:

    This "bull run" is fueled mainly by HDB upgraders (refer to business times chart posted somewhere in this forum). But precisely because most HDB upgraders are "asset rich and cash poor", and the fact that banks aren't willing to lend enough to fund their condo dreams, the "bull run" will be short lived.

    Just my
    This statement is only true to the neighbour projects that are sold to HDB upgraders. You have to take note that certain projects in prime area are moving fast.

    When I tell people to buy in Dec to Mar, people say that price will drop further. Now I tell people to choose carefully but can still buy, people tell me that the fundamentals are not there and the market will come down in later. Mark my words, unless there is another major unforeseen event happening, the end 2009 and coming 2010 will only be better. If not, it will also maintain current pricing by moving sideward rather than downwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyn
    Hi Blackswan,

    Hi pweesng,
    to your post on GFA, how do you know if the area is already fully built up? can you advice? I am a property novice.
    vbmenu_register("postmenu_56580", true);
    Hi Lyn,

    Well it is very hard to get accurate info if you are not in the market. 10:1 or 9:1 etc..etc.. don't mean anything at all.

    you can get the info from URA, or from the Agents, they usually will have the info handy.

    a Rule of thumb. build ratio always increase as years goes by... because of improvement in the drainage system in the area, better traffic control...etc..etc... hence old developments are generally below the current build ratio. New Developements, in order to maximise profit, developer will usually exhaust 100% GFA. It will take a couple of decade for the build ratio to be increase to an extend where it would be meaningful for another developer to enbloc the project.

    Second rule, projects with big carparks above the ground, usually are under built. Just to name a few, Clementi Park, Sommerville Park, etc..etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    No use lah. No reason for owner to sign and acknowledge unless he accepted the OTP and cheque. Also, the agent can sign and you are non the wiser because you have never seen the owner's signature anyway.
    It depends, there was once i made an offer. The agent signed and indicated that the owner rejected my offer.

    A couple of months later, the unit was sold for less then the price i offered. i got in touch with the owner, we sue the agent.

    anyway, it was settled out of court. Basically the agent had to pay the owner the difference in the selling price and my offered price.

    i was given some compensation too, coz the selling price and the market price was a big margin.

    So, think again, if one is an agent and decides to sign on it.

    Anyways, there are ways to check if it is the owner or not. Telephone number, NRIC photocopy.. etc..etc...

    what i want to establish is that the owner saw my offer and decide to reject, and not because the agent didn't present my offer... we all know agents with exclusive can something get greedy!

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