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Thread: Property market sentiments?

  1. #1801
    xebay11 is offline New Launch Project Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    How true this is! Like many others, those complaining ones are the minority. As reported, >90% of population in Singapore already own their flats. It is the <10% who has not bought or who want to buy more at cheap price but missed the boat that are complaining. Think - Does the govt want the 90% who own properties to cheer for them (& vote for them) or the 10% complaining to cheer for them (& vote for them)? 90% vote is more important or the 10% vote is more important? The answer is very obvious.
    The ones who will lose out are the next generation ultimately, so nothing to cheer about really, how are they going to have the minority voice when they are still in school or not even born? As many young couples do not even want a next generation as they know the next generation will have to pay for the "riches" of the current so called 90%.

    If HDB prices do not go up, or very little and pulls down the private property market it is still beneficial, people can still upgrade to their dream property and have lots of cash to spare.

    Take for eg. buy 5 room HDB in 1980s for $80k and terrace house only $350k starting grad pay $1k, fast forward to 2010, assume in 2010, 5 room resale HDB flat only $120k, terrace house only $525 and starting grad pay is $2.5 to $3k one can still upgrade comfortably right?

    But now in reality 2010, 5 room flats climbing $500 to $700k and terrace houses are $1.5 to $2m and grad pay is $2.5 to $3k what is the use of the so called HDB capital appreciation?

    Remember don't let the PAP hoodwink you and throw the boogeyman at you buy saying that "If prices of HDB do not appreciate over 20 years will you want that?" I will say heck "yeah", as profits from HDB appreciation is the fuel for upgrading, then private property would also forced along the same route. Low profits from HDB = low appreciation for private property.

  2. #1802
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    Yes you are right. That is why some of the Singaporeans are already preparing for that eventuality where even graduates (except outstanding ones) can only afford to live in 'high-class' HDB flats and hence they are buying a few to hold for their children while the properties are cheaper now. Who knows or care what will happen 50-100 years down the road (As we are all dead)? The younger generation will have to use their brain to solve the problem just like our generation and the few generations before us solve the problems in Singapore to bring a 'sleepy fishing village' to '(quasi-)first-world' status.

    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    The ones who will lose out are the next generation ultimately, so nothing to cheer about really, how are they going to have the minority voice when they are still in school or not even born? As many young couples do not even want a next generation as they know the next generation will have to pay for the "riches" of the current so called 90%.

    If HDB prices do not go up, or very little and pulls down the private property market it is still beneficial, people can still upgrade to their dream property and have lots of cash to spare.

    Take for eg. buy 5 room HDB in 1980s for $80k and terrace house only $350k starting grad pay $1k, fast forward to 2010, assume in 2010, 5 room resale HDB flat only $120k, terrace house only $525 and starting grad pay is $2.5 to $3k one can still upgrade comfortably right?

    But now in reality 2010, 5 room flats climbing $500 to $700k and terrace houses are $1.5 to $2m and grad pay is $2.5 to $3k what is the use of the so called HDB capital appreciation?

    Remember don't let the PAP hoodwink you and throw the boogeyman at you buy saying that "If prices of HDB do not appreciate over 20 years will you want that?" I will say heck "yeah", as profits from HDB appreciation is the fuel for upgrading, then private property would also forced along the same route. Low profits from HDB = low appreciation for private property.

  3. #1803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby, SkyscraperCity, 20 January 2010 9.46 am
    Would had thought Char Yong location is worth over $3k.

    That's why the Indonesians wipe out so many units in Urban Suites because they will eat the meat and when property boom they will sell to those worried local and foreigners the bones. That's how they get richer and richer every cycle in Singapore over last 2 decades.
    For years, I have been waiting for someone to tell me this is not true.

    The person, who behaved like a property investment expert and mocked at the Indonesians for buying Urban Suites, obviously didn't realise he is the real fool.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Straits Times

    Urban Suites selling well despite prïcës hïkë
    Ïndönësïäns make up bulk of the buyers of CapitaLand's project
    Harsha Jethnani
    The Straits Times
    Wednesday, 20 January 2010


    An artist's impression of Urban Suites condominium. Phase 2 of the project attracted keen interest from foreign buyers who snapped up the units despite a price hike. -- Photo: CapitaLand

    Phase 2 of CapitaLand's Urban Suites' launch has attracted keen interest from buyers who have snäppëd üp units despite a hïkë in prïcës.

    The 50 units released in Jakarta, Indonesia, last week were äll söld öüt, while at home an additional 16 sales have been clinched since Phase 1 of the project's launch closed in early January.

    The popularity of the development was undiminished by an increase in prices - from between $2,400 psf and $2,700 psf in Phase 1, to $2,500 psf and $2,8ÖÖ psf in Phase 2 - for the units located in District 9 between Cairnhill, Hullet and Saunders roads.

    The latest sales mean that 126 out of the 140 released units in the 165-unit condominium have been sold. The 26 two-bedroom apartments are now completely sold out.

    2 of 5 available penthouses are off the market, with the remaining ones expected to fetch a quantum price of about $9 million. The penthouses range from 3,378 sqft to 4,715 sqft and are equipped with private pools.

    Though no exact figures were provided, the company said only a few 3- and 4-bedroom apartments remained to be sold.

    CapitaLand will preview the remaining units - by ïnvïtätïön önly - to buyers tomorrow. Unlike Phase 1, when only multiple purchases were allowed, units will be open to single-unit purchasers. The 1% discount offered to multiple-unit buyers in Phases 1 and 2 will continue.

    Another üpwärd revision in prïcës is a possibility, according to CapitaLand Residential Singapore CEO Patricia Chia.

    The development has attracted a high level of interest from förëïgnërs, with 7Ö% of units bought by those overseas. And most of them were Indonesian, CapitaLand said.

    Ïndönësïäns have a preference for freehold if given a choice. This is one of the very rare freeholds on Orchard Road,' said Ms Chia.

    The stronger market is set to lead to more hïgh-ënd project launches from CapitaLand this year.

    Urban Resorts - neighbouring Urban Suites and previously Silver Towers - consists of 64 3- and 4-bedroom units. Unit sizes are larger than those at Urban Suites, starting at 2,000 sqft for a three-bedder.

    Ms Chia added: 'Everybody expects 2010 to be the return of the high- and luxury-end residential market. I think at the right opportunity, we will launch.'

    Showflats for units at CapitaLand's Interlace in Alexandra/Depot Road are likely to be ready for viewing after the opening of the Sentosa integrated resort, Ms Chia said.

    Details of the company's future launches at Farrer Park and Nassim Hill have not been disclosed.

  4. #1804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter, 18 January 2010
    Oh! And in District 3 too.
    And, and, and ... a new high in District 27 too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter, Looking for condo in North, 20 January 2010 1.17 pm
    Yishun Sapphire's resale has a new high at $569 psf.


    Yishun Sapphire
    Address ............................. psf ............. Area ........... Price .......... Contract Date
    52 Canberra Drive #08-21 ...... $569 psf ..... 1,195 sqft .... $680,000 ..... 11 Dec 09

  5. #1805
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    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    Take for eg. buy 5 room HDB in 1980s for $80k and terrace house only $350k starting grad pay $1k, fast forward to 2010, assume in 2010, 5 room resale HDB flat only $120k, terrace house only $525 and starting grad pay is $2.5 to $3k one can still upgrade comfortably right?

    But now in reality 2010, 5 room flats climbing $500 to $700k and terrace houses are $1.5 to $2m and grad pay is $2.5 to $3k what is the use of the so called HDB capital appreciation?
    You cannot work out this way.

    Just like a dollar today is not worth a dollar yesterday; a graduate today is not worth a graduate yesterday. If you count the number of law graduates in 1961 versus 2005, you will see what I mean.

    However, what remains unchanged is that the top 0.1% earners in each generation (regardless of educational qualifications) will afford GCBs and super-luxury condos; the top 1% landed properties and prime condos; the top 10% private properties; and the remaining 90% suburban condos, ECs or what teddybear called 'high-class' HDB flats.





    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Yes you are right. That is why some of the Singaporeans are already preparing for that eventuality where even graduates (except outstanding ones) can only afford to live in 'high-class' HDB flats and hence they are buying a few to hold for their children while the properties are cheaper now.
    These are the people who believe in the Propertism religion - that properties should only be bought. Not sold.

    As long as you put all your properties into a trust and lay down the terms that they cannot be sold for eternity, your children should be fairly well protected.

  6. #1806
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    HK luxury home prices may rise 15%
    Cheung Kong Holdings also says HK and China's property markets not in bubble situation
    The Business Times
    Hong Kong
    Thursday, 21 January 2010


    Ever-growing: Record new loans fuelled a 75.5% jump in China's property sales last year. Home prices in Hong Kong, a trading and financial hub for China, are at their highest in almost 12 years

    Hong Kong's luxury home prices may rise as much as 15% this year, and there are no bubbles in the city's and China's property markets, said Cheung Kong (Holdings) Ltd, the builder owned by Asia's second-richest man, Li Ka-shing.

    Prices for luxury homes may increase 10-15% this year, and for new mass-market homes 15-20%, said Cheung Kong executive director Justin Chiu in Hong Kong yesterday. Revenue from China home sales may exceed 30 billion yuan (S$6.14 billion) this year, he said. That compares with his September forecast of 1.5 billion yuan for 2009 sales.

    'I don't really see a bubble,' Mr Chiu said. 'There shouldn't be too much concern about the governments trying to crush the market.' Mr Chiu's comments pit him against investor Jim Rogers, who said on Tuesday that real estate prices in the city and Shanghai are in a bubble and 'should decline'. Property prices in 70 cities across China climbed 7.8% in December, the fastest pace in 18 months. Hong Kong's real estate prices rallied the most among the world's major housing markets last year, according to property adviser Knight Frank LLP.

    Prices in the last six months of 2009 rose by 30% in Hong Kong and 20% in China, leading Mr Chiu to conclude that speculators may be at work.

    'We think that the substantial increase in such a short time, means that there could be a speculation element,' he said. 'That's why I advise buyers to really see whether they have the means to commit to buying an apartment. They should be careful.'

    Record new loans fuelled a 75.5% jump in China's property sales last year. Home prices in Hong Kong, a trading and financial hub for China, are at their highest in almost 12 years, leading the World Economic Forum and Goldman Sachs Group Inc to caution about the formation of asset bubbles.

    Homes sales in China, Hong Kong and Singapore by Cheung Kong, the world's second-biggest developer by market value, may exceed HK$100 billion (S$18 billion) if the company obtains government consent for all projects, Mr Chiu said.

    Cheung Kong's share price fell 1.9% to HK$98.10 as of 2.40 pm in Hong Kong. The stock's 37% gain last year made it 2009's worst performer in the six-member Hang Seng Property Index. It has dropped 1.8% this year, compared with the 4.5% decline in the index.

    Fred Hu, Goldman Sachs's chairman for Greater China, said on Jan 18 that property prices in China require monitoring for signs of bubbles forming.

    Prices at some luxury residential projects in Shanghai doubled last year, with Shui On Land Ltd's Casa Lakeview recording sales of 100,000 yuan per square meter in December, Lee Wee Liat, an analyst at Nomura International Hong Kong Ltd, said last week.

    Mark Mobius, who oversees US$34 billion of developing-nation assets at Templeton Asset Management Ltd, disagrees with Mr Rogers, saying on Jan 7 that the bubble in China's property market isn't about to burst. Gross domestic product rose 10.5% in the 4th quarter from a year earlier, according to the median of 41 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey for the release scheduled today.

    'The Chinese will act rationally and they're not going to kill the market,' he said.

    Mr Rogers, author of A Bull in China, said in on Tuesday that real estate in Shanghai and Hong Kong is 'very overpriced'. Hong Kong 'Limited' Garry Evans, head of global equity strategy at HSBC Holdings Plc, said in a Bloomberg Television interview on Tuesday that 'China is no way near a bubble'. Hong Kong developers, including Kerry Properties Ltd, Shui On and Hang Lung Properties Ltd, are building homes, offices and shopping malls in China to capture market share in the world's fastest-growing major economy. The strategy will continue even as China acts to cool the property market, analyst Adrian Ngan said.

    'It's a long-term strategy, it's a must, because the growth in Hong Kong is very much limited,' Mr Ngan, a Hong Kong-based analyst at CCB International Ltd, said before Mr Chiu's comments.

    To cool property speculation, China this month reinstated a sales tax on homes sold within 5 years of their purchase, and the country's Cabinet on Jan 10 urged strict applications of a 40% down-payment requirement for 2nd homes.

    China accounts for about 10% of Hong Kong-based Cheung Kong's earnings, Mr Ngan said.

    Ronnie Chan, chairman of Hong Kong-based Hang Lung Properties Ltd, said the tightening measures in China will not have an impact on the company's real estate projects in the country because 'we have zero debt'. Hang Lung's strategy of focusing only on developing commercial properties in China helps the developer avoid being affected by volatility in residential prices, the target of tightening efforts, Mr Chan said at a financial forum in Hong Kong yesterday.

    Hong Kong home prices, where average values climbed 33%, rose the most among the world's major housing markets last year, according to property adviser Knight Frank LLP. An index of existing homes is at its highest since March 1998, according to a weekly weighted measure developed by Centaline Property Agency Ltd and the City University of Hong Kong.

    Billionaire Mr Li, 81, is dubbed 'Süpërmän' by Hong Kong's media because of his track record for investing. He has a 41.7% stake in Cheung Kong after adding to his holdings 29 times since December, stock exchange filings show.

    Mr Li, estimated to be worth US$16.2 billion by Forbes magazine in March, correctly predicted in 2007 that China's stock market was in a 'bubble'.

    Bloomberg
    Last edited by Reporter; 21-01-10 at 08:27.

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    Fall in HDB upgraders' private home purchases
    The Business Times
    Thursday, 21 January 2010

    The strong recovery in private home prices during the course of last year pushed down HDB upgraders' share of private home purchases to 33.8% in Q4 2009 from a high of 56.2% in Q1 last year, shows the latest caveats analysis by Jones Lang LaSalle.



    HDB upgraders accounted for 44.4% of private home purchases in Q2 last year, with the share slipping to 37.9% in Q3.

    DTZ executive director Ong Choon Fah says: 'Whenever the market is down, for instance in Q1 last year, you tend to see more buying activity by HDB upgraders. When prices go up, HDB upgraders pull back, as they are very price sensitive. And there's no strong push factor for them to buy a private home since they already have a very good-quality roof over their heads.'

    Urban Redevelopment Authority's price index for private homes contracted 18% in the first half of 2009 (from end-2008 level) but recovered 24.2% in the 2nd half.

    JLL's SE Asia research head Chua Yang Liang points out that the gap between prices of private condos/apartments and Housing & Development Board flats has widened since 2008. 'As such, we expect HDB upgraders' 'participation' in private home purchases to continue to pull back moderately before picking up again as more mass-market condo projects are launched when the government tenders out more sites during the course of this year.'

    'I reckon HDB upgraders' share of private home purchases could hover around 35-40% by end-2010,' he added.


    'Whenever the market is down, for instance in Q1 last year, you tend to see more buying activity by HDB upgraders. When prices go up, HDB upgraders pull back, as they are very price sensitive.'

    - Ong ChoonFah

    . DTZ executive director

  8. #1808
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    China properties: bubble or no bubble?
    Editorial
    The Business Times
    Thursday, 21 January 2010

    The views are split almost right down the middle. Is there or is there not a bubble in China's property market? Cheung Kong, one of the largest property developers in Hong Kong, yesterday said that there are no bubbles in either Hong Kong's or mainland China's property markets. Said its executive director Justin Chiu: 'I don't really see a bubble. There shouldn't be too much concern about the governments trying to crush the market.'

    The comments are in direct contrast with that of renowned investor Jim Rogers. Though a very vocal China bull, Mr Rogers cautioned on Tuesday that real estate prices in Hong Kong and Shanghai are in bubble territory and 'should decline'. Efforts to restrain lending underscore the government's attempt to take 'some of the heat out of the economy', he said in an interview with Bloomberg. The rest of the Chinese economy, however, is 'hardly in a bubble', he added.

    Views differ among investment analysts and asset managers as well. Mark Mobius, who oversees US$34 billion of emerging market assets at Templeton Asset Management, said two weeks back that China's property market isn't about to crash. 'The Chinese will act rationally. They are not going to kill the market,' he said. By contrast, former Morgan Stanley chief Asian economist, and now an independent economist based in Shanghai, Andy Xie is unambiguously bearish, describing China's asset markets today as 'a big bubble'.

    The numbers give us a clue as to what is going on. Record new loans fuelled a 75.5% jump in China's property sales last year. Property prices in 70 cities across China climbed 7.8% in December, the fastest pace in 18 months. But in places such as Shanghai and Beijing, prices of new apartments leapt by 50-60% during 2009.

    One should certainly be circumspect when taking in the comments of politicians, stock analysts and fund managers. They may have their own agendas. A good judging yardstick, however, is perhaps the äctiöns (nöt wörds) of people in the property business. They seem to be of the opinion that there is genuine demand for properties. On Monday, CapitaLand announced it is buying over the real estate business of Hong Kong-listed Orient Overseas (International) for US$2.2 billion. The purchase includes 7 sites in Shanghai, Kunshan and Tianjin, with about 1.48 million sqm of floor space. Meanwhile, Hong Kong developers including Cheung Kong, Kerry Properties, Shui On and Hang Lung Properties are not slowing down their pace of development in China either. Even SOHO China, one of the leading private developers on the mainland, is not stepping back despite saying that it sees a lot of asset bubbles. Its strategy instead is to turn around its developments faster.

    The good thing is that China's government is vigilant and has already imposed a number of measures to cool down the market. Actions from property developers seem to suggest that while the cooling measures may stall the market temporarily, in the longer term, the inevitable trend is up.

  9. #1809
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    More jobs, bonus and pay
    Esther Teo
    The Straits Times
    Thursday, 21 January 2010, 3.50 pm


    Bonuses are also set to rise, with 50% of employers expecting to pay year end bonuses of more than 10%, compared to 28% the previous year, while another 17% expect to pay 20% in bonuses. -- Photo: Joyce Fang

    More good news for Singapore workers on the job front.

    The latest report by human resource consultancy Hudson indicate that more firms are raising headcount in the 1st quarter, paying bigger bonuses and boosting starting salaries of new recruits.

    In a survey of over 400 executives across key business sectors last November, 51% of the firms forecasted increased hiring in the first quarter - a sharp increase from the 34% in the 4th quarter of last year. Only 4% of respondents said that they will decrease headcount this quarter.

    This is the greatest quarterly jump ever seen since Hudson launched report in Asia in 1998.

    Bonuses are also set to rise, with 50% of employers expecting to pay year end bonuses of more than 10%, compared to 28% the previous year, while another 17% expect to pay 20% in bonuses. Employers in the banking and financial services sector plan to pay the highest bonuses, offering substantially more than they did last year, with nearly two-thirds - or 65% - saying that bonuses will be more than 10% while 35% plan to give over 20%.

    Most businesses are also looking to pay higher starting salaries to attract managerial talent. Some 42% expect to raise starting salaries by more than 10%, while only 8% said that they will not do it.

    Many companies are also developing strategies for employee engagement and talent retention, with 29% identifying mentoring schemes and training programmes as the most valuable measures. Companies are also increasingly optimistic about the future, with 78% of respondents forecasting that their organisation's performance will be excellent or good this year.

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