Property market sentiments?

[Reporter]

6 whole floors sold at Marina Bay Suites preview
Buyers include Indonesians, Singaporeans and other Asians
Kalpana Rashiwala
The Business Times
Thursday, 3 December 2009


Marina Bay Suites

About half a dozen floors at Marina Bay Suites changed hands at last week's preview of the project, BT understands.

The buyers of the whole floors are understood to be Indonesians, Singaporeans and other Asians.

Some of them bought through companies. The foreigners are believed to be Singapore permanent residents.

In absolute terms, the biggest transaction was close to $45 million, involving at least 2 floors. The buyer is understood to be an Indonesian party.

Market watchers estimate that it could have cost buyers between $17 million and $18 million to purchase a whole floor at the 99-year leasehold condo based on prices at last week's preview.

Each floor has four apartments - two 3-bedroom units and two 4 bedders. The total saleable area per floor is slightly under 8,000 sqft.

Thomas Tan, head of marketing (residential) at Raffles Quay Asset Management (RQAM), told BT yesterday that 87 of the 90 units released for the preview have been sold.

The 87 units fetched close to $400 million, he added.

Two thirds of the units were sold to Singapore residents (including PRs). The remaining one third was sold to non-PR foreigners, including Indonesians, Malaysians, mainland Chinese, Australians and Americans.

'We do have multiple-unit buyers, but due to client confidentiality and privacy reasons, we are unable to reveal such information,' Mr Tan said when asked about purchases of entire floors.

RQAM is the asset manager for Marina Bay Suites, which is being developed by a joint venture involving Hongkong Land, Keppel Land and Cheung Kong Holdings.

Mr Tan declined to give details about pricing except to reiterate that 'the average price range was between $2,200 psf and $2,500 psf'. BT understands that on an average basis, the 90 units were priced at close to $2,300 psf.

However, the range at which the apartments were sold could be about $1,800 psf to slightly over $2,600 psf.

Mr Tan said that the apartments released were from the 7th to the 40th-plus floors of the 66-storey development.

The 221-unit project comprises 218 3- or 4-bedroom apartments and three penthouses. Currently, the plan is to begin construction of the project sometime in the first half of next year, Mr Tan said.

'We have no immediate plans to release more units for the rest of this year but we'll continue to register interested buyers. We'll monitor the market and determine the price at the time of launch.'

[Property_Owner]

how do you know the rental yield is going to be good ?

Look at Hillcrest villa .. no taker ... super prime district with prime schools .. also L L

whats your basis that whatever bay ? is a great investment ? taking away the university ...

NUS still consider near town .. look at NTU ..the rental arund there good ???

Haha. One of my neighbour bought Hillcrest Villa. When he got it yaya papaya with me everyday tell me how good is tat location plus all e good schools there. Now don't even dare to face me. I had introduced him some agents and yet non even had an offer for his unit.

Fault is?

[proud owner]

Haha. One of my neighbour bought Hillcrest Villa. When he got it yaya papaya with me everyday tell me how good is tat location plus all e good schools there. Now don't even dare to face me. I had introduced him some agents and yet non even had an offer for his unit.

Fault is?

ihiihi Mr Property-owner
your mail box super full leow

[Property_Owner]

[/QUOTE]

'We do have multiple-unit buyers, but due to client confidentiality and privacy reasons, we are unable to reveal such information,' Mr Tan said when asked about purchases of entire floors.

[/QUOTE]

At least they hold this informations.

[bargain hunter]

best part is the 99 year lease starts in 1992 and MCL din top up the lease to sell to your neighbour. So far almost all of the 5 or 6 subsales are either at break even or loss.

wait till the duchess residences one TOP, lagi underwater. 1 fella even bought at 2300psf in 07. so far 2 cut loss sellers this year at 14xxpsf.

Haha. One of my neighbour bought Hillcrest Villa. When he got it yaya papaya with me everyday tell me how good is tat location plus all e good schools there. Now don't even dare to face me. I had introduced him some agents and yet non even had an offer for his unit.

Fault is?

[Reporter]

Singaporeans spending more nowadays
Sharan Kaur
AsiaOne
Thursday, 3 December 2009

Singaporeans across all income groups are spending an average of 2.7% more each year across 5 years - from 2002 until 2008.

There's no cause for worry yet, as Singaporeans across all income groups are also earning more now than we used to, with the average monthly household income growing 6.1% per year from $5,540 in 2002/03 to $7,440 in 2007/08.

However, the income gap between the rich and poor in Singapore is widening. The average increase in income for the top 20% households in Singapore over 5 years was 6.8% while the figure for the lowest 20% of households in Singapore was significantly lower at 2.9%.

In 2007/08, those living in private housing spent an average of $7,090 per month on household expenditure. This figure is more than twice of the average monthly household expenditure of those living in HDB flats, according to the latest Household Expenditure Survey released today.

Interestingly, more than 60% of our money was spent on food, food serving services and transport. According to the survey, this is due to rising food and petrol prices as well as households' preference for dining out.

The survey, conducted once every 5 years by the Department of Statistics, also showed home ownership rates remained at the same level that from 2002 to 2008, but there was greater access to consumer items.

For example, almost all households owned television sets in '08, a 1% increase in the figure from 2002/03. The percentage of households with Pay-TV subscriptions also increased 10% to 45% in 2002/03.

Here's what else the survey revealed:
Household expenditure

• Increases in household expenditure among the top 80% of households ranged from 2.6 to 3.4% each year while the increase among the lowest 20% of households was 1.1%.
• The average monthly household expenditure increased by 2 to 3% per annum among households in private housing and HDB 5-room and bigger flats. Households in HDB three- and four-room flats experienced a slower growth rate of 1.5 to 1.9% while the growth rate of households in HDB 1- and 2-room flats declined slightly by 0.7%.
• Spending on healthcare grew by 5.8% per annum with increases in expenditure on hospitalization, specialized medical treatment, dental services and pharmaceutical products.
• The proportion of household expenditure spent on food and nonalcoholic beverages decreased as household income increased. Among the lowest 20% of households, it accounted for 12% of household expenditure while it only accounted for 5.6 per cent for the top 20% households.
• Those living in HDB spent 16% more on food than those living in private housing.

Household income

• On average, employment income contributed 83% of total household income from all sources. Business income contributed 12% while the remaining 4.7% of total household income was from non-work sources such as rental, investment, cash contribution from relatives/friends, social welfare grants, etc.The lowest 20% of households were more reliant on income from non-work sources than other income groups.

Ownership of property and consumer items

• The proportion of households with air-conditioners increased from 4% to 75%.
• The proportion of households with cars increased slightly from 35% in 2002/03 to 38 per cent in 2007/09.
• The percentage of households with internet subscriptions increased 15% to 70%.
• The average monthly household expenditure on communication also increased by 4.1% per annum due to the higher spending on mobile phone subscriptions and call charges as well as internet subscriptions.
• In contrast, the average household expenditure on residential telephone fixed-line subscriptions and call charges declined, showing households preferred to use mobile phones and internet instead.

[proud owner]

best part is the 99 year lease starts in 1992 and MCL din top up the lease to sell to your neighbour. So far almost all of the 5 or 6 subsales are either at break even or loss.

wait till the duchess residences one TOP, lagi underwater. 1 fella even bought at 2300psf in 07. so far 2 cut loss sellers this year at 14xxpsf.

Duchess residences is the one inside Rebecca area ?

sold out in 1 day ... aunties all queue up to buy that one ? heehehe

[Reporter]

'We do have multiple-unit buyers, but due to client confidentiality and privacy reasons, we are unable to reveal such information,' Mr Tan said when asked about purchases of entire floors.

At least they hold this informations.

MBS developer have to hold this information. Otherwise, the forumers here will know the true identity of Property_Owner.

[Property_Owner]

ihiihi Mr Property-owner
your mail box super full leow

Just clear Pal.

[Property_Owner]

Duchess residences is the one inside Rebecca area ?

sold out in 1 day ... aunties all queue up to buy that one ? heehehe

Yup, same group of aunties tat queue for Seafront. keke

[bargain hunter]

not exactly rebecca...rebecca was the showflat haha. its actually deep deep deep inside duchess avenue and behind hwa chong hostel. grabbed in 1 day but not sold out lah, but almost all sold within 2 or 3 weeks. aunties??? either they are very rich or in a lot of trouble lor. smallest unit was a 3 bedder, sold on average more than 2.5m. many penthouses and garden mansionettes sold at more than 5 or 6m.

Duchess residences is the one inside Rebecca area ?

sold out in 1 day ... aunties all queue up to buy that one ? heehehe

[bargain hunter]

lowest price transacted so far is 2.5+m for a terrace at hillcrest villa. even 2m i also won't buy considering the 81 year lease left.

Haha. One of my neighbour bought Hillcrest Villa. When he got it yaya papaya with me everyday tell me how good is tat location plus all e good schools there. Now don't even dare to face me. I had introduced him some agents and yet non even had an offer for his unit.

Fault is?

[HP65]

ihiihi Mr Property-owner
your mail box super full leow

This is indeed one of those projects that the blind leads the blind. So many people blindly follow colleagues, bosses, relatives etc to buy without assessing the true value (including the costs) of the property. I heard 75% of the development are up for sale or rental.

There are a few other propjects that I went to see which has TOP for awhile and yet its empty. Eg, One-North, Six Ave Residences, Hill-Crest Villias, Suites at Central.

So, these `investors' or rather `speculators' find that its worth their money to just park their money in properties and leave it empty. Can't remember which joker, was it reporter or whoever i can't even be bothered to remember, chided me that buying Gold earns no yield and yet attracts storage costs. Now, unless one pays in full their properties, they still need to pay maintenance monthly. Isn't this akin to buying Gold, haha. Some of you in this forum are just unbelievable. Keep trying so hard with all your stupid colorful reports and searching so hard for something positive out of reports, and posting them here. Con job right? Agents, or people holding multiple units.......seriously I would really like to see all you guys someday, because all you property bulls are doing such a great con job and I'm very curious who are you guys.

And then there is another idiot who keeps asking people to buy DBR, that is the ultimate joker in this forum.

For the rest of you, and i think the majority of forumers here, try to do more home work, do not be mislead by sales talks or speculators. Its not possible for so many singaporeans to have their properties left empty. Sooner or later, weak holders will have to sell their units. I was offered $200k below the purchase price at Hill Crest Villas but I still refused it. Imagine how desperate the seller is. Btw, I wasn't looking for unit at Hill Crest, but rather received a flyer in my mailbox. So I decided to test out the agent and to find out the `market value' of this area since I just stayed across the road and I'm vested here.

Sometimes I wonder if Singapore is heading the way of Australia where property prices has also appreciated a lot but the rental yields, although is slowing climbing, is still very low. I just sold 2 units at Chatswood, Sydney last week. Bought it slightly over 12 months ago at AUD 650k. Sold them at AUD 1.8 mio to, yes, 2 Chinese nationals again. Decided to sell it as interest rate is climbing but rental is not able to keep up even though its easily rented out within 2 weeks of advertisement. And added to that exchange gain of 20%, better packup and leave. So, i also can't wait to see interest rates increase in Singapore and this reagion. Units can still be taken up but monthly servicing of instalments will kill/ bleed the majority of these speculators. Waiting to see the show.....

[HP65]

lowest price transacted so far is 2.5+m for a terrace at hillcrest villa. even 2m i also won't buy considering the 81 year lease left.

Haha, ya, I told the agent who contacted me if I would like to make an offer, I said you will fall off you chair even if its a herman miller, he said `try me', so I offered $1.68 mio.

[bargain hunter]

so is 2.5m already 200k below value or that is now the value and you were offered a unit 200k below it?

Haha, ya, I told the agent who contacted me if I would like to make an offer, I said you will fall off you chair even if its a herman miller, he said `try me', so I offered $1.68 mio.

[bargain hunter]

i think the show won't come until 2011 as these speculators will try to 'dong' through 2010 and as more completions come on stream in 2011 coupled with interest rate increase at around that time then they buay tahan.

This is indeed one of those projects that the blind leads the blind. So many people blindly follow colleagues, bosses, relatives etc to buy without assessing the true value (including the costs) of the property. I heard 75% of the development are up for sale or rental.

There are a few other propjects that I went to see which has TOP for awhile and yet its empty. Eg, One-North, Six Ave Residences, Hill-Crest Villias, Suites at Central.

So, these `investors' or rather `speculators' find that its worth their money to just park their money in properties and leave it empty. Can't remember which joker, was it reporter or whoever i can't even be bothered to remember, chided me that buying Gold earns no yield and yet attracts storage costs. Now, unless one pays in full their properties, they still need to pay maintenance monthly. Isn't this akin to buying Gold, haha. Some of you in this forum are just unbelievable. Keep trying so hard with all your stupid colorful reports and searching so hard for something positive out of reports, and posting them here. Con job right? Agents, or people holding multiple units.......seriously I would really like to see all you guys someday, because all you property bulls are doing such a great con job and I'm very curious who are you guys.

And then there is another idiot who keeps asking people to buy DBR, that is the ultimate joker in this forum.

For the rest of you, and i think the majority of forumers here, try to do more home work, do not be mislead by sales talks or speculators. Its not possible for so many singaporeans to have their properties left empty. Sooner or later, weak holders will have to sell their units. I was offered $200k below the purchase price at Hill Crest Villas but I still refused it. Imagine how desperate the seller is. Btw, I wasn't looking for unit at Hill Crest, but rather received a flyer in my mailbox. So I decided to test out the agent and to find out the `market value' of this area since I just stayed across the road and I'm vested here.

Sometimes I wonder if Singapore is heading the way of Australia where property prices has also appreciated a lot but the rental yields, although is slowing climbing, is still very low. I just sold 2 units at Chatswood, Sydney last week. Bought it slightly over 12 months ago at AUD 650k. Sold them at AUD 1.8 mio to, yes, 2 Chinese nationals again. Decided to sell it as interest rate is climbing but rental is not able to keep up even though its easily rented out within 2 weeks of advertisement. And added to that exchange gain of 20%, better packup and leave. So, i also can't wait to see interest rates increase in Singapore and this reagion. Units can still be taken up but monthly servicing of instalments will kill/ bleed the majority of these speculators. Waiting to see the show.....

[bargain hunter]

actually i can already feel it for the caveats of Hillcrest villlas. since all so gung-ho take up loan except for 2 units which defaulted. i think the caveats will slowly trend down 2.5m, 2.3m, ... then mortgagee firesales coming in a year or 2. Where got so many buyers willing to fork out more than 2m for this project?

This is indeed one of those projects that the blind leads the blind. So many people blindly follow colleagues, bosses, relatives etc to buy without assessing the true value (including the costs) of the property. I heard 75% of the development are up for sale or rental.

There are a few other propjects that I went to see which has TOP for awhile and yet its empty. Eg, One-North, Six Ave Residences, Hill-Crest Villias, Suites at Central.

I was offered $200k below the purchase price at Hill Crest Villas but I still refused it. Imagine how desperate the seller is. Btw, I wasn't looking for unit at Hill Crest, but rather received a flyer in my mailbox. So I decided to test out the agent and to find out the `market value' of this area since I just stayed across the road and I'm vested here.

[Reporter]

..........
..........

There are a few other propjects that I went to see which has TOP for awhile and yet its empty. Eg, One-North, Six Ave Residences, Hill-Crest Villias, Suites at Central.

So, these `investors' or rather `speculators' find that its worth their money to just park their money in properties and leave it empty. Can't remember which joker, was it reporter or whoever i can't even be bothered to remember, chided me that buying Gold earns no yield and yet attracts storage costs. ..........

..........
..........

Sometimes I wonder if Singapore is heading the way of Australia where property prices has also appreciated a lot but the rental yields, although is slowing climbing, is still very low. I just sold 2 units at Chatswood, Sydney last week. Bought it slightly over 12 months ago at AUD 650k. Sold them at AUD 1.8 mio to, yes, 2 Chinese nationals again. Decided to sell it as interest rate is climbing but rental is not able to keep up even though its easily rented out within 2 weeks of advertisement. And added to that exchange gain of 20%, better packup and leave. So, i also can't wait to see interest rates increase in Singapore and this reagion. Units can still be taken up but monthly servicing of instalments will kill/ bleed the majority of these speculators. Waiting to see the show.....

One-North? Why mentioned Reporter? Cos' Reporter sold his unit to a foreigner family for a profit a few months back? The family is enjoying their stay there so far. This is no con job.

You buy properties too. Maybe Reporter is just copying you.
When you buy, you are smart. Other can't cristise you for buying.
But when others buy, you will cristise them for being stupid.
Reporter don't practise that. Reporter is no hypocrite. That's the difference in the characters.

[Property_Owner]

One-North? Why mentioned Reporter? Cos' Reporter sold his unit to a foreigner family for a profit a few months back? The family is enjoying their stay there so far. This is no con job.

You buy properties too. Maybe Reporter is just copying you.
When you buy, you are smart. Other can't cristise you for buying.
But when others buy, you will cristise them for being stupid.
Reporter don't practise that. Reporter is no hypocrite. That's the difference in the characters.

Relax Pal,

Teddy will be back soon

[proud owner]

One-North? Why mentioned Reporter? Cos' Reporter sold his unit to a foreigner family for a profit a few months back? The family is enjoying their stay there so far. This is no con job.

You buy properties too. Maybe Reporter is just copying you.
When you buy, you are smart. Other can't cristise you for buying.
But when others buy, you will cristise them for being stupid.
Reporter don't practise that. Reporter is no hypocrite. That's the difference in the characters.

by the way guys ... most of you know i am not in spore ...

below is what my friend told me ...is it true ?

i heard from a friend who rented a unit at One North ...said she has empty units as neighbours, so the lift is like her own private lift ..agents as friends cos everyday agents walk around the estate .. waiting for buyers, renters to turn up ... they even bring stool to sit ..

she said her real neighbour is in the opposite block ... very very quiet ...not environment quiet but NOBODY there ...

is that true ?

[Reporter]

Relax Pal,

Teddy will be back soon

It's OK to have different opinions but I think it is not nice to be a hypocrite. Should I go around condemning Southbank, D7, One-North, D5, etc. now that I am no longer vested in them? I still post news on D7 and D5 although they are none of my business.

HP65 thinks he is a great fortune teller in late October by saying I am trying to drive up the market. The fact is I bought that D9 unit 2 weeks after his fortune-telling. Maybe I am trying to drive up the price so that I can buy high?

Or trying to drum up sentiments. Reporter could be one of those who bought at a high in 2007 or bought one recently in Jul 2009. So now trying to drive the market up further single-handedly , just to breakeven.

If have holding power, no need to worry, no need to read so many analyst reports and post here to justify purchase. In 7 years time sure can sell at a profit. But be prepared for a roller-coaster ride

We have gurus here which I can learn from.

Now we have fortune teller here that can tell a person's background and what he has invested in. Cool!

Can you teach me how you can tell I bought high in 2007 and am desperately trying to breakeven?
To be honest, I am desperate. I am desperate to learn from you on fortune-telling. I can make more wealth with this skill.

I feel sorry for you HP65!

I sold my 31st level in 2007 at $1,200psf.
He beats me by $50psf.
Cool!

[gfoo]

I will agree with this statement to a limited extent. Over the long run, ceteris paribus, Sentosa Cove shows much more promise than the Marina Bay area. Both sites are 99-year leasehold (hence will only face depreciating land lease over time; unlike most of the land tracts in D9 and D10 which are freehold and can withstand multiple property cycles); but the biggest problem with the Marina Bay area is that the whole infrastural investment is made with public consumption in mind. Not all the rich wish to stay next to towering office blocks and traffic congestion in the financial district, not all the rich wish to share the same public space as the man in the street. Whereas Sentosa Cove is a rich enclave, with private pools, private lift wells, private gardens, and even the entire surroundings are gated. This is the greatest difference. With this difference, it poses a long term risk to properties in the Bay area. With their rarefied entry prices and 99-year lease term, whether upside risks balance out the gains is another story. Let's all wait and see how this segment pans out.

Spot on dude. I'm starting to dread the major events like ndp, F1 and the yearend fireworks - people from i dunno where will congregate and jam traffic here - i wish there was some mechanism to control inflow of the masses in the area

[proud owner]

Spot on dude. I'm starting to dread the major events like ndp, F1 and the yearend fireworks - people from i dunno where will congregate and jam traffic here - i wish there was some mechanism to control inflow of the masses in the area

hey pal

i know exactly what you mean .. i just experienced it ...

was coming home from work .. walking thru Rockefeller where theres a huge 10 storey Live Xmas Tree Light up ceremony ...

3 streets were closed .. imagine the residents + tourists all jam up the streets, and between 5th Ave and Avenues of Americas ... i couldnt even get home ... i have no interest in the xmas light up but it has created inconvenience to me ...

and you know how the NYPD does it ..very efficiently closed aves and streets for such events ..

even in the morning, to work, walking past CBS studios ... all the fans + tourists crowding outside ... very often i cant even walk smoothly on the walkway without being stopped(blocked) by tourists taking pictures ..

[gfoo]

i dun mind the human traffic - its the stupid cars/trucks/vans that they arrive in and block the whole street. add to this, many of them will be like monkeys, climbing on top of of construction worker quarters, trampling over branchlings, clumbing on trailer backs with the prefab blocks still on it - banglas and hamsters are much more well behaved than this lot.

one of the neighbours is stocking up on balloons and a super soaker

[new2mondrian]

Spot on dude. I'm starting to dread the major events like ndp, F1 and the yearend fireworks - people from i dunno where will congregate and jam traffic here - i wish there was some mechanism to control inflow of the masses in the area

Let's put it this way. If Bt Timah floods tomorrow (again), there will be immediate action and more press releases on Govt stepping in to widen canals, step up on flood prevention investments etc etc.... after all, the landed gentry there are to be reckoned with. Similarly, Oxley Road is inaccessible to the public unless one is a proven resident of that stretch, for reasons known to most Singaporeans.

But Marina Bay area??? I honestly doubt so.... That has never been an enclave of the old wealth nor the old guards.... And there are too many entry/exit points (above-ground and underground) to that area that crowd control is virtually difficult and next to impossible.

But then again, I might be wrong. The next decade belongs to Asia. The new wealth in Asia might just simply prefer to go where the crowd goes, and to live where the skyscrappers are. Hence the wait and see approach.

[gfoo]

lol e perennial 'old money vs nouveau riche' debate.

[stalingrad]

It is raining cats and dogs again outside. Bukit Timah residents are going to get a chance to see their cars swim and take pictures again.

All of a sudden multi-story carparks are in vogue again.

[gfoo]

like mr brown says - bukit timah will be the next waterfront prime district

[HP65]

so is 2.5m already 200k below value or that is now the value and you were offered a unit 200k below it?

I checked, the unit was bought for $2.6 mio. Seller offered $2.4 mio to me.

[bargain hunter]

as though our discussion on hillcrest villas earlier is not bad enough...the rain pours on them once more. now their true selling point becomes waterfront villas.

like mr brown says - bukit timah will be the next waterfront prime district