View Poll Results: Bull or Bear

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  • Bullish

    38 50.67%
  • Bearish

    37 49.33%
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Thread: Property market sentiments?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckwrx
    Just taking Mi Casa and The Arte as an example, I really cannot understand why there was a mad rush to snap up these properties??
    Friend, check out the 5 room HDB resale prices at CCK in May 09:

    440 Choa Chu Kang Ave 4 01 to 05 133.00
    Model A 1993 $350,000.00 686B Choa Chu Kang Cres 06 to 10 110.00
    Improved 2002 $357,000.00 686D Choa Chu Kang Cres 06 to 10 110.00
    Improved 2002 $360,000.00 692A Choa Chu Kang Cres 01 to 05 110.00
    Improved 2003 $356,000.00 692B Choa Chu Kang Cres 16 to 20 110.00
    Improved 2003 $370,000.00 501 Choa Chu Kang St 51 11 to 15 128.00
    Improved 1995 $377,500.00 501 Choa Chu Kang St 51 11 to 15 123.00
    Improved 1995 $365,000.00

    And none of the buyers in Mi Casa opted for IAS ... you still dun get the idea? New must be good, long q must be good, Santorini lifestyle wow I have been to Santorini, not even close
    Last edited by jitkiat; 25-05-09 at 17:52.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckwrx
    Just taking Mi Casa and The Arte as an example, I really cannot understand why there was a mad rush to snap up these properties??
    Angmor: I just bought the Admiral at River Road for US$500psf, overlooks the Hudson and i can see the whole manhattan skyline. Historically, it used to be one of the landing ports for immigrants to America.

    Frenchie: I just bought a summer home in the French Riviera for US$500psf, slightly inland but can walk to the beach, and to the houses of the rich and famous. This area used to be where Napolean and Josephine were rumored to bonk naked on the sands.

    Singie: I just bought Santorini lifestyle - Mi Casa! Also for US$500 psf.

    Angmor and Frenchie: Wow, you must be rich! US$500 for great views of the Aegean. Sweet!

    Singie: Simi Aegean? My Mi Casa in Choa Chu Kang, last time pig farm, chicken farm, and cemetary. But now, it's Mediterranean with Dancing Blocks!

    Two Morals of the Story:
    • If it sounds too good to true it's probably marketing-speak
    • If your Sales Order states FEO Ltd, you probably just got conned

  3. #33
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    LOL .... ur funny style as usual

    Hey, juz curious, u oso balanced view izit? Kpohing the poll results .....


    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    Angmor: I just bought the Admiral at River Road for US$500psf, overlooks the Hudson and i can see the whole manhattan skyline. Historically, it used to be one of the landing ports for immigrants to America.

    Frenchie: I just bought a summer home in the French Riviera for US$500psf, slightly inland but can walk to the beach, and to the houses of the rich and famous. This area used to be where Napolean and Josephine were rumored to bonk naked on the sands.

    Singie: I just bought Santorini lifestyle - Mi Casa! Also for US$500 psf.

    Angmor and Frenchie: Wow, you must be rich! US$500 for great views of the Aegean. Sweet!

    Singie: Simi Aegean? My Mi Casa in Choa Chu Kang, last time pig farm, chicken farm, and cemetary. But now, it's Mediterranean with Dancing Blocks!

    Two Morals of the Story:
    • If it sounds too good to true it's probably marketing-speak
    • If your Sales Order states FEO Ltd, you probably just got conned

  4. #34
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    Default Which is Santorini which is Mi Casa ... reward for correct guess




  5. #35
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    Wah v good ang moh ... especially like the part about TOP, sounds logical ..

    & yes, u've mentioned about timing & ur belief in this before ... it's kinda related to someone's theory about the PPI oso ...

    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Actually my views is it will stay in this manner for a while. But no "unchange" vote in the poll...

    And putting aside all indexs, bond, forex, etc, going straight to the feel on property, my humble point is; while it could be difficult to fall to 2005 slump price, it is also quite an uphill task to see 2007 peak. You may think this is as good as not saying but then if you look at this in this manner, then why the hurry to grab a property? Especially those yet to TOP, also cannot stay or rent if you buy now.
    ........
    And for Location? Buy shenton can also lost $. Amenities? Higher premium = higher outlay. Tenure? Can kill you 2 ways for both LH/FH. Home? Prerequisitie is to get a house 1st, never trust a house could be your ultimate home untill one dwell in. Even so, things change.

    I only trust timing. But then thats me. Anyone who can afford comfortably for his/her fancy, I would said just go ahead since you live only once and don't bother so much about the movement of property.

    But for those can or must wait, I mean.. whats the hurry?

  6. #36
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    Which is Santorini which is Mi Casa ... reward for correct guess

    Wahhhaaaa .... wat's the "reward" ah? Btw, the thread is about bull vs. bear (not santorini vs. mi casa hor) .... juz in case pp get too carried away lah

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    Which is Santorini which is Mi Casa ... reward for correct guess

    Wahhhaaaa .... wat's the "reward" ah? Btw, the thread is about bull vs. bear (not santorini vs. mi casa hor) .... juz in case pp get too carried away lah
    My bad.... shouldn't have brought up Mi Casa in my initial post.....

  8. #38
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    Default Anyone can explain this logic?

    Btw, got a fren staying in Tropica in Tampines and she said that many sellers there recently withdraw their units fm sale coz they said stockmarket rallying so they hope to hold out for more $$$psf....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    i agree ... the rental return for RG is just not good ...
    Pai seh, rental return not only not good fot RG, it's for whole singapore.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Begbie
    I like your thoughts... as it is in line with my purchase profile..well said buddy..
    Thank you. But property agents will dread these thoughts, so to speak.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    Angmor: I just bought the Admiral at River Road for US$500psf, overlooks the Hudson and i can see the whole manhattan skyline. Historically, it used to be one of the landing ports for immigrants to America.

    Frenchie: I just bought a summer home in the French Riviera for US$500psf, slightly inland but can walk to the beach, and to the houses of the rich and famous. This area used to be where Napolean and Josephine were rumored to bonk naked on the sands.

    Singie: I just bought Santorini lifestyle - Mi Casa! Also for US$500 psf.

    Angmor and Frenchie: Wow, you must be rich! US$500 for great views of the Aegean. Sweet!

    Singie: Simi Aegean? My Mi Casa in Choa Chu Kang, last time pig farm, chicken farm, and cemetary. But now, it's Mediterranean with Dancing Blocks!

    Two Morals of the Story:
    • If it sounds too good to true it's probably marketing-speak
    • If your Sales Order states FEO Ltd, you probably just got conned
    I have to salute your superb sense of humour & creativeness.
    Like dat also can..

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    Wah v good ang moh ... especially like the part about TOP, sounds logical ..

    & yes, u've mentioned about timing & ur belief in this before ... it's kinda related to someone's theory about the PPI oso ...
    Thank, glad to have your appreciation. Ya, guess must have said it once somewhere.. you know, people in and out here..

    Hey! Are you stalking my posts? hahahhahah..

  13. #43
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    err...as an example, one of the other assets which they have in their portfolio is The Ferrell Residences which they are developing on their own. I guess they might view that as even more premium, have better prospects and anyway, their asking price would be high and probably cannot be reached yet as the area is not as hot as river valley so they may as well unload their units at RiverGate first.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabian
    I guess if I was in their shoes, trying to improve cashflow, I'd dump assets that are either not going to give me the returns or in danger of going down compared to other assets in my portfolio.

    No way will I release assets that have better prospects.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    Thank, glad to have your appreciation. Ya, guess must have said it once somewhere.. you know, people in and out here..

    Hey! Are you stalking my posts? hahahhahah..
    For those forumers who can write pretty well, kinda lah .. coz I wanna learn & improve my ang-moh (oso kinda doing so for those with sense of humour, hope to get 'tickled' more often ... dun wanna see all gloom & doom leh)!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo

    Two Morals of the Story:
    • If it sounds too good to true it's probably marketing-speak
    • If your Sales Order states FEO Ltd, you probably just got conned
    I like your joke... Damn funny and true to certain extend...

  16. #46
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    Read Biz Times today, sales last week was good with prices up everywhere:

    The Arte - 14 (900-930psf)
    Martin Place R - 60+
    Floridian - 9 (1220psf)
    BelleRive - 5 (1430psf)
    Vida - 2 (2030psf)
    Lake Shore / WFW (9 each)
    Mi casa - 7
    Caspian - 4
    the Mezzo - 25 (850-900psf)

    In secondary market, 50+ Rivergate sold for 1400-1500psf.

  17. #47
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    Perhaps its possible that May sales total >1000 again and this time more than 500 units from sales in CCR?

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Read Biz Times today, sales last week was good with prices up everywhere:

    The Arte - 14 (900-930psf)
    Martin Place R - 60+
    Floridian - 9 (1220psf)
    BelleRive - 5 (1430psf)
    Vida - 2 (2030psf)
    Lake Shore / WFW (9 each)
    Mi casa - 7
    Caspian - 4
    the Mezzo - 25 (850-900psf)

    In secondary market, 50+ Rivergate sold for 1400-1500psf.

  18. #48
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    looking from the poll, we have got more sellers/agents/developers etc here in the forum.... but somehow on stealth mode..

  19. #49
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    buyers can also admit/vote to be bullish even though they hope it will be bearish. There are also people looking to buy more units even though they already own units so they might vote to be bullish too. I am so confused I am neutral and shall refrain from voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Begbie
    looking from the poll, we have got more sellers/agents/developers etc here in the forum.... but somehow on stealth mode..

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    Perhaps its possible that May sales total >1000 again and this time more than 500 units from sales in CCR?
    Highly likely, we already know that Capital land managed to sell 134 units of Wharf Residences in May. Parc Centennial 30+units, Martin Place Residences 140 and still releasing more units this weekend. So, 500 units in May at CCR should be about right.

    If I were Capital land, I will launch 1000-unit Gillman Height at 900-950psf ... the location is excellent.

  21. #51
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    I think they have not done any planning for Gillman yet rite? Would take more than a year. Maybe they will launch farrer Court instead? but they didn't seem to have concerte plans to launch that this year either.



    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Highly likely, we already know that Capital land managed to sell 134 units of Wharf Residences in May. Parc Centennial 30+units, Martin Place Residences 140 and still releasing more units this weekend. So, 500 units in May at CCR should be about right.

    If I were Capital land, I will launch 1000-unit Gillman Height at 900-950psf ... the location is excellent.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by firestarter
    i think market sentiments in the property market is slightly bullish rite now (unlucky for me as i am a potential buyer), however i do not think that this is sustainable... currently in a standoff with a seller with my offer slightly below valuation .. owner asking cov ..

    what are your views?

    I felt the same too. Did some bank valuation and realised that they are 20K to 40K below my offer. I am not comfortable to top up with additional cash and therefore did not buy.

    Most of the agents thinks that the economy has pick up because of the recent stock rally. However, this rally is not able to substain. Stock are flat this 2 weeks. I guess it still back to the fundamental of the economy ie the growth and unemploymemt rate

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    I think they have not done any planning for Gillman yet rite? Would take more than a year. Maybe they will launch farrer Court instead? but they didn't seem to have concerte plans to launch that this year either.
    When they sell Wharf, in the press release, they mentioned about upcoming Gillman Height project. I think they will go for mass market condo 1st just like CDL going to launch Hong Leong Garden becos luxury segment is still facing oversupply problem.

    If I were the developer, I will delay all the highend launches, sell mass market condos, reconfigure mid-end condos to all 1/2 room flats < 900sqft to target the 270k potential 5-room HDB upgraders ... this strategy should work even market is moving sideways for the next few months

    BTW, they got Gillman at 365psf per plot ratio

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unreg
    I felt the same too. Did some bank valuation and realised that they are 20K to 40K below my offer. I am not comfortable to top up with additional cash and therefore did not buy.

    Most of the agents thinks that the economy has pick up because of the recent stock rally. However, this rally is not able to substain. Stock are flat this 2 weeks. I guess it still back to the fundamental of the economy ie the growth and unemploymemt rate
    Then hold your purchases especially if you are not in a hurry to buy. When the crisis started last year end and prices started to drop, people say will drop further. The reason I noted people are comparing prices from current low against the previously low in 2003-2005.

    However, the conditions are different. Previously, the starting pay of many people are low. In addition, there wasn't any IR in the near future.

    I believe that prices should go down but people must always factor in reasons to justify. Basing on guts feel that the recent stock rally is not substainable? 2009 is already half way through. Yes, this is a tough year and to think that next year is going to be tougher? Then all the measures of various govt must be ineffective. I do not cast aside the doubt of that possibility. However, when it become worst, will you still buy a property?

    Similarly, that was what I heard when people say in that 2 months ago when STI is at 1600 levels. Don't enter the market as it will go lower...a Bear trap... etc.

    Now STI almost stablised at 2,200 level and people start to feel that this is not substainable. So if it is not substainable, what is the level you think it will be? When it is at that level, will you buy?

    For property purchases, various factors have to be considered. Once a unit is gone, it is gone. You can never buy back the same unit within a short term unless due to special reason.

  25. #55
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    that could mean a long wait? they just (finally) completed the deal for gillman last friday! so it could take a long while before its launch ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    When they sell Wharf, in the press release, they mentioned about upcoming Gillman Height project. I think they will go for mass market condo 1st just like CDL going to launch Hong Leong Garden becos luxury segment is still facing oversupply problem.

    If I were the developer, I will delay all the highend launches, sell mass market condos, reconfigure mid-end condos to all 1/2 room flats < 900sqft to target the 270k potential 5-room HDB upgraders ... this strategy should work even market is moving sideways for the next few months

    BTW, they got Gillman at 365psf per plot ratio

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    that could mean a long wait? they just (finally) completed the deal for gillman last friday! so it could take a long while before its launch ready.
    seems the property market is really taking cue from stock mkt ..

    today STI negative ... even this forum is dead quiet ...

    thought there would be some smart agents who would go around : "Today market down ..prices subdued..buy now before STI turn up again tomorrow .."

  27. #57
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    speaking of which, agents have been quiet on this forum for a week, perhaps their business is good, thus, no time to come online.

    STI could possibly be down again tomorrow if US is down tonight so maybe the agents will run your advertising gig tomorrow. On the other hand, surely the property market can't be correlated to the STI on a daily basis?!

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    seems the property market is really taking cue from stock mkt ..

    today STI negative ... even this forum is dead quiet ...

    thought there would be some smart agents who would go around : "Today market down ..prices subdued..buy now before STI turn up again tomorrow .."

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    speaking of which, agents have been quiet on this forum for a week, perhaps their business is good, thus, no time to come online.

    STI could possibly be down again tomorrow if US is down tonight so maybe the agents will run your advertising gig tomorrow. On the other hand, surely the property market can't be correlated to the STI on a daily basis?!
    Surely not daily, but watch out on important break of support or resistance point of property stocks that have high exposure to residential properties. The 200 day moving average is an extremely important trend line as it is the divider btn bull & bear.

    For the past few weeks, Singapore property stocks has shown strength relative to STI & S&P500 but it may run out of steam if S&P500's support at 875 is broken this week.

    A bull market climbs walls of worries. Even if this is a bear market rally, I don't think it will end so soon due to the fact that lots of funds actually missed the boat.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Surely not daily, but watch out on important break of support or resistance point of property stocks that have high exposure to residential properties. The 200 day moving average is an extremely important trend line as it is the divider btn bull & bear.

    For the past few weeks, Singapore property stocks has shown strength relative to STI & S&P500 but it may run out of steam if S&P500's support at 875 is broken this week.

    A bull market climbs walls of worries. Even if this is a bear market rally, I don't think it will end so soon due to the fact that lots of funds actually missed the boat.
    But a lot of funds did bail out of Singapore too. BTW, the SPC bail out is making a lot ppl uneasy.

    On the index, I have said a dozen of times in this forum but can't help to keep repeating again.. don't know why, perhaps of those fact "deny-er". It not complex, it simple.

    STI still downright off -30% from a year ago 3300. So did the property you eyeing off -30% from a year transact price? If no, then how can the recent rally push up property price?

    If I use S&P or DJ, the comparison will be worse against Singapore property.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple3
    But a lot of funds did bail out of Singapore too. BTW, the SPC bail out is making a lot ppl uneasy.

    On the index, I have said a dozen of times in this forum but can't help to keep repeating again.. don't know why, perhaps of those fact "deny-er". It not complex, it simple.

    STI still downright off -30% from a year ago 3300. So did the property you eyeing off -30% from a year transact price? If no, then how can the recent rally push up property price?

    If I use S&P or DJ, the comparison will be worse against Singapore property.
    I agree with you. This is due to different dynamics (supply & demand etc) in stock and property market. In general, there is a correlation but it may not be 1 to 1. Sometimes, property will outperform STI e.g. property bubble at 1996. Sometimes, property will underperform STI e.g. (2003-2006). Therefore, the rebound of STI from a low of 1,500 to 2,200 does not mean property market must also rebound the same magnitude (it could be +1/2% in Q3 for example compared to a +30% in STI). However, do you agree that technical analysis of STI (or more importantly property stocks) may help to time your purchase & sale of properties at the bottom or peak of property cycles?

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