Hmm, OK, I'll need to double check then. Do you recall the size of his/her unit?Originally Posted by coburn
Newbie
Hmm, OK, I'll need to double check then. Do you recall the size of his/her unit?
Newbie
Hi hungrypillow,
Actually at PropertyGuru, I do see quite a number of large units from Euro-Asia Park on sale. One of which is 2250sqft, 5 bedrooms, asking for $1.15M.
You can take a look if keen.
My in law is also keen on a small unit (1 to 2 bedders) near our place at Parc Mondrian. Do you know if there are any small units at Euro-Asia since you have viewed that place before? Budget is not much, abt $500k. I am not that keen on the new launch at Woodleigh Close by Frasers Centerpoint cos that is a 99-year leasehold unit. But the rest of the devts dun seem to have anything that fit this budget. =p
Newbie
Hey mondrian,
I've actually seen that S$1.15M unit and made an offer a while ago at S$1M, but the agent told me the offer was "offensive" and never called me back so that was that.
I'm not sure if there are any smaller units at Euro-Asia, as I only took a look at the penthouse. The other penthouse units are not wheelchair friendly as they have steps leading to the elevator.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful
Newbie
just confirmed with him...
1399sf
seems small for a 4BR though... but he confirm it is 4BR lah..
Junior
THen you never offer him your most "vulgar" offer?Hey mondrian,
I've actually seen that S$1.15M unit and made an offer a while ago at S$1M, but the agent told me the offer was "offensive" and never called me back so that was that.
I'm not sure if there are any smaller units at Euro-Asia, as I only took a look at the penthouse. The other penthouse units are not wheelchair friendly as they have steps leading to the elevator.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful..
but looks like the agent got lotsa enquiries to be able to do that to you
Newbie
Hi Hungrypillow,
Thanks for the reply. It's alright. My in-law isn't in any urgent need of a home. He has his own HDB flat in Holland right now. It's just that he's getting on years, so moving really near us makes a lot more sense. But since my mother in law passed on years ago, I just need a studio unit that can accomodate 1 pax. So if Frasers launch the 4xxsqft unit at Woodleigh Close at $7xxpsf, it could potentially work out to be $3xxk and I will seriously consider that, 99-year nonethess. But a studio unit there really is a poor investment and hardly any resale value. Nonetheless, we are looking for it for self-stay purposes, so that's another matter.
Hey, out of my kaypoh-ness, since I stay currently right next to Intero as u know, I noticed that out of the 4 penthouse units, 3 have been occupied for really quite some time. The only penthse unit that is left vacant till now is the one facing Woodsville 28. That unit not too bad, despite all the brickbats about Intero's finishings/quality. It is facing McPherson, no noon sun, and u get more privacy cos it's not facing my apt block. Just 2 cents worth. I know the pain of house-hunting. So hope this helps.
Newbie
Who are u offending with that offer? To owner or to him?Hey mondrian,
I've actually seen that S$1.15M unit and made an offer a while ago at S$1M, but the agent told me the offer was "offensive" and never called me back so that was that.
I'm not sure if there are any smaller units at Euro-Asia, as I only took a look at the penthouse. The other penthouse units are not wheelchair friendly as they have steps leading to the elevator.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful
Please lah... tell him that part of the money that is coming out from ur purchase will go to him... so if it is offensive, then dun take the commission lor since he so offended....
If no sale then how to make money for him.. ??
If i am the agent, i will at least try mah... Try won't die right? Only maybe kena spit a bit from seller...but if successful can close deal and move on right??
Newbie
THen you never offer him your most "vulgar" offer?
but looks like the agent got lotsa enquiries to be able to do that to youWell, my offer was about 2 months ago. Back then they were asking 1.29M. I asked 4-5 banks and the valuations all came back at 1M (OCBC even said 950K), so I thought I offer at valuation = 1M... seems pretty fair to me.
Agent called me back the next day and said the owner was offended, so I said I'M offended that she's offended, and I hung up. Now it's still for sale and asking only 1.15M, but I really can't be fked to deal with that agent/seller again, so nvm.
Thanks for the info, really appreciate itI did manage to take a look at that penthouse you are talking about, but I feel for my needs it's still a bit cramped. At this point I am thinking I may just buy a condo for my mom to stay in and buy HDB for myself and fiancee that is close to my mom's condo...
Newbie
While I was having dinner my agent msged me.."Free to talk?"
So i called back after twenty minutes.. and he said..
"Bro, the developer is upping the price again by this weekend (the developer already up by 20K last weekend) , if you want pls offer quickly before this weekend.."
Thats a price increase of at least 30-40 k within 2 weeks... I'm stunned..
Told him I will discuss with my wife and get back to him...but I know chasing prices are against my better judgment...
What do you folks reckon? should I or should I not?
Junior
The question is that can you afford to miss the boat and can you afford the current price? Let's assume the following probability:
1. Price keep creeping up in V-shape. You may never see ppi at 140 in your life time again, 30%
2. Another damn serious blackswan event happen, price go down to what u want (but HDB resale price may also plunge) say 15% chance
3. L or U-shape, price stabilizes but still out of your dream price for 2 years and then cheong, 55%
Price now confirmed not peak .. still long way to go.
Last edited by jitkiat; 25-05-09 at 23:41.
Senior
bloody sales tactics dnt fall 4 it. Buy based on ur own research nt wat the agent says. I hv agents trying to hardsell lucida and many other d11 n 12 proj to me last year at hi psf with same tactic n there are still lots of available units for sme of these dev ths yr.
Junior
Personally i wouldn't be bothered about how the general market moves or chases up prices.
I would treat property purchase like a business transaction, maciam i am a fund manager
No one can or should teach you what to do. You've already done your research, and probably have a gut feel on what to do. Don't seek confirmation in forums - no one's an expert here and you might lose focus.
- Does it pass my kopi/smoke environmental test (can i live in such a place and it's environment?)
- Has it dropped by at least 40% off peak? Is is close to 2005/2006 prices (i'm being generous here)?
- Am i paying more than the usual 10-15% premium for a new condo vs surrounding development?
- Is the PE ratio more than 20x? (i calculate it as mortgage payment pm vs rental income pm)
- Is there any substantial upside for the locality from external/govt infrastructure devt and other forces - so that i can have virtually assured capital gains?
You know the adage: Buy when there's seller blood in the streets, sell when everyone's buying
Junior
This does not make sense to me. Are you saying if you pay 3k per month for mortgage and your rental income is 3k per month, then PE ratio is at 1, then it is good ?! Do you assume you take a 80% bank loan but for how long?
And expecting 2005 price is not generous, it is unfair/cruel for those who took risk at 2005 with the subsequent great GDP expansion at 2006/07/08. Anyway, it may not be possible anymore.
Junior
Cost of property consists of:
1. Land cost - land sold prior to 2005/06 does not price in all the new MRT lines and 2008 Master Plan, 4th uni blah blah ... going forward, do you think government will sell land at the same level as in 2003/04/05 ??
2. Construction cost - oil price was below 40USD from 2002-2006, do you expect oil price to go below 40USD in the coming years? Basically basic construction material cost is indirectly affected by oil price. Do remember China/India are competing for the commodities used in construction.
3. Develeper profit margin - need not explain
And mass/mid-end condo price also affected by HDB resale price, affordability improves when it is relatively higher, if you check May transaction price, it is still creeping up even in Punggol!!!
So, is it realistic to expect 2005/06 prices?
Junior
Sorry, i meant at current top rental rate how many years does it take to fully pay off the loan.
Junior
Hmm ... in that case, your PE is a moving target as rental rate and interest rate are not constant. Ok, assume they average out, so you are saying if I borrow 80% for 20 years with monthly payment of 2.7k and if I rent out 3k, (- property tax blah, maintenance), so the PE is at 20 ?
Newbie
Thanks for your advice folks..
This morning i raised the issue to my wife..the moment she heard it... her face starts flushing red, eyeballs popped out and rolled everywhere...
Being the "true" singaporean man who loves my wife.. i immediately retorted with conviction.."Dear i gotta go toilet, got stomachache.."
So while on the way to the loo, deftly i picked up my handphone, called the agent while in the loo and said..
"Sorry dude, after lenghty discussion with the missus in this regard, we decided in unanimously we're going to let this go..Thanks for your help again.."
On the part of the agent, I have nothing against him, he is just doing his job ...and trying to make ends meet. Its only up to potential buyers if they wanna fall into this charade...
To gfoo, regulators, jitkiat and who else i've not mentioned.. thanks again for your kind advice... but yeah... I believe the decision was made this morning in the true Singaporean way....
Junior
lol my wife does this too. That's why i got really worried when she went for lasik a couple of years back. We don't pay the maid enuff to clean up cornea juice after us.
Newbie
The phase in bold don't make sense. There is no such things in the business world.
In any case, to ask for exorbitant price is a seller entitlement but to ask for any rock-bottom price is a buyer privilege. Thats what a free market is for, comparable to counters bidding/asking price.
Junior
Mr apple3, do u always need to be so logical
Newbie
Nah.. I could also be sarcastic, sadistic and abusive if you prefer and on the menu as the "Catch of the Day".Mr apple3, do u always need to be so logical
Newbie
While its true there are many positive developments since 2005/2006, pls also note that due to the en-bloc craze recently, many developers churn out 3x the units compared to the old developments. And this is on top of additional new supply from govt land sales. Just think, in the mid-term, are we going to see an explosion/ exodus of people coming to Singapore to take up this excess supply? Or is it going to be instead a reduction in people or stable population? Even if population is stable, we will still see 3x additional supply of condos compared to pre-2005 days.
Yes, I hear many bulls here say, dun worry, if rental low, just dun rent lor, investors are rich enough to rather keep the units empty. This is really bullcrap to me. There will be marginal investors out there who need to rely on rentals to cover their loans or need to sell at distress prices. There will also be global investors who find that properties in other cities like London, Hong Kong etc more attractive than Singapore. I recently viewed a unit at Pandan Valley and the owner is desperate to close the deal at $674 psf for a 1335 sqf unit. Reason being they find London properties much more attractive than Singapore.
For people who really need a roof, I suggest renting instead. There are so many to choose from in prime districts. For investors, no need to rush in too. Especially with the recent sudden increase in asking prices of sellers. Prices just hasnt dropped low enough and if buying it just for capital appreciation in the mid-term and keeping it empty, blue chip shares would be a better bet, with dividends to boot.
And the costs of construction will not be increasing much. Have you forgotten that we are now in the middle of a recession? The massive spike in prices pre-lehman days were due to speculators driving up prices + Beijing Olympics but those days are over dude. Everyone now is trying to avoid deflation. Yeah, prices may not be as low, but I wouldnt expect it to shoot through the roof either. So, pls do not buy into developers smokescreen that costs of construction are going up. I say, then maybe you have to reduce others admin costs if developers still want to mantain margins.
Last edited by HP65; 27-05-09 at 08:22.
Newbie
Hahaha, since when do we need to be fair in our property dealings? When I was making profits from my properties, never have I thought `oh, I think I have exceeded my ROI, I will pass on some of my extra ROI to the buyer by reducing my asking price.' Similarly, when I was renting out my D10 3 bedroom apt from 2002-2005 at $1500-1800 p/m, I didnt ask the tenant to be fair to me.
Jitkiat, you may have been a kind soul and gullible enough to believe developer's arguments and bought a condo recently, but please do not ask others to join you on your bandwagon. While I also hope property prices will increase to 2007 levels so I can sell my 2 investment properties, I dont see it coming anytime soon. Meanwhile, I just rent them out for a return of 6% Net and pass it on to my 2 sons when they reach 21.
Senior
thats the beauty of a Freehold ... the value stays pretty well ... till the reach 21 ..
in general , but true to leasehold
Newbie
I received 2 sms today from 2 different agents telling me if I dun buy now the price will up again soon. Ask me to faster commit too!
by the way, the seller is asking prices that is even higher than 2008 prices, I think it is not fair.
Newbie
Life is not about fairness.. its up to you if u wanna bite, no one can tell u otherwise..
Price is just dollars and cents, but if it doesn't match with what you perceive as the dollar value you're paying..then dont...
But if you do, then go ahead...
Good luck with your search ...
Newbie
ya ya...I did not expect any fairness lah...but this jitkiat was mentioning abt fairness you see so trying to tell him there are alot of unfair cases around.
Junior
Looks like my "fairness" is taken way out of context. I was replying to someone's suggestion that the property price should go back to 2005/06 level. My counter argument was that GDP expanded on average of 6% from 2004-2008 and it is going to contract only -6 to -9% this year which just wipes out our growth in year 2008. Assuming property market has a high correlation with GDP growth, then property price should be at year 2007 level right now.
Senior
by the way the agent sms you for which project ? what size ? what psf pls ?
Newbie
carabelle, 2BR/3BR, 780psf~800psf
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