Expect false starts and slow recovery

[teddybear]

My understanding of the 3:

The Rich buy and acquire Asset. - Buy Properties.
The Poor only have expenditure. - Spend on all sort of branded goods & restaurants etc, then say each month must spend so much money otherwise cannot survive in Singapore because living expenses too high blah blah (create excuses for themselves?).
The Middle-Income buy Liability thinking they are Asset. - Buy branded cars & structured deposits?

then you take buffet advises loh;
Fear when others is Greedy, And Greedy when others Fear.

But personally I like this one by Rich Daddy Poor Daddy;
something like dat;

The Rich buy and acquire Asset.
The Poor only have expenditure.
The Middle-Income buy Liability thinking they are Asset.

[blackswan]

since there's some mention of books (Rich Dad Poor dad) here, in these volatile times, there's quite a number of times that I re-read the book "Foolded By Randomness". Have just purchased "The Black Swan" by the same author, believe that it will be as enlightening as his previous book.

[apple3]

My understanding of the 3:

The Rich buy and acquire Asset. - Buy Properties.
The Poor only have expenditure. - Spend on all sort of branded goods & restaurants etc, then say each month must spend so much money otherwise cannot survive in Singapore because living expenses too high blah blah (create excuses for themselves?).
The Middle-Income buy Liability thinking they are Asset. - Buy branded cars & structured deposits?

Don't quite agree on this..
Some poor are really very bad-off and need some serious help. As well as some "hamburgers" with 2 aged parent + 2 young kid and wife sick cannot work.

And some you don't see them in this forum cause they only could wish their children could live well and get a condo, their concern is the PUB bill that had already sent the pink note.

[hans]

I do follow buffet advice, made a handsome profit (properties, stocks and commodities) from 2002 to date.

I also 100% agree with rich dad poor dad on the 3 you mentioned.

then you take buffet advises loh;
Fear when others is Greedy, And Greedy when others Fear.

But personally I like this one by Rich Daddy Poor Daddy;
something like dat;

The Rich buy and acquire Asset.
The Poor only have expenditure.
The Middle-Income buy Liability thinking they are Asset.

[apple3]

since there's some mention of books (Rich Dad Poor dad) here, in these volatile times, there's quite a number of times that I re-read the book "Foolded By Randomness". Have just purchased "The Black Swan" by the same author, believe that it will be as enlightening as his previous book.

I will try to get my hand on it.

now I know how your nick came by.

as for mine.. I study no high so 1st day in school they taught A for Apple.. so you see I ermm..

[dmonddd]

my major then was management. but gave up on reading more of such books as authors and we all differ in cultures. but one thing for sure, the authors made fame and $$ from these books.

advices are free and no harm for anyone to throw in theirs.
i remember one incident when one relative asked me for advice on property purchase not too long after my graduation......

and aiyo yo...guess what. i believe i shouldnt have done so. i learnt that ultimately the person investing or buying for own stay is the one making the final call.

When someone asks for advice for purchase of stocks or property, they would have decided deep down inside but wanted reaffirmation/support.

for all out there, see the market by yourself and feel the market on your own and you will make the right decision. jedi master aaaahhhhhhhhh

[hans]

That why the rich is getting richer, the poor is getting poorer.

And i understand your view point, most of their jobs are taken over by foreigners, cos their salary is lower than singaporeans.

Don't quite agree on this..
Some poor are really very bad-off and need some serious help. As well as some "hamburgers" with 2 aged parent + 2 young kid and wife sick cannot work.

And some you don't see them in this forum cause they only could wish their children could live well and get a condo, their concern is the PUB bill that had already sent the pink note.

[apple3]

I do follow buffet advice, made a handsome profit (properties, stocks and commodities) from 2002 to date.

I also 100% agree with rich dad poor dad on the 3 you mentioned.

Good for you.. you lucky smart ass...
Care to spend some penny for the poor?

#Rule 1. Never tell ppl you make $$$... hahahhahha..

[hans]

#rule 1 noted. will keep in mind

Good for you.. you lucky smart ass...
Care to spend some penny for the poor?

#Rule 1. Never tell ppl you make $$$... hahahhahha..

[jitkiat]

Foremost, maybe we could keep this exchange be "dynamic" & constructive yet no hard feeling. K? coolz.

I singled out CityDev bcos we are in a property forum mah.
Then why not Capitaland, Capitamall & HKLand + another 2 diverse SPH & F&N? They are also index stock like Citydev in STI. Why? Because City had a high double gain? or Capitaland underperform?
[JK] I think Capitaland, UOL and CityDev all are breaking resistance with good volume. It is fair to just pick one of them as the representative for illustration.

Property stock price is a leading indicator of property market health.
This is debatable. But, even if it an indicator, the react time is widely accepted to be 6mths by industry standard. Even analysis in BT said 9mths. And you are talking abt Q209, now?

[JK] Well, if you wait for another 6mths and you wait till October for Q3 data to be out, the Q32009 data did confirm a recovery say the private residential index is at 150, STI is probably at 2600 and most property stocks would have recovered another 20%. What will be the selling price of property that you are targetting at that time? What is the chance that it is lower compared to now and are you sure you are still able to get the unit that you want? Therefore, you must buy a property when a bottom in stock market is confirmed not when the private residential index tells you so.

technical chartist analyzes chart and tries to predict the probability of upside/downside
Precisely I'm trying to emphasize that since STI drop from 3300 a year back to now 2000 and property price did NOT correct downward proportionly, how could you then chart upward by proportion against STI or even S&P?? Goodness! You never answer this question yet bring kopi and tea out..
[JK] If u look at the chart for high-end condos, it does track the STI in proportion. For mid-end/mass-market condo, it is to a lesser degree, go up less so come down less. Again, when STI broke 1950 today, it does confirm to a high probability that the worst is over. To me, this is the best time to buy a property. You can sit on the sidelines and hope that the worst is yet to come ... but what is the probability? Of course anything can happen, the Swine flu virus can suddenly mutate and kill half of Singaporeans then propery index will crash ...

And the fact is that the stock market brushes aside all bad news like Swine Flu and Citi/BAC requirement to raise capital and breaking key resistance level today with strong volume.
It double edge sword my friend. The fact that the market is brushing away the bad elements and YET there are little ground to sustain the rally is causing some nerves tweaking. We may be seeing punters and not investors back in the market.

[JK] Little ground? That is because the buyers know something that the public don't know. Very soon you will find out why the market keeps going up.

Amplify bullish context, may be a little as I have vested interest in properties.
Nope. You "glorify" bull a lot.. which is more than a little but less than too much. Expecially after you committed DB. I have covered most of your threads before I launch this crusade.

I mean it alright to be bullish especially if so much effort, time and research had been conducted in search of your dream home. Which I think by now you are a Simei prop expert and I should have congrat you of upgrading from the 85% with a nice built-up by UOL, so to speak. But, I don't see the point of zooming in selective context and amplify it. A sin call "mis-leding" tend to commit in the process.

Coolz..

[JK] Isn't it equally misleading to ask people who can afford a property to "wait" for another 6 months?

[apple3]

my major then was management. but gave up on reading more of such books as authors and we all differ in cultures. but one thing for sure, the authors made fame and $$ from these books.

advices are free and no harm for anyone to throw in theirs.
i remember one incident when one relative asked me for advice on property purchase not too long after my graduation......

and aiyo yo...guess what. i believe i shouldnt have done so. i learnt that ultimately the person investing or buying for own stay is the one making the final call.

When someone asks for advice for purchase of stocks or property, they would have decided deep down inside but wanted reaffirmation/support.

for all out there, see the market by yourself and feel the market on your own and you will make the right decision. jedi master aaaahhhhhhhhh

I know what you mean and well.. don't bother too much.
Recently someone ask me about property, as follow;

Richie: I want buy property how?
Apple3: Hold on if for investment.

Richie: If buy for mistress and just hope for capital appreciation when she broke off with me?

Apple3: Then since you rich so just buy what you like loh.

Richie: North East how?
Apple3: Good! Got Pungol Waterway

Richie: North?
Apple3: Good! Got Sport Complex.

Richie: West?
Apple3: Good! Got Jurong Destrict Development.

Richie: South?
Apple3: Good! Got IR.

Richie: East?
Apple3: Good! Got new university.

Richie: Central?
Apple3: Good! Never die district.. Buy lah.. Just buy everythings.. Everything got development one.. Buy while you havent kick the bucket.

[dmonddd]

spare one two pennies for this poor student..

one of my good buddies was cursing this seller three months ago when the seller signed the option and then wanted to back out....and find all excuses in option

Buddy fed up and agree to requests and seller still wants to back out.
buddy is contemplating to take this seller to court. Some ppl advised him that its not worth it...some told him that seller need to be taught a lesson so not to play out future buyers.

buddy said that standard option gives away all the rights of buyers. BEWARE. at the end of the day, just be reasonable in request unless the seller is all out to con my buddy. get lawyer in so that we are not pound foolish...btw im not a lawyer

[apple3]

spare one two pennies for this poor student..

one of my good buddies was cursing this seller three months ago when the seller signed the option and then wanted to back out....and find all excuses in option

Buddy fed up and agree to requests and seller still wants to back out.
buddy is contemplating to take this seller to court. Some ppl advised him that its not worth it...some told him that seller need to be taught a lesson so not to play out future buyers.

buddy said that standard option gives away all the rights of buyers. BEWARE. at the end of the day, just be reasonable in request unless the seller is all out to con my buddy. get lawyer in so that we are not pound foolish...btw im not a lawyer

Common.

Has the cheque from Buyer to Seller for exercising the OTP had been bank in within 14 days starting from the date stating on OPT?

If No. Difficult.
If Yes. Difficult to lose. Get a similar property and ask the same lawyer to make claim on the differences/margin+legal. 1st letter around $250 or can free also. If you want I can pass you contact.

PS: Btw, if I'm your buddy I go all the way. You dont serve writ immediately. Got legal letter, abritation.. etc. Even go court also nvm.

[apple3]

[JK] Isn't it equally misleading to ask people who can afford a property to "wait" for another 6 months?

I could only guess what you trying to say;

You see;

Analysis in BT take historical + track record < Past. On Overall Context.
Your charting take projection + possibility < Future. On Selective Context.

See the differences?

[hans]

The seller issue the option to purchase to the buyer. What kind of excuses is the seller faulting in the option?

Otion to purchase gives the buyer the right to buy, if the option is not exercise, the buyer forfeit the deposit. Not the other way round.

spare one two pennies for this poor student..

one of my good buddies was cursing this seller three months ago when the seller signed the option and then wanted to back out....and find all excuses in option

Buddy fed up and agree to requests and seller still wants to back out.
buddy is contemplating to take this seller to court. Some ppl advised him that its not worth it...some told him that seller need to be taught a lesson so not to play out future buyers.

buddy said that standard option gives away all the rights of buyers. BEWARE. at the end of the day, just be reasonable in request unless the seller is all out to con my buddy. get lawyer in so that we are not pound foolish...btw im not a lawyer

[dmonddd]

The seller issue the option to purchase to the buyer. What kind of excuses is the seller faulting in the option?

Otion to purchase gives the buyer the right to buy, if the option is not exercise, the buyer forfeit the deposit. Not the other way round.

seller quoting that he cant perform this and that under option. asked my buddy to agree to accept changes and my buddy ok'd.

deposit is with seller....so if he wants to back out, he just need to return the deposit to my buddy, right?

[kgchong]

seller quoting that he cant perform this and that under option. asked my buddy to agree to accept changes and my buddy ok'd.

deposit is with seller....so if he wants to back out, he just need to return the deposit to my buddy, right?

once the option signed by the seller... and option fees bank in... consider the seller is bound by the option to sell....

so your buddy no need to comply with anything the seller said.... that is all BS....

[hans]

In the option, there is the seller and buyer names, the property address, the selling price, the option deposit amount, the exercise date, the seller lawyers. what can't the seller perform???

You mean after 3 months, the cheque is still with seller!

By the way, what kind of property is this, private or HDB.
Any agent involve?

seller quoting that he cant perform this and that under option. asked my buddy to agree to accept changes and my buddy ok'd.

deposit is with seller....so if he wants to back out, he just need to return the deposit to my buddy, right?

[apple3]

In the option, there is the seller and buyer names, the property address, the selling price, the option deposit amount, the exercise date, the seller lawyers. what can't the seller perform???

You mean after 3 months, the cheque is still with seller!

By the way, what kind of property is this, private or HDB.
Any agent involve?

Yup. I miss that piece out. Where the damm agent?

Nowsaday it seems to me agent are transparent.

[dmonddd]

once the option signed by the seller... and option fees bank in... consider the seller is bound by the option to sell....

so your buddy no need to comply with anything the seller said.... that is all BS....

thanks to all...my buddy being naive, agreed to all his requests to amend as he just want the property. looks like there's a lot of people who take others for a ride...a long ride.

and he has not taken a look at other unit (as mentioned by apple3) within the same project. anyway most people would just suffer in silence and move on. i hope sellers out there are honorable. the seller even used his agent to speak to my buddy. 1% banked in by seller. and 4% with his lawyers...and seller still wants to amend some clauses. my buddy is strugglng hard to speed up drawdown as seller asked my buddy to cut short the completion time and my buddy agreed.....

[dmonddd]

Yup. I miss that piece out. Where the damm agent?

Nowsaday it seems to me agent are transparent.

only one agent...seller's agent.

[hans]

The seller's agent talking to your bubby is normal, cos agent representing seller.

You were saying 1% banked in, 4% with his lawyer, (your bubby's lawyer, right). The sale and purchase agreement has been signed. I assume this is a private property. What the hell is the lawyer doing?

I assume your buddy also has a bank loan, who is going to bear the cancallation of loan?

Shorter completion is normal, as long both parties agreed to it and the lawyers say can be completed in that time frame.

Since you buddy wants that property, go all the way for it. Tell to his lawyer to complete the sale

thanks to all...my buddy being naive, agreed to all his requests to amend as he just want the property. looks like there's a lot of people who take others for a ride...a long ride.

and he has not taken a look at other unit (as mentioned by apple3) within the same project. anyway most people would just suffer in silence and move on. i hope sellers out there are honorable. the seller even used his agent to speak to my buddy. 1% banked in by seller. and 4% with his lawyers...and seller still wants to amend some clauses. my buddy is strugglng hard to speed up drawdown as seller asked my buddy to cut short the completion time and my buddy agreed.....

[dmonddd]

The seller's agent talking to your bubby is normal, cos agent representing seller.

You were saying 1% banked in, 4% with his lawyer, (your bubby's lawyer, right). The sale and purchase agreement has been signed. I assume this is a private property. What the hell is the lawyer doing?

I assume your buddy also has a bank loan, who is going to bear the cancallation of loan?

Shorter completion is normal, as long both parties agreed to it and the lawyers say can be completed in that time frame.

Since you buddy wants that property, go all the way for it. Tell to his lawyer to complete the sale

looks like i see a lot of experienced forum members
Sorry, this is a completed private property
4% with seller's lawyer holding as stakeholder. no S&P agreement
my buddy's lawyer is taking care of the loan agreement. lawyer said OTP changes up to my buddy..is that correct? i thought that buddy's lawyer also protecting the bank.

yes my buddy wants the property for his wedding but seller seems to want to back out, as seller thinks he can sell for higher price.
anyway, two schools gave my buddy different opinions....most say go all out and get the property. others advsied him to move on with another property. Buddy damn confused. future wife nagging him every day. damn sien to see buddy like that. from what i hear, my buddy has a case

[hans]

oops, S&P only new developments.

What is there to change in the OTP? The contract has been signed by both parties on the fixed price and exercise by the buyer. Now the buyer cannot back out of the deal.

The buyer's lawyer protects the buyer interest not the bank, the buyer pay the legals fees, the bank subsidies the fee only.

The lawyer has to do all the legal searches on the property and seller.

Wait a minute, I smell something fisher here, what if the prices fall farther, you buddy brought another place. That idiot seller turns around and ask you buddy to complete the sale. He will be in deep shit.

My advise is. Since OTP has been signed and exercise, and your buddy wants that property for his wedding. INSTRUCT the lawyer to complete the sale.

looks like i see a lot of experienced forum members
Sorry, this is a completed private property
4% with seller's lawyer holding as stakeholder. no S&P agreement
my buddy's lawyer is taking care of the loan agreement. lawyer said OTP changes up to my buddy..is that correct? i thought that buddy's lawyer also protecting the bank.

yes my buddy wants the property for his wedding but seller seems to want to back out, as seller thinks he can sell for higher price.
anyway, two schools gave my buddy different opinions....most say go all out and get the property. others advsied him to move on with another property. Buddy damn confused. future wife nagging him every day. damn sien to see buddy like that. from what i hear, my buddy has a case

[dmonddd]

oops, S&P only new developments.

What is there to change in the OTP? The contract has been signed by both parties on the fixed price and exercise by the buyer. Now the buyer cannot back out of the deal.

The buyer's lawyer protects the buyer interest not the bank, the buyer pay the legals fees, the bank subsidies the fee only.

The lawyer has to do all the legal searches on the property and seller.

Wait a minute, I smell something fisher here, what if the prices fall farther, you buddy brought another place. That idiot seller turns around and ask you buddy to complete the sale. He will be in deep shit.

My advise is. Since OTP has been signed and exercise, and your buddy wants that property for his wedding. INSTRUCT the lawyer to complete the sale.

thanks bro...but seller now wants to back out. but buddy wants to complete. anyway, i will ask buddy to speak to his lawyer from now on.

[hans]

Be careful of this situation, the seller says now want to back out, later says wants to complete. By the way, the completion should be near already.

thanks bro...but seller now wants to back out. but buddy wants to complete. anyway, i will ask buddy to speak to his lawyer from now on.

[jitkiat]

Here I come again to amplify bullish context :

The Straits Times Index (STI) surged 5.65 per cent or 108.43 points to 2,028.71 - its highest level since the October global market plunge. Investors here snapped up banking stocks and key property plays. 'The markets are saying the worst is over. They're expecting things to improve in the second half of the year,' said Mr Kevin Scully, executive chairman of stock research firm Net-Research Asia. He said the spectacular rally was driven by the fresh funds pouring into Asia on the back of hopes of an early economic recovery.

[teddybear]

Why don't you buddy just consult his lawyer regarding his rights & obligations & those of seller? What is his lawyer for? If lawyer not doing his job, complain to Law Society.

thanks bro...but seller now wants to back out. but buddy wants to complete. anyway, i will ask buddy to speak to his lawyer from now on.

[apple3]

Here I come again to amplify bullish context :

The Straits Times Index (STI) surged 5.65 per cent or 108.43 points to 2,028.71 - its highest level since the October global market plunge. Investors here snapped up banking stocks and key property plays. 'The markets are saying the worst is over. They're expecting things to improve in the second half of the year,' said Mr Kevin Scully, executive chairman of stock research firm Net-Research Asia. He said the spectacular rally was driven by the fresh funds pouring into Asia on the back of hopes of an early economic recovery.

Ok. So.. then? ...?
...
... ....

Quick Quick!!! Everyone look here, Mr Kiat had some profound findings for all!!

After SGX close @ 5pm today, with all indexs going up from NYSE to Hang Seng to SGX, all property price will be moving upward accordingly!

In fact, Mr Kiat has already show us the light in the dark tunnel! Property will recover in Q2-2009. Yes! Q2, that is April-May-June 2009!

Oh my gosh!! We are already in May, bottom over, out of the dark and in the summer grace! What are all of you doing? Hurried go get whatever OTP you could..

Like dat can? Mr Kiat?

[jitkiat]

Ok. So.. then? ...?
...
... ....

Quick Quick!!! Everyone look here, Mr Kiat had some profound findings for all!!

After SGX close @ 5pm today, with all indexs going up from NYSE to Hang Seng to SGX, all property price will be moving upward accordingly!

In fact, Mr Kiat has already show us the light in the dark tunnel! Property will recover in Q2-2009. Yes! Q2, that is April-May-June 2009!

Oh my gosh!! We are already in May, bottom over, out of the dark and in the summer grace! What are all of you doing? Hurried go get whatever OTP you could..

Like dat can? Mr Kiat?

No need to use such sarcastic tone even you have different opinions