Illuminaire (D9, Freehold, EL Development)

[franzmark]

if these chicken coop buyers cant afford the monthly mortgage, the solution for them is simple, just rent out their units. there wont be difficulty for them to find tenants working in town especially when they wont mind paying more for rental just to stay away from the mad morning rush hour every day. i think these buyers must have done some serious research before they snap up the units.

[Party]

if these chicken coop buyers cant afford the monthly mortgage, the solution for them is simple, just rent out their units. there wont be difficulty for them to find tenants working in town especially when they wont mind paying more for rental just to stay away from the mad morning rush hour every day. i think these buyers must have done some serious research before they snap up the units.

Good answer, as far as i am concern buyer still got 3 years to play around before TOP..... i am no crystal ball but i tink the economy will step up by then.......

[franzmark]

3 years or no 3 years, i think these buyers have nothing to lose. i could have dumped my money in a mickey mouse unit in this project, but my philosophy of buying a condo is to always buy a place where there is a possiblility of me living in it. for me 4xxsf is really too small for me to even consider living in it. what more, the funny looking bomb shelter as a talking piece in the middle of the living room is another turn off for me...

Good answer, as far as i am concern buyer still got 3 years to play around before TOP..... i am no crystal ball but i tink the economy will step up by then.......

[stalingrad]

if these chicken coop buyers cant afford the monthly mortgage, the solution for them is simple, just rent out their units. there wont be difficulty for them to find tenants working in town especially when they wont mind paying more for rental just to stay away from the mad morning rush hour every day. i think these buyers must have done some serious research before they snap up the units.

yes, if can rent them out if they can find tenants. But can they find tenants willing and able to pay the high rent after TOP? Even today, many high end condos cannot find enough tenants to fill the units. How do you know economy is going to recover in three years' time? Even if the economy improves, there is no guarantee that there will be enough expats in town to provide sufficient demand to keep the rent high.

As Paul Krugman said, this is going to be an L shaped recession.

[Acer]

To all buyer of Illuminaire project at Devonshire road and has the intention to remove the HD door or hutton agent said those door can be remove and keep and put it back when you wana sell


Here is the extract from SCDF


Under Civil Defence Shelter Act 1997
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?actno=REVED-42A&doctitle=CIVIL%20DEFENCE%20SHELTER%20ACT%0A&date=latest&method=part&sl=1

the owner or occupier of such house, flat, building or part thereof —
(i) shall not carry out therein, or permit another person to carry out therein, any repair or alteration, or anything else, which is likely to damage or otherwise impair the efficient use of the household or storey shelter as such, except with the written permission of the Commissioner and subject to such conditions as the Commissioner thinks fit;(ii) shall maintain the household or storey shelter in accordance with the regulations and such other directions as the Commissioner may give from time to time; and(iii) shall carry out such works for the maintenance, alteration or improvement of the household or storey shelter or for the installation of any equipment therein as the Commissioner may, from time to time, by writing require.(2) Any person who fails to comply with this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $5,000 and, in the case of a continuing offence, to a further fine not exceeding $250 for every day or part thereof during which the offence continues after conviction


Good luck....

[franzmark]

Those who buy the mickey mouse units at $750000 don't need to collect high rental. $2500 a month would give them 4% rental yield which is quite modest. Anything higher than that is a bonus....

yes, if can rent them out if they can find tenants. But can they find tenants willing and able to pay the high rent after TOP? Even today, many high end condos cannot find enough tenants to fill the units. How do you know economy is going to recover in three years' time? Even if the economy improves, there is no guarantee that there will be enough expats in town to provide sufficient demand to keep the rent high.

As Paul Krugman said, this is going to be an L shaped recession.

[teddybear]

Since when did I ask people to buy "overpriced properties"? How do you define "overpriced"? Overpriced to you doesn't mean it is overpriced to others. Many of these people who bought your so-called "overpriced properties" a few years ago in Orchard Road area have been laughing all the way to the bank. Since with S$1m property you can buy a couple, it means that the $1m property is cheap! Many people can easily afford! You thought many people are so much poorer than you that they can't afford a couple of such $1m properties? I had also read in the newspaper that a couple earning $15k per month still have to run up credit card debts. I would be damned bloody stupid to believe that just because of this 1 couple, many others are also just like them and having to max out their credit cards even with $15k per month income.

oh well, another one of your subtle ways to convince others its ok to buy such overpriced properties if $8K household income is all that is needed to buy a 1 million property, many of us could have easily bought a couple. but the reality is its not true! the cost of living in singapore is not low. already at $8K/mth ceiling, some couples claim they can barely afford hdb flats!

bottomline, what you are advocating is very risky for such borderline folks to commit to million dollar homes and leave them no room to manoeuvre in these uncertain times. should any lose their job or suffer a paycut, it may result in a firesale and financial ruin for them.

[franzmark]

cool it...illuminaire is a good buy for its sheer location so no worries....

Since when did I ask people to buy "overpriced properties"? How do you define "overpriced"? Overpriced to you doesn't mean it is overpriced to others. Many of these people who bought your so-called "overpriced properties" a few years ago in Orchard Road area have been laughing all the way to the bank. Since with S$1m property you can buy a couple, it means that the $1m property is cheap! Many people can easily afford! You thought many people are so much poorer than you that they can't afford a couple of such $1m properties? I had also read in the newspaper that a couple earning $15k per month still have to run up credit card debts. I would be damned bloody stupid to believe that just because of this 1 couple, many others are also just like them and having to max out their credit cards even with $15k per month income.

[cartman]

Since when did I ask people to buy "overpriced properties"? How do you define "overpriced"? Overpriced to you doesn't mean it is overpriced to others. Many of these people who bought your so-called "overpriced properties" a few years ago in Orchard Road area have been laughing all the way to the bank. Since with S$1m property you can buy a couple, it means that the $1m property is cheap! Many people can easily afford! You thought many people are so much poorer than you that they can't afford a couple of such $1m properties? I had also read in the newspaper that a couple earning $15k per month still have to run up credit card debts. I would be damned bloody stupid to believe that just because of this 1 couple, many others are also just like them and having to max out their credit cards even with $15k per month income.

sure, keep asking those with only 8K/mth household income to commit to more million dollar properties...if not for your wonderful advice, how to have distress sales down the line? fyi...other than you, i am the poorest here

[teddybear]

I was just saying that it is possible to buy $1M properties with $8K/mth. Since when did I ask people to commit to "more million dollar properties" with 8K/mth household income. Please don't put your words into my mouth!

Even the Government is also think so, if not, why set a rule of 8K/mth household income limit for HDB purchase and the new HDB price is not cheap nowaday (> $0.7M for the The Peak @ Toa Payoh !!)

sure, keep asking those with only 8K/mth household income to commit to more million dollar properties...if not for your wonderful advice, how to have distress sales down the line? fyi...other than you, i am the poorest here

[august]

Even the Government is also think so, if not, why set a rule of 8K/mth household income limit for HDB purchase and the new HDB price is not cheap nowaday (> $0.7M for the The Peak @ Toa Payoh !!)

this government thinks for its own pockets only ~

[stalingrad]

I was just saying that it is possible to buy $1M properties with $8K/mth. Since when did I ask people to commit to "more million dollar properties" with 8K/mth household income. Please don't put your words into my mouth!

Even the Government is also think so, if not, why set a rule of 8K/mth household income limit for HDB purchase and the new HDB price is not cheap nowaday (> $0.7M for the The Peak @ Toa Payoh !!)

I think it is silly to ask people who make a mere 8K per month to commit to million-dollar condos. what is 8K nowadays?

to buy a million-dollar condo and be able to sleep at night, one needs to make at least 300K per year, or 25k a month.

all those people who bought the llluminaire chicken coops are asking for trouble, if they don't make at least 15k per month. let them suffer. as I said, who are we to stop them to commit financial suicide.

[stalingrad]

Unlike the US government, Singapopore government will not help those who cannot pay off their housing loans.

I expect many of those stupid morons who bought illuminaire to suffer tremendously next year, when the severity of the condo glut becomes clear.

[franzmark]

i agree that with 8k a month income it is nothing these days. the papers commented that most buyers of illuminaire are either speculators or investors. i really cant envisage a young couple buying their first chicken coop property at illuminaire as a place that size makes one feel claustrophobic and would probably cause many new couples to end up quarrelling more in that kind of environment. buyers may or may not have the holding power, but who knows. i can be certain that when the property market picks up, these buyers would be among the first to cash out...let's wait and see who the suckers are down the road...

I think it is silly to ask people who make a mere 8K per month to commit to million-dollar condos. what is 8K nowadays?

to buy a million-dollar condo and be able to sleep at night, one needs to make at least 300K per year, or 25k a month.

all those people who bought the llluminaire chicken coops are asking for trouble, if they don't make at least 15k per month. let them suffer. as I said, who are we to stop them to commit financial suicide.

[teddybear]

You are right. What is $8k per month income nowsdays? Precisely because of the money printing going on that people need to preserve their buying power. An investment in property is one of the best investment because land cannot grow (other than reclaimation but such land are usually not suitable for residential use and their soil & stone are still being bought from some other land).

To buy a $1m condo need $300k a year? May be that is true for you only?

Why you so sure those who bought llluminaire are committing financial suicide? It reminds me that previously people were also saying that those who bought prime luxury properties in 2003-2005 are idiots because of blah blah blah reasons but these somehow these "idiots" are laughing all the way to the bank! (The real "idiots" will become obvious only a few years now the road).

I think it is silly to ask people who make a mere 8K per month to commit to million-dollar condos. what is 8K nowadays?

to buy a million-dollar condo and be able to sleep at night, one needs to make at least 300K per year, or 25k a month.

all those people who bought the llluminaire chicken coops are asking for trouble, if they don't make at least 15k per month. let them suffer. as I said, who are we to stop them to commit financial suicide.

[stalingrad]

You are right. What is $8k per month income nowsdays? Precisely because of the money printing going on that people need to preserve their buying power. An investment in property is one of the best investment because land cannot grow (other than reclaimation but such land are usually not suitable for residential use and their soil & stone are still being bought from some other land).

To buy a $1m condo need $300k a year? May be that is true for you only?

Why you so sure those who bought llluminaire are committing financial suicide? It reminds me that previously people were also saying that those who bought prime luxury properties in 2003-2005 are idiots because of blah blah blah reasons but these somehow these "idiots" are laughing all the way to the bank! (The real "idiots" will become obvious only a few years now the road).

Let me tell you why I am so sure. Those who bought in 2003-2005 bought at post-SARS prices, which represent very very low sentiments. When sentiments improve, they laughed all the way to the bank and rightfully so. Those that bought Illuminaire bought at peak prices and got a chicken coop units that may lose favors with tenants in the future. they are bound to lose a lot in 2010 when all the condos top and many condos go unoccupied. At that time, who want to pay 2k to 3k to rent a mouse hole in illuminaire. I bet the price of illuminaire will drop below 1000 psf. mark my words for it. I am the first one that predict this outcome.

[teddybear]

Ha Ha Ha! It is interesting to see people make such confident predictions that Illuminaire will fall below $1000 psf! What if it didn't? Then you are spreading rumours right? (So much so about who is spreading rumours! )

Anyway, people can say anything they want as it won't cost them a single cent to do so. Listeners better beware of hidden agenda.

Let me tell you why I am so sure. Those who bought in 2003-2005 bought at post-SARS prices, which represent very very low sentiments. When sentiments improve, they laughed all the way to the bank and rightfully so. Those that bought Illuminaire bought at peak prices and got a chicken coop units that may lose favors with tenants in the future. they are bound to lose a lot in 2010 when all the condos top and many condos go unoccupied. At that time, who want to pay 2k to 3k to rent a mouse hole in illuminaire. I bet the price of illuminaire will drop below 1000 psf. mark my words for it. I am the first one that predict this outcome.

[orange]

will u also be willing to chop off? like one of our bros here

[cartman]

I was just saying that it is possible to buy $1M properties with $8K/mth. Since when did I ask people to commit to "more million dollar properties" with 8K/mth household income. Please don't put your words into my mouth!

Even the Government is also think so, if not, why set a rule of 8K/mth household income limit for HDB purchase and the new HDB price is not cheap nowaday (> $0.7M for the The Peak @ Toa Payoh !!)

one moment claimed 8K/mth more than enough to afford million dollar home and the next claimed 8K/mth is nothing. then try to drag in the govt to justify your flip flop. you can twist and turn all you like, bottom line is you just want others to buy properties, regardless of their financial situation. if you are so confident about the value of properties under today's environment, why are you even here posting and not selling off your wife, house, car etc and pour the money into a few properties?

[teddybear]

Can you even read and understand simple English!
There is really nothing contradictory and no need to twist & turn. $8k/mth is enough to afford a $1m home. $8k/mth is really nothing much in Singapore because many Tom, Dick, and Harry also easily earn $8k or more month. Of course, $8K/mth is NOT enought to buy "Multi" million home.

Come on, making money also must have a life - only idiots will conceive the idea of selling wife & kids to make money! How do you know whether I had already invested in a few properties? This is what people call "dog eye see people low".

On the other hand, those who has not bought any private property will be spilling all sort of bad words and hoping that property price will collapse.

one moment claimed 8K/mth more than enough to afford million dollar home and the next claimed 8K/mth is nothing. then try to drag in the govt to justify your flip flop. you can twist and turn all you like, bottom line is you just want others to buy properties, regardless of their financial situation. if you are so confident about the value of properties under today's environment, why are you even here posting and not selling off your wife, house, car etc and pour the money into a few properties?

[爱屋及乌]

no risk no gain. these 8K earner will be either become few hundred thousand richer or poorer in time to come.

[franzmark]

if illuminaire can drop to below 1k psf then singapore must be in deep crisis. U r probably speaking ur dream rather than a possible reality.

Let me tell you why I am so sure. Those who bought in 2003-2005 bought at post-SARS prices, which represent very very low sentiments. When sentiments improve, they laughed all the way to the bank and rightfully so. Those that bought Illuminaire bought at peak prices and got a chicken coop units that may lose favors with tenants in the future. they are bound to lose a lot in 2010 when all the condos top and many condos go unoccupied. At that time, who want to pay 2k to 3k to rent a mouse hole in illuminaire. I bet the price of illuminaire will drop below 1000 psf. mark my words for it. I am the first one that predict this outcome.

[teddybear]

I know that there are many out there that are still hoping and hoping to buy private property CHEAP CHEAP for flipping for enormous gains... Even then, many have the integrity not to made comments against their conscience and against what they truly believes. As such, we have to understand that these are their DREAMS. I even saw some forumers dreaming to buy Orchard area private property at $400 psf.

if illuminaire can drop to below 1k psf then singapore must be in deep crisis. U r probably speaking ur dream rather than a possible reality.

[franzmark]

it is ok to dream, but these people just have to remember to wake up...

I know that there are many out there that are still hoping and hoping to buy private property CHEAP CHEAP for flipping for enormous gains... Even then, many have the integrity not to made comments against their conscience and against what they truly believes. As such, we have to understand that these are their DREAMS. I even saw some forumers dreaming to buy Orchard area private property at $400 psf.

[stalingrad]

Enough is enough with this bullshit from the housing bulls. Do you morons know

(1) many units of the alexis have already been returned by the speculators to the developer, because they cannot flip?

(2) Do you know that expats are leaving singapore in droves, hence reducing demand for all kinds of condos, especially the chicken coop types

(3) do you know that there will be 38,000 plus condos topped in the next one to two years? And who are going to keep buying them to prop up the prices.

Yes, some of us are sour grapes, but most of us are not. We are just making a honest assessment, and doing you speculators a favor by warning you not to sell you wife and kids to satisfy your gambling need.

[proud owner]

Enough is enough with this bullshit from the housing bulls. Do you morons know

(1) many units of the alexis have already been returned by the speculators to the developer, because they cannot flip?

(2) Do you know that expats are leaving singapore in droves, hence reducing demand for all kinds of condos, especially the chicken coop types

(3) do you know that there will be 38,000 plus condos topped in the next one to two years? And who are going to keep buying them to prop up the prices.

Yes, some of us are sour grapes, but most of us are not. We are just making a honest assessment, and doing you speculators a favor by warning you not to sell you wife and kids to satisfy your gambling need.

i agree all 3 points ...

can i add 1 more ...

those remaining expats ...many are getting pay cuts ..
there are many expat tenants writing in to 'beg' for rental reduction.. and if unsuccessful ..they will down grade to smaller units ..
most expats almost always have a 'spare room' for visiting relatives and friends .. many are moving to smaller units ...

any agents here specialising in rental ? pls comment

my personal friend is an agent and this is what is happening now ...

there may not be a collapse in the prop mkt but a upswing is not likely ..more like a prolong flat to down move ... and over that time ..prices will have to adjust ... hence i agree with a few that 1500 psf for pigeon hold units is simply not sustainable ...

[august]

saw some news about rental insurance getting popular ~

[franzmark]

(1) Re Alexis, many is how many and with the size of the development, is alexis representative of entire mkt?

(2) Expats come and go. If many go, many will also come in to take the places of those who go, right?

(3) Most of those top'ing in the next 2 years have already been sold by developers during launch and soft launch.

Let me add one point, not everyone who buys a condo is thinking of flipping or making a profit. I for one have bought a condo to stay there with my wife to enjoy the fruits of our labour while keeping my HDB flat. In fact, I am looking to buy another condo so that i can rent out one of the condos and the HDB flat to cover for the instalment for the condo i am staying, effectively making the condo i am staying in almost free. My point is this, people buy condos for a number of reasons and there are always many ways to look at it. many condo residents are against the idea of enbloc even though they become rich instantly simply becoz life is too short to think about money all the time...

Enough is enough with this bullshit from the housing bulls. Do you morons know

(1) many units of the alexis have already been returned by the speculators to the developer, because they cannot flip?

(2) Do you know that expats are leaving singapore in droves, hence reducing demand for all kinds of condos, especially the chicken coop types

(3) do you know that there will be 38,000 plus condos topped in the next one to two years? And who are going to keep buying them to prop up the prices.

Yes, some of us are sour grapes, but most of us are not. We are just making a honest assessment, and doing you speculators a favor by warning you not to sell you wife and kids to satisfy your gambling need.

[stalingrad]

(1) Re Alexis, many is how many and with the size of the development, is alexis representative of entire mkt?

(2) Expats come and go. If many go, many will also come in to take the places of those who go, right?

(3) Most of those top'ing in the next 2 years have already been sold by developers during launch and soft launch.

Let me add one point, not everyone who buys a condo is thinking of flipping or making a profit. I for one have bought a condo to stay there with my wife to enjoy the fruits of our labour while keeping my HDB flat. In fact, I am looking to buy another condo so that i can rent out one of the condos and the HDB flat to cover for the instalment for the condo i am staying, effectively making the condo i am staying in almost free. My point is this, people buy condos for a number of reasons and there are always many ways to look at it. many condo residents are against the idea of enbloc even though they become rich instantly simply becoz life is too short to think about money all the time...

(1) I mentioned the alexis specifically because it is a condo that sold out quickly specifically because of the chicken coop sizes of the units, just like illuminaire. You draw the conclusion whether the fact that many units of the alexi have been returned suggests an upside or downside potential of the illuminaire.

(2) It used to be that expats come and go. Now, they just go and not come. why, because there are no longer any jobs for them. why, the economy, stupid. yes, there are some jobs from the IRs, but these are mostly low paying jobs.

(3) yes, many of the condos that I mentioned have been sold. But the buyers are mostly flippers like yourself, and the units will be put back on the market when the speculators can no longer service the loans. thus, the market has only one way to go, down. Besides, there are many many condos waiting to be launched, waiting for the right moment. Again let me ask you, is it a good or bad sign?

As for you holding your illuminaire unit for the long term, fine. good for you. but if you had waited a while, you could have paid at least 30% less than you did. So, are you a moron or not?

[proud owner]

(1) Re Alexis, many is how many and with the size of the development, is alexis representative of entire mkt?

(2) Expats come and go. If many go, many will also come in to take the places of those who go, right?

(3) Most of those top'ing in the next 2 years have already been sold by developers during launch and soft launch.

Let me add one point, not everyone who buys a condo is thinking of flipping or making a profit. I for one have bought a condo to stay there with my wife to enjoy the fruits of our labour while keeping my HDB flat. In fact, I am looking to buy another condo so that i can rent out one of the condos and the HDB flat to cover for the instalment for the condo i am staying, effectively making the condo i am staying in almost free. My point is this, people buy condos for a number of reasons and there are always many ways to look at it. many condo residents are against the idea of enbloc even though they become rich instantly simply becoz life is too short to think about money all the time...

ideally,to live in one and rent out another to help subsidise the first ..thats on most of our minds ...

but have you wonder ..are there going to be sufficient or sustainable demand for rental ?

now outflow of expats is greater than inflow ..

over the past 2 yrs ..the enblocs have created a temporary demand for rental , as owners moved out and rent, while waiting for the new ones to be ready for occupation ..

when they are all TOP-ed .. wouldnt there be a huge surplus of units seeking rental ?

right now, easily there are 100 units available at Horizon Tower for rent .. at 4.5k ( u can find these adverts in prop guru) which will compete with neighbouring projects who is asking 6-8k ... in current conditions, many will choose to take 4.5k horizon than 7.5k paterson ..right ?

so how to subsidise your condo ?

so wouldnt market eventual adjust itself and selling price has to come off ? or rental comes off ?