also dont understand the logic, why own stay can buy at high price ?Originally Posted by Honesty
No chance
Maybe
Highly likely
Confirm + Chop !!!
also dont understand the logic, why own stay can buy at high price ?Originally Posted by Honesty
exactly. apparently agents dont think it hurts you to buy high and pay unnecessary high mortgage. Its just their spin to make sure at least someones buying.Originally Posted by Douk
would you rather buy and live in the same property for 500k or 700k? It's really that simple.
now what the market does is a different thing all together but this is one lame argument.
As a home owner and investor I would want to enter the market for both at the same time.
Would-be buyers hoping for another crash in the market are likely to be disappointed unless a major shock takes place, such as a delayed economic recovery, a stock market collapse or H1N1 virus turning more deadly, analysts say.Originally Posted by Douk
i believe what he meant was if for own stay, can buy if find ideal home since u can end up waiting indefinitely for substantial drop if the property trend follows plateau as predicted by analysts. but for investment, a wait and see approach may be more prudent in view of the uncertainty. if prices drop then can make a move, if prices go up then wait for next cycle lo. no rush if you already got home.
I just bought an own stay unit a few months back.
My opinion is :
Own stay : The main factor here is affordability and how much u like the area or location. Trust me, finding a place you really like and want to stay rooted for the next decade is no simple feat. U will have to draw out a list of things u want. Units per floor, view, location, private life or not, total number of units in the condo, facilities, and the list goes on and on. So if you find one that really fit the bill. You should try to get it! Esp if the Feng Shui Master also says that is a perfect house for you!
Why people say price may not be very relevant, it means as long as you can comfortably afford it. Paying an additional 50K or so for a unit that suit you perfectly is worth more than the 50K or so (depending on how rich you are la!).
For investment : The simple rules. Pricing. Expectation of the market in the next 6-12 months. Yield. Location, Master plan, etc.
Thus you may end up being able to buy a 1.5 million property for investment, but cannot afford the same 1.5 million property for own stay. Investment property, if you choose correctly, will feed itself. The rental will pay for everything, instalments, maint, property tax, agents comm, etc. And still able to give u a few dollars to bring home !
Thus you may end up being able to buy a 1.5 million property for investment, but cannot afford the same 1.5 million property for own stay.
1.5 million property is for the 'Ang Mo' to stay, so that we can 'chop their carrot head'
Let them pay for our enjoyment. chop! chop! chop! chop ang mo ang mo kow.
ok clarify a bit, i not agent.. wat i meant is for own stay u shld have faster bought, ideally a few mths ago hehe.. i hv said so since start of yr bcos no one can so zhun & time the price bottom accurately. obviously u go buy now during a mini "boom" u will be helping agents and sellers to chase the price up and that is a no no ~Originally Posted by Honesty
u see hor for own stay u may not get the unit u want, so u see a unit u like and want & as long as price is within affordability for u i say buy liao.. between paying the diff of 50 to 100psf and not getting ur choice unit to stay u hv to make a decision lor
for investment, investors care less whether low floor high floor afternoon sun etc.. so choice of units matters less compared to mkt has bottomed or not
not asking anyone to buy at high price lahOriginally Posted by Douk
what is your 'high price'?
is it the bubble peak high of 07-08 or 04-05? or is it high to based on one's affordability?
i reckon the ppl entering the mkt this past 1 to 2 mths contributing to the mini pty rally are the ones who can afford the peak price of 07-08. But no one wants to buy high right? so they stayed out. Now that mkt has plunged from the peak, prices hv become more affordable to them, so they went in.
those who totally cannot afford the peak price of 07-08, and still find the current price (dropped from 07-08 peak) too high, my advice is stay out...
Right, I see your point. Few months ago (6 months) is a good buy for home stay. For now I would not buy even if I see something I like, as there will be plenty of new or old (but good) units coming along.Originally Posted by august
By year end prices will fall again...unless Real economy really improved.
Real property move up only when Real economy move up.
yes i also feel the mkt is trending down, so if not in any real hurry or picky over choice units it is better to waitOriginally Posted by Honesty
So you rather stay at the Carabelle, besides the AYE?, where there are no tourists to hit on your wife?Originally Posted by stalingrad
If you have been to that part of town, there are not as much wild tourists as your wife fears. Tenants for RG and those in the vicinity do not rely on tourists. Tourist arrivals have no bearing on lease take-ups.. Tourists stay at hotels for short stay.
Tenants are long stay expats, which depends on economic growth.
If RG will hit 900 psf as what you expects, what will the Carabelle be in end 2010 for comparison in your "expert" opinion?
Wa.. it's even worse.. If tourists, at least the wife gets hit on once a while.. if it's long-stay tenant, the wife gets hit every day while you are at work..Originally Posted by panamera
actually, even for own stay, you wouldnt want your property to depreciate 50% few years down the road and reach back the peak price at what you have paid for. unless for those who really in need of a place urgently, why need to buy one for own stay now. this is not the time to buy at all.
Originally Posted by DKSG
i think you are quite right.
but, when even a bank dare not match the asking price, i guess, it is very clear, price is too high.
when the property price turn bullish without fundament support like economy growth, inflow of foreign talent (rental), improve job markets, etc. price is too high.
Originally Posted by august
if a bank doesnt match UP to a sellign price for an old project, how can they match the even higher price of new launch ??Originally Posted by Douk
i suspect new launches may have some kind of 'guarantee' from developers ..or some kind of credit tied to the developers ..as oppose to individuals for old projects ..
just doesnt make sense if bank cant match say 1300 psf for Valley park but can grant the same or higher for rivergate ?
yah, i also think there must be some kind of benefit or risk sharing the developer tie up with banks.Originally Posted by proud owner
remember not too long ago .. developers and valuer had a conversation ??Originally Posted by Douk
and valuers put the blame on banks being conservatives ...?
after that all of a sudden new launches banks match ALL their psf ...
I agree that no one will want the price of their property to fall by 50%. But, like you have just mentioned, unless urgently needed a place. Since last year Nov08 onwards, a lot of people put off purchases of property till this May-09. Although it is just only half a year, a lot of people are caught off guard by the sudden increase in price. If they are urgently in need a place, they most likely panic now which contributed the increase as well.Originally Posted by Douk
maybe got 2 kinds of own-stay..Originally Posted by Douk
1. own stay with a view to asset appreciation.. half invest half own stay kind.. most ppl fall into this category
2. really own stay... those cash rich ppl who paid over 800k for HDB kind ~ lol
IMO, buying 99LH mass market condo for own stay is plain risky especially if you have to borrow 80%. From 1996 until now, only those who bought in 1998 and those bought in 2003/2004 make $$. The return is much worse compared to HDB. You are paying a high price for own stay in this case.Originally Posted by august
yes as u already said liao, mass market condo 99LHOriginally Posted by jitkiat
if looking for return as opposed to own stay, then location is key..
e.g. the sail is 99LH, 1111 units and the quality is mass market, but is high investment grade
i think most of the time investment and own stay r mutually exclusive, v difficult to be able to hv your cake and eat it too
this is wat the seasoned pty investors tell me wor...
to me...of course i do not represents the general public.
buying for investment vs buying for own stay... there is no difference.... except that if you are buying for your own stay, you need to be sure you are comfortable in that area...
Otherwise, ownstay or investments, i am sure you do not want your property to depreciate... in fact 9 out of 10, if the price is right, will sell the "ownstay" place anyway!
also, for ownstay, all the more the pricing is important... because, one day, if the bank decides to make a margin call, you cannot liquidate and pay off the loan...
so i really don't know why people always differentiate between investments and ownstay...
if u hv family, own stay means u need a 3 or 4 bedderOriginally Posted by pweesng
investment u heck care liao, studio or 2 bedder can already.. location is important bcos some area studio dun make sense or bigger units easier to rent out, whereas for other areas bigger units dun make investment sense, or harder to rent or dispose.. just my puny 2 cents
I also beg to differ with this. For own stay, i may need a 3 bedder or more.. or i may just need a 2 bedder... more and more young families chose to be childless or only one kid. Essentially there isn't a need for a big space.Originally Posted by august
For investments, i also won't restrict myself to 2 bed rooms unless we factor in affordability. if i can afford it, i'll definitely get a bigger unit. bear in mind, bigger units are easier to rent out these days. Market seems to be flooded with 2 bedrooms out for rental.
my 2 cents worth too.
It depends on your lifestyle. If you want to stay near cultural/entertainment events then stay at City Hall/Raffles Place/Dhoby Ghaut area is good. IF you want a quiet/serene lifestyle (like those in WFW threads), then place like Bedok Reservoir or Upper Bukit Timah is good. Buying something that has big investment potential + suit your lifestyle sometimes are conflicting requirements.Originally Posted by pweesng
Cultural
Shopping
Peace, quiet, good air
Seaview
Convenience to work
Near good school for kid
The list goes on
Last edited by jitkiat; 09-07-09 at 09:04.
there are many good location with good investment value that meet these so called " conflicting requirement" such as meyer road, shelford, nassim, Ardmore, etc. dont have to go to bedok or Upper BT... and definitely no conflicting requirements.
Originally Posted by jitkiat
Yah, but many people cannot afford it. Most important requirement is affordability.Originally Posted by Douk
i u buy in march its under 1K.. roberston 100, watermark.. now ah... wait long long liaoOriginally Posted by firestarter
if you work on the basis of yield, yes.. the price shoudl be around 1k psf... however, given that quite a few buyers / owners of RG bought it above that price, it may be unlikely that they will sell it at below that given that it is not that difficult to get loans these days.
but if it gets to that stage, i'll be more than happy to have a look at that project. Right now it is also out of my reach, economically.
i dont believe there are alot of RG owners who bought to stay ..Originally Posted by pweesng
the great pct of owners are trying to rent them out .. what kind of yield are we talking about ?
its miserable .. but some will argue that its still higher than leaving the money in the bank ... if you belong to this group then go buy and rent out ..
if you want higher return .. just forget RG ... for that matter .. forget most projects launched lately
I think the right question to ask is besides property in SG, where else can you get higher return with the same risk. I am in favor of BRIC stocks but it has higher volatility.Originally Posted by proud owner