I will buy rivergate and the sail

[DW]

Oh really...? I must sell my DBS , OUB and OCBC share liao... Thier exposure is damn high.

This is from my personal experience and observation. Banks may ask you to top up but I believe this is done on a best efforts basis and to the maximum extent the owner can do so (i.e. by exercising any set off rights the bank may have on their accounts and likewise).

Assuming you are Bank A (where A is a local bank), and you have a mortgage loan customer. This borrower is a good customer and has been paying his mortgage payments on time. LTV now falls to say 75%. You ask the customer to top up 5%. Customer says he has money to make the monthly mortgage paymetns but no money to top up the 5%. You discuss this a number of times with this customer, after 4 weeks, he is still not able to top up. Your next course of action available is then to exercise your right to enforce security, apply to the court for foreclosure on mortgage asset, extinguish the equity of redemption held by the owner, and power of sale (pursuant to the terms of the mortgage loan).

I do not think people are arguing if the banks will ask you to top up or not, the real question is if banks will really enforce security, file for foreclosure on the mortgage, apply to the courts to extinguish the equity right of redemption, and proceed to enforce their right to power of sale. The legal process typically will take quite a while, say 3-4 weeks. From the time the bank determines LTV is 75%, the Borrower refusal to top up (after multiple consultation), application to court for power of sale, and eventually reception of actual proceed of the sale (if they get to sell it off successfully), it will be quite a while. At that time, LTV may even be at about 65% or 60%. Banks then take a 15-20% write off.

Now, if you have a customer whom have originally been paying their mortgage payments on time, why would a bank want to go through this enforcement, in the process take up reputational risk, and credit write off. Once you enforce security and foreclose on the asset, you are effectively giving up on a paying customer whom have been satisfying his loan obligations but simply not able to top up the shortfall in LTV ??

If you are the credit committee of the bank, are you able to stand up to the argument of enforcing the security notwithstanding your customer has been making good on his mortgage payments; and considering the bank faces a highly likely prospect of loan write off (not even provisioning) if they take such an enforcemnet action given the time lag in process and prices in a falling market.

I am not sure how many of the forummers here have really been through a work-out situation with the liquidation counsels of a bank or is it just plain thoughts thinking aloud that banks will act or behave in a certain fashion.

Personally, I firmly believe that the enforcement route is never the bank's preferred route or recovery. In fact, in most cases, recovery rates are usually lowest by way of enforcement. Banks typically do not adopt the enforcement action unless it is the absolutely last resort. If you have a paying customer, banks are usually quite happy.

I invite everyone not to take my word for it. Talk to your independent insolvency counsel and make your own judgement and views on the same.

[gfoo]

The crux of these interesting argumentative threads is really - is rivergate fairly priced now and hence mitigate any bank action down the road (ie significant fall below today's price).

Look at the potential of rivergate's vicinity and then do price comparisons. Do not take into account the idiots that bought Alexis at $1200 and Arte at $900-$1000.

There is almost ZERO developmental potential for rivergate in a 1km radius, much less a 500m radius - no MRT, no commercial/entertainment hub, no shopping mall, just lotsa lotsa more condos. and maybe zouk. look at the billions the govt is pumping into the marina bay, and south/southeastern area. and then the hundreds of millions into the one-north area. then look at rivergate. there are just waaay too many developments in that area that are poised to bring prices down. S@C, st thomas stretch, and the new devonshire development are waay closer to orchard, and if devonshire is priced at $1400 avg, RG is truly in trouble.

I used to rent and my rental decision was simple - location & prestige. I wanted to be able to tell my colleagues and friends: lim peh stay at XXXX. If RG and MBR both carry the same rental psf, i would go for MBR. RG is not in the exclusive enclaves of orchard, nor the high-end commercial enclaves. Agents say its in the epicenter of Raffles Place and Orchard. I say its in the middle of nowhere.

the launch price of RG avg out at $1000 in 2006. then some champion bidded it up to $1700, and it started a localised bubble. it's now about $1350-$1400. That's still 40% from launch price. and 2006 was 15% higher than 2005. so you're looking at 55% premium. at $1350, RG is overpriced.

At the Sail, in 2004 first launch was $900psf. 2nd launch in 2005 was $1100.
Even if i bought close to the 2nd launch price, i'm shitting in my pants for bank action down the road. but because i'm buying at just about a 15% premium, my downside is somewhat mitigated. Not to mention i have no PES area to speak of, which since Feb09 banks are consciously trying to price out of valuations.

At one-north, the lee dynasty is trying to bank hard on multimedia, cinematic, and biotech industries. it really doesn't matter if that works out. what matters is the amount of infrastructure funds the government is pumping in. valuations in ONR peaked to $1200. it's now $800. it was launched at $750. I'm looking at one-north to get a studio for investment.

so it boils down to 'location, location, location'. heck even one amber is a better project price -performance wise. got MRT, got 2 shopping malls & 1 derelict mall, great view, and arguably can cycle to gardens by the bay

Does RG neighbourhood/vicinity have the potential to raise its prices beyond current levels? Your answer to this answers RG's valuation question.

[bargain hunter]

why start this thread to say you will buy rivergate when you see nothing good about it?

The crux of these interesting argumentative threads is really - is rivergate fairly priced now and hence mitigate any bank action down the road (ie significant fall below today's price).

Look at the potential of rivergate's vicinity and then do price comparisons. Do not take into account the idiots that bought Alexis at $1200 and Arte at $900-$1000.

There is almost ZERO developmental potential for rivergate in a 1km radius, much less a 500m radius - no MRT, no commercial/entertainment hub, no shopping mall, just lotsa lotsa more condos. and maybe zouk. look at the billions the govt is pumping into the marina bay, and south/southeastern area. and then the hundreds of millions into the one-north area. then look at rivergate. there are just waaay too many developments in that area that are poised to bring prices down. S@C, st thomas stretch, and the new devonshire development are waay closer to orchard, and if devonshire is priced at $1400 avg, RG is truly in trouble.

I used to rent and my rental decision was simple - location & prestige. I wanted to be able to tell my colleagues and friends: lim peh stay at XXXX. If RG and MBR both carry the same rental psf, i would go for MBR. RG is not in the exclusive enclaves of orchard, nor the high-end commercial enclaves. Agents say its in the epicenter of Raffles Place and Orchard. I say its in the middle of nowhere.

the launch price of RG avg out at $1000 in 2006. then some champion bidded it up to $1700, and it started a localised bubble. it's now about $1350-$1400. That's still 40% from launch price. and 2006 was 15% higher than 2005. so you're looking at 55% premium. at $1350, RG is overpriced.

At the Sail, in 2004 first launch was $900psf. 2nd launch in 2005 was $1100.
Even if i bought close to the 2nd launch price, i'm shitting in my pants for bank action down the road. but because i'm buying at just about a 15% premium, my downside is somewhat mitigated. Not to mention i have no PES area to speak of, which since Feb09 banks are consciously trying to price out of valuations.

At one-north, the lee dynasty is trying to bank hard on multimedia, cinematic, and biotech industries. it really doesn't matter if that works out. what matters is the amount of infrastructure funds the government is pumping in. valuations in ONR peaked to $1200. it's now $800. it was launched at $750. I'm looking at one-north to get a studio for investment.

so it boils down to 'location, location, location'. heck even one amber is a better project price -performance wise. got MRT, got 2 shopping malls & 1 derelict mall, great view, and arguably can cycle to gardens by the bay

Does RG neighbourhood/vicinity have the potential to raise its prices beyond current levels? Your answer to this answers RG's valuation question.

[ahlahdin]

I disagree with gfoo that Rivergate is in the middle of nowhere! Rivergate is in the middle of KTV girl land! .

That Malaysian developer who bought Welkin Mansion at that ridiculous price will be holding it for a long time.

For investment I would not touch River Valley. But I would buy to stay, note this is a biased comment as I live here and love it.

There are so many other choices for good investment deals at similar or lower prices than River Valley. One North, Dhoby Ghaut, Novena MRT area, Newton MRT area, Holland MRT area, Adam/Botanic MRT area, I could go on and on.

Like gfoo, I would look at One North and Marina Bay for investment right now.

Unlike gfoo though, I would stay clear of One Amber and vicinity. That part of east coast has lost its original charm and has become a high-rise concrete jungle with congested 2 lane roads and overpopulation. No MRT. You will be competing with hundreds of other units for tenants.

[gfoo]

why start this thread to say you will buy rivergate when you see nothing good about it?

read historical in ex RG thread. i will buy at launch mah. at that price, rivergate becomes good.

[gfoo]

put it this way lah.

heartland condos dropped only 15% from peak but went up 50%. slow decline coz tons of hdb upgraders are propping up demand/prices. why? i dunno - maybe they are not used to having so much idle cash on hand from the sale of their HDB.

prime condos wet up 60% but down almost 50%. so even if you want to buy RG now, go and buy lor - you still lose less % wise compared to heartland condos. but you will still lose

so will i

and so will many others that buy today.

but i buy to stay, and after living these few weeks with in-laws, i would gladly have paid more to move in earlier - you guys have no idea the pain i have to endure

[gfoo]

I disagree with gfoo that Rivergate is in the middle of nowhere! Rivergate is in the middle of KTV girl land! .

and across the longkang at Central Mall you have Singapore's one and only korean ktv. but v v v v expensive siah, and i'm not talking about how much a bottle of chivas costs

[jc]

Unlike gfoo though, I would stay clear of One Amber and vicinity. That part of east coast has lost its original charm and has become a high-rise concrete jungle with congested 2 lane roads and overpopulation. No MRT. You will be competing with hundreds of other units for tenants.

How do u define concrete jungle? Isn't Orchard, District 1, certain part of River Valley likewise?

Talk abt overpopulation... The Sail > One Amber+ Esta.
Rivergate+ Watermark+ 8 Rodyk+ Robertson 100 ++++ etc.....


Travelling from Amber area to Suntec is a 10 mins bus ride n to Raffles Place around 15-18 mins bus ride. Driving from Amber to The Sail takes me 11 min. Having no MRT is irrelevant as public transport is available. I don't think tenant working in the west would be renting a place at Amber area.

MRT prob need a 10yr wait for Eastern Regional Line. Or maybe Circle line will be completing sooner nearest Dakota Station. But there is the convenience of a 10 min walk to Parkway Parade, East Coast Park, future Shopping Mall at Katong Mall, nice F&B along East Coast...

Of course the added bonus of 11 min drive away from the IR.

In fact It takes longer to drive from Novena area to Raffles Place than from Amber to Raffles Place, but Property px at the East is much more affordable than Novena area.

[ahlahdin]

Concrete jungle is fine where it is supposed to be, ie- central/city area. It is not fine for the East Coast.I dunno if you can understand that.

Novena to Raffles Place is much nearer if you compare with same conditions: no traffic and take small roads (not expressways).

During rush hour, ECP, Nicoll H'way, Mountbatten, etc are just as bad as, if not worse than the roads surrounding Novena.

But Novena has the MRT and Amber doesn't. Expats are only here to work a couple of years. I don't think they give much thought to SARS or hospital feng shui. If that bothers you, there are still plenty of other prime and near prime areas with MRT to choose from, Newton, Balmoral, Holland, Adam, Dover, etc. all of which I'd sooner invest in than East Coast.

You are lying to yourself if you think Amber area is alright being a concrete jungle despite not being particularly close to anywhere of importance. Well, if the highlights of your life involve hanging out at Parkway and strolling to overpopulated, polluted East Coast Park to look at murky waters then by all means buy Amber.

In any case, you failed to note that my post addressed investment property. Why do you think I specifically noted MRT areas in prime and near prime districts?

When investing, I prefer to anticipate the worst case scenario in that my tenants do not drive, taxis are difficult to hail or book during rush hours and rainy days, and gridlocked traffic.

Maybe your investment strategies are different from mine but I would not invest in somewhere like Rivergate or Amber Road for the reasons outlined above.

Yes, in my own property investing experiences, expats appreciate MRT a lot more than driving their own vehicle in S'pore probably due to lousy S'porean drivers amidst atrocious traffic conditions and limited parking lots at offices and malls. So maybe that has influenced my opinions a bit. I can live in an area without MRT but I wouldn't wish that upon my expat tenants.

How do u define concrete jungle? Isn't Orchard, District 1, certain part of River Valley likewise?

Talk abt overpopulation... The Sail > One Amber+ Esta.
Rivergate+ Watermark+ 8 Rodyk+ Robertson 100 ++++ etc.....


Travelling from Amber area to Suntec is a 10 mins bus ride n to Raffles Place around 15-18 mins bus ride. Driving from Amber to The Sail takes me 11 min. Having no MRT is irrelevant as public transport is available. I don't think tenant working in the west would be renting a place at Amber area.

MRT prob need a 10yr wait for Eastern Regional Line. Or maybe Circle line will be completing sooner nearest Dakota Station. But there is the convenience of a 10 min walk to Parkway Parade, East Coast Park, future Shopping Mall at Katong Mall, nice F&B along East Coast...

Of course the added bonus of 11 min drive away from the IR.

In fact It takes longer to drive from Novena area to Raffles Place than from Amber to Raffles Place, but Property px at the East is much more affordable than Novena area.

[ahlahdin]

I used to drive around lots.

ECP and CTE are jammed up terribly 6 - 8 hours a day.

Your 11 mins drive from Amber to IR is only achievable from 10 or 11 pm onwards. Otherwise, a jammed up ECP will mean that the alternative is the equally congested Mountbatten road and Nicoll Highway. After which you sit through nightmarish gridlock from Suntec-Esplanade area all the way through Fullerton to turn into ORQ.

In contrast, from Novena Sq you have the option of one straight no-frills no hassle underground train down to Raffles Place, 10-15 mins tops; or if you drive, one long straight road down Newton Rd, Scotts Rd, Paterson Rd, Kim Seng Rd, turn left at Havelock, straight down to ORQ and IR. Speeds are higher here even during rush hour due to wider roads and faster, higher torque cars that more folks here drive. I have consistently accomplished 15 minute drives from Novena Sq to ORQ in rush hour traffic using the above roads.

From Parkway to ORQ in rush hour takes me half an hour.

I used to frequent Novena Sq and PP because of my job. And I can imagine traffic nowadays being worse what with the increase in population of all the cheap underpowered cars on the road.

So I can't imagine an expat wanting to sit through all that, either in a taxi or his own vehicle!

To us S'poreans, taking MRT is low class, because we view driving car as a status symbol. Have you considered how expats view driving in Singapore? Based on my understanding, I am willing to bet that a large majority prefer the speedy fuss free, if squeezier MRT.

[i12buyhouse]

BH:

I challenge u that there is no such “topup” clauses in the mortgage contract . Pls read between the line ”The bank USUALLY don,t….”.

If what u said is true ,get the bank to remove such clauses from the contract.

Cartman, Mezz72SG,

Do any of you own private properties at all?

Get the low-down on home loan top-ups

Banks don’t usually ask for fresh valuations despite price slide
WITH the slide in property prices and a looming long economic downturn, some borrowers may be forgiven if they harbour thoughts of getting calls from their banks to top up their home loans.
But banks told BT that as long as borrowers are current in their monthly loan instalments, they will not ask for fresh valuations which could then lead to a top-up.
A DBS Bank spokeswoman says a key consideration when granting loans is the repayment ability of the customer.
‘As such, when the customers are promptly servicing their monthly repayments, the bank will not usually require the customer to top-up the housing loan.’
Even those who took up loans on the deferred payment scheme (DPS) need not worry about the fall in the value of their homes, she says.
‘Customers who took up loans on the deferred payment scheme would have had the approval granted based on the valuations at the point of the submission of their loan applications. And likewise, the approval will take into account the repayment ability of the customer.
‘By the same token, when the loan is disbursed, as long as the customer can meet the monthly repayment amounts, the bank will not usually take any other course of action against the customer, even if valuations of these properties are now lower than that at the time of purchase.’
In reply of BT queries, a Monetary Authority of Singapore spokeswoman says non-performing housing loans are currently low.
‘While we expect these to rise, the increase will not be significant,’ she says.
‘Banks in Singapore do not generally repossess a property once a loan is in default. Repossession is usually a final step after exhausting other avenues with the borrower, such as restructuring the loan,’ she adds.
The MAS, however, does not intervene in such commercial decisions by the banks, she adds.
A United Overseas Bank spokeswoman says it is currently not the bank’s practice to require a fresh valuation for DPS properties.
DPS borrowers typically begin paying their instalments some two years after they bought their homes.
Some observers are expecting a rash of defaults on the part of DPS buyers when the properties are completed and loan drawdowns begin.
Vibha Coburn, Citibank’s head of secured finance solutions, says it is not the bank’s usual practice to ask for top-ups in the case of existing borrowers who are servicing their loans on an ongoing basis.
‘While we may conduct valuations on properties held within our loans portfolio, these would form part of our internal portfolio management and due diligence processes,’ she says.
The UOB spokeswoman says the bank periodically reviews its mortgage portfolio, including the update of property values.
Source : Business Times - 8 Dec 2008

[jc]

Well bro, i respect your opinion though i don't necessary agree on all of them. So where do u think is a good place to place one's chip now for an investment pty? The Sail? One North? Any other places? N if u don't mind sharing the rationale for it? Tks

[jc]

I used to drive around lots.

ECP and CTE are jammed up terribly 6 - 8 hours a day.

Your 11 mins drive from Amber to IR is only achievable from 10 or 11 pm onwards. Otherwise, a jammed up ECP will mean that the alternative is the equally congested Mountbatten road and Nicoll Highway. After which you sit through nightmarish gridlock from Suntec-Esplanade area all the way through Fullerton to turn into ORQ.

In contrast, from Novena Sq you have the option of one straight no-frills no hassle underground train down to Raffles Place, 10-15 mins tops; or if you drive, one long straight road down Newton Rd, Scotts Rd, Paterson Rd, Kim Seng Rd, turn left at Havelock, straight down to ORQ and IR. Speeds are higher here even during rush hour due to wider roads and faster, higher torque cars that more folks here drive. I have consistently accomplished 15 minute drives from Novena Sq to ORQ in rush hour traffic using the above roads.

From Parkway to ORQ in rush hour takes me half an hour.

I used to frequent Novena Sq and PP because of my job. And I can imagine traffic nowadays being worse what with the increase in population of all the cheap underpowered cars on the road.

So I can't imagine an expat wanting to sit through all that, either in a taxi or his own vehicle!

To us S'poreans, taking MRT is low class, because we view driving car as a status symbol. Have you considered how expats view driving in Singapore? Based on my understanding, I am willing to bet that a large majority prefer the speedy fuss free, if squeezier MRT.

Well bro, i respect your opinion though i don't necessary agree on all of them. So where do u think is a good place to place one's chip now for an investment pty? The Sail? One North? Any other places? N if u don't mind sharing the rationale for it? Tks

[i12buyhouse]

Buying Price 1500sf @ $1500psf $2,250,000.00
Loan Amount @ 80% $1,800,000.00
Current Price @ $1200psf $1,800,000.00
Assume Price move to $1000psf in 3 months time $1,500,000.00


Look at the example above , assuming that market continue to move south. The unit will be in negative asset. The bank exposure is > $300K and risk to drop futher is more. Bank would need more provision of bad debt if more and more loan given in this situation. It will hit thier P&L finally.

Finally, these will become toxic asset in bank book... In order to protect bank interest, they might need to force customer top up before the valuation hit $1350psf.

It is not very common currently because most of this units are on DPS scheme. When come to TOP, then the owner getting loan from bank.

This is from my personal experience and observation. Banks may ask you to top up but I believe this is done on a best efforts basis and to the maximum extent the owner can do so (i.e. by exercising any set off rights the bank may have on their accounts and likewise).

[august]

Well bro, i respect your opinion though i don't necessary agree on all of them. So where do u think is a good place to place one's chip now for an investment pty? The Sail? One North? Any other places? N if u don't mind sharing the rationale for it? Tks

the sail not a gd investment imo...
many r shunning sentosa now, but imo it may be a gem.. it was hot for a reason, it will be hot again

sorrie qfoo

[jc]

the sail not a gd investment imo...
many r shunning sentosa now, but imo it may be a gem.. it was hot for a reason, it will be hot again

sorrie qfoo

I also have some reservations on the Sail or Marina Bay area. Do u think u can share your reasons/ insights on the Sail n Sentosa. Tks

[gfoo]

I also have some reservations on the Sail or Marina Bay area. Do u think u can share your reasons/ insights on the Sail n Sentosa. Tks

Yes, do share your reservations. For me, and i stress that as this is for own stay, it fit my budget, need and profile.

I was considering the Berth at $1400psf, but honestly, that's out of my affordability range. $1m for a property was my budget +- 5%, so that i can still retain a significant cash buffer for extingencies.

Also, as i am extremely pantang (as you all prob are aware heeeee), i won't feel comfortable in a place that gives me the creeps.

[KT_Lim]

anything free is good!
I think it all boils down to vested interest. I am more inclined to think that Rg has better investment value compared to Sail. in fact, I think sail is overpriced and we are looking at a 15-20% downward adjustment by nov08. I won't want to say I will chop if it doesn't happen, cos you know 'experts' are entitled to revise their estimates from time to time ;p

read historical in ex RG thread. i will buy at launch mah. at that price, rivergate becomes good.

[repanse71]

Hi all

If you only have housing loan, no overdraft nor term loans, as long as you service your monthly installment, you are safe and will NOT be asked to top up when valuations falls.

When are you in danger of top up when valuation falls?
1. When you have OD. Either the bank may cut/cancel the OD, or you TOP up.
2. Valuation drops adversely between the loan acceptance and disbursement. i.e. For initial $1m condo with $800k loan, prior to disbursement, $1m->$800k, so need to top up $160k. Usually, this will not affect new launches due to bank-developer tie-up.
3. Refinancing. It's always based on latest valuations.

I work in a bank, I know why some people were asked to top up.
Stop causing and perpetuating unnecessary fear based on unsubstantiated claims and hearsay.

Many of my friends and relatives ask me this top-up question. To date, none has been asked to top up. However, 1 friend has his OD cut 50% by bank so that overall LTV remains <= 80%.

regards

i suggest you talk to some bankers before you give erroneous advice to the members here, it could result in some of them overstretching themselves and getting into financial difficulties. banks DO ask for topup EVEN IF you had been servicing your loans promptly.

[bargain hunter]

i m juz quoting the article below, i never said there is no such "topup" clauses. I am just saying that it does not happen as frequently as u make sound like its a mass margin call everytime the price adjusts downwards. As DW had illustrated, I think you are just being too extreme, saying everytime the house price falls, a whole lot of units are asked to top-up, this is not the case.

BH:

I challenge u that there is no such “topup” clauses in the mortgage contract . Pls read between the line ”The bank USUALLY don,t….”.

If what u said is true ,get the bank to remove such clauses from the contract.

[repanse71]

Hi

Again, this is not true and not bank practice.
See my earlier post on housing loan with OD and TL.

As long as you could pay the installment, bank earns money, no reason to ask for top-up.
Provision and bad-debt is a function of defaults, not valuation.
Forced top-up resulting in more defaults increases provision and bad-debt

People on DPS are in real danger of requiring more cash/CPF as they did not secure loans on the initial purchase price or valuations.

Recent buyer on IAS are not affected due to bank-developer tie-up.

People looking to buy completed properties need to extremely careful about the difference in purchase price and bank valuation as the lower amount determines the loan amount.

regards

Buying Price 1500sf @ $1500psf $2,250,000.00
Loan Amount @ 80% $1,800,000.00
Current Price @ $1200psf $1,800,000.00
Assume Price move to $1000psf in 3 months time $1,500,000.00


Look at the example above , assuming that market continue to move south. The unit will be in negative asset. The bank exposure is > $300K and risk to drop futher is more. Bank would need more provision of bad debt if more and more loan given in this situation. It will hit thier P&L finally.

Finally, these will become toxic asset in bank book... In order to protect bank interest, they might need to force customer top up before the valuation hit $1350psf.

It is not very common currently because most of this units are on DPS scheme. When come to TOP, then the owner getting loan from bank.

[ahlahdin]

Agent told me today that Ferrell sold their remaining 20 units of Rivergate for $1200 psf.

[ahlahdin]

Well bro, i respect your opinion though i don't necessary agree on all of them. So where do u think is a good place to place one's chip now for an investment pty? The Sail? One North? Any other places? N if u don't mind sharing the rationale for it? Tks

Well you don't need to agree with me, but hopefully my little opinion will be heard, especially to the people trying to decide where to buy.

The Sail is good if you can buy it cheap like gfoo. If One North is asking $600 psf, well why not? It is a terrific deal if can get at that price. What about The Rochester? Also very very near MRT. The above are 99 yrs.

If you prefer freehold, I feel that Novena Suites is a good investment property because D11, right next to MRT, next to Harry's Bar and Cold Storage. Best of all, its price. Hard to find this kind of development in D9,10,11 without paying an arm and a leg.

D10 Urban Edge @ Holland as well as The Ford are 2 freehold new builds very near Holland MRT on Circle Line. Although Holland MRT is not as direct to Orchard Road and Raffles Place as the North South Line (Novena, Newton) is, it is still heck of a lot more convenient for expat tenants to get around without getting involved in Singapore's horrendous traffic.

The Shelford - quite new, D11, near Botanic Gardens MRT, which will also be an interchange. This is one of the "ang moh" type of condo, low rise, big grounds, greenery and water everywhere.

There are more, so do your own research.

Of the above 3 I prefer Novena Suites because it is really right next door to MRT, Cold Storage and Harry's Bar! An important consideration for expats.

[bargain hunter]

thanks for your help, i wanted to put the same message across but because i don't work in a bank, i became the one accused of spreading false information. People like i12buyhouse seems to be the ones trying to perpetuate unnecessary fear sounding like people get margin calls like in the stock market everytime the valuation drops. Well, afterall he has an agenda because he wants to buy house but even then, that's no way to mislead fellow forumers.

Hi all

If you only have housing loan, no overdraft nor term loans, as long as you service your monthly installment, you are safe and will NOT be asked to top up when valuations falls.

When are you in danger of top up when valuation falls?
1. When you have OD. Either the bank may cut/cancel the OD, or you TOP up.
2. Valuation drops adversely between the loan acceptance and disbursement. i.e. For initial $1m condo with $800k loan, prior to disbursement, $1m->$800k, so need to top up $160k. Usually, this will not affect new launches due to bank-developer tie-up.
3. Refinancing. It's always based on latest valuations.

I work in a bank, I know why some people were asked to top up.
Stop causing and perpetuating unnecessary fear based on unsubstantiated claims and hearsay.

Many of my friends and relatives ask me this top-up question. To date, none has been asked to top up. However, 1 friend has his OD cut 50% by bank so that overall LTV remains <= 80%.

regards

[gfoo]

Of the above 3 I prefer Novena Suites because it is really right next door to MRT, Cold Storage and Harry's Bar! An important consideration for expats.

lol can tell you love to drink.

Sail low kar (downstairs) got a Harry's Bar, jap sandwich bar, and some health smoothie place. Jason's is setting up a supermart branch at the Sail basement amongst others.

I've been mulling over this sentosa vs marina bay thing over some smokes earlier. i think both offer very different types of living. Sentosa is an exclusive, residential enclave where you can berth your yacht alongside your home. Gated, peaceful, windy, and posh, with the IR as a playground via monorail. The only issue there is lack of amenities across the board, and transportation out to mainland.

The Sail, MBR etc offers something a little more towards Central Park/Manhattan living. Tons of amenities in the basement (MBR, Central Linear Park, Landmark MRT, ORQ, and Raffles Place are all linked), entertainment & shopping at the IR, with a balance of the Gardens by the Bay and the Collyer Quay boardwalk for recreation and relaxation. All are within 5mins walking distance. Unfortunately, all these will be open to the public as well, unlike Sentosa.

I prefer more vibrant living however vs something too sleepy - thus Mbay.

I just pray my decision has been right. If i'm wrong, at least my exposure is minimized.

[gfoo]

thanks for your help, i wanted to put the same message across but because i don't work in a bank, i became the one accused of spreading false information. People like i12buyhouse seems to be the ones trying to perpetuate unnecessary fear sounding like people get margin calls like in the stock market everytime the valuation drops. Well, afterall he has an agenda because he wants to buy house but even then, that's no way to mislead fellow forumers.

I've got tons of ex classmates in senior positions in banks and risk management side of the big 3 accounting firms. This topup issue has been a favourite topic with us between tais.

Local banks have a social compact with Singapore, and the fact that the govt holds substantial interests in them help greatly. Their bread and butter is in the local economy, as are their major interests. Thus shitting where they eat will not help at all - look at DBS' structured fiasco.

Foreign qualifying banks in Singapore contribute to global bottom lines. Yes they have separate P&Ls and different regulatory environments. But they are still subsidiaries of parent, who's bread & butter base ain't Singapore. When it comes to the crunch, the general feeling amongst my friends is that as there is no social compact, it will revert back to what makes the most business sense, as long as it is within the regulatory framework. Law-by-law, they can ask for topups if they want. This is exactly what Citi did to one of the bros here.

Stanchart is the exception due to the Khoo-LKY connection, and the fact that it is practically a singapore-inc owned bank.

[repanse71]

Oops, I forgot 1 more scenario for probable top-up, the riskiest one for both customer and bank. Not sure if we are talking about same bro.

For those opt for interest only housing loan, rather than the usual principal reducing mortgage loan, you are in grave danger for top-up even if there's no reduction in valuation.

Bank generally see such loan as very very risky, treated riskier than those who take OD/TL. Actually, it's a misnomer, such loans are not really housing loans. Such loan don't work towards home ownership as there's zero reduction in customer's loan liability with customer cashing out all rental income.

regards

I've got tons of ex classmates in senior positions in banks and risk management side of the big 3 accounting firms. This topup issue has been a favourite topic with us between tais.

Local banks have a social compact with Singapore, and the fact that the govt holds substantial interests in them help greatly. Their bread and butter is in the local economy, as are their major interests. Thus shitting where they eat will not help at all - look at DBS' structured fiasco.

Foreign qualifying banks in Singapore contribute to global bottom lines. Yes they have separate P&Ls and different regulatory environments. But they are still subsidiaries of parent, who's bread & butter base ain't Singapore. When it comes to the crunch, the general feeling amongst my friends is that as there is no social compact, it will revert back to what makes the most business sense, as long as it is within the regulatory framework. Law-by-law, they can ask for topups if they want. This is exactly what Citi did to one of the bros here.

Stanchart is the exception due to the Khoo-LKY connection, and the fact that it is practically a singapore-inc owned bank.

[repanse71]

Everyone's got their opinion, no right or wrong.

Things may be as bad as the last property bust or worse. But, back then, majority of those "below equity" properties still provided positive cashflow and were profitable to the banks. As long as customer continues to service instalments, bank still profits. Bank not stupid for unnecessary top-ups and foreclosure...

regards

thanks for your help, i wanted to put the same message across but because i don't work in a bank, i became the one accused of spreading false information. People like i12buyhouse seems to be the ones trying to perpetuate unnecessary fear sounding like people get margin calls like in the stock market everytime the valuation drops. Well, afterall he has an agenda because he wants to buy house but even then, that's no way to mislead fellow forumers.

[i12buyhouse]

First , you said "not required to top up if valuation falls, as long as pay up monthly installment on time". Now u revise to " It (topup) does not happend as frequent"



Originally Posted by bargain hunter
Property loans do not work like you buy stocks on margin and keep having margin calls.You are not required to top up your loan everytime the valuation falls even if you are in negative equity. The important thing is to be able to keep servicing the monthly loan installment. You are only required to top up your loan when you want to refinance your property and find yourself unable to meet the valuation.

i m juz quoting the article below, i never said there is no such "topup" clauses. I am just saying that it does not happen as frequently as u make sound like its a mass margin call everytime the price adjusts downwards. As DW had illustrated, I think you are just being too extreme, saying everytime the house price falls, a whole lot of units are asked to top-up, this is not the case.

[i12buyhouse]

I have no agenda to hide as my nick tell everyone that I am going to buy house. Indeed I am looking for a house. Pls contact me if u have good unit to sell.

I am sharing my concern for all potential buyer that the danger of bank force topup if valuation fall is indeed a fact no one can deny. Potential buyer, pls be mindful..

Irresponsible act by BH giving highly misleading info and childish act by launching personal attack on me is low class.

thanks for your help, i wanted to put the same message across but because i don't work in a bank, i became the one accused of spreading false information. People like i12buyhouse seems to be the ones trying to perpetuate unnecessary fear sounding like people get margin calls like in the stock market everytime the valuation drops. Well, afterall he has an agenda because he wants to buy house but even then, that's no way to mislead fellow forumers.