Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Help Needed

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    7

    Default Help Needed

    We would like to buy a condo in this district some time this year. My hubby n I have a combine CPF OA of 120k and an outstanding loan for 50k for a HBD flat. Can we use all of the 120k for e downpayment for the condo or do we need to keep a certain amount for HDB?

    We are looking at a 2rm unit at Metropolitan.. pls pm me if anyone looking to sell.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    I think you need to tell people how much both of you are earning ..
    that one is more important to judging the cashflow needed to service the loan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julim
    We would like to buy a condo in this district some time this year. My hubby n I have a combine CPF OA of 120k and an outstanding loan for 50k for a HBD flat. Can we use all of the 120k for e downpayment for the condo or do we need to keep a certain amount for HDB?

    We are looking at a 2rm unit at Metropolitan.. pls pm me if anyone looking to sell.
    i think you will need to set aside 120k each for minimum sum to our CPF before you can buy 2nd prop, either that or pledge your new property to your minimum sum, not sure.

    Unless you want an extra property to house your parents in the flat and you stay in the condo, the investment market is dead - you are NOT going to get any decent returns.

    If you really want to live in a condo, sell your HDB while the going is still good, wait for another 6 months, then buy the condo. Pay at least 35-50% upfront AFTER leaving 12 months expenses cash buffer. If cannot, you are overstretching

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    This is directly from CPF website. Hope this helps.

    Q: I owned a HDB flat and intend to purchase a private property under RPS after 1 July 2006. Do I also need to set aside the Minimum Sum cash component before I can use my CPF?

    A:
    Yes, provided HDB has no objection to the purchase.
    If your current HDB flat is bought using CPF savings, you can only use your CPF after you have set aside in your Ordinary and Special Accounts (including the amount used for investment from the Special Account) the prevailing Minimum Sum cash component if you are below 55 years, or the Minimum Sum cash component shortfall if you are aged 55 and above. Withdrawals for the new private property will be subject to a Withdrawal Limit of 100% Valuation Limit for properties with at least 60 years of lease, and the applicable Withdrawal Limit for properties with remaining lease of less than 60 years but at least 30 years.
    However, if you intend to sell your existing HDB flat, the Board will allow a grace period for you to sell off your HDB flat. During the grace period, the Minimum Sum cash component requirement will not apply. The grace period is as follows:
    (i) If you are buying a completed property Ė you will be given a grace period of six months to sell off your HDB flat; or
    (ii) If you are buying a property still under construction Ė you will be given a grace period of six months from the issuance of Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) to sell off your HDB flat.
    After the grace period, CPF withdrawals will be stopped for your private property purchased, if you do not meet the Minimum Sum cash component requirement.

    Q: How much is the CPF Minimum Sum?
    A: From 1 July 2008, the CPF Minimum Sum will be increased from $99,600 to $106,000. The Minimum Sum will be raised gradually until it reaches $120,000 (in 2003 dollars) in 2013, and will be adjusted yearly for inflation.

    Q: How much can I use from the amount refunded under the CPF Minimum Sum Scheme, for the purchase of another property?

    A:
    The amount you can use is based on the cash in excess of the required Minimum Sum cash component.
    Examples illustrating the amounts that can used for the next property (Computation is based on Book Value ie. the original or principal amounts of cash and property pledge without accrued interest)
    Example 1

    Where the memberís cohort Minimum Sum is $106,000, of which at least $53,000 must be in cash
    Before property is sold:
    After property is sold:
    Cash : $53,000
    Cash : $106,000
    Pledge : $53,000
    Pledge : $0
    Shortfall : $0
    Shortfall : $0
    Total : $106,000
    Total : $106,000


    In example 1 above, the member can use $53,000 (ie.$106,000 less required Minimum Sum cash component of $53,000) to pay for the next property.

    Example 2
    Where the memberís cohort Minimum Sum is $106,000, of which at least $53,000 must be in cash
    Before property is sold:
    After property is sold:
    Cash : $50,000
    Cash : $86,000
    Pledge : $36,000
    Pledge : $0
    Shortfall : $20,000
    Shortfall : $20,000
    Total : $106,000
    Total : $106,000

    In example 2 above, the member can use $33,000 (ie.$86,000 less required Minimum Sum cash component of $53,000) to pay for the next property.

    Example 3
    Where the memberís cohort Minimum Sum is $106,000, of which at least $53,000 must be in cash
    Before property is sold:
    After property is sold:
    Cash : $6,000
    Cash : $45,000
    Pledge : $39,000
    Pledge : $0
    Shortfall : $61,000
    Shortfall : $61,000
    Total : $106,000
    Total : $106,000

    In example 3 above, the member cannot use any amount to pay for the next property as there is no excess cash above the required Minimum Sum cash component of $53,000.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Thank you all for your inputs. Am still confused....

    Both of us have a regular monthly income of about 120k per annum and we are planning to purchase a condo for stay but not for investment purpose...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Firstly, you must satisfy the condition that you have lived at least 5yrs in your current hdb if your purchase directly from HDB.

    Secondly, assuming you already used 50k for your existing hdb and has a balanced of 20k available. Upon selling your hdb, you have total 70k in cpf. You must set aside 53k and the rest of 17k you can use for the condo payment.

    Thirdly, combined $120k means about $108k left after cpf. Minus $50k for expenses (insurance, transport, etc) , you should have balance of abt $60k. Have you check out how much it cost for a 2bedrm unit?

    Be prepare for the mthly installment. Assuming it cost $800k, you need to have cash of bet 160k to 240k for the first 20-30%. Stamp fee is another $18.6k. All these have to pay in cash if you buy the condo before selling yr hdb.

    For ease of calculatioin, If you take an installment of 80% which is 640k for 20yrs with 2% interest today, your mthly installment is $3.2k mthly or $38,200 yearly. If the interest goes up to 3% 2yrs later, yr installment is $3.5k mthly or $42k yearly.

    The above figures are just examples. You still have to do your own financial assesment before commiting to a condo.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,493

    Default

    Actually you can buy a condo without selling your HDB flat. Also look around for projects and press the developer to absorb the stamp fees.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    333

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by julim
    Thank you all for your inputs. Am still confused....

    Both of us have a regular monthly income of about 120k per annum and we are planning to purchase a condo for stay but not for investment purpose...
    Hi Julim,

    Basically things will be easier if you can enlighten me whether or not you will be looking to sell your existing HDB flat. Kindly refer to the following for your property investment.

    a) YES, Flat will be sold! : you do not have to worry about the minimum sum as once your flat had been sold, cpf board will automatically assume your existing property as the only property to be pledge as the 50% of whatever minimum sum then. You may also continue to utilise cpf for your monthly mortgage loan repayment as such. Therefore, you will not have to worry on the minimum sum regulation since your new property is the only existing property.

    b) NO, Flat will not be sold! : in this case, you will have to set aside a minimum sum depending on the regulated amount by cpf board then before you can utilise your cpf for your new property, be it for downpayment, stamp duty, monthly instalment etc.

    Minimum Sum regulation will be applicable to both husband and wife meaning to say each of you have to set a minimum sum of $53k in you cpf account (oa & sa combined). if the total available cpf combining for both of you is $120k now then in that case after setting aside the $53k in your account, balance can then be utilised. the same will apply to your husband. but that will kinda interpreted to be only a couple of thousands available for both of you utilising for your 2nd property then.

    ***NOTE: You may utilise your cpf for payment of your property up to a MAX 95% of the Purchase Price + Stamp Duty in any case dependent of your qualification of cpf utilisation in the minimum sum regulation.***

    Trust the above is clear, please do not hesitate to drop me a line @ 82818888 should you have any further clarifications pertaining loan & or cpf minimum sum matters.

    Cheers!


    Pet

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    7

    Default Thank You

    Hi All,

    Thank you for all e replies.

    We are not planning to sell our HDB. If we fully paid up the 50k HDB loan using our OA, do we still need to set the 53k of the minimum sum?

    I thot buying a new condo is easy but everything seems so complicated!

    Hi Pet,
    Will give you a call when we are ready to buy a new condo!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julim
    Hi All,

    Thank you for all e replies.

    We are not planning to sell our HDB. If we fully paid up the 50k HDB loan using our OA, do we still need to set the 53k of the minimum sum?

    I thot buying a new condo is easy but everything seems so complicated!

    Hi Pet,
    Will give you a call when we are ready to buy a new condo!
    Yes. each of you must keep aside spare 53k in OA. That is, the OA balance must be 53k and above before you can go buy a pte . And when you buy pte, you cannot touch this 53k minimum sum. only the balance over and above the 53k. So if each of you have OA balance of $100k, you can use only $47k each to buy pte. If you have 50k OA balance, you are not eligible to buy pte. Whatever OA you use to pay your loan cannot be counted.

    pet is very good and hardworking agent - i highly recommend! but dun give him chance - squeeeeze!!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,493

    Default

    Err... should actually read as 53k from a combined total of OA & SA (including those used for investments). That is your minimum sum cash component. You still "owe" the other half via the property pledged. And this Minimum sum increases yearly till 2013.

    ps - don't call me. I am not an agent, just your friendly OKT

    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    Yes. each of you must keep aside spare 53k in OA. That is, the OA balance must be 53k and above before you can go buy a pte . And when you buy pte, you cannot touch this 53k minimum sum. only the balance over and above the 53k. So if each of you have OA balance of $100k, you can use only $47k each to buy pte. If you have 50k OA balance, you are not eligible to buy pte. Whatever OA you use to pay your loan cannot be counted.

    pet is very good and hardworking agent - i highly recommend! but dun give him chance - squeeeeze!!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    333

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    Yes. each of you must keep aside spare 53k in OA. That is, the OA balance must be 53k and above before you can go buy a pte . And when you buy pte, you cannot touch this 53k minimum sum. only the balance over and above the 53k. So if each of you have OA balance of $100k, you can use only $47k each to buy pte. If you have 50k OA balance, you are not eligible to buy pte. Whatever OA you use to pay your loan cannot be counted.

    pet is very good and hardworking agent - i highly recommend! but dun give him chance - squeeeeze!!!

    Wow bro... thanks for the testimonial... if i am from the developer I sure give all of you special price! unfortunately am not... but be reassure that I will do my very best to help you buy the dream home of yours.


    Pet
    Last edited by Petmail; 31-01-09 at 11:42.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julim
    Hi All,

    Thank you for all e replies.

    We are not planning to sell our HDB. If we fully paid up the 50k HDB loan using our OA, do we still need to set the 53k of the minimum sum?

    I thot buying a new condo is easy but everything seems so complicated!

    Hi Pet,
    Will give you a call when we are ready to buy a new condo!

    No problems and thanks a million for the opportunity to find you a dream home!


    Pet

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petmail
    No problems and thanks a million for the opportunity to find you a dream home!


    Pet
    Greetings

    I predict the market still has some room to fall. Maybe Q3 can start to look.


    OKT

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    TQ, #xx-03
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Best is to call CPF to clear your doubts. I was as confused as you before
    Last edited by kennt; 01-02-09 at 04:07.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,493

    Default

    Let me try to help out in layman's terms. The most basic rule is ....

    If you and wife want to buy a second property using CPF monies,

    1. You and wife must each first retain half the minimum sum (currently $53k) also known as the minimum sum cash component in each of your combined OA & SA accounts (including the sum used for investments). Then you can utilise the remainder.


    OKT

    Caveat, I am not an agent although I probably know as much (or more).

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Can I assume e following if I've met all e criteria on buying a pte property :-

    1) Current CPF OA = $50k
    2) SA = $20k
    3) Investment = $40k
    Balance able to use for 2nd property = 50 + 20 + 40 - 53k(min. sum)
    = $57K!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by julim
    Can I assume e following if I've met all e criteria on buying a pte property :-

    1) Current CPF OA = $50k
    2) SA = $20k
    3) Investment = $40k
    Balance able to use for 2nd property = 50 + 20 + 40 - 53k(min. sum)
    = $57K!
    Hi,

    Actually the criteria on buying a property doesn't really need to see your cpf min sum. It is only a criteria if you are using cpf for purchase via first 20% downpayment or installment.

    I am not sure about the investment portion as there may be other criteria (Best is to call cpf to check) but assuming that if the investment amount is able to be used to compute, your calculation will be correct.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petmail
    Hi Julim,

    Basically things will be easier if you can enlighten me whether or not you will be looking to sell your existing HDB flat. Kindly refer to the following for your property investment.

    a) YES, Flat will be sold! : you do not have to worry about the minimum sum as once your flat had been sold, cpf board will automatically assume your existing property as the only property to be pledge as the 50% of whatever minimum sum then. You may also continue to utilise cpf for your monthly mortgage loan repayment as such. Therefore, you will not have to worry on the minimum sum regulation since your new property is the only existing property.

    b) NO, Flat will not be sold! : in this case, you will have to set aside a minimum sum depending on the regulated amount by cpf board then before you can utilise your cpf for your new property, be it for downpayment, stamp duty, monthly instalment etc.

    Minimum Sum regulation will be applicable to both husband and wife meaning to say each of you have to set a minimum sum of $53k in you cpf account (oa & sa combined). if the total available cpf combining for both of you is $120k now then in that case after setting aside the $53k in your account, balance can then be utilised. the same will apply to your husband. but that will kinda interpreted to be only a couple of thousands available for both of you utilising for your 2nd property then.

    ***NOTE: You may utilise your cpf for payment of your property up to a MAX 95% of the Purchase Price + Stamp Duty in any case dependent of your qualification of cpf utilisation in the minimum sum regulation.***

    Trust the above is clear, please do not hesitate to drop me a line @ 82818888 should you have any further clarifications pertaining loan & or cpf minimum sum matters.

    Cheers!


    Pet
    Hi Petmail,

    For (a) does that mean that we can still use the CPF OA to pay for the 15% downpayment and stamp duty if we are buying a new development which will only TOP in a few years time.

    What if we decide not to sell the HDB flat subsequently? But by then, we should already have sufficed the 50% of the minimum sum.

    Appreciate your clarification if possible. Thks

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    211

    Default

    I'm also confused abt this CPF min sum policy.

    eg.
    1st property was purchase w/o using CPF fund. Plan to use CPF for mthly installment.
    For 2nd property , if use CPF to purchase.
    Q1. Do buyer subjected to the min sum policy?

    Or
    1st property was purchase w/o using CPF fund. Temp don't use CPF for mthly installment
    For 2nd property , use CPF to purchase.
    Q2. Do buyer subjected to the min sum policy?
    Q3. After the 2nd property purchase, can buyer use the balance CPF for the 1st property mthly installment?


    $58 500 is the present min sum.
    eg. If SA account (include the investment) is $58500, does it mean buyer can use all the OA fund?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acer
    I'm also confused abt this CPF min sum policy.

    eg.
    1st property was purchase w/o using CPF fund. Plan to use CPF for mthly installment.
    For 2nd property , if use CPF to purchase.
    Q1. Do buyer subjected to the min sum policy?

    Or
    1st property was purchase w/o using CPF fund. Temp don't use CPF for mthly installment
    For 2nd property , use CPF to purchase.
    Q2. Do buyer subjected to the min sum policy?
    Q3. After the 2nd property purchase, can buyer use the balance CPF for the 1st property mthly installment?


    $58 500 is the present min sum.
    eg. If SA account (include the investment) is $58500, does it mean buyer can use all the OA fund?


    Q1: No
    Q2: Yes
    Q3: Not sure. sorry. anyone knows pls advise Acer

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    191

    Default

    i also have some questions on this topic:

    me and my wife have an existing HDB.

    current status (illustration only), both OA+SA combined:

    my CPF: 50k (doesnt meet min sum requirement)
    my wife cpf: 120k (meets min sum requriement, excess of 65k usable)
    Assume min sum of 55k requirement

    Say we want to buy a pvt property now. Questions:

    1. given the above that ONLY one of us meets the min sum, by law are we allowed to co-joint and buy a pvt property and use either/both CPF to co-fund? or does the law dictates that BOTH MUST meet min sum in order to use CPF to own a 2nd property?

    2. If above is ok, then how is the "usable" amt being calculated? Is it based on [Combined fund of 170k - 2x Min Sum = 60k] OR simply my wife's excess?

    3. if one day i hit the min sum already, can i start to contribute to the loan repayment?


    Appreciate experts views and advices on this.

    Thanks.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xtink
    i also have some questions on this topic:

    me and my wife have an existing HDB.

    current status (illustration only), both OA+SA combined:

    my CPF: 50k (doesnt meet min sum requirement)
    my wife cpf: 120k (meets min sum requriement, excess of 65k usable)
    Assume min sum of 55k requirement

    Say we want to buy a pvt property now. Questions:

    1. given the above that ONLY one of us meets the min sum, by law are we allowed to co-joint and buy a pvt property and use either/both CPF to co-fund? or does the law dictates that BOTH MUST meet min sum in order to use CPF to own a 2nd property?

    2. If above is ok, then how is the "usable" amt being calculated? Is it based on [Combined fund of 170k - 2x Min Sum = 60k] OR simply my wife's excess?

    3. if one day i hit the min sum already, can i start to contribute to the loan repayment?


    Appreciate experts views and advices on this.

    Thanks.
    If you own a HDB, it is not the cpf min sum you must question but the min occupation period. If direct from HDB, you need to fulfil the MOP which is 5 years. As for resale, if you took the housing grant, the MOP is also 5 years.

    http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10206p....s?OpenDocument

    Next, assuming that you fulfill the MOP, to use your cpf for installment or initial purchase of the 2nd property, you need to keep a min sum in OA + SA which is $59K (I think) wef 1 Jul 2009.

    Answer to your questions:
    1) No need to have min sum. If you are rich. Can use cash to finance the 2nd property.
    2) Each individual excess. Meaning only your wife excess till you reach the min Sum, you can use for your installment.
    3) As per above.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    191

    Default

    thanks for the reply. regarding the MOP, if i bought the HDB on the resale mkt, no grant, and loan is from pvt bank, is MOP still applicable?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xtink
    thanks for the reply. regarding the MOP, if i bought the HDB on the resale mkt, no grant, and loan is from pvt bank, is MOP still applicable?

    In is in the link. Anyway here:


    For Flats bought from the open market without CPF Housing Grant

    • There is no need to satisfy the required occupation period for the flat before acquiring the private property. However, the flat owners must continue to stay in the HDB flat after acquiring the private property. Exception is made for those who have obtained prior approval from HDB to sublet the flat under the Subletting of Flat policy.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xtink
    i also have some questions on this topic:

    me and my wife have an existing HDB.

    current status (illustration only), both OA+SA combined:

    my CPF: 50k (doesnt meet min sum requirement)
    my wife cpf: 120k (meets min sum requriement, excess of 65k usable)
    Assume min sum of 55k requirement

    Say we want to buy a pvt property now. Questions:

    1. given the above that ONLY one of us meets the min sum, by law are we allowed to co-joint and buy a pvt property and use either/both CPF to co-fund? or does the law dictates that BOTH MUST meet min sum in order to use CPF to own a 2nd property?

    2. If above is ok, then how is the "usable" amt being calculated? Is it based on [Combined fund of 170k - 2x Min Sum = 60k] OR simply my wife's excess?

    3. if one day i hit the min sum already, can i start to contribute to the loan repayment?


    Appreciate experts views and advices on this.

    Thanks.
    Your Q1 is exactly what I am asking as well. Have called up CPF and asked them about the setting aside of 50% CPF Min sum before using OA to buy 2nd property.

    I was told by the CPF exec that when you buy a property that is in development and get your lawyer to declare that you will sell off the HDB property within 6 months of the TOP, this min sum requirement will be waived and you can utilised the funds to buy the property now.

    What if you decide to hold on to the HDB when your pte property TOP? CPF exec confirmed that they will activate the min sum requirement then. Which means to say that we can still use our OA now to pay for any new development cause while waiting for the property to TOP, your OA and SA will also build up and suffice the min sum then.

    Anyone care to authenticate this?

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moshimoshi
    Your Q1 is exactly what I am asking as well. Have called up CPF and asked them about the setting aside of 50% CPF Min sum before using OA to buy 2nd property.

    I was told by the CPF exec that when you buy a property that is in development and get your lawyer to declare that you will sell off the HDB property within 6 months of the TOP, this min sum requirement will be waived and you can utilised the funds to buy the property now.

    What if you decide to hold on to the HDB when your pte property TOP? CPF exec confirmed that they will activate the min sum requirement then. Which means to say that we can still use our OA now to pay for any new development cause while waiting for the property to TOP, your OA and SA will also build up and suffice the min sum then.

    Anyone care to authenticate this?
    This is possible but once TOP, you cannot use your cpf for installment as it did not meet the min sum requirement. It is a delay of affordability/payment tactic. So far I don't think there are any enforcement that you have to sell your hdb once you pte property TOP although this is what you declared, the rule may change.

    Very often this is used for those who flip the property before TOP but end up burnt when they cannot sell their pte property. Or when the pte property TOP, the property value for hdb drop and they do not want to sell at a lost.

    In short, do think twice on affordability before using this plan. Meaning, unless you can afford to pay cash for installment at later stage if you cannot sell your hdb or intending to hold two property.

Similar Threads

  1. HELP: How much is needed?
    By yowetan in forum Finance and Legal
    Replies: 54
    -: 22-05-15, 18:57
  2. Guidance Needed
    By el loco in forum HDB, EC, commercial and industrial property discussion
    Replies: 6
    -: 20-12-13, 10:26
  3. Advice needed for a MTB
    By door in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 27
    -: 02-07-13, 12:00
  4. Advice Needed Pls
    By aureus in forum Finance and Legal
    Replies: 4
    -: 25-07-12, 17:05
  5. Information needed
    By blessy888 in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 24
    -: 02-10-10, 13:01

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •