800k to 850k, can find a condo near Novena MRT?

[HP65]

You will also have to compare the price against the size to be exactly accurate. I agrees that the profiles of the owner in the projects are relatively important too but looking at Newton Edge, the owners are mainly Businessman, Bankers as well as Doctors. It does gives you some time to reconsider if Newton Edge is not a better buy than Newton Suites since Newton Edge is within D9 compared to Newton Suites in D11 and that area is always being associate as novena instead of Newton by itself, MRT station being Newton MRT and we knows for sure if it Newton MRT also means it will be part of orchard as well. transport access to town & orchard are within minutes. Competition is another factor to consider since we are comparing a low density area against a really high density area like novena.

Anyhow, these are just some of my personal opinions though.


Pet

Personally, I think NS is significantly better located than NE as NE requires driving through single lane roads (for drivers) and walking through some dark, poorly-lit roads. Trying to go to that area around NE at night and you will know what I mean. Plus some of those old duplex houses are rented out to students from China and other foreign workers so the profile of residents may not necessary be your businessman, doctors etc.

On the other hand NS is located near the main road and shorter walking distance to Novena MRT.

As for whether D9 or D11 is more desirable, I leave it to the buyers to decide coz I personally feel that some of the so-called D9 projects like Parc Emily and NE seems more like a D8 area. So I will gladly take a D11 project over these `D9' projects, but this just my own opinion.

And the last factor I consider NS being superior to NE, its landscaping by WOHA. Beautiful.

[HP65]

Hi there, When was it you went to Newton Edge? Which unit of the 753saft were you considering then? Currently only 3units available for the 753sqft.

Also to comment on the reply you guys have mentioned earlier in the thread... Just like to share my personal thoughts and feelings about human greeds and mindset.

Its always that little greed that we have that when we ought to be taking profits ended up having lesser or even incurring loses cos of greed and also due to our human nature of greed that we thought of having a little more savings that we often ended up paying more... In fact most of us are guilty of such acts including myself.

if we do analyse TOPed projects & projects under construction carefully, the price indication are of a different level. TOPed project price level are motivated or demotivated by the market sentiments depending on individual owner's confidence in the particular moment while projects underconstruction are often priced in such a way that it is actually selling as a future price buying at current time. TOPed project have units available are defintely affected positive or negative basing of market changes while projects underconstruction do not have units available and will only very much affected by the market changes when the units are physically available to be affected if so we decided to call it.

Take an example for projects underconstruction like Newton Edge. If current price @ $1100-$1300psf (AVG $1200psf) and will only TOP by 2nd qtr 2011 then in that case whatever happens in the market within the next two and a half year should relatively have no connections to the units as long as the loan was secured in the first place unless it so called sold with Deferred Payment Scheme. And relatively cos its bought @ future price means its being priced in consideration of the next two years of inflation rate. and if the market does take two and a half years to recover and by then Newton Edge TOP. What should be the rightful fair market value of Newton Edge? Market Competitiveness against neighbouring projects with similar types/sizes/tenure etc should also come in place. say being conservative about the pricing by then and we do a estimation to the market basing on the current so called bad market sentiment against projects like Park Infinia for example. The latest average transaction of Park Infinia since launch till today takes an avg pricing of 1400psf conservatively. And now we assume that the fair market value of Newton Edge be of the current avg price of Park Inifinia which is located in D11. on thaty basis there should be already an avg capital appreciation of $200psf. Even by being conservative by taking price indication of D9 using the guage of D11 with the consideration of market diorecovery in place yet pricing before market recovery; we clearly can see that we are looking at a property which have definite upside potential. Despite the fact of a price increment of 2% by developer, we are still able to enjoy a pretty good profit outt it. On that basis, do you think both the developer who did priced it at such unreasonable off-market price as well as the person who does recommended us the property be commented???

Just my two cents worth with open-mind and positive thoughts on your earlier current discussion pertaining to price drops in Newton endge. I knew for sure there will be never similiar project asking any better then what Newton Edge is currently offering to us right this moment.


Pet

The numbers of $1400 psf ave are mainly for the smaller developer units. If you were to buy from sub-sale, its closer to $1000-1200 psf. So I would say good luck to the 80% buyers of NE. And for others looking at NE or thought they have missed the boat for NE, fret not. There are better value and nicer projects just across the canal by more established developers. After seeing the layout of NE, I'm totally disgusted that somebody actually think this sort of holes are fit for human stay! 2-seater sofa in the living room PH? Doh? How to entertain friends? Bring them to Newton Hawker Centre?? What a joke.

In the pursuit of pure short term profits, designing smaller area units so as to make it affordable for more people to push sales, that is not a wise decision imo.

[repanse71]

The numbers of $1400 psf ave are mainly for the smaller developer units. If you were to buy from sub-sale, its closer to $1000-1200 psf. So I would say good luck to the 80% buyers of NE. And for others looking at NE or thought they have missed the boat for NE, fret not. There are better value and nicer projects just across the canal by more established developers. After seeing the layout of NE, I'm totally disgusted that somebody actually think this sort of holes are fit for human stay! 2-seater sofa in the living room PH? Doh? How to entertain friends? Bring them to Newton Hawker Centre?? What a joke.

In the pursuit of pure short term profits, designing smaller area units so as to make it affordable for more people to push sales, that is not a wise decision imo.

Not unimaginable in the future. My friend was stationed in HK for 2 years. Rented a smallish(big by HK std for a couple) 1+1 500sf place in wanchai for S$4/mth, considered a steal, 20min walk to MTR. I believe SG slowly, but surely, moving in same directions.

@Pet.
For UOB deal, is it cash 5% only, with 15% + ~3-4% stamp duty all CPF???? For 2+S, 9xxsf @$1.1k psf, only need ~50k????

Regards

[dmonddd]

no matter how low the prices are coming down to...banks have sharply reduced financing margin and are very selective. This means that buyer needs to come up with higher down payment. If sellers don't see this soon, they may have to hold on to vacant properties.

[repanse71]

no matter how low the prices are coming down to...banks have sharply reduced financing margin and are very selective. This means that buyer needs to come up with higher down payment. If sellers don't see this soon, they may have to hold on to vacant properties.

Yeah man. Just a few months ago, I got myself a starting rate 0.75%+SIBOR, annual reduction of 0.1% till 0.55%+SIBOR. Now, starting rate is 0.9%.

Anyone know the difference between SOR and SIBOR ????

Regards

[dmon]

Yeah man. Just a few months ago, I got myself a starting rate 0.75%+SIBOR, annual reduction of 0.1% till 0.55%+SIBOR. Now, starting rate is 0.9%.

Anyone know the difference between SOR and SIBOR ????

Regards

the reply by G-man would explain your query. SOR is higher
http://www.expatsingapore.com/forum/...276.msg1367511

[Petmail]

The numbers of $1400 psf ave are mainly for the smaller developer units. If you were to buy from sub-sale, its closer to $1000-1200 psf. So I would say good luck to the 80% buyers of NE. And for others looking at NE or thought they have missed the boat for NE, fret not. There are better value and nicer projects just across the canal by more established developers. After seeing the layout of NE, I'm totally disgusted that somebody actually think this sort of holes are fit for human stay! 2-seater sofa in the living room PH? Doh? How to entertain friends? Bring them to Newton Hawker Centre?? What a joke.

In the pursuit of pure short term profits, designing smaller area units so as to make it affordable for more people to push sales, that is not a wise decision imo.

if we do look at the pricing carefully, the 1400psf avg are not just smaller development but also bigger developments. if comparing the sizes between singapore and the other neighbouring competitive countries, the sizes in singapore are relatively much more spacious. on top of that, the showflat layout that you have seen is one of the smallest 1bedroom layout. if you do take the avg 2bedroom layout for comparison, you realise that most of the layout are still comparable to the hdb 3rm flat. lets not get too personal about whether it does seems fit for human to stay as by quoting there it will generally means most of the hdb 3rm owners are no longer human being in that case. even the sizes for hdb flat has also came down quite substantially over the last decade too.


Pet

[Petmail]

Not unimaginable in the future. My friend was stationed in HK for 2 years. Rented a smallish(big by HK std for a couple) 1+1 500sf place in wanchai for S$4/mth, considered a steal, 20min walk to MTR. I believe SG slowly, but surely, moving in same directions.

@Pet.
For UOB deal, is it cash 5% only, with 15% + ~3-4% stamp duty all CPF???? For 2+S, 9xxsf @$1.1k psf, only need ~50k????

Regards

hi repanse71,

yes.. 5% booking fee to be paid in cash, 15% can be by cpf/cash or both. stamp duty of 3% on purchase price minus $5400 can be by cpf or cash. thus your booking fee in cash will work out approx. $50k.

If you do need further clarification on the payment scheme or related issues like financing. please do not hesitate to drop me a line @ 82818888.

Cheers!

Pet

[HP65]

if we do look at the pricing carefully, the 1400psf avg are not just smaller development but also bigger developments. if comparing the sizes between singapore and the other neighbouring competitive countries, the sizes in singapore are relatively much more spacious. on top of that, the showflat layout that you have seen is one of the smallest 1bedroom layout. if you do take the avg 2bedroom layout for comparison, you realise that most of the layout are still comparable to the hdb 3rm flat. lets not get too personal about whether it does seems fit for human to stay as by quoting there it will generally means most of the hdb 3rm owners are no longer human being in that case. even the sizes for hdb flat has also came down quite substantially over the last decade too.


Pet

Er, I don't think it's personal at all and its just facts. In fact, you have chosen a good comparison in HDB 3-Rm because at least HDB quoted floor area doesn't have as much wasted space like bay-windows AND the psf is 20% of NE.

So I think its definitely more liveable, so to speak, than NE and also without needing to pay an arm and leg to the developer who has paid very little for the small plot of land to the previous landed house owners. Thus I feel residents of HDB 3-roomers actually have a much better quality of life than living in pigeon holes of NE. Unless of coz one derives pleasure and associate quality of live with having a condo address, no matter how small the unit is.

In short, buyers of NE and and some of the recent developments, are getting short-changed due to the extreme profit orientation of developers. I for sure will never buy, stay nor rent such units. And buyers should boycott new developments like these so that developers better start designing bigger units.

And lets not compare Singapore with Hong Kong. Just becoz they choose to live in pigeon holes doesn't mean residents of Singapore has to do the same.

[Petmail]

yes bro.. #3 & #5 is already taken... actually the 700sqft does not really gets affected by the west sun and there are chances of some orchard views as well. pretty ideal for rental. I seriously do not know why the agent attending to you did not follow up wit you on it.


Pet

[Petmail]

do you think if today hdb is to announce building a hdb flat in a similar plot of land, they will sell them cheap? what kinda of price would they sell? $600k onwards or would they launch @ 300k? should pte apt be cheaper than hdb? if so then why should we bother buying pte since the lifestyle of hdb would be a better choice to made in that case?

I would think if we would like to make any comparison, we have to look all round rather than looking at it in one angle which I personally feels that its not comprehensive enough to support your statement though. If most of us are simply waiting for opportunity from developer on fire sale and eventually sell say @ 800psf then I personally doubt so it will ever happen in D9 ever.

If you have any preference in other projects and feels that other projects is better than its all pretty fine too since one man's meat is another man's poison. there are people who have the money but will never choose to buy pte while some will never buy apt and insist landed only. people who loves a particular development will always thinks that development is better no matter what happens... In every development, there are always pros and cons to everyone. you wanna bigger units you have to pay a higher quantum while you prefers a bigger projects you have to undertake the fact that you will be facing a lot of people utilising the facilities, maintenance etc.

I also wish price for housing will drop back to the level and time where we could buy a hdb at only less than 100k for a brand new hdb flats but that could never happens anymore. cos that will only means that singapore is taking steps in going back towards the fishing village time where we used to be..


Pet

[CondoSearch]

indeed a property agent talk...anyway it only right for one to defend own rice bowl... but i getting bored though...and personally think it overpriced still...

hope those jump in are in within their own mean...

[Farnie]

indeed a property agent talk...anyway it only right for one to defend own rice bowl... but i getting bored though...and personally think it overpriced still...

hope those jump in are in within their own mean...

They can talk all they want, end of the day, money is in our pockets. We dun buy, they can't force us to. Sooner or later, when they understand why they are not closing sales, they will realise its because they have been serving the wrong master.

Tried to explain to the agent so as to pass the message to developer, instead try to do typical sales talk. Indeed, boring.

[Petmail]

this is not a typical agent talk.. I am giving my personal opinion as I have said. I do welcome feedbacks and constructive comments from all here though.. if you choose to get too personal then its entirely up to you.


Pet

[Petmail]

They can talk all they want, end of the day, money is in our pockets. We dun buy, they can't force us to. Sooner or later, when they understand why they are not closing sales, they will realise its because they have been serving the wrong master.

Tried to explain to the agent so as to pass the message to developer, instead try to do typical sales talk. Indeed, boring.

For your information, I am a business person and talk in business point of view. I do not serve any master cos I dun work for anyone.. Being in Real Estate is the choice I made in establishing my own career and business. When I share my views or even invited them down for any new launch, I treat them as my business partner and thus am only interested in making sure they make profits out from it in time to come. I dun take a listing from anybody and tries to market it when I think its not realistically and sensible for me to do so. if you think you like to have agents who will only know how to suck up to you like your workers/staffs then there are plenty of them available out there.. But I certainly do not.. I certainly think that you are one wise & sensible investor though since you also do not choose to invest as you would like to.


Pet

[Petmail]

indeed a property agent talk...anyway it only right for one to defend own rice bowl... but i getting bored though...and personally think it overpriced still...

hope those jump in are in within their own mean...

Am sure all the 80 over buyers are buying within their means.. I certainly do not wish to see them buying when they do not have the means to too..


Pet

[repanse71]

Er, I don't think it's personal at all and its just facts. In fact, you have chosen a good comparison in HDB 3-Rm because at least HDB quoted floor area doesn't have as much wasted space like bay-windows AND the psf is 20% of NE.

So I think its definitely more liveable, so to speak, than NE and also without needing to pay an arm and leg to the developer who has paid very little for the small plot of land to the previous landed house owners. Thus I feel residents of HDB 3-roomers actually have a much better quality of life than living in pigeon holes of NE. Unless of coz one derives pleasure and associate quality of live with having a condo address, no matter how small the unit is.

In short, buyers of NE and and some of the recent developments, are getting short-changed due to the extreme profit orientation of developers. I for sure will never buy, stay nor rent such units. And buyers should boycott new developments like these so that developers better start designing bigger units.

And lets not compare Singapore with Hong Kong. Just becoz they choose to live in pigeon holes doesn't mean residents of Singapore has to do the same.

Pigeon holes. We got no choice here. A few years back, even our dear PM LHL said it's inevitable.

My parent's first HDB 5 room was 140sqm, and next one was 13X sqm. My own is 118sqm. Similar downsizing for HDB 3 and 4 rooms as well.

The downsizing is more severe for private housing. Looking at the various brochures/showflats in T.Kurau, Newton/Novena/Balestier, Woodsville/Intero, BH/OSM, rangoon/farrer park... it's now "rabbit cage" stage, gradually progressing into pigeon holes :-p

I seriously doubt how much buyers could influence home sizes.
BTW, I tot URA has disallowed adding baywindows into area computation???

Regards

[ahlahdin]

aiyah talk so much for what. which salesman will say his wares suck? you know I know can already lah.

smart people can see how pathetic NE units are.

as for the stupid ones who bought... well we are a zero-sum economy that is rapidly shrinking. in order to have winners we must have more losers, right?

[Petmail]

Pigeon holes. We got no choice here. A few years back, even our dear PM LHL said it's inevitable.

My parent's first HDB 5 room was 140sqm, and next one was 13X sqm. My own is 118sqm. Similar downsizing for HDB 3 and 4 rooms as well.

The downsizing is more severe for private housing. Looking at the various brochures/showflats in T.Kurau, Newton/Novena/Balestier, Woodsville/Intero, BH/OSM, rangoon/farrer park... it's now "rabbit cage" stage, gradually progressing into pigeon holes :-p

I seriously doubt how much buyers could influence home sizes.
BTW, I tot URA has disallowed adding baywindows into area computation???

Regards

its downsizing cos of the scarce land available in singapore that we have to eventually accept it. even my own 5rm in tampines is only 124sqm.

btw, the bay window computation is not disallowed but is currently now chargeable according to ura.

Anyhow, its up to individual what they prefers to buy.. if they choose to buy a bigger size and pay a larger quantum then its their choice though there are people who prefers to have smaller units nowadays too.


Pet

[repanse71]

its downsizing cos of the scarce land available in singapore that we have to eventually accept it. even my own 5rm in tampines is only 124sqm.

btw, the bay window computation is not disallowed but is currently now chargeable according to ura.

Anyhow, its up to individual what they prefers to buy.. if they choose to buy a bigger size and pay a larger quantum then its their choice though there are people who prefers to have smaller units nowadays too.


Pet

For property, this downturn is different from next downturn. Both buyer and seller are smarter.

For buyers, many work their finances such that their reserve, CPF or other means, could cover installment for long time. There will be always be stupid and greedy ones playing beyond their means.

For developers, burnt badly last round, have sizeable cash hoard to just sit tight for 2 years. Like wise, some non-the-wiser ones will be facing cahflow problems.

So, there will be some fire sales, but definitely not broad price collapse.

Enter the market with your eyes big big....

While there are many black sheeps among the prop agents, most are just trying to make a living, like you and me. Be nice.

Regards

[taggy]

hi hi...
anyone went to see the I-RESIDENCES ? today full page ad in ST.
I went to see this and nova 88/48 today, looking at 2 rm unit.

personally i prefer IR, cos think can walk to novena mrt, measure myself ard 500m. And also Interior seems better.
The agent say can try offering 900psf to developer...

What do u guys think about these 2 developments ?
investment value ?
or wait further to see 800+++ psf?

[taggy]

hi hi...
anyone went to see the I-RESIDENCES ? today full page ad in ST.
I went to see this and nova 88/48 today, looking at 2 rm unit.

personally i prefer IR, cos think can walk to novena mrt, measure myself ard 500m. And also Interior seems better.
The agent say can try offering 900psf to developer...

What do u guys think about these 2 developments ?
investment value ?
or wait further to see 800+++ psf?

forget to mention.... IR is not without short coming, the unit i m looking, the balcony is half the size of the living room!

[ahlahdin]

forget to mention.... IR is not without short coming, the unit i m looking, the balcony is half the size of the living room!

I wonder what is the attraction of brand new condo? They are grossly overpriced. Why not look at some fairly new ones that have TOP'ed, about one or 2 years old. Owners bought cheap during launch about 4 or 5 years ago so their selling price could be lower too.

Any condo you buy, whether brand new from developer or almost new from reseller, require some degree of renovation. So to me new or not is not an issue. It is not like a car, where age and mileage affects the wear and tear parts, which is 95% of the entire car. To me, a simple new paint job, polish and varnish of floors and installation of wardrobe/cabinets will make the whole apartment look brand new.

I love project work, so to me, heaven would be an old 15 - 20 year old apartment that I can renovate and customise to my heart's content. That may not be everyone's cuppa tea so a good alternative would be an almost new apartment with minimal reno needed.

But perhaps because this is Singapore, where 'new' is coveted over 'second hand' or 'used', many may not think the same way as I do.

[Petmail]

I wonder what is the attraction of brand new condo? They are grossly overpriced. Why not look at some fairly new ones that have TOP'ed, about one or 2 years old. Owners bought cheap during launch about 4 or 5 years ago so their selling price could be lower too.

Any condo you buy, whether brand new from developer or almost new from reseller, require some degree of renovation. So to me new or not is not an issue. It is not like a car, where age and mileage affects the wear and tear parts, which is 95% of the entire car. To me, a simple new paint job, polish and varnish of floors and installation of wardrobe/cabinets will make the whole apartment look brand new.

I love project work, so to me, heaven would be an old 15 - 20 year old apartment that I can renovate and customise to my heart's content. That may not be everyone's cuppa tea so a good alternative would be an almost new apartment with minimal reno needed.

But perhaps because this is Singapore, where 'new' is coveted over 'second hand' or 'used', many may not think the same way as I do.

in that case, you might be really keen in one of the listings i have on hand in D15 though...


Pet

[taggy]

I wonder what is the attraction of brand new condo? They are grossly overpriced. Why not look at some fairly new ones that have TOP'ed, about one or 2 years old. Owners bought cheap during launch about 4 or 5 years ago so their selling price could be lower too.

Any condo you buy, whether brand new from developer or almost new from reseller, require some degree of renovation. So to me new or not is not an issue. It is not like a car, where age and mileage affects the wear and tear parts, which is 95% of the entire car. To me, a simple new paint job, polish and varnish of floors and installation of wardrobe/cabinets will make the whole apartment look brand new.

I love project work, so to me, heaven would be an old 15 - 20 year old apartment that I can renovate and customise to my heart's content. That may not be everyone's cuppa tea so a good alternative would be an almost new apartment with minimal reno needed.

But perhaps because this is Singapore, where 'new' is coveted over 'second hand' or 'used', many may not think the same way as I do.

eh.... actually i m looking at resale as well.... but i haven't found any that is "800k to 850k, 2 bedroom, near Novena MRT" .
I do not mind tenanted or untenanted.
Untenanted I will move in.
Tenanted even better, i collect rent for 1 to 2 years first.

[CondoSearch]

I personally think all current launches basically a good reflection of the current economic recession, as developer probably realised they can no longer wait to fetch the price with what they used to expect...

so, it's probably a last bid from developers to grap as many customers as possible with the price(overpriced still) before they no longer can get, once majority of developers can no loger hold their launch, and before the price get into a full swing of a decline. Again this is a personal opinion!

I personally would wait for probably 800 or below for places like I-Residence...this perhaps for their design and material used...but didn't like the need of cylinder gas, and a waste of living hall for a balcany...

[dmonddd]

I personally think all current launches basically a good reflection of the current economic recession, as developer probably realised they can no longer wait to fetch the price with what they used to expect...

so, it's probably a last bid from developers to grap as many customers as possible with the price(overpriced still) before they no longer can get, once majority of developers can no loger hold their launch, and before the price get into a full swing of a decline. Again this is a personal opinion!

I personally would wait for probably 800 or below for places like I-Residence...this perhaps for their design and material used...but didn't like the need of cylinder gas, and a waste of living hall for a balcany...

Prices are coming down....as noted from few transactions lodged with URA. But I know some of the sellers - my friends, are ahead of the "dreamy and wishful" pack. They are moving much faster on seling their invested units. Their motto is to sell asap before the market shrinks further. The banks are expected to announce their Dec financial results and is everyone concerned? Hope not. If the market declines further, the "dreamy and wishful" pack would have to rent it out at much lower rent to reduce cashflow impact.

[repanse71]

Prices are coming down....as noted from few transactions lodged with URA. But I know some of the sellers - my friends, are ahead of the "dreamy and wishful" pack. They are moving much faster on seling their invested units. Their motto is to sell asap before the market shrinks further. The banks are expected to announce their Dec financial results and is everyone concerned? Hope not. If the market declines further, the "dreamy and wishful" pack would have to rent it out at much lower rent to reduce cashflow impact.

Unless one could hold for 2 years without much rental support and has golden rice bowl, else I should not enter the market now. Once property price collapse, more economic misery, more job uncertainty. Be careful what you pray for, you might get your "dream" price, but no job as well.

[dmonddd]

Unless one could hold for 2 years without much rental support and has golden rice bowl, else I should not enter the market now. Once property price collapse, more economic misery, more job uncertainty. Be careful what you pray for, you might get your "dream" price, but no job as well.

Some of the sellers who are within my circle of friends, fully agree with your last sentence. Hence they are moving fast to dispose of as they are aware of the abundant TOP units this Q1 2009. But your first comment does not hold for them. Why? because no investor will hold vacant units even though they have the financial capability.

[august]

Unless one could hold for 2 years without much rental support and has golden rice bowl, else I should not enter the market now. Once property price collapse, more economic misery, more job uncertainty. Be careful what you pray for, you might get your "dream" price, but no job as well.

Agree with you and dmonddd. The next 2 months will have clearer indication. The Singapore economy is faring much worse than expected. The upcoming slew of govt measures will signal how bad the situation is. I think it is prudent to wait-and-see. The consensus is this downturn will be unprecedented.