The Raintree (D21, 99 years leasehold, Frasers Centrepoint)

[Unregistered]

There's an interesting article in the current issue of THE ECONOMIST.
The authour looked at the entire property boom all over the world. The analysis revealed that the Asian property boom has just started. Most of the other countries have moved so much in the past few years. Take S'pore as an e.g..... up till 2006, growth in property prices have been very very slow. It is doing catch up. An typical of a boom, we are just at the beginning.... at least 3-5yrs to run. Go buy a copy.... or read at Borders

[Unregistered]

If deffered payment schemes are to be eliminated, It will affect the property price but NOT very much.

Look at expensive projects with progressive payment scheme like Trillium and St thomas suites still sold out within 3 months because buyer are cash ready.

Look at the subsale market this past 2 monts, it is indicating that real buyers are looking to own a unit here in Singapore. I believe most buyer in the subsale market are true investors. Why??

Because when you buy at subsale, you have to pay the profit from the 1st buyer + 3% stamp duty + legal fees + about 20% of the payment that already paid buy the 1st buyer.
Thats a big sum of money that speculators will think twice before purchasing.
Even If speculators buy the subsale, we need not worry as we know that kind of speculators are rich speculators since they are willing to spend so much.

What we have to worry is the so called "flippers" that is only willing to pay 1% booking fees.


If deffered payment is eliminated, The subsale market that still offer deffered payment schemes will benefit as some buyers prefer defered payment.

This coming months I see there will be a lot of subsale transaction because price is much lower than newlaunch and enbloc owners will be hunting for subsale condos or even HDB.
Newlaunch will be slower untill the subsale price is closing to newlaunch price.

[Unregistered]

There's an interesting article in the current issue of THE ECONOMIST.
The authour looked at the entire property boom all over the world. The analysis revealed that the Asian property boom has just started. Most of the other countries have moved so much in the past few years. Take S'pore as an e.g..... up till 2006, growth in property prices have been very very slow. It is doing catch up. An typical of a boom, we are just at the beginning.... at least 3-5yrs to run. Go buy a copy.... or read at Borders

What's there to read? Be some academic or intellectual for what. The bottomline is - BUY. So all you need to read is - Buy Buy Buy. Don't care what price. Just Buy.

[Unregistered]

What's there to read? Be some academic or intellectual for what. The bottomline is - BUY. So all you need to read is - Buy Buy Buy. Don't care what price. Just Buy.

One simple advice. When you buy, you think how much the seller is making. Over how long the period? And you can decide whether it is crazy. If the seller is making 10% over just 3 months, and the market in the area has only moved 5-7% over the 3-month period, you decide if it is crazy to pay for 5-7% more.

[Unregistered]

One simple advice. When you buy, you think how much the seller is making. Over how long the period? And you can decide whether it is crazy. If the seller is making 10% over just 3 months, and the market in the area has only moved 5-7% over the 3-month period, you decide if it is crazy to pay for 5-7% more.

Seller are asking 50% more than in Jan and units are indeed transacted sucessfully at 20-30% more. That is why so many are driven into frenzy because of the huge profits in such a short time. The two important elements for bubble (ie greed and panic) are running at full steam right now. Only hope that many who got burnt in the 90s will be be much more cautios and they should be on the seller side by this time.

[Unregistered]

It is almost confirmed that government going to step in soon and very soon. 1st of the list will be the deferred payment scheme to remove "flippers" from the scene so that property market will resume it's "steady climb" upwards which is what the govenm "expect" it to be. This is to ensure that s'pore continue to attract foreign talents instead of scaring them off....

Correct?

[Unregistered]

It is almost confirmed that government going to step in soon and very soon. 1st of the list will be the deferred payment scheme to remove "flippers" from the scene so that property market will resume it's "steady climb" upwards which is what the govenm "expect" it to be. This is to ensure that s'pore continue to attract foreign talents instead of scaring them off....

Correct?

I don't think steady climb upwards is possible from this point. Most likely, we need to see a correction after the numbers are out to confirm the markets has climbed 50-70% in one year in many areas and measures will be announced immediately to put a brake to all this....

[Unregistered]

If I am the government, I will take measures to slow the growth to 5 to 7% per year (not quarter). This is healthier and sustainable. An exception I will make is the luxury class condo (above 2500psf). For these, the buyers will be less price-sensitive. So the measures will be these:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. No bank loan amount above 80% of property value.

3. Capital gain tax of 25% for sale of property bought within the last 2 years. If foreigner, the tax should be 35%.

4. Additional foreigners stamp duty tax of 3 to 5% for buying property in Singapore. PR excluded.

5. Luxury tax of 10% for those who bought property above $2500 psf. This is a way to give back to society.

[Unregistered]

You are not talking about slowing growth. you are talking about killing the market. Most people and the government would not want that.

[Unregistered]

If I am the government, I will take measures to slow the growth to 5 to 7% per year (not quarter). This is healthier and sustainable. An exception I will make is the luxury class condo (above 2500psf). For these, the buyers will be less price-sensitive. So the measures will be these:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. No bank loan amount above 80% of property value.

3. Capital gain tax of 25% for sale of property bought within the last 2 years. If foreigner, the tax should be 35%.

4. Additional foreigners stamp duty tax of 3 to 5% for buying property in Singapore. PR excluded.

5. Luxury tax of 10% for those who bought property above $2500 psf. This is a way to give back to society.

I think SIngapore would welcome serious investors, regardless whether they are locals or foreigners. I therefore find points 3-4 are bad for Singpaore and capital tax idea is good, bit again it should not impose higher capital gain tax on foregniers. The way to structure capital tax can be refined by using progressive system. 1st yr, 30%; after 10yr, no tax etc

[Unregistered]

I think SIngapore would welcome serious investors, regardless whether they are locals or foreigners. I therefore find points 3-4 are bad for Singpaore and capital tax idea is good, bit again it should not impose higher capital gain tax on foregniers. The way to structure capital tax can be refined by using progressive system. 1st yr, 30%; after 10yr, no tax etc

Good points. So I change them to:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. Capital gain tax of 10 to 15% for sale of property bought within the last 1 year.

3. Luxury tax of 5% for those who bought property above $2500 psf or $5 million per unit. This is a way to give back to society.

[Unregistered]

Good points. So I change them to:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. Capital gain tax of 10 to 15% for sale of property bought within the last 1 year.

3. Luxury tax of 5% for those who bought property above $2500 psf or $5 million per unit. This is a way to give back to society.

Easy 3 measures -

1. Stamp duties to go up to 5% flat.

2. Capital gain tax of 15% for resale within the last 1 year.

3. Agent commission capped at 1% per transaction flat (no negotiation). 0.5% from seller and buyer each.

[Unregistered]

Mad! You guyz want this market to plunge? These draconian steps will affect sentiments... slow down growth... affect feel-good effect.... discourage foreign investing. Think before you speak please.....

Only step I think that should be done at this stage is to disallow deffered payments. Next.... limit use of CPF on property purchases. The latter will only be introduced later when the mass market housing starts to go crazy!

[Unregistered]

Mad! You guyz want this market to plunge? These draconian steps will affect sentiments... slow down growth... affect feel-good effect.... discourage foreign investing. Think before you speak please.....

Only step I think that should be done at this stage is to disallow deffered payments. Next.... limit use of CPF on property purchases. The latter will only be introduced later when the mass market housing starts to go crazy!

Agree - deferred payment must go.

Agree - cpf uses must be limited.

Not agree - "Only step".

2 more steps:

- Limit Flippers - 80% capital gain tax for flipping within 1 year.

- 50% for within 2 years.

- 30% for within 5 years.

- 10% for within 10 years.

Capital gain tax must be paid within 2 weeks from time of option exercise.

Pay-back stamp duties

- stamp duties rate no change.

- if sell property within 2 years, whether got gain or loss, must still pay Pay-back stamp duties of additional 2%.

[Unregistered]

Mad! You guyz want this market to plunge? These draconian steps will affect sentiments... slow down growth... affect feel-good effect.... discourage foreign investing. Think before you speak please.....

Only step I think that should be done at this stage is to disallow deffered payments. Next.... limit use of CPF on property purchases. The latter will only be introduced later when the mass market housing starts to go crazy!

HDB has seen 2.9% rise in the 2nd quarter and mid-range private hse 7.6% in the quarter. so the mass market has already started going crazy and the 'cool-down' measures should be announced soon -- MM Lee said that the government will check property prices and ensures it is competitive in the region. <br> <br/>

Agree with the previous suggestion of measures mainly aim to disencourage short-term speculative activities but do not specifically apply on foreigners:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. No bank loan amount above 80% of property value. it is important to ensure a healthy banking sector.

3. Capital gain tax of 20-25% for sub-sale of property U/C & bought within 1 yr and 10-15% for sub-sale of property bought within the last 2 yrs.

4. tighten the rules for enbloc -- such as enbloc sales of properties less than 15 yrs require 90% owner votes; enbloc of properties less than 10 yrs must get 100% owner's support...

[Unregistered]

HDB has seen 2.9% rise in the 2nd quarter and mid-range private hse 7.6% in the quarter. so the mass market has already started going crazy and the 'cool-down' measures should be announced soon -- MM Lee said that the government will check property prices and ensures it is competitive in the region. <br> <br/>

Agree with the previous suggestion of measures mainly aim to disencourage short-term speculative activities but do not specifically apply on foreigners:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. No bank loan amount above 80% of property value. it is important to ensure a healthy banking sector.

3. Capital gain tax of 20-25% for sub-sale of property U/C & bought within 1 yr and 10-15% for sub-sale of property bought within the last 2 yrs.

4. tighten the rules for enbloc -- such as enbloc sales of properties less than 15 yrs require 90% owner votes; enbloc of properties less than 10 yrs must get 100% owner's support...

In setting rules to discourage speculation, I think the Govt should come up with rules that would be able to differentiate investors from first time home buyer.

For first time property buyer for property that serve as primary residence, the bank loan and CPf limit should not apply. The rules on credit as well as capital gain tax should be progressively tighten based on the number of properties a person own or co-own in Singapore. In addition, refinement of rules may also needed for closing the loop hole that individuals may register the property under company to bypass tax liability

[Unregistered]

HDB has seen 2.9% rise in the 2nd quarter and mid-range private hse 7.6% in the quarter. so the mass market has already started going crazy and the 'cool-down' measures should be announced soon -- MM Lee said that the government will check property prices and ensures it is competitive in the region. <br> <br/>

Agree with the previous suggestion of measures mainly aim to disencourage short-term speculative activities but do not specifically apply on foreigners:

1. Scrap deferred payment schemes and return to progressive payments.

2. No bank loan amount above 80% of property value. it is important to ensure a healthy banking sector.

3. Capital gain tax of 20-25% for sub-sale of property U/C & bought within 1 yr and 10-15% for sub-sale of property bought within the last 2 yrs.

4. tighten the rules for enbloc -- such as enbloc sales of properties less than 15 yrs require 90% owner votes; enbloc of properties less than 10 yrs must get 100% owner's support...

Wah a few forumers playing Finance Minister. Fun. I also join in:

Point 1 - Yes.

Point 2 - Yes.

Point 3 - Yes.

Point 4 - No enbloc for any property below 25 years old. 25 to 30 years need 100% approval. Above 30 years need 90% approval.

New Point - Multiple ownership tax - Singapore is landscarce, so if you own more than 1 property at any one time, you must be taxed. Second property purchase - 3% of purchase price. Third - 5%. Fourth and above - 10%. You must declare not holding it for someone else.

New Point - Fair playing tax - if you are selling a sold-out property within 12 months, you are taxed for the difference between your purchase price and the highest average purchase price. Example - You bought at 1000psf. The sold out condo highest average is 1200psf. You sold at 1800 psf. You are taxed at 200psf for the sale.

[Unregistered]

Wah a few forumers playing Finance Minister. Fun. I also join in:

Point 1 - Yes.

Point 2 - Yes.

Point 3 - Yes.

Point 4 - No enbloc for any property below 25 years old. 25 to 30 years need 100% approval. Above 30 years need 90% approval.

New Point - Multiple ownership tax - Singapore is landscarce, so if you own more than 1 property at any one time, you must be taxed. Second property purchase - 3% of purchase price. Third - 5%. Fourth and above - 10%. You must declare not holding it for someone else.

New Point - Fair playing tax - if you are selling a sold-out property within 12 months, you are taxed for the difference between your purchase price and the highest average purchase price. Example - You bought at 1000psf. The sold out condo highest average is 1200psf. You sold at 1800 psf. You are taxed at 200psf for the sale.

I heard from the agent that I bought my unit at RT from that some top Gov officials had also purchased unit at RT because they likes the nature Reserve environment. It may be possible that some comment made here are from very knowledgeable ...........

[Unregistered]

New Point - Multiple ownership tax - Singapore is landscarce, so if you own more than 1 property at any one time, you must be taxed. Second property purchase - 3% of purchase price. Third - 5%. Fourth and above - 10%. You must declare not holding it for someone else.

Upon TOP, all properties incl. HDBs are then subject to property tax. The tax rate for owner-occupied residential property is 4% per year. The tax rate for all other properties (i.e. 2nd or 3rd property) is 10%.

[Unregistered]

Upon TOP, all properties incl. HDBs are then subject to property tax. The tax rate for owner-occupied residential property is 4% per year. The tax rate for all other properties (i.e. 2nd or 3rd property) is 10%.

This Multiple Ownership Tax is for U/C properties. Not completed ones. Thanks for your info.

[Top GO]

Relax.....

Point 1 will be implemented

Point 2 will be implemented

Rest of it, feedbacks noted and will wait.....see......

[Unregistered]

Mad! You guyz want this market to plunge? These draconian steps will affect sentiments... slow down growth... affect feel-good effect.... discourage foreign investing. Think before you speak please.....

Only step I think that should be done at this stage is to disallow deffered payments. Next.... limit use of CPF on property purchases. The latter will only be introduced later when the mass market housing starts to go crazy!

Indeed. If implemented, then Sands casino and genting will meet Lee and say,

WE DECIDED NOT TO INVEST HERE!!!

Then Lee ask WHY??

They will say " YOU ARE INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR DECISIONS AND POLICIES, WE DONT TRUST YOU" IF YOU ARE INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR PROPERTY MEASURES, THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN TO US NEXT TIME.

Then one of them told Mr Lee,

BECAUSE OF YOUR INCONSISTENCY, I BELIEVE ONE DAY WHEN CASINO HAD BEEN OPEN AND SUDDENLY YOU SAY, OK LETS RAISE THE TAX BY 10%. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO US???

THE TWO BIG INVESTORS THEN SAY "BYE BYE MR LEE"

[Unregistered]

wow.... this RT forum got 38,000++ views!!!! Highest ratings!

Wonder why Garden Vista just down the road so quiet.......

[Unregistered]

Raintree fall monkeys run.

[Unregistered]

Indeed. If implemented, then Sands casino and genting will meet Lee and say,

WE DECIDED NOT TO INVEST HERE!!!

Then Lee ask WHY??

They will say " YOU ARE INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR DECISIONS AND POLICIES, WE DONT TRUST YOU" IF YOU ARE INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR PROPERTY MEASURES, THE SAME THING WILL HAPPEN TO US NEXT TIME.

Then one of them told Mr Lee,

BECAUSE OF YOUR INCONSISTENCY, I BELIEVE ONE DAY WHEN CASINO HAD BEEN OPEN AND SUDDENLY YOU SAY, OK LETS RAISE THE TAX BY 10%. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO US???

THE TWO BIG INVESTORS THEN SAY "BYE BYE MR LEE"

Won't be just two of them. All the banks will move their operations. MNCs.... etc.... and S'pore will fall into recession. Houses will be dirt cheap. All S'poreans will be in negative equity coz their loans are more than the values of their houses. With companies moving out... more job losses. Oh man.... I guess you guyz want this to happen? Pls think twice....

[Unregistered]

Won't be just two of them. All the banks will move their operations. MNCs.... etc.... and S'pore will fall into recession. Houses will be dirt cheap. All S'poreans will be in negative equity coz their loans are more than the values of their houses. With companies moving out... more job losses. Oh man.... I guess you guyz want this to happen? Pls think twice....

More will be in negaive equity in a few years time if nothing is done ASAP
Only one things is sure, when the market collapse, the middle income folks will be hurt. Those who doesn't have the mean to get loans will be spared and certainly the super rich will get much richer after the dust settles because they are the one who will be out in force to pick bargains when the market is at its bottom. Have you been paying attention to the numbers before and after asian financial meltdown, 9/11 and sars, some may be still suffering, but not the super rich for sure

[Unregistered]

wow.... this RT forum got 38,000++ views!!!! Highest ratings!

Wonder why Garden Vista just down the road so quiet.......

If Gardenvista is at Raintree price or only 10%-20% higher, i will surely go for GV due to much better location and convenience. Remember GV has always been much more expensive then RT, and it is now selling at $1100+psf...

however, i guess future mrt will be quite near to Gardenvista (to be close to NAPoly, HDB and shopping malls), this appears to be a strategic important point-- think about Farra Court, being near to MRT and good schools may become attraction for future en-bloc 10 over years down the road, regardless FH or LH.

Like RT as well but not sure if future mrt station will be in walking distance

[Unregistered]

If Gardenvista is at Raintree price or only 10%-20% higher, i will surely go for GV due to much better location and convenience. Remember GV has always been much more expensive then RT, and it is now selling at $1100+psf...

however, i guess future mrt will be quite near to Gardenvista (to be close to NAPoly, HDB and shopping malls), this appears to be a strategic important point-- think about Farra Court, being near to MRT and good schools may become attraction for future en-bloc 10 over years down the road, regardless FH or LH.

Like RT as well but not sure if future mrt station will be in walking distance

GV is a far east project. Far East is always good in pushing up the asking price, but deals can be made just like buying property in the subsale market. That is why most Far East project you will see subsale units are always advertised as "below developer price". LakeShore, another Far east project in HDB heartlands in Jurong are asking near 1000 psf, if I were the residents of GV, I would find it quite insulting that GV only goes for 1100 psf at such "prime" location. Then again, nobody knows for sure the actual price since bargaining is a must for getting units from FE

[ahlahdin]

LakeShore, another Far east project in HDB heartlands in Jurong are asking near 1000 psf

[Unregistered]

If Gardenvista is at Raintree price or only 10%-20% higher, i will surely go for GV due to much better location and convenience. Remember GV has always been much more expensive then RT, and it is now selling at $1100+psf...

however, i guess future mrt will be quite near to Gardenvista (to be close to NAPoly, HDB and shopping malls), this appears to be a strategic important point-- think about Farra Court, being near to MRT and good schools may become attraction for future en-bloc 10 over years down the road, regardless FH or LH.

Like RT as well but not sure if future mrt station will be in walking distance

Having MRT is not a sure thing for boosting property value, esp the high end properties. MRT station is generally built near the masses, else the MRT will lose money. If GOVT put a MRT station right next to your condo, you should expect the area will be flooded with additional condos plus HDBs soon. I guess you don't mind if you are in one of those mass condo project. Perhaps the definition of mass condo project will be anything less than 1500 psf soon.