Sky@eleven (D11, Freehold, Singapore Press Holdings)

[bargain hunter]

i have a question:

when jlrx keeps comparing current prices with the 60s and 70s, those were days when singapore was nothing or just starting as an emerging economy. naturally when we compare now with 50 years ago, the % return is superb, say 50 to 80 times, since singapore has come a long way in the past 50 years. However, now that singapore is developed, branded and already on the world's radar, can the same returns be made over the next 50 years to 2060 or it is more realistic to target much lower returns?

[teddybear]

Don't need 50x by 2060 lah. 10x by 2060 or average of 20% per year I am already very very happy (better than putting in the bank where the interest is not even sufficient to deflate the real inflation)!
Average 20% per year over 50 years - Where to find such good investment?
Stocks? (Company may disappear. Stocks' Index never return so much as well despite their consistent pruning to make their data look nice).
Bonds? (issuers may bankcrupt).
Banks deposits? (terrible. Not even enough to offset inflation. Banks can also go bankcrupt).
Gold? (Lagi worse, won't pay any dividend to us and we have to pay for their storage (<=> we pay interests to issuers!)).

i have a question:

when jlrx keeps comparing current prices with the 60s and 70s, those were days when singapore was nothing or just starting as an emerging economy. naturally when we compare now with 50 years ago, the % return is superb, say 50 to 80 times, since singapore has come a long way in the past 50 years. However, now that singapore is developed, branded and already on the world's radar, can the same returns be made over the next 50 years to 2060 or it is more realistic to target much lower returns?

[bargain hunter]

err...20% per year compounded is more than 9100 times by 2060 liao...only need prices to go up 4.7% per annum to hit 10 times in 50 years. that's more realistic i feel.

Don't need 50x by 2060 lah. 10x by 2060 or average of 20% per year I am already very very happy (better than putting in the bank where the interest is not even sufficient to deflate the real inflation)!
Average 20% per year over 50 years - Where to find such good investment?
Stocks? (Company may disappear. Stocks' Index never return so much as well despite their consistent pruning to make their data look nice).
Bonds? (issuers may bankcrupt).
Banks deposits? (terrible. Not even enough to offset inflation. Banks can also go bankcrupt).
Gold? (Lagi worse, won't pay any dividend to us and we have to pay for their storage (<=> we pay interests to issuers!)).

[teddybear]

I say average 20% per year, not 20% per year compounded. Average 20% per year over 50 years is equivalent to 4.7% per year compounded? Mmm... Seems like my target is on the too low side.
Think 8% per year compounded should be achievable over 50 years. (meaning 30x over 50 years or 60% average over 50 years or?)

err...20% per year compounded is more than 9100 times by 2060 liao...only need prices to go up 4.7% per annum to hit 10 times in 50 years. that's more realistic i feel.

[bargain hunter]

8% compounded would give u 47 times.

so back to square one mah, that is almost 50 times in 50 years.

which goes back to my first question, can we still sustain 50 times in 50 years now that we are more of a developed nation than an emerging one?

I say average 20% per year, not 20% per year compounded. Average 20% per year over 50 years is equivalent to 4.7% per year compounded? Mmm... Seems like my target is on the too low side.
Think 8% per year compounded should be achievable over 50 years. (meaning 30x over 50 years or 60% average over 50 years or?)

[cheerful]

between the 2 ... i would take One North ..

rochestor looks like an office building and SO SO close to that noisy road .. just like Trillium / Tribeca opposite great world city ... super dusty and noisy

Yeah, will take OneNorth anytime over Roc ... OneN shld have the benefit of being served by two mrt lines ... but hey, this is sky@11 thread

[proud owner]

Yeah, will take OneNorth anytime over Roc ... OneN shld have the benefit of being served by two mrt lines ... but hey, this is sky@11 thread

no matter how good Sky@11 is ... common people...it really is just a well buiilt condo next to Toa payoh ... location wise cannot compare with the true D11 props

[teddybear]

Wah, you poke a needle and some people's blood coming out - those people are hoping (or should I say dreaming?) that their suburb (D5?) properties are priced on par with those in core Orchard (not just any D9/D10/D11 properties) even though that distance probably takes >30mins to travel during normal hours and may take up to >1 hour during peak hours.

At least Sky@11 is still close to other core D11 properties (despite its closer proximity to Toa Payoh and its HDB estate and hence less desirability as not so exclusive).

no matter how good Sky@11 is ... common people...it really is just a well buiilt condo next to Toa payoh ... location wise cannot compare with the true D11 props

[proud owner]

Wah, you poke a needle and some people's blood coming out - those people are hoping (or should I say dreaming?) that their suburb (D5?) properties are priced on par with those in core Orchard (not just any D9/D10/D11 properties) even though that distance probably takes >30mins to travel during normal hours and may take up to >1 hour during peak hours.

At least Sky@11 is still close to other core D11 properties (despite its closer proximity to Toa Payoh and its HDB estate and hence less desirability as not so exclusive).

opps sorry hor ...

IF ..in the next few years .. no further development in that area .. Sky@11 will be like that condo at Lornie , facing Macritchie, next to hospital ... doing a Eric Carmen ... ALL BY MYSELF ... good view .. but thats about it .. the only amenities is the hospital

so people ..better pray for more amenities around Sky ...

[bargain hunter]

thomson 800...they will become each other's closest neighbours.

opps sorry hor ...

IF ..in the next few years .. no further development in that area .. Sky@11 will be like that condo at Lornie , facing Macritchie, next to hospital ... doing a Eric Carmen ... ALL BY MYSELF ... good view .. but thats about it .. the only amenities is the hospital

so people ..better pray for more amenities around Sky ...

[august]

PRC buyers are smart if not smarter. They are also waiting for correction and will come in then.

[Localite]

i have a question:

when jlrx keeps comparing current prices with the 60s and 70s, those were days when singapore was nothing or just starting as an emerging economy. naturally when we compare now with 50 years ago, the % return is superb, say 50 to 80 times, since singapore has come a long way in the past 50 years. However, now that singapore is developed, branded and already on the world's radar, can the same returns be made over the next 50 years to 2060 or it is more realistic to target much lower returns?

Good point. Fully agree. History cannot predict the future so easily.

I challenge jlrx to comment on the US property market. Can you say that the propertiism rule does not apply there?

We cannot oversimplify and say that property prices can only go up.

We cannot assume economy will always only expand and that wealth creation is always positive.

There is something called a fair value and if sentiment and hype and easy credit pushes the price beyond that, like what happened in the US, then prices can and will fall.

Now back to Singapore I don't think we are ever in that kind of fake euphoria like the US given the prudent credit policies here. And just like a well managed company, the value of Singapore continues to grow and the propertiism theory continues to be proven correct. But don't take all of this for granted.

[devilplate]

chilllllllllllll

no nid argue the future lah

let say 10X in 50yrs time...i happy oredi...but den i am too old or oredi gone

ok I just wish 3X within 20yrs time, isit possible?
den i am able to retire in a landed with servants in bikinis

Money Money COME!!!

[devilplate]

we nid compounded int of 5.7% to hit 3X and 3.6% to hit 2X in 20yrs!

2X is very very likely!! hmmm, but by den one plate of chicken rice cud be $20

[proud owner]

we nid compounded int of 5.7% to hit 3X and 3.6% to hit 2X in 20yrs!

2X is very very likely!! hmmm, but by den one plate of chicken rice cud be $20

orchard road super flooded ..after the rain

[devilplate]

orchard road super flooded ..after the rain

wat do u mean ?

[bargain hunter]

i feel its realistic, as earlier i was saying 4.7% p.a., right in the middle of your range, 10 times in 50 years, 2 1/2 times in 20 years, seems alright.

we nid compounded int of 5.7% to hit 3X and 3.6% to hit 2X in 20yrs!

2X is very very likely!! hmmm, but by den one plate of chicken rice cud be $20

[jlrx]

i have a question:

when jlrx keeps comparing current prices with the 60s and 70s, those were days when singapore was nothing or just starting as an emerging economy. naturally when we compare now with 50 years ago, the % return is superb, say 50 to 80 times, since singapore has come a long way in the past 50 years. However, now that singapore is developed, branded and already on the world's radar, can the same returns be made over the next 50 years to 2060 or it is more realistic to target much lower returns?

8% compounded would give u 47 times.

so back to square one mah, that is almost 50 times in 50 years.

which goes back to my first question, can we still sustain 50 times in 50 years now that we are more of a developed nation than an emerging one?

Of course we can.

We are only coming to 45 years old.

How much did New York properties cost when the USA was only 45 years old?

Long way to go man!

Never underestimate the power of PROPERTISM.

PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.

[proud owner]

wat do u mean ?

either the rain was super heavy this morning

or the drainage at orchard is getting crappier ...

the junction at scotts and orchard, ION, Marriots , Borders ... all flooded ...

bet a few more ferrari will be scrapped

[devilplate]

either the rain was super heavy this morning

or the drainage at orchard is getting crappier ...

the junction at scotts and orchard, ION, Marriots , Borders ... all flooded ...

bet a few more ferrari will be scrapped

immediate discount of 1kpsf for orchard condos?

[Localite]

Of course we can.

We are only coming to 45 years old.

How much did New York properties cost when the USA was only 45 years old?

Long way to go man!

Never underestimate the power of PROPERTISM.

PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.

I challenge jlrx to comment on the US property market. Can you say that the propertiism rule does not apply there?

We cannot oversimplify and say that property prices can only go up.

We cannot assume economy will always only expand and that wealth creation is always positive.

There is something called a fair value and if sentiment and hype and easy credit pushes the price beyond that, like what happened in the US, then prices can and will fall.

Now back to Singapore I don't think we are ever in that kind of fake euphoria like the US given the prudent credit policies here. And just like a well managed company, the value of Singapore continues to grow and the propertiism theory continues to be proven correct. But don't take all of this for granted.

[Localite]

Of course we can.

We are only coming to 45 years old.

How much did New York properties cost when the USA was only 45 years old?

Long way to go man!

Never underestimate the power of PROPERTISM.

PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.

If property prices go up in a realistic supply / demand fashion then propertiism may be valid. Unfortunately there is hype and euphoria and easy credit that often drives the market. In such a market Propertiism is not valid.

I hereby redefine propertiism as follows:

The intrinsic value of property in a well managed country will always go up.

[Localite]

If property prices should up at the rate of 4% forever but they end up going up at 7% then propertiism is null and void because it becomes a speculative game.

What happened in the current USA? ppty market crashed.

What happended in Japan?

[urban]

If property prices should up at the rate of 4% forever but they end up going up at 7% then propertiism is null and void because it becomes a speculative game.

What happened in the current USA? ppty market crashed.

What happended in Japan?

Actually the Japan property market has not crashed despite decade long stagnation. They have trendmendous holding power.

[bargain hunter]

i think it did crash in the early 90s after their bubble.

Actually the Japan property market has not crashed despite decade long stagnation. They have trendmendous holding power.

[scsc]

Actually the Japan property market has not crashed despite decade long stagnation. They have trendmendous holding power.

Funded by printing bananas

[devilplate]

lets face the brutal reality...those who oredi own a HDB and perhaps some investment ppty...shd be very very happy liao...

for the younger generations and those miss the boat followers...reality is simply too harsh for them...still hiam direct HDB flats in sengkang too far blah blah...wait all become DBSS den can really cry

$$$ smaller, ppty and my chicken rice gets inflated everyday!

very soon, many locals goto rent a hse oredi

[jlrx]

I challenge jlrx to comment on the US property market. Can you say that the propertiism rule does not apply there?

We cannot oversimplify and say that property prices can only go up.

We cannot assume economy will always only expand and that wealth creation is always positive.

There is something called a fair value and if sentiment and hype and easy credit pushes the price beyond that, like what happened in the US, then prices can and will fall.

Now back to Singapore I don't think we are ever in that kind of fake euphoria like the US given the prudent credit policies here. And just like a well managed company, the value of Singapore continues to grow and the propertiism theory continues to be proven correct. But don't take all of this for granted.

Now I understand why all major religions have a textbook.

So that the preachers can refer to it and don't have to keep repeating the same things again and again.

http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...postcount=1622

[Localite]

Now I understand why all major religions have a textbook.

So that the preachers can refer to it and don't have to keep repeating the same things again and again.

http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...postcount=1622

Please try this website. Absolute bullshit without any sense:

http://shorl.com/borijyladramo

Propertiism is relative and not absolute.

[devilplate]

propertism preaching is gd in a way as it discourage ppty speculation

buy and sell...later ended up with a bigger loan and overleverage if one is not careful and prudent when overwhelmed by greed

but hor, agts will eat grass